Latest / Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan / Meta's AI Pivot, Molotov Cocktails & The New World Order

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Meta's AI Pivot, Molotov Cocktails & The New World Order · Beat The Odds with Dre, Rodney, & Brylan

• Dre: Yo guys, what's up? Welcome back to another episode of beat the odds. How y'all feeling today? Rodney: Feeling good, feeling good. How y'all feeling? Dre: Feeling good man. It's been a busy Monday man Mondays is always chaotic for me I was telling Brian that before we started recording so I dread Mondays I look forward to Tuesdays though, so I'm looking forward to tomorrow. It's a lot less a lot less chaotic Brylan: Can't complain. Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. Do y'all have a routine like before like on Sunday in preparation for the week, do y'all have any routine or do you just like dread it? Just like no routine, you just kind of, it's all in back of your mind all Sunday. Dre: Rylan got a routine, Rylan. You was telling me you do some prep on Sunday. Brylan: Yeah, so typically Sundays, bro, like I've it up to where like, so have this Chrome extension that I built, And essentially, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's all connected to the same API. So I'm able to use it on like my phone too. But it's how I can capture like all my brain dumps. So like all my tasks, all my thoughts, anything that I'm reading, basically it helps me on top of like my finances. So like I track my spending or whatever. Rodney: No shit. Brylan: And so that way when Sunday comes around, basically I've created a few like Claude skills where one I'll do like a spending review just to kind of like plan like ahead for the current week. And then the other thing too is like, go take my backlog of like tasks that are still kind of like open and then it will help me like prioritize it or like lockdown like due dates. If I haven't like, you know, added one things of that nature. So that's typically like what Sunday looks like for me is just like making sure, you know, rather than, you know, it's everything in the right place or it, or it's everything like top of mind. I think it more so helps me like sequence it will get done. right. And so I know like, I was telling Dre, like my Mondays for me are typically not as stressful, right? Like just because honestly, it's an extension of like Sunday where I can really like plan everything out because I know Tuesday through Thursday. is basically gonna be like meetings all day back to back, right? And so I really try to protect that Monday and I would even say like Friday, bro, for like knocking out that deep work that maybe like middle of the week I know I'm not gonna be able to get to. Dre: Yeah, see, I'm a lot less structured than that. I don't know what it is. I think the thing that stresses me out is, when I don't want say stresses me out, because I'm not really stressed out from it, but I think the thing that is taxing is just context switching. Having to like switch a bunch of context, but like one minute I'm like, I might be going over finance stuff and next minute I'm talking about some nuanced project and this shit is going all wrong and they need direction on how to like get out of this situation. Then the next minute... I'm talking about some sales thing. You know what I'm saying? The next minute I might be looking at another deal. So it's like my brain having to like, I feel like coat start in all these different compartments. I feel like maybe I need to structure my days to be a little bit more focused. I heard Elon does that. don't don't mean, Elon operates at a different level, but having dedicated days where like, I'm only going to focus on these specific things these days. Brylan: Yeah. curious because you are top of the 1 % of the 1 % when it comes to AI usage. And so this was an epiphany I recently had, but when you're using the thinking models or even some of these like co-work or like perplexity, for example, it will first create a to-do list and then it will work through each task one by one. Rodney: I'm Dre: Thank Brylan: Have y'all ever clicked into like the thinking, like to see he's doing? Like, have y'all done that recently? Rodney: I have, I have, but have, but I don't do it as much anymore. I have in the past, ⁓ Dre: Yeah, same. Yeah, I don't do it. I don't do it much. Brylan: I ⁓ so it's less about what it's, I think the contents of it, but I think the epiphany for me was, going back to your, you know, what you were saying about context switching, there's a specific task, yeah, that like, I know I have to do monthly. It's more of like a planning type of thing, but it requires me to basically understand marketing, sales, all these components, right? And so when I gave it to the model, and even gave it access to like, you know, the websites with credentials and all of that, was fascinating just to take a step back and see like, this model is making all these micro decisions to complete this tasks where like the task by itself, pretty sure to any human be like, ⁓ that's, that's easy. ⁓ But I think going to what I was saying is like, when you double click into his thinking, And you see all the like small micro decisions that it had to make just to be able to like click on a button. I don't think that was like my first time where I was like, wow, those are actually decisions that us as humans we're making subconsciously. Right. And yeah, yeah, yeah. And it wasn't until I just kind of took a step back. Cause it's like, I feel like, you know, yeah, everybody's been talking about this whole idea of like AI taking jobs, but nobody has been talking about like. Rodney: ⁓ yeah, that's, yeah, that's, yeah. Dre: Yeah. Brylan: AI added more work to your plate. know what I mean? Like, and feel like that's kind of been my reality is just like, just taking on more work to your plate. But it's when you do that. Dre: Do you spend your whole day talking to I mean, I know you do a lot of in-person or in-person stuff, human connection, outside of that. In of your digital work, would you say most of your time is spent in a chat interface? Brylan: Yeah Yeah, bro. Hell yeah, hell yeah, if I'm gonna be honest with you. If I'm gonna be honest with you. So yeah, it wasn't until I literally just had that epiphany of damn, there's all these micro-decisions that this AI is making. Theoretically, that used to be me until I gave it that task. And it made sense why I would feel mentally fatigued or just the whole cognitive overload. So something just to kind of, maybe to check out, but. Dre: Okay, yeah. Mm-hmm. Brylan: Yeah, I think we underestimate all the small subconscious decisions that go into a task that, you know, we just, you know, do on the regular. Rodney: Yeah, think the first time I was introduced to that was DeepSeat. When the DeepSeat models came out, like, what that? 12 ago? mean, AI so quickly. That was the time when I was really looking at the thinking, and ⁓ I remember feeling blown away by that. And even you bringing up now, it definitely started having my brain. ⁓ Dre: for sure. Yeah. Rodney: think about when AI starts shooting at that faster speed, like you said, we might think of a task and we might break it down into these chunks, but below that, there's a million smaller decisions that are required to do that larger task. And yeah, that's an interesting thought. So once AI gets faster, it's gonna be a bit weird. It actually will be 10, actually, I can see where else it's not gonna get dangerous. Because speed of decision making. Dre: Will it will it make us lazy will it make us lazy you think? Rodney: I think it's, yeah, for sure. Dre: Because think about that, like what we're really saying here, which I mean, I get it, right? Like it makes a lot of sense. Like we're essentially offloading a lot of thinking, right? Right. So then that, so then the question is then what do we feel that space with? Right. Do we think about other shit? Do we stop thinking at all? You know, like, do we, do we stop thinking about at some point we stopped thinking about certain things. So like, happens, what happens to our thinking? Does that make us more lazy over time? Does that. Rodney: Yes, yeah. Dre: Is that a degrading of certain fields? Rodney: think my thought, and I can't prove it, is that people's true characters will come out. either you're going to self-actualize ⁓ and focus on health and wellness and you'll focus on your relationships, et cetera, or you're just going to slide down into just living off impulse, living however you want. not productive, et cetera. I think it will be like extreme. I do think, I think even, even with AI, this is crazy. This is funny. Cause this is not for anybody. Listen, this is not what was on our list of things to talk about, but it's something I have thought about a lot, which is like, we are in this comfort culture, really culture where you can press a button and call a taxi. You can press a button and have somebody drop food off. Actually, you don't have to look at the person. They can drop it off at your door. right. We have instant education at your fingertips. We have instant entertainment. You can watch any channel. You have all these choices, right? And that has changed a lot. For example, we know that when we go to a movie theater, I mean, we saw movie theaters were struggling. Go to a movie theater, there's less people in the movie theaters. Dre: Yeah, that's crazy. Rodney: And part of the reason is convenience. Yeah, okay. Now we have, now of us have these flat screen TVs because the price has gone down so much. Not everybody, but, but flat screen is like 200 now. So most people, and now people would rather just stay inside and, and, so this comfort and you can watch whatever you want. You can get up, to the bathroom. You could do this. You can do that. And it's interesting. And so, and Just follow that trend across all these different things. Basically, unless you try to be more and deliberate, you're going to be more lazy. How else? even you got dating apps where you can from your bedroom, you can sit back and swipe left or right and then, you find somebody to meet up with and it might be connection. not be a connection. It's just, We live in an extremely convenient culture and now intelligence is at next level. So think it's gonna get really intriguing. So it's either these tools use or we use tools. ⁓ I suspect there'll be a small group that use the tools and everybody else is gonna be, they're gonna be cooked, I ain't gonna lie. They're gonna be bro. That's how I see it playing out. Dre: No. Hmm. Well, I guess speaking of tools, should we go into metadata? Because they just released a new AI tool to the market. So I don't know much about it. I haven't used it. think we all admitted we haven't used it. So we might have to do another in-depth review after we actually tried our product and then we can actually compare it. But nevertheless, there's Super Intelligent Lab, which is ran by Alex. I don't know his last name. Is it Wayne? I don't want to mispronounce. OK, yeah, Alex Wayne. Brylan: Yeah. Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: Yeah, way. Dre: The founder of scale AI. This is the first consumer product release called I think it's called mew spark if I'm not mistaken ⁓ it's basically like Just to easily compare it like chat GPT. like claw. It's a chat bot. They can do a bunch of tasks I think obviously connects to your social network. So I'm pretty sure there's like some social component to it but ⁓ does real here is like Brylan: Mm-hmm. Dre: I think when they released this product, seemed like the market and not say market as in Wall Street, analysts, investors are taken to it pretty well because their stock moved like five or 6%, which obviously adds billions of dollars the bottom line to a product that they aren't even monetizing right now. There's no API available. I don't believe. I think it's just a pure consumer app at this point. Brylan: Yeah. Yeah. Now you're, you're, you're spot on. think, a few things, other things to kind of like really point out here is this a, significant shift from Metis previous position within AI If many recall, Meta decided to take the position of the side of the spectrum and be completely open source when they were building their llama. models. And I you know, that that did have quite, quite a bit of success for them, right? I don't think it going back to, know, what we've been saying with Anthropic and OpenAI that, you know, they're playing different games, I would say meta has been playing a different game. But I think they're what we're where that failed was they had the same Although they were playing open source, they had the same expectations that it would do the same type of numbers in terms of adoption that like a quad or like a chat GPT did. And I think we just haven't seen that. think in their earnings reports, they do kind of, you know, make it a little bit fuzzy because they'll report that billions of users have used like their AI and the reality is like. When most of us think of people using AI, they're thinking about like them going and using a chat bot versus the reality is like, they're either using the AI and like their ad products or like maybe they use it in Instagram for like the search feature or something of that nature. And so I think that's just like very interesting to see kind of like that pivot because the reality is like the whole team that was behind Llama basically got replaced. Right. And now you're seeing this, this, this new model come out. It's going to be, you closed source, they are planning to also roll out an API, which is going to be interesting, especially given, you know, they've been building out their whole compute layer and all these data centers. I think honestly, this is really positioning Meta to be in a strong position by the end of the year. Like if you really think about it, right? Like if this model really is, it doesn't have to be, that's the thing about the frontier. It just has to be near. it doesn't have to be like surpass it, right? For it to really have like an impact in my opinion. And I think the other thing too is like Metta kind of got ahead of this whole open claw kind of like, you know, personal agent, know, with their acquisition with like Manus. And then also they got what these other companies don't which is cashflow bro. Like they're just printing cash, right? We can kind of get into that as well. But I think Metta is going to surprise ⁓ quite a few people, especially the market probably like towards the end of the year. But what are your thoughts Rod? Rodney: I think that what they're doing with image recognition is interesting. I took a look at their homepage they really have these videos of like cars and butterflies and these different scenarios. And can see the vision where they're going, where you'll be able to identify objects. ⁓ and things people through what you see. And think this gives people a preview into the future of where we these glasses that we're wearing. And they're not just the glasses with the camera, although those have been a big hit for Metta, which have come with their own concerns as well. privacy concerns, people are doing weird things with them. People are doing a lot of cool things with them. But of course, always people doing weird stuff with them, bringing them into private recording strange Nonetheless, this world where you're gonna have these glasses, and for anyone who has not tried it yet, try the Vision Pros. Those give you another look. So I think this meta AI, what... it seems to bringing is just like this different angle where yeah, there is a chat bot. But when I look at the page, there's a lot of other things that they're putting out there to test people's interest. But you did mention a very important which is how they're printing cash. And today, 13th, they're projected to surpass Google in ad revenue for the first time in history. This is a big deal because, I mean, Google makes $239 billion a year of ad revenue, an astronomical number. But Meta is projected to make $243 billion, with a lot of that coming from the explosion in reels, which what might be four to six years old, maybe less than that. Rails is a relatively new product. of course WhatsApp. so is still, despite like these privacy concerns, despite the that maybe they're not number one in although their app did hit number one when it came out, they are still making tons of money. So they do have an opportunity to Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: I mean, take that cash and I guess maybe pour it back into the ad business. I have a feeling that they don't need to. There's probably a huge margin on that. So those my thoughts. Dre: Do you think the world needs another consumer AI chatbot? I get that they're doing something different with the image capabilities. But just from a perception standpoint, how consumers may view it. Maybe they will view it differently, or they won't. Rodney: I don't think they need another chat interface, no. ⁓ the image stuff because I think it's gonna become useful in the future as meta RayBan product continues to iterate. I don't think it's really that useful or that interesting for whatever they just on the App Store. I don't think anybody needs or cares another chat product. there's more than enough. I'm sure that they can slip it in into the mix. I think about the image stuff, I'm immediately saying, ⁓ this technology is going to be relevant the meta displays ⁓ ones where they have ⁓ visual the glasses. When those improve, then I can see that being useful technology. But the chat bot, no. Dre: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Brylan: Yeah. Yeah, I think I don't feel like there probably is even mental space for another chat bot amongst consumers, right? Like they may download your app for the day, but like by tomorrow, they're already back on chat or cloud. And so, I do think what is interesting is your point around images. Because I it really directly ties back to Dre: Right. Rodney: Yeah. Brylan: one, their core audience you know, one but two, these creators and kind of like influencers, you know, in terms of the creator economy that they've created. And so I was just pulling up because I own, you the Meta Ray Bands, but I haven't really looked much into like the privacy policy. But what was interesting there ⁓ is, yeah, I didn't this, like, yeah, any image you capture technically isn't used for training data, but the you turn on Meta's AI to either analyze an existing image or the world around you, that footage and those images are then to be used for training data. And so think ⁓ that's very because that's, once again, they're building a crazy ass data set of just images to continue to make that better. But I think the other thing too if you think about IG, right? Rodney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brylan: So, thought this was interesting where, you know, IG has 2 million, 2 billion, you know, monthly active users of those, of those, know, because they have personal accounts and business accounts. When it comes to personal accounts, about 60 % are private. So 40 % are public. Anything that is public kit is used automatically for training unless you opt out. And then, what they're saying is 95 % of business and creator accounts are public. And so basically all that content is then being used for training. And so if you think about this in terms of like, okay, I'm training a model. I can train it on the whole internet or whatever meta. very similar to what you saw for Claude where Claude leant very heavily into code. I think Rodney calls out a very interesting point that met a strategic advantage or their difference in model is probably going to be leaning towards image. And the that they. ⁓ automatically are getting high quality images. Because if you think about the quality of an image that like a business is putting out or one of these influencers is putting out, like it's totally different than what you'd probably see on like a French Stead account. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, I mean, a really good call out right here. And honestly, it might've just made me a little bit more bullish on it. Rodney: Yeah, think I do think Zuck is ultimately going to stay in the game. I think he's going to do well. And I have been ⁓ of, it's been sad to see a lot of the privacy concerns and then also some of the things with the brand, but we'll see what happens. It seem that people's, ⁓ it even seem the average consumer trust meta, which is I think an interesting thing that's on. ⁓ But Dre: Okay. Rodney: There's else that has happened in the heat of all of this AI stuff. ⁓ on April 10th, somebody rolled past Sam Altman's house, the of OpenAI, creator of ChatGBT, and threw Molotov at the gate and it caught on fire. There was no injuries, no one got hurt. But the suspect was from Texas. was 20 years old. His name is Daniel. he had a list of other tech execs that he wanted to target. But then also he just opposed AI completely. And it doesn't stop there. Two days later, there was somebody else that rolled past Sam's house and fired off gunshots. And took to ex. to post this article that he wrote on his blog in which he shared a photo of family, which his husband and his son, who's a toddler. His son might be less than two years old. And it a lot in there, but ultimately, it that his was to communicate that it's always been his... ambition to work on AI and to a difference at the same time. There's a lot that ⁓ more complicated at, as goes on that you can't, I guess, And he's caught in the middle of all these very complex decisions. And at the he had this call to action to hopefully tone down some of the narrative in AI and without naming any names or of course anything like that. But I think he's seeing escalation and I think this says something about how people feel. I think this does say, this does, this also says something about potentially people who are in tech and what they need to think about. I mean, we just had Luigi who's still in federal, I believe he's in federal prison right now. who killed health executive point blank. And that case, it was his health. I believe it was connected to his back thing. But this sentiment around people who are wealthy, this sentiment around people who built technology, it could turning into ⁓ something significant. mean, what do you guys think? Dre: think Sam need to move right? He needs to move we need to move to an area where his house can be Is accessible from the street I saw a photo of his house on the news or video of his house on the news Nice house, by the way, but I'm like, well, it's too accessible like you're too public you know, like they have to just accept that unfortunately Rodney: Bye. Dre: Because of some of the things you mentioned, the wealth gap, because of how I'm going call it, the elite class is looked at. mean, they have to have, mean, that's, Hey, that's the cost to be in there. So I don't want to hear the, you know, tone down the rhetoric where, they, they're coming out with articles posting ages, raise a hundred and something billion dollars. I mean, and people, and then people are getting their jobs cut. You got TSA workers who were laid off in the midst of that and not receiving a pay cut at all. Rodney: Hahaha. Dre: And you know you out here announcing a hundred plus billion dollar round of funding like Bro, I admit but then you sent tone down the rhetoric like bro. No, like you're you're amplifying what you're amplifying everything that this class of people stand for the people everyday people fucking hate So there this is not about just ai and taking jobs This is beyond that and unfortunately sam has entered that class of people. So my advice to him is to move Rodney: Right. Yeah. Dre: because nobody's listening to your tone down the rhetoric and to this shit changes. think people are going to be more angry at people like Sam, more like that healthcare executive that got killed. Unfortunately. I mean, Hey, I mean, that's just the cost of being in that position. So I would recommend you move, get some good security because I mean, I don't see this going anywhere. especially not off a blog post telling people to tone it down. Rodney: Yeah, nothing's to come from that. Because people that he wants to really tone down, ain't reading ⁓ They ⁓ reading In fact, they take that the wrong way, but go ahead, Brian. Dre: Nah. Nah. Nah. Brylan: Yeah. Nah. Yeah, no, think the other thing I would say is if we zoom out, right, think you've really had different periods of time probably over like the last two decades that have just like further exacerbated the gap between like, I would say like the wealthy elite class and like the ordinary everyday American, right? Like, and I think, you know, the term that a lot of economists are using right now, it's like this idea of like a K shaped economy. like, the, ⁓ actually a topic I was diving into recently, but what is very interesting is over the last two decades, if you think about like how markets have like, you know, been impacted, there was the dot com boom, right? where, you know, obviously there was, there was somewhat of a crash there were some layoffs. And then you obviously had the global financial crisis. Then you also had like the zero interest rate period. Then you had COVID, right? And during each of those times, ⁓ you saw were like either layoffs or you saw, you know, stocks, you know, decrease value, et cetera. And the reason why this is important is I think, you know, what I ended up like just pulling out of it was the difference in recovery. So for people that own assets, stocks, of that nature, what was very interesting was like on average, it was, it took anywhere between like two to three years for like the market to recover to like its, you know, levels. And, know, eventually started accelerating again. First for people who didn't, the reality was they were just making their wages and wages. Like, was this Harvard study that came out, but like, Wages, it took 14, about 14 years for wages just to, you know, recover and start to grow after the global financial crisis. So that puts you around like COVID, right? so the reason why I bring this context up is because like, I think, you know, we've been talking about like the Iran war and like about it being a slippery slope in terms of potentially spiraling into a global financial, you know, crisis as well. I think this gap. is just going to continue to grow because that's just kind of the forces we're seeing at play. But I think when it comes to AI, AI is just going to accelerate that, right? just because, you I think you now have companies that have a profitable narrative. ⁓ wouldn't even say profitable narrative. It's more so a narrative that public markets will eat up is, you know, like, hey, we're doing these layoffs because, you know, AI. But then two, ⁓ Yeah, just thinking about like if AI really is going to be replacing, you know, jobs or tasks or whatever and making, you know, unemployment potentially something people have to deal with even longer. Rodney: Right. Right. Brylan: Yeah, like, and so I think the other thing too is like, and I've had a conversation with some of my other friends about this is like, personally think some people are so freaking high on that freaking K that they just not in touch with the reality of the everyday American right now. ⁓ And not saying that that's Sam Waltman, it could be, or any of these other folks that are in AI, but I do think we're in a very sensitive time period because I mean, Dre: Hmm. Brylan: Dude, I can't get on freaking TikTok or YouTube without just coming across somebody's, know, some mass layoff story or just dealing with it. It's crazy. Rodney: Yeah, so there is this trend that I've seen come up and lately I've been bingeing a lot. I actually, don't go on because I just think it's crack. ⁓ I just, can't do that. I can't go on there. ⁓ No, no, it's crack. No, cocaine, cocaine. Let's see what will be the equivalent of cocaine. If it comes to me with the cocaine, but. Dre: you Brylan: Hold on, not cocaine? It's crap? Dre: system. Rodney: But it's definitely crack is that it's it might be worse than crack and and and the reason why I say is worse than crack is crack you can see somebody to crack it you could be like look this is you know, could see you could see but I've been seeing a lot of these YouTube videos where they do these reaction series and the reaction series are not anything new on YouTube But they've at least for me they've been increasing Dre: Yeah. Rodney: where they're taking what people are saying on TikTok and like, and people are saying crazy, like, I'll just, I'll just keep it on, I'll just keep it on the AI and the job loss, et cetera. But the things that people are going through and what they're sharing and gravity of all this stuff. And yeah, I think unfortunately just to put it lightly, excuse me, Sam got his bubble pops. Nobody actually cares about his family. Unfortunately for Sam, he may not know that, but. Nobody cares about his family. It's up to him to do what he can to protect his family at all costs. And that's his responsibility. Nobody cares. I understood he shared the photo and maybe it's like kind of a way to maybe like it's a sympathy. But think that there is an arrogance that comes from Silicon Valley. Even for example, you have there people who are not like way more to slide in and they're moving so fast and they're trying to slide it. They don't want anybody stopping them. But there's a a large group or sentiment of people saying, hey, look, if these way modes come out here, two million workers will be out of a job. And some drivers are right now already have to work 12 hours a day, seven, seven days a week. And that's just one category where AI and I don't know if everybody always associates Waymo with AI, but that is a manifestation of AI. so I see. Despite what Sam is saying, unfortunately, I see an increase ⁓ the stakes. I in general an increase. I see almost what I would almost call the end game of capitalism as we see. I'm seeing, I'm seeing unfold to a level where, like I mentioned earlier, you can press button and get any food. You can get sushi delivered to you with press of a button. we didn't grow up that. There were kids that that's all they know. You can have a press of a button. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: call somebody. clearly across the country. this is not all these things are is the world's going to change at a very rapid pace. And I think we've gone to a place where the acceleration is harder to adapt to because I'm feeling the need to adapt at a level that I never had to in the past. I'm just embracing it. But I see that this is for some people or maybe even a lot more people. It is a more scary time. because the speed is coming, the speed is unprecedented. So I do think Silicon Valley is having a little bit of a wake up call there, cause I do think that they typically, at least when I lived there, me and Dre lived there, I think Brian, you were there for a while. There's a different train of thought and it definitely feels like you're living in a, not like, it didn't feel like I was living in America. feel like I was living in America, it's like I was living in America, but not like not really. it's like, I know. It was just, it was just strange. was, was very strange to me and not like LA, LA is strange in a more obvious American way, but Silicon Valley had a different vibe to it. That's can really put to it. Brylan: That's a great way to describe it. Dre: no totally agree with that haven't been back in years I can't even imagine what it's like now Rodney: Yeah, I went back like for a company trip about five, it's strange, it's still strange. guess it's eerie low key. Yeah. Dre: Yeah. Yeah, it's yeah, it was it's always kind of been that way eerie is a good way to describe it That's a very good way to describe san francisco sure for sure man man ⁓ better use Sam better flex that money if i'm sam bro, i'm living on 100 acres. You're not even gonna be able to see my house Rodney: Yeah, yeah. Bro! ⁓ Sam loves it though. wrote an article once and he loved the fog. ⁓ Brylan: He should take a playbook from Mark Zuckerberg, Buy the whole block, bro. Dre: seriously, like, for real, because people bro, they might be living in a bubble, but they better understand one thing. Niggas are angry. People are angry and able to go back and read history. People are willing to go to war over their assets and over their ability to produce. They will go to war. They will fight to death for that. That is that is deep embedded in the American Doctrine of our way of life if you take away our ability to produce We're angry and I think right now there is a class of people that are very angry and are very upset and so I Don't know what the elite class is gonna do Rodney: Yeah. But can I ask you a question though? What does a 20 year old have to be mad about? real quick, like the 20 year old, that seems to me he might have been on TikTok a little too much. He's 20 years old. He's still, 20. Like he's 20. Like I get the 30, your 30s, maybe even 40s, 50s. I get that. I ⁓ can't But at 20 years old, I mean, maybe he has family members that are affected, but at 20 years old, that kind of comes off like he's been on social media too much or he's been reading, listening to the news too much. Like what possesses such, yeah. Dre: Probably both. Probably a little bit of too much of TikTok, but also too probably. I'm sure we all grew up in a house. If were money issues, was attention. You know what I'm saying? Like we all that. Like every child feels that. If it's money issues, you're going to feel the attention. And if you lucky enough to have parents that don't reflect that on the kids, then you had great parents. Rodney: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not that. Dre: You had great parents that showed you. But for most people, when there were money issues, financial issues, you feel that. You know what saying? So when we look at people, like Brightlin kind of walked through the timeline. If you went through the dot com boom and your income was a little bit shady, and then you go into 2008 and you're a little bit shady, and then you go through the inter... Bro, it's been like recovery time. You've been trying for decades trying to recover. You know what I'm saying? So you probably... Rodney: You feel that, you feel that, you feel that, you feel that. It's scary. Brylan: you Bro, you've been working yo ass off. Dre: You're working your ass off. You know what saying? But that Halsey Griffin is tight. It was tight. was tight, man. Brylan: And then hold on, this is on top of the world getting expensive, bruh. Dre: Yeah, that's not a whole different thing. Rodney: Okay, I'm just saying if a 20 year old is that mad, we have some serious problems. We have some serious... Dre: 100%. ⁓ and. ⁓ Brylan: What was the situation? Was he in college or anything or? Rodney: I mean, he must, I don't know, maybe, Yeah, yeah. I know, but he's only 20 though. He didn't even give it a chance. He got to give it a second. You're like. Dre: ⁓ yeah, cause that matters too. College niggas been getting hit hard. Brylan: Yeah, them niggas ain't getting no jobs. They gonna be the first to revolt. ⁓ Dre: Yeah, he got it. Brylan: Maybe he gave intern season a chance. Dre: He got to at least fly to 2000 jobs, at least 2000 first. It's crazy, right? And they hear that and they think I'm joking. I'm not joking. 2000 is the bare minimum. That's the minimum. Rodney: Nose crazy? took me, yeah, because it literally took me a thousand jobs, a thousand applications, a thousand applications. sometimes I think, I'm like, should I go out there and tell people how to get a job? Sometimes I think, I'm like. Dre: that's a thousand. That's a thousand apps for somebody with almost ⁓ 10 years of experience. So if you're a new grad, you at least got to double that. You ain't even got a chance if you ain't hitting double. Rodney: Yes, ⁓ yes, yes. Yeah. I mean, you have to, you basically need a perfect application. And even at that, like it's numbers and also too, mean, you got to do, you have to be like really good. There's no room for error when you show up to the interview. it's like, it's like, have to be flawless. you know, but I will say, I will say it definitely, I mean, I did rise to the, I did. Brylan: Yeah. Dre: That's tough. Rodney: rise to it and it may be better, I can tell you, I can see why, I can see why people don't, don't make it. And and additionally. Dre: you Rodney: just remember when we were getting older, I thought applying to like 20 jobs or like 50 jobs was a lot. Like when I was coming up, having like five interviews, even at of the hardest times getting a job, when we first went to San Francisco or Berkeley, I still, that was nowhere near as many jobs as you need to do now. Dre: Yeah, yeah, Mm-hmm. Rodney: That was hard, but it wasn't like I got a job in less than 10 interviews. Like it probably took five interviews to get a job Berkeley and maybe like a hundred applications over time. But now I kind of think people need to apply to 10 jobs a day. Like in my opinion, if you're not applying to 10 jobs a day, you're not going to make it. ⁓ Brylan: ⁓ huh. Dre: Yeah. You're behind. You're behind. No, for sure. Especially if you're a new grad. It just only exacerbated. A lot of companies are not hiring entry-level workers. They're just not. Rodney: Absolutely not. And you know what sucks? seems like some of these kids are getting a lot of pressure from their parents, because their parents are, they're not happy that they can't get a job. And some of these parents have paid for some of schooling. So they're really kind of, like everybody's in their pretty much tents and not happy. that's not a good feeling. ⁓ Brylan: Yeah. I think, I think one of the things you're going to end up seeing at like school level while we're just kind on that topic is I do think you're going to potentially see even a split there, right? Where I think the value for private institution, like education, is going to like go where I think it's going to go down for public institutions. because it's, it's actually crazy. Like, I mean, I haven't been there almost going on a year, but like I'm still pretty close with a ton of students Northwestern. And can just tell you now, their story in terms of their job market is way different than I feel like the dominant narrative. And once again, it may just be that just a small sample size, but I like. Yeah, I am the belief that like, if you really go look at a lot of these companies, network is going to matter more than ever. Right. think, I think that, and do think being at one of these institutions, especially if education is going traditional university, higher education is going to be a thing. Like that premium is just going to go up. Cause I do think the odds of just getting a job from that is going to continue to still to be high. And I'm a very good paying job. Dre: So guess the takeaway here is you got to go to an elite university and be in a elite network, elite network and have a chance. Brylan: You got to. If not, if not, if not, just go ahead and go to trade school or something, Or like. Rodney: Yeah, I that. Yeah. can people right now, just lock in. If you're listening right now, just lock in. This is going to a time, like being comfortable is the absolute worst thing you could do right now. Everything ⁓ right now is being efficient, utilizing automation, getting out there, network. And even if you go to trade school, my does H-PAC and he's making money, but he's growing in field and that field is getting bigger. then ⁓ there's other too that are, there's all these different options. But even if you have a job, before I ⁓ it was to have one income, but I think you need multiple incomes. I think you and... Basically, I think the competitive pressure is going up and just either you're adapt or you're not. Either you're gonna adapt or you're not. That's how I see it. really, and I don't want a chance whether or not they'll bail people out. Like, so I just feel like the option is to adapt. They might bail us out they don't. So I'm just gonna assume that they're not gonna bail nobody out. right I'm just personally on the adaptation part, but yeah. ⁓ Brylan: facts. Yeah, I got it. I got got it. I got a jump, but I'm gonna catch up with y'all All right, Rodney: This whole thing about us. All right. All right. All right, So this thing about, I guess we're at nearly an hour, but you want to come over one more topic or do you want to just finish it off on this? Okay. Okay. Dre: Alright bro. Yeah, we can cover one more. We can cover one more. That'll probably take us to 60 minutes. Rodney: Okay, okay. So, let's talk about Mythos, the Anthropic. I always wait till Brown and Leaves, ⁓ not gonna, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go, I'm not gonna, I'll try not to get too much on Anthropic. But basically, on 13th, they, one of co-founders from Anthropics, Dre: Ha. Rodney: Jack started talking with the Trump administration the new model mythos. We talked about mythos on the last podcast and just one of the new models from Anthropik where they're talking about how dangerous is, but also how capable it is. And there's been a lot of like stuff around that model, but the reason I'm bringing this up because maybe a month ago or maybe even a month ago. They fell out with the government and Trump and the Trump administration. Trump came out and basically banned them from all military operations and from being used as a government contractor. And that was a big blow to Anthop. And they turned around and kind of used that as like, kind like they stood for something good. But one of the reasons why they are talking to the government now, because essentially they're trying to convince the government. the treasury secretary, Scott Besson, that essentially you're going to need this model. model can detect a lot of vulnerabilities. You guys might have security flaws, et cetera. Like maybe we should put some of these things ⁓ So I don't know what you think, but I think that is a. It's not surprising. It's not surprising at all. Dre: Yeah, not surprised either I mean I think they just have a great model right they they have one of the best products in their space right And I mean it's like it from a government standpoint they need to be using the best anyway, right? So I mean, I think it just goes to show that they might actually have something at least at least it appears that way We don't really know because it's not publicly available quite yet. I know we were passing around a clip earlier around from the all in pot with Shamoff. He was giving him the pan about it. he was saying he don't believe they really got nothing crazy. He think it's just, ⁓ he, he, he classified it as just the Adder. That's basically what it is. It just, it's just noise. It's just noise in the arena and now they don't really have nothing, which I don't know. I pushed back against that. I think because, mean, they have one of the best coding models, right? And so it wouldn't be surprising to me that if you have one of the best coding models, you would have one the best models. Rodney: Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Dre: for spotting vulnerabilities in software. mean, you got one, now they didn't have that. Then I'd be like, okay, well, how'd they get that? You know, you probably push back against that. But given, given that they do have one of the best coding models is widely accepted that, you know, lot of developers love using, cloud models for coding. It is not surprising to me that they would have a model that would be good at that. Now, is it as dangerous and all of that? that's, you know, Maybe that's more of what Shumoff is leaning into. don't know if he was necessarily given a critique of the product as much as the narrative behind the product, meaning that they're saying that is very dangerous and doesn't need to get released. But I would, I mean, had this conversation. I can see the standpoint of. kind of talked about this earlier. Every, ⁓ every is getting better every six months or whatever the cadence is. Maybe that time is being compressed, but we know that there is a. Rodney: Yeah. Dre: advancement that's happening. I think maybe there is a fair case for as you continue to give more capabilities to these models, the risk factor in certain areas increases. And so therefore they do become essentially more dangerous in some regard. Now, if danger is the right word to use, maybe that's, you you're playing semantics at that case, at that point. But I do think there's something too, as these things become more capable, like you know, they can scan a code base, whatever capabilities are to identify these vulnerabilities. I mean, is that dangerous? Maybe, right? Maybe, you know, maybe if pair was something else, it could be, you know, I think, you know, some of these models been able to automate a certain task. Is that dangerous? Again, maybe who, it depends on who's behind it. You know what I'm saying? But I do think there's something to capability and risk factor. Right. And it seems like Anthropic is kind of walking a thin line between that versus OpenAI seems to be taking a different approach to it. And maybe they have certain capabilities that they haven't announced yet or haven't released. So we don't know. Maybe they've taken the same approach, but that's kind of what I'm thinking. Shamoff is kind of eluded to. Rodney: Yeah, I think you're on the aspect of, it's undeniable that Cloud and just Anthop is putting out good models, especially applied to coding. It's just undeniable. I mean, even in my own job, I'm personally Cloud a lot in my own development process. And not necessarily Code, still using the model within Cursor. Dre: Yeah. Rodney: And I do think that Anthropic is creating these very capable models. wonder if, I what it is is ⁓ that, We were in a position, everybody's in a position to take them seriously because it's kind of like one of those things where. it might be dangerous. So you kind of have to take what they're saying seriously, even if you don't believe them. like, and I was, and they said something similar on the All In podcast, but the thing that I noticed was, was that, They have come out and said things before. They've come out and said that this model is very dangerous. And so yes, it is this like, boy who cried wolf scenario where. You cried wolf multiple times before we've seen this before and now you're saying it and we're like, hmm, like last time you said this, Like happened. Like if there was those, ⁓ it as dangerous as it was, as they were saying it was before. then going on? What happened? And think that shows. I guess over time, their credibility goes down. And here's the thing, it would not be good though to be shocked by a really dangerous model. Like just like in the boy who cried wolf. mean, yeah, he cried wolf multiple times and then one day the wolf actually was there and didn't, and nobody believed it. And so that is something important that they should consider. maybe it's that they genuinely it was dangerous each time. Like it might even be a trick. Dre: And what Yeah. Rodney: See, did, one thing I will say is that I did attribute a little bit of intent, which may not exist. Maybe they really do believe in each time they really do believe how, like how dangerous the model is. Maybe they do believe that. And in that case, it's not really necessarily a lot. So. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what to think about that. I to think about this stuff. if these vulnerabilities are serious, essentially that could cause a lot of, I guess what it is, it's so vague. when say vulnerabilities and they say these vulnerabilities, like what exactly do they mean? And then. Dre: Yeah. Rodney: They're giving them to these big companies, which a lot of important things that we all rely on can be used by these, ⁓ sorry, lot of these big companies like Apple, Microsoft, et cetera, that they're giving the model to. Yeah, a lot of the infrastructure relies on these things. And so I guess giving the model to them can help increase security and stuff like that. But at the same time. I guess maybe that's why they're also going to the government and trying to say, Hey, look, take a look. cause I would be, I, one thing I am worried about in this, like acceleration that we're all going through and no mistake. That's what we're all going through. We're going through an extremely accelerated period where there are impending changes, actually not even impending. They're happening live. They're happening every hour, every, every day. Dre: you Rodney: and they're compounding. And one thing that I do worry about is vulnerabilities in critical infrastructure. That's probably the main thing out of anything. Dre: Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, think there's a ton of them there, right? So I would hope that some of these large companies that they are letting test this include like utilities, especially right now. We talked about this on the last pod that Iran has a pretty sophisticated cyber offense capabilities. And I'm sure there's other countries as well, obviously Russia, China as well. And so. If any time you ever have we needed like, you know, technology like this to hopefully down, reduce, because I don't think you can ever stop as we know, right? These types of attacks is better, is better for us. So hopefully it is, man. I don't know. I agree with you. I think they have cry wolf quite a bit, but at some point that does become true. So I don't know if we're there, if we're quite there yet, I guess we'll see. Rodney: I, so we have a few more minutes, right? And I will say, that was something that this is, this may scare some people, but this is, this is just what came to my mind. And I've worked for a, you know, I, built a cybersecurity company. I've, I've made money off cybersecurity products, encryption products, et cetera. So my mind goes to these, these, these, scenarios, but If Enthopic was correct, and then hypothetically China distilled their model for maybe like $50 million, $100 million. So then, know, Enthopic spent billions of dollars probably training this one. And then China distills it a month or less. And it truly does have this level of vulnerability. finding, et cetera. It does kind of feel like we're in a race to protect all our infrastructure. I could, cause I could see sweeping. I'll just paint the picture for people. I could see sweeping. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: sweeping cyber attacks that could take down water. Dre: Mm-hmm. Rodney: They could take down systems. So different products won't come on time. Bread won't get delivered. Chickens won't get delivered. Very important things. I could see oil and gas being so you can't fill up your car. But then, know, if you have an electric vehicle, you might be kind of safe from that. I could see basically a full out attack it is possible that we have been sitting around arrogant for a while. It is possible that we have been number one and have been sitting around comfortable and lazy while the world has basically been up under us saying, okay. like, let's get everything in order so that we can, like, basically, like, fuck America, basically. that actually comes with the territory of being number one. I think people kind of made me forget that a bit is that you don't just get to be number one. And then everybody else is just like, ⁓ right. Right. you know, they're, they're, obviously always making Dre: Cool. Cool. with it. Rodney: Somebody's obviously always making plans to change the order. And even if people like the order. inevitably, there's a leader that comes that does not like the order and he's going to shoot in a more ambitious way and I I guess But yeah, this is why I don't this is why I hope I like I'll tell you this much these models better be dangerous better be dangerous Because they're dangerous, let's get it over with let's just let's just get it over with all this all these job losses all these accelerations, these bombs hitting AI CEO's houses and these escalation everywhere. Let's just get it over with. Whatever is going on out here, let's just get it over with. Let's just get it over with. Like whatever all this is, all this chaos, Iran, whatever, let's just get it over with. Let's get it over with. And I guess what came to mind is what Ray Dalio said, the new world order, whatever that is, let's just get to it. Like whatever that is, just get to it. Like, cause clearly. Dre: I'm here. Rodney: Like we're out of control, bro. 20 year olds, yo, when we were 20 years old, we wanted to be the tech billionaires. We wanted to be the tech billionaires. thought that we could go to, like we wanted to be, we had ambition to, we thought we could do things. We believed in the American dream. We still believe in the American dream. And we're living, we're actually, we're proof of the American dream and we have been living that and we still live that. But not like when we were 20, that's how we thought. Like we had our own startup, like, and then you have a 20 year old who's like blaming Sam or how, like, cause clearly his life is not going well. He has some type of mental issue or some type of social issues, or he has a financial issue. He has something going like clearly, and he thinks that Sam's the source of the problem. And actually that's something that I'm seeing is that because times are so hard, people are looking for a scapegoat. Dre: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Rodney: And the easiest scapegoats are the people who are doing well, the people who are healthy, the people who are... And that is a... I don't know, that's tricky. That's tricky. Dre: Not think that's well said bro, so your place to end it I think you're right Rodney: Yeah, let's it on that.