Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / The Power of Networking In The Dance World

Transcript

The Power of Networking In The Dance World · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

0:07
SPEAKER_01: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
0:10
SPEAKER_01: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
0:13
SPEAKER_01: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: There's no doubt about it.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: The dance world is very small, and who you know matters more than you may think.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: In today's episode of Making the Impact, we're joined by two IBA judges who have times to share about the importance of networking and dance, from ways to create a community to how to book a job based on reputation alone.
0:42
SPEAKER_03: Hey y'all, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact, a dance company podcast.
0:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Courtney Orton, and I am here with my co-host, Leslie Mealer.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: Hi, everybody.
0:55
SPEAKER_03: Happy December.
0:56
SPEAKER_03: Happy December.
0:58
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, I cannot believe that the year is practically over.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: I can't either, and I'm not too unhappy about it.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Let's move forward, but I also wanted to give a quick shout out.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: It's my mom's birthday.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: So happy birthday, Miss Brenda.
1:13
SPEAKER_03: Happy birthday, Mom.
1:16
SPEAKER_03: And speaking of birthdays, now that I'm thinking about it, since we are in December, it was Gatsby's birthday yesterday.
1:23
SPEAKER_03: That's my cat, everybody.
1:24
SPEAKER_03: If you don't know, he rules the apartment.
1:26
SPEAKER_03: He's an orange grumpy cat.
1:28
SPEAKER_03: He's nine.
1:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness, your baby's so big.
1:32
SPEAKER_03: I know.
1:33
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
1:33
SPEAKER_03: I don't like thinking about that.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: Stress me out.
1:35
SPEAKER_03: But yes, happy birthday, Gats.
1:37
SPEAKER_03: Happy birthday, Brenda.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: We love y'all.
1:42
SPEAKER_03: Big fans of the pod.
1:43
SPEAKER_03: Big fans of the pod.
1:45
SPEAKER_03: We have a lot of celebrating to do over here when making the impact because not only are we celebrating two birthdays that we just talked about, but we also have hit a hundred thousand downloads of the podcast.
2:01
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
2:03
SPEAKER_03: That is amazing.
2:05
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
2:07
SPEAKER_03: Whoa.
2:08
SPEAKER_03: This happened back in November, but I it's taken me a minute to announce it to the world.
2:12
SPEAKER_03: So to every single fan and listener that tunes in weekly and loves what we're doing over here at the pod.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for subscribing.
2:22
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening.
2:23
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for spreading the word and sharing it with all of your dance friends.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: Thanks for joining our Facebook group, which by the way, don't forget, come join us over there at making the Impact to Dance Competition Podcast community.
2:34
SPEAKER_03: We love you all so much and we are so grateful.
2:37
SPEAKER_03: We really, I never expected uh it to grow like this big when we started this little like podcast idea two years ago.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean a hundred thousand downloads.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Like I don't even have a comprehension of what that is or like I can't picture a space with that many people in it or that many things, like it's too much.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: But that's great.
2:56
SPEAKER_03: It's great.
2:56
SPEAKER_03: And people are listening all over the world.
2:58
SPEAKER_03: It's so cool.
2:59
SPEAKER_03: And speaking of, I'm gonna jump right in really quick because that's a good segue.
3:03
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's a great segue, do it.
3:05
SPEAKER_03: To tell all of our listeners that our Kofi account is up and running.
3:10
SPEAKER_03: And if you've heard us talk about it on the podcast before, we started it this season, and it's a way for all of you fans not only through your listens, but to show us more support.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: If you love what we're doing, you can buy us a coffee on Kofi.
3:24
SPEAKER_03: And you can donate to us as little as three dollars or however much you'd like to donate our way.
3:30
SPEAKER_03: And all of your donations go directly back into producing this podcast that you're listening to.
3:35
SPEAKER_03: And with that being said, we also received our very first international donation from Sheila Oakley all the way from Australia, y'all.
3:47
SPEAKER_03: I mean, how cool is that?
3:48
SPEAKER_03: People are listening to us in Australia.
3:51
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, it was so exciting to receive that.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: So thank you, Sheila, for donating from so far away.
3:57
SPEAKER_03: We love your support in the dance world all the way down under.
4:01
SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
4:02
SPEAKER_03: And if anybody else wants to show their love and support to us, then head on over to Kofi.com slash making the impact and buy us a coffee.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: And next up, before we jump into the episode, we just have to give a shout out to our amazing sponsor for season three.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: And these guys have been with us all the way since season one.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: This is Level Up Dance Supplies.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Level Up Dance Supplies is more than just the leading retailer of top name brand dance bags.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: They were established in 2010 by a dance mom, and their goal is to be your one-stop shop for all of your dance gear and accessory needs.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: They've got flooring, privacy tents, stretching and travel gear.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: They've got you covered from head to toe.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: And their staff is always working to ensure that they have what you want, what you need, and at a price that you can afford, because quality and affordability is always a top priority at level up.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Be sure to follow Level Up Dance Supplies on Facebook for new products, sales, coupon codes, and product updates.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Use our exclusive promo code Impact21, all caps at checkout for$10 off your order at LevelUpDance Supplies.com.
5:01
SPEAKER_03: All right, listeners.
5:02
SPEAKER_03: So I didn't even have a chance to tell you what we're talking about today.
5:05
SPEAKER_03: And on today's episode, we are chatting about networking, which is obviously an extremely important skill to learn how to do as soon as you can in the dance world.
5:16
SPEAKER_03: And we have two IDA judges joining us on this discussion who are fabulous networkers themselves.
5:23
SPEAKER_03: And I'm excited to introduce them to the pod.
5:25
SPEAKER_03: They're also both brand new guests to the pod.
5:28
SPEAKER_03: So you've never heard them before.
5:30
SPEAKER_03: And the very first judge that I would love to welcome, she's been on our roster for a few years.
5:35
SPEAKER_03: She's a wonderful judge.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: I've auditioned alongside her in New York City.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: And I'm very excited to welcome for the first time on the podcast, Jenny Olwine to the pod.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you, thank you so much.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: I am so excited to be on here and especially under this topic, too, which I think is something that's going to be incredible to get out there to younger listeners.
5:56
SPEAKER_02: So excited.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being with us.
6:00
SPEAKER_03: Yes, absolutely.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: We're pumped to have you.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: And if you wouldn't mind, since you're new, to share a little bit about you, where you're originally from, where you're based now, any career credits you'd like to share, and tell the world all about Jenny.
6:15
SPEAKER_03: Awesome.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, I grew up in a little small town outside of Chicago called Morris, that was just surrounded by cornfields and the several dance studios.
6:24
SPEAKER_02: And I actually ended up leaving as soon as I could to go to school in Pittsburgh.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: I went to Point Park University where I got my degree in dance and my minor in musical theater.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: And luckily, pretty much right out of college, networked my way into my first professional job, which was with Royal Caribbean.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: So the cruise line industry was pretty kind to me from becoming a dance captain on there and doing musicals on their ships.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then immediately when I moved here, the job of being a show director for a competitive cruise line fell into my lap.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: So I got to move over to the Holland America side of things and start installing.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: I also started auditioning, which is kind of where I came into Courtney's orbit.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, like the way that I came to you guys too was through networking with another colleague of mine.
7:16
SPEAKER_02: So just a couple of the shows that I've done more recently.
7:18
SPEAKER_02: I did the National Tour of Elf, I did the regional premiere of the Bodyguard, Legally Blonde.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so I kind of stepped back into some more performance type things after I settled into the show director position here and have just been auditioning and hustling ever since.
7:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, girl.
7:35
SPEAKER_03: Yes, you are.
7:37
SPEAKER_03: You're even booking in the pandemic.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we actually officially just got our very first performance-related job outside of the pandemic.
7:44
SPEAKER_02: Just got news yesterday that I booked a commercial, so I'm flying to Florida this weekend.
7:51
SPEAKER_03: Congrats.
7:52
SPEAKER_03: How exciting! Pumped for you.
7:55
SPEAKER_03: Very grateful.
7:56
SPEAKER_03: Yay! Well, we're super happy to have you on the roster and to have you joining us tonight on the podcast.
8:01
SPEAKER_03: So thank you for spending your eve with us.
8:03
SPEAKER_03: All right, and next up is a brand new judge to the IDA roster this season.
8:11
SPEAKER_03: And I am excited to get to know her on the podcast tonight for the very first time.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to welcome Cece Kelly to the podcast.
8:20
SPEAKER_03: Welcome.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: Hey, how are you?
8:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited to be here.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
8:27
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the pod.
8:28
SPEAKER_03: You're our very uh out of all of the new IDA judges that we have brought onto the roster for the 2022 season, you're our the first newbie joining us on the podcast.
8:39
SPEAKER_03: So welcome.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: It's an honor.
8:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're excited to have you, and I can't wait to hear and learn more about you tonight.
8:48
SPEAKER_03: But feel free to share a little bit about you with all of our listeners.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm from Atlanta, and that's where I currently reside now.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: Grew up in the competitive world and all of that stuff, and have a beautiful, she just turned 10 daughter.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, she's oh my gosh, I love her.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: She's making some cameos on our pod.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: But yes, I'm a mother to a wonderful, vivacious 10-year-old.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: But my dance career pretty much started here in Atlanta, did the whole competitive route and loved it, and it really geared me up for what I chose to do professionally.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: I actually went to undergrad in Philadelphia at the University of the Arts and then returned back there to get my master's.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: And currently I am a dance professor at the prestigious Spelman College.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: But career-wise, my focus went more commercial.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've had the wonderful opportunity to dance with Beyoncé several times in a number of her music videos and her live TV shows for MTV.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: I was an MTV maid coach.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: I've choreographed for Tony Braxton.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Every film and TV that you've seen, maybe recently.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: I've probably had a little hand in it.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh I've worked with Morgan Freeman, Robert De Niro, you name it.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: It's been a wonderful, blessed career.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: And all of that was made possible by networking.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:17
SPEAKER_03: Nice segue.
10:18
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
10:19
SPEAKER_03: Great segue.
10:20
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I can't wait to hear all about it all, y'all.
10:24
SPEAKER_03: Well, Cece, thank you.
10:25
SPEAKER_03: Wow, what a career.
10:26
SPEAKER_03: Also, when you said MTV Made Coach, I totally forgot about that show.
10:30
SPEAKER_03: What a good show.
10:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: I love watching that show.
10:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:34
SPEAKER_03: That's awesome.
10:36
SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you both for joining us tonight.
10:38
SPEAKER_03: Let's dive in and tell the world a little bit more about networking in the dance world.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: All right, guys.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: So super stoked to have you both here.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: And CeCe, I don't know you personally, but you know so many of my mom's students from Georgia.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Layla Badrogi.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that whole crew that comes from Kennesaw.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: That's that's my mom's kid.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: So I've heard so much about you over the years and just am so grateful that you're here with us and you can share your knowledge.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: That's so awesome.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: It's so, you know, it's interesting you say that because when I saw your name and your picture, I was like, I know that person.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't know where I know her from, but I know that person.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: There's some networking to be had here too.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: All right.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: So we're talking about networking, and networking can be a skill that, you know, it's beneficial for everybody.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: So like I would honestly just say anybody who has a teenager, maybe listen to this podcast.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you dance or not, because that's people, people just need to know how to do this.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: But specifically in the dance world, because it is so small, I think it's one of those skills that it does kind of have to be learned.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: And your personality has to kind of get formed in a way that makes you more comfortable with networking.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: And so I guess what is networking to both of you?
11:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, what does that mean?
11:49
SPEAKER_01: What was sort of your first thoughts when you heard that you were going to be on this podcast?
11:54
SPEAKER_01: Like, what were you thinking that we were going to talk about?
11:56
SPEAKER_02: Well, I know that I was really excited uh that you were actually bringing up the topic of networking because it is something that I didn't, I wasn't introduced to until later in life.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: And had that been a skill that I was being taught in the competitive realm or at the competition circuit level, it would have been easier to feel less shy about it.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: But networking is basically your ability to communicate and connect to others, whether that's in a teacher mentor or whether that's another student.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: It's just your ability to create your community and build your web.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:27
SPEAKER_01: Love that term, create your community.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: I immediately go to the uh business aspect of it in terms of being very strategic of the environments you place yourself within, being very strategic of your brand awareness.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I always tell my students is as a commercial dancer, your primary role is to sell a product or to sell that artist.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, does your image, you know, different things like that, does it line up with what that artist, you know, is portraying artistically?
13:03
SPEAKER_00: If you're doing a commercial, you know, what is your address when you're going into the audition?
13:08
SPEAKER_00: It's very strategic in terms of where you need to focus, you know, with how all of that works.
13:13
SPEAKER_03: That's great.
13:14
SPEAKER_03: That's a great advice right off the bat, even just thinking about, you know, commercial casting, kind of like where you were going, and also Jenny just saying that you booked a commercial and then CeCe, you're saying you have to sell the brand.
13:26
SPEAKER_03: Like that is that is so true when it comes to the casting aspect of things.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: And like, I think another important thing like goes hand in hand with networking, but also casting is like knowing where you belong as far as like your look and what you're right for.
13:41
SPEAKER_03: Depends on the brand.
13:42
SPEAKER_03: Like, you would never like walk into a Disney audition in like a two-piece like leotard and like a two-piece uh bikini practically.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Rock of ages looking yeah, yeah.
13:54
SPEAKER_03: You have to kind of know what the vibe is, and you want to make sure that you're very clean, cut, put together, your hair is done right, your lips are per like red lip, whatever it is, you know, like just knowing those things on the casting side and knowing where you fit is also going to help.
14:08
SPEAKER_03: But uh great, great definitions of of networking right off the bat.
14:12
SPEAKER_03: And also, Leslie, I'm so happy that you said that anyone should be listening to this because networking is a life skill that you're gonna use throughout your career, but it is really great we're talking about this now because, like you said, Jenny, I feel the same way.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: I didn't, I kind of like just went for it as far as networking.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: I no one ever gave me advice or taught me how.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Well, no one even started the conversation that it was okay for you to go up to say the teacher at the convention and introduce yourself.
14:43
SPEAKER_02: Like that just wasn't taught to us in our era.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: And honestly, like the sooner that you can say, Hi, I'm Jenny, and start a relationship with that person, and whether that person knows someone, like you know each other's mom's studio, it it really is a smaller community than we think.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: And and I just think that it's a skill that is good for not just dancers, too.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: There are jobs that I've given to people that are non-dance-related jobs that just because they've been in the right place at the right time or I've thought about them, that I've then been able to hand off.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Totally agree.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: What?
15:19
SPEAKER_01: So I think my question would be if we're talking about younger people, because you know, I feel like I had a decent connection with networking early on because I didn't go to a super competitive studio.
15:32
SPEAKER_01: So I wasn't going to these big competitions and meeting big people or conventions.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: My high school, I didn't go to the performing arts high school where all the kids were getting the good training and the good, you know, guest teachers.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: I went to the city school.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: And so I got to know those people who went to that good school by doing summer theater, by doing summer vocal lessons and branching out that way.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: And but my memories of that was I was scared.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: I was scared to put myself out there because I didn't know if I was even welcomed in those spaces because I came from another place that wasn't as prestigious.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: But what I found is that those people that I met through those summer programs, that I was like, you know what?
16:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna go do this and meet these people.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: I'm 36 years old, and that was in 2001.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: I am still dear friends with those people.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: And they still, one of them's been on the podcast.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Josh Carter was on our improv podcast.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: Like relationships I made really early with people that I wasn't even associated with naturally.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Like I had to go outside of my comfort zone to associate myself with them, are still A, number one, friends, but B, helpful to me in my career because of that networking that I did.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: So, do you have any advice for younger generations to figure out how to branch out that way?
16:43
SPEAKER_01: Cause I think, you know, we do have so much social media and like it feels easier, but like part of me thinks maybe it's actually not.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: For whatever reason, this is what first came to my head in terms of the younger generation linking up with, I don't want to necessarily say older generation, but the ones who are usually doing the hiring, whatever you want to call it.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like you gain muscle memory when you write something down, or you there's something about the hand and a pencil and a paper coordination that helps the brain remember what's going on.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: To me, it's similar like that in terms of when you're going to meet someone to take the social media aspect out of it.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: But when I actually shake your hand, of course, this is pre-COVID, but when I actually, you know, lay my eyes on you, shake your hand, I can feel your energy and have that connection.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: I know me personally, as someone who's on the you know, older generation of hiring dancers and different things like that, that means more to me than getting a ton of DMs because I can actually place a face with a name.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: I can feel your energy, and energy is huge in the dance industry, especially if you're going to be in eight-hour rehearsals for God knows how many weeks and on you're on a set for God knows how long.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Being able to consistently have that vibration with you is really, really important in terms of you know, getting to meet different people, especially the higher ups, you know, if you will.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so true.
18:12
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I love what you said about that because it really does come down to becoming the person in the room that you want to work with.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: And how how do you prepare yourself to become that person?
18:23
SPEAKER_02: So whether that's I I think that honestly, the pandemic kind of helped level the playing field since everything was virtual for so long, that it's made those messages actually be more appropriate.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Like now, some of the students that I go and I teach intensive at, like, I'll always say, like, if you if you share this or you want feedback, please feel free to reach out to me.
18:44
SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, I love being there to teach you in person, but I'm more than happy for anyone who would want that to know that they could do that.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: So I think that it's just about uh being bold and it when we're in these virtual classes right now, like stepping in and not being afraid to try the person's class you're afraid to take.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: It kind of takes the fear out of going in person right now, too, and just allows you to just connect to what the movement is.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: So I think that I think that the virtual aspect of things has made it a little bit easier, and I think that like the younger generation should just be a little bit more bold with their interactions and what they take there.
19:21
SPEAKER_02: Totally agree.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting.
19:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm going back actually to what you were saying before, Jenny, about how when we were younger, it wasn't really taught to us to like go up and introduce yourself or oh my gosh, I can't, I'm not allowed to talk to anybody.
19:40
SPEAKER_03: And like, I will say, as far as like approaching, let's say a judge at a competition, probably a no across the board, everybody, just letting you know.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: Hard no to the parents, hard no to the kids.
19:56
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you can say hi and you know, if you see them walking, but don't like run and give them a hug or you know, don't be about my dance.
20:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, to the judges, no.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: It's just not the right place.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: It's we're on a different, we're on a different side of the table at that point.
20:12
SPEAKER_03: We're almost like, you know, the casting directors.
20:15
SPEAKER_03: You can say thank you at the end of competition, but that's about it.
20:18
SPEAKER_03: But same, I mean, same as something as at the end of class, like the come and say thank you.
20:23
SPEAKER_03: Come say I I really enjoyed your class.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: Follow up if you really want to, with a, you know, a comment on social media if you want.
20:32
SPEAKER_03: I will say it's a little sticky right now.
20:33
SPEAKER_03: You know, social media in the dance world is a little sticky, if you know what I'm talking about.
20:38
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of things going on in the dance world with private messages and things like that.
20:44
SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't know if it's always that appropriate.
20:47
SPEAKER_03: I think it really depends, but something as simple as a like or something as simple as a thank you on a post is, I think, okay.
20:56
SPEAKER_03: All the kids have the social media, you know, every everybody has it.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: So it is a it is a platform for communication, but there's also another thing to think about, especially when right now we're kind of talking about like how do kids approach networking?
21:10
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's important to remember, and this goes into the adult world too, that you don't want to come across as annoying.
21:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:18
SPEAKER_03: Like it's a fine, fine line.
21:20
SPEAKER_03: There is a very fine line.
21:21
SPEAKER_03: You you want to be persistent, but there's a fine line of getting to a point where it's too persistent where you're just coming across as, oh God, not this person again.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: And you have to know what you want.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: Don't go into some situation just, I want this person to notice me.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: That's not a reason to speak to somebody to ingratiate yourself into their life.
21:44
SPEAKER_01: It's, I want to learn from you.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's there's there needs to be like a specific ask or a specific reason because, like you said now, you know, back in the day, yeah, I would love to come shake your hand, say thank you for class.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: I could show up to class every week for three months, and then we can have a rapport and talk to you.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: But like if we're in the virtual world, I can't DM you every day for three months.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna block me.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: Like you know, so like what do you want from that interaction?
22:09
SPEAKER_01: There has to be more than just notice me, notice me, notice me, which is hard because that's what social media does.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, listening to I I've been talking to a couple new agents recently, and just hearing how much pressure they put on the social media side of things as it being your digital resume, it's like it's yeah, it's a catch-22 because you don't want to lose like the personalization of going to someone's class and shaking their hand and making that lasting impact.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: But right now, if the only way that you can get in front of so and so is by taking this virtual class and posting this online, and then like agents have actually told me that part of some of the breakdowns are them sending your Instagram or your handle out with castings.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: So it really is about how many followers you have creating a brand and creating the image that you need to have.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: And it's just it really is a catch 22 when it comes to the social media aspect of things.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: And thinking about that, just to add into it, you know, one of the things that I I don't mind is when people will tag me in a post.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like a constant message in my DMs, it's just a notification that kind of scrolls through like anybody else with like.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't mind that.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, what I do enjoy about that, and something that I would want to make sure dancers are thinking about, is when you tag someone, make sure when we go to your page, there's consistency in relation to your dance abilities, in relation to what you are posting.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: You know, you just have to kind of be mindful of that.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: And same for choreographers, you know, we want to make sure we're posting our artistic practice, but there's a consistency in relation to what it is that you can do that makes you great, that makes you stand out.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: What's gonna make me scroll through and see some other videos?
23:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what, like, you know, if you're gonna use social media as your digital resume, you know, be very consistent on that platform.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: So great.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have to say, I I retired about four years ago from that, the business.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so glad I did.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: This one's a lot of work.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: I want to post my cat, you know, like I want to post the podcast and my cat, and that's all I want to do.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: It really is.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: It's a whole nother job.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: It is a whole nother world, and it was not that way.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: No, four years ago, it was getting that way, but I was like, I gotta go.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: So the pandemic definitely heightened it because we were trapped inside, stuck on our phones, TikToking, like you know, learning every TikTok video, and now everyone's TikTok famous, and it's like now everyone has to be TikTok famous to compete with the TikTok famous people.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so funny.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: I was telling one of my students, I was like, I came from the era of comp cards, and she was like, comp cards.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: What is a comp card?
24:54
SPEAKER_00: I was like, You're breaking my heart right now.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't talk.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: That's the original Instagram, right?
25:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, that's funny.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think I had comp cards, I had business cards, but the comp cards, I have friends who had them for sure.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Old school.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Love it.
25:11
SPEAKER_03: So thinking back about uh how you kind of it sounds like we all kind of learned to network on our own uh throughout our careers.
25:21
SPEAKER_03: But do you remember any first instances of networking that actually led you to something bigger?
25:29
SPEAKER_03: You know, whether it was a connection with a particular person, a first job that led you to the next to the next to the next type of thing, because that's really at the end of the day what networking is.
25:41
SPEAKER_03: And do any do any specific moments in your career come to mind?
25:45
SPEAKER_00: So I can think of two.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: And the other word that's coming to my head or term, whatever you want to call it, that's really important in the networking is work ethic.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: It goes hand in hand because yeah, you can network, that's great.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: But once you get on set, do you actually know what you're doing?
26:02
SPEAKER_00: So two opportunities early in my career when I first came back from to Atlanta from Philly, I was what they call a go-go dancer in some of the different clubs and different things like that.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: And the go-go dancers of that time, we were like full-on hip-hop b-girl, b-boy dancers, like living our best lives.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: And it was fabulous.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: And I will never forget it, never forget it.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: I was working at, I think it was called Club 1150, completely.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes, don't play.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: I've been there.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Original, original ATL.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: And I'll never forget it.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: And doing that is how I learned how to command the attention of a crowd, different things like that.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: And there was a talent scout that came through the club that night.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I'm young, so I'm not thinking anything of it, but I'm dancing and working or whatever.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Well, we need another dancer for this tour.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: Da-da-da.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: Can you be here the next day?
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay, sure.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: So I showed up the next day at the club, and it turns out to be a tour for L O Cool J.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: And I can't remember who else it was, but um just through always pushing my work ethic and my talent and everything that I could do and being consistent with that is what landed me that job.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: And then that job flourished into so many other jobs because it became two tours that I got to do.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Another one is working with uh the Georgia Lottery and the Atlanta Falcons.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: I got a chance to choreograph their halftime shows for about eight years.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: And it was literally through networking and having a wonderful agent with Excel talent, but just you know, working with the uh creative directors and the advertising agency and listening to what it is that they needed and providing consistency in the product that they were asking for is what continued that relationship.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: So, work ethic is extremely important what you're doing off camera and what you're doing on camera.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: Highly, highly important.
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29:08
SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't, I mean, you can know a ton of people, but if you can't produce something for those people, it's over.
29:15
SPEAKER_03: Reputation comes into my mind as well.
29:18
SPEAKER_03: Because if you can work, work, work, work, work, but if you're gaining a bad reputation with all the work, work, work, work, work, then you might not be working all the time anymore.
29:29
SPEAKER_03: You might not be working as consistently as you could, because you like you just said, you might be a great networker.
29:36
SPEAKER_03: You might know everybody, you might schmooze everybody.
29:40
SPEAKER_03: And then if you get on the set and you're a diva, if you get on the job and you're hard to work with and you're gonna get that reputation, it's that's definitely gonna hurt you.
29:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: It breaks my heart when that happens too, just because of the fact that I've kind of fallen into in the last couple of years in situations where I've been able to network with some of my friends and get them jobs.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: Like that's one of the things that I love the most now being an adult and being in a circle of people is when I can actually help someone else because it does not take anything.
30:12
SPEAKER_02: There's no scarcity of jobs.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: You can create the communities you want to be in.
30:16
SPEAKER_02: And you know, we only rise by lifting others.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: So now I've started to help people get into these positions, whether it's judging or whether it's going out on a convention or pushing someone for an intensive or getting someone onto a cruise line or getting someone into a cast that I'm gonna be teaching.
30:31
SPEAKER_02: Like I love being able to help my friends, except for it has come back to sting sometimes when those people show up and they don't do the work.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: So you you even when you're on the other side of trying to help someone become a stronger networker, it you have to be careful of who you're incorporating yourself with.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: Like I I have had experiences where I have literally gotten jobs because of who I knew.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: This commercial that I just booked, someone knew me, knew I was looking for commercial print representation, got because they liked me, they got me signed with their agency.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: And because of that referral, this commercial came into my orbit.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: But the same, my very first professional job was the same way.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: The choreographer running the audition for it was either for the River North Intensive in Chicago or the Royal Caribbean audition that I did first out of college, it was the same choreographer who I had worked with in an intensive running both of those auditions.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: And so, of course, like already having a relationship with that person, the door opened and here was an intensive, and here was a cruise contract because someone had my back.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: But they also knew that I was going to do the work.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: Now, as an adult, you have to learn like what your friends' skill sets are and what they have to offer and be careful who you're pushing into those rooms.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't hurt anyone to be able to mention someone else's name in a room for sure.
31:57
SPEAKER_03: It's that's so many great points.
31:59
SPEAKER_03: And the whole time that you were saying that, Jenny, it just immediately made me think of just IDA, but what IDA is.
32:07
SPEAKER_03: And I started, I miss I've said this on the pod many times, but to tell new listeners, I started IDA because I was judging a lot, and competitions trusted me for some reason.
32:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, maybe I was good at my job, maybe I was reliable, maybe I came to work one time, maybe I was just a good energy in the room, whatever their reasoning was, they trusted me and they would contact me and say, Hey, Courtney, we need another judge next weekend.
32:34
SPEAKER_03: Do you have any friends that you could recommend?
32:36
SPEAKER_03: Which is networking.
32:38
SPEAKER_03: And then my brain rolls through my Rolodex of reliable friends that are fabulous at doing their job, and I recommend people.
32:45
SPEAKER_03: But like you said, Jenny, it's it's tricky because then it's a remote.
32:50
SPEAKER_03: Your name goes on to who you're recommending.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's like last year I had no no doubts about the fact that like you would love because you already knew Amber Noidelkov, who I brought into IBA after working with her through something else.
33:03
SPEAKER_03: Like, yes, I did a job with Amber.
33:05
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, so long ago.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: The web, the web gets smaller and smaller, and and I mean, great example of like an ability to just be able to help out your friends and know that that friend is going to be able to do the job.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes in a pinch, you just don't necessarily know who the person is in the room.
33:24
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, it's hard to kind of as adults, we start learning that, but even for like young dancers, you want to make sure that you're making the best impression at all times.
33:36
SPEAKER_03: So when you do get into if you decide to, you know, continue on to dance or whatever it is, like your example, Jenny, that you gave about the choreographer from an intensive that then hired you for a job.
33:46
SPEAKER_03: I mean, let's be real, y'all.
33:47
SPEAKER_03: We say it all the time the dance world is so small.
33:51
SPEAKER_03: It is so small.
33:52
SPEAKER_03: You have no idea if that convention teacher that's teaching you a class next year is your college professor or something.
34:00
SPEAKER_03: You just don't know.
34:01
SPEAKER_03: And you have to make sure that you're presenting yourself in the best way possible and not being that person that was like that the teacher's thinking, like, oh God, that student was horrible in class, or they had the worst etiquette, or they I could tell that they just didn't want to be there, you know, anything.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: That's like it makes me chuckle.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: You said college professor.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: That's something that I have had to run into for like the past four years, where I've trained a student since they were a child, and now they're coming into this collegiate setting, and now I'm their teacher all over again.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, I shift gears and go into another space, and now I'm the casting director, but they're also my student at five o'clock, but now they're in this audition at seven o'clock.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: So it's like all of these different areas, and like you said, you know, the the industry is so small, you just never know what's gonna happen, and you never know where you're gonna see that person again.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, maintaining consistency in your reputation and your behaviors and your talent in all of those areas is so important to ensure that you have longevity, especially even after you finish dancing and you want to venture into other artistic practices, you know, maintaining that work ethic is just is yeah, I don't even know how what words to say to say how important that is.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: It's just so important.
35:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, and letting people know what you do well, you know, because people, I think so many people in the industry get kind of hung up on I have to do everything well, and they attempt to do everything well, but like everybody has their weak points.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: And so, like, find your thing that you do well, make that part of your brand and let people know that that is what you do.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, maybe you can't rely on me to teach clogging, but you can totally rely on me to teach musical theater.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, don't call me up for the clogging class.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: But like, I will show up and give my best for your musical theater class.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite networking things has carried me over the past 12 years.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: My first job working in the city was for onstage dance where as a point shoe fitter and a and a retail dance salesperson.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: The woman who was the block rep at the time is Susie Riefenhauser, who was on our careers podcast uh last season.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Susie met me.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: She came in and was selling the block products to our store.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: She's young, she's fun.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: We like had a nice rapport.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: About two years later, she called me up and she said, Hey, do you want to come work like the sample sale at Block with me?
36:29
SPEAKER_01: Great, cool.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: So I did that, kept in touch with her for another couple of years.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: She was like, Hey, do you want to work at Capezio with me in the corporate world?
36:37
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, you trust me to do that.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Yes, you're always consistent.
36:41
SPEAKER_01: You show up, you know, you know the products inside and out.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: Of course I want you to work with me.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: She got me that job.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: Now she is working at steps as the marketing director.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: And I fully am waiting for her to call me up and be like, Do you want to come work with me at steps?
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Because she just knows what I do and she trusts what I do.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: And like neither one of us, you know, Susie didn't dance, you know, professionally at all.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: But like we're in the world and we know what each other's strengths and weaknesses are.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: So like I'm not calling Susie up to teach a ballet class anymore, but I sure as heck am calling her up if I need a point shoe fitting.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you just have to know what people do well and and present yourself in that way for networking to work the best, I think.
37:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's such great points.
37:22
SPEAKER_03: I mean, and I love what you were saying, Jenny, about like being the person that's now able to give the opportunities to others.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: I think it is the coolest thing.
37:31
SPEAKER_02: I love getting to work with my friends and I love getting to create the communities that you want to be a part of.
37:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do too.
37:38
SPEAKER_03: I and I think that's what's really special.
37:40
SPEAKER_03: And I know that Cece, you're in Atlanta, and I I can't speak for the Atlanta dance scene, but I feel like that's something that is so special about the New York dance scene is that a lot of people are look out for one another and it is a community, and like not saying anything bad about LA, but I've heard it's not really like that as much on the West Coast side of things, and it's a little bit more you only look out for yourself.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: But like in New York, I feel like the dance community is just like, hey, do you need a gig tonight?
38:10
SPEAKER_03: I have a job.
38:10
SPEAKER_03: You want to go make$200?
38:12
SPEAKER_03: You need to pay a rent, right?
38:13
SPEAKER_03: Hey.
38:13
SPEAKER_03: Or and then I think the other important thing to remember, and I think what helped me learn how to network when I was young and clueless when I first broke into the industry was I just tried to do as much as possible.
38:25
SPEAKER_03: Like I was taking as many classes as I could, I was going to as many auditions as I could.
38:30
SPEAKER_03: I would say yes to jobs that paid me no money because I wanted to build my resume, but also network at the same time.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: Like there's going to be a lot of opportunities that will come your way that that seem like a really good opportunity.
38:44
SPEAKER_03: And if it's with the right people, it might be, even though you're not getting great compensation or whatever it is, you never know what networking in that job will lead to next.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: And that's it's kind of hard to juggle.
38:59
SPEAKER_03: Like as I've gotten older throughout my dance career, I've started getting a little bit pickier with some of those types of jobs.
39:05
SPEAKER_03: But when I was young, I knew I needed to make connections.
39:10
SPEAKER_03: And the only way that, like, I would go to every audition possible in hopes that that choreographer would notice me.
39:16
SPEAKER_03: And maybe I'll get invited to another audition by the choreographer.
39:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's how it works.
39:20
SPEAKER_03: Even with casting directors, they see you once, they put you in their file, they call you up for the next audition that you know comes along.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: That's the only way.
39:29
SPEAKER_03: And that's networking.
39:30
SPEAKER_03: Like just knowing the right people, being in the right place, really putting yourself out there.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: But again, knowing that knowing how to do it, especially direct people without coming across as too pushy is important to remember.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: So let's shift back to like middle school, high schoolers, and how as teachers can we help kids at that age become more comfortable networking?
39:54
SPEAKER_01: And I guess I'm wondering, you know, how much they can really help.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Is this more of a personal thing?
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Like you yourself as an individual need to have the wherewithal to go do it, or is there any kind of assistance in any way that the dance teachers and studio owners can have?
40:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, I do think that the best thing for teachers is to lead by example, obviously, the stronger skills that you can show that, okay, if I can work with this studio and this, or if I bring in this choreographer for this, and I introduce my students to allowing them to train with other people and create those environments.
40:28
SPEAKER_02: Like I know that my hometown studio owner brings in like an in-house convention every single year.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: And then from there, like those choreographers who know the dancers from my studio, sometimes they'll go and do intensives or assist them on other tours.
40:41
SPEAKER_02: And so there are ways as a dance educator that you can introduce that into a dance school curriculum without directly having the dancer shake hands with someone else.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree with that.
40:53
SPEAKER_00: Having those in studio uh sessions and moments with these types of people is really, really um key to the educational aspect of networking for younger dancers.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I think is really cool is when an educator can not only bring in movement artists, but also bring in representatives of agencies, representatives of advertising agencies, um, casting directors, so it can be a sit-down, you know, lecture-based conversation and also making it inclusive where the parents can join in because a lot of the questions are actually gonna come from the parents to really be able to have that, you know, conversation across the table to see, you know, what am I preparing my child for?
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Is this something that we really want to invest into?
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Is there gonna be a return on the investment?
41:41
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, yes, it's definitely about the dance aspect of it and being in the studio with these choreographers and dancing and all of that stuff is great.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: But it's also, you know, the networking aspect of it, having the understanding of what it means to be a dancer, having the understanding of how to be a professional, you know, just the business piece of it in terms of branding, styling, photography, now, you know, digital marketing, different things like that.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, no, I totally agree with Jenny in terms of, you know, having the in-studio conventions.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: That's another great thing, especially for those middle and high school students.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think going along with that, like if you're a studio who doesn't so obviously I feel like most studios who listen to this, most people that listen to this are involved with the competitive dance world, obviously.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: But there's also a lot of performance opportunities that studios can take advantage of that I think some don't in terms of like local festivals and things like that, like not only networking with people in the dance community, but networking with people in the community, you know, like and if you're thinking about being a dance teacher, as if you're a student thinking about going to college or moving forward, like, you know, the dance studios have to be involved in their community to be able to get business.
42:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, word of mouth is still a big way that studios get business.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that is shaking hands with the salon owner next door and saying, Hey, could I put up a flyer in your in your business?
43:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, we can cross-promote each other.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: Like that's networking.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to be just with another choreographer or just with another teacher.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: Like, get involved in the community.
43:15
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
43:16
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love all that.
43:17
SPEAKER_03: And as I was sitting here listening to to everyone and thinking of networking again in general, I just think that networking is hard to do.
43:28
SPEAKER_03: It's definitely marketing, which we've kind of, Cece, you've mentioned, like, you know, knowing who you are and how to how to style, how to brand yourself.
43:35
SPEAKER_03: Like that all goes hand in hand with marketing.
43:37
SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you want to be a professional dancer or if you want to be a professional anything, you're going to college, take a marketing class.
43:45
SPEAKER_03: I think that type of class will help you learn even more about how to approach this in and put that into your career.
43:53
SPEAKER_03: But the other thing to think about, and I do think that as dancers, we are individuals.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: And we are selling a product, our dance career.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: We're selling our dancing and hoping that people take buy our dancing, we audition our dancing and people buy it, they cast us, and whatever it is, we're performing as a dancer.
44:13
SPEAKER_03: Networking is a huge part of any dance journey.
44:19
SPEAKER_03: You kind of have to have networking in your dance journey if you want to progress and succeed.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of people that are probably listening that are like, oh, this sounds so stressful.
44:30
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to network.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to do that.
44:33
SPEAKER_03: Like, this is what I really have to do to make it.
44:36
SPEAKER_03: And in a weird way, yeah.
44:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I it is.
44:39
SPEAKER_03: Because if you don't, then you're gonna miss a lot of opportunities.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: A closed mouth does not get fed.
44:47
unknown: Yes.
44:48
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
44:49
SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's it's hard, but and I think that's that's what's tricky about it, about people.
44:55
SPEAKER_03: I know a lot of dancers say, I want to be a professional.
44:58
SPEAKER_03: Then they get into the the grind or they see what the grind is, and then you're like, I don't want to be a professional.
45:05
SPEAKER_03: Because it's not even just the rejection of auditions, but then it's also the hustle and grind of trying to keep yourself relevant and be in the front and center and remembered all the time.
45:17
SPEAKER_03: And it it's a lot, like it's of and it not everyone's cut out for it, but it is something you can learn to do and learn to love.
45:25
SPEAKER_03: I love networking, and then I love being on the other side, giving the jobs, giving the opportunities.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: That really is the best part of it.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: Like it does, it doesn't feel great to just sort of you feel like you're just asking all the time.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
45:38
SPEAKER_01: And like once you can get to a point to be able to offer, like that's like the pinnacle I think of networking is when you finally come into a position after your years of grinding and struggling and hardship, but like, okay, I could give something to somebody that's beneficial to them.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: And like you said, Jenny, like it's no skin off my nose to give you a job.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
45:57
SPEAKER_01: Like there's no scarcity aspect at that point.
45:59
SPEAKER_02: The coolest feeling is like when you can show someone else that I mean, ultimately we all want to do the same thing.
46:05
SPEAKER_02: We all want to create entertainment and create art and being able to share that, especially with someone who you want to champion.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, I get more from getting people jobs than I most of the time I get from even booking something myself.
46:19
SPEAKER_02: I just think that it's so cool.
46:20
SPEAKER_02: Like once you can find yourself in that position that go you.
46:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:25
SPEAKER_03: But there's also a lot of people that don't have that same mentality that are also in the dance world, that can't, that don't think about the others, right?
46:33
SPEAKER_03: That are thinking just looking out for themselves.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: Like when those are the people I don't recommend for things.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
46:39
SPEAKER_03: Those, I mean, sad to say it, but like those are the people that like sorry about it.
46:44
SPEAKER_03: Like, there have been many, many, many times in this industry where I've helped out somebody and hope that I get the favor returned, and it never does, type of thing.
46:55
SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of like okay, not gonna recommend them for something because not that I expected something out, but at least like, hey, remember that I did this free project for you and like worked for 12 hours for no money, and you can't even get me in the room for an audition, like you know, something as simple as that.
47:17
SPEAKER_03: It's just like making sure that I think that's that's the hard part, and the and sometimes the frustrating part about networking because sometimes you put the work in and sometimes nothing comes out of it, and you're like, Okay, well, I just there's so many jobs I've taken as a professional where I just took them to network and thinking it will lead to something and it never does, and it's just like wah wah, okay, moving on to the you win some, you lose some.
47:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but more oftentimes than not, at somebody in that job there was something worth it, like whether it was a resume gain or whether it was a different networking opportunity, maybe not the one I wanted, but something else.
47:56
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, keep keep your hopes up and knowing the good people too, you know, kind of like what you said, Leslie.
48:04
SPEAKER_03: I'm not giving that person a job, like type of thing.
48:06
SPEAKER_03: I mean, know your circle, know know you who you can rely on because it's going if you do referral anyone or uh recommend it comes back on you if it ends ends up being bad.
48:18
SPEAKER_03: And you never want that to happen.
48:21
SPEAKER_03: But I'm thinking, I'm trying to think of any personal uh stories as far as how networking has gotten me somewhere.
48:30
SPEAKER_03: I do, I feel like even at least right now recently, I teach on a dance convention called Revel.
48:36
SPEAKER_03: And I over the pandemic, one of our like assistants, she's a rock star.
48:41
SPEAKER_03: Like like she has like the brain.
48:43
SPEAKER_03: I don't know how she learned so much choreography in every single weekend, and she like picks it up so fast, and she's just so amazing.
48:50
SPEAKER_03: And I recommended her for a job over the pandemic or at least an audition for a job.
48:56
SPEAKER_03: And it's like I don't have to do that.
48:58
SPEAKER_03: Like, I I sent my agent, hey, this person would be great.
49:01
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's the type of stuff, Jenny, that you're talking about where it's like it just feels good, but like she didn't know that I recommended her.
49:07
SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, reached out, hey, do you wanna do you wanna be considered for this?
49:10
SPEAKER_03: Hey, they're looking for somebody exactly like you.
49:12
SPEAKER_03: Like, you never know in the industry when someone's gonna think of you and recommend you, hopefully in a good way.
49:19
SPEAKER_03: You know, they might think of you and be like, no, maybe not.
49:22
SPEAKER_03: But they might think of you and be like, oh yeah, Jenny be perfect for that.
49:26
SPEAKER_03: I'm totally gonna submit her for that commercial.
49:28
SPEAKER_03: Like, that's what you want at the end of the day is people remembering you and hand selecting you and recommending you at any point for anything.
49:39
SPEAKER_03: But I love what you said, Leslie.
49:40
SPEAKER_03: Like, know how to brand yourself in the right way and know how to show off your strength so you're not getting asked to teach clogging classes.
49:49
SPEAKER_03: Right.
49:51
SPEAKER_01: That would be you know, and then at some point, like if you're so young and you're so you just you want to please people and you'd be like, I can totally teach clogging, and then you look at a YouTube video and you're like, maybe I can figure this out.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, don't be that person.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, like again, I think I think the key to networking, and I think maybe just the key to being a good human being, is like show up as your best self wherever you go, because you never know who's gonna be there and who you may encounter at another time who could help you or you could help them, you know.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: Just like show up at your best that way that so that everybody, you know, that's how you show up in the world.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's how we all hope to be.
50:26
SPEAKER_03: Hopefully, a lot of parents are listening to this.
50:28
SPEAKER_03: I think something that actually, now that before we wrap up are that we didn't really talk about is parents.
50:34
SPEAKER_03: Hey, dance parents, love y'all, love y'all.
50:37
SPEAKER_03: But we also know that a lot of the dance parents are the ones that are kind of like controlling their dancers' careers until they're adults and monitoring their social medias and things like that.
50:50
SPEAKER_03: I think definitely parents listen to this one and keep in mind some of the things that we said as far as how to approach the networking in the right way, especially in this digital world that we're living in.
51:05
SPEAKER_03: Because I think that a lot of parents are probably like, oh, well, I gotta make sure that my dancers I post every single day and I I reach out to the choreographers and I do this and I do that.
51:14
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, yeah, but make sure it doesn't, it doesn't get too pushy.
51:19
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
51:20
SPEAKER_03: I think I'm gonna go keep going back to that.
51:22
SPEAKER_03: We wanna make sure that there's that fine line that we're walking.
51:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think CeC nailed it with like the tagging of if you take someone's class, like tag it, they'll get to see it, but it won't necessarily be flooding your inbox with message, message, mess message, message.
51:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's such great advice.
51:37
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
51:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
51:38
SPEAKER_03: Especially, I mean, Cece, does your daughter dance?
51:41
SPEAKER_00: She broke my heart and decided not to dance.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: But she does gymnastics.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:49
SPEAKER_03: So do you feel that pressure as a gymnastics mom to like run her gymnastics social media career life?
51:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, in a way, yes, I do, but I am very much keen or I desire to ensure she just has a childhood and it's not inundated and stressful in that arena.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I say this is because I really want to make sure if she wants to go down this road, because she's done commercials and she's done, you know, some really fun things, that is something that she wants to do.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: So it becomes self-motivated so that I don't have to like pressure her or push her to do something she doesn't want to do.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, right now she's crazy about creating her own YouTube page.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: And the more I keep hearing her say that, I'm like, hey, I will literally fund anything that you want to do, but I have to see that you want to do it.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: If I see that you are being um, you know, self-initiating and doing what you need to do to practice and you know getting your content and all of that stuff, I'll do it.
52:53
SPEAKER_00: I'll back you completely 100%, no worries.
52:57
SPEAKER_00: But I've just I just always want to make sure it's coming, you know, it's coming from a pure place, and I'm not forcing her into it because then it can turn into something else, and we don't want that.
53:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's wonderful advice, I think, for so many parents to hear because I I'm sure a lot of parents feel the same way, and then you know, there there may be parents that really want a dance career for their child, and they're pushing it on their dancer, but as their dancer gets older, maybe that's not what the dancer wants.
53:29
SPEAKER_03: I mean, really, really make sure that everyone I remember witnessing it from dancers I grew up alongside and seeing like the pressure of their parents on them at the dance studio, and then them going on into their adulthood and end up quitting dance because that pressure was just they you know from their parent too much, it made them fall out of love with dance.
53:52
SPEAKER_03: So, but I can't I I really feel for everybody growing up in this social media world because it's just a whole nother beast, it's just a whole nother layer to the art life as it is stuff.
54:04
SPEAKER_03: I agree.
54:05
SPEAKER_03: Dance life is tough now.
54:06
SPEAKER_03: We gotta market ourselves on social media too, right?
54:10
SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, so many things.
54:12
SPEAKER_03: I agree, but thank you for shedding some light and sharing that perspective from the mom side of things, CeC.
54:19
SPEAKER_03: That's so helpful because a lot of our listeners are dance parents on the pod.
54:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
54:25
SPEAKER_03: Well, y'all, this was great.
54:27
SPEAKER_03: I hope everybody loved listening and learning more about networking in the dance world, in the competitive dance world.
54:35
SPEAKER_03: Shout out to our special guests, Jenny and CeCe, for joining us on the podcast tonight and sharing all their experiences and their wisdom and knowledge from their careers.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: And the way we have our guests lead us out is by sharing one final thought about networking with our listeners.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: Ready, set, go.
54:57
SPEAKER_02: Be you, be present, be grateful, do the work, and don't be afraid to ask for what you want.
55:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: Believe in yourself, trust your talent, know that you have what it takes, transition that into consistency, work ethic, and reputation.
55:18
SPEAKER_03: Thanks for tuning in and joining us for this week's episode All About Networking.
55:23
SPEAKER_03: We'd love to give our special guest IBA judges a shout-out.
55:27
SPEAKER_03: And thank you for joining us on the pod.
55:30
SPEAKER_03: Be sure to follow them on Instagram.
55:32
SPEAKER_03: You can find Jenny at Jenny Owine and Pepsi at PC Tell.
55:38
SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcast, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you look for the podcast.
55:47
SPEAKER_03: Be sure to check out IBA affiliated competition, Diva Dance Competition.
55:53
SPEAKER_03: Diva Dance Competition is America's live judging competition.
55:57
SPEAKER_03: Their live judging format is extremely unique in the industry.
56:01
SPEAKER_03: Dancers are asked to stay on stage following their routine.
56:04
SPEAKER_03: Each of the judges, provided exclusively by Impact Dance Adjudicators, will provide immediate feedback live over the microphone.
56:12
SPEAKER_03: This format allows for a very personalized and educational experience, where the dancers are able to apply their critiques immediately to their next routines, with the purpose of improving as the day goes on.
56:23
SPEAKER_03: Something else that makes Diva different is that they are a competition with the cause.
56:27
SPEAKER_03: Diva was born as a way to raise awareness for the TV LS Foundation, a rare genetic syndrome that Jack, one of the owner's sons, was born with.
56:36
SPEAKER_03: Jack was the inspiration for Diva, and you may be lucky enough to meet him at one of their upcoming events.
56:42
SPEAKER_03: And last but not least, Diva provides all routine photos and videos absolutely free.
56:48
SPEAKER_03: For more information on Diva Dance Competition, head to their website now to register for an upcoming event in their 2022 season at divaComp.com.
56:59
SPEAKER_01: Season three is underway with some excellent episodes coming your way.
57:02
SPEAKER_01: Stay tuned for the December edition of QA with Courtney, recreational versus competitive dance, and Latin Ballroom in the competitive dance world.
57:10
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much to all of our listeners who keep tuning in week after week to Making an Impact.
57:16
SPEAKER_03: We'll see you next week.
57:17
SPEAKER_03: Until then, keep dancing.