Latest / How To Protect The Ocean / Defunding Science Due To DEI: What It Means for Canada
Transcript
- 1:00:00This episode is a rant.
- 1:00:01And it's a rant about defunding science
- 1:00:05due to DEI programs.
- 1:00:08We have a Canadian election going on,
- 1:00:10a federal Canadian
- 1:00:10election going on here in Canada.
- 1:00:13And there's been talk
- 1:00:14on the conservative side
- 1:00:15about defunding programs
- 1:00:17within Canadian context
- 1:00:20like funding agencies that
- 1:00:22have to do with DEI programs.
- 1:00:25This is not good for science.
- 1:00:27This is not good for
- 1:00:29elevating communities
- 1:00:30that need to be elevated
- 1:00:31and making science better
- 1:00:33here in Canada.
- 1:00:34We're going to talk
- 1:00:35about that on today's episode
- 1:00:36of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
- 1:00:38Let's start the show.
- 1:00:44Hey everybody, welcome back
- 1:00:44to another exciting episode
- 1:00:45of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
- 1:00:47I am your host, Andrew Lewin.
- 1:00:48And this is the podcast where we find out
- 1:00:49what's happening with the ocean,
- 1:00:50how you can speak up for the ocean,
- 1:00:52and what you can do to
- 1:00:53live for a better ocean
- 1:00:54by taking action.
- 1:00:56Now in today's episode, we're going to be
- 1:00:57talking about politics.
- 1:00:59Politics and science to be specific,
- 1:01:01and also looking at DEI programs.
- 1:01:04This is not going to be
- 1:01:05like a hugely political post,
- 1:01:07but there is a Canadian
- 1:01:08federal election that's going on.
- 1:01:10And one of the parties, the
- 1:01:11conservative party leader,
- 1:01:12Pierre Poliev came out last week
- 1:01:15talking about defunding science,
- 1:01:19I guess projects and science grants
- 1:01:21based on DEI initiatives.
- 1:01:23This is scary to me because I don't know
- 1:01:26if it's trying to end
- 1:01:27quote unquote woke ism,
- 1:01:29or if it's just trying to use that as an
- 1:01:31excuse to defund science.
- 1:01:33Either way, both is bad.
- 1:01:35And we're going to talk
- 1:01:35about why that's bad today.
- 1:01:37And we're going to be talking about also
- 1:01:39how Canada can separate itself
- 1:01:42from our neighbors down south in terms of
- 1:01:45their thought process.
- 1:01:46I've always felt that Canada as a
- 1:01:48Canadian growing up here in Canada,
- 1:01:50we have really changed our tune in terms,
- 1:01:53especially when it comes to human rights.
- 1:01:54We voted on the approval and the
- 1:01:59institution of marriage for LGBTQ plus
- 1:02:02people a long time ago.
- 1:02:04Unfortunately, that's come back and we
- 1:02:06see a lot of hateful things
- 1:02:08said against LGBTQ community.
- 1:02:11We're also seeing, we've seen the
- 1:02:12advancement of DEI
- 1:02:15initiatives within this country,
- 1:02:17although it's not perfect by any means,
- 1:02:19but we've seen that advancement.
- 1:02:20And now we're starting to see the talk of
- 1:02:23woke ism and being woke and DEI all being
- 1:02:26lumped in the middle as a bad thing,
- 1:02:29you know, where it's which I find really
- 1:02:31crazy because all it's trying to do is
- 1:02:33put everybody on the same plane by
- 1:02:36lifting up communities that haven't been
- 1:02:39lifted up before or haven't had the
- 1:02:41chance or the
- 1:02:42opportunity to be lifted up before.
- 1:02:44So it's it's putting everybody on a
- 1:02:46similar plane by a similar plane by like
- 1:02:48just basically lifting this up.
- 1:02:50This episode is going
- 1:02:51to be a bit of a rant.
- 1:02:53It's not going to be edited.
- 1:02:54I'm putting this out last minute.
- 1:02:55I had an episode.
- 1:02:56Truthfully, I had an episode already
- 1:02:58planned about the U.S.
- 1:02:59and their energy policy that's coming out
- 1:03:01about rolling back, you know, policies
- 1:03:04and regulations and laws so that they can
- 1:03:07really put forward on drilling oil and
- 1:03:09gas and lessening the green energy like
- 1:03:13wind power offshore.
- 1:03:15Not fun, but where you'll you'll hear
- 1:03:16that on Wednesday because today I wanted
- 1:03:18to talk about this dei initiative and
- 1:03:20defunding science that have dei policies.
- 1:03:25It within the federal government that
- 1:03:26federal government kind of put together,
- 1:03:27which is a lot of academic and a lot of
- 1:03:30nonprofit organizations that are working
- 1:03:32on not only oceans, but just nature in
- 1:03:34general and wildlife biology and
- 1:03:36conservation biology in general as law as
- 1:03:39well as medical and all
- 1:03:40social science and so forth.
- 1:03:41There's a lot of science that gets funded
- 1:03:42through these programs, but we need to
- 1:03:46talk about today because the party that
- 1:03:48could be as like the party in power for
- 1:03:51Canada is the conservative party is
- 1:03:54putting together this.
- 1:03:55They've proposed this plan to defund
- 1:03:57science based on whether that
- 1:04:00program has a dei initiative.
- 1:04:03Essentially, that's
- 1:04:04essentially what they want to do.
- 1:04:05One of the things that they want to do
- 1:04:06and it's not the I hate to say it, but
- 1:04:08it's not the biggest issue that's in the
- 1:04:11the overall issues like the economy,
- 1:04:14tariffs, sovereignty of Canada, you know,
- 1:04:17the fact that we want our independence on
- 1:04:18oil and gas that we're not
- 1:04:20just selling it to the US.
- 1:04:21There's a lot of stuff that's happening
- 1:04:22in Canada and this as well as the
- 1:04:24environment unfortunately does not get
- 1:04:27the attention that it deserves.
- 1:04:29It may not be what everybody wants to
- 1:04:32talk about or vote on when
- 1:04:35we're looking at this election.
- 1:04:36However, this is important to me is
- 1:04:38important to the people who are in Canada
- 1:04:40who listen to this podcast and I want to
- 1:04:43make it clear about what they want to do
- 1:04:46what the conservative party have proposed
- 1:04:48to do because I feel like today is the
- 1:04:50day, you know, where
- 1:04:51it's the last day to vote.
- 1:04:52You know, you got to put in your vote.
- 1:04:54Everybody go vote doesn't matter who you
- 1:04:55vote for, but everybody go vote.
- 1:04:57But understand what this party wants to
- 1:05:00do to our scientific grant and funding
- 1:05:03agencies and what it's going to limit and
- 1:05:05how bad that's going to be.
- 1:05:07So first off, you know, Pierre Poliev,
- 1:05:09who's the leader of the Canadian
- 1:05:10Conservative Party, has led, has pledged
- 1:05:13to eliminate what he terms as woke
- 1:05:15ideology from the federal research
- 1:05:17funding, particularly targeting policies
- 1:05:20related to equity, diversity and
- 1:05:22inclusion, EDI or DEI as many people
- 1:05:24refer to in science and academia.
- 1:05:27So this stance has raised concerns among
- 1:05:29academic institutions and researchers who
- 1:05:32emphasize the importance of DEI in
- 1:05:34fostering inclusion and innovative
- 1:05:36research environments.
- 1:05:38So this is what's essentially happened in
- 1:05:40the past before the initiatives happen.
- 1:05:43There is a big push and a lot of demand
- 1:05:47for making sure that granting agencies
- 1:05:50and funding agencies from the federal
- 1:05:52government would disperse the money
- 1:05:55equally through like a DEI initiatives,
- 1:05:58essentially making sure that the money
- 1:05:59went to a diverse, make sure that it was
- 1:06:03equal and there was equity in the
- 1:06:06distribution of the funds as well as it
- 1:06:09makes sure it's inclusive to everybody.
- 1:06:10So it's not just people who look like me
- 1:06:12who are getting these funds, which was
- 1:06:14happening, whether we like it or not,
- 1:06:16that was happening back in the 70s, 80s,
- 1:06:18probably even before that 70, 90s, 2000s.
- 1:06:20It's still probably happening today.
- 1:06:23And so what the federal government did
- 1:06:24was put in these DEI initiatives so that
- 1:06:27programs that were applying this, so
- 1:06:29whether it be academic or whether it be
- 1:06:31nonprofit or any kind of non governmental
- 1:06:32organizations, if they wanted to get
- 1:06:35access to this funding, they had to prove
- 1:06:37that they're following DEI policies.
- 1:06:40So that they had DEI policies that they
- 1:06:42would follow and they had to prove that
- 1:06:43they were doing this.
- 1:06:44Now, this doesn't mean that only grants
- 1:06:46went to minorities or people of color or
- 1:06:48people in sort of marginalized
- 1:06:50communities, whether it be gender
- 1:06:52communities or whether it be cultural
- 1:06:54communities or race communities.
- 1:06:56It didn't it didn't matter is everybody
- 1:06:57was on the same playing field, right?
- 1:07:00And even though, you know, the science
- 1:07:03was still great and everything was great.
- 1:07:05They wanted to make sure that it was
- 1:07:06still on the same playing field.
- 1:07:08And that's great. It
- 1:07:09really worked out great.
- 1:07:11So essentially what happened is the
- 1:07:13federal grants incorporating DEI
- 1:07:15policies, they had several major funding
- 1:07:18programs administered by Canada's
- 1:07:19tri-agency, which is comprising of NSERC,
- 1:07:23SHRC, which is social sciences and NSERC
- 1:07:25is natural sciences.
- 1:07:26And then there's CIHR, which to be
- 1:07:28honest, I'm not too sure what it was, but
- 1:07:30I think it has to do more with health, I
- 1:07:32think is more where it comes from.
- 1:07:34But then they had to have integrated DEI
- 1:07:37considerations into their frameworks.
- 1:07:39They had to have equity, diversity and
- 1:07:40inclusion, institutional
- 1:07:41capacity building grant.
- 1:07:43So that was one of the grants.
- 1:07:44They aims to identify and eliminate
- 1:07:46systemic barriers that impede the career
- 1:07:50advancement of
- 1:07:50underrepresented groups in academia.
- 1:07:53New Frontiers Research Fund and FRF
- 1:07:56requires applicants to demonstrate a
- 1:07:58commitment to DEI in their research
- 1:08:00practice and team compositions.
- 1:08:02Canada's excellence research here.
- 1:08:05So these are research chairs that are
- 1:08:06like heads of departments, essentially
- 1:08:08looking at in academia.
- 1:08:11And this is NSERC and I think two more,
- 1:08:14two more different ones.
- 1:08:16I can't remember now, but mandates
- 1:08:18institutions to maintain up to date
- 1:08:22equity plans and promote diversity in
- 1:08:24research leadership.
- 1:08:26And then the Vanier Canada Graduate
- 1:08:28Scholarships and Banting Postdoctoral
- 1:08:29Fellowships include DEI considerations in
- 1:08:32their selection criteria
- 1:08:33to attract diverse talent.
- 1:08:35So these programs reflect a broader
- 1:08:37governmental commitment to fostering
- 1:08:39inclusive research environments that
- 1:08:41leverage diverse perspectives to enhance
- 1:08:44scientific inquiry and innovation.
- 1:08:47So here's the thing.
- 1:08:49When you look at science, when you look
- 1:08:50at nature, and I've said this a number of
- 1:08:51times, diversity matters, right?
- 1:08:53The fact that if you have a diverse
- 1:08:55environment, I'd say a marine habitat, if
- 1:08:58it was diverse, if it had coral reefs, it
- 1:09:00had seagrasses, if it had mangroves, it
- 1:09:02made it a stronger environment because
- 1:09:05all those habitats contribute to not only
- 1:09:07diversity of species by having a habitat
- 1:09:09that can house all these types of diverse
- 1:09:12species, but it also like if one of those
- 1:09:15species is gone of the
- 1:09:17same like functional group.
- 1:09:19So say they're like reef builders, then
- 1:09:21you know that there's if there's multiple
- 1:09:23species within that same functional
- 1:09:24group, you know, if one species is
- 1:09:26extirpated, so is gone from that area for
- 1:09:28whatever reason, there are others that
- 1:09:30can do still the same function.
- 1:09:32Right. But if you only had one species in
- 1:09:33that functional group, and that species
- 1:09:35disappears from that habitat, then that
- 1:09:37function is gone. And that could affect
- 1:09:39the entire dynamic of the marine habitat.
- 1:09:42So diversity in nature is important,
- 1:09:44you're looking even from genetic
- 1:09:45diversity, if you have a species that's
- 1:09:48in that's endangered, and you have you
- 1:09:51preserve a number of the different
- 1:09:53genetics of the diversity of genetics, so
- 1:09:55a number of different genetic makeup, you
- 1:09:57know that if you ever have to repopulate
- 1:09:59that population, you know that if you
- 1:10:01have a diverse set of genes in each
- 1:10:04species or each population, then that
- 1:10:06diversity will will survive longer
- 1:10:09because just the process of natural science,
- 1:10:10just the process of natural selection,
- 1:10:12one particular set of genes could survive
- 1:10:15better than another particular set of
- 1:10:16genes. And so having those sets of genes
- 1:10:18work together and be able to say which of
- 1:10:22the populations are going to survive
- 1:10:24based on a genetic diversity, that's
- 1:10:26really important. So we have proof that
- 1:10:29genetic diversity, just diversity in
- 1:10:31general, from a species, from a genetic
- 1:10:34level, from a species level, from a
- 1:10:35habitat level, from an ecosystem level,
- 1:10:37makes the environment stronger.
- 1:10:40It makes it stronger. So remember that.
- 1:10:42Now when you're talking about a team, a
- 1:10:45team makes it stronger, like if diversity
- 1:10:47makes and inclusion, making sure
- 1:10:49everybody's included, make sure that
- 1:10:51everything is stronger. Take football, I
- 1:10:55love football, draft is on as I'm
- 1:10:57recording this, it's great to see all
- 1:10:59these different positions really matter.
- 1:11:03If you have a strong O line, an offensive
- 1:11:07line, your offense is going to be great.
- 1:11:09If you have great receivers, your offense
- 1:11:11is going to be great. If you and your
- 1:11:14quarterback is going to be great because
- 1:11:15you have a great offensive line. They
- 1:11:16allow for the quarterback to have the
- 1:11:19time to decide which
- 1:11:20receiver to throw to.
- 1:11:22If you don't have a good offensive line,
- 1:11:24defensive lines comes in, they sack the
- 1:11:26quarterback, you can't throw, you don't
- 1:11:27have, you basically have a crappy
- 1:11:29offense. You don't want a crappy offense.
- 1:11:31But having each or one of those groups be
- 1:11:34good or be solid, right? And having a
- 1:11:37diverse set of good, strong positions and
- 1:11:42positional groups, you are
- 1:11:43going to have a better team.
- 1:11:45But if you don't have those strong
- 1:11:46positional groups or you're missing a
- 1:11:48positional group, you're not very good.
- 1:11:51Case in point, a couple years ago, my San
- 1:11:53Francisco 49ers were in the NFC
- 1:11:55Championship playing the Philadelphia
- 1:11:57Eagles. The winner goes on to play Kansas
- 1:11:59City Chiefs for the second time in a row
- 1:12:01for the Niners. Niners had
- 1:12:02just gotten to the Super Bowl.
- 1:12:04Okay, so now they're going against a
- 1:12:06great team. They're a great team. They
- 1:12:08lose their quarterback in the first
- 1:12:11quarter, second quarter. Lose him. He
- 1:12:13can't throw anymore. He can only run. And
- 1:12:17even then, he's hurting. His arm is UCL
- 1:12:19is basically torn. Can't throw far, can't
- 1:12:21throw it all. They don't have another
- 1:12:23quarterback because all their
- 1:12:24quarterback's got to do.
- 1:12:25One more quarterback, he goes in, he gets
- 1:12:26a concussion, he's out of the game. They
- 1:12:28don't have any more quarterbacks. They
- 1:12:29have to use their running back as a
- 1:12:30quarterback. And all they do is run the
- 1:12:32ball. They can't run and throw because
- 1:12:34they don't have the quarterback. They're
- 1:12:35losing that diversity.
- 1:12:37Right? They lost that positional group
- 1:12:38that actually makes it matter. I'm taking
- 1:12:40this analogy way too far. Draft is on
- 1:12:42really hot in my head. But you get the
- 1:12:44point. The point is that diversity,
- 1:12:48making sure that everybody's included,
- 1:12:49making sure that everything
- 1:12:50is like the equity is there.
- 1:12:53Everybody's on the same page. You get a
- 1:12:56stronger team. You get a stronger science
- 1:13:00team. You get a stronger lab. You get
- 1:13:02stronger policies and journal articles
- 1:13:05and everything. You're getting people,
- 1:13:07especially when you look at culture and
- 1:13:08you look at gender, you're getting people
- 1:13:10from looking at different sides.
- 1:13:12And especially when you're looking at
- 1:13:13conservation and science, you have to
- 1:13:15have people with different perspectives.
- 1:13:17It challenges the sciences more. And
- 1:13:19having those different perspectives,
- 1:13:21those diverse perspectives, you end up
- 1:13:23having better science because of it.
- 1:13:26It's not just from one culture, one
- 1:13:28gender. It's from everything. So having
- 1:13:30that different group, yes, you may get
- 1:13:32challenged at certain times, but having
- 1:13:34all those different groups, the
- 1:13:35challenging makes it better. Science
- 1:13:36criticisms are what makes things better
- 1:13:38in science. It's what
- 1:13:39science is rooted on.
- 1:13:42And so if you have a team, right, from
- 1:13:44different cultures, different
- 1:13:45backgrounds, working together, the
- 1:13:48science becomes better. It's just how it
- 1:13:50happens. So taking away DEI initiatives
- 1:13:53just because of the word DEI or quote
- 1:13:55unquote woke ideologies takes away the
- 1:13:59strength of the science.
- 1:14:01And it goes back 10, 20, 30, 40 years to
- 1:14:06a time where people who give out the
- 1:14:08grants can show their biases towards
- 1:14:11people who look like me because they
- 1:14:13think that, you know, people like me only
- 1:14:16have the education, only have the ability
- 1:14:17to go forth, which is not true.
- 1:14:20There are so many other people. If you
- 1:14:21look at any university, especially now in
- 1:14:23Canada, it is so diverse. There are so
- 1:14:26many people who are brilliant, who are
- 1:14:27intelligent, who are hardworking, who are
- 1:14:30ready to do conservation, whether it be
- 1:14:32in the marine realm
- 1:14:32or the wildlife realm.
- 1:14:34And they are great scientists and they're
- 1:14:36going to be great scientists, but they
- 1:14:38can't be great scientists if they don't
- 1:14:39get the same opportunity
- 1:14:40as people who look like me.
- 1:14:42That's really what it comes down to. So
- 1:14:44having a platform, a political platform
- 1:14:46where the conservative party who have a
- 1:14:49chance of getting into power, all the
- 1:14:50polls say suggests
- 1:14:51otherwise, but you never know.
- 1:14:53It's going to be a close race. Say that,
- 1:14:56hey, you know what? Like, we're just
- 1:14:58going to take this DEI initiative away.
- 1:15:00We're going to go back to what we were
- 1:15:01doing before because we
- 1:15:02did it better. Now we didn't.
- 1:15:04There's no suggestion that we did things
- 1:15:06better back then when
- 1:15:07we didn't have the ideas.
- 1:15:09But making sure that funding is canceled
- 1:15:12for any DNI initiatives could also cancel
- 1:15:14funding for science in general. We know
- 1:15:16the conservatives are anti climate
- 1:15:18change. We know that they tend
- 1:15:20to be anti environment anyway.
- 1:15:23So it's not going to go towards like
- 1:15:25encircles those natural science types of
- 1:15:27of funding programs or social science
- 1:15:31where you have to include a lot of
- 1:15:33different groups, local groups,
- 1:15:34indigenous groups in this
- 1:15:36process for conservation.
- 1:15:39Who knows better than to take care of
- 1:15:41North America than
- 1:15:42Canada than indigenous people.
- 1:15:45Right. And so, but if we take it away
- 1:15:47where we're not making sure that each
- 1:15:49team in each institution or each
- 1:15:51nonprofit organization or whoever's
- 1:15:52getting that recipient of
- 1:15:54that of that money that funding.
- 1:15:56Now we have nothing, right? We start to
- 1:15:59lose those groups. They're not included
- 1:16:01in those groups. And we start getting
- 1:16:02back into parachute science. We start
- 1:16:04getting back into more
- 1:16:05selfish science and it's not good.
- 1:16:07Collaboration is key. DIs part of that.
- 1:16:10Whether you want to call it D I or not,
- 1:16:11you still have to do it. And there's
- 1:16:12still an opportunity to do that for every
- 1:16:14institution. Right. To say, you know
- 1:16:16what, we're just going to continue our
- 1:16:18programs. We just may
- 1:16:18name it something different.
- 1:16:20But we're going to continue our programs,
- 1:16:21but it takes away from people who may
- 1:16:23have some opportunity. And that's what I
- 1:16:25want to talk about today. So here's
- 1:16:27what's going to happen. Essentially, the
- 1:16:28implications of this proposal is that
- 1:16:30peer poly has proposal to eliminate
- 1:16:31funding tied to any kind of quote unquote
- 1:16:33woke policies has sparked debate within the academic community.
- 1:16:37Critics are quit critics argue that such
- 1:16:40a move could undermine efforts to address
- 1:16:42historical inequities in academia and
- 1:16:45diminish the quality of and relevant of
- 1:16:47Canadian research at the global stage.
- 1:16:50Supporters, however, contend that
- 1:16:51research funding should be allocated
- 1:16:53based solely on scientific merit without
- 1:16:55considerations of identity politics.
- 1:16:57Here's the problem with that. We tried to
- 1:16:59do that before and it didn't work.
- 1:17:01We tried to do that before and we saw
- 1:17:03biases. Hence why we put in these D I
- 1:17:05policies. That's why we're putting it in.
- 1:17:08It wasn't working like that before.
- 1:17:10Everybody's like, well, should be on
- 1:17:11scientific merit. Yes, it should be.
- 1:17:14But when you look at the recipients back
- 1:17:16in the day, we're starting to, we started
- 1:17:18to see the biases. It was all white
- 1:17:20people, white men. We know this is a
- 1:17:22problem. We knew this is a problem. We
- 1:17:24did studies on this. And now you're just
- 1:17:25taking it away because people are sick of
- 1:17:27hearing about welcome D.
- 1:17:28I guess who's sick about it. Yes, guess
- 1:17:31the people who are sick about it. It
- 1:17:32drives me nuts to see this. And yes, I
- 1:17:35agree that some policies go way too far
- 1:17:38to the other extreme. We need to find in
- 1:17:41the middle, but it's should still be on
- 1:17:43scientific merit, but making sure that
- 1:17:44everybody's included.
- 1:17:47Part of the D.I. Make sure it's diverse.
- 1:17:49Make sure it works. Make sure you're
- 1:17:50getting different perspectives. Make sure
- 1:17:52that teams are built based on diversity,
- 1:17:55equity and inclusion.
- 1:17:58That's all I have to say today. And so
- 1:18:00take that in mind if that's something
- 1:18:02that's important to you when you actually
- 1:18:04go and vote today for my
- 1:18:06Canadian audience here.
- 1:18:07Because I think it's important. I'd love
- 1:18:09to hear your thoughts. Let me know in the
- 1:18:11comments below if you're watching this on
- 1:18:12YouTube or hit me up on Instagram at how
- 1:18:15to protect the ocean. That's
- 1:18:16at how to protect the ocean.
- 1:18:18Just DM me or if you want to email me, go
- 1:18:19to speak up for blue dot com. Hit the
- 1:18:21contact page that goes right to fill out
- 1:18:23the form that goes right into my inbox.
- 1:18:26Good luck with the voting. I hope a
- 1:18:29certain party wins. I'm not going to tell
- 1:18:30you who you can kind of tell.
- 1:18:31But regardless, you know, go vote
- 1:18:34exercise your vote to win and let's just
- 1:18:36keep making sure that science is funded
- 1:18:38for everybody, not just for one
- 1:18:40particular person or identity.
- 1:18:43Thank you so much for joining me on
- 1:18:44today's episode of the how to protect the
- 1:18:45ocean podcast. I'm your host, Angelou and
- 1:18:47have a great day. We'll talk to you next
- 1:18:48time and happy conservation.