Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #522 Storms Are Brewing, This Is How You Make Sense of Them: "The Primordial Sacrament", Exploring Marriage, Human Dignity, and Spiritual Battles

Transcript

#522 Storms Are Brewing, This Is How You Make Sense of Them: "The Primordial Sacrament", Exploring Marriage, Human Dignity, and Spiritual Battles · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a production of the John Paul II Renewal Center.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Jack Rigg, your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: St Catherine of Siena said that if you become who you are, that you would literally set the world on fire.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And St Athanasius, an early church father and a doctor of the church, said the son of God became man so that we might become God.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You know I make a wild guess at this, but I bet you, most of us, are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yet Saint John Paul II said there's an echo of the story of this divine life that we're created for, inscribed in each human heart, in your human heart.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: And if you put on the proper lens if I put on the proper lens we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that aha moment.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: See, that's the genus of St John Paul II's theology of the body.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Why were we created male and female?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: How do I find happiness here on earth?
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: How do I find love that satisfies forever?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Hey, glad you're with me.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back for today's episode.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Good to be with you, linda, good to be with you.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: How's Pennsylvania?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Pennsylvania?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: is okay.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: We're going to have some rain coming up from a hurricane down in Florida pretty soon, so batting down the hatches.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty soon, so batten down the hatches, but yeah, yeah it's it's kind of interesting having the east coast influence of weather because I've been used to the midwest, like you, so yeah, yeah, a little different right.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Well, talk about storms.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: You know we're in a spiritual battle, linda amen you know you've got the olympics and went on the mockery of the Last Supper there.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I did a couple of podcasts on that.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: I think they're important podcasts.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: If people haven't heard those, you know you can listen on any podcast app.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Become who you are.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Podcast.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Go on X, we're posted.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: We just started to post a rumble not too long ago.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: You can catch it on rumble, so all those will be in the podcast notes.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: So watch it, listen to it.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: A couple podcasts on that.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I think they're important.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I alluded to the primordial sacrament in at least one of those podcasts.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: That's what we're going to be talking about today.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: If you don't understand the primordial sacrament, if you don't get what we're going to unpack today, you will never understand Catholic teaching.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: All of these things that you're seeing around you today, from the trans movement, the same-sex marriage, the push for abortion, the chance for the most radical person ever to become president of the United States basically a progressive Marxist could and again, I'm not out to just condemn Kamala Harris, because she's just a product of the culture too, and I don't know her background, I don't know how she was brought up.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: So this is not condemning a person.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: But when you allow this to come into the political sphere and come into your own hearts.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: This to come into the political sphere and come into your own hearts, it's your families, your heart becomes dysfunctional.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Babies can be killed.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: We're having babies without sex in IVF and we're having sex without babies in contraception, and we're close to World War III.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, all of this comes out of what we're going to be talking about today.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: So, linda, what is the primordial sacrament?
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: This is John Paul II's work it's number 96, if anybody's following us in man and Woman, he created them.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Theology of the Body, a very important work.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: He presented this on October 6, 1982.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Seems like it was yesterday and the importance of it is as important, or maybe more important, today than it was the day he presented it.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: What is marriage as the primordial sacrament?
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: What does he get into and why is it so important, linda?
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Well, jack, I'll tell you, being the teacher that I am, I went ahead and looked up the word primordial again, because it's one of those words we don't use often and we think we understand it and so essentially it's basic, fundamental is what primordial means.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: So we're talking about the sacrament, basic, fundamental, and this primordial sacrament.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: Pope John Paul took us all the way back to the beginning and the original innocence of time, when we covered that in the first part thoroughly.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but let's just remind people in the beginning, the primordial sacrament means before sin.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Just remind people in the beginning, the primordial sacrament means before sin.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: And so we are on the other side of this boundary, of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So the primordial sacrament, why was it instituted?
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: How was it instituted?
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: And before sin, Linda.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Well, christopher West stressed so many times that if we boil down the entire scripture, it comes down to God wants to marry us, and so this is essentially understanding that the primordial sacrament of marriage, as understood before sin, is that sign that transmits into our visible world that invisible mystery hidden from God in the beginning.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: And to me, jack, it's.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: What is that mystery of God, truth and love and the divine life that he constituted us to participate in, to share in?
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: God wants to marry us.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: That's a great line, linda.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that, because it reminds us that, first, this is about God's plan for an intimacy with us.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: This in the beginning, before sin, pointed directly to our eternal life with God.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: You know, if we just put ourselves in that position that marriage was given to us to participate in, to bring just a little part of that into creation for ourselves, that we could, it's efficacious, that we could actually step into eternal love and life.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: And in the beginning this was very powerful.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: You could just imagine how powerful marriage is today.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: But can you imagine being just filled up with original innocence, original justice, meaning I'm giving back to God all these gifts that he's pouring back on me.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: It's just justice, just right, the way I give myself back to my wife as she gives herself to me, what we do with one another, what we give to one another, it's justice.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: It's original innocence.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: We're innocent, innocence being I'm not just an innocent person, I'm innocent of sin, so that I can be totally filled up with divine life and love and bring this into the world.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Each one of us are created a Mago Dei in the image of God.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Reason, intellect, we have free will, but it's when we enter into this primordial sacrament, this sign, that we're reflecting the inner life of the Trinity, aren't we Linda?
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: And what is so outstanding in Audience 96 here is that all of this takes place in and through Christ and that from the very beginning our redemption was a part of the whole plan.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: It wasn't plan B that, as we are called in and through Christ.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: That's why Ephesians takes on so much significance for Pope John Paul.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Paul was able to do is help us make that connection to that primordial sacrament in the beginning, to it becoming an icon, an image, a sign of the mystery of Christ and his church.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: And, jack, when I studied these, you know it's like I've known this from my original time of studying theology of the body.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: And yet when I review it, it just strikes me all over again the absolute awesomeness of how it's all part of God's plan.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: And if we reject Christ, who the Pope says is the center of the universe and of history, then we're rejecting everything.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: That is the plan that will bring us happiness, will bring truth, goodness and beauty into the world, and that's what we're supposed to be doing through our bodies.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and when we reject it.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: So, people that are listening today, here's secularism.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: And so for those of you who are battling this, you know you're in company, right?
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Every single person, including myself.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: All of us are battling this all the time because we have friends, relatives that have given themselves into.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: What Bishop Athanasius Schneider said in a recent show with us is that the times are unprecedented.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: He said he's a historian, he knows all of the heresies, going back to the first century.
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: But he said every century it seemed there was a new heresy, or multiple heresies, but he said there was only one at a time that we would fight, you know, and so the church would battle this heresy.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: So I asked him, I said what about today?
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: He said it's unprecedented because of moral relativism, secularism.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: You know, there is no truth In essence, there is no objective truth.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: So here's what happens as we're unpacking this primordial sacrament as being a sense perceptible sign, right, that's efficacious, that brings grace into our lives and also is a reflection, at the same time, of the inner life of the Trinity.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: This is what we're receiving in our body.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: When you get this, or let's say, when you don't get this, or it's just my opinion and your opinion?
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Does it surprise anybody that divorce rates go sky high, that we can now kill our own children?
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Not only kill our children, but have the right in law to kill our own children?
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Is there any surprise that we have a trans movement, that a man can become a woman, a woman can become a man?
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Is there anything wrong with same-sex marriage?
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: You know, twisting and distortion of the sign, I would say you know.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Just think about abortion itself.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Right, abortion is Satan's sacraments, you know.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Just like we have life, is God the culture of life bringing in from the very beginning the culture of death and the destruction of a child and a woman?
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Now again, here's what happens when you close off God.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: To anybody listening that knows or has had an abortion.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: We meet people like that all the time.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: We didn't know.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: A lot of times we didn't know we get into circumstances when you reject God, though you don't just reject the rule, so to say, do not kill, right, I mean, we're killing a child here, but you also reject, to your point, linda of Christ coming in as the Redeemer.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: You reject God's mercy, and so that's the predicament we're in.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: So we have all these movements, all these twisting and distortions that I just mentioned, including on top of that war, you know, these crazy COVID vaccines.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Pornography is pervasive, one thing after another right in the culture.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: When I throw out God, I also throw out the chance for me to walk back into the story, to receive God's mercy, for him to give me a new heart, for me to become a person of love again.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: And so there's no sin.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: That Jesus Christ did you know.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: He said I didn't come in to condemn the world.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: I came in to what?
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: To save the world, to save it.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I didn't come in to judge you, condemn you.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: I came in to save you and to Jesus.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: That means an intimate relationship with each of us, as it was in the beginning.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah it was in the beginning.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Jack.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: When we look at our culture and all the things that you know, the litany of things that you mentioned that have gone awry, it's we're thinking about what is most holy.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: If you want to know what is most holy and most special to God, look at what is most profane.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: And when we go through that litany of marriage, our sexuality, our identity of who we are, made in the image of God.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Those are all our human dignity.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: When people talk about human dignity, Linda, that's what they're after, isn't it?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's really what we're talking about.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: You strip me of my human dignity, huh.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Right which comes from God comes from being made in his image and likeness.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: So you can see how Satan kind of figured this out, I believe thinking that how is?
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: he going to get us to turn away?
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: How is he going to have many of us suffer the loss of our souls?
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: It's through this technique of twisting and profaning all that is good, true and beautiful that God gave us.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: And you know, in this audience the Pope talks about that this redemption of Jesus Christ became the main source of man's supernatural endowment.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I'm in paragraph five here, the second paragraph in that section.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Five here, the second paragraph in that section.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: And he said so.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Redemption was to become the source of man's supernatural endowment after sin and, in a certain sense, despite sin.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So that endowment was the fruit of man's election in Christ before the ages.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: So again, endowment you know that's the word we toss around with donating money to the colleges or nonprofit organizations and so forth.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: So I thought well, it's a little bit more than that in the context that the Pope is using it here, but it's still a gift bestowed.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: It's gift, jack, and when we're rejecting all of this, we're rejecting a gift and all we have to do, if we think in everyday terms, of being given a gift.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: If someone gives you a gift that's all wrapped up, what do we do?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: We open it, right, we unwrap it and we see what's inside.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: So what we're doing by all of this is taking that beautifully wrapped gift, that endowment, and tossing it away.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, you can, and we can make analogies of all kinds, but let me just talk about the one we talked about in the beginning.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Here was the mockery of the Last Supper.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I said and it was a pretty stark statement and I meant it is that Satan's sacrament is the killing of a child, right, and of course he would love to distort the Imago Dei, this primordial sacrament, and twist and distort that right.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So man does not get along with woman, etc.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: He loves it when we kill one another.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: He doesn't even care, you know, who wins the war, right, if there's a war going on, he just cares that there's destruction, and there always is right.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: So think about the last supper.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: What was going on at the last supper, linda?
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: What did he?
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: What did christ say?
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: What were his words?
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Do you remember his words at the last supper?
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: this is this is my body, given for you yeah, this is my blood given for you.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: And so think about what's the anti-sign of that, when a person stands up and says what, this is my body, my right, this is my body, this is my right to what To take life?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: So here's the anti-sign.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Is a person standing up and say my body, my right, here's the anti-sign of God who models Jesus Christ, models you know what love should look like and what does he say?
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: He doesn't say that.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: He says this is my body, given for you, given for life, given for redemption, and so this is the mercy.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: We don't want to lose any of us.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: We're all sinners, we're all broken.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: You know, when you talk about abortion, homosexuality, all these things, you know this is just one of many, many sins that are listed.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: You know right.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know God doesn't stop and say okay, we got to talk about life in the womb as the primordial sin.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Same-sex marriage is the primordial sin.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: No, he's got it listed with lying, stealing, drunkenness, one thing after another.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Go back and read St Paul.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: He breaks this all up.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: So don't condemn yourself If you are a sinner and who isn't.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: St John would say you're a liar if you say you're not a sinner.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: We could have all been in your circumstance, we could have all had an abortion, we could have all got divorced.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, look, these are things.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I know how weak I am.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I know that I was on my knees a number of times and I know about Christ's redemption and the reason I can talk about is because I know it.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about anything I don't know, so I needed god's mercy and that is a battle.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: That is a battle because we all came up through this secularism.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: We all came up through this.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: There's no objective truth, right?
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: We threw this all out and many, many lives have been lost.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: All the deception that the Father of Lies played on us, right?
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I like your thinking and talking about the sign and then the anti-sign, when Jesus says this is my body given for you and my blood given for you.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: You know, Jack, I hope this is okay to say this, but I have shared a few times that I had a rough childhood, One of six.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: My mother struggled, you know.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: She had some issues and I can remember sometimes that it must have been like chaos going on, crazy stuff, who knows.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: But I can remember, she kind of would have a breakdown and she would cry and whatever the demands were we were placing on her, I think at that point overwhelmed her and I remember her crying and saying more than once what do you want?
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Do you want my blood?
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: And that struck me in light of this discussion where Christ says this is my body, this is my blood given for you and in a sense, not literally for us, but when we are imitating Christ, which is our call to holiness to do it's almost to that point we give our body and we feel like we're giving our blood, which we know is the life source for us, you know.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: And so all of these, this modernistic, the secularism, really, it's like, not my body given for you, it's what about me?
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: What can?
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I take.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: What can I do for my body?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Given for you, it's what about me?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: What can I take?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: What can I do for my body?
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Do for myself, you know.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: And so, in a, in a very real sense, the huge umbrella is the anti sign of not given for you, but given to me, for me, what I want no, you're exactly right, and so think it's the self to your point.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: It's the self who wants to become God.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: The self is God.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: In fact, that's exactly what secularism is.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: If you want to get down to the nitty gritty of that, there's no objective truth, only my truth.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Well, what does that mean?
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Right the self, me as my own God.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm not out to sacrifice myself for others, I'm out to sacrifice you for me.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: You know, st Augustine would say there's two ways to live your life.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: You know, to love God almost at the point of contempt for yourself.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: In other words, I put God, and if it's a struggle in my heart, then I just say nope, then I'm wrong, it's a contempt for myself.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Or you love yourself to the point of being contemptful of God, to the point of contempt for God.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: We are supposed to love ourselves, but not at contempt for God.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: I have to put God first, and then the love to your earlier point gives me the human dignity that I can love myself in my sins and my brokenness, because I've been redeemed and I've been saved.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And that's a daily battle.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: That's not a one-time.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: And that's a daily battle.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: That's not a one-time.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: You know, I hate to argue on here with my Protestant brothers and sisters, but that's not a one-time deal, my friends.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: It's not a.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: You know, this is a daily struggle, isn't it?
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: And we all know, this if we're paying attention.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, go forth and love others in that gift of self is if I first do love myself and I see myself as accepting of that grace through the redemption.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I can't do it any other way.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: It's just impossible.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: So St Paul says again and I'm just paraphrasing, you know you brought up Ephesians 5, husbands love your wives, wives love your husbands.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: So enter into the sign.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: And he says how, as Christ loves the church, as Christ gave himself away.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So these are linked, intimately linked, because, as John Paul points out so beautifully in here, this sign in addition has its own efficaciousness.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: The sign, this primordial sign, this primordial sacrament, its own efficaciousness, its own grace comes flowing into that.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: People actually understood this.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: When you make love to one another, even in marriage, marital intercourse, sexual intercourse, this is a sacramental sign, this is elevated.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: This sign is elevated and you are filled with grace.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: It's a sacrament.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: A sacrament is a sense-perceptible sign that efficates, that takes in what the sign means to say right, so baptism, you have.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Washing of my sins, you know, you see that with water form and matter, it's a perceptible sign that affects what it signifies.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: So what does primordial sacrament signify?
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: It signifies the inner life of God himself.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: And when you make love to one another, can you imagine when our first children were conceived In that sacramental sign?
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: If we understood that properly, then that grace flows into that union and we are reflecting the inner life of God himself.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Now, this is a battle.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: This is not easy in our broken culture today.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: It's probably never been easy since the fall.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: But when a man and woman understand this, and then they have to be pure of heart.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Their hearts have to be purified.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Because we bring all this baggage into our relationships, so many marriages go wrong because you contracept and you put a barrier in there, right, and you compromise.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: And once you compromise, what happens?
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: When somebody gets pregnant by accident, they say, right, well, you know, you're not having sex by accident, you know, right, you're having sex.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: And then you get pregnant, which means it worked.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: It didn't not work.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: And so now, because you're contraceptive though you didn't expect that to happen and so we have to have abortion as the backup plan.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Abortion is just a contraceptive backup plan, and so we don't really take into consideration that that's a child.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: And when we compromise to that, everything starts to go downhill.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: You know and you see what's happening today.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you said, jack, that lack of understanding of marriage as the primordial sacrament In this audience.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: In paragraph six, towards the end, the Pope says marriage is a sacrament in as much as it is an integral part, and I would say the central point, of the sacrament of creation.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: In this sense it is the primordial sacrament and he says the beginning of the fundamental human community which, by the procreative power given to it, serves to continue the work of creation.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: You know, do we understand that, that God has allowed us to participate in the work of creation when that baby is conceived?
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: To me, we've seen a video of when the sperm penetrates the egg, of that spark.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: It's wild actually yeah.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Isn't it wild?
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: And to me it's the video, the visual, I should say, of what's happening in that act of creation that he's allowed us to participate in.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: This is no accident, you know.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: He creates the soul, yes, and he's allowed us to participate through the bodily function.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Again, what a beautiful gift for our bodies, right?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: And if we could only get that before we get married, you know an understanding of what it's about we could avoid a lot of the difficulties and troubles.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm with you 100%.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: I'm a sinner, like everyone else, and have made my own mistakes, mostly through misunderstandings or lack of understanding.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: And now we all have the chance to get it, you know, to really dig deep and say why are things as bad?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: What's wrong with contraception?
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: What's wrong with abortion?
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Besides the standard, you know, understanding of abortion being murder, it's much deeper than that.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: We are participating in that act of creation, and what a gift, right?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you take those pillars away, that primordial marriage as a sacramental sign, look at the primordial meant again before sin.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: So we know it's after sin, it has to be redeemed.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: If you're not going to Mass, you know.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: If you are not going to confession, if you're not praying together as spouses, you're not going to be able to walk into the story.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: This is not an easy story.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Marriages are not easy on this side of sin, is it?
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: You know original sin, and don't forget there's an enemy out there.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: And here's the point we started with.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: And as we wind down, linda, satan would have nothing better to destroy that sign.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: And you know, st Lucia, the last great battle between our Lord and Satan is over marriage and the family and, of course, by extension, the child that comes out of that union.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: And so this is it.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: We are at the definitive baseline.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: The primordial sacrament is the primordial place where Satan wants to destroy.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: And you saw that right away, genesis 3,.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: First thing they do they hide from God and they put loincloths on.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: And they didn't put the loincloths on their eyes, they put them on their sexual parts, and the reason is because that's where the two become one, become three.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: That's a sacramental sign.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: They hid from God, showing that there's a disconnect from grace and at the same time, I disconnect from God.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I see that we put loincloths on and there's a disconnection between who man is to woman and who woman is to man.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: This is an ongoing battle.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Christ is the one that comes in to restore and give himself to us so that we can actually make love to one another again.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: And if you miss that, abortion will just be an opinion.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Same-sex marriage will just be an opinion.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Trans will just be an opinion.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Queering of the culture will just be an opinion.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Pornography is just an opinion.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Whether I vote Democrat and get a Marxist in the office, it's just an opinion.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: And all these things will take us down.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: It'll take us down.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: There's a day of reckoning coming, linda, unfortunately, and I really don't see it that far off anymore.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I think things have accelerated to the point where I wouldn't be surprised to see some major issues and problems going forward even more than we're experiencing today.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Well, we are moving in that direction and as far as Satan and his whole plan to take us down this primordial sacrament, the Pope talks about being the foundation, really, of the sacramental order.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: So it's like anything else If you pull out the foundation everything will crumble, and so that's been his target all along.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I think we're headed for some very difficult times and yet we had a beautiful homily this Sunday about the theological virtue of hope and I feel like it came at a very good time because on a personal level, a lot of things are starting to look kind of hopeless, and it renewed in me the importance of hope, which is rooted in faith.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: And face it, jack, if we don't have any of that, we're going down.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's no way not to.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but the hope again doesn't mean look, we have to remember, and you're exactly right, without hope we don't have much right?
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Faith is a response to God's love.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Hope is a response that eternal life is being offered to us and he's coming into our lives.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: And, of course, the third one is love itself.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: You know that we become people of love.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: With that said, we are pilgrims here and if you don't understand that we're pilgrims here and we're passing through, that hope is not to make eternal life here.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: That hope is to get to eternal life and hopefully to be able to have a sense of and to be in union and communion with God today, so that we become persons of love now.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: So eternity doesn't mean tomorrow, eternity means forever.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: We are right now eternal beings, just like every child that's conceived, aborted or not is an eternal being.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Just because you took the body of that child, that child is an eternal being.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: You know, we're all going to meet all those children that we've aborted, billions of them at this point.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: They are going to be, in a sense, the innocent ones.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: You know, we talked about the innocence and justice.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: They're the ones that are the innocent ones.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: We took them in their innocence.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: That are the innocent ones.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: We took them in their innocence, and it's us that have to face this, that we're pilgrims being tested, and let's hope that we can live this out, because the trials are upon us right now, aren't they?
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it reminds me of the triptych that we talked about in the beginning, that we are historical man now living with the choice of accepting redemption or rejecting it, and we studied where we came from before original sin.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: But that third part is where are we going?
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Where are we headed?
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Our destiny and that's always needs to be looming before us every day as we fight these battles.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's in prayer and it's in the sacraments.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: It's at Mass this morning that we're, you know, the closest you get where heaven and earth.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Kiss huh is right there on that altar.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: This is my body given for you, and then you receive him, you become one flesh with Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, which puts us on that narrow gate to the father, union and communion with the father and the holy spirit that we're temples of already.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: And so this begins now, and that's where our hope is.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Our hope is in the mass, the sacraments, prayer loving one another and the families.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: This is where we see all this.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: So so thank you, linda.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Primordial sacrament of marriage.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I think we spent a little time on it today and we did it on purpose, to kind of drill this in.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: To drill this in.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: If you want to try to understand what's going on in the world today the lack of love, the violence, all the things going on just remember that there's an enemy out there and there's an enemy that loves to see vitriol.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: They love to see us arguing about politics and fighting.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Get back to the basics, but just know that if we don't bring this back into our country the sense of what marriage is, the sense of what a child is, you can forget about all the other things, because this is the primordial sacrament.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: You know, this was the one in the beginning that really transferred god's love into the world, and it does the same thing today.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Nothing's changed.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: The only thing is we needed the bride christ, the bridegroom, not only to be in union and communion with us, but to redeem us, save us and bring us back into this story as it was in the beginning, right yeah, well said, well said, all right, hey, god bless you.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Thanks everyone.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, linda.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Talk to you soon.