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Mistakes Happen with Dr. Katherine Quesenberry · My Veterinary Life

0:09
Speaker 1: Welcome to this week's episode of My Veterinary Life Podcast.
0:12
Speaker 1: I'm your host, doctor Annie Chavant, and my pronouns are
0:15
Speaker 1: she Her, and we are continuing in our series Mistakes Happen,
0:19
Speaker 1: where we're talking with brave colleagues about the parts of
0:21
Speaker 1: their career stories no one likes to talk about. It
0:24
Speaker 1: is my hope that this series empowers you to share
0:27
Speaker 1: more openly about your own mistakes, both for your benefit
0:30
Speaker 1: and for the benefit of those around you, and gives
0:32
Speaker 1: you some ideas on how to approach future mistakes differently
0:35
Speaker 1: based on the stories you hear. Our guest today is
0:39
Speaker 1: doctor Catherine Queensonberry, the chief medical officer at the renowned
0:42
Speaker 1: Animal Medical Center who has served as the service head
0:45
Speaker 1: of Avian and Exotic Pet Medicine for the past several decades.
0:49
Speaker 1: We are so honored to have doctor Queensuinberry join us
0:51
Speaker 1: for this series. But before we jump in, I do
0:53
Speaker 1: want to remind everyone that My Veterinary Life Podcast is
0:57
Speaker 1: brought to you by care Credit. For more than thirty
0:59
Speaker 1: two years, care Credit has partnered with the veterinary profession,
1:02
Speaker 1: helping pets get the care they need in every moment
1:05
Speaker 1: that matters. Flexible financing with the Care Credit Health and
1:08
Speaker 1: Pet Care Credit Card. Let's pet owners spread out the
1:11
Speaker 1: costs in budget friendly monthly payments the first time and
1:15
Speaker 1: for a lifetime. Being financially prepared for whatever life brings
1:18
Speaker 1: gives everyone peace of mind. And with that, welcome to
1:22
Speaker 1: the show, Doctor Queens and Berry.
1:24
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for having me. I really appreciate
1:26
Speaker 2: this opportunity.
1:28
Speaker 1: Well, we really appreciate your time and your willingness to
1:31
Speaker 1: share on this important series. And let's start by telling
1:34
Speaker 1: our listeners a little bit about yourself. So can you
1:37
Speaker 1: share what your current role looks like and how you
1:40
Speaker 1: got here.
1:42
Speaker 2: My current role as Chief Medical Officer at the AMC.
1:46
Speaker 2: I have been at the AMC for many years. I
1:49
Speaker 2: actually started there as an intern back in nineteen eighty one.
1:52
Speaker 2: That I went out and did a residency at University
1:55
Speaker 2: of Florida and then I came back. I started the
1:59
Speaker 2: Aving Exotics Service in nineteen eighty four and worked as
2:04
Speaker 2: service head there since. As you said, many decades, and
2:08
Speaker 2: then right before COVID, there was an opportunity to expand
2:15
Speaker 2: and there was an opportunity to apply for the Chief
2:18
Speaker 2: Medical Officer position. It was a leap of faith for
2:22
Speaker 2: me because I'd never thought myself in that role. But
2:26
Speaker 2: I also felt like it was an opportunity for me
2:29
Speaker 2: to maybe give back in a way to my colleagues,
2:34
Speaker 2: the people I've been working with for so long, and
2:37
Speaker 2: to try to help, you know, make it better, I think,
2:42
Speaker 2: for the next generations of veterine aias. So that's where
2:45
Speaker 2: I've been since twenty nineteen through COVID, which was challenging
2:50
Speaker 2: through COVID in the city. But yeah, I'm having a
2:54
Speaker 2: great time and I love what I do.
2:57
Speaker 1: Oh that's so great to hear. And I love hearing
3:00
Speaker 1: stories of folks that have stayed around at a clinic
3:04
Speaker 1: and watched it evolve and change as they have evolved
3:07
Speaker 1: and changed professionally. And so it's just really special to hear.
3:10
Speaker 1: And I appreciate you sharing that story giving us a
3:14
Speaker 1: little bit of context. And we're here today to talk
3:17
Speaker 1: about some mistakes. So throughout that time that you were
3:21
Speaker 1: at AMC, could you tell us about a time when
3:24
Speaker 1: you made a mistake.
3:26
Speaker 2: When you first asked me this, I you know, several
3:28
Speaker 2: things jump into your mind, right, because it's like there
3:31
Speaker 2: are certain things that happen throughout your career that don't
3:36
Speaker 2: go away. You can remember them just like if you
3:39
Speaker 2: were there. It's inevitable that something is going to happen.
3:44
Speaker 2: And I think as veterinarians, most of us are perfectionists.
3:49
Speaker 2: Most of us are somewhat of an introvert, and I
3:52
Speaker 2: think we come out thinking we're always going to do
3:56
Speaker 2: the best, and when things go wrong, it's really really hot.
4:01
Speaker 2: So a couple of things I can say that happened
4:04
Speaker 2: to me. I remember one time I had a patient
4:07
Speaker 2: that was a cockatoo, which, if you know what, you know,
4:10
Speaker 2: these big, beautiful white birds. The bird was completely healthy
4:17
Speaker 2: and I was twobe feeding it and I was trying
4:19
Speaker 2: to do it quickly because the bird was stressed, and unfortunately,
4:25
Speaker 2: the bird regurgitated, aspirated, and it died. I was completely
4:33
Speaker 2: really mortified, taken aback to have an acute death happened
4:40
Speaker 2: on you when you one didn't expect it, and to
4:44
Speaker 2: you know, having to face that situation, it's really one
4:49
Speaker 2: is terrifying to realize that you're going to have to
4:52
Speaker 2: talk to the owner who didn't expect this to happen,
4:57
Speaker 2: and to you know, you feel horrible that this happened
5:01
Speaker 2: on your watch, right, So fortunately at that time, I
5:06
Speaker 2: had a boss who was very supportive, and I think
5:10
Speaker 2: that's very important going forward. You need to have certainly
5:14
Speaker 2: a support group for you. And I immediately told my boss.
5:19
Speaker 2: First I had to go tell the client what had happened,
5:22
Speaker 2: and obviously the client was very upset, very emotional, and
5:27
Speaker 2: those are very very difficult situations. But then I went
5:31
Speaker 2: and told my boss what happened, and I did have
5:35
Speaker 2: support through that, so I got through that. And then
5:39
Speaker 2: another situation was which wasn't quite as dramatic, but still
5:44
Speaker 2: weighs on me. I remember there was a young boy
5:48
Speaker 2: that came in with his bearded dragon, and the bearded
5:52
Speaker 2: dragon digits were necrossing, and at that time I was
5:59
Speaker 2: convinced I knew what was going on, you know, I
6:02
Speaker 2: knew what was and I made prescription. I thought it
6:06
Speaker 2: was an environmental issue, that the environment was so dry,
6:10
Speaker 2: and I didn't think enough. And this was back before
6:13
Speaker 2: we knew a whole lot about yellow fungus disease and
6:17
Speaker 2: bearded dragons, but it was just coming up. But I
6:21
Speaker 2: made the mistake probably of not reaching out to colleagues
6:26
Speaker 2: to try to get more information about, you know what
6:32
Speaker 2: I think I was a little too self confident in
6:35
Speaker 2: what I thought I knew, and I felt like I
6:40
Speaker 2: underserved this client. And I do remember that, so I think,
6:47
Speaker 2: you know, in that situation, my mistake was I didn't
6:51
Speaker 2: reach out. I didn't ask for more information to try
6:56
Speaker 2: to understand what was going on.
6:59
Speaker 1: So those are two that really stay with me.
7:01
Speaker 2: For that that brings up you know how we deal
7:04
Speaker 2: with these situations. And again these were earlier in my
7:08
Speaker 2: career and I've learned since then, But you know how
7:12
Speaker 2: you deal with these situations. And I don't know if
7:17
Speaker 2: you've listened to Benet Brown. I think she makes a
7:20
Speaker 2: really good point about experiencing guilt versus shame, And I
7:28
Speaker 2: think in many situations as veterinarians, especially early in your career,
7:34
Speaker 2: you feel shame because you feel like you're a bad person.
7:40
Speaker 2: You internalize it that you know, I don't know what
7:43
Speaker 2: I'm doing, I'm a bad veterinarian. As opposed to guilt,
7:48
Speaker 2: where you recognize that you made a mistake, but you've
7:54
Speaker 2: got to learn from that mistake. It's not a reflection
7:57
Speaker 2: of you as a bad person or a bad veterinarian,
8:01
Speaker 2: but it's a reflection of a you made a mistake
8:05
Speaker 2: and you've got to learn from it and go forward.
8:08
Speaker 2: So I think those are really important things to distinguish
8:12
Speaker 2: what you're feeling and try to work through that, because
8:18
Speaker 2: I think I know in my situation, I do you know,
8:21
Speaker 2: I did feel shame at that point. You know, I
8:24
Speaker 2: did feel like, oh my god, you know what am
8:26
Speaker 2: I doing? And then to try to turn that around
8:29
Speaker 2: and say, Okay, I made a mistake. I'm not going
8:33
Speaker 2: to do that again. You've got to learn from your
8:35
Speaker 2: mistakes and go forward.
8:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much for us to think about and
8:41
Speaker 1: unpack with those examples and the reflection that you've clearly
8:46
Speaker 1: done following those cases and thinking about how they're going
8:50
Speaker 1: to impact the way that you practice moving forward. One
8:53
Speaker 1: thing that I want to go back to with the
8:56
Speaker 1: Cockatoo example was your emphasis on the value of having
9:01
Speaker 1: a supportive boss, And I think that is a really
9:05
Speaker 1: important thing to highlight and can make a really big
9:07
Speaker 1: difference as we're navigating these mistakes that will happen. They
9:11
Speaker 1: will happen to everybody, But what did that conversation with
9:14
Speaker 1: your boss look like? Like? What did they do in
9:19
Speaker 1: that moment to make you feel supported?
9:21
Speaker 2: You can't just hide it. You have to be upfront
9:24
Speaker 2: with what happened. And my boss was a man. He
9:29
Speaker 2: was very supportive and said, you know, I'm there for you.
9:33
Speaker 2: I'll help you talk with the client, and he actually
9:36
Speaker 2: spoke with the client himself, which I think felt very
9:40
Speaker 2: very supportive for me. But I think that's so important.
9:45
Speaker 2: I actually learned a term yesterday. We were having a
9:48
Speaker 2: similar discussion. But in human medicine they have a code
9:51
Speaker 2: they say code lavender and code lavenders when there's an
9:56
Speaker 2: emotional situation and they call it and a support team,
10:01
Speaker 2: which I thought, you know, I was like, oh, that's
10:03
Speaker 2: pretty cool, you know, to have that term. But that
10:07
Speaker 2: is so important and that's what we built at AMC.
10:10
Speaker 2: We've built a really robust support team for when things
10:16
Speaker 2: happen like that, because inevitably things happen, and so we
10:22
Speaker 2: have a whole team of people, including social workers for
10:27
Speaker 2: the clients. We have our client Satisfaction team that any
10:32
Speaker 2: client who hasn't played or if there's a problem, we
10:37
Speaker 2: know about it immediately, and we support the veterinarians there.
10:41
Speaker 2: And so I think if you know, wherever you work,
10:44
Speaker 2: if you can have a team like that, it makes
10:48
Speaker 2: a huge difference because then you're not taking this on
10:53
Speaker 2: and internalizing it yourself, and that can be very difficult.
10:58
Speaker 2: We already have emotional job right in situations, and then
11:02
Speaker 2: you deal with the situation like that where there is
11:05
Speaker 2: a mistake and someone has lost their pet or there's
11:10
Speaker 2: a bad outcome that even doubles down. So you have
11:14
Speaker 2: to have some sort of support network, both at home
11:17
Speaker 2: and at work to help you through those situations.
11:22
Speaker 1: I was not familiar with the code Lavender either, and
11:25
Speaker 1: I think that speaks to the importance, like the fact
11:29
Speaker 1: that it's codified is a testament to the fact that
11:32
Speaker 1: that these things do happen, and we do need to
11:35
Speaker 1: be very careful and respectful with how we manage it afterwards.
11:39
Speaker 1: And it's that management afterwards is what really makes a
11:43
Speaker 1: big difference in what matters and allows for that growth
11:45
Speaker 1: both with ourselves as the medical professionals, and then also
11:48
Speaker 1: with our clients and that relationship and the patients. I'm
11:51
Speaker 1: really glad that you shared that and that there are
11:53
Speaker 1: similarities in place at AMC to treat these situations with
11:57
Speaker 1: the care that they deserve. Yes, and then I also
12:01
Speaker 1: want to revisit our Bearded Dragon because you mentioned that
12:07
Speaker 1: self confidence was a bit at play there and feeling
12:11
Speaker 1: like you made the diagnosis and kind of moved on
12:15
Speaker 1: after that and maybe had some confirmation biases going on there,
12:19
Speaker 1: And I think that's holf. Confidence is something that's so
12:22
Speaker 1: important for us to mention, especially thinking about early on
12:25
Speaker 1: in our career, because I feel like it's such a
12:28
Speaker 1: tension between not feeling confident enough and then feeling overly
12:32
Speaker 1: confident sometimes.
12:34
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's totally totally. I think the main thing
12:37
Speaker 2: you have to listen. We all have to feel confident
12:41
Speaker 2: right in what we're doing, but I think you have
12:44
Speaker 2: to at the same time that you're confident, you have
12:47
Speaker 2: to remain open. We all tend to get in our
12:51
Speaker 2: little lanes, right And you learn this as you go
12:55
Speaker 2: through your career. And I'm sure you've heard this before.
12:58
Speaker 2: The longer you've been out there practicing, the more you
13:00
Speaker 2: realize you don't know right.
13:01
Speaker 1: And it's like you always have to.
13:04
Speaker 2: Be open to other ideas, and especially you know in
13:08
Speaker 2: situations where you practice kind of in your own lane
13:12
Speaker 2: for a long time and then somebody else comes in.
13:14
Speaker 2: And that's a beauty of being at AMC is that
13:16
Speaker 2: we always have people coming in with new ideas, right,
13:19
Speaker 2: you always have to be open and thinking, oh, well,
13:22
Speaker 2: I've done it this way and I think it's this,
13:24
Speaker 2: but you know, maybe maybe there's a different way of
13:27
Speaker 2: doing it, or maybe there's a different diagnosis that I
13:29
Speaker 2: didn't think of. So I think you have to even
13:32
Speaker 2: though you're confident, you have to be open to being
13:37
Speaker 2: receptive to other ideas, other thoughts, other ways of doing things.
13:41
Speaker 2: And that's something that we all have to be aware
13:45
Speaker 2: of as we go through our careers.
13:47
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I think a point that I want to make
13:50
Speaker 1: that ties both of those things in is I noticed
13:53
Speaker 1: when you were describing the cockatoo example that you said
13:57
Speaker 1: you wanted to do the person teacher quickly. You were
14:01
Speaker 1: feeding through the tube, but you wanted to do it
14:03
Speaker 1: quickly because the bird was stressed. And I think just
14:07
Speaker 1: that little sentence to me is so important, because the
14:11
Speaker 1: incident is never in isolation, right, It's never just the procedure.
14:15
Speaker 1: There's a time component, a stress component of the patient,
14:18
Speaker 1: or maybe you there's team dynamics. There's as doctor Brandt
14:22
Speaker 1: mentioned in the Interactory episode to this series, there's individual
14:26
Speaker 1: and systemic factors at play, or every mistake that happens.
14:30
Speaker 1: So can you comment a little bit on that or
14:33
Speaker 1: how maybe you practiced differently as the result of learning
14:37
Speaker 1: from some of your mistakes.
14:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I can also comment and being part
14:42
Speaker 2: a large organization, certainly, I think you learn as you
14:45
Speaker 2: go along that. Yeah, I mean there's there's different factors.
14:49
Speaker 2: You know, you're behind in your appointments or whatever. You've
14:51
Speaker 2: got to get through this, But each case is individual.
14:55
Speaker 2: You always have to take the time and don't rest
14:59
Speaker 2: on a I've done this a million times, I don't
15:01
Speaker 2: you know, I don't need to pay as much attention
15:04
Speaker 2: as I've done it before because every case is different
15:07
Speaker 2: and every case can go wrong, you know, if you
15:10
Speaker 2: don't take the time. And I know it's hard and
15:14
Speaker 2: stressful situations or when you're feeling rush, but you've got
15:19
Speaker 2: to slow down, take the time, pay attention to what
15:21
Speaker 2: you're doing. Absolutely focus, especially now right everything's on, you're
15:26
Speaker 2: checking your phone, you're doing this, you're doing that, but
15:29
Speaker 2: you have to focus on what you're doing with the patient,
15:31
Speaker 2: for sure.
15:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that that's such a good reminder and
15:37
Speaker 1: it can be so challenging, especially earlier on in our
15:40
Speaker 1: careers when we put so much pressure on ourselves and
15:43
Speaker 1: maybe there is some external pressure as well. Do you
15:46
Speaker 1: have any advice. I'm gonna tap into the chief Medical
15:49
Speaker 1: officer hat a little bit here, I think for new
15:53
Speaker 1: grads who want to have that conversation with their either
15:58
Speaker 1: office manager, practice own or about maybe needing some systemic
16:04
Speaker 1: adjustments to be able to have that time that they're
16:07
Speaker 1: looking for to double check to stay focused.
16:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's always the challenge, right
16:14
Speaker 2: and you know, we've certainly at AMC had to make adjustments.
16:19
Speaker 2: Things are so much more complicated nowadays. I think you know,
16:22
Speaker 2: with used to you had write out something on a
16:25
Speaker 2: piece of paper that was your medical note. Now you're
16:27
Speaker 2: you're doing all things. That being said, with the use
16:30
Speaker 2: of AI scribes and all that, we can be more
16:34
Speaker 2: efficient in what we do. But I do think we
16:37
Speaker 2: have to as administration, have to listen to the people
16:44
Speaker 2: that are on the you know, on the front lines
16:46
Speaker 2: and doing things and if they're feeling they can't do
16:50
Speaker 2: something with it, or they're feeling rushed, or there's there's
16:53
Speaker 2: too much to do, we have we have to adjust.
16:56
Speaker 2: I mean, we have to do that because, as I said,
16:58
Speaker 2: things are much more complicated now days. We have to
17:00
Speaker 2: be aware of that because we want to do a
17:03
Speaker 2: good job and we want to practice to the best
17:07
Speaker 2: of our ability. So I think you just have to
17:09
Speaker 2: have those frank conversations with your administration and hopefully they'll listen.
17:15
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's great advice. And being proactive and
17:19
Speaker 1: being willing to have those conversations even before significant mistake happens,
17:24
Speaker 1: and making sure that everybody on the team is familiar
17:27
Speaker 1: with the protocols, knows who to talk to, identify that
17:30
Speaker 1: supportive mentor as we talked about at the beginning. Those
17:34
Speaker 1: all sound like great ideas for being able to navigate
17:37
Speaker 1: these situations with a little bit more confidence.
17:40
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you mentioned the word protocols, and I think
17:43
Speaker 2: that's also very important to have at least good training.
17:47
Speaker 2: I think training is so important, and we emphasize that
17:52
Speaker 2: training of your support staff, training of everyone on the team.
17:57
Speaker 2: As far as how to approach situations, I think that
18:00
Speaker 2: is vitally important to have a smooth running team and
18:04
Speaker 2: try to mitigate issues like this, And we're constantly training
18:09
Speaker 2: in every aspect. We're constantly training.
18:11
Speaker 1: That's a great point. Now I want to invite you
18:16
Speaker 1: to do a little bit of additional reflection here, how
18:20
Speaker 1: has your perspective on mistakes changed over time?
18:25
Speaker 2: So I think what I've realized now is one everybody's
18:31
Speaker 2: going to make a mistake, right, the most important thing
18:34
Speaker 2: is to be transparent. Being open on is transparent. That
18:39
Speaker 2: is very, very important, And it's also a service to
18:43
Speaker 2: the client. Offering support to the client if you have
18:46
Speaker 2: social workers or something like that, I think, or some
18:49
Speaker 2: sort of support that way, having someone for them to
18:53
Speaker 2: talk to if they are upset, but listening to the client,
18:57
Speaker 2: and then going forward, you have to circle back and
19:01
Speaker 2: see how was the mistake made, what went wrong? Why
19:06
Speaker 2: was the mistake made?
19:07
Speaker 1: And then you have.
19:08
Speaker 2: To look at your own protocols, you know what you
19:12
Speaker 2: were doing to understand why it was made, how you
19:17
Speaker 2: can correct that going forward. And that's that's just as important,
19:22
Speaker 2: and that's important to the client too. They want to
19:25
Speaker 2: know if a mistake was made a lot of times
19:28
Speaker 2: they want to know that that's not going to happen
19:30
Speaker 2: to somebody else.
19:31
Speaker 1: Right, So they want to hear that you are.
19:34
Speaker 2: Making changes to know that that won't happen again. And
19:39
Speaker 2: I think those are the things that we try to
19:42
Speaker 2: emphasize in that I've learned through the years that are
19:45
Speaker 2: that are key to dealing with mistakes, because, like I said,
19:49
Speaker 2: you're always going to have mistakes. It's just part of
19:51
Speaker 2: what we do and you have to accept that.
19:54
Speaker 1: So being transparent and then reflecting as a team and
20:00
Speaker 1: what we can change or what we can do better
20:03
Speaker 1: so that this does not happen to another patient. It
20:06
Speaker 1: sounds like the tenets of what you've learned over the
20:09
Speaker 1: years and navigating and managing mistakes. Yes, yes, absolutely, And.
20:14
Speaker 2: I can not add you know the other thing when
20:16
Speaker 2: you're dealing with clients. I think obviously most of us
20:20
Speaker 2: do this, but you do have to inform a client
20:23
Speaker 2: of all risks of anything, and you you know, you
20:27
Speaker 2: want to have written acknowledgment that they understand the risks.
20:32
Speaker 2: But you also I think also when you're dealing with
20:35
Speaker 2: a client, you have to present all options. That My
20:39
Speaker 2: philosophy is I never force a client into a certain option.
20:43
Speaker 2: I say these are your options. We can do this,
20:47
Speaker 2: we can do this, or we can do this. This
20:49
Speaker 2: may carry a lot more risks, but if it works,
20:53
Speaker 2: then perhaps the animal will be that much better. So
20:58
Speaker 2: I think you have to present the awe questions always
21:01
Speaker 2: to the client and have the client make the decision.
21:04
Speaker 2: You don't say we're going to do this, We're going
21:05
Speaker 2: to do this. Sometimes clients don't feel like they were
21:09
Speaker 2: fully informed of the risks or what their other options were.
21:14
Speaker 2: Those are also very important tenants to try to prevent
21:18
Speaker 2: a bad situation if a mistake or or something doesn't
21:22
Speaker 2: go right.
21:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that transparency that you mentioned for after mistakes
21:27
Speaker 1: can be valuable before in talking about the procedure and
21:31
Speaker 1: being upfront about why we're recommending it, what the benefits are,
21:34
Speaker 1: but also what are those associated risks, so that we're
21:38
Speaker 1: all on the same page going into the procedure. Now,
21:41
Speaker 1: you've mentioned a few times that mistakes do happen. They're
21:44
Speaker 1: going to happen to all of us. So as we
21:47
Speaker 1: wrap our conversation today, I would love to get your
21:51
Speaker 1: advice for that recent graduate who is in practice and
21:56
Speaker 1: anxious even thinking about making their very first big mistake.
22:01
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I experienced this with my trainees. What
22:06
Speaker 2: I try to tell them is that it happens to
22:08
Speaker 2: all of us. I think, you know, if they're feeling uncomfortable,
22:13
Speaker 2: go to someone maybe who's got five years experience so
22:17
Speaker 2: someone a little more experienced than you and talk to them,
22:20
Speaker 2: and chances are they're going to open up and say, hey,
22:23
Speaker 2: this happened to me. It's not the end of your career.
22:26
Speaker 2: You're going to get through this, and you'll learn and
22:30
Speaker 2: you learn from your mistakes and probably you'll never do
22:34
Speaker 2: that again, right. I mean, that's how we learn, that's
22:38
Speaker 2: how we grow. And you have to learn it and
22:40
Speaker 2: not take it personally. It doesn't reflect on you, as
22:44
Speaker 2: we said earlier, as a bad, bad veterinarian or whatever.
22:47
Speaker 2: It's a mistake and you have to look at it,
22:51
Speaker 2: learn from it, and then you move forward. And I
22:54
Speaker 2: think that helps a lot. And I think it helps
22:58
Speaker 2: a lot to hear that it happens to everyone and
23:01
Speaker 2: it happens to me, and I usually try to give
23:03
Speaker 2: examples of where you know, it didn't happen to me,
23:06
Speaker 2: you know. So I think that talking to someone and
23:10
Speaker 2: getting that support is really important.
23:14
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, And I think I'm so glad that the
23:18
Speaker 1: importance of community and practicing in community has been a
23:21
Speaker 1: thread throughout this conversation. It was so helpful to you
23:25
Speaker 1: in the case with the cockatoo of being able to
23:28
Speaker 1: feel comfortable going to your boss and talking to him
23:30
Speaker 1: about it and feeling the support for him and seeing
23:32
Speaker 1: it when he was willing to speak to the client
23:34
Speaker 1: as well, and then recognizing that that support is vital
23:40
Speaker 1: in the navigating of mistakes, and it can look different
23:44
Speaker 1: for different folks. It doesn't have to be your boss.
23:46
Speaker 1: It can be that colleague five years out, or trusted
23:50
Speaker 1: friend from veterinary school who's kind of in the same
23:53
Speaker 1: phase as you, or a mentor in another practice. The
23:57
Speaker 1: important thing is to identify a trusted, respected colleague who
24:04
Speaker 1: can help share some of the emotional weight of the
24:07
Speaker 1: situation and empathize because we've all been there, and so
24:11
Speaker 1: I think reminding ourselves that we're not alone, that we
24:14
Speaker 1: do have resources, and we will get through this, and
24:18
Speaker 1: we'll get through this together is such valuable advice for
24:22
Speaker 1: you to share with our listeners today. Yeah yeah, so
24:25
Speaker 1: so well said, thank you, well, thank you so much,
24:28
Speaker 1: doctor Queasenberry. I have really enjoyed this conversation and hearing
24:31
Speaker 1: about your experiences and also learning from the reflected work
24:35
Speaker 1: that you have done on mistakes and the valuable lessons
24:39
Speaker 1: that we can learn from them that make us the
24:41
Speaker 1: better professionals moving forward. So thank you so much for
24:44
Speaker 1: your time today and really really appreciate you coming on.
24:47
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, and thank you to each of
24:49
Speaker 1: you for joining us on this episode of My Veterinary
24:51
Speaker 1: Life podcast. We love sharing this journey with you and remember,
24:55
Speaker 1: we want to hear from you, so please be sure
24:56
Speaker 1: to leave us a rating interview on Apple Podcasts or
24:59
Speaker 1: whatever platform you listen to, and you can also email
25:02
Speaker 1: me at MVL podcast at ABMA dot org. Take care
25:05
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time.