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Rabbit Welfare & Bonding: Expert Enrichment Tips with The Huns Buns · Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Paws Between Us podcast co-hosted by our best friends Natalie and Sasha.
• 0:05
  We're lifelong animal lovers and proud pet parents. No kids, just fur.
• 0:09
  And between us, we share our lives with cats Weaver and Murray and Betty the pug.
• 0:15
  Hiya. How are you doing? Yeah, you? Yeah, good, good, good. Not too bad. Thank you.
• 0:21
  Good. Yeah, it's the birthday week, isn't it? I've recently celebrated a birthday.
• 0:27
  Yeah, just had a nice week off and had a lovely birthday at the start of the week.
• 0:33
  We've had lots of birthdays this week. We've got my husband's grandma's 100th
• 0:40
  and then my mum's birthday as well. So lots of birthdays. It's been great. It's been nice
• 0:45
  celebrating, have some time off work. May is clearly like a big birthday month then.
• 0:50
  Big family birthday month for us. Yeah.
• 0:53
  Well, I'm sorry I'm not closer and we can celebrate. Well, we could have celebrated
• 0:57
  together and gone out for a cocktail or a wine like we used to do when we were younger. Hang
• 1:03
  out. I still remember your 30th birthday, I think really well. The fancy dress party. Yeah, 80s.
• 1:11
  That was very cool. That was fun. And then when it was my 40th, we did the 90s.
• 1:16
  Yeah, just got to work through the decades. The next one.
• 1:19
  Yeah. Let's not even think about the next big birthday. I think I've got a few years to go
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  and I'm sort of, yeah. Yeah, I'm dragging my heels for this one. So,
• 1:30
  yeah. Let's not wish it on us. No.
• 1:34
  How are you? How things have you been? How's your week?
• 1:36
  Yeah, it's been a busy week as always, but all good. Betty's still going to her physio,
• 1:44
  but we've moved that to fortnightly now. She's still having the laser therapy.
• 1:49
  And yeah, really sad actually to hear that the physio that she's been dealing with is
• 1:54
  only leaving temporarily because she's off to have a baby, but it means that her role won't
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  be filled. And yeah, we're going to have to find a new physio. And there's not many of them around,
• 2:04
  so on the hunt for a new physio. It's interesting that you talked about
• 2:10
  this physio because with Murray having this sort of limp thing going on, I wondered whether there
• 2:15
  was cat's physio. So I might try and, like I thought about massaging his neck and shoulders
• 2:21
  to see if that eased a little bit, but I don't know what I'm really doing. So it did make me
• 2:26
  wonder whether there's cat versions out there. Yeah, possibly. I mean, I think with the physio
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  I've been doing with Betty, the physio has sort of taught me how to do a bit of sort of massage
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  of Betty of her neck and shoulders because her back legs aren't working as well. She's putting
• 2:42
  a lot of pressure on her front legs and I think all around her chest and her neck and her shoulders
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  quite sort of stiff and sore. So it's quite hard to describe on audio. I think it would be better
• 2:51
  if I was there with you and I could show you what I do with Betty. She sort of likes it but doesn't.
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  She sort of has this little squirm as if to say it's kind of like a nice feeling but not.
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  But the physio did say she was quite tight around there in that area. So hopefully sort of the
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  massages every night on the sofa while we're watching TV are helping. Yeah, it makes me think
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  I could do with something like that. Yeah, I'm feeling like that now, like give me one.
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  Give me one. But today with Betty is nail clipping day actually, which Betty absolutely hates having
• 3:32
  her nails clipped. It's been a challenge ever since we've had her. And you have to make sure
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  as well that the nails don't get too long because that can also affect her balance and her gait.
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  Do they not naturally wear down through walking? Well, they do but she hasn't been doing as much
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  walking so they've been growing a lot more quickly. And that is I think one of my biggest
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  regrets and learning is the nail clipping. I think if I have my time again, I would have made sure
• 4:12
  that I kept on top of it and also persevered because I think with Betty hating having,
• 4:18
  she hates having her paws touched. It's a bit funny about that. I think it's a pug thing. But
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  then that means she also even hates even more her nails being clipped. And I think I've sort of,
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  because it's quite traumatic for her. It's quite difficult. She hates it. She squeals that you
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  sort of think, oh, okay, well, I'm not going to put her through this. I'm not going to do it.
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  And then as a result, the nails kind of grow even longer and then it's even harder to clip them
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  because, yeah, I just sort of explained a little bit about nails here for people that don't know
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  and because I've been on a real sort of learning journey on this. But nails are formed from the
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  nail bed and they're made up of keratin, which is a protein made of dead cells. And the inner
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  part of the nail is called the quick and that contains blood vessels and nerves which provide
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  nourishment to the nail. Now, if you don't clip dog's nails enough or frequently enough,
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  then the quick also grows down. So when you come to clip a nail, you're cutting through the quick
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  and then that's really, really painful. The thing is, she's now got super long quicks and when she
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  had her teeth removed last year, I asked them while she was kind of under to do the nails,
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  that way she's not going to know, you know. And they said to me, oh yeah, she's got really sort
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  of long quicks. And yeah, so it's a bit of a challenge really because if you don't keep the
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  nail short, they can cause multiple problems. The nail could turn into the pad and cause pain
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  and occasionally infection. And yeah, like I say, there could be problems with the dog's posture
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  or malformation of the feet. And you know, Betty, because she did have a long claw last year, also
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  caught the claw, the nail, and we had to have that removed. And so that was also quite hard,
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  like quite traumatic. It was a result of us not clipping them enough. Yeah, she did have a nail
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  injury. So it's really tricky, but today we're going to persevere and I'm trying to, what I'm
• 6:22
  called, nibble at them. I'm like nibbling at them daily. So I'm choosing one claw to go on their
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  nail. Keep using those two words interchangeably. But I have to distract her and I have to get my
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  husband to hold her. And I sort of have to kind of do it while she's not wriggling about. And I
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  choose one and then, yeah, give her a bit of time out and then the next day do another. But recently
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  I had sort of clipped some of them and blood poured everywhere. But I've got this powder now,
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  which you can pop on. But they call it like a coagulant powder and you just sort of dab on
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  with some pressure and it sort of stops. But one day I did it and the blood was pouring.
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  And of course, she's got very dark nails. Her nails are black, so her claws are black.
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  With some dogs they're sort of quite clear and you can actually see the quick in them,
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  but with their sort of dark claws you can't. So it's a bit of a guessing game as to where the
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  sort of the quick is. Yeah, cats are the same actually, but with mine they are clear. But I
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  haven't cut cat's claws for ages because most of the cats are quite good at like keeping their
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  short by using all the scratch posts. Yeah, they do a lot of scratching.
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  All the time, yeah. So they don't need to. But what happens usually is with older cats,
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  probably same with Betty, they don't scratch as much. They grow a lot quicker and they tend to,
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  like you say, curl in and then touch the paw pads. Like a corkscrew.
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  Yeah, and I had to do that with Diaz and get hers cut more regularly. She wasn't too much of a fuss.
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  These two I think will be a nightmare because they are wrigglers.
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  Yeah, it's the wriggling, it's the squealing. You don't want to cause them pain. It's that
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  saying, killing them with kindness. You're sort of saying, well, I won't do it. I won't get them
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  stressed. But actually there's so many consequences of not keeping the nails short that actually you're
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  better off just doing. Yeah, like you said, I think if I kind of had my time again,
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  I'd definitely recommend to anybody who's got a young cat or kitten, play with their faces,
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  touch their eyes, open their mouth, get them used to sort of just peering in and checking their
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  ears, checking their eyes, checking their mouth, touching their paws. I mean, ours are quite good
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  at some of that, but getting in their mouth is impossible, especially the vets. And last time
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  we went when they were checking Murray's tooth, they burrito wrapped him. Oh, what's that? I felt
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  really sorry for him because he's not normally restrained like that, but they just sort of put
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  him in a towel and wrapped it around so he couldn't like fling his arms and legs out. Like he doesn't
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  scratch, but he just uses them to like manipulate himself around and wiggles more. So they burrito
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  wrapped him and managed to just about check him, but he's like craning his neck round so they can't
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  get to him. And I'm like, it's fine. All they're going to do is check your mouth. But he doesn't
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  know. That's the thing, like it's just you're trying to do good and they absolutely hate it.
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  I think you're right. It's sort of doing this thing from a really young age, getting them sort
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  of comfortable. And because we adopted Betty a year and a half, we sort of missed those puppy
• 9:27
  years, really. But I think there's still more I could have done. But yeah, burrito wrap. I love
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  that little thing, that term. I'm just imagining him now in this towel. A little towel. He didn't
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  mind until she started looking at his mouth and then he's wiggling around again. Oh, like Murray,
• 9:48
  it's fine. Bless him. But good luck with your claw cutting. Yeah, claw clipping. I will keep you
• 9:55
  posted. But talking of learnings, I think we're quite excited today, aren't we, to learn all about
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  taking care of rabbits? Because I think we've both spoken before, I'm sure we have, but about
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  when we had rabbits when we were younger and some of the things we weren't really like aware of and
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  there wasn't as much awareness of generally about rabbit welfare. And, you know, we both had rabbits,
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  I think, didn't we, in very small hutches. Yeah, I had a rabbit that I don't really like talking
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  about because I made a big mistake with that rabbit when I was in my early 20s and it was
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  going to be a house rabbit. And I feel utterly guilty for my care of that poor thing. I wasn't
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  mean to it at all and it had the range of the house, but I made some mistakes. And like you
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  say, you do, you feel guilty. And I want people to realise that you may feel that guilt from
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  learning now about their of animals and how you did it in the past, but don't feel guilty. It's
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  just all about kind of educating and making a change now. And hopefully by us sharing information,
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  it helps people to make a few little changes to how they take care of animals. As long as
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  you learn and do something new. Yeah, exactly. So it is, it is. And so we're today chatting to
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  Carrie from The Hunsbuns, who is going to be talking to us about her life, taking care of
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  Inky, Jack and Blue, who are rescue bunnies. And yeah, just basically some top tips for animal
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  welfare and taking care of your bunny in the best possible way possible. So yeah, I'm quite,
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  quite excited to speak to Carrie. Yeah, I'm really pleased she's agreed to come on. It's so kind of
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  people just getting involved and helping us educate and share with people. So thanks. It'll
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  be a really good episode. So stay with us and she'll be on any second.
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  Okay, so here we are. We've got a lovely special guest called Carrie from The Hunsbuns. And as you
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  may be able to tell, she looks after bunnies. And what drew me in was your lovely, lovely social
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  media posts. I was just so astonished by the beautiful hutches and enclosures you've made for
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  them. I was just like, this is gorgeous. Like you'd gone to town with it. It looked beautiful.
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  And you had loads of amazing tips and advice. So wanted to reach out. We wanted to bring you on.
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  So thank you for coming, Carrie. Welcome. Thank you very much for having me.
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  Yeah, thank you, Carrie. It's really good to meet you. Just to get us started. So tell us
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  about you and The Hunsbuns, who I believe are called Jack, Blue and Inky.
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  Yep, Jack, Blue and Inky. So they are three bonded male rescue bunnies. And they've made
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  their home with me in rural Yorkshire. They're a continental breed mixed with some English spot,
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  we believe, because they are from the RSPCA. So they're, because of the circumstances they were
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  rescued from, they're kind of, it's just best guess what kind of breed that they are. But
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  they're quite big bunnies. So they need a lot of space and a lot of enrichment to keep them busy.
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  Because they're, you know, they're three boys, they're quite boisterous. And it is quite unusual
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  to have three bonded males living together. Their kind of, their personalities and their
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  colony structure works so well. And even after they were neutered with the RSPCA,
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  and then re-bonded back together, they were still a gorgeous fit breed.
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  Yeah, they were rescued together and now they're living still together. So that's lovely.
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  Well, that's lovely you can keep them together.
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  Yeah, what does a bonded males mean? Like,
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  is that because they've grown up together? Is that what it means?
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  Yeah, so when rabbits are bonded, it means that they have kind of formed a friendship
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  and a bond with each other. So when you bond rabbits together, they basically kind of connect
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  with that bunny for the entirety of their lives. But because bunnies have personalities,
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  it's quite difficult to bond some bunnies together, because sometimes their personalities
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  will just kind of clash like humans. So we're quite lucky that my three boys are very kind
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  of different. There's only one that kind of is the dominant one. And then there's one who is
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  quite submissive, and he just kind of, you know, does his own thing. And then Blue is just obsessed
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  with Jack, who's the boss. So it just works really, really nicely together. If all three of
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  them were trying to be the dominant one, then it wouldn't work. And so yeah, it's just, you know,
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  lovely circumstances that they're able to live together like they do.
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  Or do you think they figured that out themselves in terms of the pecking order? Or do you think
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  that that's just their personalities? And actually, it's nice that they've kind of,
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  you know, the three of them are like they are, so they do get along?
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  Yeah, I think it's a bit of a mix, really. From where they were rescued from, they were living
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  with like 45 other bunnies. And they were all kept together in a really tiny shed.
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  And somebody kind of just happened upon them by accident and rescued all of them and put
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  them in his car and drove them back up to Yorkshire and surrendered them to the RSPCA.
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  So I think that there was possibly some kind of natural pecking order already in place within that
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  environment. And then when the three boys were taken to the RSPCA fosterer, the lady who I
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  fostered them from, she fostered quite a few from the same rescue. And yeah, those three,
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  they kind of figured out their structure again in rescue. And then when they came to me,
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  we had a couple of days of Jack being particularly overly dominant for a couple of days while they
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  were in a new environment. But then it just settled down again back into what they were used to.
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  Oh, that's brilliant. It's really good to hear that you've adopted from the RSPCA. My husband
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  will be very happy because he works for the RSPCA. So yeah, he'll be really pleased that
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  you've gone about that. So what made you want to adopt? And how did you go about it? Have you
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  adopted before or was it something new? I have rescued before, but I've rescued from pet shops,
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  which sounds like a contradiction at times. But I've kind of, me and my mum, who's no longer with
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  us, but she also was the person who would rescue animals from neighbours and people that she thought
• 16:02
  out and about with dogs that weren't being treated very well. You know, I'll give you £20 and I'll
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  take the dog off you kind of thing. She worked on a farm. We had like baby goats in our house,
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  even mice. I remember being bitten by a mouse as a child and my mum rescuing the mouse
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  and releasing it in the park. So I mean, even as a child living in the middle of nowhere in
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  Yorkshire, bringing injured bunnies that I'd found on the road and home in my t-shirt and things
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  like that. So yeah, I think it's always just been kind of ingrained in me to want to, you know,
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  rescue and help wherever I can. Even through school, college, uni, I went through the foster
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  care system myself and I had rabbits the whole time with me, with my foster parents.
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  And when I met my husband, I had rabbits. So I came as a package deal with rabbits and also
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  had a rescue dog with me when I met my husband as well. So yeah, just always have them.
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  When my eldest bunny, at the time he was 13 when he died, I was newly married. I was thinking about
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  babies. So I kind of put rabbit keeping kind of on pause, on hold for a little while. But they're
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  bigger now. They're seven and ten. So that kind of itch came back that I needed to scratch and
• 17:20
  get bunnies again. Found lots and lots of really lovely rescues in my area and then was put in
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  touch with a lady who fostered for the Irish PCA who literally lived in the next village to me. So
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  yeah, that's how I came to be with them.
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  So gorgeous.
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  Yeah, I mean, amazing story. Just the fact that it sounds like it's in your DNA.
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  And interesting when you met your husband, did you say it's me and the dog and the rabbits?
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  Yeah, absolutely.
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  Take me as a package.
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  Definitely. When we were looking for our first flat, well, our first house together,
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  you know, we were trying to find somewhere to rent together in nowhere. He wanted to rent
• 18:02
  us with a dog and rabbits and things like that. So yeah, it was, well, it's just tough. We'll
• 18:09
  just have to wait until somewhere is available.
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  It's all of us.
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  All or nothing.
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  All go together.
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  How old are the bunnies now? The ones you've got, the three boys?
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  Blue and Inky. The Irish PCA think that they're from the same litter or that they were born
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  very, very close together from different litters because of their size and their weight when they
• 18:30
  were rescued. So they thought that they were about up to a year old. And Jack, based on his size and
• 18:38
  weight when he was rescued, they thought he was perhaps older and that he was maybe in the one
• 18:43
  to two bracket. But yeah, it's because of the circumstances, it's all a bit of a guess. They
• 18:49
  are microchips and they do have dates of birth on the microchip, but it's kind of a best guess.
• 18:54
  Yeah, that was like with my dog. We know she's definitely 11 because we've had her since she
• 18:59
  was 10. Sorry, we've had her for 10 years. And we knew she was at least one and a half,
• 19:05
  but yeah, they thought she might be older. And why do they make great pets? Like,
• 19:10
  what is it about rabbits that make them so lovable? I mean, I can guess, but yeah.
• 19:15
  I mean, they're just such awesome animals. They're such a unique species. I think a common
• 19:20
  misconception is that they are kind of low maintenance starter pets, which I absolutely
• 19:26
  hate that term, that you can stick in a hutch and feed carrots and you don't really have to
• 19:31
  interact with them very much. But actually, they need such complex daily, they have such complex
• 19:39
  daily needs. And I think that that is part of what makes them such a great pet because they
• 19:44
  have such individual personalities. They can recognise their own name, they can be litter
• 19:49
  trained, they can solve puzzles. They're so much more like cats and dogs than you would kind of
• 19:55
  think. And their care is just as time consuming and commitment based as well. They can live up
• 20:02
  from 10 to 15 years with really good care. So, you know, they can be considered as, you know,
• 20:07
  a family pet for a very, very long time, just the same as you would a cat or a dog.
• 20:11
  But yeah, they're absolutely awesome, awesome animals. And I think that the reason why they're
• 20:17
  so popular is obviously because, you know, they look so cute and they're so inquisitive and curious.
• 20:24
  And I think that the more that you learn about them and the more time you put into them,
• 20:27
  the more of them that you see in personalities as well. You know, I could, you know, tell you
• 20:34
  each one of each of the bunnies, how they'll react to like different situations. You know,
• 20:39
  I think people just think that they're kind of personality-ness. And I remember saying once to
• 20:45
  my husband, I said, think baby love, who was my rabbit at the time when he met me. I said,
• 20:51
  oh, I think she's really cross with something. He said, how can you tell? And I said, well,
• 20:53
  look at her face. He went, it's just a rabbit face. And I went, no, no, no. You can read her.
• 21:00
  Yeah. It sounds like you're really in tune with them, which is amazing. And yeah,
• 21:03
  there's definitely more to them, just their looks. Right. So yeah, definitely.
• 21:08
  I think that's right. The more time you spend with an animal, the more bonded you become and
• 21:12
  the more you understand their behavior and their likes and when they're angry and a little bit
• 21:17
  stressed. Yeah. Totally kind of like, this is probably what I'm doing a lot with mine at the
• 21:22
  moment is spending a lot more kind of like quality time with them to sort of, because again, people
• 21:27
  have cats and they sort of say, you know, well, the cat comes and goes and I don't really see it,
• 21:31
  but my cats are indoors and I spend a lot of time talking to them, talking about them.
• 21:35
  And you see their personalities, you see their uniqueness. I think that's, so it's nice,
• 21:39
  you know, that's true of all animals. And I think that's a good thing for people to be thinking
• 21:43
  about, you know, the more you put in, the more you'll get out of your lovely relationship.
• 21:47
  Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Completely agree.
• 21:49
  When we talked as well a little bit, and I've heard this, a few people talk about this,
• 21:53
  about keeping rabbits either solo or in groups. Like, is there any advice around that?
• 21:59
  It's always a little bit contentious, this issue, because there are lots of people that do have
• 22:03
  learned rabbits and they will tell you that that learned rabbit is the happiest rabbit
• 22:07
  in the world. And I do believe that they do an excellent job of caring for them and looking
• 22:12
  after their physical needs. And so they assume that their rabbit is absolutely fine and is very
• 22:16
  happy living on their own. But the hill I will die on is that rabbits need to be with other
• 22:23
  rabbits. Absolutely. Regardless of whether they are binking across the room during the day or that
• 22:29
  they live inside with you, so that they have human interaction quite a lot. They might have a cat
• 22:35
  that they, you know, get along with. But one of the five main welfare requirements for a rabbit
• 22:40
  is companionship. And I feel like people kind of pick and choose which welfare requirements that
• 22:46
  they're going to take on board. And they'll provide them, you know, with an excellent diet
• 22:50
  and the space requirements that they need. They'll protect them from pain. They'll give them
• 22:55
  opportunities to express their normal behaviour. But then don't give them a friend. And I think,
• 23:00
  how can you follow all those other welfare requirements but think, actually, I'm not going
• 23:04
  to follow that one. That one doesn't apply to me. And I've had people, you know, vehemently tell me,
• 23:09
  even last weekend, that I'm spreading misinformation, telling people that rabbits need
• 23:14
  companionship. But I guide people based on evidence-based research, based on the Rabbit
• 23:22
  Welfare Association fund requirements, Agamorth professionals that I've spoken to, my own exotic
• 23:27
  vet. They're so social. They're so intelligent. If they're living on their own for the entirety of
• 23:33
  their life, that is a very, very miserable existence for that rabbit. And there's kind of no,
• 23:40
  you know, sugarcoating that. They are, you know, they're going to be quite bored and quite lonely
• 23:45
  on their own. Yeah. I can hear your passion. Like you said, it's a hill you're going to die on. I
• 23:51
  can hear your sort of care and passion behind that. How is, I mean, is there any, how easy is
• 23:58
  it to bring in a rabbit, one maybe that you've already got then? If somebody's listening to this
• 24:02
  and they hear, oh, I've already got one rabbit, I really actually would like to get a second one
• 24:06
  based on what Carrie said and some of the things I've been thinking about. How easy it is for them
• 24:10
  to bring in a second? Is there any advice, quick advice you could give around that? I think the
• 24:16
  best thing to do in that situation is to find a rescue in your area that offers a bonding service
• 24:21
  because there are a lot of them around the country and they will actually take your bunny for an
• 24:27
  amount of time and they will go through the bonding process for you. The difficulty with going and
• 24:33
  getting just another single rabbit and then introducing them is, kind of goes back to what
• 24:37
  I was saying at the beginning, in that rabbits have very unique personalities and you don't know
• 24:41
  the personality of that rabbit until you've got them at home. And I speak to people all week about
• 24:47
  this, that they've gone and got another bunny for their single rabbit and they can't bond them,
• 24:52
  they're not getting on, they're fighting, they've had to go to the vets, they can't leave them on
• 24:55
  their own, etc, etc. And it's, yeah, it's very difficult to do that independently, I think,
• 25:01
  if you haven't got, if you've only got one other rabbit that you're trying to, kind of,
• 25:05
  force a friendship with your agency. But yeah, there are lots and lots of rescuers that have
• 25:12
  single rabbits because of other circumstances that they've been brought from. You know,
• 25:16
  that rabbit will be vaccinated, it'll be neutered, it'll be health checked,
• 25:21
  and the bonding service is usually part of the adoption fee as well. So they will find your
• 25:29
  rabbit, their soulmate, based on, you know, the number of rabbits that they have, rather than just
• 25:33
  you buying one other and hoping it works. We do have a bonding guide and, kind of, a method of
• 25:41
  doing that. There are lots of people that are in the situation where they've now got two bunnies
• 25:45
  and they're like, well, I don't want two single bunnies. And I was speaking to a woman this week,
• 25:50
  actually, and I said she had gone through, she'd used a bonding coach, she'd used a bonding
• 25:57
  service, somebody had come and tried to bond them, somebody had taken both the rabbits and
• 26:01
  tried to bond them and they just weren't getting on. And I said, well, your only really option is
• 26:07
  to find a friend for each of them. So now, looking at the possibility of, like, having four rabbits
• 26:13
  rather than two. So yeah, I would definitely recommend looking for, like, a bonding service.
• 26:21
  That's brilliant.
• 26:22
  Because they do exist. So yeah, start finding one.
• 26:25
  That's news to me, but I'm glad we're able to share that with people because I didn't know
• 26:29
  about that. But that is a really helpful thing. So if anyone's listening, check out for a local
• 26:34
  bonding service from your rescues. Yeah, thanks.
• 26:37
  I know, I didn't know either. It's kind of like dating, not dating for bunnies, speed dating or,
• 26:41
  like, soulmates, isn't it? Kind of find your perfect match.
• 26:45
  Last week that they were taking their rabbit to a, like, a bunny dating class where they kind of
• 26:51
  have their bunny introduced to other bunnies and see who they get on with and then they'll
• 26:56
  take the bonding process even further. I think that's adorable.
• 27:00
  Yeah, that's amazing. I can see an app in the future, forgetmatch.com. We can have, like,
• 27:04
  bunnymatch.com, can't we? Yeah, definitely.
• 27:07
  People who own unique personalities, of course they want to find a friend who they get on with.
• 27:11
  We don't all get on, do we? So, like, you know, you can't put two humans together,
• 27:15
  so it doesn't always work. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've seen
• 27:19
  these supposedly cute videos of rabbits that are grooming, like, soft toys and cushions and rugs
• 27:27
  and things. And people saying, oh my goodness, that's so cute. And my heart's breaking watching
• 27:33
  it because that poor rabbit is so desperate to perform their natural behaviours with another
• 27:38
  rabbit that they're literally grooming a cushion. I find it quite neglectful,
• 27:42
  with it being a welfare requirement. Their welfare's being compromised, in my opinion,
• 27:47
  if they don't have another rabbit to live with. And, you know,
• 27:51
  people will still come for me for saying that, but, you know, that's the fact.
• 27:56
  Yeah, and say they have found their friend, they've found their soulmate, their best friend
• 28:08
  or the love of their life. What else do you do to sort of improve that rabbit care and welfare
• 28:14
  for those rabbits? What are the other things? Because I think your socials are full of
• 28:18
  great ideas and suggestions. Yeah, so enrichment is a massive part of what we do. We have
• 28:26
  it's called the Solve, Destroy, Explore method. So every day they have something to explore,
• 28:32
  something to destroy, something to solve. And it sounds kind of really overcomplicated in that it
• 28:38
  would take a lot of time. And, you know, I'm really, really busy away from the rabbits as
• 28:43
  well. I'm a teacher, I'm a mum, I've got a busy house, I've got other pets, but it's very, very
• 28:49
  simple kind of DIY things that you can do for your buddies to keep them entertained and to keep them
• 28:54
  enriched during the day. And there's loads of different ideas on the checklist that we provide
• 29:01
  as well that we use in all of our socials, using things even like toilet roll tubes and
• 29:07
  cardboard boxes, just clear tub with like loads of digging material in and ball pit balls, which
• 29:13
  go flying absolutely everywhere. Yeah, there's just so many kind of easy, simple things that
• 29:19
  you can do during the day just to give them something to do other than just sat looking at
• 29:25
  the sky or whatever it is that they do. Yeah, I mean, I'm just imagining it now that I'm surrounded
• 29:32
  by these wonderful kind of toilet rolls and things that, yeah, I mean, brilliant really.
• 29:37
  I watched one of your videos a few days ago where you were preparing everything and you had like a
• 29:41
  really amazing checklist of stuff to help and kind of like a little diary planner thing. I thought it
• 29:48
  was an amazing little tool that other people could perhaps use and download for themselves. Yeah,
• 29:54
  definitely. Well, I made it for myself just to kind of make it easier because I'm a lister,
• 29:58
  I love planning and organising things. So I just thought it was, you know, it was a nice easy way
• 30:02
  for me to have it just packed up and make sure that I knew what I was doing. I could have everything
• 30:06
  prepared for the week. I get up really, really early for my job and to get my kids to breakfast
• 30:12
  clubs and things like that. So, you know, it needs to be something that's like quick and easy to sort
• 30:16
  out and give to them in the morning and when I get back from work. So, yeah, I put it on my Etsy as
• 30:23
  well. And yeah, people have been downloading it. It's lovely to see, to know that there are some
• 30:29
  bunnies wherever they are, you know, that are getting these enrichment things for the day.
• 30:36
  It's lovely. You're helping the lives of other bunnies and that's really nice.
• 30:40
  Yeah. And of busy, busy pet parents, right? Or bunny parents because I don't know how you
• 30:45
  fit it all in with the things you've just described. But yeah, the planner sounds brilliant.
• 30:49
  I wonder if we can adapt it for me as a dog mum. There's things to think about.
• 30:53
  So say someone's listened today, they're really inspired by what you've shared. They're thinking
• 30:59
  of getting a bunny, hopefully two bunnies or more so that they have their friends. What's the
• 31:05
  best advice you could give for anyone considering a bunny as a pet right now?
• 31:09
  I would say definitely research, just research absolutely everything. Go to the Rabbit Welfare
• 31:16
  Association Fund, have a look at their five welfare requirements and be really honest with
• 31:21
  yourself about whether you can actually adhere to those requirements. I spoke to a lady on my
• 31:26
  live, we do a bunny clinic on a Sunday morning and a lady was asking me loads and loads of questions.
• 31:31
  She was thinking about getting a rabbit for her daughter and I showed her my setup, feeding
• 31:36
  routine, the enrichment, all of this. And she said, thanks so much, but I've decided I'm not
• 31:40
  going to get a rabbit. I think I'm not going to be able to do what you're doing. And I think
• 31:46
  actually I don't have the time to put into having a rabbit. And I thought, you know what, amazing,
• 31:50
  because you've researched, you've listened to the advice and you've decided that if you can't
• 31:57
  offer that, then it's probably not the pet for you. There's a lot that goes into caring for a
• 32:03
  rabbit properly. They need to have minimum 3 by 2 by 1 metre space requirements. And that's not
• 32:11
  just kind of during daylight hours, that's 24 seven. So not being locked up in a cage or a
• 32:16
  hutch overnight, that's not what's recommended. Having it predator proofed as well so that nothing
• 32:22
  can get in, they can't get out. Asking yourself if realistically you could afford to spend
• 32:28
  £20, £30 a week on fresh vegetables as well and fresh greens and herbs that they need.
• 32:34
  Do they have access to an exotic vet in their area that has specialist training on lagomorphs?
• 32:42
  Can you insure your rabbits? I think people definitely don't anticipate how much that they
• 32:48
  can cost to keep and how much time is required for them to bond with you properly as well.
• 32:53
  My situation is quite different because the bunnies were rescues anyway, but I spent hours
• 32:57
  and hours and hours and hours literally just sat in their enclosure, not trying to stroke them,
• 33:03
  not trying to do anything with them. Just a neutral background safe energy so that they
• 33:10
  could bond with me without any pressure on them and their space requirements and their boundaries.
• 33:17
  And I don't think people realise that they do need to do that. And I think that's why they're so
• 33:24
  popular because they're so cute and they're so widely available, but also why they're then the
• 33:28
  most abandoned pet in the UK as well, because then people realise that they've kind of been missled
• 33:35
  a bit of a dream by the pet shops. And they realise that realistically they don't have the time
• 33:41
  and often don't have the finances to properly sustain a life that a rabbit needs.
• 33:46
  Yeah, because I think lots of people kind of want to do their best and you can feel the love from a
• 33:51
  lot of people for an animal. But you're absolutely right. I think there has to be a reality check
• 33:58
  around some of it in that there is a cost involved. Your animal may get sick. You do need to
• 34:03
  get the best food. You need to maybe replace an enclosure. You need to get a new enclosure. You
• 34:08
  might need to get all these enrichment tools and things. And I do think it's important that people
• 34:13
  understand that and are prepared to put that in place when they're going to get an animal.
• 34:19
  It's not just about, you know, I appreciate you have all the love in the world and that is such
• 34:25
  a gorgeous thing, but the practical thing needs to come alongside it. And you're absolutely right.
• 34:30
  Yeah. I mean, I've always said that some of the most neglected rabbits out there are actually in
• 34:35
  the hands of people who love them dearly, but they just don't have the right information.
• 34:42
  And that's really hard for someone to hear. You know, when they contact me,
• 34:45
  they show me pictures of their rabbits and I say, have you got this? Are you doing this? And,
• 34:51
  you know, it's quite hard for them to hear that what they're doing is their best,
• 34:55
  but actually it's not right for the rabbit. And it's not enough for the rabbit. And, you know,
• 35:00
  that's why we are so passionate about being, you know, friendly and approachable and educational,
• 35:06
  because people rarely take advice on board if their hackles are up. If I'm, you know, going in,
• 35:12
  crashing, blazing, you know, that's not going to get anywhere. And that rabbit is still,
• 35:17
  that person is going to block me. They're not going to engage with me. And that rabbit is still
• 35:21
  going to, you know, be stuck in the environment that they're in. So we get messages constantly,
• 35:27
  all day, every day. And I answer every single one just to, you know, help anywhere, even people
• 35:35
  in America and, you know, all over. So, you know, we want to make sure that what we're doing is
• 35:41
  friendly, is approachable, it's supportive. We're not here to tell you that what you're doing is
• 35:48
  wrong. We're just saying that maybe you need some better advice and some better education around
• 35:54
  your rabbit's welfare. Yeah. Helping poor. That's what you're offering. I wish you were around when
• 36:00
  I was younger because I did have a rabbit and hearing what you've said today, I know I definitely
• 36:04
  didn't follow those things. So I do have a lot of guilt around that. But I was a child. But yeah,
• 36:11
  I just wish that there was social media back in the day and I'd kind of stumbled on your account.
• 36:17
  Well, this is it. I think, like, you know, back in the day, this is what we want to do. This is
• 36:20
  why we're here. Because back in the day, it was hard to get accessible, lovely, relatable advice
• 36:26
  about taking care of your animal. You had to do a lot of extra reading or you had to seek out
• 36:30
  experts. And thank God there's people like you, Carrie, around who can just present this. Like
• 36:35
  you said, you do a clinic and it'd be good to talk about a bit more about that in a second,
• 36:38
  about some of the ways people can find out a bit more from you. You mentioned you have the Etsy
• 36:43
  shop, which is great. But what other socials are you on? So we're on TikTok and Instagram.
• 36:51
  So you can find us on there. It's at the underscore hunsbuns. So yeah, we do a theme,
• 36:58
  a different theme every week. And each day we take like a different angle on that theme and
• 37:03
  all the clips and everything I do is based on my own personal rabbit care. I would never, you know,
• 37:09
  recommend to do anything or buy anything or anything that I wasn't actually using with my
• 37:14
  own bunnies. Everything I use, I have researched completely. I've been in touch with the brands
• 37:22
  themselves. I've even been out to hemp beds, which is, I didn't realise something that I've
• 37:27
  used a lot. It's like a bedding material and found out from looking at their website that
• 37:33
  they were about 20 minutes down the road from me. So I rang them and said, can I come and see how
• 37:37
  it's made? I think the guy was a bit like, yeah, that's absolutely fine. But yeah, it was amazing.
• 37:43
  Went last Friday to have a look at how they make it and yeah, brilliant. So, you know, everything
• 37:48
  that I use and recommend, you know, I'm doing with, you know, the absolute best knowledge that
• 37:54
  I have so that I know that what I'm recommending, I personally feel really, really confident about
• 38:00
  it. Because I think in the bunny community, particularly, and with you guys in the,
• 38:06
  you know, in the just the general pet community, it's very, very trust based. People want to be
• 38:12
  able to trust you and what you're saying. And that I take that really, really seriously. That's
• 38:17
  really important to me. So yeah, if I'm, if you see me on my socials and I'm recommending
• 38:23
  this insurance or that vegetable, you know, you can be assured that I have really,
• 38:29
  really done my digging around. That's good to know. And we'll link all of your platforms on
• 38:34
  the podcast so people can find them below. So yeah, go and seek those out if you want some
• 38:38
  more information. But you can, you can absolutely tell you're so dedicated and very well educated
• 38:43
  and passionate about this. So you've got a lot of great advice and lots of different things that
• 38:47
  people can access straight away and learn more. So I hope everybody's found that really interesting.
• 38:52
  No, definitely. Thank you. And I think our values are aligned. That's why we were so keen
• 38:57
  to speak to you today because yeah, we agree. It's all about trust and you speaking from kind
• 39:03
  of the heart and from experience and what really sort of works for you and taking that knowledge
• 39:08
  and sharing it with others, I think is amazing. So yeah, really great to speak to you. Thank you
• 39:13
  for coming on and keep in touch with us. You know, if you get any more rabbits, if you get another
• 39:17
  three or some more, do tell us. You can come back on in time to come and
• 39:21
  yeah, share, share how things are going. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you, Kerry.
• 39:28
  Thanks for coming along and appreciate your time. And is there anything you want to say?
• 39:32
  The only other thing is that on my, on my socials, my bio is a link tree and the link tree goes to,
• 39:40
  people can download a free bunny essentials guide sheet as well. And that's kind of just like a
• 39:45
  single kind of fact file sheet, you know, that people can download for free as well. So yeah,
• 39:51
  they can find all of our, all of our Etsy store and everything through the link tree on my bio as
• 39:56
  well. Great. Check that out, everybody. And thanks, Kerry. Nice to see you and take care. Have a
• 40:00
  lovely day. Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Bye. So thanks for listening to another pause
• 40:11
  between us podcasts, like, follow and subscribe and we'll see you next time.