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497: Is Having Kids Later In Life Selfish? Are We Moving To The City? · Now That We're A Family

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Howdy folks!
• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the podcast.
• 0:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today, Katie and I get to do one of our favorite types of episodes and that is looking at your questions and answering some of them.
• 0:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: We love discussing these.
• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not only do we do podcast episodes on them sometimes.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just talk about them in our home.
• 0:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you've got questions or if you've got comments, you know, things you're working through in your marriage, in your home, you can check the link below with up to here about
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so starting off, this woman asks, what are your thoughts on having children in your upper 30s and 40s?
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is it selfish?
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is the children won't get as much time with their parents?
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's also an increased risk of things like downs syndrome, etc.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: What are your thoughts, Alicia?
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I'm assuming they don't get as much time with their parents because of, uh, like, like, their parents will die sooner.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what they're talking about?
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or they're essentially years with their parents.
• 0:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like their parents have less time when their kids.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would assume it's just death that is the concern.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's funny because some of the people that we know that have had kids later in life seem to get more time with their young children because their schedules at that point.
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think that's what they're talking about.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: If it is, I don't think it's true.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you get more time with your kids when they're young.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just think children are such a blessing, always, and siblings for each other or a blessing, simply for each other.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you're able to have more than one child of the Lord blesses you with that, it's a gift to that child that you have as well.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a gift to have siblings.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess is what I'm saying.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, with things like high risk,
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is interesting because living is risky, like children are risky, like that it's risky just to do the most meaningful things in life and again I'm not, I'm no doctor in case you know folks where we're wondering so this isn't like medical advice but I think it's pretty well understood that the current medical system is not indoors.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: children, right?
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not set up to economically, to really, it's the opposite.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you could say that that's just business that makes those decisions, you could say it's a more insidious world view that discourages people from having children, but you have to take that into account, I think, when you are reading online, you know, or medical advice or when you're getting actual medical advice from professional.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is like an agenda sometimes, whether or not I think the person giving the advice knows like they're they're working in a system that is against children.
• 2:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and medical advice is so fear-based.
• 2:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if we were to go really everything surrounding children is fear-based.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're in a costume's X amount of dollars over their lifespan.
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the truth is, when you're opening up your heart to children, you're opening up your heart too, a lot of love and a lot of pain.
• 2:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're becoming very vulnerable to someone and something that is going to be very out of your control and in God's hands.
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so you could lose a child at any point in life.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can, they're just going to be growing on their own as much as we pour into them.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be probably a lot of difficulties in navigating parenting, regardless of what God has in store for us.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I do think when it comes to health, I think it's something we can really over-italyze.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here in our culture, well, I'm a huge fan
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: of pouring into your health and mean-wise in terms of eating well and stewarding your body and things like that, I don't think it's something to scoff at, like I don't think gluttony is something to scoff at or eating nutritiously is something to scoff at.
• 3:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think there's an element of trust when it comes to
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: children.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what the Lord acquires of us in every step of the child bearing process.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whether we're 30, whether we're 40, whether he gives us a healthy baby, whether he gives us a baby with more complications.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: That child is only going to be brought into this world for his purposes and for his glory.
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And really, we're just the carriers.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, I don't feel like it's
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so much of it is outside of our control again.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we can't force a healthy pregnancy at 22.
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So even though statistically that's, you've got a good chance, there's people that don't have healthy pregnancies, you know?
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I do think you know, regardless of, um,
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: of, you know, the advice you get, regardless of, like, what your current take is on what's high to high of risk, what's to, you know, what's a reasonable amount of risk.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that you've been in lock-up with your spouse and then realizing, like,
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: like natural family planning is always an option here, you know, if there's not like we aren't the like have every single possible pregnancy that we could ever have family right I know my my seam like it because we've got seven children you know we're pregnant with our 7th after 10 years.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: of marriage, we do think every child is a blessing, but we also think that there's totally room in times where because of the health of the mother, because of maybe the health of your youngest child that requires extra care, you know, because of circumstantial things, implementing doing what is in within your control to have space seen.
• 5:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I really think is a
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: is appropriate right and it can be a wise thing and yeah and again you don't have to have any permanent procedures on you don't you know nothing like that but but being like hey we're not in a place now where we feel like we can do this um then yeah you can you can implement natural family planning
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I think natural family planning the beautiful thing about it is that you remain open to life.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what God requires from us is that remaining open to life.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if he desires to send us a child, he will.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But working within his cycles and rhythms and methods can be a beautiful.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: process.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: But also, I would just let you know that when you grow up in around families that have many children, like, a lot of my family, one of our friends right now, some of our families are down at their house, and they're pregnant with their 12-13th.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: 13th.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: 13th.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Very, very common, especially if you've been having healthy pregnancies to continue having healthy pregnancies.
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting when you look at those risk analysis features.
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It might be a woman just, I don't know exactly what the statistics are, but there are certain demographics that are going to be a lot more prone to having a child with more disabilities or more needs, which it's not to say though that that's not exactly what God has and the joy that he has for a family, even though it's going to be more
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, because there's beauty in that too, but, you know, my mother had her last at 46, you know, 11 children, none of us had any, any, um, extra needs, some of us were required a lot of attention, like same with your mother, and we just know a lot of, or she was in her 40s.
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: having 10 children.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just think there's a lot of fear monitoring out there and there's when we look at God's design and we see the woman's fertility cycle going into her forties.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then there is genetically
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: you can sustain them, you know, on average a woman that is if her fertile years are continuing going, then the Lord can continue bringing children into the world through that woman.
• 8:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, especially when you are in a marriage like a Christian marriage that like that's where you're bringing this child into Okay, this isn't like what we talked about with a Katie Fauston right this this isn't You know artificially manufactured you know break is the order you want to call it you know something like IVF Where there's all sorts like you really are
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: that would be kind of being that would be being selfish like you just want this accessory to your life that's not the fruit of a Christian marriage.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that your heart, you can you can rest assured that like hey if you're in a Christian marriage, this is this was designed.
• 8:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: four Christian marriages, like this is the way God made marriages to be, is that children would come from Christian marriages.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so there's a lot of rest in that as well.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Regardless of the needs of the child, you know, like how much time you're going to be around with those children, will you die?
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when they're still, you know, you know,
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so if the Lord allowed you to get pregnant at 41 years old, he will sustain that child just fine if you end up passing away early.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: As much as I'm sure they would love to have you around the longer.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I think outside of our modern world, these didn't really use to be considerations because the mortality rate was so high for children and for parents.
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: We weren't really mentally
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are you eating an apple on the podcast?
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't believe I did that.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me just reach over here and eat the crunchiest snack.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll do this really subtly.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I'll never do that again.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, Elijah's getting the hungry over here.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We got to keep moving.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think the devil likes to use that word selfish and twisted in well-meaning parents.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also you are going to get people that
• 10:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, tell you it's selfish and what's interesting to continue having children and what's interesting is they don't have to have a biblical world view to tell you that and I think that is kind of the first warning flag.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember when we had two kiddos who were 13 months apart.
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was pregnant with our next and at the time I was filming cleaning videos on YouTube and I had a lot of comments saying that is so selfish she needs to care for the kid she has and Alisha mentioned in every episode that we just came back from a business conference.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And while we were there, our minds were blown as to what is possible, in terms like just the limiting beliefs we had for how much time and energy and money you can invest in a business and how quickly it can grow.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that we have those with family too.
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: We think well that woman is X amount of energy and X amount of time.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so therefore the kids are going to being neglected, clearly.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, where there's just an next level that we can go to, and I think that election, I really discovered that right before the Lord blessed us with this seventh pregnancy, I was using those same arguments here on the podcast.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was saying I felt like it was going to be selfish to have more children, because I didn't really know the six that I had very well.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what I realized was it wasn't the six kids that that was in the reason why I didn't know the children very well.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's because I was putting my time and energy into other things that were selfish and instead of pouring into them.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's crazy how fast when you, again, we were able to kick into that next level.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not saying that we can be all things to our children.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we want to always be reconsidering this.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it is crazy how close I feel with each one of our children right now, and I feel like I know each one of them so individually.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a very limiting belief in my mind that, well, this is as much time as in energy as I have, so I cannot get to know them any better.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we cannot add more to this equation.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So God just, he can continue to grow us.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I do think, I second what Elijah says, I think that there's a lot of wisdom and natural family planning.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that God has kind of this built in a desire to not do that too often because it is a very difficult process for the marriage.
• 12:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not fun.
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're starting that at 35 and you're going to 45, that's going to be a very long time of staying on that.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I think that there's just built in desire placed there for us, so that we continue potentially procreate during those years.
• 13:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, guys, we need to jump in here and let you know that out of necessity, we are raising the prices over a Voper music academy, and you say out of necessity, I don't buy it.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it actually has shifted, okay, we were able to keep our prices very low for a long time because we weren't offering live instruction, right?
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we've added so many live calls.
• 13:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're needing to add to the team, okay?
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not only has the customer service load increased greatly, the teacher load has increased greatly.
• 13:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're creating more courses than ever.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing more live calls than ever.
• 13:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're sending out more badges in the mail than ever before.
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're also sending out more $10 bill awards for the six songs this summer, then ever before.
• 13:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: That might be the number one reason for raising prices.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, that's not the number one reason.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: It really is.
• 13:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: We want to continue.
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about scaling back what we're offering on a Vogue music academy because there's nothing like it.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've never seen any method where you can learn as easily, as affordably, and as fun.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: As you can, it will bring me to get out of me.
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're very confident in that.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't want to change anything that we're doing, and so we just need to bring more people on to keep giving you an excellent product.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so this is going to still be the most affordable way that you and your family can learn music.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we want to keep families learning together, we didn't want to start saying, okay, every child has to have their own account.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we want to continue offering an exceptional product to you guys.
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as a result of that, we are going to have to increase our prices, but it's still going to be very affordable.
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: it is.
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you sign up before we raise prices this fall, you can lock in that price, and once you are signed up in that course, we won't like raise prices once you're already in that price.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, there is kind of a time line.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to give you a chance to get in under the current price and enjoy those lessons.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: This also is kind of like, I mean, this we could
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're doing that.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why not?
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because we, we really, really fast.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a job listing.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So reach out.
• 15:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you guys, well, no, we'll do the job list is separate.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, a job listing is coming because then we'll, we'll lay out what we're looking for in the job listing.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So stay tuned if that's something that's interesting to you.
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I've got a question here since living in the country, have you guys considered moving back to a city where there could be more liberal agendas and negative influences on your children.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's funny.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've gotten to a lot of cities this year.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I say a lot, we went to New York for the first time.
• 15:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Loved it, we went to the Seattle recently.
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Seattle, did you say the Seattle?
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did I?
• 15:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: We did go to the Seattle.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where else did we go?
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: We went to Las Vegas, did not love it.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: That isn't a city we'd consider moving to.
• 15:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very to Nashville.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: We went to Nashville.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're on our baby to Nashville.
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah.
• 16:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's great to hear.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We found us a pretty solid cities.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And every time we've gone, we've been like, maybe find a move to a city.
• 16:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is it's I do think that there's just been a change in the air probably since I don't know if it's the like the mag away that came through in the 2024 election is part of it or if just like 2020 brought about like the 2020 was so extreme.
• 16:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do wonder if like there is an element of like liberals are.
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: reassessing their strategy.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, or they're kind of like, okay, that was a little aggressive.
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, let's ease up a bit because or, so I think all those things could be contributing to, you know, like, cities just seemed so hostile in 2020 and 2021, um, to Christians and children.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if that was my perspective or if that was that was what was actually
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I guess you're right and then Las Vegas and really feeling like
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: with the current, with the current situation, those cities.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, we wouldn't choose Las Vegas ever.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know?
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so dirty.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the other cities are like, oh man, like there's, of course, you could thrive as a family here.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's just kind of what it seems like.
• 17:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, kind of like speaking to what you talked about in the last episode about, like, the Troud wife, like Christian women, you know, have just been able to be Christian women under any circumstances, you know, in the history of the world.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I don't know if we've changed or if the cities have changed, I guess is what I'm saying, but we could totally see ourselves living in a city with our children.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that we actually, we like a lot of opportunities provided there, walking around, all that, even diversity or running into people that don't think like you, we love that.
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it's a wonderful learning opportunity, teaching opportunity,
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Someone that our brother just got married to our wonderful sister-in-law who grew up her whole life in Seattle, and a family of 10 kids, and we actually interview Molly and Eric Lollia, her parents, their two of my heroes.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I look up to them very much.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here on the podcast, and they speak to raising 10 Christian godly kids in Seattle, which is kind of a crazy city.
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's a city that's known for their, what would you say?
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like,
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: liberalism probably will liberalism but specifically there's a lot of gay marriage and queer behavior there it's like celebrated yeah it's very celebrated and so to raise their kid like when you talk to their children they're just so solid and incredible
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's had a different effect than what most people would think is we're going to move into this city and then our kids are just going to be swept away by the world.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're able to see very firsthand the debauchery of the world and not want any part in it.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I did, I do really prefer a place like New York where the identity is not a sexual identity, like the identity of the city.
• 19:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: like not vaguely or San Francisco or well like Las Vegas, I feel like is a very like straight but sexual identity.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just in city, it's just yes, just dirty that way.
• 19:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're a Seattle identity politics are very huge there, right?
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd say New York has more of a like immigrant vibe to it.
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were with like this melting pot identity.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell me like an expert on New York baby?
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is real four days in New York.
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is how I felt.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all those who are living in New York can tell me what it's actually like.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm saying in terms of bumping into the people on the streets.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: We were talking to... We did actually walk around these, I mean, we walk a lot in general, but just we walked a ton in all the places that we just mentioned.
• 20:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: We were in Nashville, New York, Seattle, and then we didn't walk as much in Las Vegas because...
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we were in like the city centers of all those places that, you know, that's where we are staying.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I do think that like when it comes to, yeah, I want to protect our children.
• 20:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like I think our mindset has changed since 2020.
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like when we fled, we did feel like we were fleeing Washington State.
• 20:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we really really thought it was the end.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we were fleeing to like try to enjoy as much life as was left, knowing that it was all coming to an end.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we started listening at that point like more post-Bellennial thinkers.
• 21:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're like, okay, we've got a build here.
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And really, I think it's less of their influence now in our lives, I think.
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, all millennialism has been like the next.
• 21:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's really cool.
• 21:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we've, of like, well, regardless of what happens in this world, the Lord's gonna build his church.
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're gonna be a part of that.
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: The regardless of like, whether America goes to Hell and a hand basket or not, or our state does or not,
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to really focus on building the church, specifically, over like politics.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe something that a post millennialist would focus more on.
• 21:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I would say something in my heart that's changed over the last couple of months is just my, I don't have this disdain for non-Christians, liberal, like liberal non-Christians, like I had before.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: that my heart was, I was just disgusted with the person, not even just the sin.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I was like, people that were, you know, whether it was people that were activists for, you know, transgenderism or, you know, gay rights activist, or people that were just like pro-choice activists.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I really in retrospect hated the person.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: and had no love for the person at all.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's just not what we're called to do as Christians.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, or even like the poor, like, feeling more likely.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we don't want to be around homeless.
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're, they kind of like deserve what they're getting in terms of like, oh, they, they've made poor decisions.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or, you know, they aren't working hardily.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or, you know, all these things that you put on people, where,
• 22:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a, that's been beautiful to see.
• 22:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the Lord's just really changed your heart and made it and and and I feel like you've really grown me in this area and just seem like they're a person.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're a soul.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: They need love.
• 22:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe all those things are true about them.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the day, they just need God.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that would have sounded so like I hated when people just hocks that way like back in 2020.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's like week, you know, like we need to own the lives and that's just not how I think.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's come from just reading the gospels again.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, Jesus knew God knew that the people that are homeless, or that are addicted to drugs, or that are confused on their ideology, can you like, he knew that decisions got them to those places, right?
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he knew that it was because of selfish, sinful behavior
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: like, you know, and he's like, you need to love those people and have compassion.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even like, and that's just kind of ridiculous that liberals have hijacked these Christian words that should be true, and they've been used those words to title programs that are not loving, that are actually not
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: showing compassion, right?
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a total lie.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like, of course, Christians, they care about women but killing their babies.
• 24:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And being like, whatever, if course, we need to care about what of course, we need to have compassion on the poor.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, we need to like, you know, have charitable hearts, you know, have giving hearts to these people.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And instead of having this, well, you're just going to, you know, induce more that, you know, behavior, you're just going to just kind of like, hey, like, I'm not saying you don't show
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: He told us he did tell us to love these people, you know, and so I think when I go to the cities now, and I see the homelessness, I see her, I see the transgender people, I see, you know, gay couples, I see as like, yeah, do I want to protect my children, of course, there's like the protector instincts that kick in of my heart as a ton of like,
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would say compassion for these people, you know, I'm not like I'm not just looking at them disgusted, you know, and being like, well, they are going to get what they deserve, they're going to be suffering and hell.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm, I'm sounding extremely like that's how I walk around thinking about people, but that was kind of how I think I was, honestly.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of just wanting to protect ourselves and our family, because you mentioned, you know, you want to protect your kids, but it's not like someone who's,
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: has a different, is confused on their sexuality is necessarily going to jump out and stab your child with a knife.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like there is an element.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't know exactly what we're protecting them from to keep them back from necessarily seeing herding people either.
• 25:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I do think our kids have hearts of compassion naturally towards people.
• 25:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they have hearts of fear when they see someone who's different than themselves or looks very hard in.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a beautiful opportunity to be like,
• 25:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it's convicting, to talk about Seattle, okay, so we are on the sidewalk and we're walking in the university district at this point, like around the University of Washington, and like a man who dresses a woman like in some process of transit, you know, some process of having some like work done to transition.
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: walks past us and all the kids are like what was that you know because it's like this person's this man you know six four clearly like mass yeah masculine we're in a dress like the whole things confusing and the kids are confused and um like what is it and I just told them what it was it was like yeah like some people are really you know confused they don't they don't love god they haven't like they're not Christians
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: and they don't know if they're a man or they want to be a different gender than what God made them to be.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the kids' response to that is like, so much like what the Christian response would be.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, that's sad.
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, should we tell them about Jesus?
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yeah, it's like really just black and white to I think the kids were like they're lost in sin.
• 26:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's our jobs as Christians to share the gospel of Jesus Christ.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't like,
• 26:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: they saw a transgender person.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's not, that's not what it was.
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they know that's confusing.
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they just confused them that that person's confused.
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that too, I think we had this heart for there's so many wonderful, godly, beautiful.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: families that are out on farms and out on properties.
• 27:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we love to be here, right?
• 27:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that because when we go into a city, you feel the innocence of the kids, just like exuding.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like you feel the joy and the rarity of a couple that loves each other, exuding.
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like when we're walking down the street, people are like, wow, there's a baby, they haven't seen a baby at a long time.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: They haven't seen a couple that loves each other with a baby, with other children and enjoying their children and a really long time and it's crazy to see people's eyes light up and their smiles at just family because it's like this flower growing through the crack in the concrete.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's not like right now we do selfishly really love our lifestyle and we do feel to like it's definitely the easiest way to raise all our boys and all our kids.
• 28:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very protected.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very wonderful work.
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So thankful for it.
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there are these elements where we don't want to hide from the city.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you want to take our family to the cities, actually, and make it a pursuit of something that we do, because people need to see that God's love and what he can do when he changes people's hearts.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think a lot of this came.
• 28:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I recently, and I've probably talked about this too many times.
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, we will get sucked into news, right?
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll start listening to the news or reading the news.
• 28:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And every time I do that, it's usually from, I mean, we all like listen to MPR, so that's liberal, or sometimes I'll see it from a liberal perspective.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: But for the most part, it's from like a very politically conservative, like the Republican perspective, right?
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, um,
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there is just so much disdain, disdain, and the rhetoric of political pundits towards liberal people, just to adopt that attitude.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll be like, yeah, Seattle's the worst.
• 29:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody in Seattle's the worst.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, New York's the worst.
• 29:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's so, it's the worst.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: LA's the worst.
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I had stopped listening to that.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then when I told people, I was going to like, oh, poor you.
• 29:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm like?
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are you talking about?
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, well, don't you know, like the mayor and this, I was like, oh, yeah, I don't agree with any of those things.
• 29:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you go there and I had a great time.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And there is just such an attitude of disdain for
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: like places and it's not even the sin.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I guess I do think it's worth Like when we were in Honolulu a few years back, they were doing a pride weekend, and it To see that sin on display was appalling and it was actually nauseating, right?
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where you're like I'm getting
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: because of how, and I would keep my kids away from that.
• 29:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we would keep ourselves away from that.
• 29:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: We want to be away from the festivities to drag shows.
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: To like, we're so invested in this play.
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like, we're those events happen.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's also times where those,
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: In those places, there's also times where those events aren't happening.
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And those people do need the gospel.
• 30:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, as you said, Katie, they need to be exposed to a marriage, like a Christian marriage.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: They need to be exposed to Christian children.
• 30:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying you need to go live in that but I do think there is an element that for us where we had a really selfish perspective of like, we're staying out of that altogether.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And from our experience too, we're taking a long time this question.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: People, like, like, conservative political commentators act like everybody in these cities, hate you and your family.
• 30:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I do think a lot of the policies are, uh, they're anti-family, and so people vote that way, but then you walk around with your kids.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't matter if they're like a purple-haired lesbian pro-choice activist.
• 31:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like humans are humans that when they see like a baby or they see kids playing together and like seeing who can jump off the highest step outside of a city building, like they walls come down and you can have conversations with, they're not out there hating you I guess is what I'm saying.
• 31:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we don't go to the city and they're like,
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're the problem because you're Christian and you're having kids, that's not been our experience.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, or like the environment selection I've gone into recently, where no one has kids, like most people are dating, you know, in their 40s and it's funny when people say, oh, do you have kids?
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
• 31:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: You guys have been married for a while.
• 31:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I say, oh, you know, we've been pregnant with our seventh this year.
• 31:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody is just like, we have not gotten one single negative response.
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody is just like,
• 31:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, good for you guys.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's amazing.
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're just, they have only been positive.
• 32:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're like, this is Las Vegas.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is New York.
• 32:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is just everywhere where we shared we're bringing another baby into the world.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: People are hungry for this and maybe it's different than even our parents experience.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is there's a city I'm not going to specifically name it, but I would say it's like kind of kid friendly like if you have two or three kids that's perfect but it's funny.
• 32:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel more disdain there with all my children than I do in some of these darker cities where they just don't
• 32:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so it's kind of interesting.
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes these kind of like more suburban towns.
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're kind of like, what are you doing?
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: My two kids are pulling my hair out.
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember this even in San Francisco, like this was a while ago.
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So a few years ago, because I think we actually Lucy was a baby.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember you were working.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was funny.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was funny.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: What were you doing there?
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you are doing the working thing and then I was out on walking with Lucy.
• 33:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was doing like a hair commercial.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you are doing a hair commercial.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was walking with Lucy in this was downtown San Francisco and the positivity, the positive vibes from everybody there of such different beliefs because I had a baby were incredible and I just opened up conversation and they're so willing to talk.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so yeah, that's, to answer the question, I don't think we'll ever like move to a city, just because we've never lived in a city and we're not from cities and we're small town people.
• 33:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I do think it is, it's so good for Christians to be in cities.
• 33:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's just, when Jesus says like, we know that you can do ministry anywhere, right, small towns, big towns, all those things, but when you actually have that perspective of like,
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm here to be about the Lord's work.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, those are talk about a plentiful harvest.
• 34:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when you're around millions of people, versus thousands of people, and of course, you could do the work with thousands of people too.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: People need to do that work as well.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to be more faithful to doing it in small towns.
• 34:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say another thing, too.
• 34:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're in very conservative North Idaho, and quarterly and unfortunately, like one of the parks here, totally has like a pride event.
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Come over from, so can't, from our more liberal.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so what do we do?
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, we avoid that.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: People Christians go down, they share the gospel and stuff like that, which is good.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we're not gonna bring our kids to that.
• 34:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that, so what I'm saying is, yes, if you're in the city,
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: keep your kids I think from like the nude parade and from the you know like queer activities and like you said that the drag show you know drag-wing shows and stuff but I think you can you can live in those cities and I'm still like be a light without having to just be living in that film like that.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I think kids get an accurate perspective.
• 35:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're perspective of sin-bringing death.
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's something that, you know, the documentary, shiny, happy people that was out.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that some people can, we can seek to be around people that look like us and act like us.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And while peer pressure is really great for our children and stuff like that, that's healthy,
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes we miss out on seeing that sin brings death, like the final end, because sin can still look shiny.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so anyways, I just think, you know, when you see someone like twitching down the sidewalk, and they're so, they've lost everything.
• 35:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so clear that that person does not have a lot of life or when you see, you know, a single person that has chosen to abort children.
• 35:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now they're 45 years old and they're tired of their career and they've been dating their whole life.
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the kids get to compare that with our fruitful home that the Lord has blessed us with by his grace.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, wow, I want this, you know, I don't just want to pursue myself as dreams to the end where I am alone and tired and sad.
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm actually going to say, well, just about the influence of children, I think that regardless of where you live, it's not the town you live in, the state you live, it's not the country you live in, it's like the core like three or three to five people that your kids are around the most that are going to.
• 36:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: have the influence in their life, right?
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think there's people that live in very conservative Christian, like highly devsly populated with Christian areas.
• 36:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And their kids still will get like in the wrong crowd, right, and get let us stray.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think there's it's just you have to really pay attention to like the core influences of those close influences of your children.
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not the greater sea of people that you're surrounded by.
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the fear and COVID to going back to that real quick was that we are genuinely concerned they might take our kids.
• 37:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or something based off of vaccination policy based off of school policy.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we don't want to put our kids in that environment.
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's why a lot of people are scared and california.
• 37:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And since then, even though they still these West Coast cities and East Coast cities still can have the same evil laws, you don't feel like they're just going to knock on your door and take your kids away.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That would be something that would like definitely make us move to North Idaho.
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Tennessee or wherever.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I have two questions regarding younger siblings.
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you maintain a healthy relationship with younger siblings who are still under their parents' authority when you become aware that they are making decisions behind their parents' backs?
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: For example, they may lead a double-life, what with friends or on social media, parents are often unaware of pictures videos, hidden accounts or other activities because these things are intentionally kept
• 37:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: All of the siblings involved around her 18 years old and still living at home.
• 37:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: My second question is, how do you approach your parents about concerns you have that had been brought to your attention regarding your younger siblings?
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's the best way to communicate what you know without damaging family relationships or creating unnecessary conflict?
• 38:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a sibling.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like there's some younger siblings that are kind of acting out in the parents don't know.
• 38:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, got it, you know, um, I mean ideally you've got a relationship with the sibling so you can talk to them first.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we've, that's an area we've just been trying to grow in and just if you've got concerns for somebody.
• 38:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a feels productive to just like talk about it with your spouse and then go talk about it with somebody else and then talk about somebody else that knows them and they're like, I know I'm worried too, like,
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it just turns into gossip, and it's not beneficial.
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like it feels like you're doing something helpful, but you're not.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so if there is a real concern there, I think it's, you know, you go to the person, you know, and address it.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I do think like if it's the case of like words, like, hey, this is, I know about this.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: like you need to repent and I love you enough so like if you don't I will I'm going to go tell mom and dad and you know like where I'm going to go tell whoever it is that they're accountable to you know yeah if it's like you find out something like of a married person doing something you're like hey I know about this like you're going to go tell your spouse right you know like and so I think it is start with the best what I would say start.
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I think that's really
• 39:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: for my perspective.
• 39:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what popped into my head, too, is I've made the mistake, these sound like more extreme examples, but I think whenever you're an older sibling, you're going to realize, well, hey, doing what I was doing when I was the age, you know.
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: standards have shifted.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I made the mistake of going to my parents for stuff that just was I should have just gone and talked to a sibling about and they probably wouldn't have been a big deal.
• 39:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it can it can lead into just being gossipy.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: hurt that relationship.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like Alisha said, I do think these situations are severe enough that they absolutely need accountability and it's kind of like tough love.
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It might hurt them in the moment, but if they aren't going to be honest to your parents, I think you owe it to your sibling, even if there's a riff in the relationship to just go speak to your parents about it.
• 40:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because because your parents have the right to know is parents as the authority
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: When it says, how do you go to them?
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 40:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just say, hey, I need to talk to you about something.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know if there's, this is probably just going to be different depending on what your dynamic is with your parents.
• 40:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you already have a lot of trust?
• 40:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do they respect you as their mutual respect there?
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, are you are you seen as the radical one in the family already?
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's yeah, like are your parents going to be more aligned with maybe the belief systems of the younger kids and they're fine with it right you know, but I do think it can be a blessing to be found out
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you kidding me?
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're saying, of course it is.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is such a, that is such a thing of grace.
• 41:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's God's grace to be, to have your sin exposed.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bring it, have it be brought to the light.
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like do it yourself, you know, because God and His goodness will bring to the light.
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: if you know, if you are his child, I think he will, you know?
• 41:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And life is long when it comes to relationships.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: If your sibling is a Christian and you are a Christian, then even if there's mutual pain over this, it doesn't mean that you can't continue to show them that you love them, care about them.
• 41:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, what wants best for them, you only did this out of the goodness of caring for them and not just because you wanted to see them get in trouble.
• 41:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still think it's, it's, it's, we're going to simply first, yes, give them the opportunity because maybe they've been feeling guilt about this or bad about it.
• 42:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like they need that little push over the edge like, hey, I know this is going on.
• 42:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is.
• 42:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if they maybe want backup support, be like, hey, I'll go with you if you want, you know, but yeah, make sure it comes to light but give them the opportunity to react exactly to, yes.
• 42:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, because the way that Satan works, he can really slowly see your consciences, you know, where it's really gradual, the proverbial frog in the pot, and so you're simply could truly just eat a wake-up call.
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where it's like, hey, let's actually think about what this behavior is, you know, and they're like, like, board-wheeling, they get out hard, like, oh my word.
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it sounds like if they're actively hiding it, then they're probably
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but again, they might just be caught in it and they need some encouragement of like where you're going to get found out either way, which way would you like to do this?
• 42:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, this is kind of a quick one that feeds into the baby thing.
• 42:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a new mom.
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: My baby's five months old now.
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: My husband and I very much want a large family with siblings, close in age.
• 43:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: My current concern is if the Lord blesses us with another baby soon,
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: is how this will affect the nutrition of my first baby milk production decreasing, baby not ready for solids yet, et cetera.
• 43:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know you all have had some pregnancies close together and I'm curious how you've approached this.
• 43:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is kind of to add a tag on our first question, but I feel like it's yeah, different scenario.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, um, it was the last part of it.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't even know what I did with it all I showed you.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, did you have any answer for it?
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I have a quick answer.
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Quick answer for it.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that again, it goes back to where's our value system?
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: My health on our value system comes below our children and our family.
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, even the kids' health, I think, again, this is an area where I remember reading a Weston and Price book and they said, your kids need to be spaced three years apart for nutrition.
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, well, that could be a limiting belief because you can definitely supplement and just
• 44:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It concentrates things so that you can get back up to speed, you know, and some women are going to have a higher nutritional value from day one, then a woman who might not get nutritional value back ever after having a child.
• 44:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So our closest were 13 months and then we had a miscarriage at 13 months or they would have been 13 months apart for that one.
• 44:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we got pregnant a couple months later.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we have a couple 16-month children.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: None of our spacing has been healthy spacing in terms of anybody's, you know, because any time we've had a bigger space, there's been a loss in between.
• 44:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like my body wasn't just healing.
• 44:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was going out to a baby that we didn't get me.
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's okay.
• 44:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's okay if our eldest he was breastfed for three months and then or maybe four months and then when a sister came into the world I didn't really know a lot about breastfeeding and when I got pregnant with her and I just maybe I could have done some stuff I don't know but I lost my milk at four months and so he went on this little like homemade goat milk formulae made
• 45:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's a healthy nine-year-old that's bread is a whip.
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I maybe he has some deficiency But at the end of the day, I'm grateful he has his sister over.
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what the Eredical nutritional amount he lost.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I think sometimes I, again, value health, prioritize that supplement very well, take it seriously, but it's like, if the Lord blesses you and you're able to carry another baby, there's an element of health that goes along with that that's just built in because I do think, um, sometimes we just lose the children that our bodies weren't ready for, which is,
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: You want to use wisdom in this area, but I just wouldn't, I wouldn't sweat it in terms of the ideal health.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we are not living here.
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are living here to glorify God and point blank.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're living here to glorify God.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we can do that healthy and we can do that on healthy.
• 46:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Our children can do that healthy.
• 46:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Our children can do it unhealthily.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's stewarding, whatever genetics he gave us and stewarding, whatever genetics end up getting given to our
• 46:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I agree with everything you said.
• 46:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm backing it up to the first question about having kids in the fear of different disorders, I think, coming from one of them, right?
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know which ones in particular.
• 46:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, um,
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, maybe autism increases, but we at a church where you're visiting a while back, there was a a down syndrome young man serving and like you just think like this is such a gift.
• 47:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was just such a gift to the whole church.
• 47:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was the entire church, and it was a gift to him, and I don't know, it's just whether, you know, with autism, with special needs, I grew up with a, you know, a special needs cousin, who's who's dual around, and there's just a gift in it, right?
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's just a gift in all those things, yeah, so anyways, this is what we're required.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It will be hard.
• 47:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it will tax us, and it will push us, and it will
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I still live with my, I mean, my and uncle are not going to be empty nesters and he's ever 40s, right?
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like that is, um, and, and yet there's a gift in that right, too.
• 47:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's, he's the gift.
• 47:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, they're, I don't know, he's just,
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think there is an element of trusting God's timing.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, if you feel like you need to space your kids through natural family planning while remaining open to life, there is that, God gives us that freedom to do.
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then, again, if he chooses to send you children very close together, as he has with us, it's only been a gift.
• 48:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, maybe I think it's hard to quantifiably measure sometimes.
• 48:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like at the end of the day, we don't actually care that much.
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying this specific listener doesn't care that much.
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But when I see the drinks, moms are drinking, the food, they're eating, the things we allow ourselves, the treats, the whatever, and I'm speaking to myself too.
• 48:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, it's not like I care that much.
• 48:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was when we had the conviction, we said we don't have enough time for all of our kids.
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's like, what do we, who are we feeling here?
• 48:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah.
• 48:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're spending time every which way, you know.
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we could really clean things up here.
• 48:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And actually, you know, a lot more God ought to.
• 48:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can maybe compress these time friends.
• 48:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nutrition.
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or, you know, we could be harder on ourselves.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: If...
• 49:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: in these areas if we really care about giving our kids good nutrition.
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And instead of just being like, we're just going to hope the tank refills by waiting a subjective amount of time.
• 49:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 49:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: We should wrap it up, Katie.
• 49:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Folks, thanks for listening.
• 49:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk to you next time.
• 49:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bye-bye.