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Animal Misconceptions: Debunking Common Myths in the Animal Kingdom · Wildly Curious

0:42
Laura: Hello and welcome to For the Love of Nature, a podcast where we tell you everything you need to know about nature and probably more than you wanted to know.
0:49
Laura: I'm Laura.
0:50
Katy: And I'm Katy and today we're going to talk about how there are plenty of misconceptions about the animal kingdom and we're here to bust them all or as Laura says she loves busting dreams so we're each gonna we're each picked a couple topics on Some common animal misconceptions and then we're going to tell you about how they're very much so not true or or one of mine is like people say it and They don't quite mean it as literal as I think.
1:19
Katy: Some people take it very literally, some people don't.
1:21
Katy: And so that's what I'm gonna be talking about.
1:24
Laura: Cool.
1:25
Laura: Yeah.
1:25
Laura: I just glad to.
1:27
Laura: Not be back, but
1:29
Katy: Mhm.
1:30
Laura: norm more normalcy.
1:32
Katy: Yes.
1:32
Katy: Laura's been moving.
1:34
Laura: yeah, no no fun.
1:35
Laura: I mean, it's exciting, but not fun.
1:38
Katy: Yeah.
1:38
Katy: Just busyness.
1:39
Katy: Busy
1:39
Laura: Busy, Busy,
1:40
Katy: busy.
1:42
Katy: There's been so much happening in the news recently.
1:44
Katy: First of all, Hawaii's like The whole waterfront was burned to the ground, which is insane.
1:51
Laura: into the ocean
1:51
Katy: Yeah, which is just so sad.
1:53
Katy: And that was Hurricanes and downed power lines, I guess, is what started all that.
2:00
Laura: We were having, like, tornadoes here in Maryland just last
2:03
Katy: Oh, really?
2:04
Katy: Dang.
2:04
Katy: I didn't see
2:05
Laura: crazy storms.
2:06
Laura: We had, I was on the highway, they were like, there's gonna be 70 mile an hour winds, which is not normal for this
2:11
Katy: yeah, no, not for you guys for here.
2:14
Katy: We get it quite often we're still having wildfires down here in Texas.
2:18
Katy: Like just the grass.
2:19
Katy: It's so dry down here.
2:21
Katy: First of all, I can't tell you, I do not remember the last time it rained.
2:24
Katy: But it's so bad that even like a spark on the road, whoa, and so people who flick their cigarette butts out the window, and that's what, yeah, starts them all.
2:32
Katy: Um, and it's just hot.
2:34
Laura: I figured it was probably all the sparks coming off of all the spurs that you guys must wear down
2:39
Katy: Right?
2:39
Katy: Yeah, just clunking around.
2:41
Katy: Chink, chink, chink, chink.
2:43
Katy: All those texans.
2:44
Katy: Yeah, yeah.
2:47
Katy: That's amazing.
2:49
Katy: That's amazing.
2:51
Katy: But yeah, just constant wildfires.
2:52
Katy: And I feel like there was something else that I wanted to talk about that was
2:56
Laura: You did.
2:56
Laura: You were like, Lara, this is totally nature news.
2:58
Katy: Yeah, let me see if I can scan back through our messages.
3:01
Katy: Oh, but I do want to say, we've talked about a few episodes ago about the curiosity network my side company
3:08
Laura: And it's launch.
3:09
Katy: Yes, and it's launching everything.
3:11
Katy: But I did want to say now for the podcast.
3:14
Katy: We have our own our own domain and so if you go to the nature podcast.
3:18
Katy: com You'll see a little bio and then it has a link to our store and all of our merch and everything with the booby mug, that everybody and everybody needs
3:26
Laura: People were like, wait, boobie mod?
3:27
Katy: Yeah, go look at it.
3:29
Katy: Yeah, birds.
3:29
Katy: But so go look at it.
3:31
Katy: So the nature podcast.
3:32
Katy: com and that's specifically for this podcast.
3:35
Katy: So the nature news that I had found is all about flying ticks, which we've talked about our.
3:44
Laura: wasn't terrible
3:45
Katy: right Flying ticks.
3:47
Katy: Dude, aliens!
3:49
Laura: Oh yeah, like it's affirmed now,
3:51
Katy: yes, they have actually, sorry, flying ticks, aliens, I told you, all kinds of stuff is happening right now in the nature world.
3:58
Katy: Aliens, we have said, yes, 100% they are true.
4:01
Laura: Because it's more than UFOs Now
4:03
Katy: No, yes, aliens, like actual bodies.
4:06
Katy: Bodies, dude,
4:08
Laura: I told the middle schoolers I was teaching today.
4:10
Laura: They were, I was like, oh yeah, aliens.
4:11
Laura: And they were like, wait, what?
4:13
Katy: yes.
4:14
Katy: Cause
4:14
Laura: literally the government just said there's aliens.
4:17
Laura: I'm dying though at all the videos of like millennials learning about aliens where it's just like, yeah, but are they going to pay our rent?
4:23
Laura: No?
4:23
Laura: Okay,
4:24
Katy: or or the ones that are offering to go up there first to be like, ah, the dating poll here is kind of kind of crappy
4:31
Laura: Like we're all so cynical.
4:33
Laura: Like there's aliens and
4:34
Katy: Yeah, yeah Tell me something worse that we've been through
4:39
Laura: I said that earth must be like.
4:41
Laura: The biggest ball of yarn kind of stop.
4:44
Laura: You know what I mean?
4:45
Laura: Like, we've got to be like, since we haven't been taken out before now, then we must be just like a weird tourist
4:51
Katy: Well, well, and also, and also too, I heard the analogy that people were like, Oh, why haven't they just come down here and talked?
4:57
Katy: And they're like, why would people talk to ants?
5:00
Katy: Like, it's the same
5:01
Laura: We're so unevolved compared to
5:03
Katy: yeah, that, why the heck would, yeah, like, I I hope, I Oh, yeah,
5:08
Laura: I mean, I would talk to an ant, but
5:11
Katy: But most, and, and, and so, so probably the ones that are flying down here are the ADHD ones that are like, hmm.
5:20
Katy: Yeah, or the naturalist,
5:21
Laura: down to study
5:22
Katy: yeah.
5:22
Katy: just check it out.
5:24
Katy: And the flying ticks, to get us back to what we were originally talking about.
5:27
Katy: Yeah, Originally the thought was, that, A tick would just be on a blade of grass, you walk by it,
5:34
Laura: Yeah, and we talked about them questing, which I just love that.
5:37
Laura: Questing.
5:38
Katy: It says the good news about all of this is that ticks can't actually fly across the backyard to find you.
5:42
Katy: So there's not like an actual house fly.
5:45
Katy: Yeah.
5:45
Laura: They can't jump.
5:47
Katy: correct.
5:48
Katy: But, before the new study, we thought that deer, dog, mouse, human had to actually make physical contact for the tick to latch on.
5:56
Katy: Lab experiments showed us otherwise, though, because with enough static electric charge, ticks were absorb...
6:03
Katy: absorbed?
6:05
Katy: Observed! Good lord! Shooting across distances ranging from several millimeters to several centimeters.
6:13
Katy: Even wilder, some of the tests show the static electricity was enough to make the ticks levitate off of a tile and into the air towards their target.
6:23
Laura: That's wild.
6:24
Katy: So, they're flying, but, yeah, well, it's like a static charge, so instead of, you know, the static charge of your hair sticking straight up, it's the tick that's just, like, riding that charge.
6:36
Laura: bees and their pollen.
6:37
Katy: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, So, anyway, so yeah, flying ticks, that freaking sucks, yeah.
6:43
Katy: Aliens flying ticks.
6:45
Katy: Um,
6:46
Laura: Get me out.
6:47
Katy: It just keeps getting worse.
6:48
Katy: The other thing that we need to talk about news wise is we're going to be starting.
6:52
Katy: We haven't thought of a name for it, but coming up we're going to do a mini series within this season.
6:59
Katy: So we're in the football season Starting up here in a few weeks here.
7:03
Katy: Well, we're in preseason right now And even though laura knows nothing about football
7:08
Laura: I was gonna say, I didn't even know football started
7:11
Katy: it did it did it does we're in it.
7:14
Katy: We're in pre season right
7:15
Laura: Lara doesn't sport.
7:17
Katy: But we do know somebody who is pretty knowledgeable about football So we are going to Talk we're going to do 10 minute little segments on saturday for college football sunday for nfl And while that guy is going to talk from the football Perspective of who should win, you know the top Game or two of the of the day Laura and I were going to do kind of like an animal face off side.
7:41
Katy: So if they're mascots Yeah, if their mascots were fighting this is who would win and I have a good friend who he said that What do you say?
7:49
Katy: Hold on.
7:49
Katy: Let me pull up the text.
7:50
Katy: He said a few years ago He did this with his he did his entire march madness bracket based on this concept and he came in fourth
7:58
Laura: Hey,
7:59
Katy: think you know Animal face off that show that was on animal planet, however many years ago where they put two animals together who would win kind of thing.
8:06
Katy: And we're just going to do it with football
8:08
Laura: What if they're not?
8:09
Laura: Like, what if who plays doesn't have an animal mascot?
8:12
Katy: Oh dude, I already have so many good ones paired up.
8:15
Katy: I have, I don't want to spoil anything.
8:17
Katy: Cause it was the guy that.
8:18
Katy: There's coming on to do the football side of it.
8:20
Katy: This was his idea.
8:21
Katy: He's like, we just need the animal side and he doesn't know anything about that.
8:24
Katy: I know enough about football, but not to make predictions or whatever.
8:29
Katy: And so, that's where he's like, we have to do this together kind of thing.
8:32
Katy: But I, I think it's going to be funny.
8:34
Katy: And so when I was telling other people getting ideas for, what we could call the series and everything, I started giving folks examples and they figured it was going to be funny.
8:43
Katy: Cause it's you and me.
8:44
Katy: But then I started giving them examples and they're like, that is not where I saw that going at all.
8:47
Katy: I'm like, of course it's not because it's because it's us and it's our podcast and no one ever knows where this is going.
8:54
Laura: Left turn.
8:54
Katy: yeah, right.
8:56
Katy: All the time.
8:57
Katy: So it's still gonna be nature related.
8:59
Katy: We're just tying in football and everything to that.
9:02
Katy: So Aliens flying static charge ticks football miniseries coming up
9:07
Laura: Cool.
9:08
Katy: craziness
9:09
Laura: Alright.
9:10
Laura: Now let's blow some minds and break some misconceptions.
9:13
Katy: right.
9:14
Katy: All right.
9:14
Laura: Okay, first animal misconception, bears sleep all winter.
9:18
Katy: Oh, nice one.
9:19
Katy: Nice one.
9:20
Laura: Okay, so, at least in the upper northern hemisphere, we grow up learning that bears hibernate, and we're talking black bears, brown bears, and polar bears.
9:28
Laura: Any of our listeners in other parts of the world, your bears don't hibernate, so you probably didn't learn that, but the rest of us did.
9:34
Laura: And,
9:35
Katy: I, I grew up thinking all like that was just a bear thing.
9:37
Katy: It is not just a bear thing.
9:39
Katy: Yeah, it's just our
9:40
Laura: not even, right, not just a bear thing, and not even a real thing.
9:43
Laura: bears don't sleep, like, okay, so here we go.
9:45
Katy: Yeah.
9:46
Laura: So, do they really sleep all winter, or do they even really hibernate?
9:51
Laura: This is actually a debated topic.
9:53
Laura: You might not think so, but over here in the bear world, so traditionally, true hibernation is a state of dormancy or rest with the following factors.
10:05
Laura: One.
10:06
Laura: It should only be used for warm blooded animals.
10:08
Laura: Okay, so reptiles and amphibians, insects, they don't hibernate.
10:14
Laura: That's bruminate or estivate or something, torpor or some kind of, hibernation should only be used for during winter.
10:22
Laura: Hibernation should only be used for when the animal has greatly reduced metabolic activity.
10:27
Laura: When they're there, they lower their body temperature typically close to that of the environment.
10:33
Laura: Okay, so here's some examples.
10:35
Laura: So a ground squirrel, their temperature is normally 100 degrees Fahrenheit, but when they hibernate over winter, their body temperature drops to 32 degrees Fahrenheit.
10:46
Katy: Holy crap! I
10:48
Laura: So they just freeze, like, but they don't freeze.
10:50
Laura: That's the cool part.
10:52
Katy: knew it'd drop, but I never thought to
10:54
Laura: to just outside temperature or, or a little higher.
10:57
Katy: That's insane! I I Yeah, I never thought to look to see, what their actual body temperature is.
11:03
Katy: That is wild.
11:05
Laura: Yeah.
11:05
Laura: I didn't.
11:05
Laura: Yeah.
11:06
Laura: Their heart rate lowers, they're incapable of activity until they warm up.
11:10
Katy: I mean, yeah.
11:12
Laura: Yeah, just frozen.
11:14
Laura: They have extensive and complex physiological changes to turn basically from a warm blooded animal into a cold blooded animal because that's essentially what's going on when you're hibernating.
11:24
Laura: And there is a super, super narrow line between life and death when you're hibernating
11:31
Katy: I believe it! It
11:32
Laura: because the body's The body's only doing bare minimum and nothing else.
11:37
Laura: Typically their bones and teeth even deteriorate,
11:40
Katy: my gosh.
11:42
Laura: their cells are just like, nope, life support only.
11:45
Laura: It's extremely stressful on their tissues.
11:48
Laura: They have a massive weight loss and apparently, it's a big gamble and you actually might not even wake up.
11:53
Laura: Apparently a lot of animals don't wake up from hibernation, which I didn't know that either.
11:57
Laura: I was like, then why is this a thing?
11:59
Laura: but yeah, so those are, that is technically the definition for true hibernation.
12:04
Laura: And that's things for animals like bats.
12:07
Laura: most rodents, hedgehogs, and a couple of other things.
12:12
Laura: So here's where it gets tricky with bears.
12:14
Laura: So bears are not true hibernators under that definition because their body temperature doesn't lower significantly.
12:22
Laura: So a bear's body temperature is also normally 100 degrees Fahrenheit, but when they're hibernating it really only drops to 88 at the lowest, okay?
12:32
Laura: So it's a 12 degree drop, but It's not, crazy.
12:35
Laura: It's nowhere near outside air temperature, which means that the bear is always pretty warm and can be roused to activity fairly easily.
12:43
Laura: And this also makes sense because this is when mom bears have their babies and they can't be like icicle bears to have a baby.
12:51
Katy: Ha,
12:51
Laura: their babies need to be warm.
12:53
Laura: So,
12:54
Katy: Just like, shoot out like an ice cube.
12:57
Katy: Just,
12:57
Laura: Yeah, just ice cube tray, like,
12:59
Katy: Yeah.
13:01
Katy: Ha, ha, ha.
13:01
Katy: That's an image.
13:03
Laura: Yeah.
13:03
Laura: However, many scientists do now consider them super hibernators.
13:08
Laura: Okay, so they're true hibernators, but they're
13:11
Katy: Super Hibernators.
13:13
Laura: As they can slow down even without the body temperature.
13:17
Laura: So here's what actually happens to bears.
13:19
Laura: They do sleep a really long time.
13:21
Laura: Do they sleep all through the winter?
13:23
Laura: No, that is the misconception, but they can sleep for a really long time, even up to a hundred days.
13:28
Katy: Oh, wow.
13:28
Katy: Okay.
13:29
Katy: That's so significant.
13:31
Katy: Yeah.
13:31
Laura: I mean, not always, but they could.
13:34
Laura: Without eating, drinking, or going to the bathroom, and they have some pretty amazing to allow them to do this.
13:40
Laura: This is, my mind was exploding the other night when I was researching this, because this is crazy and has some really cool applications for humans, if we can figure this out.
13:49
Laura: So, they can shut off the genes that would begin to break down their bones.
13:53
Laura: Thanks for watching! So other animals, their bones and teeth are just deteriorating.
13:56
Laura: Bears are like, no, I need those, so don't shut those off.
14:00
Laura: They slow down their breathing and heart rate 75%.
14:03
Laura: So they're breathing like once every 45 seconds, I think it said.
14:09
Katy: Dang
14:10
Laura: Metabolic rate cut by 50 to 60%.
14:12
Laura: Lose 15 to 40% of their body weight.
14:15
Laura: They recycle their body waste.
14:17
Laura: So they don't pee, they actually recycle that.
14:21
Laura: Your pee is made from, nitrogen, okay?
14:23
Laura: They recycle that nitrogen.
14:24
Laura: And they actually get more ripped during hibernation because they use that nitrogen to make muscle while
14:31
Katy: Oh my.
14:31
Katy: Yeah.
14:33
Laura: the dream! I never have to work out.
14:35
Laura: Just literally sleep to work out?
14:38
Laura: That's incredible.
14:39
Laura: They don't poop.
14:40
Laura: It's just all recycled.
14:42
Laura: They produce a protein to prevent their blood from clotting, from not moving so much.
14:46
Katy: Oh, interesting.
14:48
Laura: And their cholesterol doubles, but doesn't kill them.
14:51
Katy: Hmm,
14:52
Laura: And, they have their neurons in their brain.
14:56
Laura: Get surrounded by these proteins, which is actually the same thing that happens in Alzheimer's and dementia patients, but unlike in humans, we, they're just keep building, building, building, but the bear, when they wake up, just flushes the system and starts fresh.
15:12
Laura: So if we could figure out how to do that,
15:14
Katy: Yeah.
15:15
Laura: major.
15:15
Laura: progress.
15:16
Katy: Yeah.
15:16
Katy: That's crazy.
15:18
Laura: Yeah.
15:19
Laura: Some of these adaptations could have significant medical benefits if we could figure out how to apply them to humans.
15:25
Laura: Even though a bear might sleep for months without waking up, it does not mean that they can't or don't wake up during the winter.
15:31
Laura: They move around a lot in their den to find new positions, just like you guys do when you're sleeping.
15:35
Laura: Can you imagine being stuck in one's position all, for a hundred days?
15:39
Laura: You'd be so freaking sore.
15:40
Katy: right.
15:42
Laura: So they move around.
15:44
Laura: They have babies, which they wake up for.
15:46
Laura: It's not like they just wake up and they're like, Oh, my gosh, I just had a baby.
15:51
Katy: Ah,
15:52
Laura: They have to let their babies suckle.
15:54
Laura: They can come out during nice weather.
15:56
Laura: If it's a nice warm day, they can just come out and have a, a walk them out.
15:59
Katy: yeah.
16:01
Laura: And they can be woken up fairly easily due to danger, bad weather or other emergencies.
16:06
Laura: So oh, there
16:07
Katy: a, what's a bear emergency?
16:11
Laura: I don't know.
16:13
Katy: Like, what would, what would
16:14
Laura: Close by picnic basket?
16:15
Laura: I don't
16:15
Katy: alright.
16:18
Katy: Bear emergency, quick!
16:20
Laura: would, there's a bear emergency.
16:25
Laura: like, if you pick up, like those ground squirrels we were saying, if you pick up a ground squirrel, it actually can't wake up when you pick it up.
16:30
Laura: It could start to wake up, but it's not gonna wake up.
16:34
Laura: Whereas, if you crawl into a bear den,
16:36
Katy: It's gonna wake
16:37
Laura: It's gonna be a wait.
16:38
Katy: Yeah.
16:39
Katy: Dang.
16:40
Laura: not that asleep.
16:41
Laura: Which is good.
16:42
Laura: It's good for the bear.
16:43
Laura: Why bother doing any of this?
16:45
Laura: The last thing.
16:46
Laura: Hibernation, of course.
16:47
Laura: It's about saving energy when there's bad times.
16:51
Laura: But the reason why bears are doing it this way is probably that it saves energy without the stress of real hibernation.
16:59
Laura: If you're a little, if you're a little animal, it's not such a big deal.
17:02
Laura: Let's say you cool way down.
17:04
Laura: To warm back up, you don't actually have to burn that many
17:06
Katy: Yeah, yeah, for A bear, though,
17:41
Laura: it said for a bear to go up from like 40 degrees back up to temperature,
17:46
Katy: but could you imagine how like,
17:49
Laura: cold,
17:50
Katy: yeah, how, but also if a bear was like that,
17:55
Laura: Well, it would have to, it said it would have to burn as many calories as a bear needs to eat in an entire day.
18:00
Katy: that's
18:00
Laura: it wouldn't be worth the energy expenditure.
18:03
Katy: walk in there and kick a bear and it, you know what I mean?
18:05
Katy: Like,
18:06
Laura: Oh, right, like if they were Like, frozen.
18:08
Laura: Just go in there and take selfies.
18:10
Katy: yeah, right, with all these bears, because they're just like a whole, like, pretty much a bear sicle, like, at that point, oh my goodness.
18:18
Laura: yeah, so bears do not sleep all winter, although they are super hibernators.
18:24
Katy: That's cool.
18:25
Katy: Interesting.
18:26
Katy: Yeah, and like you were saying, the cool part about all that is, if we could figure some of that stuff out, It could have really
18:31
Laura: Oh my gosh, the blood clotting thing alone,
18:33
Katy: right?
18:34
Katy: Dang.
18:35
Laura: to be in bed all the
18:36
Katy: Yeah,
18:37
Laura: And then of course, Alzheimer's and dementia, we've been trying to crack that stuff forever.
18:40
Katy: Yeah, for a long time.
18:42
Laura: And yeah, boy, I sure would like to make muscle while I sleep.
18:45
Katy: yeah,
18:47
Laura: And not have to wake up to pee.
18:49
Katy: right?
18:51
Katy: Oh, goodness.
18:52
Laura: animals have all the luck.
18:55
Laura: Bears have a pretty friggin sweet life.
18:57
Katy: they do.
18:58
Katy: I mean, mine is, you
18:59
Laura: Besides, like, being human persecution, if we weren't in the picture...
19:03
Katy: Human persecution.
19:06
Laura: Oh, come on! Like,
19:08
Katy: That's the bear emergency.
19:10
Katy: Human persecution.
19:13
Laura: that's what like a, what's it like for like a, like a The help button.
19:17
Katy: Yeah.
19:19
Katy: Oh, goodness.
19:22
Katy: All righty.
19:22
Katy: Well, the first animal misconception that I'm going to talk about is the misconception of lone wolves, because unlike what
19:31
Laura: Everybody's always talking about that.
19:33
Katy: Yeah, unlike what popular culture will tell you, there technically is no such thing as a true lone wolf.
19:40
Katy: And I'll get into that in a little bit here.
19:42
Katy: So in psychology and sociology, the term for humans, lone wolf is often associated with individuals who exhibit antisocial or extreme introverted tendencies, preferring complete solitude and independence.
19:55
Katy: Over social interactions.
19:57
Laura: Isn't that in, what's that movie?
20:00
Laura: Where they go to Vegas, it's like they don't remember what's ha The Hangover! Doesn't he talk about how he's a lone wolf or something like
20:06
Katy: I don't remember.
20:08
Katy: I don't remember.
20:08
Katy: I don't have to go.
20:09
Katy: I haven't seen that movie in so long.
20:11
Katy: Geez.
20:12
Katy: So those human individuals, might choose to work, live or pursue activities on their own, often valuing their autonomy and self reliance.
20:21
Katy: There was a term that's kicked around Sigma male.
20:23
Katy: So you have alpha male, beta male, Yeah.
20:25
Katy: Sigma male.
20:27
Katy: And
20:27
Laura: kind of talked about wolf pack structure.
20:30
Katy: in one of the
20:31
Laura: Like, really recently.
20:32
Katy: Yeah, you did for something.
20:34
Katy: Yeah.
20:35
Laura: Oh, it was for the Jungle Book.
20:37
Katy: oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was Jungle Book.
20:38
Katy: Sigma Male, we didn't talk about that then, but Sigma Male is one made up, um, by just like some random dude.
20:46
Katy: Like, cause Alpha and Beta
20:47
Laura: yeah, they like the concept.
20:49
Katy: Yeah, and alpha and beta males, those were, and have been, within scientific research,
20:54
Laura: yeah.
20:55
Laura: Although I remember we were just talking about, yeah, that it's not as clear cut as
20:58
Katy: it's not, no, it's not as clear cut, but the whole sigma male thing was like the, the lone wolf attitude, the alpha male is like the outgoing one where the sigma male is I don't want to conform to social norms, I like being off by myself,
21:13
Laura: it's just, a wolf that's got really shaggy hair that keeps just
21:16
Katy: Just flipping its hair out of the way.
21:19
Laura: I don't conform to social norms.
21:21
Laura: I'm out
21:24
Katy: So in both the situation of wolves and humans, when people often say lone wolf, it's a.
21:31
Katy: does it by themselves, not really a lot of support from others, if any support, and prefers their solitude.
21:38
Katy: However, that's not really the case for humans or for wolves.
21:42
Katy: So now let's talk about wolves here.
21:44
Katy: While the term lone wolf might suggest permanent isolation, it is important to recognize that wolves as inherently social animals, hence wolf packs, exhibit temporary periods of solitude due to a variety of factors.
21:59
Katy: Alright, so let's take one quick step back to so wolves.
22:02
Katy: They're highly adaptable and intelligent carnivores.
22:05
Katy: They're renowned for their intricate social structure centered around packs.
22:09
Katy: These packs consisting of closely related individuals led by one alpha male and female.
22:15
Katy: They collaborate in hunting, rearing of young, maintaining territory, They're very skilled predators.
22:21
Katy: Wolves exhibit strong family bonds and engage in collective pup rearing.
22:25
Katy: Despite past challenges, conservation efforts have led to a lot of, in a lot of groups, population recovery in some regions, which that's a whole other, that could be an episode in itself is just human animal conflict.
22:37
Katy: So wolves are well known for their complex pack structures and social behaviors.
22:40
Katy: The notion of a lone wolf often gives the image of a solitary animal living in complete isolation.
22:47
Katy: However, if we really look at it, there's really no such thing as a lone wolf because it's more what we see as a quote unquote lone wolf is more like a wolf in transition.
23:01
Laura: Yeah, that makes sense.
23:02
Laura: Just going from one place to the other.
23:03
Katy: yeah, Or, or for, or for one reason.
23:06
Katy: Yeah.
23:06
Katy: Or for one reason or another.
23:08
Katy: So some of the different reasons, dispersal, is.
23:11
Katy: One of the primary reasons behind wolf spending alone time and that's just a natural process where the young wolves leave their natal pack to establish their own territories and seek potential mates.
23:23
Katy: So during this phase, often referred to as dispersal period, wolves may roam alone or some do form small groups with fellow dispersers.
23:32
Katy: And these wolves are not true again, not true lone wolves, but rather just individuals in pursuit of.
23:39
Katy: Doing their own thing for a little bit because they need to find their own
23:42
Laura: Right.
23:43
Laura: Their, Their, goal isn't to be alone.
23:44
Laura: their goal is actually to find more.
23:46
Katy: Yes, and that's why they're going by themselves.
23:48
Katy: So yes, we as humans might actually see them by themselves.
23:52
Katy: And there's been some famous, there's been quite a few.
23:55
Katy: There was that one black wolf that was really famous.
23:58
Katy: Everyone's it's a lone wolf.
23:59
Katy: But meanwhile, it had its pack and everything.
24:02
Katy: It was just got famous whenever it was in this transition period.
24:05
Katy: And everybody jumped on it.
24:06
Katy: And then you're just no, it has its.
24:08
Katy: The whole pack now, there's also age related solitude, so as wolves age, they get older, shifts in pack dynamics can lead to temporary periods of solitude, older wolves, who are unable to compete within their pack's hierarchy, may spend more time alone.
24:22
Katy: So, I mean, they could be Kind of on the outskirts, they're not the alpha anymore, but they're too old to really go off.
24:30
Katy: so I don't want to say it's like the crazy grandpa that's hanging around, but I don't know what else, what else to describe it.
24:35
Katy: Again, it's not complete departure, but they just, hang around on the outskirts.
24:42
Katy: Another reason why you might see wolves alone is adapting to injury or illness and so wolves that are injured or sick They may temporarily separate themselves from the pack to recover because they can't either walk or whatnot And then they'll catch up later or if they're have an illness and they know that they're sick.
25:00
Katy: They'll go off by themselves And spend some time alone, but they still need to hunt.
25:05
Katy: They still need to eat and everything like that.
25:07
Katy: So You could see them alone from that another one, too Again, we already mentioned this one searching for a mate wolves in search of a mate may spend time alone until they find a suitable partner to establish a new pack with This period of solitude is a critical phase in the formation of the new pack because again they mate for life typically and so this highlights the social nature of wolves even in the midst of They want to seek that autonomy.
25:32
Katy: This is the last one, temporary disruptions within the pack, such as the death or absence of key pack members, can actually lead wolves to spending time alone until the pack's social structure stabilizes again.
25:43
Laura: just like family chaos.
25:45
Katy: Yeah, family chaos, so the whole pack may disperse for a little bit before they figure out who's the new alpha, couple or male, whatever.
25:54
Katy: So then, once that chaos settles, then they'll circle back up.
25:57
Katy: So the concept of lone wolves among wolf populations is more accurately understood as wolves in transition experiencing just temporary periods of solitude driven by dispersal or one of the other factors that I read.
26:11
Katy: Now, the social nature of wolves remains a constant thread.
26:15
Katy: even as individual wolves navigate through those transitional phase.
26:19
Katy: So similarly, humans, although most of the male, they like to say that they're lone wolves, prefer to not admit that they need others.
26:28
Katy: And the reality is that they do.
26:29
Katy: Just like wolves, it only makes sense to stay in a pack for survival.
26:34
Katy: That's why wolves do it.
26:35
Katy: The animals that are truly solitary, they still come together to mate, but there's nothing else out there.
26:43
Katy: You think of the clouded leopard and things like that.
26:45
Laura: Yeah, well, and they have their own adaptations that they don't hunt socially and
26:48
Katy: yes.
26:49
Katy: Yeah.
26:49
Katy: Whereas wolves have to hunt socially, but same thing with humans.
26:53
Katy: The truth of the matter is we as humans We're hardwired to belong now again.
26:58
Katy: That doesn't mean that you need a a pack of a hundred people it could be You're a small pack, but you still need People,
27:05
Laura: well, and even if it wasn't like a mental or emotional, at this point, we're tied together, just like wolves, they hunt to survive together.
27:12
Laura: Very hard to live off the grid
27:14
Katy: Yes, yeah, yeah, because you're going to need stuff somewhere, yeah, somewhere, and then you rely on other people for that.
27:22
Katy: Again, the notion of lone wolf, everybody kind of prides themselves on, Oh, I'm a lone wolf.
27:26
Katy: Nah, there's no such thing as a lone wolf.
27:30
Laura: No such thing.
27:31
Laura: Cool.
27:32
Laura: Well, my other one is one that I, we talked a lot about at the zoo, and it is that chameleons can blend into their surroundings.
27:40
Katy: Ooh, okay.
27:41
Laura: So, Boston, this one, we have we've likely all seen some movie where there was a chameleon that could change colors to blend into their surroundings,
27:50
Katy: Poke, polka dots,
27:51
Laura: right.
27:52
Laura: That's what I was like, plaid, like.
27:55
Laura: Just crazy stuff.
27:56
Laura: But even just plain old green or something, just to blend in.
28:01
Laura: Of course, chameleons are going to have some natural camouflage.
28:04
Laura: Most animals do.
28:05
Laura: They need to be able to hide in the foliage from both predators and the prey that they eat, like the insects.
28:11
Laura: And they could be a combination of greens, browns, yellows, cream, and some even have more vivid colors like reds and blues.
28:19
Laura: But in moderation.
28:20
Katy: Yeah.
28:21
Laura: And technically sure.
28:24
Laura: Sometimes they might lighten or darken in response to how much light is present in the environment, but not really to blend in, not to blend into the colors.
28:36
Laura: More to blend into the light, the color change.
28:40
Laura: is nothing to do with that.
28:42
Laura: Why are they changing?
28:44
Laura: They think probably mostly two reasons.
28:46
Laura: One is to regulate body temperature.
28:48
Laura: So chameleons are cold blooded animals.
28:50
Laura: They're a lizard, so they can't create their own body heat.
28:54
Laura: So they turn darker to absorb more heat.
28:56
Laura: And they turn pale to reflect more and cool down.
29:00
Laura: So it's just their own way of keeping themselves cool, which is pretty convenient actually.
29:05
Laura: Because most reptiles can't just change color to get warmer or cooler.
29:08
Laura: They have to actually physically move.
29:09
Laura: Chameleons are just lazy.
29:10
Katy: Yeah.
29:11
Katy: Yeah, right.
29:12
Katy: That's really the adaptation.
29:14
Katy: hmm.
29:16
Laura: The other reason and probably the biggest reason is communication.
29:21
Laura: So males.
29:22
Laura: display to show dominance and that's really where you're gonna get the bright colors the reds and the blues.
29:27
Laura: They're just gonna explode with color when they're trying to talk to each other and show off.
29:32
Laura: Females change a teeny bit to show that they're ready to breed.
29:37
Laura: All of them kind of change colors when they're scared or aggressive.
29:42
Laura: They usually turn a dark color.
29:45
Laura: And males are the ones that change color the most, females less so.
29:49
Laura: It's easier to think about a chameleon as a mood ring.
29:52
Laura: Our listeners who are old enough to know what mood rings are.
29:55
Katy: All of our millennial listeners know what?
29:57
Katy: that is.
29:57
Katy: Anybody younger is like, weirdos.
29:59
Laura: right.
30:00
Laura: And again, is it human anger?
30:02
Laura: No.
30:03
Laura: But fear, aggression.
30:07
Laura: Those kinds of things, their emotions, are dictating what colors they're changing.
30:13
Laura: But how do they change?
30:14
Laura: This is fascinating because this is actually, not that long ago.
30:19
Laura: So scientists used to think they change color like an octopus, which is using, pigments within the skin that they would basically expand and contract those
30:31
Katy: Yes.
30:32
Katy: Yeah.
30:32
Laura: actually, they just discovered eight years ago that it is not just that, or at least not that mostly.
30:39
Laura: It's actually mostly, the fact that they have these pigment in their skin called iridiaphores.
30:45
Laura: So think like iridation.
30:48
Laura: These cells contain nanocrystals that reflect light.
30:52
Laura: So Yeah, so what happens is when their skin gets tight, these crystals change shape and reflect different wavelengths.
31:02
Katy: That's cool.
31:03
Laura: So think about if a chameleon gets agitated, its skin gets tight, the nanocrystals are stretched far apart and they reflect longer wavelengths, such as the yellows and the reds.
31:16
Laura: And so they can, they have precise control.
31:19
Laura: Over these different cells in their bodies and can stretch and contract their skin in different
31:24
Katy: Also, can you imagine, if we could do that where you're pissed off.
31:27
Katy: Hey!
31:28
Laura: Yeah, literally that makes sense.
31:31
Katy: Just all the time.
31:32
Katy: I'm just so bad.
31:34
Laura: I mean, we do turn red when we do that, but it's not for the same reason.
31:38
Katy: That would be funny.
31:39
Laura: Yeah.
31:40
Laura: And so the reason why females and younger males don't change color so much is because they have less iridiaphores in their skin.
31:47
Laura: they don't need to change color so much because they're not Showing off, but, they just actually just can't do it as much.
31:53
Laura: Yes, chameleons change color, but they do not change color to blend in their surroundings, and certainly not to the extent that they show us in movies.
32:02
Katy: Geez, Louise.
32:05
Katy: Alrighty, is that all you have for chameleons?
32:07
Katy: That was neat.
32:08
Katy: Hoo! I still wish we could do that.
32:12
Katy: Alright, so the second misconception that I'm going to debunk, I might catch some heat for, because it calls out one of my favorite shows, Ted Lasso.
32:23
Katy: And I'm going to talk about the cognitive abilities of goldfish, and how they do not have short term memory, whatsoever.
32:31
Katy: It's quite the
32:33
Laura: That is a huge misconception.
32:35
Katy: huge misconception.
32:37
Katy: So there is a popular belief that goldfish possess.
32:39
Katy: Just a fleeting memory span akin to a
32:42
Laura: dumb, dumb fish.
32:44
Laura: yeah,
32:44
Katy: a few seconds.
32:45
Katy: Just a few seconds long, or as Ted Lasso tells his players, ten seconds, and that's why they're the happiest creatures on earth.
32:52
Laura: Those are two big misconceptions right?
32:54
Laura: there.
32:54
Laura: Pretty
32:55
Katy: Right?
32:55
Katy: First of all, yeah.
32:57
Katy: Not the
32:58
Laura: anthropomorphic of us to assume that goldfish are the happiest thing on earth.
33:05
Katy: Did you interview that goldfish?
33:06
Katy: No.
33:07
Laura: Apple just, of all the animals that seem happy, a goldfish?
33:11
Laura: Have
33:11
Katy: Because it doesn't
33:12
Laura: faces?
33:13
Katy: Yeah, half the time they're like bug eyed and they look like they just need to murder something.
33:19
Laura: We just actually haven't, we haven't been looking close enough.
33:22
Laura: You look at a goldfish and it has absolute joy radiating out of its eyes.
33:27
Laura: Just like a Christmas morning fish.
33:33
Laura: Just a
33:34
Katy: Joy radiating out
33:36
Laura: secret goldfish.
33:37
Laura: What is it?
33:38
Laura: I got nothing in my noggin.
33:41
Katy: nothing.
33:42
Katy: Cause it forgets everything, apparently.
33:45
Katy: Good grief.
33:46
Katy: So anyway, it definitely doesn't have short term, scientific research, And I'm not saying like this hasn't this isn't new information we've known and we've done research on goldfish for 60 plus years So it's not like the chameleon like oh, hey, we just figured this out eight years ago No, this is 60 years.
34:05
Katy: We've known that goldfish aren't don't have this
34:08
Laura: We've just been bashing on goldfish for
34:10
Katy: this is a whole time a lot of people also don't know this that Naturally, they're normally from East Asia, China, Japan.
34:17
Katy: But because they're adaptability and interesting colors, they contributed to their popularity as pets all around the world.
34:24
Katy: And because how easy they are to keep in captivity, that's they've often been used again for 60 plus years as the research participants for, fish brain spokesperson or spoke fish, for all fishes, because they're easy to keep.
34:42
Katy: They are pretty hardy, and because it's not a short memory, anytime anybody needs to do research on fish memory, they just use a goldfish to like a goldfish.
34:54
Katy: It was probably careful.
34:55
Katy: I can live for.
34:56
Katy: 15 plus years.
34:57
Laura: Yeah, I knew somebody that got carnival goldfish that got huge.
35:01
Laura: Mine died within a week.
35:02
Katy: sounds about right.
35:05
Laura: I did my best.
35:06
Laura: It was probably
35:07
Katy: it's a fish.
35:07
Katy: No, I was gonna say it's a fish.
35:08
Katy: They again, I feel like it's the same thing with the bird.
35:10
Katy: They either live or die.
35:13
Katy: So for the best.
35:14
Katy: So we'll talk about a few different aspects about how and why we know goldfish do not have short memories.
35:20
Katy: Recent Scientific studies have revealed that goldfish possess cognitive abilities that extend well well beyond a short term memory research has shown that fish exhibit learning behaviors, including habituation and classical conditioning,
35:34
Laura: Oh, yeah.
35:35
Laura: I, the fish at work, they're not goldfish, but the fish at work definitely I've conditioned for food.
35:40
Katy: Oh my goodness, Yeah.
35:42
Katy: You gotta like, any,
35:43
Laura: I just have to tap on the top and,
35:46
Katy: yeah.
35:46
Katy: all to the top.
35:47
Katy: Yeah, and that's, and that's no, yeah.
35:49
Katy: That's clearly not short term memory.
35:51
Laura: no, they remember from yet three, because I don't feed them even every day.
35:55
Laura: Like, they at least remember two days.
35:57
Katy: Yeah, at least two days long, not ten seconds.
36:00
Laura: It wouldn't make any sense, evolutionarily, for anything to have a short term memory like that.
36:06
Laura: They would all be dead.
36:08
Katy: And they would be.
36:09
Katy: And then two, I don't know, did you, what class was it?
36:12
Katy: In college, we trained fish.
36:15
Katy: and
36:16
Laura: Yeah, we, though, or we did the beta stuff too.
36:18
Laura: Like, we, we, we, like, presented and they displayed, I
36:21
Katy: Yeah.
36:22
Katy: poor betas.
36:24
Laura: Yeah.
36:24
Katy: Goldfish can be trained to respond to cues like giving it a cue to go someplace which further underscores their ability.
36:31
Katy: Yep.
36:31
Katy: Target training, which is further underscores their ability to retain and call information because again, they wouldn't be able to cue if they had a 10 second memory because every time it'd be like, Oh my gosh, what am I supposed to do?
36:41
Katy: Oh my gosh, what am I supposed to do?
36:42
Katy: I'd have no idea.
36:43
Katy: Now, going back to the research, so part of it, they started studying spatial awareness navigation.
36:50
Katy: So goldfish have also been able to demonstrate remarkable spatial awareness and navigational skills.
36:55
Katy: And research has shown their ability to remember and navigate mazes, a task that requires memory retention.
37:01
Katy: I probably couldn't find my way out of a maze.
37:03
Katy: Like I've been to corn mazes, but it's always because I
37:06
Laura: Well, and you're with a group.
37:08
Katy: Yeah, you're with a group, but I, I can always remember, okay, it's, that direction is where we need to keep going, but that's it, than that, my memory sucks, thank you ADHD, I have a horrible
37:20
Laura: I can't even remember where I put things.
37:22
Katy: So some of this research that happened was a team at oxford university trained nine fish to travel About 2.
37:29
Katy: 3 feet in back receiving food as a reward at the end Researcher said that it showed the fish could accurately estimate distance So the university's department of biology as their scientists wanted to find out if fish have ways of navigating similar to land based animals.
37:46
Katy: They used a narrow tank covered with repeating pattern of vertical stripes every two centimeters.
37:51
Katy: On reaching the set distance that they determined, the fish were prompted by an external cue, such as a researcher waving their hand to turn around to swim back to the start position.
38:03
Katy: Right?
38:03
Katy: Isn't this, like, isn't this really Yeah, yeah, go
38:06
Laura: fish.
38:08
Katy: the other
38:09
Laura: You're going the wrong
38:12
Katy: Again, this is like one of the very first episodes we did when I talked about the seagull research that somebody got paid to do this.
38:18
Katy: Can you imagine we got paid to just tell goldfish to go the other way?
38:21
Laura: semaphore to fish.
38:23
Laura: Yeah,
38:23
Katy: Just go the other way.
38:25
Katy: So the research then tested if the fish would swim the same distance if the starting position was changed and the queue was removed.
38:34
Katy: And then they tested that of goldfish would swim the same distance when the background pattern was altered.
38:40
Katy: They found that eight of the nine fish could accurately remember when to turn around to receive their food.
38:46
Katy: So we got eight of'em and then one probably just hap, yeah, A D H D fish is just happy to be alive.
38:53
Katy: Just trying, trying, its hardest but really just getting distracted.
38:56
Katy: 'cause like me, I can't remember anything.
39:00
Katy: And so again, the perception of the short-term memory myth, I, it does misrepresent poor goldfish, but it also underestimates their cognitive potential because they are pretty darn smart.
39:11
Katy: And
39:11
Laura: You can actually buy a training set for goldfish where that comes with a little hoop
39:14
Katy: Yeah, and you can make
39:15
Laura: you can train them to jump through
39:18
Katy: Right?
39:18
Katy: And so, because the misconception of that they do have a short term memory, oftentimes people just put them in a bowl and just kind of set away and forget about it.
39:26
Katy: No, they're actually kind of smart and you,
39:28
Laura: and give them something to do
39:29
Katy: yeah, they need stuff to do as well.
39:31
Laura: for a little fish Where did it where did it come from the misconception?
39:35
Laura: Do we know
39:36
Katy: Nuh uh.
39:36
Katy: They have no idea.
39:38
Katy: Because we've been studying it for so long, we know that they don't have short term memory.
39:42
Katy: And we're just like, where the heck did this start?
39:44
Katy: Because this is, again, it's not like something that we recently discovered.
39:47
Katy: We've
39:47
Laura: well, right?
39:47
Laura: It just sounds like a weird fact that scientists thought told everybody and then everyone was like, okay
39:52
Katy: Yeah, no, no, but I mean, again, it was on Ted Lasso, like that's a super popular show and and I have a water bottle from Ted Lasso that's on it and I only have it because the fish has a mustache and I really think it's funny.
40:05
Katy: But it says be a goldfish and that's the whole principle is just brush off your shoulder.
40:08
Katy: You play bad.
40:09
Katy: You know, just just brush it off.
40:11
Katy: Move on.
40:11
Katy: Carry on.
40:12
Katy: Be goldfish.
40:13
Katy: Good philosophy.
40:13
Katy: Pick the wrong animal.
40:14
Laura: Yeah,
40:16
Katy: Sorry, so goldfish.
40:17
Katy: Long term memory.
40:18
Katy: Not so, not so short.
40:20
Laura: Not so short.
40:21
Katy: Yeah.
40:23
Katy: Alrighty.
40:24
Katy: Man, there was a lot packed in that episode besides misconceptions.
40:28
Laura: Yeah, like almost half not misconsumptions.
40:31
Laura: No, like a third.
40:32
Katy: Right, Right, like a third All right, guys.
40:35
Katy: Well, if you go over again, check out the nature podcast.
40:39
Katy: com.
40:39
Katy: That's just our page They'll have the merch on there.
40:41
Katy: We're gonna be adding more to that.
40:43
Katy: And then If you don't go there, make sure you check us out on patreon or connect with us on twitter And reach out to us and just and just chat.
40:51
Katy: I mean be a goldfish.
40:52
Katy: And remember because goldfish because goldfish remember.
40:56
Laura: All right, cool guys.
40:57
Laura: Well, hopefully you learned a little bit more, which is gonna help you to be more curious and want to learn more, and that you'll tune in next time.
41:05
Katy: All right, everybody.
41:05
Katy: Bye
41:06
Laura: Bye.