Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 02 - Donna Francis on sobriety, perimenopause and empowerment

Transcript

02 - Donna Francis on sobriety, perimenopause and empowerment · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

0:02
Hello, I'm Doctor Louise Neeson and welcome to my podcast.
0:06
I'm AGP, menopause specialist and founder of the free Balance
0:11
app. My mission?
0:13
To break the taboos around Women's Health and hormones,
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shining a light on the issues we've been too afraid to talk
0:19
about. From contraception, sex and
0:22
testosterone to menopause related addictions and beyond,
0:26
we're covering it all. I'll also be joined by experts
0:30
and inspiring guests sharing insights and real stories, as
0:34
well as answering your questions and tackling the topics that
0:37
matter to you the most. So it's very exciting today to
0:43
have a guest from across the waters in America.
0:46
So Donna Francis, who is an award-winning beauty journalist
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and editor, and she's kindly agreed to talk about her work
0:54
and about her experience. So we've got lots to talk about.
0:58
But you're not from America initially, are you?
1:00
No, as you can tell, as soon as I open my mouth, I'm a proper
1:05
Londoner and I'm going to keep that accent as well.
1:09
Very good, very good. So tell me just a bit about your
1:13
work if you don't mind. Yeah, so I've been in the beauty
1:18
industry for 26 years. Not that I'm counting.
1:22
I thought when it got past 25 I would stop.
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But now I'm still counting and I've worked across numerous
1:29
titles. I started on Company Magazine.
1:32
I'm sure many of your listeners will remember that because it
1:35
was quite a cool magazine back then.
1:37
And I've worked on teenage magazine, Cosmo Girl and
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newspapers, the Daily Mail. I was at Boots for five years as
1:45
their beauty director and it was there that I introduced no
1:49
retouching to all of their marketing materials.
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And that's something I'm very, very proud of because I'm
1:57
retouched beauty, real beauty, authentic beauty is something
2:02
that's really important to me. And if you follow me on social
2:06
media, you'll realise that I'm, yes, I'm about the products, of
2:10
course, but I'm all about how feelings impact your beauty.
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And I feel like when you're bombarded with a lot of
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retouched images and images that just literally are unrealistic
2:24
and unattainable, then it's just going to make you feel really
2:27
bad. So I'm all about promoting
2:30
things that make you feel good and yeah, just celebratory and
2:36
joyful beauty. It's really important because
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you know, there is that saying that beauty comes from within
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and it's really important. And actually, I mean, there's,
2:44
there's various things we can talk about, but I think there's
2:47
two main things in my mind. One is the impact of hormones or
2:51
not having hormones on our skin has a huge impact, but also the
2:55
way it affects our mental health.
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So if we're feeling vulnerable, we're feeling lower in
3:00
ourselves, we're not going to be feeling as positive.
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So outwardly we won't look the same.
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And it really resonates with me. Eight years ago when I was doing
3:08
clinic on my own, I saw this lady who was really struggling
3:12
when she came to the clinic like so many people do, and a review
3:16
appointment. She came in and she was just
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like so many people do. She looked different, like her
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skin looked better because it was more hydrated.
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Of course her hair was better but she just had this confidence
3:27
that she didn't have before. So she sat down and she said I
3:29
just want to thank you because you have saved me £15,000.
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I said I'm sorry, how have I done that?
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She said because I'd booked in for a face slipped, she said I'd
3:39
actually decided I was going to have it done.
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I was going to lie to my husband and told him that I was going on
3:44
a holiday with my sister. I was going to stay with my
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sister afterwards. She'd had it all planned.
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And she said it's not just the way my skin has changed because,
3:54
you know, she had more wrinkles and lines and her skin was sort
3:57
of sagging and dry because we know the lack of collagen and
3:59
everything that's affected by hormones.
4:01
But she said internally, I just needed that boost.
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And every time I looked at the mirror, it just wasn't me.
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And I thought having some plastic surgery would transform
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my life. I know now it wasn't because it
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wasn't just how I looked. It was coming deeper from
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within. So she said, it's amazing that
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you have saved me all this money.
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And I thought, gosh, this is really interesting because we're
4:24
constantly as women being sold these things, products,
4:28
procedures, and it's worse actually even eight years later.
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So now there's so much about Botox and fillers and your lips
4:36
and your this and that and the other, and there's so much
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pressure and actually I don't think people are happier
4:41
necessarily having all this work done because you're just driving
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for something else all the time. No.
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Well, that's something I've chosen not to go down the Botox
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route. I've never had it and it's quite
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unusual in my industry and I've not got any problem with it.
4:55
You know, it's your face, you can do whatever you want to it.
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But for me personally, you can read my face like I'm one of
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those peoples, you know what you're getting by my face.
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I can't hide my feelings. And I'm quite OK with that.
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And I've always been about this kind of real beauty approach.
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And yes, there are times when I think, oh, I just, you know, I
5:19
could fix that quickly with, you know, a jab here and a jab
5:22
there. But I've now got to a stage in
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my career and my life that I feel like I really want to
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inspire women to not feel the pressure to go down that route.
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But also, it doesn't fix those things, does it?
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It doesn't fix how you're feeling inside.
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And I've actually found embracing my vulnerability in my
5:48
looks and sharing how I feel about my skin can actually make
5:54
me feel better, which I think makes you look better.
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I know it sounds corny, but I definitely think it's something
6:01
that women should be grateful for.
6:06
Ageing. I totally agree.
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And I also think this is such a shame that we are defined
6:12
sometimes as women about how we look, but actually it's how
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healthy we are is really important.
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And as you know, if you eat healthier, your skin is going to
6:21
look better anyway, without a shadow of a doubt.
6:23
Yeah, I mean, men don't get all of this, do they?
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They kind of embrace age and they always, you know, they're
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not backed into a corner to say, you know, they've got to have
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this done. But yeah, it is all about your
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lifestyle. And that's something that I've
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definitely noticed since going on hormones and also looking at
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my diet and everything. I mean, I was forced to really
6:47
look at my diet and my lifestyle when perimenopause hit.
6:52
Definitely. Can you explain a bit more what
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happened? Yeah.
6:55
So basically I went, I didn't even know what perimenopause, I
6:59
didn't even heard of the word perimenopause when I went into
7:03
perimenopause, which was about five years ago.
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And it's funny because now that's all I write about, but I
7:09
was going through quite a stressful time in my life.
7:12
It was during COVID and my dad had contracted COVID before we
7:17
kind of even knew what it was. We didn't know at the time and
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he was on life support. My husband was actually over in
7:23
America. I was still in the UK at the
7:24
time and he was over here caring for a sick relative and he
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couldn't come back because of the borders being closed.
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So I was at home, my dad was sick, my kids were being home
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schooled. I've got two sons and
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perimenopause. Little did I know was brooding
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and I was stressed. But I now know that it wasn't
7:52
all stress, it was my hormones going haywire.
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I was getting palpitations, I was just getting extremely
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anxious and I just felt very, very lonely and like I was going
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mad. I was very snappy with the kids.
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It was just, it was a really hard time.
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But you know what we're like, we just like suck it up, get on
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with it, don't we? And what didn't help, I mean,
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I've always loved to drink. I'm your classic grey area
8:20
drinker, you know, love my wine at the end of the night.
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And I think my husband was so worried about me.
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He kept sending like crates of rose over, like, I love rose.
8:32
And he would just say, oh, you know, have a drink, You'll be
8:34
all right. And so I kind of got used to
8:38
taking the edge off, or so I thought, by having a glass of
8:42
wine at the end of the day. And then it got to a daily
8:46
habit. And I hate that word alcoholic.
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And I don't see that I was an alcoholic, but I started
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depending on it. And I don't mind talking about
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this. And this is something that I
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really am passionate about now because I feel like so many
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women are in the same situation that I was in.
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And I was having this glass of wine and obviously or glass or
9:07
bottle, you know, whatever. And obviously it was making me
9:10
feel good at the time. Then I was those middle of the
9:15
night anxiety spells. The heart palpitations were one
9:18
of the first things for me. And obviously the more wine I
9:21
was drinking, what I now know, the worse they were getting.
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And I was waking up feeling so bad.
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I don't want to swear, but just really bad.
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It was a vicious circle. Cut to moved over here.
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I now live in America, I live in Florida, so cocktail clock is
9:42
very tempting all of the time. And I didn't realise that it was
9:48
really, you know, affect. My hormones were impacting my
9:51
tolerance to alcohol and I started blacking out.
9:57
I would not have loads, but I'd have a drink and then the next
10:01
morning I'd wake up and think, I can't actually remember going to
10:05
bed and it would not need a lot. And, you know, got myself into
10:11
some embarrassing situations, falling asleep in a swimming
10:15
pool, just throwing up in front of new friends.
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And I wasn't drinking loads, but it was just, you know, even if
10:24
it was a couple of glasses of wine or a cocktail or whatever,
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it would make me really, you know, just anxious and just not
10:34
in a good place. And I had a few of those
10:36
situations and I had this inner voice going to me, you've got to
10:40
sort this out. This is just not.
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And then I started writing more about perimenopause and I spoke
10:44
to a few doctors and I was saying to them, do you drink
10:47
like, and what, what does it do? When they started explaining to
10:50
me about, you know, how it affects your gut and your
10:55
hormones and you just can't tolerate it anymore.
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And I knew, I just thought I'm going to have to stop drinking.
11:00
And I tried. You know, the only drinking
11:02
during the week, Ken's didn't work.
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And then one day last July, I woke up and I kept what I was
11:10
doing is I was waking up in the morning and I was doing kind of
11:14
the walk of shame with my kids because they would say something
11:18
to me and I'd say, oh really? And they'd like, well, I told
11:21
you that yesterday, mum, and I would forget and I'd wake up and
11:26
I'd think, this is just not good.
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I'm not a good mum. I'm, you know, I'm not a Good
11:30
Wife. And I woke up and I just thought
11:33
I'd had too many occasions where it just wasn't going great.
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And I woke up and I thought, that's it, I'm going to give up.
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And I went on to Instagram, and some people say, you know,
11:45
that's quite extreme, that I decided to just not drink
11:48
anymore. But that's the only way it
11:50
worked for me, and that's not for everyone.
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And I went on to Instagram because I felt like it would
11:54
hold me accountable. And I told my followers.
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And the amount of messages that I got back about it was just
12:03
incredible and so humbling. And so since then, I've been on
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this real mission to kind of talk about it and share my
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stories and, you know, women that can relate to me or have
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the stories that they can remember that are similar to
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mine, you know, so that has made a huge impact on my life now.
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Now I'm sober, I've cleaned up everything else.
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It's made me health. I mean, I've always been pretty
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healthy, but it's like an on and off switch.
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I sleep, my mood is so much better.
12:42
My skin, or I mean my skin, it's just like they say, it's just so
12:48
clear and bright and everything is so much better.
12:51
Well people don't realise the impacts of alcohol and it's.
12:55
Thank you for sharing your story and being so honest.
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So many people find that when they're perimenopausal or
13:02
menopausal that the effects of alcohol are different.
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So people get hungover quicker. They find that they only drink
13:09
one or two glasses of wine rather than three and four and
13:12
get drunk easier. And they didn't realise that the
13:15
hormones estrogen or estradiol, progesterone, testosterone have
13:18
effects throughout our liver, but also our brain.
13:21
And our brain coordinates the metabolism of the liver as well.
13:25
So there's all these processes that are going on affecting the
13:29
way alcohol works in our liver. But also there are lots of
13:34
mental health issues that often occur during perimenopause and
13:37
menopause that people think it's because I've been drinking and
13:42
don't realise, it's because there's an underlying problem.
13:45
And then for you, you throw in something like Covad.
13:48
It's very hard sometimes to unpick, you know, is it the
13:52
effects of alcohol or is it the effects of hormones?
13:55
And that happens so much and I'm sure people probably have
13:57
contacted you really confused as to what's going on.
14:00
Yeah, definitely. And I think you're so right.
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That's why it's not so black and white, is it?
14:07
And you really have to kind of go into yourself and understand
14:12
everything that's going on in your life before you make any
14:15
decisions. And I always say that to any
14:17
women that are saying, oh, I'm feeling like this.
14:19
And I'm and I say, well, not everyone's the same.
14:22
And I'm not saying that you need to go sober, but it might be an
14:28
influence in how you're feeling and you might be able to address
14:33
it. You know, it might help you by
14:35
cutting alcohol out. It will definitely help in some
14:38
way. Look, we know it's going to
14:39
help. If you're drinking a lot and
14:41
you're reaching for the bottle to take the edge off, then we
14:45
know that by cutting down that it's going to address and help
14:50
your symptoms in some way. Yeah, for sure.
14:53
And it's so difficult sometimes to unpick.
14:55
But we also know there are health risks, of course there
14:58
are, of drinking alcohol. But I don't know, it's funny, I
15:01
don't drink alcohol at all. And I stopped drinking alcohol
15:05
probably about 18 years ago. And I've never drunk much.
15:08
But in retrospect, I was perimenopausal and didn't
15:12
realize it was before I'd had my third child.
15:15
But I know my hormones were fluctuating and I've got a lot
15:18
of palpitations actually like you were saying.
15:21
And I got not palpitations like at different times, not related
15:25
to drinking. But when I saw the cardiologist,
15:27
he said, well, I think you should give up alcohol and
15:29
caffeine because all my heart tests were fine.
15:32
And I did. And actually it didn't make the
15:35
palpitations any different. But what it did do is just help
15:39
me let you say, think a bit clearer, sleep better.
15:42
And actually I had less migraines and I'm very prone to
15:45
migraines. So anything to reduce migraine
15:48
intensity and frequency is really important for me.
15:51
So I was probably drinking, I don't know, 3 or 4 glasses of
15:54
wine a week at the most. It was never much, but actually
15:57
it was, it really did help with migraines.
16:00
But now when I say to people I don't drink at all, they think
16:04
it's absolutely mad and they presume that I had an alcohol
16:06
problem, which I think is it's quite hard because, you know,
16:11
it's irrelevant to other people whether I drink or not.
16:14
It's what I'm doing to myself. It's the most important thing.
16:17
And so I feel like there is this pressure on society.
16:21
You know, we were talking at the beginning about pressure of
16:23
looking good, but there is a bit of pressure that, you know, not
16:26
drinking makes you a bit unusual almost.
16:29
And I think that's really sad. Huge pressure.
16:33
Sober equals boring. That's what people think.
16:36
And do you know what? And I say this to my followers
16:39
as well, that's what I used to think.
16:42
I'd be like, well, if you're not drinking, you're not going to
16:44
have any fun. And it's so not true.
16:47
And that pressure on us to feel like we have to have a drink.
16:53
And so much revolves around alcohol.
16:55
And I think. Especially in midlife when
16:59
you're at our age and you're at home, maybe more with the kids.
17:04
Or is that yummy mummy? I mean, a lot of people don't
17:07
like this phrase, but the mummy wine culture, they don't like it
17:11
because it suggests, you know, it's quite derogatory.
17:14
But at the end of the day, it does exist.
17:16
Like there were those cards out there that you see all the time.
17:19
You know, you reach for the Rhine, it's going to take the
17:22
edge off. It's in front of you on social
17:26
media all the time and that's why I'm really passionate to
17:31
just say to him in that, you know you're not boring if you're
17:33
not going to have a drink and you go out.
17:35
Let's educate women that they don't need to do that.
17:38
It doesn't need to be the thing to have to.
17:41
Do absolutely. And in fact, one of my really
17:42
good friends was reminding me the other day that actually one
17:45
of our mutual friends, when I start drinking, when we were out
17:49
one night, she was drinking clearly and drunk probably a bit
17:51
too much. And she said, oh, I feel really
17:53
sorry for Paul, who's my husband.
17:55
I said, what do you mean? And she said, oh, well, you
17:58
know, he really likes drinking. How's he going to cope being
18:01
married to you who doesn't drink?
18:03
And I'm sorry, our relationship is not based on whether I drink
18:06
or not. And if it is, it shouldn't be a
18:07
relationship. You know, it's really so true.
18:11
And I think The thing is also when people are perimenopausal
18:15
and menopausal, and I see it a lot, but I know myself, it was
18:18
the same. Yourself esteem is often quite
18:20
low. Your feeling of self worth is
18:22
quite low. You have a lot of self doubt,
18:24
you have a lot of anxiety, so it takes quite a lot more to change
18:30
a lifestyle, whether it's drinking, smoking, anything.
18:34
But also these hormones that work in our brain, they affect
18:37
dopamine, our reward hormone as well.
18:40
So addictions often do increase during perimenopause and
18:44
menopause. So not just alcohol, but any
18:47
addictive behaviour. And we did a study a little
18:50
while ago asking women whether they were drinking more, smoking
18:55
more, but drug taking as well. So not just a bit of marijuana,
18:59
but actually Class A drugs. People were saying that they
19:01
were having more cocaine. Really scary.
19:04
And also gambling as well. And part of it is trying to get
19:07
this dopamine hit because if you can't have it naturally, you
19:11
know, you don't feel the same hormonal change because you
19:15
don't have your estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, then
19:19
you have less dopamine. And so people try and do it in
19:21
other ways. And then also, if you've got
19:23
more anxiety, more, more worry, you want to just maybe just live
19:28
on the edge a little bit more. But I was really struck by women
19:32
in the free text comments talking about how they had
19:36
turned to alcohol or drugs to try and escape the demons in
19:40
their brain, the way they were thinking to try and improve
19:44
their mood because antidepressants hadn't helped.
19:47
They couldn't be listened to by doctors, they didn't want to
19:50
explain how bad they felt. They couldn't talk to a partner,
19:54
they couldn't talk to anybody else.
19:56
And that makes me feel really sad because when you think about
19:59
people that drink, it's like a glass of wine having a laugh
20:02
with a friend. But it's not for a lot of
20:04
people. And definitely I see it a lot in
20:07
people who have hormonal changes.
20:09
And that really scares me because it's a cry for help and
20:12
they're not getting listened. To And that's why I'm so
20:15
passionate about talking about it, because I think it makes
20:17
women feel less lonely. But for me, I got that hit by
20:22
being ice cream, that dope for my own crip.
20:25
But also exercise has been my saviour in perimenopause and
20:29
menopause. It really has helped me with my
20:32
mental health. Like even this morning, you
20:34
know, I was so excited about coming on, but obviously you get
20:38
a bit nervous about doing these things.
20:40
So I thought I need to go to the gym and work out.
20:43
So I get myself in that right headspace and it gives you that
20:47
bit of confidence because you it gives you that open mind here
20:51
and it just then you're doing something for yourself that
20:54
actually for me, exercise is not just about the physical.
20:58
It really is more about the mental benefits.
21:01
And I think that's something that I've embraced more since
21:05
being sober. It was something I did before,
21:07
but I feel like again, it just self perpetuates, doesn't it?
21:11
It's just positives. It just.
21:13
Ticks, and that's really important.
21:15
For you. Yeah.
21:16
I think that's so important because I always think with any,
21:19
any addiction or any lifestyle that you're trying to change,
21:21
you want to add something into your life rather than take it
21:24
away. So if you say you must not
21:27
drink, all you're going to do is think about drinking.
21:28
Whereas if you say, let's increase your exercise, you're
21:31
suddenly thinking about exercise.
21:33
And obviously there are many health benefits as well.
21:36
And you know, obviously replacing the hormones is really
21:40
transformational for most women because you're treating the
21:42
underlying cause. But actually it's not just about
21:46
the hormones. You know, I do a lot of yoga and
21:50
actually that's really good for my mental, like you say, and
21:52
physical health as well. But actually looking at how we
21:56
can improve our future health, what we can do, whether it's
21:59
because we want to have better skin or probably more
22:03
importantly, better, stronger bones, a better cardiovascular
22:06
system, better functioning brain.
22:08
I think as perimenopausal, menopausal women, we have to be
22:12
thinking about responsibility for our future health.
22:16
And it's always going to be multifactorial and it's always
22:19
going to be different for different people.
22:21
But having the ability to choose and work out what's right for us
22:26
is so important, isn't it? Without being judged by other
22:30
people. That's the thing, and that's
22:32
something that I'm really passionate about saying as well.
22:35
You know, I don't judge anyone and everyone's journey is so
22:38
different and it's all about finding out what's right for
22:41
you. And also the other thing that I
22:43
want to say is that by addressing all these things,
22:46
it's made me appreciate myself so much more and that self worth
22:51
has come back, which is something that I think we lose
22:55
as we hit menopause and all the hormones.
22:58
And you know, we're thinking of everyone else and everyone, you
23:01
know, that sandwich generation, we're looking after our parents,
23:04
we're looking after our kids, we're trying to get a career.
23:07
And we kind of lose our sense of self and our self worth and
23:11
everything and we forget what's important for us.
23:15
And I think by making a little switch and addressing what I
23:19
needed to do made me realise that I was looking after myself
23:24
and it made me appreciate my own relationship with myself, if you
23:28
know what I mean. And I think that could be even
23:30
if you're going on hormones or anything, you know, advocating
23:33
for yourself is a really empowering thing.
23:37
And it just my mum always says you can't pour from an empty cup
23:41
and you need to look after. Yourself.
23:42
I love that to. Look after everyone else, yeah?
23:45
And it is so important. And I, I sort of feel I've
23:48
become more selfish as I've got older because like you say, if I
23:51
don't look after myself, if I'm not mentally and physically
23:55
well, I cannot look after my children and my husband's as
23:58
well, and everybody else that I'm trying to look after.
24:01
You know, it is really important.
24:04
And a lot of it goes, I think so much identity of us as women
24:08
goes with age, but also with when our hormones go as well.
24:12
And it's very convenient for society often for women to be
24:16
hidden. I talked about this in one of my
24:19
podcasts with Joanne Harris a while ago, the amazing author,
24:22
and she talks a lot about the invisibility of women and how
24:26
society is set up for women to be invisible.
24:29
And when I think a lot of times people aren't prepared for us as
24:32
older menopausal women to come back to society to contribute
24:36
more. And I feel very stoning that we
24:39
have got a lot more that we can give once we feel better within
24:43
ourselves. That is so true.
24:45
I couldn't have said it better myself.
24:47
And that is something that I'm so passionate about.
24:50
You know, I always say we need to rebrand menopause to Meno
24:53
power and give women the inspiration that it's not the
24:58
end and that I feel like it's actually just a new beginning of
25:03
my life. And I feel more empowered, I
25:07
think now than any other time in my life.
25:10
And I think it's so important that when you have a little bit
25:13
of a spotlight to help women feel the same.
25:17
I'm so passionate about it. And I think with beauty, that's
25:20
why I'm so passionate about not being pretentious with my beauty
25:25
content, being really uplifting and joyful because I know a lot
25:29
of women, they might go on TikTok or Instagram and they'll
25:33
see people with perfect skin, perfect faces and the, you know,
25:38
perfect makeup routines. And I always say, you know,
25:40
nothing's perfect. We can't be.
25:43
Don't give yourself a hard time. Actually embrace your flaws and
25:47
your vulnerabilities. Look at the good things.
25:50
And, you know, we have all got that beauty in US.
25:54
It sounds corny, but I'm just really passionate about.
25:56
It no. It's so important and what a
25:57
great place to ends thinking about that empowerment and
26:01
thinking about choice and thinking about it being a new
26:05
beginning. So thank you so much for your
26:08
time. Before we end, I'd just really
26:10
like to ask you 3 take home tips.
26:12
So three things that you think women could do themselves to be
26:18
really empowered to think about this time of our lives as a new
26:22
beginning. What are the three things that
26:23
you think would make a big difference to women?
26:26
I think firstly advocate for yourself and what I mean by that
26:30
is by speaking out about your concerns, whether it's
26:34
menopause, whether it's perimenopause, whether it's in
26:37
your job or with your relationships.
26:40
You need to find your voice and speak out about your problems
26:44
and your issues. And I think as soon as you share
26:46
something, it really helps you overcome whatever your problems
26:51
are. I also think there's that inner
26:53
voice for me addressing those conversations that I was having
26:59
in my head that I wasn't trusting.
27:03
I guess I think with age you learn to trust your gut more.
27:11
And I was having a lot of conversations in my head that I
27:15
knew I needed to put out into the open and introduce steps in
27:23
my life to make them happen. Does that make sense?
27:27
Yes. And then the third one is self
27:31
love. You just need to give yourself a
27:32
bit of a break and just look back and how far you've come and
27:36
how far you can go and remember that you only have really one.
27:42
Well, you only have one life and you just need to make the most
27:46
of it and love yourself more. Perfect.
27:49
Very good. Yeah, really enriching.
27:52
And you're so right. And thanks so much for sharing
27:55
so much actually with all of us today.
27:57
I really appreciate it, Donna. So thank.
27:59
You thank you so much for having me.
28:01
I've loved this recording.