Latest / 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast / 22 Panels & Pschocomicology Joy, Resistance, Hope, and Survival Book Club & Support Group: Underwater Welder

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22 Panels & Pschocomicology Joy, Resistance, Hope, and Survival Book Club & Support Group: Underwater Welder · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:02
  Tad Eggleston: Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Joy… Hope.
• 0:08
  Tad Eggleston: or no, I'm sorry, Joy Resistance, Hope, and Survival Book Club and Support Group on 22 panels. My cat has decided that he wants to, lick my microphone. Can you guys still hear me?
• 0:23
  Tad Eggleston: Hey, hey, the microphone works even while you're licking it, Eddie. Does that make you happy or unhappy?
• 0:31
  Tad Eggleston: Well, he's shooting daggers at me, so I think he's more unhappy.
• 0:38
  Tad Eggleston: I'm joined by Psycho Comicology tonight, or for this month, this… for this meeting, whatever the hell it is. Eddie, you made me discombobulated. Thank you. Thank you.
• 0:55
  Sam and Edgar: Completely off.
• 0:57
  Tad Eggleston: This is why our new logo is a cat knocking the microphone over.
• 1:02
  Larry Woods: Anyhow.
• 1:04
  Tad Eggleston: Oops.
• 1:04
  Sam and Edgar: Fantastic.
• 1:07
  Tad Eggleston: Dr. Ramos picked out Underwater Welder for us for this month, and while I will absolutely say that Underwater Welder
• 1:19
  Tad Eggleston: deals with, hope and survival. Being that Edgar has dubbed this the, the, the Happy Book Club, I'm very curious as to why he picked it.
• 1:34
  Sam and Edgar: Well, sir.
• 1:35
  Tad Eggleston: I can say for… It's been long enough since I read it that I was like, oh, did I have a happier ending than I remembered, is what I thought when you picked it out. And then I read it and no. No, it doesn't.
• 1:48
  Sam and Edgar: I thought it did!
• 1:51
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's not an unhappy ending. Again, the hope and survival are there.
• 1:56
  Sam and Edgar: Yes, and it's ha- it seems… okay, so…
• 1:59
  Sam and Edgar: Maybe it's my interpretation, but… No!
• 2:01
  Tad Eggleston: I, I want to hear! Yeah, please.
• 2:04
  Sam and Edgar: I mean, obviously it's about, you know, there's loss and trauma and grief, and there's all those bad things in there, too. There's no doubt, like, I get it.
• 2:13
  Tad Eggleston: Both past and current. The main character… the main character is both, both…
• 2:21
  Tad Eggleston: Remembering and dealing with his own past trauma and grief, and causing trauma and grief to his pregnant wife.
• 2:30
  Sam and Edgar: Absolutely. During his transition, there's some bleed over… there's a little bleed-over of his stuff onto his family, or onto her and his newcoming family, so yes, but…
• 2:41
  Sam and Edgar: In my eyes, there's resolution for him.
• 2:45
  Sam and Edgar: At the end. So, in my… and I see all you guys shaking your head, it's like.
• 2:49
  Tad Eggleston: There is!
• 2:50
  Sam and Edgar: I think that's the… is that I see resolution. It's like, he had to go through, you know, pardon my language, he had to go through all that shit.
• 2:58
  Sam and Edgar: To get that, you know, that.
• 2:59
  Tad Eggleston: I, I, I…
• 3:01
  Tad Eggleston: I think this is, like, most of the time, I'm not the guy that's like, you know, I long ago resolved myself to, wherever a book ends is where it ends, because if you want one more page, you really want 10 more pages, and if you've got 10 more pages, you just want 10 after that, etc. You gotta choose an ending.
• 3:19
  Tad Eggleston: This is one where I think one more page, where he's, like, playing a game with his child and they're smiling.
• 3:28
  Tad Eggleston: I'm confused me?
• 3:29
  Sam and Edgar: You know, and I don't need that.
• 3:30
  Tad Eggleston: Because where we get left is… They're gonna try.
• 3:37
  Tad Eggleston: And that's better than the alternative!
• 3:41
  Sam and Edgar: And isn't that life?
• 3:43
  Tad Eggleston: It is!
• 3:45
  Sam and Edgar: I… I…
• 3:46
  Tad Eggleston: But I'd like to know that they at least kinda succeed till, like, toddler age. I don't need to see them graduate from high school.
• 3:54
  Sam and Edgar: I don't know.
• 3:54
  Tad Eggleston: But if I could see them tossing a ball in the front yard, I would have appreciated.
• 3:59
  Sam and Edgar: Am I the only one that saw hap… the ending page, where, you know, the child was born, am I the only one that saw happiness there?
• 4:06
  Mig Monagas: No, he came back to them.
• 4:09
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 4:10
  Sam and Edgar: Yes!
• 4:12
  Larry Woods: Well, this is where I also get caught up. For me, I definitely saw relief.
• 4:18
  Larry Woods: From the character's point of view.
• 4:21
  Larry Woods: But I felt joy.
• 4:23
  Larry Woods: When I saw that, because for me, yeah, going through the shit, going through the resistance and hope and survival, it was, like, that last freaking page, it was like, he broke… seemingly broke the cycle, which to me was, like, the big sort of push there, and yeah, I felt extremely happy.
• 4:41
  Larry Woods: Would I have liked one more page? For sure. I would agree with you there.
• 4:45
  Larry Woods: But… I, just to see where.
• 4:48
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I guess for me, and this might be…
• 4:52
  Tad Eggleston: Like, an element of my own, like.
• 4:57
  Tad Eggleston: resurfacing trauma, that sort of thing, like… Particularly as the sun…
• 5:06
  Tad Eggleston: Of the alcoholic that made and broke so many promises.
• 5:11
  Tad Eggleston: Like, turning around and being there for that day is one thing, but like…
• 5:18
  Tad Eggleston: It's a long process. So even having that one more page that says he wasn't just there for the infant.
• 5:28
  Tad Eggleston: He was there… For a crawling baby, you know?
• 5:34
  Sam and Edgar: Optimism, Ted. Optim… you have to be optimistic at the end.
• 5:37
  Tad Eggleston: And I… and I am optimistic, but… but, like…
• 5:42
  Tad Eggleston: The final image is also the watch.
• 5:47
  Tad Eggleston: The final image is the representation of his dad.
• 5:51
  Mig Monagas: Exactly. And it's working.
• 5:54
  Mig Monagas: The watch is working.
• 5:56
  Mig Monagas: And it…
• 5:57
  Sam and Edgar: See, I didn't see it as the representation of his dad, I saw it as the representation of his…
• 6:02
  Sam and Edgar: Re… his… his own life is starting.
• 6:07
  Sam and Edgar: Like, now his…
• 6:09
  Tad Eggleston: Check?
• 6:09
  Sam and Edgar: He is beginning.
• 6:11
  Sam and Edgar: So, like, because he held on for so long, and didn't let life…
• 6:15
  Sam and Edgar: hit him, like, he, you know, left this town, went to college, he got out, and then he came back, and he, he couldn't start. He, like, nothing was starting for him. Like, getting a wife, having, like, you know, getting pregnant, like, having.
• 6:29
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it actually… Sounds like he got the wife and then came back.
• 6:35
  Sam and Edgar: Right, like, he always was gonna come back to it, like, he couldn't start…
• 6:40
  Sam and Edgar: he couldn't start life, you know? He… Right. The biggest thing, like, when people leave small towns is like, well, they're gonna go to school, and they're gonna go make and do great things, and, like, they're starting their life, and then it's like, well, he still came back. He went and got married, like, and they're gonna have a baby, like, that's a whole nother start, and then, like, he still came back.
• 6:57
  Sam and Edgar: So it's like, he couldn't… he couldn't start, and then, you know, towards the end of it, like, with the… with the watch starting, that's what I took as the symbolism of, like, at… this is the point where his life
• 7:09
  Sam and Edgar: has restarted, right? Because I'm assuming at some point the watch worked, right? Like, there wasn't just this gorgeous pocket watch that never.
• 7:16
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 7:17
  Sam and Edgar: The watch stopped at some point.
• 7:20
  Sam and Edgar: So this was… My, you know, analysis of it, this was his life restarting at this point.
• 7:28
  Sam and Edgar: See, to me, the watch was just a metaphor for his life. I don't even know if the watch was really… was a real object, you know, given all the context of it, so I don't know if the watch was real in and of itself, so I look at it as…
• 7:40
  Sam and Edgar: the watch symbolized his time, his rebirth, like, alright, you know, that he held onto, and, like, the token that he held onto about his dad, but I don't… I still question if it's real.
• 7:50
  Sam and Edgar: For me, the thing that I found… so I…
• 7:54
  Sam and Edgar: you know, because we were talking about, what did I see in happiness? And it's funny, because
• 7:59
  Sam and Edgar: Fucking Lemire has this way of getting to me, like, you know, deep in my head.
• 8:04
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, he does!
• 8:05
  Sam and Edgar: And some of the quotes, one of the, what's his name, Jack? I'm forgetting his name already. Jack, he… he says something, quote, and I'm gonna misquote it here, but he says something along the lines of, like, hey, I'm 33 years old, and that's the same age that my dad was, you know, like.
• 8:20
  Sam and Edgar: And it's so fucking funny, because that line… my brother once said, you know, one of my last conversations with my brother is like.
• 8:27
  Sam and Edgar: yeah, you know, you know, he was kind of sick, he's like, you know, I'm 30 years old, you know, like, hey, you know, like, you know, Jesus died at 30, and, you know, he accomplished, you know, everything, so… and then, you know, my brother died, you know, and it's just like, oh, shit, you know, it triggered, like, my past history and trauma and memories, and when I saw that, I'm like.
• 8:46
  Sam and Edgar: oh, shit, but for him, that character, Jack, when he says, you know, I'm 33, and, you know, life… it's all about time. Life started for him.
• 8:55
  Sam and Edgar: Life didn't end for him, it started… I don't know if he had a psychotic break. I don't know if there's this kind of fucking cra… I really… I think that's where I'm left at, is like, did he have a psychotic break? And all this was just, like, in his mind? What did the ocean and going under the water symbolize for him? His job, even, like…
• 9:14
  Sam and Edgar: you know, when you think about being in water and all that, it's birth, right? You're born, your conception, you're conceived in water, right? In the sense of, you know, the embryo and whatnot. So, his whole world is in water, so he's never actually fully come out and lived yet.
• 9:29
  Sam and Edgar: To me, that's how I said it, and that… what symbolized that was that his world has been so heavy-handed, the trauma of his father and whatnot, that he never truly lived until he acknowledged and stepped forth and accepted his sense of being a father.
• 9:43
  Sam and Edgar: Like, you know, because we have in life, we have a direction that we take, is, do I want to be like my dad, or do I want to be something different? And I think that even his job, being wrapped up in a suit, going underwater, working, I think he talks about control, how he can weld and all that, like…
• 9:57
  Sam and Edgar: he's gotta be in a controlled environment, he's under pressure underwater, like, like, you know, all these constraints that he has, like, he's not living. And I think that that's… Lamir does a beautiful job, or… and maybe I'm interpreting it analytically, is that
• 10:13
  Sam and Edgar: he comes out of the water, like, new, alive. And that's what I saw at the end, is he came out new, birth. It wasn't just the birth of his child, which I don't even know if it was a boy or a girl, but it wasn't just the birth of his child, it was the birth of him, too.
• 10:27
  Sam and Edgar: And I think that…
• 10:28
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and I, I…
• 10:29
  Tad Eggleston: I did, as I was flipping through again, realize that I did miss something really key.
• 10:39
  Sam and Edgar: That he was happy with the birth of his child.
• 10:41
  Tad Eggleston: No, no, no, no, no.
• 10:43
  Tad Eggleston: You gotta go back a few pages to what I missed, which is that, like.
• 10:48
  Tad Eggleston: you know, he's writing this note to Susie.
• 10:52
  Sam and Edgar: Oh, yeah.
• 10:52
  Tad Eggleston: Like, a goodbye note, that sort of thing, and it's while he's driving away or rowing away, you know, all of this stuff that indicates him going away.
• 11:03
  Tad Eggleston: But he… for whatever reason, I thought he had left that note in the truck.
• 11:10
  Tad Eggleston: Or, like, out in the truck.
• 11:13
  Sam and Edgar: So, it was like the…
• 11:14
  Tad Eggleston: almost the suicide note, whatever. But he didn't. He put it in a bottle.
• 11:22
  Sam and Edgar: Well, he takes that note with him as he, like, travels around, so first he left it on the table, and then.
• 11:27
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 11:27
  Sam and Edgar: back the first time, he grabbed the note, and then…
• 11:30
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 11:30
  Sam and Edgar: he brings it with him, and then he puts it… I think at one point he did put it somewhere else.
• 11:36
  Sam and Edgar: And then he brings it with him again, and then he sends it in the bottle, because he wants somebody to…
• 11:40
  Tad Eggleston: And for that matter, he even, he even, He… he…
• 11:47
  Tad Eggleston: edits it, from I had a wife to I have a wife.
• 11:53
  Tad Eggleston: Right before he, puts it in the bottle and lets it…
• 11:59
  Sam and Edgar: float away.
• 12:01
  Tad Eggleston: So there's even more symbolism to show that he's making a major choice.
• 12:08
  Sam and Edgar: It keeps coming out.
• 12:10
  Sam and Edgar: So that's why I said, like, I saw the birth of a man. I take that back. I didn't…
• 12:15
  Tad Eggleston: No, I'm seeing it better this time.
• 12:18
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, I, I…
• 12:18
  Tad Eggleston: This is why I love book clubs.
• 12:20
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, I saw the birth of a dad. It wasn't just the birth of a son, it was the birth of a dad, and I think that's… maybe that was the… why I saw it so happy is that I can relate to it as a dad. I'm like, I saw the birth of a dad, you know, and I'm like, I think that was powerful, is that although his dad wasn't there for him.
• 12:37
  Sam and Edgar: Struck a chord and left something for him, and…
• 12:40
  Sam and Edgar: That's what you saw. You saw he carried that weight, the burden of…
• 12:44
  Sam and Edgar: what a dad he thought should be, and he was reborn. I think that was… I think it was powerful. For me, it was powerful.
• 12:50
  Sam and Edgar: Well, I think it's important that he realized, too, that he was chasing the idea of, like.
• 12:56
  Sam and Edgar: his father, like, ultimately, his… like, he… I think he even mentioned that, like, he wasn't everything that I thought he was, and, like, he had this, like, the idea of him, like, I don't even… I remember the details, I don't remember him.
• 13:11
  Sam and Edgar: And, like, as he's going through the story, he comes across…
• 13:14
  Tad Eggleston: That's a great page.
• 13:16
  Sam and Edgar: Yes, like, I…
• 13:17
  Tad Eggleston: The, the four parts of his face that, that… that… Don't connect.
• 13:28
  Sam and Edgar: Right.
• 13:29
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's just… that's just brilliant storytelling and page design.
• 13:35
  Sam and Edgar: It's just a memory, it's not…
• 13:38
  Sam and Edgar: of his memory, it's… he's remembering the good things, but then it… as he goes through the story, he realizes, like, I'm chasing this ghost of a person that I don't even remember, and I can't even see the people who don't care about me.
• 13:53
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 13:53
  Sam and Edgar: I'm pushing them away, like, I'm not acknowledging them, I'm not taking care of them.
• 13:58
  Sam and Edgar: And they're here.
• 14:00
  Sam and Edgar: Because I keep chasing the memory of this ghost that I don't even fully remember. Chasing ghosts, yeah. Absolutely.
• 14:09
  Mig Monagas: Mmm. I saw the watch a little bit different. I saw it as the representation of…
• 14:17
  Mig Monagas: him finding a resolution of his relationship with his dad. Because the night that he died, dad was supposed to pick him up to go trick-or-treating, and he never came, so the kid came out, jacked, looking for him. And…
• 14:36
  Mig Monagas: he I don't quite remember, but it seems that he forgot?
• 14:43
  Mig Monagas: About the watch?
• 14:46
  Mig Monagas: And he thought that his dad forgot again, once more, that he had to pick him up.
• 14:52
  Mig Monagas: So, the fact that… His dad died looking for the watch.
• 14:59
  Mig Monagas: gives Jack that resolution of, oh, no, he was thinking of me, he was gonna come…
• 15:08
  Tad Eggleston: And also, like, I mean, it really, the story… shows how…
• 15:19
  Tad Eggleston: Grief can play with memories, because…
• 15:23
  Tad Eggleston: Initially, he thinks they left the watch at home. You know, it takes all of this break before he remembers that his… the last thing he did with his dad was throw the watch away because he was angry.
• 15:39
  Sam and Edgar: Hey, Tad, do you have a book in front of you, by chance?
• 15:42
  Tad Eggleston: I have the… the… the digital copy, yeah.
• 15:46
  Sam and Edgar: When he's at the bar talking, and the guy's like, oh, like, yeah, your dad was in here, like, he just left, he went to go look for something, does it say he's gonna go look for the watch?
• 15:55
  Mig Monagas: No.
• 15:56
  Tad Eggleston: It doesn't, but there's that implication.
• 15:59
  Sam and Edgar: So we don't even know if he was going to look for the watch. That's why I said, I don't know if this was all true for him. If he made it up in his, like, he broke…
• 16:08
  Sam and Edgar: He came to the realization, he came up with an idea or solution to resolve his, like.
• 16:14
  Sam and Edgar: why he's stuck. Like, he's fixated, he's traumatized, so he's stuck. He's fixated, at a set point in his life where, you know, and…
• 16:22
  Sam and Edgar: I don't know if all this process… I don't know if it actually triggered all these memories, or it just triggered a memory that then he filled in the gaps to, well, this is why he's late, this is why he didn't show, because we don't… I don't know if that was factual or not. Like, that's why I said, I'm like, I don't know if the watch is real.
• 16:39
  Mig Monagas: Well, memories are not factual, though.
• 16:41
  Sam and Edgar: Exactly. That's what I said. So I don't know if this is all real, I don't know if the watch is really real, like.
• 16:47
  Sam and Edgar: You know, like.
• 16:48
  Sam and Edgar: You know, like, you know, because then you gotta look at it, then there's… there is some kind of, like, spiritual stuff going on, because a watch underwater for that long would not work.
• 16:58
  Mig Monagas: We are not.
• 16:59
  Sam and Edgar: Right? So, and then the watch working, then it's like, it…
• 17:02
  Tad Eggleston: Ow.
• 17:02
  Sam and Edgar: It changed.
• 17:04
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I mean, to be honest, if it was an old, old-school wind watch, not a battery watch.
• 17:11
  Tad Eggleston: It might only need to be wound once it was dry.
• 17:16
  Sam and Edgar: If it was wound.
• 17:19
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, I mean… He could have done that without even really thinking about it.
• 17:25
  Sam and Edgar: Right. A lot of speculation. That's…
• 17:28
  Tad Eggleston: No, I know, I know, I'm just saying that, that, that… That's not…
• 17:34
  Sam and Edgar: I think…
• 17:34
  Tad Eggleston: Not an impossible… .
• 17:39
  Sam and Edgar: Factor.
• 17:40
  Tad Eggleston: Right. I think it's left for…
• 17:42
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, I think it's left to how we interpret it, but I mean, I think the watch wasn't real anymore.
• 17:50
  Sam and Edgar: I think for me, it was, he didn't find the watch, he didn't have the watch.
• 17:55
  Sam and Edgar: he let go of the watch, and it just represented time for him, of stop and go, of, you know, being born and being, you know, death and dying. I think the whole landscape was death and dying, birth and, you know, rebirth. For me, I think that's how I see the whole thing.
• 18:12
  Mig Monagas: Hmm.
• 18:15
  Sam and Edgar: Liam?
• 18:15
  Tad Eggleston: I guess the…
• 18:17
  Mig Monagas: What?
• 18:18
  Sam and Edgar: I'm intrigued with Lee's position, he's so quiet.
• 18:21
  Larry Woods: For me, yeah, I…
• 18:24
  Larry Woods: I didn't see it as a psychotic break, I…
• 18:28
  Larry Woods: But I also have, like, a really good way of just sort of suspending disbelief, whether it be in comic books or movies.
• 18:35
  Larry Woods: For me, I definitely took it as… kind of similar to both of your positions, actually.
• 18:40
  Larry Woods: is that… He… the watch represented His life began.
• 18:47
  Larry Woods: Where he was living in this sort of idea, chasing dad, this idea of what his dad meant to him, especially these sort of,
• 18:57
  Larry Woods: alcoholic nature, and how that impacted him, Jack.
• 19:02
  Larry Woods: That once he finally got some sort of resolution from it,
• 19:09
  Larry Woods: Which, I mean, goes to kind of say, like, be careful what you look for, because you might not like the answers, right?
• 19:15
  Larry Woods: is that… He got the answers, he got the resolution.
• 19:20
  Larry Woods: And then from there, after he got that, then…
• 19:23
  Larry Woods: it's like he became aware, like he sort of woke up in a way. So the way you described Dr. Ramasim sort of being rebirthed as a dad, yeah, I took it as he was going through his life ever since his dad died for the 20-some-odd years, that he then began to live his life.
• 19:40
  Larry Woods: Rather than sort of being a shadow of himself.
• 19:42
  Sam and Edgar: Because if you think about it, when he threw the watch, life ended. Time ended. Time ended. Life ended for him when he threw the watch. Like, and that's where trauma started. Let's say that he got stuck right there. So time froze.
• 19:59
  Mig Monagas: For him, right there.
• 20:01
  Sam and Edgar: And then he lived in this kind of…
• 20:03
  Sam and Edgar: for lack of a better word, so we won't get too clinical, he lived in this fucked-up world for a long time of chaos, of misery, and whatnot. And then that watch symbolized, because it was the end, you know, everything ended. His childhood, his innocence ended when he threw that watch.
• 20:20
  Sam and Edgar: His only resolution and his only way of actually coming through was finding that watch, which wasn't… he really didn't find that watch. What he found was himself.
• 20:29
  Sam and Edgar: And that's what I…
• 20:30
  Tad Eggleston: I mean…
• 20:31
  Sam and Edgar: I think the watch wasn't real. I think he found himself again, and that's why the watch… you see the watch starting, because life restarts for him. Life ended, and all that shit started when he threw the watch away.
• 20:44
  Tad Eggleston: I totally agree with you on the symbolism. I guess the reason that I still think that he found the watch is… and that the watch existed is twofold. I found the page in the bar, and he did say not just that he needed to find something, but that he needed to find something for you.
• 21:03
  Tad Eggleston: First.
• 21:04
  Tad Eggleston: And, like, when he remembers that is when he… he's like, oh god, it was my fault.
• 21:12
  Tad Eggleston: So, so it's like he blocked that part for all of this time because…
• 21:20
  Tad Eggleston: it… it prevented him from blaming himself. So then, he, like, goes down, but he, like… I think…
• 21:29
  Tad Eggleston: He both forgives himself.
• 21:32
  Tad Eggleston: But I also think he finds the watch, because… I mean, I think the part that isn't real is that Dad is down there to hand him the watch. I don't think he finds Dad's body.
• 21:42
  Mig Monagas: I would hope not, you know?
• 21:45
  Tad Eggleston: I mean…
• 21:46
  Larry Woods: A little too much, so yeah, I don't know about that one.
• 21:48
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 21:48
  Sam and Edgar: And I think I see it as a break, a psychotic break.
• 21:52
  Tad Eggleston: Right. I guess the biggest reason I do, though, think it's real…
• 21:57
  Tad Eggleston: In terms of the watch and whatnot, is…
• 22:00
  Tad Eggleston: If it wasn't, I don't see why you have him get to the hospital still in his diving suit.
• 22:11
  Sam and Edgar: Well, he… Well, okay, but here's the thing, he finds the watch by the oil rig, doesn't he?
• 22:18
  Sam and Edgar: Well, I mean, there's a picture where the rig is right there, it's near it. So how'd the watch get to the oil rig?
• 22:24
  Tad Eggleston: Well…
• 22:25
  Sam and Edgar: We ain't good.
• 22:25
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know that it… I don't know that he found it right by the oil rig.
• 22:31
  Tad Eggleston: And I don't know where the oil rig is in…
• 22:36
  Sam and Edgar: It's 30 minutes.
• 22:37
  Tad Eggleston: And…
• 22:37
  Sam and Edgar: It's 30 minutes from the… the port.
• 22:41
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, and no, I actually… I do see now that you've got the oil rig in the background.
• 22:46
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, he finds the watch by the… because he goes back to the oil rig, gets the.
• 22:51
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 22:51
  Sam and Edgar: And then the guy pulls him up.
• 22:53
  Sam and Edgar: So the watch is by.
• 22:55
  Tad Eggleston: He bundled.
• 22:56
  Sam and Edgar: He walked by the oil rig, and the oil rig is exactly 30 minutes from the port, because that's what he was telling his wife.
• 23:02
  Larry Woods: Sam with the detective.
• 23:06
  Sam and Edgar: And then that whole thing is like… like, to me, like, he did have a break. I mean, look at it. He's seeing his dad's body, like… I think the watch was real at… when he was a child. Yeah, absolutely. And he threw it. And he threw it.
• 23:20
  Sam and Edgar: But I think he found it… Metaphorically.
• 23:24
  Mig Monagas: Exactly. Right.
• 23:25
  Sam and Edgar: He found it at the place.
• 23:27
  Tad Eggleston: He found a different watch. Yes. Yeah.
• 23:32
  Sam and Edgar: He…
• 23:32
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, or a turtle carried it.
• 23:35
  Sam and Edgar: Potentially, potentially, you know?
• 23:39
  Sam and Edgar: Or Black Hammer. One of the two.
• 23:41
  Sam and Edgar: Aquaman's just down there.
• 23:42
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, there were, like, 20 years in between, so, I mean…
• 23:46
  Sam and Edgar: Could it have moved?
• 23:48
  Tad Eggleston: There's a lot of ways that it coulda… coulda… or maybe he's got a much better arm than we think he did?
• 23:54
  Sam and Edgar: So we…
• 23:55
  Tad Eggleston: He threw it, like, almost all the… where he skipped it. He skipped it across the water.
• 24:01
  Larry Woods: It should have been in football, Jesus, I don't think…
• 24:04
  Sam and Edgar: Yes, he doesn't matter.
• 24:05
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, this is Canada, they play hockey.
• 24:09
  Mig Monagas: That's so interesting, because… and that the watch was real at some point, because he kept… Jack kept saying to his wife, I have to go back, I gotta… I gotta go… I have to. You don't understand. So there's something that kept pulling him back to…
• 24:27
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and, like, it's easy to forget with everything that happens after it, but, like, he gets pulled up after he thinks he saw something.
• 24:34
  Sam and Edgar: No.
• 24:35
  Tad Eggleston: getting.
• 24:36
  Sam and Edgar: Yep.
• 24:38
  Tad Eggleston: You know. He's losing his shit. He lost his shit.
• 24:41
  Sam and Edgar: Damn.
• 24:42
  Larry Woods: Yeah, something important to note here, too, because it just clicked for me, is that, I mean, we started off with him sort of going unconscious, right? So there's already some sort of…
• 24:52
  Larry Woods: I don't want to say,
• 24:53
  Tad Eggleston: Wait a minute, are you about to say it was all a dream?
• 24:57
  Larry Woods: I'm not, but…
• 24:58
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 25:00
  Larry Woods: I definitely took it as, like, I went with it. Like, for me, the watch was real, the… the vision of Dad was real, like, I imagine that he did see that. I didn't see it as a psychotic break, but I saw it as…
• 25:16
  Sam and Edgar: If you saw that, we know it's not real, so what is… why?
• 25:21
  Sam and Edgar: He's traumatized, he had, you know…
• 25:23
  Larry Woods: Oh, yeah.
• 25:24
  Larry Woods: For me, again, it came back to, he finally made that connection with his dad.
• 25:30
  Larry Woods: And then… that was the resolution for him.
• 25:35
  Sam and Edgar: I, I, I think that…
• 25:37
  Sam and Edgar: Will you lay heavily on the watch that… he's not looking… he wasn't looking for the watch. He was looking for his dad.
• 25:49
  Sam and Edgar: The watch is just a metaphor and a symbol.
• 25:52
  Mig Monagas: Right, so the watch could be a representation of his dad, or the relationship with his dad.
• 25:58
  Sam and Edgar: Yep. I think that's it right there. It just represented the… it ended… it represented the ending of a relationship.
• 26:05
  Mig Monagas: Mmm.
• 26:05
  Sam and Edgar: What is it? Even, what does it say? It says, come on, Jack, it's time. And, you know, it's funny.
• 26:11
  Tad Eggleston: See, I figured it out, because I went back and read the beginning. The ghost of his dad
• 26:18
  Tad Eggleston: Picked up the watch.
• 26:20
  Tad Eggleston: And dropped it by him.
• 26:23
  Tad Eggleston: in… in… in the… by the… the oil derrick. I mean, you…
• 26:30
  Mig Monagas: You see his dad swimming.
• 26:32
  Tad Eggleston: on, on, on page… 29!
• 26:38
  Tad Eggleston: And then the watch is there by page 30.
• 26:42
  Tad Eggleston: Er, no, I'm sorry, 33.
• 26:45
  Tad Eggleston: But then they pull him up before he can grab it.
• 26:48
  Sam and Edgar: There goes his dad. Yeah, so, hence my, I don't think the watch is real.
• 26:54
  Tad Eggleston: Are you saying… That ghosts can't scuba dive?
• 26:58
  Sam and Edgar: They absolutely can, but why do they need oxygen?
• 27:03
  Tad Eggleston: You know, well, I… I guess he does have the oxygen tank on, because it's gotta look good.
• 27:11
  Sam and Edgar: And how can a ghost pick up an object if it's not solid?
• 27:14
  Tad Eggleston: And actually, even though, like, what's really happening here is welding.
• 27:21
  Tad Eggleston: To go with your whole psychotic break thing, how much…
• 27:26
  Tad Eggleston: Does it look like there's a break because you're seeing part of the welding and part of the part that hasn't been welded yet with the… with the flame in between?
• 27:38
  Sam and Edgar: Well, think about it. What is the welding… what's the point of welding?
• 27:42
  Sam and Edgar: Putting… joining two things together.
• 27:44
  Tad Eggleston: Yep.
• 27:45
  Sam and Edgar: So, to me, that's the silly. He's putting things together back in his mind.
• 27:49
  Sam and Edgar: This is a kid that was suffering, is traumatized, so he's recreating a story. He's rewriting his narrative.
• 27:56
  Sam and Edgar: That's why I said, like, he did have a break, you know?
• 27:59
  Tad Eggleston: I like it better when I'm, like, when I'm, like, getting your psychoses right. Why are you…
• 28:08
  Sam and Edgar: I mean, ultimately.
• 28:10
  Sam and Edgar: Phenomenal story. I think it had a lot of symbolism, and it does have… it does obviously have a lot of room for interpretation.
• 28:18
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, honestly, it's not my favorite Jeff Lemire, but that's mostly because it's a painful read. It might be the
• 28:27
  Tad Eggleston: Best!
• 28:28
  Tad Eggleston: work that he's ever done. I have a feeling that his best best is still to come.
• 28:34
  Sam and Edgar: Oh, yeah.
• 28:35
  Tad Eggleston: But.
• 28:37
  Mig Monagas: What do you mean by a painful read?
• 28:39
  Sam and Edgar: I was just gonna ask that, too.
• 28:43
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it…
• 28:44
  Sam and Edgar: Loan debt?
• 28:46
  Sam and Edgar: I mean, it has a relatively happy ending, particularly now that I, like… It is a happy ending!
• 28:54
  Tad Eggleston: Well, particularly now that I have, like, caught the parts that I missed on this read, and I might be caught on other reads, but, like, the 200 pages before that happy ending…
• 29:12
  Tad Eggleston: Are filled with childhood trauma being taken out on his poor, pregnant wife.
• 29:18
  Larry Woods: Yeah.
• 29:19
  Mig Monagas: Hmm.
• 29:20
  Larry Woods: Yeah.
• 29:22
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, there are times where you want to pound him. There are times where you want to hug him. There are times where you want him to run away. It's like, dude, if you can't get better, then let her find somebody else to raise your kid.
• 29:37
  Sam and Edgar: Okay.
• 29:38
  Tad Eggleston: Sam's gonna look.
• 29:39
  Sam and Edgar: Here's one of the things that I… I kind of…
• 29:43
  Sam and Edgar: it… like, the whole metaphor of itself, right? Like, because then I question, did the dad really even die?
• 29:49
  Sam and Edgar: Because, like, in the news article, okay, local man drowns on Halloween night, we're shocked to discover a local businessman, Peter Joseph had drowned off the peak, but then it goes on to say…
• 30:00
  Sam and Edgar: He was lasting at the Rusty Anger, a local tavern, and may have become intoxicated before driving off of Lake House Point around 8pm. So he… did he drive his car off the point?
• 30:12
  Sam and Edgar: But then.
• 30:13
  Tad Eggleston: You think that's the assumption?
• 30:15
  Sam and Edgar: But then it says…
• 30:17
  Tad Eggleston: No, it's not 100% cl… Clear that he drowned or vanished.
• 30:23
  Sam and Edgar: Because it says…
• 30:24
  Tad Eggleston: What's clear is…
• 30:26
  Tad Eggleston: He hasn't been seen in all this time. Right. For that matter, I mean, one of the scenes with Mom…
• 30:34
  Tad Eggleston: you know… Jack… Gets upset, because she says he's dead.
• 30:44
  Tad Eggleston: You know…
• 30:46
  Sam and Edgar: And that's the thing where, you know, we don't know… it's not for sure that he's dead, right? According to this news article, he drove off the point, he's presumed lost at sea, and presumed dead. So he might not even be dead. So… but then he goes back and he sees his dad
• 31:03
  Sam and Edgar: So he's just chilling in the water? He's not snorkeling, alright? He's underwater, he's not snorkeling, he's.
• 31:09
  Tad Eggleston: Dude, totally! Totally. He came back just to give him the watch.
• 31:13
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, I, I, I… And he's going back.
• 31:15
  Tad Eggleston: to his life in Hawaii.
• 31:16
  Sam and Edgar: there the whole time. He's like, oh, let me… one day, he's gonna… it's gonna click for him, and he's just gonna come find it.
• 31:22
  Sam and Edgar: But it goes back to that whole, like, idea of, like, did he have a break? Because in his mind, his dad is down there waiting for him, right?
• 31:30
  Sam and Edgar: But, first of all, we don't know if his dad's dead, and second of all, making the assumption that, like, oh, he died going back to get me my watch, well, did he go down there to get the watch, and then he died, or did he drive his car off the point? That's my whole point, is that all that is irrelevant. The thing is, is that…
• 31:49
  Sam and Edgar: I think he… he made this story in his… this is Jack's story. Jack created these things for himself to find resolution. That's why I said… I think the word… people are struggling with the word psychotic break, because everyone thinks that psychotic break is such an awful, bad thing. He's seeing things that aren't there.
• 32:09
  Sam and Edgar: that's a psychotic break. Like, he's breaking from reality. Let's change the word to, he's breaking from reality and seeing things that other people probably can't see.
• 32:18
  Sam and Edgar: That's where I think it is happening. But it's a good pro… it's a transitional object for him, it's a transition for him, excuse me, transformation for him, in that he's filling in
• 32:29
  Sam and Edgar: those gaps as a child, and filling in, rewriting his narrative as an adult, like, my dad went back to do this, and blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah. That's where I think I see it as, like, whether his dad is dead or not.
• 32:42
  Sam and Edgar: Doesn't even really matter anymore, because remember, whether someone's alive or not, if you haven't seen him for 20 years, loss is loss. He's still experiencing that loss.
• 32:50
  Tad Eggleston: No, it's about… it's about letting go of…
• 32:52
  Sam and Edgar: Correct, yeah.
• 32:55
  Sam and Edgar: he let go, like, he stopped, he's not holding on to the idea that maybe Dad is still…
• 33:01
  Mig Monagas: And I think it's interesting when you say the… well, it's irrelevant, because when he comes to the realization, let's say that, oh, he died because he went to look for the watch, which is how he's portraying it, right?
• 33:18
  Mig Monagas: He says, hold on, so… It was my fault.
• 33:22
  Mig Monagas: Or maybe it's because he was an alcoholic. Or maybe… so he… he talks to himself about all the different, causes, and then he goes, well, why does it matter? He's gone.
• 33:37
  Mig Monagas: That was the part for me that it really touched me.
• 33:42
  Sam and Edgar: It's like, he stopped worrying about the why, and… Yeah. He realized that he's gone, I have to… that was his rebirth, that was his, like.
• 33:51
  Mig Monagas: Hmm.
• 33:51
  Sam and Edgar: I have to keep going.
• 33:53
  Sam and Edgar: I have a child coming, Absolutely.
• 33:58
  Mig Monagas: Yeah, that's when he was able to go back to them.
• 34:01
  Sam and Edgar: So, so I have to… was it positive for you guys, or was it just me that saw the…
• 34:06
  Tad Eggleston: No, it was definitely positive.
• 34:10
  Larry Woods: I definitely saw it as positive.
• 34:12
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I didn't mean to imply that I didn't think it was positive. Like I said, the hope and survival is there in spades. But as the guy that recently asked, you know, is this the Tom King night, or is this the Happy Book Night?
• 34:31
  Sam and Edgar: And I'm wearing… I… so it…
• 34:34
  Sam and Edgar: Maybe it's because I also revel in a little bit of that sense of loss and that transformative kind of space, but…
• 34:42
  Sam and Edgar: I think I just saw it, it was just a really good, happy ending, like, there, he's there for… he's there for his kid, he was there for…
• 34:50
  Sam and Edgar: the birth, you know, you see the… Right. You see the baby coming out, you see him holding his watch, it looks like she's caressing the child.
• 34:57
  Sam and Edgar: And then, you look at the baby, and that last page, everyone's looking at the tick-tick when the clock is ticking, which… I wonder if… I'm looking at the time of it, when it stopped and when it started, but that's irrelevant. Look at his eyes, and he's crying.
• 35:13
  Mig Monagas: Yeah.
• 35:14
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 35:15
  Sam and Edgar: He's crying over the birth of his son, like…
• 35:19
  Sam and Edgar: To me, that watch, all it does when it starts is that…
• 35:22
  Sam and Edgar: he's a new man right there, he's a dad. And that was just like… Phenomenal, like, yup, he's…
• 35:29
  Mig Monagas: Yeah.
• 35:30
  Sam and Edgar: And we haven't really touched on the art itself.
• 35:34
  Sam and Edgar: Lemire's art.
• 35:36
  Sam and Edgar: he really captures the moods. Yeah. Well, the expression. Yeah, the settings in all that. They're really…
• 35:45
  Sam and Edgar: really poignant in how he stresses, like, the anxieties, like, you know, you have, like, the dark colors that you can see, right? Like, the darkness that comes in, the anxiety, the fear, like, he used heavy… he uses heavy lining to show that, you know? It's just…
• 36:00
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, I mean, it's… it's not the best art when you think of details and all that, but it's poignant. Well, no, it does have detail, and that's what makes it good art, is that… It has meaning. It doesn't have, like, it doesn't have coloring, it's all shaded, and it's…
• 36:14
  Tad Eggleston: It's not hyper-realism.
• 36:16
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah. No.
• 36:16
  Tad Eggleston: But… but it's… it's… it's very de- I mean…
• 36:21
  Tad Eggleston: I, I actually… one of the reasons I, I prefer… comics.
• 36:29
  Tad Eggleston: is, like… and I realize that this is… this is one of the reasons that, like, my autism and my comics go together, is that…
• 36:39
  Tad Eggleston: Because it's not hyper-realistic, What gets shown is the details you need
• 36:49
  Tad Eggleston: to read the emotions, to get the mood, to get whatever. So, rather than having to try
• 36:57
  Tad Eggleston: To sift through the parts of the… of the face that… that aren't telling me anything, to find the parts…
• 37:05
  Tad Eggleston: that are telling me what they're supposed to tell me, I can…
• 37:09
  Tad Eggleston: only see the parts that are… or often only see, or have exaggerated versions, or… does that make sense?
• 37:18
  Tad Eggleston: It's actually one of the reasons that we use
• 37:22
  Tad Eggleston: Pictures a lot in… in…
• 37:25
  Tad Eggleston: Autism education, is that, you know, it's easier for them to identify feelings or whatnot with an emoji.
• 37:34
  Tad Eggleston: than it is… A photograph.
• 37:38
  Tad Eggleston: You know…
• 37:42
  Larry Woods: And I just want to go back to something, Tad, you had said about it being a painful read, and both Ramos and Mig having the question of, like, what… why was it painful?
• 37:53
  Larry Woods: Because…
• 37:54
  Larry Woods: to me, I think that's really where the… and maybe it's not the right word, but the happiness or joy that I got from it was that it was cathartic.
• 38:03
  Larry Woods: Right, so… and I flipped through it, and for me, the part that was painful, that for me, I actually had to set the book down, because it did evoke that emotion in me, and I did start to tear up, was when he did get that answer.
• 38:18
  Larry Woods: About why his sort of dad died. And, and especially this idea of, like.
• 38:25
  Larry Woods: his little boy. That little boy, when time stopped for him, where…
• 38:30
  Larry Woods: He got that consolation that he needed.
• 38:35
  Larry Woods: And for me, I know that for me, it has actually had…
• 38:39
  Larry Woods: By far, some of the most,
• 38:45
  Larry Woods: most relationship dynamics that I had with my dad, it evoked a lot of my memory and experiences with my dad. So, like, for me.
• 38:53
  Larry Woods: it was 100% that sort of cathartic emotional experience for me. And I… even with therapy, I think that's the part of joy or happiness, and maybe that's why I said relief earlier, that you get some relief from it.
• 39:10
  Larry Woods: that… That's what you move forward with, even though it is painful, that you feel better afterward.
• 39:17
  Larry Woods: I'm getting that out.
• 39:19
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and I mean, the image that hits me the hardest is probably… it's…
• 39:29
  Tad Eggleston: Page 191, right? And it's probably not quite 191 in the book, because it's a double-page spread, but it's when he's rowing towards the oil rig.
• 39:42
  Tad Eggleston: And you have the pictures of the life
• 39:47
  Tad Eggleston: That it feels like he's rowing away from.
• 39:51
  Tad Eggleston: Particularly because… You know he's rowing away from land. You know that he's written this note.
• 40:00
  Tad Eggleston: But as I look at it, I also notice that while it's not… Completely consistent?
• 40:07
  Sam and Edgar: For the most part, the child gets younger the farther away.
• 40:12
  Tad Eggleston: The pictures are.
• 40:14
  Tad Eggleston: So it's like, it's like he's literally rowing away from…
• 40:20
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it feels like he's rowing away from a future with this child.
• 40:26
  Sam and Edgar: No, he's rowing towards. Damn, I saw it, I see it opposite, I see he's rowing… he's rowing towards the growth of his child, like, see, because he ends, I can see Susie, and I see you, my boy.
• 40:38
  Tad Eggleston: I know, but to me, when I was reading it, because he hasn't actually even gotten rid of the note yet.
• 40:46
  Tad Eggleston: So, so, so, I mean, it's the next page that he, that he puts the note into the bottle, you know. To me, it was… he fully knew what he was running away from, and he was…
• 41:00
  Tad Eggleston: Doing it anyway.
• 41:04
  Sam and Edgar: And that's… talk about perspectives, yeah.
• 41:07
  Sam and Edgar: I, I agree, but I see he's…
• 41:10
  Tad Eggleston: No, it's absolutely a page that can be read a lot of different ways. Like, as I was looking at it now, not when I was reading initially, but was looking at it now, I'm like.
• 41:20
  Tad Eggleston: he is… you know, the pictures go on forever, so why do I feel like he's rowing away from them? And then that's when I started looking at them closer, and it's like…
• 41:30
  Tad Eggleston: It's not 100% consistent, but, like, the baby pictures are further away.
• 41:39
  Sam and Edgar: Because they're the oldest.
• 41:41
  Tad Eggleston: But that's what he's rowing towards. He's rowing away from the future.
• 41:48
  Tad Eggleston: So, eventually, the pictures are gonna be like, what, an ultrasound? And then he's gonna be lost at sea, is how it feels to me.
• 41:57
  Sam and Edgar: See, I see he's rowing towards because it's… he's going towards his wife's… the birth.
• 42:03
  Sam and Edgar: The baby's not born yet.
• 42:05
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, but she's not giving birth on an oil, Derek.
• 42:08
  Sam and Edgar: Not yet. I mean, screw it.
• 42:11
  Tad Eggleston: away from shore.
• 42:13
  Sam and Edgar: Dad, if the fucking watch is by the oil rig, if the Ghost of Dad can bring the watch to the fucking oil rig, then he can bring her, Susie, to the oil rig, too.
• 42:22
  Tad Eggleston: No, but I'd forgotten that at this point, because that was, what, the first 4 or 5 pages?
• 42:29
  Sam and Edgar: See, the way I see it is, like, he's… he's going towards his future, or… but… but in his…
• 42:36
  Sam and Edgar: Future is his past.
• 42:38
  Tad Eggleston: And that's absolutely there as well, but, like… That's… that's how, like… Because, again, the page before…
• 42:50
  Tad Eggleston: Like, he's picturing this, this, like, real future.
• 42:54
  Tad Eggleston: Where he's not there with them.
• 42:57
  Tad Eggleston: You know, they're having a picnic in the middle of the page, as he, looking more like his dad than at any point in this book.
• 43:06
  Larry Woods: Yep.
• 43:08
  Tad Eggleston: It is rowing away from the shore.
• 43:13
  Sam and Edgar: Inconsistent at best.
• 43:19
  Larry Woods: Yeah, I think this is…
• 43:21
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I think deliberately…
• 43:24
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, just from what I know of Lemire and his work, you know, I would imagine on some level.
• 43:31
  Tad Eggleston: Deliberately open for interpretation.
• 43:34
  Sam and Edgar: We need to have him on the podcast, and we're gonna have.
• 43:37
  Tad Eggleston: He's… he's on my white whale list. He is… reclusive.
• 43:44
  Tad Eggleston: He doesn't do a lot of media.
• 43:46
  Sam and Edgar: I'm gonna have… I'm gonna reach out to him, like, hey, I just…
• 43:49
  Tad Eggleston: I have talked to him once.
• 43:52
  Tad Eggleston: In person.
• 43:56
  Tad Eggleston: That'd be cool. And invited him, and he took the card, and I never heard from him.
• 44:00
  Tad Eggleston: I think I've written him a couple of times and never gotten a response.
• 44:05
  Larry Woods: Wow.
• 44:06
  Tad Eggleston: And that's okay, you know, not everybody is… I mean…
• 44:10
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, even talking to him, he's a sh… I mean, he was doing a signing with a line, and he was, like, the shyest guy I've ever seen with somebody…
• 44:20
  Tad Eggleston: With that kind of line.
• 44:21
  Larry Woods: Yeah.
• 44:23
  Larry Woods: Interesting.
• 44:24
  Tad Eggleston: You know, was it, it was at Challengers.
• 44:27
  Tad Eggleston: Actually, during ALA, because both he and Tilly Walden were at ALA, and they came out to Challengers for an afternoon.
• 44:35
  Tad Eggleston: So they were signing together.
• 44:41
  Tad Eggleston: Tilly Walden's another one that… have you guys read any Tilly Walden?
• 44:45
  Sam and Edgar: I'd have to hear a title.
• 44:51
  Sam and Edgar: What I like about Lemire's work is that all his characters look related, like, you're seeing the universe he's building.
• 44:59
  Larry Woods: Yeah.
• 45:00
  Sam and Edgar: You know, like, Royal City, Plutona, Minor Arcana, like, they're, like, related, although Phantom Road is a little bit different.
• 45:08
  Larry Woods: Yeah.
• 45:10
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Well, but he doesn't draw it.
• 45:12
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, and that's probably why.
• 45:14
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, there's a difference between the stuff he draws and the stuff he doesn't.
• 45:17
  Tad Eggleston: Tilly Walden… Oh, is that a new one coming out? Yeah, there's a new one coming out in…
• 45:27
  Tad Eggleston: And,
• 45:32
  Tad Eggleston: Spring of 26. She did the three Clementine books, in the… Walking Dead universe.
• 45:41
  Tad Eggleston: The YA Walking Dead.
• 45:42
  Larry Woods: Oh, shit.
• 45:43
  Tad Eggleston: She's done 2 books with Tegan and Sarah.
• 45:47
  Tad Eggleston: About, like, middle school… stuff.
• 45:52
  Tad Eggleston: The one that I love, and that you guys should definitely read, is called, Are You Listening?
• 46:00
  Tad Eggleston: Definitely has, like, a massive mental health…
• 46:05
  Sam and Edgar: I think I have…
• 46:05
  Tad Eggleston: In fact, the write-up on it includes cats, road tripping, Texas friendship, creepy government officials, and trauma.
• 46:14
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 46:16
  Sam and Edgar: I'm writing it down, I think I may have it already in my collection here.
• 46:19
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, on a Sunbeam is probably the one that put her on most people's maps.
• 46:25
  Tad Eggleston: It's a story set in space.
• 46:28
  Tad Eggleston: Many gays, ancient buildings, mystical creatures, boarding school, and family.
• 46:36
  Sam and Edgar: Sounds like an episode of Wednesday.
• 46:39
  Larry Woods: Hmm.
• 46:41
  Tad Eggleston: Spinning is about… Competitive figure skating when she was in childhood?
• 46:48
  Tad Eggleston: A city inside.
• 46:51
  Tad Eggleston: She describes as probably her strangest work.
• 46:54
  Tad Eggleston: She says, secretly one of my… her favorites, one of mine too. Don't ask me what it means, because I don't know. It includes a floating sky bed, a city inside a woman, a cloud fish, and a very pretty triangle pillow.
• 47:09
  Tad Eggleston: I love this part is, love story.
• 47:14
  Tad Eggleston: Between girls, and… including lush landscapes and snappy dialogue and sadness.
• 47:20
  Tad Eggleston: And then the end of summer.
• 47:24
  Tad Eggleston: As twins and a cat.
• 47:29
  Tad Eggleston: Pools, snow, and violence.
• 47:32
  Tad Eggleston: That was her first book.
• 47:34
  Tad Eggleston: When she was 17, So she was… she was precocious.
• 47:41
  Tad Eggleston: as well.
• 47:47
  Tad Eggleston: Definitely somebody that we should actually investigate on this show sometime, too.
• 47:53
  Tad Eggleston: I'd have to go back and look at which one I was willing to call. I mean, they all have…
• 47:58
  Tad Eggleston: Like, like, like Underwater Welder, I'm willing to say they all have hope and survival, but I think I'd want to go figure out which one had the most joy. The most joy in it.
• 48:08
  Sam and Edgar: Well, I found this book to be very joyful.
• 48:12
  Tad Eggleston: I'll go with, there's joy. I think, I think I have problem with the very.
• 48:18
  Sam and Edgar: It was inspiring to… you know what it is? I think, and I stand by it, it's just that sense of, like.
• 48:25
  Sam and Edgar: he found his… being a father, like, the hardships of being a dad, like, and to me, that was just… I think I just stuck with that, like, that's joyful to me.
• 48:34
  Tad Eggleston: So, 3 pages of… 3 pages of joy, after… after 200 plus pages of…
• 48:41
  Sam and Edgar: Isn't that likely?
• 48:41
  Larry Woods: he's there.
• 48:42
  Sam and Edgar: You only have, like, you know, a few moments of joy, but, like, you know, a real good, the rest is, like, you know, hard work, but then that's what you enjoy. It's like, that was joyful.
• 48:50
  Tad Eggleston: Let, let, let… no, I think, I think, I think… Life tends to actually be
• 48:57
  Tad Eggleston: Closer to equal parts joy and hardship, with a lot of neither in between.
• 49:05
  Sam and Edgar: I don't know, have you met my children?
• 49:08
  Sam and Edgar: There's a lot of resistance.
• 49:11
  Sam and Edgar: There's a lot…
• 49:12
  Tad Eggleston: I, I, I mean…
• 49:15
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, don't get me wrong, people's level of trauma changes, and like, so finding joy isn't… but once you've learned how to take joy in things…
• 49:28
  Sam and Edgar: You're talking to someone that believes that human suffering is part of life, you know, so you're gonna look at, like, you know.
• 49:36
  Tad Eggleston: I agree. Like, you know, you have to find joy in self… Right. You have to find happiness. I mean, but I also don't think that you can find joy, period.
• 49:47
  Tad Eggleston: Without having had.
• 49:50
  Sam and Edgar: Suffering.
• 49:50
  Tad Eggleston: some suffering. You don't really know what it is.
• 49:55
  Tad Eggleston: You know… Yeah, you don't know the difference.
• 49:58
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's…
• 49:59
  Sam and Edgar: You don't know the difference. Yeah.
• 50:00
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, it's one of the reasons why
• 50:04
  Tad Eggleston: Uber-rich kids that, like, didn't have to work for it.
• 50:09
  Tad Eggleston: Are so often… Horrible people.
• 50:14
  Tad Eggleston: Because they know FUN… But they don't necessarily know joy.
• 50:21
  Sam and Edgar: I mean, I grew up rich, and I find myself still being sensitive to… I'm just kidding. It's far from it.
• 50:28
  Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, and I say that not as a way of excusing them, but as a way of understanding them, and, like, knowing that some of them are kids that I teach.
• 50:38
  Tad Eggleston: And some of them are presidents of the United States.
• 50:45
  Sam and Edgar: Human suffering is essential. There's… Gotta appreciate all the good and the bad.
• 50:50
  Tad Eggleston: But, but, yeah, if you haven't actually experienced True hardship or pain.
• 50:57
  Tad Eggleston: It's really also hard to experience joy or happiness.
• 51:02
  Tad Eggleston: There's… there's nothing to… but I also think that, like…
• 51:07
  Sam and Edgar: Can't have light and dark without darkness.
• 51:09
  Tad Eggleston: Well, but I also think that a huge swath of our life is actually, you know, Twilight.
• 51:19
  Sam and Edgar: You're getting very.
• 51:19
  Tad Eggleston: You know?
• 51:20
  Sam and Edgar: Metaphysical in here.
• 51:23
  Tad Eggleston: You know…
• 51:24
  Sam and Edgar: Maybe you're still wondering, aren't they, like, wait… What's going on?
• 51:30
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know that that always makes good fiction, though. I think a lot of the time in the fiction, you get…
• 51:37
  Tad Eggleston: An overemphasis on the trauma and hardship, and then, if you're lucky, a little bit of the joy and catharsis.
• 51:47
  Tad Eggleston: But I think that's also because part of the purpose of fiction is to…
• 51:54
  Tad Eggleston: Allow us to learn through other people's trauma?
• 52:01
  Larry Woods: Or false. That makes sense.
• 52:02
  Sam and Edgar: Isn't that what children do with their parents? What we do with our kids is teach them…
• 52:06
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, absolutely.
• 52:06
  Sam and Edgar: teach them through our traumas and our… our fraudulences. We try to.
• 52:10
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean, my…
• 52:11
  Sam and Edgar: Because some of these motherfuckers don't listen.
• 52:14
  Tad Eggleston: My son decided that, like, every major trauma I went through, he was gonna try to do a couple years younger than me.
• 52:22
  Sam and Edgar: Oh, he must know my eldest daughter, yeah.
• 52:26
  Tad Eggleston: Hey.
• 52:27
  Tad Eggleston: On the upside…
• 52:29
  Tad Eggleston: I feel like he became a parent, like, a decade yu- or became a good parent, like, a decade younger than me, so, I mean, at some point, his… his trying to be ahead on the curve on me actually wound up being a good thing.
• 52:46
  Sam and Edgar: Cool, that's good.
• 52:48
  Sam and Edgar: So, I'm going to recluse myself from voting for the next book.
• 52:54
  Tad Eggleston: No, you don't have to.
• 52:55
  Sam and Edgar: I will… no, no, no!
• 52:56
  Tad Eggleston: No, I thought this was a great read. I think it was good for this book club. I mean, this is a support group, as well as a book club. It's not…
• 53:05
  Tad Eggleston: You know…
• 53:07
  Tad Eggleston: I was mostly laughing because it was you, right after you'd called it the Happy Book Club, which isn't actually quite what it is.
• 53:18
  Sam and Edgar: No, I… My facilitation with words is at a downswing as of late.
• 53:25
  Sam and Edgar: I think that's a really good point in making, like, it's not necessarily a happy book club, but, like, it's a cathartic book club.
• 53:33
  Tad Eggleston: Right. I mean, we do sometimes choose the just joyous stuff, you know? I mean, we picked Squirrel Girl because we wanted an emphasis on.
• 53:44
  Sam and Edgar: You know…
• 53:45
  Tad Eggleston: That was right after… right after… I forget what he did. I mean, in some ways, I want a happy one this month, too, because, like, we… we just… we just decided extrajudicial killings are okay, as long as we say, those guys in that speedboat are terrorists!
• 54:05
  Sam and Edgar: Okay, what's the next book? What's a happy book? I'll let you guys pick.
• 54:12
  Larry Woods: I'll throw an idea out there, public domains?
• 54:15
  Sam and Edgar: That's terrible.
• 54:17
  Tad Eggleston: Public domain would work.
• 54:19
  Tad Eggleston: Though, I mean, if we wanted to go deep, deep… We could go sex criminals.
• 54:27
  Larry Woods: Mine.
• 54:28
  Sam and Edgar: Tax Criminals, I thought that was great.
• 54:31
  Larry Woods: That's a happy one, that's a joy one? Sorry.
• 54:34
  Tad Eggleston: I think there's a lot of joy in that, particularly Volume 1. Volume 1 is before they get all serious. Volume 1 is when it's a heist involving orgasms.
• 54:44
  Sam and Edgar: So I'm so confused, because, like, public domain isn't happy to me. Like, you know, he got robbed, he got.
• 54:50
  Tad Eggleston: It has moments.
• 54:51
  Sam and Edgar: You know, and then sex criminals, she's traumatized, they're, you know…
• 54:56
  Larry Woods: Already putting out our reservations.
• 54:58
  Sam and Edgar: You know, see, like…
• 55:00
  Sam and Edgar: When I think of something happy, like, okay, let me think of happy, let me try to find where happiness is, what book. Well, ladies, what do you guys think? She's gonna be Lady? No, I was saying Sapphire.
• 55:12
  Sam and Edgar: What happy book…
• 55:13
  Tad Eggleston: He… he meant ladies.
• 55:15
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, I did. He's a lady, I said.
• 55:18
  Sam and Edgar: Excuse me? I meant ladies. Words are not easy for me today.
• 55:24
  Mig Monagas: No, bye.
• 55:26
  Sam and Edgar: That's the point!
• 55:28
  Sam and Edgar: Great book, I just don't know if it's one of…
• 55:31
  Mig Monagas: Just kidding.
• 55:33
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I tossed it out a while ago, and I'd still happily do it,
• 55:40
  Tad Eggleston: And, and, like, it involves… It involves difficulties, but, like, middle school difficulties.
• 55:48
  Tad Eggleston: the Cartoonist Club.
• 55:51
  Tad Eggleston: That, that Raina Telgemeyer and Scott McCloud just did.
• 55:55
  Sam and Edgar: I'd have to look for that.
• 55:57
  Sam and Edgar: Is it, have you guys read or heard of, Ishubanshi?
• 56:04
  Sam and Edgar: It's a Japanese word.
• 56:11
  Sam and Edgar: Oh, I can't… ISS…
• 56:18
  Tad Eggleston: ISS…
• 56:20
  Sam and Edgar: Isu… Is… Isu Bunsi?
• 56:23
  Sam and Edgar: I can't pronounce the word.
• 56:25
  Sam and Edgar: Let me see if I can…
• 56:26
  Mig Monagas: What if we do better… Great, Bill.
• 56:30
  Sam and Edgar: That was also.
• 56:31
  Tad Eggleston: Hey there, Ray Bill?
• 56:33
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that would work too. Do we want to do new beta ray bill, or old beta ray bill?
• 56:37
  Mig Monagas: There's a new one.
• 56:39
  Tad Eggleston: Well, the new one is… the Daniel Warren Johnson. The old one is…
• 56:46
  Tad Eggleston: Walt Simonson.
• 56:51
  Sam and Edgar: Very good, by the way.
• 56:53
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 56:58
  Sam and Edgar: Issue Banshee, Banshee.
• 57:01
  Sam and Edgar: It's the book.
• 57:02
  Sam and Edgar: So, it's a Japanese myth story of the child born that's like a… like a little guy, very,
• 57:10
  Sam and Edgar: Miniature?
• 57:11
  Larry Woods: Oh.
• 57:12
  Sam and Edgar: Warrior.
• 57:14
  Sam and Edgar: It has very… the art is what's so…
• 57:18
  Tad Eggleston: Who's it, who's it by?
• 57:20
  Sam and Edgar: Oh, I can't think of… I can't think of the…
• 57:25
  Tad Eggleston: Cause I'm trying to find it.
• 57:29
  Tad Eggleston: And so far, I found, like, a bike.
• 57:35
  Sam and Edgar: Life.
• 57:37
  Tad Eggleston: Isayo Bianchi.
• 57:41
  Sam and Edgar: No?
• 57:45
  Sam and Edgar: Isun Bashi, the subject of a fairy tale from Japan.
• 57:54
  Sam and Edgar: I-S-S-U-N.
• 58:00
  Sam and Edgar: Tisun Banshee?
• 58:03
  Sam and Edgar: I… Bullshit.
• 58:04
  Sam and Edgar: I-S-S-U-N-B-O-S-H-I by Ryan Lang, I think it is?
• 58:11
  Sam and Edgar: Isun Boshi?
• 58:19
  Sam and Edgar: Do you see it?
• 58:21
  Tad Eggleston: I'm… I'm looking for it.
• 58:23
  Sam and Edgar: It's, graphic… that's a 22…
• 58:26
  Tad Eggleston: Boshi.
• 58:26
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, it's a folktale of a 6-inch tall samurai.
• 58:38
  Tad Eggleston: That reminds me of…
• 58:43
  Sam and Edgar: It explores themes of courage, and the idea that heroism is not innate, but must be earned.
• 58:51
  Sam and Edgar: It's a very…
• 58:52
  Tad Eggleston: I found,
• 58:58
  Tad Eggleston: There's also… I mean, the, the… when… when you said the, the…
• 59:05
  Tad Eggleston: The miniature, it made me think of another manga
• 59:09
  Tad Eggleston: That I read recently that I, I, I loved a lot.
• 59:13
  Tad Eggleston: And found… Delightful.
• 59:17
  Tad Eggleston: Give me a second…
• 59:20
  Sam and Edgar: This one isn't mine.
• 59:21
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 59:25
  Sam and Edgar: Let's not get into manga yet, I gotta work my way in it.
• 59:28
  Larry Woods: I was about to say, I got a manga ready. It brought me a lot of joy, but I don't know if everybody would…
• 59:33
  Tad Eggleston: Which one?
• 59:33
  Larry Woods: It's Deadpool Samurai.
• 59:39
  Larry Woods: But… that's me.
• 59:46
  Tad Eggleston: Trying to remember the name of it… Gotta find it.
• 59:51
  Sam and Edgar: I'll… I will recluse myself. I'll let…
• 59:53
  Larry Woods: You recluse yourself, and then here you are.
• 59:56
  Sam and Edgar: Let's have the ladies pick, that's the lady's choice.
• 59:59
  Larry Woods: True?
• 1:00:01
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, there's one that I like called Minami's Lover.
• 1:00:07
  Sam and Edgar: I love love stories.
• 1:00:08
  Tad Eggleston: Where… where,
• 1:00:15
  Tad Eggleston: Nami's Lover is the story of two high schoolers' romantic relationship when one of them shrinks down to 6 inches tall.
• 1:00:22
  Tad Eggleston: Everyone thinks Chiomi has disappeared, and suspicion naturally falls on Manami, identified as her boyfriend in her diary, but after inexplicably finding herself in such a state, Chiomi moves in with him.
• 1:00:35
  Tad Eggleston: As depicted in Uchida's clean, loose line and zipitone textures, the two soon adapt to the unusual circumstances, devising ways for Chiomi to use the toilet, brush her teeth and hair, attend classes, and more. After some silly sequences of trial and error, they even figure out a sex life.
• 1:00:52
  Tad Eggleston: But in addition to learning how to navigate logistics, jealousy, and the cat, they're also growing up, if not taller.
• 1:01:00
  Tad Eggleston: Ichida uses the conceit of a teen couple literally learning how to care for one another to examine gender dynamics and intimacy.
• 1:01:14
  Tad Eggleston: And it's… it's not… Here, I'll…
• 1:01:16
  Sam and Edgar: Is it mine?
• 1:01:18
  Tad Eggleston: It is, but it's not like the frantic manga.
• 1:01:22
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, manga is…
• 1:01:25
  Tad Eggleston: just Japanese for comics, so, like, there are as many different styles of it as there are American or European comics.
• 1:01:34
  Tad Eggleston: There's… there's your cover.
• 1:01:37
  Sam and Edgar: Okay, I can deal with that art better.
• 1:01:40
  Sam and Edgar: It looks like the Studio Gibby stuff, the…
• 1:01:44
  Tad Eggleston: I bet.
• 1:01:45
  Tad Eggleston: Actually, I just… I have it digitally, so I can even…
• 1:01:57
  Tad Eggleston: And it's not necessarily all happy, but it does have absurdity, and… and I guess that's the biggest thing with this book, is the happy is isolated. If there had been happy moments throughout, it would have been an easier read.
• 1:02:14
  Sam and Edgar: I… I vote either Bone or… No, no Bone. All-Star Superman.
• 1:02:19
  Tad Eggleston: Moon is great.
• 1:02:21
  Tad Eggleston: I could do All-Star Superman.
• 1:02:26
  Sam and Edgar: I haven't read that in years.
• 1:02:29
  Sam and Edgar: Or I was thinking Kingdom Come. What? Kingdom Come?
• 1:02:34
  Tad Eggleston: I haven't actually ever read Kingdom Come.
• 1:02:37
  Sam and Edgar: I heard that yet. Alex, is Ross Kingdom Come? Yeah.
• 1:02:40
  Sam and Edgar: Why is that happy?
• 1:02:41
  Sam and Edgar: What's, like, resistance and…
• 1:02:44
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, we didn't say I had to be happy. I said I could go…
• 1:02:47
  Sam and Edgar: I just got slammed for not being happy, so I want…
• 1:02:50
  Tad Eggleston: No, I only slammed you for not being happy because you called it the Happy Club.
• 1:02:57
  Sam and Edgar: I'm teasing, I'm teasing. Whatever you guys pick, I'll go with. I'm fine.
• 1:03:03
  Tad Eggleston: There's a recent series called I Heart Skullcrusher that's kinda cool.
• 1:03:13
  Sam and Edgar: I'm… I'm… whatever you guys suggest. I read public domain.
• 1:03:16
  Sam and Edgar: I read. You're sex criminals.
• 1:03:18
  Sam and Edgar: I read All-Star Superman, so I'm good with it. Whatever one you guys pick.
• 1:03:23
  Tad Eggleston: Mariko Tamaki and Nicole Goo's new book definitely falls into the…
• 1:03:29
  Tad Eggleston: Resistance, Hope, and Survival, and has some humor in it, too.
• 1:03:36
  Tad Eggleston: We could do Hulk Teach. That's… that's got lots of the funny.
• 1:03:43
  Sam and Edgar: Wasn't our first book, Zoe Thorgood's Journey to the Center?
• 1:03:47
  Tad Eggleston: Well, that… that was a separate thing.
• 1:03:49
  Sam and Edgar: Oh, yeah.
• 1:03:57
  Tad Eggleston: Great British Bump Off.
• 1:04:00
  Tad Eggleston: Really, anything by John Allison could be fun, too.
• 1:04:04
  Sam and Edgar: Kyle Stark's, assassination.
• 1:04:07
  Tad Eggleston: I… well, that's the one he did with, with Erica Henderson.
• 1:04:13
  Tad Eggleston: I could do 6 Sidekicks, I could do Sex Castle, I could do… yeah, I could do anything Kyle Starks.
• 1:04:19
  Sam and Edgar: Well, Starks has kind of got that weird, you know, happy…
• 1:04:22
  Tad Eggleston: Hmm.
• 1:04:24
  Sam and Edgar: But, see, Doug Wagner's stuff is pretty good, plus…
• 1:04:27
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, I would be willing to do Doug Wagner.
• 1:04:31
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I'd be willing to do anything that we've talked about.
• 1:04:35
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, I don't know any of them. That's what I think you guys should pick, because I've… most of those I've read, so I…
• 1:04:42
  Sam and Edgar: What would you guys like that you haven't read that you want?
• 1:04:49
  Sam and Edgar: It's really up to you, cause I… I…
• 1:04:52
  Sam and Edgar: I read a lot, so I have…
• 1:04:54
  Tad Eggleston: I think in some ways, I want Mig to pick, but I know that we have… I know that we have to give her choices, unless there's things that she already knows about that are on her list that she wants a excuse to read.
• 1:05:10
  Sam and Edgar: And don't say so now.
• 1:05:11
  Mig Monagas: The only one that I can think of that I already read was Better Ray Bill. I liked it a lot. I can't think of anything else that I've read that is hopeful and joyful.
• 1:05:25
  Sam and Edgar: Happy. Just say it, happy.
• 1:05:31
  Mig Monagas: Murder Falcon is also… Very good.
• 1:05:34
  Tad Eggleston: did murder Falcon.
• 1:05:36
  Mig Monagas: Really?
• 1:05:37
  Sam and Edgar: Yeah, that was… that was a… that's a great read.
• 1:05:39
  Mig Monagas: Okay.
• 1:05:42
  Sam and Edgar: As long as no one says Space Mullet, I'm fine.
• 1:05:45
  Mig Monagas: Which one?
• 1:05:46
  Sam and Edgar: Space wallet.
• 1:05:48
  Mig Monagas: Oh.
• 1:05:49
  Sam and Edgar: Not like Spaceball.
• 1:05:54
  Sam and Edgar: I'll give him that it was his first book, or, like, digital, but…
• 1:06:06
  Sam and Edgar: I'm trying to think, what was something recent that I read that was happy, like…
• 1:06:11
  Sam and Edgar: I've been reading a lot of these off, like, you know, like, non… Non-popular books,
• 1:06:22
  Sam and Edgar: I read, what is it, the Bible something, Jesus versus the vampires? That was intriguing.
• 1:06:30
  Larry Woods: Yeah, I can't think of anything right now that I've read that's, like.
• 1:06:33
  Larry Woods: joyful. Like, there's elements of joy, But not…
• 1:06:38
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I actually kind of meant funny.
• 1:06:43
  Larry Woods: Well, also that, too.
• 1:06:45
  Sam and Edgar: For me, funny recently was,
• 1:06:48
  Sam and Edgar: was, assassination. Rock Candy Mountain was…
• 1:06:52
  Tad Eggleston: Rock Candy Mountain's got some humor.
• 1:06:54
  Sam and Edgar: was, was, was funny.
• 1:06:59
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, Gru is all funny.
• 1:07:02
  Larry Woods: crew?
• 1:07:03
  Tad Eggleston: group?
• 1:07:04
  Sam and Edgar: Would you all agree with me.
• 1:07:05
  Tad Eggleston: Sugio Aragones?
• 1:07:09
  Sam and Edgar: God, I haven't read that since I was a kid.
• 1:07:13
  Sam and Edgar: Grendel?
• 1:07:16
  Tad Eggleston: Grendel, we're about to do on the regular podcast.
• 1:07:19
  Sam and Edgar: Really?
• 1:07:20
  Tad Eggleston: So I don't know if I want to double up on it.
• 1:07:22
  Sam and Edgar: Oh, I… am I on the Grendel podcast?
• 1:07:25
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's our regular Saturday morning, if you wanna, like, get up on Saturday mornings for a while.
• 1:07:32
  Sam and Edgar: I might jump in on those. I'm a huge Grendel fan, so…
• 1:07:36
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, we're gonna… I'll talk to you more about it later. Actually, since we're having trouble, I should probably stop recording now. We'll leave it to be a mystery, at least to the people listening.
• 1:07:48
  Tad Eggleston: We'll figure it out, and then we'll send it out to other people who might join us.
• 1:07:54
  Tad Eggleston: But for 22 Panels and Psychocomicology, this has been the Joy, Resistance, Hope, and Survival Book Club and Support Group, and we will see you after the next page.
• 1:08:06
  Sam and Edgar: And so…