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Talks to Daniel Knight about my choice of The Time Meddler (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. A hamster with a blunt penknife
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  for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
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  Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Penknife.
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  The A Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
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  I am here today with a man of distinction, of extreme moral
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  value, of smart charisma, of a magnitude rarely seen amongst
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  humanity. Mr. Daniel Knight.
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  Hello. Thank you.
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  I shall. I shall now remove this
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  Winchester 73 from your spinal cord after you've said such nice
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  things. Please do, because I was worried
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  about what that might be. You know, you should be very
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  careful about coming up behind me like that.
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  I'm sorry. Oh look, we're here for Episode
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  4 of The Time Meddler, and I believe that we've got some
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  snogging, marrying, and avoiding to do.
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  Yes, well, we were so impressed with Fraser.
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  Gregory's very highbrow question about whether was to discuss
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  whether Dennis Spooner is more more instrumental in the success
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  and longevity of of Dog Two than anyone else in the 1960s.
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  And then he goes and spoils it all by you know.
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  Coming up with Snog Mary Swill with the contents of your
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  chamber pot through the window of your sweat cell.
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  Sorry, I'll say that again, because I'm saying Swill with
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  the contents of your chamber pot through the window of yourself.
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  Actually, it's not the contents of his chamber pot, it's the cup
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  of tea that he throws back at him.
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  Which actually is quite disturbing because you think
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  that tea would be very hot anyway.
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  So Gregory, he's got his mind in the gutter or?
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  Rather in the sewer. In the chamber pot.
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  So who would you, who would you eat at?
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  Stephen, Edith or the monk? Who would you as if snog, marry,
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  swirl with the contents, etcetera, etcetera.
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  Stephen, Edith or the Monk? I mean I want to snog Stephen
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  because he's very handsome but he's you're right.
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  He's just a bit too bullshit and and peak headed in this episode
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  so he can have the poo in his face.
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  Edith Arsal Snog. Because you know I can say that
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  arsenal someone from 1066. The hell of an admission and so
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  that means I'm who am I marrying?
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  I'm the monk. The monk.
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  I hope you'll be very happy together.
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  I give it six weeks. You know how naughty I am.
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  So me and the monk together we'll have a great old time
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  going around pervert in the course of history.
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  And and I have to say, there was that scene when he was sat on
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  the the, the little hillock and he sort of just closed it and
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  sort of. Folded it sort of crossed his
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  legs together and you can see that he wasn't wearing trousers,
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  which is, you know, a man after my.
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  Really. Not.
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  Not really what I wanted to see. I feel like, you know, with
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  these villains in inverted commas, should have companions,
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  you know, It's quite a fun idea. The Master should have a
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  companion, the Ronnie should have a companion, and I will be
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  the Monk's companion. Well, Ronnie does have a
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  companion, doesn't she? She has.
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  Well, in dimensions in time, doesn't she?
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  She has thingy. I don't say it too loud.
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  Mark fancies that guy so much. What?
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  Not Syria West. Samuel West, he called Syrian.
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  Isn't he in dimensions? In time?
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  Is he? Yeah, Mark, I think that should
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  be 10 times the length he's mad do.
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  You know what I I remember watching Dimensions in Time and
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  thinking it was great fun. And I I yeah.
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  So I'm not going to say a bad word about it.
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  I watched. It last week and then it helped
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  to helped to raise lots of money.
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  So there we go. Plus also had one of the highest
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  ever ratings for a Doctor Who story.
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  Yeah, hilarious. Well, I'll tell you what, Didn't
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  have the highest rating for a Doctor Who story, but still had
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  a respectable rating all the same.
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  Because he did doing very well. Is the Time Meddler episode
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  four? Yeah.
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  And back in 1965 it was, I can show you, I can tell you about
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  8.4 million. 8 point 8.3 million Yeah.
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  What was the four? So you got 8.9 for part 18.87.7
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  and 8.3, so still in the top 30 for the shows for shows of the
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  week. So it's very respectable.
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  Would you? Not as high as the chase, but
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  there we are. Well, it's Daleks in it.
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  Next time they do the Daleks and the monk and we're through the
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  roof, We're hitting here. Would you care to take a tour of
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  my home, the monks? TARDIS.
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  I'd be delighted. I'd be delighted.
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  Reminded me of Amelia Rumford then.
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  Well, well, count us in then. And I was OK, I'll give you the
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  tour. OK, counting down 54321.
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  Off we go. Bloody chamber pot, honestly.
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  He does also ask Fraser if where are we?
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  That's the thing about posts on on Twitter.
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  They all go everywhere. Why doesn't the Monk have an
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  iPod or ACD player? Possibly because they weren't
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  invented in 1965. He's very nice.
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  He's, yeah, he's. Nostalgic.
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  He's going for the Yeah. I mean, there's a guy in like 7.
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  Who has a a wind up Gramophone, isn't he?
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  Oh, can't remember What's bounty TP McKenna?
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  Who plays President? Is it Sarkov?
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  Sarkov. Yeah.
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  Yeah. Very dreary.
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  Yes, but you love how the fact that he's got that sort of high
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  console compared to the doctors. It's, it's the deluxe model,
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  it's the the, yeah, the coupe, sort of, yeah.
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  It reminds me, Deb and I, we went on, we were coming back
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  from Scotland one year and we stopped off at a Days Inn and
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  they said would you like a deluxe, deluxe room?
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  And we said Oh yes, please. And really all it was was just
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  extra, extra extra plug sockets. That's all it was.
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  I was too scared to ask then. Look at that high angle shot
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  there to get out of the room. Which yeah, you could probably
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  have only got it in TVTV Centre in the studios there rather than
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  at Riverside or or Lime Grove. I mean it feels big as well.
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  Look, they feel curious. He's got like a study over here.
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  And then I mean the the, the monastery set must be quite,
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  quite big and quite spread out. Then you've got, of course
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  you've got it's the beach in this one.
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  I can't remember now. You see that statue at the back
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  there? I want to tell you about the
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  adventure the monk and I had on the we were to the future.
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  Ghana it was, And this dreadful haunted house featuring robots
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  of Frankenstein and Dracula. Was Dracula telling telling you
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  to don't go, don't go? He was trying but we grabbed
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  that stature and hot footed it back to the TARDIS as soon as we
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  could. Oh, all of this dialogue is
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  fantastic. Meeting Leonardo da Vinci,
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  putting the money in the bank? Absolutely.
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  But this is Dennis Spooner at his best.
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  He's having so much fun. Here.
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  Very cheeky, isn't it? Yeah.
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  And it's almost like, oh God, Matt, if this was another show,
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  you could just take this further and further, couldn't you?
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  Well, give it time off. It will do it.
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  Maybe you can take it a bit too far.
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  But it's just nice and simple. It's the the joke and that's why
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  it's so funny that why that's why the joke works.
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  It's it's it's really funny and it's it's really a simple idea
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  And kids will know about 1066 Battle of Hastings, one of the
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  most taught of taught subjects in in school history.
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  So they'll know about 1066. They'll know about King Harold
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  and and about how and how he had to go up north to Stamford
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  Bridge and then came down to to back to Hastings.
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  This is another brilliant scene, this whole.
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  So that's it. You're a time meddler.
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  Are you meddling in this time, Daniel?
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  And he goes, he goes, It's more fun my way.
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  Dr. It is, isn't it? I love the fact that he the idea
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  of the, he says. Well, how do you think they
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  built Stonehenge without the help of my handy gravity
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  machine? And oh, does he talk about the
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  pyramids as well? They should put that in the
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  because I live near near Stonehenge, is about two miles
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  away from where we live and there's this massive visitor
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  centre which costs a fortune to go into and it basically tells
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  you we don't know how it was built.
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  They should just put that. They should just put that scene
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  on. Yeah, totally.
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  I love it, what it says later. It was a You are utterly
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  irresponsible. What are we going to do with
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  this fellow? I love the fact that he sort of
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  loves him and have a bit of a full sense of security here.
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  We're saying, oh, it's a wonderful plan.
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  It's this wonderful plan. So glad I was here.
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  Yes. It makes me feel very pleased,
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  Daniel, that I was here to prevent this disgusting
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  exhibition. Oh, I knew this was going to
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  happen. I'm so sorry.
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  But it's such quotable dialogue, isn't it?
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  Really. The other ones called OOF.
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  Oh, not going to make a terrible joke.
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  It plants yourself on your head because it's memorable.
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  But it's a delivery as well. Yeah, I love it when the doctor
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  is sort of morally indignant, you know, or or just shouting.
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  Remember that sequence in the war games where he's like, how
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  dare you treat me like the SAR? Yeah, I've been waiting my whole
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  life to enter a building like that.
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  Oh, I'd love to, yes, I would love to go in and start mouthing
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  and say how dare you treat me like this, how this is this
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  absolute. Yes, I'd love to do that.
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  Just to see the expression of people's faces.
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  You said no car to meet me on my arrival, and now you had insult
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  to entry by doubting my credentials.
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  I've got a question. Given that Peter Butterworth is
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  quite a well known comedic actor, why is it that?
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  Fans seem to accept his casting, but forward 20 years later and
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  they're throwing their toys out of the pram at casting of people
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  like Ken Dodd, who I think actually plays it very well and
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  plays the part that he he's been chosen to play really well.
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  Why? Why is it?
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  Is it? Yeah.
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  One, I don't think there was an ownership of the show at this
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  point. I felt like it was people
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  discovering it and just enjoying it.
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  And there was a fan base at this point too.
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  I think J&T came along and he dangled the carrot and gave the
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  fans too much attention and too much power, and then they all
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  felt as if their voice should be heard.
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  We're in a position now, Daniel, where everybody feels like their
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  voice should be heard and is the most important one.
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  And we're sort of split between two.
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  Obviously you've got me off on one now.
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  We're split between two sets of those people that know their
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  opinion is subjective and those that think their opinion is
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  facts. And I feel like that the latter
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  was the dominant force in the 80s and they were powerful
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  enough and they were given enough sort of exposure to the
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  show to make their voices heard when somebody like Bonnie
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  Langford or Ken Dodd were, And it's unfortunate, never should
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  have happened. No, I love the way this guy runs
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  off. He's so funny.
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  Yeah, like a little bit, I guess.
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  What? Look at Vicky's face now.
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  She's like, oh, oh, awful. Look at his plans.
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  Oh, and now we get all four of them together, waiting for this
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  all the way through the story. And we oh, Vicky gives him a big
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  hug. Yeah, you know the bit where
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  he's pulling the dimensional control?
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  He's going get away, get out, get out.
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  Yes, Mr. Taylor, Where's that string dough boy?
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  I've done it. I've got it.
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  I do think that they really treated Maureen O'Brien badly
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  because she was in effect, she was sacked because she was.
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  She came back after a holiday after they'd finished Galaxy 4,
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  and then they had Mission to the Unknown, which was the extra
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  episode to cover the fact that Planet of the Giants Planet of
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  Giants had been cut from 4 episodes to three.
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  And then as soon as she comes back to start work on the myth
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  makers, she's told you this, these are your last four
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  episodes. She basically, she's basically,
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  she's given four weeks notice and that's maybe that's why she
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  hated Dr. You know, I think she saw come to come to terms with
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  it now. But maybe that's why I it's such
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  a weird one because I feel like three would have a far the the
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  continuity of three. It would have a far easier ride
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  if it was the Doctor, Stephen and Vicky throughout the entire
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  run. Yeah.
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  And they're both written out at the end of the season.
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  And Polly and Ben are brought in that role, caller companions,
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  Katarina killing her off, Sarah killing her off.
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  And then Dodo, who I like, despite my good sense.
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  It's so interesting, just seeing who comes and goes, that sort of
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  revolving door. But I do think Stephen, Vicki
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  and the first Doctor have brilliant chemistry.
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  Would have liked to have seen more of that.
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  Even in Galaxy 4, which is interminably boring.
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  They're wonderful in it, the three of them.
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  And did you, did you hear what was mooted?
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  Her. What was that?
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  So she was supposed to be Katarina in the diocese master
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  plan. They were going to kill her
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  office I. Wondered.
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  I did wonder if they they the idea that's actually on her
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  that's written down, but they were going to do that.
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  Can you imagine? That would have been, I think
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  they would have been far more devastating than Earth shock, I
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  think, because as a kid I'd read that two companions have been
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  killed off. So in a way, it almost prepared
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  me for the fact that you know. That last few minutes in a in a
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  shock. It was.
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  It was a shock it was and it was a very sad moment.
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  But it I I it's sort of yeah. But for it to have happened to
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  Vicky who is a long standing character, it it doesn't.
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  Not saying it doesn't work for for Katarina but it would have
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  been so much more impactful if it had been Vicky.
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  I think there would have been complaints that would have been,
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  but I don't think he would have done, no.
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  Did you see that sequence was played just then.
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  I know I'm going on about Heartland a lot, but I just, I
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  need to celebrate him because the monks going, you know, I
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  could put Hamlet on television like that.
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  And then he's going, Oh yes, I do understand, yes.
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  He's smiling as if the idea is really fun.
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  And then he suddenly turns and go, what are we going to do with
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  this fellow? You know, he wants to change the
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  whole pattern of history. Oh, he plays it brilliantly.
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  God bless him for choosing Hartnell.
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  It was such a savvy choice. Yes, if a hands with a blunt pen
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  knight becomes known as you know, stroking William Hartnell
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  podcast, all the better. Oh, I've just said oh this
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  Simes, Pierce says. I love the Time Meddler.
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  One of my favourite all time favourite stories that has one
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  of the best written lines of dialogue written between the
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  doctor and the companion ever written.
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  And he quotes the the the space helmet for a cow line, which,
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  thank you, Simes. Thank you for your sheer poetry.
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  Sheer poetry, my boy. Oh my God, he's got Vikings
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  carrying atomic weapons there. Oh, Stephen.
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  Grunting. Yes, what I've got on the screen
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  as well. But look at these three
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  together. It's such a 30 and I don't think
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  the Doctor, Stephen and Dodo works as well.
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  I don't think the Doctor, Stephen and Sarah Kingdom works
• 17:38
  as well. They're all interesting takes,
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  different dynamics, yes, but there's just something here.
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  But they didn't capitalize on enough.
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  No, no. And I think John Wiles, it was
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  pretty much sort of like a a fitted peak because somebody
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  she'd complained about the dialogue.
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  And the you know what she'd been told to to say?
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  And it's, I'll just say the lines, dear.
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  It's not Shakespeare. Just go on with it.
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  What's interesting is Donald Tosh says in the Season 3
• 18:12
  documentary. I think it was on the
• 18:13
  Gunfighters. It'll be on the Blu-ray.
• 18:15
  So when it comes out, as far as he was concerned, he was told
• 18:21
  that she wanted to leave. So he, he had the myth makers
• 18:25
  written when she came back and she had a massive go and he was
• 18:31
  like, Oh my God, you know, like the scripts are written, we
• 18:34
  can't change them and the the scripts after this are being
• 18:37
  written. So I I think there might have
• 18:40
  been some miscommunication somewhere.
• 18:45
  Daniel, have you ever had a moment in your life where you've
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  been able to sort of stare at a camera and go he must be
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  stopped? I wish I was spent my entire
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  life quoting Doctor Who dialogue.
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  Oh, I do sometimes, yes. What's your most used phrase?
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  I I said it recently to somebody who said to me, oh, are you in
• 19:13
  charge then? And I said no, but I'm full of
• 19:16
  ideas. Oh, that's a good deal.
• 19:18
  You know both. Well, one of mine's an insult
• 19:20
  that I use all the time. People are so baffled because
• 19:23
  it's such a tongue twister. I was like your classic example
• 19:25
  of the inverse ratio size of the brain.
• 19:28
  They go, what are they? Yes, exactly.
• 19:31
  Yes. But my other favorite is.
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  Now. I'll give you 10 points.
• 19:35
  You can tell me what story this is from.
• 19:38
  I think you'll find most educated people regard mythical
• 19:41
  convictions as fundamentally animistic.
• 19:46
  Oh, dragon fire, is that? Yes.
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  So you're saying that someone? Should have had the ideas of
• 19:52
  Plato before Plato existed or something?
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  Or is it something like that? Yeah.
• 19:56
  Oh, Daniel, you've no idea what it is for me to have a
• 20:00
  conversation with another intellectual.
• 20:05
  Personally, I find most experiences border on the
• 20:08
  existential. Actually, I'll do.
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  I'll. Do.
• 20:16
  Oh dear. Oh, it's it's good to Edith
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  rescued them or untie them. Untie them.
• 20:22
  Yeah. I I stand by my decision that I
• 20:24
  think out of all of the the sort of secondary characters, Edith,
• 20:27
  the most well defined and certainly the best acted well.
• 20:31
  I'm not entirely sure where all those Doska's ceremonies have
• 20:34
  been set, but she's had a tour of the universe since then.
• 20:39
  And she's got a stick. She's got a stick, apparently.
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  She makes charming when charming.
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  Oh no, you can't. We can't do that, my child.
• 20:52
  Not until we stop this time. Meddler.
• 20:55
  Oh, there is that very weird sequence where Vicky picks the
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  TARDIS has been washed away. Yes, Doctor, we haven't got a
• 21:03
  time machine anymore. How many times do I have to tell
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  you, child? It could take up at a knee
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  angle. Well, this bit is quite comedic
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  because then he runs in, you know, all you need in this
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  sequence is, oh, I mean, it is is kind of pure comedy.
• 21:29
  Now, isn't that a lot of this? It is a bit, but it's got a
• 21:32
  nasty ending because they they suddenly.
• 21:35
  Find themselves surrounded by by Saxons.
• 21:37
  Yeah, so we know that they are going to reach a sticky end
• 21:41
  because Walnut compare to exact revenge.
• 21:45
  Oh, look at this. A little lighting on that
• 21:48
  though. Yeah, that's really sort of
• 21:51
  that. That's of harsh light towards
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  him. Heater Davison it often says,
• 21:56
  doesn't he, in documentaries and commentaries, that some of these
• 21:59
  60s stories look better than the 80s stories, but not just
• 22:03
  because they're in black and white, which lends itself to
• 22:05
  atmosphere just because they were better lit.
• 22:08
  They are better lit. I think it's a bizarre thing to
• 22:12
  forget. I know we talked about this
• 22:13
  earlier, about how they forget how to do certain things, but
• 22:15
  lie in the show. It's almost like somebody.
• 22:19
  'S shining a torch at him. I don't know, or sort of keeping
• 22:22
  a of the spotlight on him. Douglas Canfield just had a very
• 22:27
  visual eye, didn't he? He like he had a good shot or a
• 22:30
  memorable shot. I love his transitions.
• 22:36
  You know the the hammer coming down in Inferno, you know?
• 22:41
  So the Primals hit the man, yes? Or the Dalek, the, the.
• 22:46
  Sunlight or the sun reflected on the Dalek.
• 22:48
  Yes, that looks, yeah, that's a good one as well.
• 22:51
  I think he's doing, he's above and beyond what the point and
• 22:56
  shoot directors are doing at the time.
• 22:58
  Definitely. Which it might can't even point
• 23:00
  and shoot. He points somewhere above the
• 23:02
  action half the time. Do you write, Martin?
• 23:09
  I think his film work isn't as bad as his studio work.
• 23:13
  I think that that scene with the Mechanoids and the Daleks, the
• 23:17
  battle at the end, it's all done at healing, and that's quite.
• 23:21
  Quite atmosphere. Quite well done and quite well
• 23:23
  cut. And his stuff and the the on on
• 23:28
  location for the Dalek Invasion of Earth.
• 23:31
  It's quite, yes, that's quite good.
• 23:33
  Although I was always disappointed when I saw that you
• 23:35
  didn't see the four Daleks coming across the bridge in
• 23:38
  front of the Houses of Parliament because you don't.
• 23:43
  I don't think you really see that like that.
• 23:44
  That's that famous picture of all four of them.
• 23:46
  A bit like the side men coming down.
• 23:49
  The steps in front of Saint Paul's Cathedral, you don't you
• 23:51
  see it a little bit, but it's not quite as it looks in the
• 23:53
  picture that, you know, the famous sort of those pictures
• 23:56
  that you see in Doctor Magazine. And as a kid, that's another
• 24:00
  thing I always say where Mark picks up letters off the floor
• 24:04
  and I go, you know, take your hands off that, my child, going
• 24:07
  through people's private. That's, that's the private, yes.
• 24:11
  Yeah. Bless you.
• 24:11
  He does do a little bit of a slip on there, doesn't he?
• 24:14
  Oh, care though, I. Just exactly.
• 24:17
  It's so funny. Look, now look at this shot shot
• 24:20
  from below. They've got a wind machine going
• 24:23
  at them. The sound effects are going.
• 24:24
  The sea goes to the sea and the sky is moving.
• 24:28
  It's so simple. It's so.
• 24:33
  And there's a sense of optimism, isn't there, of them going off
• 24:37
  and having adventures together now?
• 24:38
  Yeah, what is it? Davidson says.
• 24:41
  Trim time, time ship, and a shipshape team ship.
• 24:44
  Shaped team Yes. Oh, David, GB.
• 24:48
  Says as a soft reboot of the series, was this right?
• 24:51
  The right way to end Season 2? Or should it have been held over
• 24:54
  to open Season 3? Maybe 2.
• 25:00
  It would have been, yeah. But it might have been a nice
• 25:02
  nice to to have this to wait for, for septet, for, you know,
• 25:05
  to start the series. I think it would have been a
• 25:07
  better season opener than Galaxy 4.
• 25:10
  Certainly I agree with that. Ian and Barbara leaving at the
• 25:13
  end of the season would tie up season one and two as seasons.
• 25:18
  Yes. Oh.
• 25:21
  Don't say that, since I'm getting too old for this sort of
• 25:23
  thing. Peter Butterworth, This was the
• 25:25
  same age as I am now. Oh dear.
• 25:28
  But I'll say you're looking better than him.
• 25:30
  Mind you, I do think in the 60s, you know, people looked older.
• 25:34
  I think. I think it was the war.
• 25:37
  I think, you know the the experiences that those those men
• 25:40
  and women went through so they they would look older than they
• 25:44
  actually are. If you look at Arthur Lowe in
• 25:46
  Dad's Army, I mean he looks sort of 60-70, but he was in his 50s
• 25:50
  when he started doing Dad's Army.
• 25:52
  I mean Purley as well. I mean that's a lined face.
• 25:55
  I mean he was always, he always looked older than he actually
• 25:57
  was. I think I'm certainly, I mean
• 25:59
  playing playing old men in his 40s in the carry ONS, it was
• 26:04
  always sort of playing. Older than he actually was, I
• 26:07
  think. Pert we did, I rather think.
• 26:08
  Pert. We live the high life, though,
• 26:10
  with the fags and the booze and all of that.
• 26:13
  He very much is his, you know. You know, winning and dining and
• 26:17
  everything else, yes, but the camera loved every crag on his
• 26:20
  face, didn't it? Just don't shoot.
• 26:22
  Just don't shoot him from up the nose.
• 26:25
  Did you see the monk there where he was like it's from the doctor
• 26:28
  and he thinks that's really funny, isn't he Realises what's
• 26:30
  going on. I've taken precautions to stop
• 26:34
  your time meddling and that that.
• 26:40
  Wonderful face, isn't it? And it's just that wonderful
• 26:43
  face of substance thinking. Is he going to How is he going
• 26:46
  to stop me? It's just so we sort of looks
• 26:49
  over his shoulder. Doesn't he like?
• 26:50
  Yes, maybe. Maybe he has release me.
• 26:58
  And I saw that sort of doubt in his mark, doubt in his face.
• 27:01
  It's so. It's such a wonderful face,
• 27:04
  isn't it? He's so twitchy and and then he
• 27:07
  goes, I wonder what he meant. Release me.
• 27:10
  And don't you think this special effect shock is is great?
• 27:15
  It's brilliant, isn't it? It's so well done for its, even
• 27:19
  for its, you know, regardless for its time, it's so good.
• 27:25
  And I love the sounds as well. It sounds really, it sounds like
• 27:29
  a TARDIS that's really gone wrong.
• 27:31
  That's, yeah, that's up the spell.
• 27:35
  That's it. Yeah.
• 27:35
  Maroon did 1060. 6/10/66 and then look at that shot there
• 27:40
  with the windows behind. Such a good set as well, but I
• 27:45
  think he's doing a long shot to just show sort of how desolate
• 27:49
  he is and how trapped he is. You know, he's in the corner of
• 27:52
  the set and he he sort of sits down with his hands, his hands,
• 27:55
  oh. Do you think the Doctor does
• 27:59
  come back? Is there a a missing maybe?
• 28:02
  Big Finish story. You know The Doctors or like a
• 28:06
  little sort of short, short story.
• 28:08
  Don't give them ideas, all right?
• 28:10
  They're no. I'm going to write it down now.
• 28:12
  I'm going to get that idea. Copyright on a notebook.
• 28:14
  So copyright Daniel Daniel Night.
• 28:16
  Put it on that site. What Lucy Puts Her Stories on T
• 28:19
  Spin and an Open Mind. Oh, OK, look at these shots.
• 28:22
  It's. Beautiful, isn't it?
• 28:24
  And Maureen O'Brien's eyes, made out of stars.
• 28:27
  Just pop. She does do wide eyed wonder
• 28:31
  very well, doesn't she? Maureen O'Brien.
• 28:34
  Hartnell looks beautiful there. Oh Daniel, I've really enjoyed
• 28:40
  that. I love that sort of ** dine
• 28:45
  starscape at the back looks so good.
• 28:50
  Oh yeah, Percussion, played by Charles Bottrell.
• 28:52
  So what is what is astonishing is like I did make a a
• 28:58
  comparison to watching Resurrection of the Dialects,
• 29:01
  which is an 80s story which technically should be a better
• 29:04
  bit of telly, and The Wedding of River Song, which is a 2010's
• 29:09
  story which you know, we should have learned all the lessons by
• 29:12
  then, but I think this is better.
• 29:17
  Yes. And now wants to play the arc
• 29:20
  The Steel Sky. No, thank you.
• 29:23
  Well, I've done that one recently as well.
• 29:24
  That was quite fun. The person came on and
• 29:27
  championed the monoids. Very brave person, Actual fact.
• 29:33
  I remember there was a picture of one of them in Doctor Who
• 29:36
  magazine, which is a kid I found a little bit unnerving.
• 29:38
  So what do I know as an adult? I, you know, I'm not.
• 29:43
  I'm not saying I pointed laugh at the monoids and it's, you
• 29:45
  know, you can see what they're trying to do.
• 29:48
  But yeah, facially, that sort of one eye sort of staring at you,
• 29:53
  yeah. I I could imagine kids being a
• 29:55
  little bit scared of them. I think as a picture they work
• 29:57
  better than as a movie. Moving.
• 30:00
  Yes, yeah. Waddling rather than moving
• 30:04
  Daniel, I thought that was charming and subversive.
• 30:09
  Yeah, what about the Time Meddler?
• 30:11
  Oh, I'm talking about the time. Med.
• 30:12
  Oh, OK. That's all right.
• 30:14
  I don't know. I mean, it is because it is.
• 30:16
  It's playing games with what we understand it is, yes.
• 30:20
  And it's just like in in its dialogue and its performances.
• 30:24
  I do think it's too long. I do think you could trim an
• 30:26
  episode. You probably could, but I don't
• 30:28
  think it's the only Doctor Who story that you can say that of,
• 30:31
  and the only episode I'll trim is the one that Harlow isn't in.
• 30:34
  Yes, well, I know. I just know you're going to
• 30:38
  choose Hartnell for your first thing.
• 30:40
  I'm scared you are. But we've now got to choose
• 30:42
  three things that we would recommend.
• 30:44
  And I've got a list. I'm sure you do, too.
• 30:46
  Let's start with you. I'm going to, I'm going to go
• 30:51
  for Peter Butterworth, who is just such AI mean.
• 30:55
  He's got such a wonderful, expressive face that is so
• 31:00
  perfect for the the Monk. Like you say, you don't want him
• 31:04
  to be blown up at the end and I think he does get his sort of
• 31:08
  just desserts. But it's a nice, it's a nice
• 31:11
  ending for him and maybe he, you know, hopefully he will learn
• 31:14
  his lesson. But it's and it's a really good
• 31:16
  performance. I mean he apart from laughing at
• 31:21
  the end when you see him in part one he's, it's completely
• 31:25
  silent. It's and it's all in his face
• 31:27
  and it's all in his, his expression.
• 31:30
  That performance, it's slightly sinister and when he sort of
• 31:33
  leans in towards the TARDIS and you hear him, he's sort of his
• 31:36
  ear to the door and he smiles. You think, oh this, what's this
• 31:39
  all about? It's so well done.
• 31:42
  So yeah, my first choice would be would be Peter Butterworth.
• 31:46
  My first choice is going to be Douglas Canfield because I don't
• 31:51
  think it's showy direction, but I think it's impressive all the
• 31:55
  same. Yeah.
• 31:57
  He focuses on the right things and that is getting the
• 31:59
  atmosphere right and presenting an authentic setting and then
• 32:04
  anything else that the scripts, the, you know, that it all works
• 32:09
  because we believe the world that we're in.
• 32:13
  Yeah. And you know he hasn't really
• 32:15
  got much to work with because he's he's got a beach setting
• 32:18
  and a forest and a monastery. You think Oh yeah.
• 32:21
  I make that impressive. Yeah.
• 32:22
  It's not an alien world or anything like that.
• 32:24
  It's not the crazy shit he gets down to in Dallas master plan,
• 32:27
  you know spaceship sets and things like that.
• 32:30
  But it's one of the best real life story of the season.
• 32:33
  I. Think so.
• 32:34
  Yeah, it looks definitely really gorgeous, and the judicious use
• 32:38
  of sound effects as well. And stock footage?
• 32:41
  Just masterful. OK, so next I'm going to choose
• 32:46
  the the double act that is Maureen O'Brien and Peter
• 32:50
  Purvis. And I think it's it's a travesty
• 32:54
  that this is only one of three stories they did together and
• 32:59
  it's the only one that we can watch in its entirety and.
• 33:04
  I know that they sort of fell out of love with Doctor Who but
• 33:07
  I think they seem to have made their peace with it and I'm and
• 33:10
  I wonder if it's now they've seen the stories and go as fact
• 33:13
  they're not as bad as they as they remember And her
• 33:15
  performance, if she was very critical of her performance, I
• 33:18
  hope she's not critical of it now.
• 33:20
  And it's nice that they're being involved with Doctor Who the
• 33:23
  world of Doctor Who and have embraced it again.
• 33:25
  So that's my second choice and they're watching the stories.
• 33:29
  Moyn O'Brien on the behind sofas, right.
• 33:32
  And whilst other people are being critical, she's laughing.
• 33:34
  I read off going, yeah, it's just delightful.
• 33:37
  She goes, it's funny little creature I am, you know, And
• 33:40
  she's sort of clapping and laughing and it's really
• 33:43
  wonderful because it is like she's rediscovering the magic.
• 33:46
  It must. It must be weird to watch
• 33:48
  yourself from so long ago. I've got home videos of me sort
• 33:53
  of about 8 years old. It is surreal before you've had
• 34:00
  all those life experiences. Yeah, it is, yeah.
• 34:04
  Well, then I'm going to mention the governor again.
• 34:09
  First, the one, the only William Hartnell who is just having a
• 34:13
  blast with this. You know, I think, one, he loves
• 34:16
  history, who he likes being sort of dominant in a script.
• 34:22
  And three, I really do think he likes coming up against another
• 34:26
  strong actor like he did with Derek Francis in the Romans as
• 34:30
  well. And I think if William Hartley
• 34:33
  was having fun, I am having fun. What the fun he's having just
• 34:40
  extends out to me watching him. I think he's a timeless
• 34:44
  performance. And so I think regardless of the
• 34:48
  production value or whatever, you could say about 60 stories,
• 34:50
  this is a performance that people of any age could enjoy.
• 34:55
  So yeah, William Hartnell is the best.
• 35:00
  OK, last oh, I'm going to go for the the Barry Newberry's
• 35:10
  Newberry's sets, which? I you know, as you've said
• 35:15
  they're very well shot by Douglas Canfield but the detail
• 35:18
  on it it looks looks really, really well done and yeah, I'd
• 35:26
  love to love to have seen it in colour.
• 35:29
  In fact that and that last shot, the wide shot where where the
• 35:33
  Monk is shouting I'll get you doctor.
• 35:38
  It's so well and you know the set looks really.
• 35:42
  It looks really well designed. Sometimes you see steps in dog
• 35:45
  two, which are always creaking and wooden and even if they're
• 35:48
  supposed to be metal or stone but it looked it, they they look
• 35:52
  realistic there and the the village with the the cottage and
• 35:58
  the the backdrop with the with the monastery and the exterior
• 36:02
  of the monastery with the light coming on.
• 36:04
  It's just, yeah, it's a really good, really good, well designed
• 36:08
  story and you're going to think I'm mad, but I'm going to say
• 36:18
  the scene I like the least is something I'm going to
• 36:20
  recommend. Which is the very tonally
• 36:26
  jarring moment where Edith is attacked.
• 36:30
  Not because I'm endorsing that, but because I think Doctor Who
• 36:34
  was experimenting in its early days and it was trying to see
• 36:40
  what's what sticks and what didn't stick.
• 36:43
  And it was bold and it was brave and it was ambitious.
• 36:46
  Sometimes they got it wrong and they got it wrong here.
• 36:51
  But I think they're very brave to try this this stuff.
• 36:55
  And I think when when we head into Trout, and especially in
• 37:00
  like season five, suddenly we're in this very formulaic territory
• 37:04
  where we can kind of guess the plot points and the content of
• 37:08
  most stories. Characters are quite similar
• 37:15
  when you get the the the trope of the the boss losing control
• 37:19
  in at least three stories over the tram period, I can think of,
• 37:23
  and in fact 22 pretty much after each other.
• 37:27
  You've got Robson and Fury from The Deep and then Jarvis Bennett
• 37:30
  in The Wheel in Space. So yeah, yeah, can it.
• 37:33
  It does a bit that it's play safe, which.
• 37:36
  You know, I, I, I love those, I love those stories.
• 37:39
  But it's it lacks the experimental flexibility that
• 37:44
  you get with the heart and era. I think, yeah, I think.
• 37:47
  I think the the rape scene, the scissors, all this.
• 37:50
  I do think they are inappropriate, but I do think
• 37:56
  this is a brave period of the show where they will say, can we
• 38:01
  do this? I can't, but I think.
• 38:05
  I think it is a richer show for them trying.
• 38:11
  Yeah, I'd also add sort of killing off a companion because
• 38:14
  that would have, I mean, if that had been Vicky, that would have
• 38:17
  been that would have been shocking.
• 38:19
  And I can see why they they they decided, no, they can't kill off
• 38:23
  Vicky because that would have traumatised 10 million viewers.
• 38:27
  I think at the time it was bad enough with Sarah, Kingdom and
• 38:32
  Katarina. Yes.
• 38:35
  Yeah, but to do it with the character that that that viewers
• 38:39
  have been have invested a good year's worth of episodes and of
• 38:43
  course it would have been sort of 3040 episodes that she did
• 38:47
  that would. Yeah, that would have been that.
• 38:50
  Yeah, I think that would have been too shocking.
• 38:52
  Oh, my little bonus thing as well, it's not little at all, is
• 38:56
  Dennis Spooner, who I think came into the the show in season 2
• 39:02
  and heard it on its head and beat it into a shape that we
• 39:07
  recognise today. Yes, yeah.
• 39:09
  That's not to say that David Whitaker did a bad job but I
• 39:12
  think he realised that for this show to last you need to the the
• 39:19
  the you can't change history not one line doesn't really work and
• 39:22
  you've got to you've got to have that that element of of meddling
• 39:27
  and and jeopardy and and it needs to be stopped.
• 39:30
  It's like it's like the Deep Space 9 effect if you'll pardon
• 39:33
  a terrible analogy and that is you add those creators come
• 39:37
  along series one to three and they put all the building blocks
• 39:40
  in place and create some memorable drama through it.
• 39:44
  And then it all stepped up a notch and became a lot more
• 39:47
  entertainment and fun and started doing fresh, new,
• 39:53
  original things from Season 4 onwards when new voices were
• 39:57
  coming into the show, and I think shaking up the show every
• 40:00
  couple of years, it's it happens again and again, doesn't it?
• 40:03
  The template changes again and again.
• 40:05
  That's. Why it's lasted 60 years.
• 40:07
  And why it's so fabulous? Because if there's a period that
• 40:11
  isn't for you, well, stick around folks.
• 40:15
  Yeah, absolutely. I.
• 40:19
  Think you delightful, didn't you?
• 40:21
  Yeah. Loved every minute of it.
• 40:23
  Well, maybe not the bit in Part 2, but yes.
• 40:26
  Oh, but if I chose that, that's terrible.
• 40:29
  Yeah, I'm a bad person. Wow, Daniel, where are we going
• 40:33
  next? I don't know.
• 40:36
  Because I keep thinking, oh, I'd quite like to do such and such
• 40:39
  an episode with you. And then it comes up on Twitter.
• 40:42
  Oh, and I'm going to oh, oh, you've done Pyramids and Mars or
• 40:45
  you didn't. Oh, you didn't.
• 40:46
  So I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm really worried
• 40:49
  that the only thing that's left is Underworld, Nightmare and
• 40:52
  Silver. No, actually, I'll let you into
• 40:54
  a little secret. I am going round again to give
• 40:57
  people a chance to talk about stories that have already been
• 41:01
  done. And I've sort of started with
• 41:03
  the ones that were taken right back in the misty dawns of time.
• 41:06
  So I've done kinder. I read on Castro, Valva.
• 41:11
  So you have a think about what has been covered.
• 41:15
  Yes. Now, because we'll try people's
• 41:16
  patience, but what I can say is that you will be featuring on
• 41:20
  the Hamster Book Club. Indeed, yes.
• 41:23
  We're doing the what's it called Shadow.
• 41:28
  Shadow in the Glass Shadow in the Glass, which is the 6th
• 41:32
  Doctor meets the Brigadier and well, so won't say anything
• 41:37
  else. It's a sport surprise.
• 41:40
  He's on the cover, though, not on my version, he isn't.
• 41:43
  I've got the, I've got the, the, the reprim.
• 41:47
  Yeah, they got a bit more tasteful then, but we're also
• 41:51
  you, me. Lucy and Dave Rennie.
• 41:54
  Dave Kettle We're going to be heading back to Season 2, to
• 41:59
  another planet of the Planet of Evil and Planet of Fire we were.
• 42:04
  They're going to be doing Planet of the Giants and did we also
• 42:07
  mention about we might be exploring going a little bit
• 42:11
  little bit further not further back but still staying in the
• 42:14
  black and white era to to a bit of a a doppelganger to see at
• 42:21
  the doppel. Yeah, having.
• 42:23
  Yes, yes, maybe we're going to want.
• 42:26
  Enemy of the world, but right in the middle of all those cliches
• 42:30
  of Season 5 to the one story that isn't adhering to any of
• 42:33
  them. So Joe, what are you doing here?
• 42:37
  You try. You fail.
• 42:38
  For what? The moon doesn't fall out of the
• 42:41
  sky. I'm sure we'll have fun with all
• 42:46
  of that, absolutely. I think about.
• 42:50
  And another story in classic can do that you think I will do.
• 42:53
  Yeah, great. But I'm going to go to bed
• 42:57
  because in 5 1/2 hours I'm waking up again.
• 43:01
  I'm not going to go to bed because probably in less time
• 43:03
  than that I'm going to get an 8 year old or a three-year old
• 43:06
  coming in and going Dad, I need a wee, so yes.
• 43:09
  Leaves me to say thank you very much for your time as ever, and
• 43:13
  it's been a pleasure, Joe, as always.
• 43:15
  Thank you very much. No disrespect to anybody else,
• 43:18
  you are possibly the most charming guest I have here on
• 43:21
  Hansford Bloom, so thank you very much.
• 43:23
  It's been a joy.