Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 4 - Was Paul Excommunicated?

Transcript

Ep. 4 - Was Paul Excommunicated? · Martyr's Row

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Philip was born at Bethsaida in Galilee and was
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first called by the name of Disciple. He labored
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diligently in Upper Asia and suffered martyrdom
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at Heliopolis and Phrygia. He was scourged, thrown
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into prison, and afterwards, crucified. 54 A
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.D. Hello again, Paul. Oh, hey, it's good to
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see you. How in the world are you? It's good
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to see you. I'm pretty good Have you ever wondered
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or have you ever asked the question or did your
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mother ever tell you? What your name meant? They
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did. Well, my dad did actually. Really? Yeah.
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How young did you know? We were pretty young.
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Okay, cuz I want to say like around 10. Did he
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like sit you down? No, he wasn't like, son, sit
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down. This is what your name means. I actually
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don't remember how that conversation went, but
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it was like the me and my two younger siblings
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were like, we want to know what our names mean.
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Okay. It was kind of like, it just kind of came
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up. Oh, interesting. Yeah. This is like dinner
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time. We're just like hanging on the couch. Yeah.
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We're just like, what? It's kind of like when
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you're a kid, you can't remember what your middle
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name is. Yeah. And like, they have to tell you
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over and over. I don't remember that. I actually
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remember that vividly. Really? Yeah. Someone
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asked me, like, what's your middle name? I was
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like, I don't know. I was like, hey, mom, what's
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my middle name? You're like frantic. What is
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your middle name? Franklin Thomas. You have two
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middle names. I actually have two. Is it hyphenated?
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Mm -hmm. Why is it hyphenated? I actually don't
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know. I guess my family, my... My parents were
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fans, which is funny, because me and my... Of
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Franklin Thomas? No, just a hyphen, I guess.
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Because me and my younger brother... They should
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have just called you hyphen. Hyphen. Paul hyphen.
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No, but the symbol. So just... It looks like
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my last name. Your first and last name are hyphenated.
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They'd be kind of cool, actually. I know. And
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then you'd be like, what's your middle name?
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It's hyphen. It's hyphen. But just the... It's
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hyphenated? The way you said that was so German.
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It's hyphen. I guess that'd be more Swedish.
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Nordic. Hyphen. Oh, I guess like, yeah. That
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is closer to where you're from. It's on the whole
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other side though. One of those great lakes.
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The greatest of lakes. Oh, how great they are.
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What's your middle name? My middle name is Reggie.
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Oh, that's cool. It's interesting though because
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it's Technically short for Reginald. Yeah technically
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Except it's not for me. There's just Reggie.
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Yeah, so like government. Yeah, okay. That's
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the government gave it to me. Yeah They used
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to do that and your name shall be It's all Ellis
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Island right there. Oh, yeah. Well, that makes
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sense. But they would change your name. Because
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they're just like, we don't know how to say that.
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Right. It's this now. Yeah. Names are weird,
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though. Yeah. So the thing that was annoying
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for me was, and still kind of happens, I feel
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like more people, because I'm a little bit older,
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they don't ask more about it. But my middle name
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is Reggie. Yeah. Which typically, as a first
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name, would be short for Reginald. Right. Which
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is not my middle name. My middle name's Reggie.
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So when people would ask me and I would tell
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them what my middle name is, they would be like,
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oh, short for Reginald. And I'd be like, why
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would I shorten my middle name? That's a good
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point. Why would I just lie to you? My middle
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name is a nickname? Yeah. Why would I do that?
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That's actually, that's funny. Yeah. So like,
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yeah, I don't know. Why would I do that? I can't
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even think of it like, what's your middle name?
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Oh, it's John. Short for Johnny. Isn't Johnny
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short for John? I can't even think of - Well,
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John is like the regular name. Johnny's like
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the nickname for it. There are a few names -
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Okay, so Johnny. Like my name is like, all the
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nicknames are longer than my actual name. Yeah,
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that makes sense. Yeah, so it's not short for
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anything, it's just - You wanted to dress it
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up a little bit. You mean your first name? Yeah,
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my first name. It should be Paulianus. That's
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right. That's the government official. Is it
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really? No. You know what's funny? It's actually
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a funny story about my name. Is that Greek, though?
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Paulianus? I think, because it's a Latin name,
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just like Paulius or something. Oh yeah, it is
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Latin. Yeah. It's actually Roman, but built in.
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That's true. But they spoke Latin. Well, yeah,
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derived from, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting
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all technical over here. True. So funny story.
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That's good. So my parents, so my dad, his name
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is Franklin Thomas Uly. OK. And he was like,
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I really want to name, I really want a junior.
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OK. And it's funny, there's something about certain
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guys that are like, I want them to have my name.
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That's a good point. I don't share that. I don't
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either. But it's funny that my mom didn't either
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she just like uh -uh. Well. She's not a guy.
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That's true She's like I will not have a little
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Franklin, Jr. That sounds like a TV show And
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so they went back and forth on it for a long
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time okay, and then One day my dad doesn't even
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know why he's just like how about Paul? Okay,
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my mom went Yes, because she just didn't want
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it to be fun. Confirmation from the Lord. Oh,
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so your middle name is your dad's first and middle
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hyphenated. Yeah. Did it have to be hyphenated?
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No, I don't know why they chose to hyphen. They
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like it. I guess they liked it. Yeah. But here's
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what's funny about that. So my dad grew up Catholic.
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OK, that is funny. And it's hilarious, right?
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real neat slapper and I'm trying to remember
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what it was. My mom grew up Catholic. But they
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actually get like a like a Christian name. I
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wonder if they knew each other. They may have.
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If you're Catholic. Every Catholic knows. It's
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true. Christian name. Because I can't remember
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why but they get like a like a new name. Okay.
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And my dad's name was Paul. Is it after catechism?
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I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so his
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was Paul. Oh weird and so um I don't think that
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was actually changed to paul yeah that's weird
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which is kind of funny yeah um but yeah so in
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a way I am wait a strange junior oh so your your
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first name is my dad's catholic new is your dad's
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like salvivic realized yeah new name yeah or
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i guess coming of age name Yeah, I don't remember
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exactly why they get it or what that's for but
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that's yeah, that's the one that he had hmm I
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was like that's kind of funny. So he in a way
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got his way. Yeah. Oh, yeah, so you end up being
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He's sneaky and my mom didn't know that like
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a few years ago She didn't know his Christian
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name But yeah, for me, I'd always be like, yeah,
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my middle name's Reggie. Short for Reginald?
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No. No. And then it's like, well, we're not going
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to be friends. I'm not. Why would you ask such
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a question? It is kind of a silly question when
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you think about it. It is. And I wouldn't explain
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it. I would just go, no. And they'd be like,
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oh, yeah, why would I ask that question? I've
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never asked or heard anybody ask that question.
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They just walk away in shame. They pull their
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pants down and then they just walk away. And
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I'm not gonna explain why I said that. That is
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so deep of an inside joke. All right, let's just
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bypass it. I like that. But there is a way to
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know if you're in the know. Still, even more
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confusing. You have to watch Tipsy Theology.
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Oh, did I say it there? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
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Then I thought it was just like we were hanging
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out and I said that. Okay. Yeah. So go watch
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our episodes on Tipsy Theology. Yeah. Okay. So
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that's interesting. But we didn't talk about
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what your name means. No, so my name actually
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means smaller humble. It does. Yeah. Yeah. What's
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the other? I guess they're foreshadowing because
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I'm not a tall person. What's the other one?
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Yeah, they should have picked something else.
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Which is funny because Paul and Stephen, do you
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know what Stephen means? I don't. Stephen means
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crowned one or of royalty and renowned. Oh, you're
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a man of renown? Topic shift. But it is funny
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because Paul means small and humble. Yeah. And
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Stephen means crowned one or strong and of royalty.
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That's crazy. So like our names mean the opposite
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of each other. And it's funny because bilically.
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The small one took out the crowned one. Yeah,
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that's wild actually. That's true. And then he
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was humbled. Yeah, which is kind of a salvation
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story right there. It is. That's kind of cool.
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The Bible is full of salvation stories. It's
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literally everywhere. Literally everywhere. It's
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literally all you'll find. The whole thing is
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actually about that. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert
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on the Bible. Have you even finished the book
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yet? It's got a really good ending that hasn't
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happened yet. Or it was fully fulfilled in 70
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AD. If this is the new spot, we got a lot of
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explaining to do. Oh, boy. Well, I think it's
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theme song time. It's time to write some music.
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You ready? Yeah. Here we go. Three, two, one.
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And we're back. That was a good snap. It was.
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Thank you. So you had a shower thought today.
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A shower thought. Yeah, I was thinking about,
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I was gonna think, I was thinking about coining
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that phrase. I was gonna think and then I thought.
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Yeah, I had a, which is funny because martyrs
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wrote the name was a shower thought. Oh, really?
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Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, it was like all
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of a sudden I just. Was taking a shower and I
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was like, what am I doing here? Every every significant
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decision has been made in the shower. Yeah Well
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cuz it's like the one place now that like you
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can't like I guess some people do stay on their
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phones or like she's crazy Yeah, it's it's like
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just get away from it for at least a little bit
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But very few places where we can actually be
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alone with our thoughts. Yeah, the shower seems
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to be one of those. Yeah, it's great Yeah, it
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is great. Yeah. Yeah, and it's like a time warp
11:10
Yes, it's like was that three minutes or 30 minutes.
11:14
It's kind of nice. Don't know. I have no clue
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No way to know no way of knowing when you get
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out. It's like whatever time it was it is so
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good I've been thinking about switching back
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to my flip phone. Okay, it's like I just hate
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staring at that screen Well on behalf of all
11:27
the people watching we support you Comment below
11:32
if you support my decision I won't see it because
11:35
I don't have a smartphone anymore. That's true.
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Yeah, you can just believe I will believe the
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Christmas magic. That we're all behind you. Yeah,
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so I had a shower thought because to be honest
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with you, the first couple of episodes was like,
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oh, like there's something there. OK, let's make
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up something. And the last episode just kind
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of fell apart into this weird country mush. They
11:59
can't all be winners. So I was like, I was just
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like, you know, a couple of hours ago, I was
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like taking a shower. I'm like. We need to have
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something like I need to actually think about
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it before walking in and like and then it just
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a song popped out Heck yeah, so I don't so I'm
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actually gonna ask you to do something Because
12:19
because there's a there's a call and response
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like there's a layered thing in the chorus And
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it's gonna be really hard because you haven't
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heard this I've never heard this yeah, and this
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just popped into my head a couple hours ago Okay.
12:35
So in some ways, I haven't really heard it either.
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That's part of what this is for. That's true.
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That's what we're doing here. So it's still pretty
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raw. But we'll figure it out. But alright, so...
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You fall in our spot. Yeah, so the... So we're
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in D. So it follows that melody. So I need you
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to go... Yeah. When you hit that? Yeah, so when
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we get to the chorus, that's on the downbeat.
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Two, three, four. Yeah. Okay. Some gang vocals.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, right on. So, but that's
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actually the lead part and then I'm gonna echo
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it. Oh, heck yeah. In a different way. I'm excited.
13:28
We'll try and I'll see if I can remember it.
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Okay. Cause I don't have the lyrics in front
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of me, but it's minimal. I know you're like,
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I can, I know I have access to it. I've never
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heard the lyrics though. I just know where they
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are. So, uh, we'll just try it and we'll see
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if I can remember it. And if not, then I'll reset
13:46
and we'll figure it out. Sweet. And they won't
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even know this happened. I know. That's true.
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Good point. We can just edit all this. But we're
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not. Cause you guys are here with us. This is
13:57
the writing room. That's true. Oh yeah, I guess
13:59
this is writing room. So I'll just start it and
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see if I can remember it. For this alone we give
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up our life For Christ in Him crucified We honor
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those who came before Who suffered and died for
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the Lord For this alone we give up our life For
14:47
Christ in Him crucified Try that verse again.
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Who suffered and died for the Lord For this alone
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we give up our lives For Christ in Him crucified
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That was fun That's my pop punk There's a few
16:15
things that I could do that could make it more
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pop I know cuz it's like a little bit droning
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and dark Yeah, but it has a poppy lyric to it.
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It does Yeah, so like I feel like yeah, and then
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the lyric just kind of fell into place and I
16:32
was like that's so cool. Oh this is This is exactly
16:34
what the show is. Yeah. That's exactly what it
16:38
is. Oh, you know what'd be kind of fun? I just
16:40
had this thought. OK. Is if we did like a gang
16:43
vocal thing for the martyrs row. And we had everybody
16:47
add their gang vocal. Yes. That would be cool.
16:49
If people sent in, we'll put up like a link for
16:51
people to upload their recording to. Yeah. And
16:54
then we just layer it all on. That'd be cool.
16:55
That'd be kind of fun. Well, we could also have
16:58
them like. Yeah, I was going to say like sing
17:01
the verses and stuff too. Oh, yeah. but yeah
17:04
um yeah i i that was actually really fun i want
17:09
to get like a i didn't make up for last week
17:10
bass yeah i know it's like don't that's your
17:13
apology song it's my swan song you don't have
17:16
to apologize for anything just like a droning
17:21
just like a bagpipe Like the what does that didgeridoo?
17:30
Oh, yeah. Oh, that's right. Some throat singing
17:33
that like Mongolian throat singing. Yeah. I don't
17:37
know what I did, but it wasn't that. But we should
17:42
have that. All right. Well, this is significantly
17:44
shorter than last week, too. And also you come
17:48
in with something. I know it's kind of fun. It
17:51
kind of makes me want to just do this as the
17:53
thing. I kind of like it. Do you want to do it
17:55
one more time? Yeah, let's do it again. Maybe
18:00
I can get it a little bit cleaner. Should I beatbox
18:04
over it? I'll see if I can make the melody a
18:08
little bit more pop punk. Okay. We'll just see
18:10
what happens. You want to try it? Let's do it.
18:12
Okay. We honor those who came before, who suffered
18:26
and died for the Lord. For this alone we give
18:32
up our life, for Christ in Him crucified. We
18:38
honor those who came before, who suffered and
18:44
died for the Lord. For this alone we give up
18:48
our lives, for Christ in Him. We honor those
18:56
who came before Who suffered and died for the
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Lord Will this alone He give up our lives For
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Christ in Him crucified Nice nice here we go
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three two one back to it. We're here. Here we
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are Paul, I think I had a question for you. Ooh.
20:24
But I don't remember what it was. Boy, was I
20:27
excited. What was the question? And we're back.
20:33
Welcome back. Paul, I've got a question. I can't
20:34
stop saying that. Welcome back. That was our
20:40
best snap. I like the energy of like, we just
20:45
ended with instruments calm. And then just so
20:48
much energy. Hey, that's what you're here for.
20:53
Welcome. All the energy. To hear for our energy.
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What? Welcome to hear for our energy. Those who
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have eyes to hear and ears to see. I tried to
21:09
say that, but I said it on accident. It's pretty
21:11
good. Yeah. OK, Paul, I have a question for you.
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Yeah, I'm ready. Are you ready? I'm ready. OK,
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full of joy. Okay, here's my question. As a Paul,
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I feel like you should be able to answer this
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question. Was Paul, the apostle, excommunicated?
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Based on some of the letters that I've seen this
21:32
boy write, I'm sure they're like, can we find
21:36
a reason, please? Are you saying excommunicated
21:40
from the early Christian church? I feel like
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one of the things that our podcast does well
21:48
is go, hang on, what does that word mean and
21:50
where is it supposed to be? So I like asking
21:53
a question that confuses the language. It's pretty
21:56
good. So Ice Communicated is specifically a Catholic.
22:00
As I say, isn't that only a Christian Catholic
22:03
thing? It is, but it's the word itself, but the
22:05
principle shows up all over the place. Yeah.
22:08
But I don't know what the Jewish form of that
22:10
would be. Because so Paul... I think stoning.
22:16
Yeah, good point. So I was excommunicated. You
22:19
were excommunicated. By stoning. Paul was like
22:23
three times then in that case. Yeah, good point.
22:25
That's crazy. Like if you don't know or haven't
22:28
read your Bible enough, Paul was literally stoned
22:31
to death but didn't die. And he walked back into
22:34
the same city. Yeah, apparently they just left
22:36
him for dead. Yeah. And then he just like...
22:39
That tickled. That was a rough night And then
22:46
just gets up and walks back into the city There
22:49
had to be at least one person who was like is
22:52
that is that a ghost? I'm pretty sure you're
22:55
dead. Yeah. Hey, dude. I threw a rock at your
22:58
face But it doesn't make me wonder it's like
23:01
was that like a one -off thing where it's like
23:03
that never happens Or is it like kind of calm?
23:06
We're like we thought we got them, but like well.
23:09
It's not a 100 % success rate Yeah, but you also
23:12
think about like wildlife. Oh true You know what
23:15
I mean because if you're beaten to an inch of
23:17
your life something's gonna come out and grab
23:18
you yeah Well, that's the whole thing of like
23:21
the good Samaritan true like the person that
23:23
was beaten on the road He obviously wanted help.
23:26
Yeah, cuz he wanted to get eaten by animals Yeah,
23:28
true. He's out in the sun. There's no way for
23:31
him to take care of himself. Well, we don't know
23:32
what time of day it is. I'm just assuming. From
23:36
the animations I've seen. And this is your animation
23:41
Bible podcast. That's where I make all my decisions.
23:46
Yeah, I mean that does shape our worldview majorly.
23:49
We need to do a whole episode on why cartoon.
23:51
Bible stories are wrong. And you shouldn't watch
23:55
them. Yeah. Or at least know that the storylines
23:58
are all mostly made up. And why specifically
23:59
veggie tales? Don't trust the veggies. Don't
24:04
trust the veggies. Not the veggies. The vegetable
24:07
stories. So was Paul excommunicated? Well, so
24:10
that makes me, I guess, ask a question with that
24:13
because part of his ministry is he was going
24:16
from city to city and he was first Going to the
24:21
temples right in reasoning with them there and
24:24
then out into the streets sure and so if he was
24:27
excommunicated Maybe the word didn't spread fast
24:29
enough mmm, but do you think he would not be
24:32
allowed back into the temples then oh Potentially
24:36
my guess would be he probably wasn't allowed
24:37
into the temple and that's that's when he went
24:40
to Paul. Yeah Yeah, and because like like we
24:44
see that like we were talking about this before
24:47
but we see that we see that Paul was called Saul.
24:51
Yeah, and then becomes Paul Yeah, and that's
24:54
the interesting thing is because I I don't know
24:56
if you're the same way I was on the impression
24:58
that his name was changed Yeah, like oh God gave
25:02
him a new name or well, we see like Simon become
25:05
Peter, right? It's it's characteristic of Jesus
25:08
to do that But it's interesting because then
25:10
when you look through it There's actually no
25:12
indication that he was given a new name sure
25:15
and actually I believe it was a writing It might
25:17
have been I think it's from Peter where he says,
25:20
and Saul, also known as Paul. Yeah. Which is
25:24
interesting, because it's like, wait, so he has
25:26
two names? Sure. But also Peter saying that is
25:29
interesting. Yeah, yeah. Because Peter, so we
25:33
don't actually know, I guess technically all
25:35
the disciples would have studied at the feet
25:37
of a rabbi. Yeah. Because they all studied it
25:40
with Jesus. But then are they recognized as rabbis?
25:46
So as students of a rabbi, are the disciples
25:49
technically recognized as rabbis within the Jewish
25:52
tradition at the time? I don't think they would
25:55
be. Well, there's no indication. Part of what
25:57
I say is because when they went up to speak in
25:59
front of leaders, they'd be like, who are these
26:01
unlearned men? Yeah, that's true. So it's like
26:03
they may, like Jesus, it was kind of like watching
26:05
on YouTube, where it's like, yeah, you have the
26:08
equivalent of a business degree, but it's YouTube
26:10
University. Yeah, good point. Yeah, we're like...
26:13
Yeah, like golf Like my only reference is I hope
26:17
I don't get struck by lightning for calling Jesus
26:19
YouTube No, but it's that type of thing is it's
26:23
like it there's a particular like I use golf
26:27
as the example just because like on YouTube it's
26:29
like there's this whole league of I think this
26:32
is within a bunch of sports too, but like there's
26:35
this whole league of YouTube golfers yeah, I
26:38
feel like this is kind of a hotter thing right
26:40
now, but But it's like there's there's these
26:45
YouTube golfers, but people that are actually
26:48
like on the PGA Tour so they're like tour professionals
26:52
that it's a completely different requirement
26:55
and There's they're seen as amateurs because
26:59
technically they have like amateur cards like
27:01
they're not considered pros But they potentially
27:04
could beat a pro in a one -on -one match so it's
27:08
like there's this interesting thing where it's
27:10
like there's this society that you have to work
27:15
your way into based on their rules and then there's
27:20
YouTube where you don't have to do that you can
27:24
just be that and build your own market and be
27:27
like well I have more people watching my videos
27:29
than are watching you on network television and
27:34
so because of that I feel like that has happened
27:36
through history in different ways But YouTube,
27:38
I feel like, is a good example. Yeah. Because
27:41
it has opened up a lot of information and people
27:43
to things that normally you'd have to go to school
27:45
for, or be an apprentice for. Yeah. But that
27:49
is one of those things is like, well, technically,
27:51
I mean, Jesus is not YouTube, but it's a good
27:55
example of maybe it was like this, where it was
28:00
really like he was technically learned under
28:02
rabbis. True. So anybody who learned under him
28:05
would be studying with a rabbi. Yeah. And they
28:08
called him rabbi. Yeah, they did. And he was
28:12
allowed to stand in the synagogue and read from
28:16
the scroll. True. We know that. It's a big deal.
28:19
It is. But I'm pretty sure that only rabbis could
28:22
do that. Oh, OK. Or at least leadership within
28:26
the synagogue. Because you'd have to be in some
28:28
position where they're like, yeah, give that
28:29
man the mic. Well, even now, you have to be like
28:32
an assistant rabbi in a temple down the street
28:36
from here. You'd have to be an assistant rabbi
28:38
to actually preach a sermon in a temple. It makes
28:41
sense. Yeah, so yeah, I mean that's that's kind
28:44
of an interesting dynamic. But yeah, so uh Well,
28:48
it's interesting with the disciples too because
28:49
they were called disciples, right? So it's like
28:53
they weren't even called like, uh I mean, I don't
28:55
know what you call them Yeah, I mean they never
28:58
as far as like a rabbi trainee, right? Yeah.
29:01
Oh, that's true. Yeah, but I don't know if yeah,
29:04
I mean that is the language It's like disciples
29:07
of a rabbi. Because it was different from the
29:09
normal tradition that a rabbi would be going
29:12
through. Sure. It's like you're learning a different
29:14
tradition, so it would be something different.
29:17
Yeah. Yeah, and I guess I never thought about
29:19
that. Like, we don't really call our pastors
29:22
rabbis. Right. But we call each other disciples.
29:27
Yeah. So we're kind of using the terminology.
29:30
That same language. Yeah. But not fully playing
29:32
it out. Yeah. So is Paul X communicated? I don't
29:39
know. That's a good question. Well, because going
29:41
back to the idea that at some point, Saul becomes
29:45
Paul. Yeah. But nobody ever gives him the name
29:48
Paul. Yeah. So how does he go from Saul to Paul?
29:52
So my understanding, from what I've been reading,
29:55
is he has two names. OK. He has his... his roman
30:00
name okay and he has his jewish name or his hebrew
30:03
name yeah um so sol being his hebrew name because
30:06
that's it that's the thing about it where um
30:09
whenever his ministry starts is it axe 12 or
30:12
axe 13 somewhere in that area yeah um where he's
30:17
going from different cities and like oh then
30:18
he went to this one then he went to that one
30:20
yeah um and he went to cyprus and then the next
30:23
one it says sol and i can't remember who went
30:26
with him went to cyprus then the next one is
30:28
like Paul and Barnabas go to uh the next place
30:31
yeah just switches his name yeah and there's
30:34
no explanation for why but what's interesting
30:36
is and this is my my theory and i could be wrong
30:39
okay is that it depends on who he was talking
30:42
to and where he was going okay so for him to
30:45
be all things to all people is let me use a name
30:47
that's more familiar comfortable with these people
30:50
that makes sense before when his beginning of
30:52
his ministry he focused heavily on the jewish
30:56
people yeah And then he switched to, let me work
30:58
on the common people, like the Gentiles. Let
31:01
me say it that way. Not the common people, the
31:04
Gentiles. I mean, I feel like they saw it that
31:07
way. Yeah. The common folk. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:11
Yeah, and that makes sense. So basically what
31:12
you're saying is it would be the same now as
31:16
if somebody was, their name had a different pronunciation
31:22
in Spanish versus English. Right. So like if
31:27
you were hanging out with Spanish people, they
31:29
would pronounce your name different. You could
31:32
call me Pablo if I was in Mexico. Right. Yeah.
31:35
So it's a name change based off of language.
31:38
Yeah. So in some ways, Paul and Saul, that's
31:41
why they sound the same. Yeah. It's like the
31:44
Roman version of it. It's just weird that it's
31:47
a one -letter change. Yeah, right? Because like,
31:50
yeah, like Simon to Peter, I always think about
31:53
that. But then he's often called Simon Peter.
31:55
Yeah, true. And so it's like those two things
31:57
together. So it is interesting. So Saul then
31:59
is his Jewish name. Yes. And then Paul would
32:03
be his Roman name. Yeah. So the state, the Roman
32:07
state, or like our U .S. government. Because,
32:11
spoiler alert, we live in America. What? If you
32:17
can't tell by our accents. It's like the, our,
32:23
your legal name. By the state, his legal name
32:27
would have been Paul. But in the synagogue, he
32:30
would have been known as Saul. They would call
32:31
him Saul. So that makes sense why Peter would
32:33
say, what, Saul also known as Paul? Because of
32:38
who he's talking to. Yeah, it's kind of like,
32:41
I see it with some Hispanics as well, but typically
32:44
a lot of people from Asian countries, like China's
32:48
a big one, where they'll have their American
32:50
name, and then they'll have their Chinese name.
32:53
And that makes sense because the alphabets are
32:54
completely different and yeah, and we can't pronounce
32:57
half of them, right? yeah, but I thought it was
32:59
funny because because Yeah, like in that idea.
33:03
It's like kind of like maybe his name was Saul
33:06
and Then because the Jewish people didn't like
33:09
what he was doing anymore. He had a rebrand.
33:11
Yeah Or he got excommunicated from the Jewish
33:15
Church and he had to go by Paul. Yeah Yeah, he
33:19
had to just go by his government name I wanna
33:22
know if there's some research we can do on that.
33:24
That's kind of an interesting one. But I think
33:25
the easiest explanation is that it was a language
33:29
change. But it is weird that in a lot of different
33:34
places we see names changing, which then brings
33:40
up the point of why. I feel like... In joke writing
33:49
or in comedy, there's a concept of economy of
33:53
words. And I feel like the Bible is very much
33:55
that way. That there's an economy of words. That
33:58
every word is important. And there are things
34:02
that aren't in there because it doesn't need
34:06
to be that dense. It can be stated in a simple,
34:10
in the most simple way. Which is why it's so
34:14
in -depth and mysterious. One line can mean the
34:18
simplest thing. Yeah, and so much. Yeah, that's
34:22
very true And so I feel like the Bible uses economy
34:24
of words so it's weird then that we have this
34:27
this repetition of Some people have different
34:30
names. It's like why would that even show up?
34:33
Like why would that be important? Yeah, it makes
34:35
you think of like Like what is the importance
34:38
of the names and why do they keep using them
34:40
in different ways? And how does that all interact?
34:43
It's kind of fascinating and I think Okay, so
34:46
I have something to share with you. Okay, now
34:48
when you say this this might blow your mind if
34:50
you don't know this Okay, I didn't know this
34:52
until recently. Okay, it absolutely blew my mind
34:55
blow my mind. Oh, man It's so good. I got so
34:58
many cool things to share. Okay, so When it comes
35:03
to names because when we look through scripture,
35:06
okay God changes people's names and you brought
35:10
up Simon and Peter Simon Peter. Yeah, and it's
35:12
like Jesus actually was like, yeah, this is your
35:15
name now. We see that with Abraham or Sarah or
35:20
Jacob and Israel. It's like all these things,
35:22
it's like these are very significant changes.
35:27
And it's funny because it typically indicates
35:29
what that person is supposed to do. So like,
35:32
I think I have it written down actually. So.
35:35
And a lot of times it's reminiscent of the name
35:38
previous. Yes. And it's almost like, and sometimes
35:41
it is that like Abraham, for example, uh, Abraham
35:45
and Sarai. Yeah. Yeah. They, they were from a
35:50
different place. Right. And then God calls them
35:52
out and then they become the father of the faith.
35:56
Yes. And as they become the father of the faith,
36:00
I believe that they, they aren't speaking like
36:04
their native language wasn't Hebrew. Right. So
36:08
they would have Because he was out of Mesopotamia.
36:11
Right. So they would have come into a new language.
36:14
Yeah. So when their name is changing, is God
36:16
revealing to them a new language? That's an interesting
36:19
question. Or bringing them into a space where
36:24
a new language exists, therefore their names
36:26
have to change into that new alphabet? Yeah.
36:29
You know what I mean? Yeah. It's kind of like
36:31
that's his way of calling them into this new
36:33
thing as well. Right. So it makes sense like
36:34
this is a huge change for people yeah so like
36:37
abram um for example his name originally meant
36:40
exalted father okay and then god changes it to
36:43
abraham which means father of a multitude oh
36:47
that's cool and it's like that's actually pretty
36:49
significant too it is um yeah or jacob and israel
36:53
we know that israel means He who wrestles with
36:56
God. Yeah. And it's like, that's cool, especially
36:59
because that's actually what he did. Yeah. And
37:01
then we look at the entire history of Israel.
37:03
They've done nothing but wrestle with God. Yeah,
37:05
even now. Yeah, even now. Yeah. And it's like
37:08
it's quite it's quite significant. And so that
37:11
got me thinking. OK. I was like, OK, so we talk
37:17
about the the first 10 generations from. Adam
37:22
to Noah. Okay. Okay, and it's like that's a there's
37:24
a significant amount of things that happened
37:26
I was like we talked about the first ten we talked
37:28
about all the time Okay, well we have we've brought
37:32
them up in the past. Yeah. Yeah And on one hand,
37:34
it's like genealogies are so boring But yeah,
37:37
we've we've talked about this on like why it's
37:40
important as far as the bloodlines go Oh, yeah,
37:43
but then also it's like well, what about their
37:46
names? Right cuz it's like we don't see Adam
37:48
jr. Sure. It's like So, like, why don't we see
37:52
that? Especially since people like to name their
37:54
kids after themselves. I know. And they still
37:57
kind of do that. They still kind of do that.
38:00
But that is an interesting thing, though, because
38:02
you're like, okay, if there's an economy of words,
38:04
then a lot of times we just push through it and
38:09
don't read the genealogies. But if we would pay
38:12
attention, it feels like you're about to unload
38:15
why we should pay attention. Yeah. Because it
38:18
seems like if there's an economy of words in
38:20
the Bible, then the genealogies might actually
38:23
say something that's more plain Yes, absolutely
38:26
then just names we can't pronounce Yeah, you
38:29
know I mean like if we could if we could so what
38:32
would it look like if we took all of the names
38:35
in the genealogies and Wrote out what they meant
38:38
and how that interacted. Yeah, so check this.
38:40
Okay? Are you familiar with this at all? I mean
38:47
I don't think you know what I'm going to say,
38:49
but you might. I hope not. I want you to blow
38:51
my mind. I want your mind to be blown. I'm so
38:53
excited. I hope I don't know. OK, so I'm going
38:56
to first just talk through who the people in
38:59
this list are and what their names mean. OK.
39:01
So we start with Adam, and his means man. Very
39:04
simple. Yeah. Wait, stop on that for a second,
39:07
though. I knew you were going to do that. Not
39:12
for too long, but just let it soak in. Because
39:16
I don't want to talk about it too fast, the same
39:19
way that people would just read through genealogies.
39:21
Okay, yeah, yeah. So what that means is, when
39:25
you say someone's name, so your name is Paul,
39:29
and that means humble. Like a humble, the humble
39:33
one. The humble one, I like that. So in some
39:38
ways, when I say Paul, It's synonymous to me
39:43
saying the humble one. No, that's true. So like
39:46
I could just say, hey, do you know the humble
39:49
one? Yeah. And that I would be saying, do you
39:52
know Paul? Yeah. And I feel like maybe that's
39:55
what it is, is like we miss the fact that there
39:58
is meaning in names. True. But we miss the fact
40:01
that sometimes, especially in ancient texts.
40:05
Yeah. Or even in like honestly, even in new fiction.
40:10
like so from one extreme to another you have
40:13
this like people are intentionally picking names
40:17
yeah because they mean certain things yeah so
40:20
like okay so adam i'm gonna go on a slight tangent
40:24
go ahead of my original point i love it on your
40:27
tangent okay and so there is a study that was
40:30
done okay a little bit ago um how little bit
40:34
I don't know the date, so before today. Okay,
40:38
deal. And what they did is they took children
40:42
nine and ten years old. Okay. And adults. And
40:45
they put them in the room, they showed them,
40:47
and they asked them to match names to faces.
40:49
Oh, okay. And everybody, the children and the
40:53
adults, all pretty much got almost everything
40:57
right. Wow. Like way above the chance level.
41:00
Okay. like they can recognize these patterns.
41:04
And they were showing names and faces of adults.
41:07
And then what they did was they did the same
41:09
test, but with children's faces. And they scored
41:12
horribly low. So it was kind of interesting.
41:15
So they were like, people are able to identify
41:18
names and faces. They can put them together.
41:20
If you meet someone like, oh, you look like a
41:23
Steven. Or you look like a Thomas. And it's like,
41:25
that's kind of interesting. So it's like, why
41:27
is that? Well, the other thing they did, because
41:29
they put the results of that study in that study
41:31
through a machine learning. And the machine also
41:35
discovered that people with the same name tend
41:39
to look more alike than people with different
41:41
names. Oh, weird. And so the results from that
41:45
kind of suggest that there's some kind of biological
41:48
programming or some kind of social engineering
41:52
that actually adjusts our appearance to match
41:56
our names. Okay, because I was just about to
41:59
ask that question. When you look at children,
41:59
it's like they don't share that. And children
42:01
that have the same names don't look alike. But
42:04
over time they develop and their faces like adjust
42:06
to match. The name itself. The name itself. So
42:09
it's almost like the name exists in space and
42:14
it has a DNA to it. Yes. And as you age you move
42:18
towards that DNA. Isn't that crazy? That is pretty
42:21
crazy. It makes sense though, but it it does
42:24
make sense. I mean, it's also it's also on a
42:26
basic level It's like every time you say someone's
42:29
name like you're speaking something over that
42:30
person, right? Like for me. Yeah, like oh, you're
42:33
the humble you're the you're the the the royal
42:35
one. Yeah The crowned one. Yes, it's like every
42:39
time your name is spoken There's whether it's
42:42
known or unknown like there's a piece of that
42:43
that is getting spoken over you Yeah, that's
42:46
a good point. Yeah. Yeah, so like without knowing
42:49
it All my life I've been called the crown one.
42:52
Yeah So like it just kind of seeps in Yeah, the
42:56
meaning of it without me even really thinking
42:58
about it consciously. There's a subconscious
43:00
level to it. Yeah, that's interesting Yeah, well
43:03
that makes sense why your dad sat you down when
43:05
you guys were 10. He's like listen up. Yeah,
43:08
I want you to know what you're feeling Yeah,
43:11
that makes sense though. I mean it is cool. It's
43:14
cool. So Adam means so yes, so Adam means man.
43:18
Okay, which Yeah, if he's the... I don't want
43:24
to use a platonic name. If he's the first man,
43:30
then the first man, his name being Man... Kind
43:36
of makes sense. It's also a little bit derivative.
43:39
It's a little on the nose, right? I guess not
43:42
derivative because he's the first one. There's
43:46
no one to compare it to. It's really just like...
43:49
man You know what I mean? Well, and in some ways
43:56
it's Like when God creates in the Bible. Yeah,
44:00
he speaks it into existence, right? So he says
44:03
man and that's Adam. Yeah, you know what I mean?
44:06
Yeah, like it's almost like it's almost like
44:08
because Adam's name is man We just understand
44:12
that God created man. Yeah true and man's name
44:15
is Adam. Yeah But Adam means man So man's name
44:22
is man Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, it's almost
44:26
a species title. It kind of is. Yeah, it's a
44:29
hierarchy in that. Yeah But then that that breaks
44:32
down because me as he has kids with their names
44:34
Yeah, it doesn't break down. I won't break it
44:36
down that far. I just I feel like we need to
44:38
set it up. It's kind of cool. Yeah And then so
44:42
Adam has a son Seth Okay, but not first not first
44:47
not a second. Okay, we don't actually know when
44:49
but probably Maybe well, we do know how old he
44:52
was we do. Yeah. Yeah, he was He's old. He's
44:57
like 130. I think yeah, he was an old fella.
44:59
Yeah So we don't actually know the most interesting
45:04
thing to me about that is Did he age in the garden?
45:10
or did he fully come to age? That's a whole other
45:12
topic. I know. Cause then you gotta bring up
45:14
tree of life. I know, well that's where you'd
45:16
have to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we kind of
45:18
know, like the next time marker for him is 130.
45:22
Right. I think it's 130. And it's based on when
45:26
Seth is born. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah.
45:29
I know we got some interesting markers with that,
45:31
yeah. Yeah, but yeah tree of life, I mean it
45:34
must have been. All right, no more rabbit trails.
45:36
Let's keep going through the genealogies. So
45:38
I'll start it over so we don't miss it, because
45:40
it's a through line here. So Adam means man.
45:45
His son Seth. His name means appointed. And then
45:49
Seth has a son Enosh. And Enosh means mortal,
45:53
frail, or miserable, from the root enosh, to
45:57
be incurable. And then we have his son Kenan,
46:00
which means sorrow or dirge. and then his son,
46:04
Mahalalel, means blessed God, from Mahalal for
46:08
blessed and El for God. And then he has a son,
46:12
Jared, which means shall come down. And then
46:16
his son, Enoch, means commencement or teaching.
46:20
And then Enoch's son, Methuselah, means his death
46:23
shall bring, from Muth for death, Shalach for
46:28
bring or send forth. And then Methuselah, he
46:31
has a son, Lamech, which means despairing, similar
46:35
to our word for lament or lamentation. And then
46:38
lambic son Noah means comfort or rest. Now, in
46:43
order. Now this genealogy, yeah, because I want
46:45
you to read it, how it says it. Which, yeah,
46:48
I'm about to. I see what you're about to do and
46:49
that's really cool. You see what's gonna happen?
46:51
But real quick, those genealogies are Genesis
46:54
5. Yeah, this is Genesis 5 .28 through 6 .7.
47:00
And then Matthew 1. Yeah. So these are the genealogies
47:06
leading up to Jesus. Correct. Going all the way
47:08
back to Adam and then to God. Yep. So you're
47:14
like, well, what about Cain and Abel? Not super
47:17
important right now? They don't matter. They're
47:19
actually a different episode because there's
47:21
a reset here in Genesis 5 that resets what the
47:26
genealogy is, which is why the bloodline is important.
47:29
Yeah. Tell us their names, but tell the story
47:34
that their names tell. So their names in order,
47:37
and the only thing I added here was... And this
47:39
is one through ten. Yes. This is the first ten
47:41
generations from Adam. These are just the meanings
47:43
of their names. Yeah. The only thing I did was
47:45
add some articles in here to make it easier to
47:48
read. Yeah. So you're basically taking the what
47:52
their names mean into a paragraph. Yes. Only
47:56
the meanings of their names. Right. So this paragraph
47:58
that Paul's about to say... just the meanings
48:01
of their names back to back to back from Adam
48:05
to Noah to Noah through the line of Seth not
48:09
through Cain and Abel correct because you can't
48:12
get to Noah through okay so this put together
48:20
okay says man is appointed mortal sorrow but
48:25
the blessed God shall come down teaching that
48:28
his death shall bring the despairing rest. Say
48:33
that one more time. Isn't that crazy? That's
48:35
so crazy. Man is appointed mortal sorrow, but
48:39
the blessed God shall come down teaching that
48:42
his death shall bring the despairing rest. That's
48:47
crazy. Doesn't that give you tingles? Yeah. It
48:49
gives me the like little chills when I hear it.
48:52
So what we're saying is that in Genesis 5. Yeah.
48:56
we are given a gospel message. Through the names.
49:00
Yes. Of the first 10 generations. Yeah. From
49:06
Adam, through Seth, to Noah. Yeah. That's crazy.
49:12
Isn't that wild? Especially because Noah is the
49:15
reset. Yes. And I think, so going back to this
49:19
as well, this is the fun like little... even
49:21
further in where it's like there's so much depth
49:23
to this because not only do we have a gospel
49:26
message through their names so it's like their
49:27
names and what they were named is so important
49:29
right it's like that's almost divine in and of
49:32
itself yeah but even on top of that what they
49:34
did in their life reflected their own name Enoch
49:38
is a big one Enoch's whole thing was let me re
49:41
-teach knowledge yeah Noah's thing was let me
49:43
bring rest to the to the bloodline here yeah
49:46
like let me reset everything Yeah, so you actually
49:51
get this whole, like, you get this whole speaking
49:55
of who Jesus will be. Yeah. But also a fulfillment
49:58
in their names. Yes. In real time. It's crazy.
50:03
So it's not just prophetic to what will come
50:06
ultimately, but it's prophetic to what God's
50:08
already doing through that specific generation.
50:10
Yes. So by the time you get to Noah, you find
50:14
that that is where there will be rest again and
50:18
peace. Yeah, yeah. um wow that's crazy is that
50:21
amazing it is very cool that was like a new discovery
50:24
for like this is incredible like i've never heard
50:27
this before yeah and the thing is like you're
50:29
not you're not reading into anything it's what
50:33
was intended to be understood yeah yeah so like
50:36
that's the thing is like everybody's name means
50:38
something it's the reason why like they keep
50:40
bringing it up yeah true like you keep bringing
50:43
it up and you're like all right cool uh jacob
50:47
decides to just stay all night and wrestle with
50:49
the angel of the Lord. And then he makes it a
50:52
point to go, oh yeah, well now your name's Israel.
50:55
And it's like, well why was that in there at
50:58
all? Why does it matter to us that Jacob's name
51:01
is now Israel? What does it mean? In the beginning,
51:03
why was his name Jacob? Sure. And it was because
51:06
his dad... when he was born, saw that he was
51:09
grabbing onto Esau's heel. And it's like, oh,
51:12
he's grabbing onto his heel, so his name's Jacob.
51:14
It's like, that's what Jacob means? Even Esau,
51:18
he was the hairy one. It's like, we're told right
51:22
there the importance of names. Where it's like,
51:24
what they did when they were born, or what they
51:26
looked like when they were born, determined what
51:28
their name was. And so it's funny, because even
51:30
now, I feel like we're a little flippant with
51:32
names sometimes. And we miss... this important
51:37
thing, that it's like what you call your children,
51:42
or your friends, or even them, it's like that's
51:45
speaking into them what their life could be,
51:49
or what you're expecting from them. And so you
51:52
see Jacob, going back to him, it's like before
51:55
his name is changed, he's always on the heels
51:57
of Esau. just trying to undermine the things
52:00
by stealing his birthright, you know, by, you
52:03
know, whatever he does. I can't think of the
52:04
other one right now. But it's like he's always
52:06
on the heels of Esau. And then he has this encounter
52:10
with God and God says, now your name is different.
52:13
Now this is what you're going to do. Yeah. Yeah.
52:18
That's yeah. I mean, it's crazy because there's
52:20
so many things. There's so many things like that
52:23
where it's like, if you I think here's the tough
52:26
thing. We always need it. everybody to spell
52:29
stuff out for us. Yes. And so thank you, Paul,
52:33
for spelling it out for us. But I think that
52:36
that's why we get lost in the genealogies is
52:38
because we're going, it's not spelling it out
52:40
for us. It actually is in the most simple form.
52:43
Yeah. There's just a little bit more work to
52:45
actually look into, like, what do these names
52:47
mean and what story is it telling? Which, I mean,
52:50
to be fair, in our culture today, it's like that's
52:53
not something we really consider. Sure. It's
52:56
like when I meet someone, Like I didn't know
52:58
that's what your name meant until right now.
52:59
Oh, yeah, and it's cuz it's not it's not in our
53:01
nature to be like Oh, what's your name? That's
53:03
cool. What does that mean? That's true. It's
53:06
like we don't we don't even think to care about
53:08
that Yeah, and some of that might be like the
53:11
actually just like the English language That's
53:14
true. Like it might be more lost on English speakers
53:17
because like when I hear in translating songs
53:23
to Spanish like when you do that, it's like I've
53:27
talked to people who have translated songs that
53:31
I've worked on, and they're like, well, it kind
53:34
of means, and they're trying to paint a picture
53:36
for you, and you're like, okay, that has so much
53:39
more life and feeling to it, and English is just
53:42
so flat. So I feel like that's actually, maybe
53:46
that's pushing into the root of a big issue with
53:51
the American church, or the Western church, is
53:55
the flattening and the, the non -importance of
53:58
language. Because everything is so flattened
54:01
and simplified. Well, even like our very colorful
54:03
words that we do have in English, we don't use
54:05
them. What do you mean by that? I'm trying to
54:09
think of like a good example right now. Well,
54:11
I guess generation to generation also, like that's
54:14
what - We'll see like a simplification of language.
54:16
Let me say it that way. It's like the words we
54:18
use are much more simplified in their meaning
54:20
than some of the words that are actually available
54:22
to us. Yeah. Yeah, so like you, like a word that
54:29
would express, like if I were trying to paint
54:32
a picture for you, I'd have to use way more words
54:35
in English, because all of that stuff is simplified.
54:40
If I could just say, it's like this, and all
54:44
of a sudden you get this big image of something,
54:46
and all I did was reference one thing, you know
54:49
what I mean? I mean, I guess we do that with
54:51
proper nouns, like I guess we could do that with
54:54
like, Well, it's like Disney World. And you go
54:57
like, okay, there's a feeling to that. But like,
55:01
you know, I guess that like, I don't know, that
55:04
doesn't really play out as much. But I like the
55:07
meaning, if I called my kid Disney, like if my
55:13
kid's first name was Disney, that would create
55:18
a response from a lot of people of magic and
55:23
joy. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Which.
55:26
That's true. Yeah. So like if their name was
55:29
Disney. But it also admits that whole thing of
55:31
like going back to what we initially talked about,
55:34
which was Stephen and Paul. Yeah. It's like in
55:37
the context of the Bible, all of a sudden those
55:41
names mean something completely different. Yeah.
55:43
And so there's like a whole storyline behind
55:45
it. But yeah, it's like. I think that's what's
55:49
cool even. kind of beaten a dead horse a little
55:51
bit here, but it's like even looking at Stephen
55:53
and Paul's life in their ministry, it's like,
55:57
well, what was Stephen, what was his face doing
55:59
before he was stoned? It's like, oh, his face
56:02
was shining because of the wisdom that he was
56:04
speaking from the Lord, from the Holy Spirit.
56:07
And it's like he was exalted in that way. of
56:10
like his righteousness was showing. His glory
56:13
was showing. You know what I mean? Stephen, watch
56:15
out. Your righteousness is showing. Stephen,
56:17
cover that up. You know what I mean? It's like
56:21
he was brought up to this exalted place because
56:24
of his faithfulness to the Lord. And then Paul
56:27
was great inside of the ministry he was in. And
56:31
then he was humble. But he made himself humble
56:33
and he was also humbled. And he was brought low
56:36
to another place. And then he worked to keep
56:39
himself there. And it's like, that's actually
56:41
really cool. It is because there's so much to
56:44
that that ties in. It's like you're reading into
56:46
it. It's like, no, actually, we're trying to
56:48
breathe life back into it. Exactly. Yeah. And
56:51
like, that's the thing is like the English Bible
56:53
is it's just so flat a lot of times. And honestly,
56:57
I think that's why we get bored of it sometimes.
56:59
Yeah, I think so, too, because it is that whole
57:02
thing of like, well, just whatever it says directly
57:04
on the surface is what it means. It's like that's
57:07
true. The Bible. is fascinating. And if you just
57:12
read exactly what it says in flat English, it's
57:15
like there's a ton of crazy stuff. There's a
57:18
ton of really interesting things. And then there's
57:21
also life through who Jesus is and what he did
57:24
for us. But if we look back into the original
57:27
language, we look into the pictures painted through
57:29
the words, we look at it and go, OK, this economy
57:33
of words as everything is laid out perfectly
57:36
in this text. You can see how it all interplays
57:40
and how one thing plays on the other, and it
57:43
speaks to what is to come as well as what just
57:45
happened. It all interlocks. That's why even
57:49
if you read Genesis in Hebrew, all the words
57:53
kind of play off of each other. So there's a
57:56
big thing in Hebrew where an opposite word has
58:04
characters of the other word in it. So it sounds
58:09
like it's an opposite of the word that comes
58:12
before it. So there's this interplay of the Hebrew
58:15
language that has this movement to it where it's
58:18
like this thing is the opposite and it mirrors
58:22
it in this interesting way. So these words that
58:25
are opposites kind of sound similar but backwards.
58:28
And there's this movement that happens as you
58:30
read Hebrew that paints this picture that like
58:34
when we just read like in the beginning was the
58:36
word. It's like, well, if I say it, if James
58:39
Earl Jones says it, it sounds really cool. Now
58:41
it's amazing. Yeah. But if I just say, in the
58:44
beginning was the word. You're like, oh boy.
58:47
Yeah, it's like, what are we about to? What's
58:49
for the potluck after church? Yeah, so it's like,
58:54
I don't know. There is all this stuff in it.
58:56
But I think one of the things that I love about
58:59
this concept is that simple idea, even from that
59:04
study of going like, When you say someone's name,
59:07
you're actually speaking something over them.
59:09
Yeah. And it might actually help you to know
59:14
what your name means. I think it's true. Yeah.
59:18
And change it if you should. Everyone just go
59:26
to the courthouse, get your name changed, something
59:28
cool. You actually can do that. Everyone's just
59:31
going to pick Steven. Well, if they're smart,
59:35
they'll pick Paul. Let's go. Yeah, if they're
59:39
humble. They're going to be the exalted one.
59:41
I'm going to change my name right after this.
59:44
You can't give yourself the name Steven. It has
59:46
to be given to you. Are you putting a gatekeeping
59:50
Steven now? Just gaslighting everybody. It's
59:55
Dolan Valor if it's chosen. But did you ever
59:58
have friends? I had a friend growing up who was
1:00:00
a good childhood friend. I think after he turned
1:00:04
18, his parents always called him by his middle
1:00:08
name. And then when he turned 18, he swapped
1:00:11
it, and he made everybody call him what his first
1:00:14
name was. Oh, okay. Yeah, I know people like
1:00:17
that. You do? Mm -hmm. And I was always like,
1:00:20
why are you putting this on me? It's a lot for
1:00:24
me to work with. For him, it was an intentional
1:00:27
life switch. Yeah. being a different person.
1:00:32
And he was like, I think I need to go buy a different
1:00:34
name. And there is something in that. You know,
1:00:37
it's interesting you say that, bringing it back
1:00:39
to the Bible too, for that example is like, we
1:00:42
look at Sarai and Sarah, her name change. The
1:00:46
meaning of her name is actually the same. I believe
1:00:48
it means princess. And it's the same, both spellings
1:00:52
or both versions of that name. But I think what's
1:00:56
important about it is this was a new chapter
1:00:58
in her life that was the Lord had spoken into.
1:01:01
And it's like, even though your name means the
1:01:03
same thing, you still have the same calling,
1:01:05
we're gonna turn the page. You're onto a new
1:01:08
chapter now. And I think that's kind of the same
1:01:10
thing you're getting at here. His name was always
1:01:15
that. But it was just like, now I want to be
1:01:17
called that, because I want to open up this new
1:01:20
chapter of my life. And I want to enter it with
1:01:23
this calling. So what's your middle name again?
1:01:26
Franklin Thomas and actually I don't know what
1:01:29
Franklin means actually I Used to know that do
1:01:32
you know what Thomas means it means twin. Oh
1:01:35
interesting. Yeah, it doesn't mean doubting one
1:01:42
Which is funny my younger brother his his name
1:01:47
is Thomas yeah Yeah, but I mean, I think that
1:01:54
that plays out. I think it's also a clue to pay
1:01:56
attention to. Like, I'm not a huge fan of like,
1:02:00
so speaking to this just for a second, like the
1:02:04
Bible is full of a bunch of clues to things.
1:02:09
But sometimes it's not a clue to the thing you
1:02:11
think it is. And and I think what happens is
1:02:17
like I think you can get really caught up in
1:02:19
peripheral things I think that's one of the things
1:02:21
even talking about this. It's like maybe Maybe
1:02:25
the Bible is not like the Bible is not necessarily
1:02:29
trying to to say something subconsciously Through
1:02:35
what every word means yeah, but in some ways
1:02:40
it's that makes the story rich. So like in this
1:02:43
instance that makes that story rich and it also
1:02:46
ties in what has kind of happened which is an
1:02:51
abandonment of the Old Testament in modern evangelical
1:02:54
churches because of avoiding or not doing the
1:02:59
study or finding the richness of things like
1:03:01
this. Where it's like how about just like look
1:03:04
at what their names mean. and how that testifies
1:03:07
of who Jesus will be. You know what I mean? Or
1:03:10
maybe it opens up this richness in Genesis 5
1:03:14
of God's redemptive story already happening.
1:03:18
And you kind of go like, well, that must be important.
1:03:21
Yeah. That must be significant. If it speaks,
1:03:25
especially if it testifies of who Jesus will
1:03:26
be. And so like as you look through all of those
1:03:29
things, but then then you have like this whole
1:03:31
numerology. You have all these things that can
1:03:34
happen because the Hebrew language also doubles
1:03:38
as their numeric system. There's a lot of math
1:03:40
involved in the linguistics of it. There is and
1:03:44
there isn't. It's like the idea of the cherubim
1:03:52
in Ezekiel where they have four faces and when
1:03:56
they move it's like they're not moving in any
1:04:00
direction because they're And it's like, what
1:04:03
he's describing is actually kind of simple. It's
1:04:07
the fact that they can see in all directions.
1:04:11
That's all he's describing. He's using very fantastic
1:04:14
language to say that. Yeah, it's like, how do
1:04:16
I describe that there's a being that when they
1:04:20
move, they can see in all directions at once?
1:04:23
That they have four faces. That doesn't mean
1:04:26
that they don't literally have four faces. Because
1:04:28
they could literally have that. It does mean
1:04:31
that like he's trying to express something that
1:04:35
is actually kind of simple. Yeah, like they they
1:04:39
very well could have had four faces. They very
1:04:42
well could have currently four faces. And again,
1:04:48
that's probably a completely different episode
1:04:50
of like looking into another dimensional space
1:04:52
or another, you know, another yeah, another layer
1:04:56
or into the spiritual. Not being able to perceive
1:05:01
it the way it's it's actually yeah like watching
1:05:05
it's like And most likely Ezekiel is basically
1:05:08
just he's looking at he's watching a 3d movie
1:05:11
without 3d glasses Yeah, so he's like this is
1:05:14
my eyes can't really comprehend what's happening.
1:05:17
It's hard to focus on this Yeah, yeah, and so
1:05:19
what he's seeing Looks like you know like there
1:05:24
are those things that they're offset, and then
1:05:27
if you spin them really fast, they create an
1:05:30
image. It's like he's seeing it not being spun.
1:05:33
And it's like disorienting. And so this is what
1:05:37
it is, but it's actually humming or buzzing at
1:05:40
a certain rate. So if I could see it with the
1:05:44
right eyes, then it would make sense. And it
1:05:47
is a different being, but it's that type of thing.
1:05:50
It's like the language of it and what he's actually
1:05:53
saying. is he's trying to describe something.
1:05:57
And I think that the Bible is trying to, and
1:06:00
the writers of the Old Testament even, are intentionally
1:06:04
writing specific things to tell us something
1:06:09
with an economy of words. They're not trying
1:06:11
to lay everything out for us. It's the reason
1:06:14
why it doesn't say, and then there's Adam. Adam
1:06:18
means man. Yeah, and then Seth and Seth means,
1:06:22
you know, it's like it's not they're not gonna
1:06:24
say this means that because when they're talking
1:06:26
just to the original Listener they already know
1:06:29
what it means. Yeah, they would already have
1:06:31
that understanding Yeah, it's like my oldest
1:06:34
son all the time will be like I already know
1:06:36
that you don't have to tell me that anymore it's
1:06:38
like This is the first time I've told you this.
1:06:40
It's just like he learned a new phrase or something,
1:06:43
but it's like, I get it. Yeah. Yeah. He's like,
1:06:45
I get it. Stop telling me this. And that's like,
1:06:48
that happens a lot in the scripture where it's
1:06:50
like, Oh, I'm just not going to tell you this
1:06:51
because you already know what I'm talking about.
1:06:54
Yeah. And that happens all the way through. And
1:06:56
we see that in the book of Esther. Yeah. This
1:06:58
is already written about in the book of Kings.
1:07:00
So you just go look that up. Yeah. Yeah. And
1:07:02
it happens in Chronicles too. Yeah, that's right
1:07:04
like it happens all the way through where it's
1:07:06
like it's referencing all these other things
1:07:08
Yeah, it's like this is already written down.
1:07:09
Just go read that thing. Yeah, I'll keep moving
1:07:11
on Yeah, but I love that idea though of names
1:07:14
that like what you're like that you grow into
1:07:18
what you're being called Yeah, yeah, and I think
1:07:22
with what you're saying is the wrong message
1:07:26
to take from this is that You're supposed to
1:07:29
do whatever your name means. Yeah, and it's like
1:07:31
that. Oh like that's it done because we see that
1:07:35
again the people that Jesus the people that he
1:07:37
changed names of yeah or that God changed their
1:07:39
name it's like he said no that's not your calling
1:07:42
right this is your calling yeah um and I think
1:07:45
that's the important thing when we do look at
1:07:47
it's like our names are important yeah because
1:07:49
they do influence us they influence how we look
1:07:52
yeah influence how we act yeah um how people
1:07:55
treat us like all those things whether they're
1:07:56
subconscious or conscious um but for us to put
1:08:00
our stake everything that we are into what our
1:08:03
name means and that's what we're supposed to
1:08:04
do. Well, now we're just creating a new zodiac
1:08:07
essentially. And it's like, and that's, that's
1:08:09
not the right message to take out of it. But
1:08:12
I think the right message to take is your name
1:08:14
does mean something and it does impact you. Right.
1:08:17
And we should be aware of what that means and
1:08:19
what we should do about it. Yeah. I mean, take
1:08:22
Israel, for example, Israel means what? To wrestle
1:08:27
with God. To wrestle with God. Yeah. So Israel
1:08:31
could either choose to go, well, that's what
1:08:34
my name means, so that's what I'm gonna continue
1:08:35
to do. Or they could receive the salvation that
1:08:40
comes from Jesus and step into a new reality
1:08:45
and no longer be just Jewish under the law, but
1:08:51
be redeemed from the law and step into being
1:08:56
a Christian or a messianic Jew. And there's new
1:09:01
titles to that. There's new names to that for
1:09:03
a reason. Yeah, and that all lays in perfectly.
1:09:07
Yeah, that's cool. I like that. Because even
1:09:09
when we look at Philip, who was our martyr today,
1:09:10
he was actually the first one to be given the
1:09:12
title of disciple. Yeah, which is cool. And I
1:09:15
think that's really cool because it's like, well,
1:09:16
what is a Christian? It's a Christ follower.
1:09:18
It's a disciple of Christ. So we're stepping
1:09:21
out of Israel into someone who actually follows
1:09:25
Christ. Like that's our new name. Yeah. Yeah,
1:09:29
in some ways Israel's new name was to be Christian.
1:09:34
Yeah And all the Christians out there they're
1:09:37
really loving themselves Yeah, I love that that's
1:09:43
cool, that's cool, I like it so it's fun it was
1:09:46
It's a fun little journey. We went on those it
1:09:48
was hopefully it was simple and you didn't get
1:09:51
lost along the way But I hope it also gets you
1:09:55
excited to read genealogy in a new way. Yeah.
1:09:59
And I think maybe a little bit at a time. Yeah,
1:10:01
because they're still kind of boring. Yeah. I
1:10:03
mean, it's OK. It's OK. Well, I mean, there's
1:10:07
a lot going on there. But I think that's that's
1:10:09
the important thing. And I think is one of the
1:10:11
things that we're doing here is let's let's open
1:10:13
this up a little bit more. It's the economy of
1:10:16
words like some. Everything means something in
1:10:18
the Bible. Yeah. And sometimes there's those
1:10:21
things. I was like, this is so boring. Why did
1:10:23
they put this in here? Right. And instead of
1:10:25
being like, why did they put this in here? We
1:10:27
just go, eh. But I think, and that's a question
1:10:30
that I had going into this is like, let's really
1:10:33
dive into like, why is this here? Yeah. Yeah.
1:10:36
Why is this important? Yeah. Yeah. And I think
1:10:39
it's also like, it's a good way to constantly
1:10:41
be talking about God. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a
1:10:45
simple way to do it. It's like, well, you could
1:10:47
sit in your car, pick up your friend and hang
1:10:50
out on a Friday night and be like, huh, that
1:10:53
new... pair of shoes is cool. You know what I
1:10:56
mean? Yeah. Or you could be like, who's Melchizedek?
1:11:01
Oh, let's go. Which is funny, because it's funny
1:11:10
because to us, that's like the greatest Friday
1:11:12
night. I know. And some other people are like,
1:11:15
oh my gosh. I know. Let's dig into it. That sounds
1:11:18
like the best night ever. Yeah. Yeah. to those
1:11:24
that might listen and be like this is like this
1:11:27
is too much of this is is bad or whatever it's
1:11:32
like anything that ultimately testifies of who
1:11:35
Jesus is is not bad yeah and should push you
1:11:40
in it should push you closer So yeah, I think
1:11:45
that that's, I think this whole thing is really
1:11:47
interesting. And also like, yeah, the genealogies
1:11:50
are a little heavy, but maybe start out and stick
1:11:52
them out a little bit longer than you did last
1:11:55
time. And then maybe just look them up one by
1:11:58
one and then skip them. And then when you come
1:12:00
back to it the next year, then look up a few
1:12:02
more. Because I think that they're all trying
1:12:05
to say something and the names are there for
1:12:08
a couple of reasons really. But one of the things
1:12:11
that they're doing is they're telling a story
1:12:13
by what the people's names actually mean So that's
1:12:18
cool. Yeah, I think yeah The coolest thing about
1:12:20
that is when we look at the Bible makes it so
1:12:22
interesting is that the gospel story the story
1:12:24
that it's ultimately telling Yeah, it's just
1:12:27
embedded everywhere. Yeah Going back to st. Augustine
1:12:30
all truth is God's truth Yeah, and everything
1:12:32
points back to him in the message of why he's
1:12:35
here. Yeah And that's the beauty of the 66 books
1:12:38
of the Bible that we have. Yeah. Everything points
1:12:41
to who he is and what he's done. Right. Yeah.
1:12:44
What he will do. Yeah. So read your genealogies,
1:12:49
kid. That's your homework. Comment below what
1:12:53
your favorite Bible name is. Yeah. And what it
1:12:58
means. Yeah. And then the other thing from Dr.
1:13:02
Michael Heiser. is if it's in the Bible and it's
1:13:05
weird, it's probably important. So good. So if
1:13:08
you are like having a hard time reading a name,
1:13:11
don't be like, who cares about this person? Figure
1:13:14
out what it is. Or like, that's a weird name.
1:13:18
Nimrod? What does that mean? What a Nimrod. What
1:13:22
does that mean? Where does that come from? I
1:13:24
love how you pick up the most interesting, like
1:13:26
one of the most interesting characters. Trying.
1:13:30
This guy. Yeah, so your assignment is Melchizedek
1:13:33
and Nimrod. That'll keep you busy for a while.
1:13:37
Until the next episode. Until the 100th episode,
1:13:42
when we finally tell you what it means. We still
1:13:45
don't know. We'll figure it out, though. I think
1:13:47
we're getting there. I don't know. We're not.
1:13:49
Here we go. Here we go. We'll see you next time
1:13:53
on Martyrs Row. Three, two, one.