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Monday Mini: First Lady Edith Wilson · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to Stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Will Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. Okay, so today
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: we are talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who I'm
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: just gonna go ahead and say was not an ally,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: so I put that out there. But I was really
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: interested in this story. The first time I heard about
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: it was on Drunk History. I had never heard about
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: it before, and it was on my mind after the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: recent election inauguration and watching Nine to five actually pushed
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: it to the top of my mind because nine to
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  Speaker 1: five you've got women who are kind of making all
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  Speaker 1: the decisions while the boss is incapacitated.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So, yeah, we're just going to do a quick history.
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  Speaker 1: But there has been a lot written about this, so
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  Speaker 1: if you want to learn more, you there's plenty of resources,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm going to mention one of them in this today. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about First Lady Edith Wilson, who is sometimes
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: called the first acting woman president. It's really complicated, but
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: it is interesting, so let's get into it. Edith was
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  Speaker 1: born in Virginia in eighteen seventy two. From a young age,
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  Speaker 1: she seemed eager for power. Her paternal grandmother described her
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: as quote bespectacled tyrant ruling from a rocking chair from.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I know that's the title to have.
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  Speaker 1: That is a title to have. But she taught Edith
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  Speaker 1: how to eat and write some French. Even she also
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: taught Edith the lost cosmith, which is essentially the Civil
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: War was something other than enslavement, which is not true,
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  Speaker 1: but she did teach her that. Meanwhile, her hernal grandmother
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: was all about being ladylike and modest, which also comes
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: up in her story a lot. She even claimed. Edith
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  Speaker 1: later claimed she was a direct descendant of the original
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  Speaker 1: colonizers of Virginia and Pocahontas.
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  Speaker 2: So she's saying her ancestors right people. Yeah, okay, sure.
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  Speaker 1: But I think at the time they didn't have that.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, love the head.
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  Speaker 1: No, you're right. But Edith met and married President Woo
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  Speaker 1: Joe Wilson in nineteen fifteen, a second marriage for the
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  Speaker 1: both of them. Edith was a widow and had inherited
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: her husband's DC jewelry shop, and records indicate that she
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: was the first woman in the area to get a
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  Speaker 1: driver's license. So all of these things, the job, the money,
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  Speaker 1: the license, the fact she didn't have kids. Afforded her
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  Speaker 1: a level of independence that a lot of women didn't
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  Speaker 1: have access to at the time, and it was extremely
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  Speaker 1: important her to the point she actually turned down President
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  Speaker 1: Wilson's proposal at first. She was worried about losing her
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  Speaker 1: freedom and being subordinate as First Lady. The President eventually
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: won her over by sharing policy documents, which I'm almost
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: confident was illegal.
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  Speaker 2: But so he's showing national secrets to woo a woman. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: can we just say men are the worst? I could?
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  Speaker 1: Yes?
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  Speaker 2: All right.
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  Speaker 1: So their union did raise some eyebrows at the time
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  Speaker 1: and was somewhat of a political controversy because he married
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: her about six months after the death of his previous wife.
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  Speaker 1: His aides even came up with a plot to keep
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: her away from him. They got engaged somewhat secretly, and
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  Speaker 1: she was much more politically involved than Wilson's previous wife
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  Speaker 1: had been, even trying to sever his relations with those
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: that had attempted to keep them apart. She also did
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: away with a lot of the first Lady duties that
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  Speaker 1: she wasn't interested in using the nineteen seventeen Declaration of War,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: so no more hosting of events like the Easter egg role.
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  Speaker 1: From what I read, she was really into the image
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  Speaker 1: of the American housewife though, which I find interesting because
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  Speaker 1: she canceled a lot of these events, But she was
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: into the image of it, so she wore thrift store clothing.
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  Speaker 1: She sounds like she was very performative, or like she
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  Speaker 1: wanted to project this image that she did believe it.
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  Speaker 1: I think she did believe in it, but she wanted
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: to make sure you did know she believed in.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: It, right. She wanted it for other women, just not herself. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: you need to be subordinate, you need to listen, but
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  Speaker 2: you're not as smart as me.
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  Speaker 1: Right, That's what I think. Yeah. She made sure that
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  Speaker 1: at the White House they observed rationing and doing things
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  Speaker 1: like meatless Mondays and meatless Wednesdays. She knitted, sewed, and
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  Speaker 1: held charitable auctions. She responded to the letters of soldiers,
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  Speaker 1: volunteered named vessels thousands by one source, decoded military messages,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: and gave her husband advice. She was very, very involved
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and just to mention, kind of like I said at
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  Speaker 1: the top, Wilson's presidency is complex. I feel like every
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  Speaker 1: president's legacy is very complex. It was progressive in some ways,
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  Speaker 1: but also pushing racist and sexist policies at the same time,
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  Speaker 1: So I just want to put that out there. Interestingly,
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  Speaker 1: there is speculation that Wilson was so worried people thought
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  Speaker 1: Edith was having undue influence on his policy that he
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  Speaker 1: supported suffrage despite the anti suffrage viewpoints of his wife.
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  Speaker 1: In nineteen nineteen, President Wilson had an incapacitating stroke, in
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  Speaker 1: part from all the stress of World War One. He
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  Speaker 1: also had like a history of health conditions similar and
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: his failure. He was really stressed about his failure to
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  Speaker 1: convince the US to join the UN's precursor, the League
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: of Nations. So after the war he was really like,
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  Speaker 1: we should we should join an organization that's about peace,
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  Speaker 1: And then it failed and he was really stressed and
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: he had a shoke. With the help of some aids,
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  Speaker 1: Edith pretty much lied to the public and press about
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: his condition four months, claiming that he was suffering from
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  Speaker 1: quote nervous exhaustion. This was before a woman could vote.
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  Speaker 1: A reminder. She kept this up for a year and
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  Speaker 1: five months in total. She acted as a gatekeeper. She
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  Speaker 1: restricted who got to see him, and she informed people
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  Speaker 1: when he had decided on important issues. Four months she
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: essentially assumed the role as president. The author of a
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  Speaker 1: biography on Edith called Untold Power, The Fascinating Rise and
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Complex Legacy of First Lady Edith Wilson, Rebecca Box Roberts
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  Speaker 1: has said that, without a doubt, some of the decisions
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  Speaker 1: she made herself, whether because she could not ask him
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  Speaker 1: or chose not to, she most likely approved of cabinet
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  Speaker 1: member appointments and issued vetos. So, as you might imagine,
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  Speaker 1: she was controversial amongst the staff. They, i would say,
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  Speaker 1: very rightfully didn't like that she was keeping them away
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  Speaker 1: from him. And she was almost certainly keeping stuff from
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  Speaker 1: her husband too. We don't know for sure, but she
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: said later that was like about his health. But anyway, anyway,
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  Speaker 1: she was called presidentist, secret president, gatekeeper, extraordinary.
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  Speaker 2: Woof. I mean, she's getting these titles now, like she's
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: receiving these titles she was her. I'm now seeing a
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  Speaker 2: lot of these plots, yeah, must have been based on her,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: like a lot of these like presidential plot movies. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: all right, she for all the bad things she does,
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  Speaker 2: all the laws, she spills, girl doing her thing.
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  Speaker 1: Go ahead, she's again, I want to read this book
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  Speaker 1: because she's such a fascinating like, I don't want any
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  Speaker 1: women to have rights, but I'm be.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Dead, but that will be the one that runs this.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Don't you worry about me?
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  Speaker 1: All right? So we don't know. There's a lot we
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  Speaker 1: don't know about this because we don't know for sure
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  Speaker 1: she kept it sacred if this was being done out
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  Speaker 1: of a desire to chase power or because she didn't
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  Speaker 1: want to upset him Wilson and worse in his condition both.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe she allegedly said that she believed resigning office would
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  Speaker 1: have killed him. It's also likely that she was doing
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  Speaker 1: what he would have done in terms of the decisions,
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  Speaker 1: because she knew him really well. So it's not like
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  Speaker 1: she came into power and did some thing he wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: he wouldn't have done. She claimed she merely chose what
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  Speaker 1: was important enough for her husband to see, and that
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  Speaker 1: she delayed a lot of it until he'd recovered. And
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  Speaker 1: you can't look at all the stuff that happened in
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  Speaker 1: that period and make your own judgment. Also, legally he
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: should have resigned. We're not a legal podcast, We've said
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  Speaker 1: a million times, but legally, technically he should have resigned
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  Speaker 1: and let his vice president take over his duties. Apparently
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: neither Woodrow are liked the vice president. Members of both
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: main political parties urged VP Marshall to assume the presidency,
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  Speaker 1: but he refused, not wanting to set a precedence, which
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: feels so strange now different podcasts.
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  Speaker 2: But I don't know that sounds like Pence a little bit. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. President Wilson died in nineteen twenty four. Edith stayed
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: in Washington and continued to meet with future first ladies.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of people say she really shaped what that
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: position looks like in our modern day. I would we
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: should come back into a deeper dive into that. But
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  Speaker 1: she was very much about being ladylike. She didn't like
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  Speaker 1: one portrait of her because she thought she looked too authoritative,
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  Speaker 1: so she kept the whole thing secret. It's just such
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  Speaker 1: a different The juxtaposition is so fascinating.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, just looks like she knew how to play
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  Speaker 2: the game.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like she knew how to play the game.
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  Speaker 2: And she just needed the It's kind of what we
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  Speaker 2: see in most people. People who are truly powerful know
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: that they do not need to be the face, right,
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  Speaker 2: they just need to pull the strings.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she really did. She really like behind every
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  Speaker 1: great man is a woman. She was like, yep, I.
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  Speaker 2: Am that great wet.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: So that's a really interesting story. I would love to
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  Speaker 1: check out the book again. Clearly she wasn't an ally
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  Speaker 1: so not not saying anything like that, but.
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  Speaker 2: She didn't want any good for anybody else. It was just, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: it was for her. I think she was going to
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  Speaker 2: call the narcissist.
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  Speaker 1: I could see that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know we say that word around a lot,
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  Speaker 2: but like this kind of level of like I know
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  Speaker 2: what's best, yeah myself, No one else should have that
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  Speaker 2: same right.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah that that definitely felt like her whole deal was
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  Speaker 1: that I know what's up, and I'm gonna run this
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  Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna let anyone else interfere. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: if if I've left out anything or got anything incorrect,
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  Speaker 1: I would love to hear from people. And if there's
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: anything that you would like us to expand upon from here,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: please let us know. You can email us at Stepanie
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: Moms Stuff at iheartmania dot com or Hello at Stepa
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Never Told You. You can find us on Blue Sky
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagra and TikTok at
• 12:00
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• 12:02
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• 12:04
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• 12:06
  Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christine, our executive ducer My,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
• 12:12
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