Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 607. The Big We: The Future of Giving is Collective - Hali Lee

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607. The Big We: The Future of Giving is Collective - Hali Lee · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: And this is the we Are For Good podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: So welcome to the good community.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: So let's get started.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Becky, oh my word, rockstar in the house.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Yep, it's happening right now.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know you hang around, we are for good.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: We're all about the power of we and finding humans that share this belief that the power of the collective is so much better than the power of the individual.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: You know, we're going to be kindred spirits.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Today's guest is not just somebody that believes that, like they've been leaning into this and living into this for so many years, that she's bringing her wisdom.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: She's launching a book today on the podcast, and I'm just so excited for you to meet our new friend, holly Lee.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: She's the founding partner at Radiant Strategies, her book the Big we.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: It's hitting bookshelves tomorrow, y'all, so you can put this in your cart ASAP.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: We're going to be talking all about it, but she's the co-founder of the Donors of Color Network, founder of the Asian Women's Giving Circle founder, founding partner of Radiant Strategies, and before this she was named to Forbes 50 over 50, y'all an impact and recognition for her work as a founder of the Donors of Color Network, the first ever national network of wealthy folks of color and a philanthropy together, a national collecting giving support organization.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: We know and love Sarah Lomalin, and so it's honor.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, she's one of our favorite humans.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: We love Sarah.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, s, and so it's honor.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, she's one of our favorite humans.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sending love to the philanthropy together team.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: But today, you know her boutique consulting practice, radiant strategies they just have, you know, some small clients like a fidelity charitable.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: How about the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation and the WK Kellogg foundation?
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: So working really at the intersection of philanthropy and impact and collective giving.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: So she's a frequent speaker.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: She's been in all the places, from the Washington Post to the New York Times and, oh, the we Are For Good podcast today, which is really exciting to see on your list.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: And she lives in Brooklyn where she's a lover of big dogs.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: She keeps rooftop honeybees.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Come on, can we talk about that?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: She's a mom, she's a sister, she's a partner, a cousin and an auntie, and she's now a friend to all of us here.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Holly, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: We're a little excited that you're here.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Oh my God, I'm so excited to be here with two fellow Midwesterners and thank you so much for inviting me out to this amazing podcast and I love the intro.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: It almost made me tear up because I'm a cornball like that.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: But people trying to do good in the nonprofit and philanthropic and social change and social impact sectors and it's a tough time to be doing that, but more important than ever.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, gosh, I'm so glad you're here today and I'm excited to hear your story.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I know we have these like kind of lines that have crossed each other.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: It's amazing it's taken us five years to find you of our.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: We Are For Good journey.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: But would you take us to some formative moments of your story, like what has informed the work that you're doing today?
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: no-transcript City, missouri.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: My brother and I were the only Asian kids in our schools public schools growing up, until Kim Wong came in fifth grade, and we are friends to this day.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: I love it so much.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's one of those things.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: And my parents were part of a Gae, which is a Korean shared saving circle.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: We can talk a little bit about that later, but I grew up around this idea of pulling money and you could use it for whatever you wanted, and I took that idea when I moved to New York and turned it into the Asian Women Giving Circle.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: So that sort of collective spirit that I learned from my mom and dad is kind of one of the ingredients in there.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: I guess that made me today.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: And then I have to mention my grandfather, my maternal grandfather, who I never knew, han Chi-jin, my mother's father.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: He was a freedom fighter when he was young.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: The Korean peninsula was a country and it was under the rule of the Imperial Japanese Army, and he was tortured and imprisoned and nearly killed by that army and then, five short years later, taken away by what became the North Korean Army and never heard from again, leaving my grandma to raise alone six children, the oldest girl of whom was my mom.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: So, though I never knew Han Chi-jin, I've heard about him my whole life and I hope that somewhere in me is one tiny decimal fraction of that fight and the spirit and the belief in fighting for a greater good that he gave his life to.
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: And my grandma died at 97, and she was part of my life for a long time, and I think of her too.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Well, let's just take a hot minute here, to honor yeah Han Qichen.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're all standing on the shoulders of giants in this work, people who were on the front lines, paving the way, making it less rocky for those who come behind.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I just think of what a great legacy that's being carried through your family and the story.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing that.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: I really think it changes the tenor of our conversations when we can see each other and when we can see the lived experience and how it informs.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: And I just think this conversation is so relevant and perfect for the moment that we're standing in not only as a country but as a species, and we have found out we cannot go at this journey alone.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: There is nothing about it, and I feel like impact professionals have known that the whole time.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: That is how we get movements built, that's how we get action building.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: But you have really put your flag in the ground and said you know what Collectivism is the way, and now, right now, is the moment for collective giving.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: You got a book coming out on this, but talk a little bit about your theory of change on this.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: What's your perspective on philanthropy, on how it's evolved over the years?
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, you have some critiques that you lift in your book the Big we and just talk about why this message is so important today, in this moment.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: Another big question, you guys.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: They're coming, get ready.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Another big question.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: You guys, they're coming, Get ready.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: I think that the reason I brought up my Korean background and my grandfather is that I have this thing in my heritage called a kye, and you have it too.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: My Mexican-American friends call them tandas.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: Some people grew up in a Christian faith and they have tithing.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: There's tzedakah and zakakat.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: If you're of Jewish faith or Muslim faith, my Indonesian girlfriends call them Arisan.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: One of the things that was so fun to read and learn about and write in this book is to ask my friends and here in New York there's people from everywhere here how did you grow up?
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: What were the cultures of generosity that you grew up with?
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: And the trick how can we take those things that are in all of our cultures and turn them into philanthropic practice today?
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: And I think that the way that we practice philanthropy in today has we've kind of been in the shadow of the billionaires, you know, for the last 20, 30 years, and I think that the way to dig ourselves out of that, that's the wrong metaphor.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: You know for the last 20, 30 years, and I think that the way to dig ourselves out of that, that's the wrong metaphor to to move ourselves out of that shadow and into more of a sun that is inclusive of more of us at all of us is to reconnect with the cultures that we all come from.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Because if I, if we had more time, John and Becky, I would ask you to describe, like how did your grandma and grandpa and aunties and uncles and great grandmas and great grandpas take care of each other, take care of their kin, take care of their communities and their fellow towns, people?
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: And there's a nugget in there that I think we can use and learn to build forward our philanthropic practice today.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, how you're like connecting this and grounding this in what's been passed down for generations.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Cause I think it's easy to see what's reality today, or maybe what we see today, and forget that there has been generosity that's been compounded and is passed down through generations.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: So how can we tap into that spirit?
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: I'll say, becky and I before I could have put language around this, we knew that the donor pyramid felt broken, that it's like we spend our whole careers trying to get people to climb up this pyramid when you realize the base is where it's at.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: So I would love to hear your take because you just led us into this conversation about how really this billionaire-led top-down model of philanthropy has really shaped, how definitely the culture perceives and the conversations about overhead and effectiveness all those things kind of get muddled.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: How has that changed?
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Even the way that we're measuring impact today?
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And where do you think there's a disconnect?
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Holly, I want to kick it to you.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: So much to say there and the first third of my book which I have right here which.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: I wanted it to be the color of a Thai monk robe and, john, you and I both spent some some time in Thailand.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: It didn't quite get there but it's pretty close.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: So the first third of my book is a critique of billionaire focus, billionaire led philanthropy and and the way I'm describing it.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: It's kind of a natural, logical conclusion from this like myth of American individualism and this myth of American exceptionalism.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: And we love to anoint heroes, we love to find the heroic Louis Coutures when we're talking about money, wealthy people.
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: But we know that the real truth is that the truth of social change is when lots and lots and lots of thousands and millions of people get involved to make social change.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: It's really hardly ever a top-down one-person billionaire type thing.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: So part one is like a pretty thorough critique of that model of philanthropy and what I think is most damaging about it.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: First of all, it's not true Like, if you know Anand Giridharadas and Reich I forgot his first name they wrote really good books that are critiquing that kind of billionaire folk, technocratic, rich guy knows best kind of philanthropy.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: I call that person big Phil in my book.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, John, can you please?
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Design a caricature for this.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: That is hilarious, it was fun to write that first third, and you know I could have written 1000 pages critiquing this kind of philanthropy, but there's lots of things to critique about it which I won't get all into here.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: But the most important critique, I think, is that if we rely on the billionaires to save us which they won't because they're not interested in changing the system that made them so rich in the first place, there are exceptions like Yves Chouinard from Patagonia, my friend Abby Disney.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: There are really beautiful exceptions, but for the most part they're not really changing things to make them more fair.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: But the worst part to me, part of relying on billionaires, is that it inspires a sort of passivity in the rest of us and our system doesn't work unless more of us ideally all of us care enough to get educated, care enough to vote, care enough to lock arms with one another and figure out how to deal with the rats and trees, like on my block in Brooklyn.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: It's all about rats and trees.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: Where you guys live it might be something very different, or it could be a playground or, you know, a corner that needs some sprucing.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Whatever it is Like.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Our system in America doesn't work unless more of us are engaged civically and, in my mind, relying on billionaires in any sphere we're seeing it now in the federal government but relying on billionaires in any sphere we're seeing it now in the federal government but relying on billionaires in the philanthropic sphere doesn't help us engage our citizenry muscles, citizenry muscles, and if ever there was a time when we need to exercise those muscles, it is now.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I could not agree with you more.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: We have a 2025 trend right now called advocacy is non-negotiable, and I know I've brought this up in another podcast, but I got to say it again when we were asking this question to our expert, sixto Cancel, who was diving into why we must be activated into the advocacy process.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: He says you know, if you're feeling a pit in your stomach about this notion of going forward, then that is your answer right now, and I think all of us have a pit in our stomach and we need to lean in to this notion.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: That it's not me going in on it on my own.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: It's about this idea of bringing our community with us and speaking with one voice and sharing the lived experience.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So your book is really highlighting this notion of grassroots collective action.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Talk to us more about these stories and then talk about the ripple of impact that you're seeing.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: I'll tell a story that's not in my book but it's going to be, I think, in an op-ed that's hopefully dropping any minute.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: My mother-in-law is 95 years old and she lives in rural Connecticut and a couple of years ago there was an election for the state House of Representatives I forget what they call it there, but it's that house body and she and some friends were interested in trying to flip that seat from a man who's a Republican to a woman who's a Democrat and my 93-year-old at that time mother-in-law.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: She was like what can one older lady do to have an impact in my state?
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: So she talked with, she met the woman, she met the campaign manager and then my mother-in-law.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: We call her Aka.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Aka said you know I can throw a tea party in my home and invite my neighbors and friends.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I can do that every week this summer.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: She has a beautiful round table that fits about eight.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: So if you allow for a seat for Aka and a seat for Maria, the candidate, that leaves six spots for her friends, neighbors, towns, folks to come over.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: She hosted about 12, she figures every month for the summer.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: She thinks about 75 people came to one of her tea parties.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: Maria won that election.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: There was a recount because it was so close, but she won it by 64 votes and her campaign manager thinks that ACA's tea parties made a material difference in helping Maria win that election.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: So when Becky's, it's really scary to do something alone and things feel so big and things feel so overwhelming and you say bring your community along, I can make it even I could drill it down to even easier than that.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: Like, bring along the people that fit around your kitchen table.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: Like literally think of your kitchen table as a locus of a lot of organizing, because in fact kitchen tables have been the locus of a lot of powerful organizing for women and queer folks and people of color.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: Always, most of us have a kitchen table or a little you know I live in New York or you have a little sitting area that you could fit, you know, four or five or eight people.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Maybe a rooftop with your bees.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Maybe I'll bring you some wine.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: We can have some wine with my bees.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Let's put some honey in the bread.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: You know, like, think about that size.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: You know, because that's an awesome size to get started a giving circle or to get started on figuring out what's happening on your block.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: You know it doesn't have to be this massive thing.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: You know we can all convene our friends and neighbors to talk about things that are important to us and to pull our time, talent, treasure, testimony or ties to do something about it.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Gosh, I have to use an example of your mother-in-law.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I know, at 93 years old.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I saw a sign recently that said what can I do?
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I'm just one person.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: And then it said said 300 million people.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: And it's this notion of if we're all saying, what can I do?
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: If we all choose to make that step forward, that's 300 million steps forward.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: That could be an extraordinary moment.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Can I quote Holly to Holly here.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: So, in kind of the background on your book.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: We love doing this.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: You said this, you said I hope my book offers one way, one vehicle that any of us can do.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Every single one of us is capable of inviting and joining.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Both of those actions presupposes others moving from a solo me to a bigger we.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I mean my goodness like talk about the agency we have and it comes down to that invitation and joining.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And I think Becky and I, you know, talk to a lot of fundraisers by default and there's just always that lingering.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Are we actually making it clear what the gift of activation could be for that person, you know, actually inviting somebody to be part of it with us?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: So what does this stir up for you, as you kind of break this down, and this is kind of the back half of your book, right, getting activated.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Inviting and joining, so, like priests, in order to do that well, we have to listen right, we have to care, we have to be curious.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: I'm not like proselytizing, you know.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: I'm not telling you who to vote for or what to check on the ballot, you know, or anything.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: I just I wanna hear about what you care about.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: John and Becky, if we were neighbors and I'm pretty sure that if we were neighbors we could find something like that Venn diagram of common thing that we care about.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: And so I guess what I'm saying in a way is that each of us who is out there in our workplaces and our PTA, parent associations or book clubs, adult sports leagues, we're all parts of lots of different groups and there's a Venn diagram in each of them.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: And if each of us can think about, like, if we keep kind of thinking about those Venn diagrams of common purpose, common values, common concerns, over time the people that you're Venn diagramming with starts to grow and that's there's a lot of power in there.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: So I guess if I had to sort of distill it, I would say that I see in my world and my friends and my family a lot of fear and overwhelm and peril, like this feeling of sort of paralyzation, paralyzed, being paralyzed, and I feel it too.
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: It's heavy, but the cure for that is community.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: The cure for that is finding people to sit around your kitchen table with or your living room with, having those conversations about shared concerns, shared values, shared dreams and wishes, and then having the courage to do one thing together.
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be a massive thing.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: It can be a small thing like pull neighbors for something, or raise 20 bucks for something, or go to this restaurant that's being started by someone who's a new immigrant to this country.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Go, do that together.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: It can be something.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be like a huge lift, but it starts to build that thing of doing something together that I think we all need to lean into right now.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: That is so good and so practical.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: And I don't care if you have never worked in nonprofit or ever been a volunteer.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: This is something that everyone can do.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: This is something you could do with your kids.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: We're talking about fueling young generosity and getting kids in the habit of being an active part of been because of the technology or because the state of the world, and I think this muscle that you're asking us to activate into, of getting out and connecting, getting out and doing, getting out and serving it, is such a higher calling to self, it's beyond self and that's what we think is the power of community.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: And I cannot help but just see these common threads between us.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: Like we have talked about, we are for goods.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Physical space is in our minds, mom's kitchen table, because we think that's where you can come as you are, you know, in your fuzzy socks and your bathrobe, and pour your heart out and get what you need from that space.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: But you also talk about doing one thing, and we call it the one good thing.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: What is the one good thing that we can activate on today?
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: So I'm loving just how our stories and these belief systems are jiving together, but we want to get activated.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Speaking of activation, we want to get activated.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: So you work with these incredible organizations.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: We mentioned a couple Gates Foundation, kellogg Foundation, so many others and we have people listening within this space who range in organizational size from really small to really really big, but the principles that you are really leading with this conversation are universally applicable.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: So where would you really point listeners to get started today?
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: You mean if they work in a nonprofit or they're a fundraiser?
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I think yes.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: But if you want to take it to a second place and say, if you're just somebody looking to activate in, I mean, take it however you want to.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: This is your podcast.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: We're just here.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: It's your podcast.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: I'm a guest.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: Thanks for inviting me to your kitchen table today.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: It's really fun to talk to you I feel like we could talk for hours and hours.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: So let me go first to the fundraisers and nonprofit folks, because I've been there too.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: I've been a strategy person, I've been a fundraiser at nonprofits, I've been an executive director of a little tiny nonprofit and I have a feeling you have some of those folks amongst your listeners.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: First of all, thank you.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: You are doing God's work.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: You are doing some of the hardest work around and some of the most important work around, and you're not being paid enough or compensated enough for the work that you're doing.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: So firstly, thank you.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: So I got to do this research to build the Donors of Color Network, and to do that research I interviewed 150 wealthy people of color across the country and it was a blast and just what a fun project and moving and inspiring and the idea of legacy was like such a theme.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: And I've had a lot of time to talk with fundraisers about this project, because lots of people at nonprofits want to increase the diversity of their member roles and their donor roles as well, and so what I would say to you and them and what I said then, is take the time to ask people about their lives.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: You know, I know you don't have time to do this with everyone, but pick five people throughout the year, whether it's that volunteer who comes week over week.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Don't make it just the major donors, but the people who are really plugged in and supportive of the mission and vision of your organization.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Take the time to ask them about who are your people and what's your story and how did your family get here and what were the things that you learned growing up and what moves you.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: The interview protocol that we used is available for free.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: It's the appendix of the report.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: I can send it to you.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: It's not in this book, but it's in the report that I wrote for that bill.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: But what I'm saying is like the core importance of building relationships is what we're talking about here, and even I know it doesn't always feel like it, but people who work in fundraising and nonprofits.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: That's really essentially the most important thing you're doing.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: And if you can take a little time throughout the course of your year to try to have a deeper conversation with five or 10 of the people in your community who are core supporters in terms of time and talent and resources, I urge you to do that and if this interview instrument can help get you started thinking about some of the questions you might ask, then please use it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Part two of that is you have to be willing to share a little bit about yourself.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: You know, this divide between the personal and the professional is kind of baloney.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: If we're going to try to build social change together, I just think that wall has to start coming down to the degree that you are able to, given whatever you're dealing with in your life.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: But I just think this it's a false divide and it's a divide that hasn't served us.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: So I think we should start thinking about how to share more personally and relatedly in order to build good hard work together.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: And then, in terms of, like the bigger picture, I'm going to go back to the kitchen table idea, because it's something that we've all got and you guys are riffing on the same theme.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: My tweak to that is please add a leaf or two to invite people to your kitchen table who are a little bit different than you.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: If my group of kitchen table invitees my dinner parties or brunches or stitch and bitch you know I do a stitch and bitch at home with knitters and others who just come for the bitching part One of my friends, christine, actually she's been knitting the same janky little pink scarf for 20 years.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Christine we're just glad you're here, we're just glad you're here christine, I love you.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but why even bother like?
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: she's not coming for the knitting, she's coming for the bitching anyways.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: So and if my group tends to be, you know, moms with young adult kids and we grew up in, you know, new york city I would try to invite people who maybe are not moms or not dads, not parents or people who live a neighborhood over, like, just like a little bit different than who your normals are, your regulars are, because otherwise we can tend to reify.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: You know the echo chamber tribal thing.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: So the way to do that as a person, is just to try to expand your table by a seat or two or add a leaf.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: So I'll add that to the metaphor.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, becky's, making you a friendship bracelet.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure what my modality is, but I feel a kinship of hearing you talk today.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are not just like how we should show up as fundraisers, it's how we show up as like humans that can really weather this.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: The more that we understand each other, the more that we hold space and realize that we are complex human beings that are more than just a title and more than just whatever surface level things.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: It's so good.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: You know we love story here.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: It's very much central to how we talk about change and I'm curious if you would take us into a story that has stuck with you regarding philanthropy.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, we define that really broadly in the sense of it could be generosity and the big Phil, what was his name?
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Your big Phil, big Phil, big Phil.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Or it could be a small moment of just kindness.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: What's a moment of philanthropy that sticks out to you, friend?
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: Gosh, there's so many, but I'm going to pick one from the giving circle.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: So I started the Asian Women Giving Circle with a group of girlfriends in New York City.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: We're turning 20 this coming year, which is wild, and this woman, angie, came to that first meeting hugely pregnant with a baby, and that baby's off to college.
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: So we've been through a lot together, which is amazing.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: So, gosh, more than 10 years ago a group of young activists asked the Giving Circle to write a grant for, I think, $4,000.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: They wanted to crash the party that is the official Lunar New Year parade in Chinatown to celebrate the Lunar New Year, and crash it because they were gay and queer and out and trans and all the fun things, and they were not allowed to march in the official parade at that time because of their gender and sexual orientation.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: So of course we wanted to fund this grant and I think we were the only funder who wasn't a blood relative.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Our $4,000 paid for beer and Oreos and art supplies so they could create puppets and parade paraphernalia and rainbow colors and stuff.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: And the night before the Lunar New Year parade that year it was cold February, beautiful like crisp New York City winter day they got permission to march.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: They were kind of bummed because they wanted to kind of do it illegally, but whatever, they got official permission, we marched with them.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: It was glorious, it was really fun and from that day onwards the Chinatown official Lunar New Year parade has been integrated to include gay and queer and trans folks.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: They beat the Irish in this regard.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: They made history and it was a group of young activists for $4,000 and a group of you know, we don't know what we're doing philanthropists, you know, like giving circle, that gave them the money to be able to do that.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: That night I was cooking dinner with Peter, my husband, for our kids.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: They were smaller, they were small at that time and this was covered on my local NPR station.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: They were in Time Out New York.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: They literally made history.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: So I love this story so much because it just shows what a group of scrappy activists can accomplish.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Giving circle can partner with them in order to make change in our big city of New York.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, that was such a beautiful story and the irony to me is and maybe not irony, I mean, the prophecy of that to me is you have just written this book on the power of collective giving and it's like you started out not knowing what you're doing.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Y'all, that is, all of us coming in with a beginner's mindset on literally everything in life, and if we can just show up and take the first step and, to your point, be vulnerable and authentic and raise our hand and say I don't know what I'm doing, but I know that I believe in this thing, I know that we are all connected on these shared values and I know I want to walk it forward in some way.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Look at you 20 years later.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: You literally wrote the book on this and I just think I also think about what that means for your children to have seen mom rise up in that way and be brave in that way.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: I think about all of those people who marched who didn't feel seen.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: They felt seen by you, they felt a sense of belonging and support and how much that has rippled.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Just think that there is something compounding to this.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: And we are connected in our desire to want to do good.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: We are also connected in our desire that we don't know what the heck to do.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: But we know we need to start and I just am very grateful, not only for this conversation, but that this book will be out and we'll give somebody a framework and we'll give them tools and we'll give them some of that roadmap to let their own ripple happen.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: So we want to tie this up with a really pretty bow.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: We call it the one good thing and we want to know, like, what is a piece of advice or maybe some wise counsel to leave with our audience?
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: What's percolating up for you?
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: That's a hard one to you guys.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: Like one good thing, I would say join something or invite someone over.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: Like, do one thing, one action.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: I know I've kind of hammered this kitchen table idea but you have one.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I bet most of your people, most of your friends on this podcast, have a kitchen table.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Think about it as a locus of inviting people being invited in table.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Think about it as a locus of inviting people being invited in and all that goes into being invited in.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: I want to add something about philanthropy.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I started this conversation by talking about my grandfather, who I never met.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: So one of the things that's really beautiful to talk about with friends and neighbors is on whose shoulders do you stand to do this work and what kind of ancestor do you want to be for the future generations of your family or your mentees or your nieces and nephews, about whom you can only dream?
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: And those of us who get to work in philanthropy and nonprofits and social change have this incredible privilege to be able to do something that is building on the kind of legacy that we're sort of trying to connect here.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: You know, like those of us alive today are in between the past and the future, like it's just an obvious thing, right, but there's like a profound beauty if we really sit in that.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: The possibility of that, you know, the people who came before us, on whose shoulders I stand to do the work that I do, and the people who are going to come after me, about whom I can only dream, you know, that's just like a beautiful idea.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: And I also think you know that you know I included in my book some people who are like radically different than me.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Like you know, my dad's a lifelong Republican.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: I grew up in Kansas City like radically different than me.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Like you know, my dad's a lifelong Republican I grew up in Kansas City mostly Republicans and party-wise people I grew up with, but they're like kind, decent, good neighbors, you know, good people with integrity.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: You know, like the kind of people I would want to have my key if I were leaving a key around, if I, you know, I'm losing my key all the time, and I think that many of us are like that.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: You know we don't have to be the same in lots of different ways, but there's like I think there's a lot of us who want to be good neighbors, who want to be good parents, who want to be good members of our community good, you know, participants in our children's schools or whatever like.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: We want to lean into that and I think we have to, like, reanimate that in us right now, and one of the ways to do that is to join something or invite people to sit at your kitchen table and talk about what's important to you.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: So that would be my last.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: I think my one good thing.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Get the leaf out.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: I keep the visual of growing the table is also add a leaf add a leaf kids bring the leaf in and if you're my mother, go get the padding that goes on top of the leaf because we don't want any scratches on the table.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: Or, if you're me, haul over that side table because I don't have a leaf, but we can add our table.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, oh, my friend, this has been an epic conversation.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: We're so excited about your book.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Let's talk for a second.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I mean the big we.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: It is officially in bookstores everywhere tomorrow, so how can people find it?
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Where's the best place to go find the book?
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And and find you online?
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: Oh well, that's a great question, cause I'm trying to build a website, so it's coming.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: Holly, my name, holly H-A-L-L-E-Eco.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: Like co-op and buy the book.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: Wherever you buy books, find your independent local bookstore.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I really like Bookshop.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: I'm going there for all my books right now.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: But wherever you buy books, buy it and buy 10 and make a book group and I'll come talk to it.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: If I'm in your neighborhood, I travel a lot for work, so reach out to me, and I just found out I'm going to be on Good Morning American on.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: Wednesday Wednesday March 5th, in the morning with Ayesha Curry and I have to say I am so proud I mean, like my child, my son the basketball player, has never looked at me in the same way when Ayesha Curry.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Sweet July, and Ayesha just couldn't be nicer and I'm her first non-fiction title for Sweet July Books, which is an imprint of Zando.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: And so Aisha and I will be on Good Morning America on Wednesday March 5th.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: We will be watching in our fuzzy socks and pajamas at my house reading you on.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: It's so fantastic.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: And I'll also say, if you're trying to connect with Holly, she's also on LinkedIn, so please go connect with her.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Please explore this book, friends.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: The collective movement is here, it is upon us.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: It just needs people to step forward into it and raise their hand and lock arms with the people next to them.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Totally right.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: The collective is now and the future.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Amen, I mean it's here.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: It takes a village.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: We all know this.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: We are all products of villages who have helped raise us in some form or fashion.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Holly, adore you, adore this work.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I hope our work continues to intersect.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: We are absolutely going to be rooting you in this book on into the future.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me on, becky and John.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: I love meeting you and we're so aligned.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: We're doing, we're marching the same direction, yay.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Amen, let's do it more.