Latest / The Path Went Chilly / Kay Hall Pt. One

Transcript

Kay Hall Pt. One · The Path Went Chilly

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: So welcome to our latest episode of The Path Went Chili,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: and Ashley is pretty busy right now, so we've given
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: her another break. So for the next series of episodes,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: it'll just be Jewels in Myself again, where I will
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: provide her with details about a case and she will
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: give off her live reaction. So, Jules, have you ever
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: heard of the death of k Hall?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. But once you give me the details,
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: like I say all the time, because clearly I'm terrible
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: at remembering names, I might recognize the details of this case.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: But maybe not. Maybe this is completely foreign to me.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Well surprised, surprised. This was a case that was once
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: featured on Unsolved Mysteries. I originally covered it on the
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Trail Went Cold as a Patreon bonus episode, but during
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: one of the weeks when I was taking time off,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: we decided to release it into our main feeds. So
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: it is possible that you have heard the episode at
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: some point. And this is one of our favorite sub
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: genres Unsolved Mysteries, cases where a woman's disappearance or death
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: is under suspicion and their spouse is the prime suspect
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: and they were willing to appear on Unsolved Mysteries and
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: give an interview to proclaim their innocence, and thought it
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: would make them look good, but the majority of the
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: time it did not, and it wound up backfiring in
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: a huge way. This is one about a woman where
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: her husband was accused of running her over with her
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: own pickup truck. It did eventually reach a resolution, but
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: it was a very unsatisfying resolution. So there are a
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: lot of unanswered questions. And this is one of those
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: cases where you think, even if the suspected spouse was guilty,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: how exactly did they pull it off? And that's that's
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: why I thought we should cover this one, because even
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: though from a legal standpoint it is solved, there's still
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a lot to discuss.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Well, this sounds like a really interesting case. And to
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: think that if you were going to end the life
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: of your spouse, the idea of running them over, it
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: just it feels really horrific. Is there not another i mean,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: less messy or painful way to do it, a way
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: that would as sure that that person would pass on calmly?
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I mean just to run somebody over that feels so savage.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always suspected that if the spouse did do
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: it in this case, it probably wasn't premeditated. It may
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: have been just a violent heat of the moment thing.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: But what's really interesting to analyze is that the timeline
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: is so important because you can pretty much measure out
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: where certain people were at certain times, and you look
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: at it and you're wondering, Okay, would the spouse have
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: had enough time to pull this crime off and get
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: away with it? And what do you been known where
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the victim was and known where to find her in
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: order to commit this crime. And that's why people are
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: still debating this one nearly forty years later, even though
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: it has technically resolved.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I love a tricky timeline, So let's dig into
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: the details.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Okay. So it takes place in Virginia, and the victim
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: was Kay Hall, who was forty five years old at
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the time of her death. During the nineteen seventies, she
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: was unmarried and was going under the name Kay Bredorius,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and she became acquainted with a guy named Bob Hall.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: There really aren't that many details about Bob's previous life.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: We do know that he had a daughter, but it's
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: unclear if he was married or if the relationship with
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: the mother just fell apart pretty quickly, and it sounds
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: like Bob and Kay were just casual acquaintances. But in
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the early nineteen eighties, Bob wound up getting arrested for
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: selling drugs and he received a two year prison sentence,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: And the details about this are murky, but somehow, after
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Bob went behind bars, he and Kay developed a stronger relationship,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: became involved in a prison pen pal program, and continually
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: corresponded over the course of the next two years. So
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: by the time Bob was released in nineteen eighty two,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Kay was waiting for him outside the prison to pick
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: him up, and she actually brought Bob home to live
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: with her. They developed a serious relationship. She pretty much
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: financially supported him before they got married in nineteen eighty five.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, so that's a lot of information that's really interesting.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: We have Bob Hall who has drug offenses in his past,
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: but insofar as we know, there's no violent offenses.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not one hundred percent sure, because as we're going
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: to talk about, there would be allegations of domestic violence
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: in this marriage. But like I said, I don't know
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: any details about Bob's previously relationship with his daughter's mother,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: So there could have been domestic violence. We just don't know.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think we have to take the time
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: period into account that in many situations, women would be
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: a lot less likely to come forward versus today. Even now.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: It's difficult, but if we're talking nineteen seventies nineteen eighties,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: the view of authorities to a woman who would go
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: into a police station and talk about how her husband
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: was physically abusing her or abusing her in some way
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: might not be taken the same as it would today.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: She might be laughed out of there if she got
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: a particularly insensitive police department. So there can be a
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: lot of variables that go into if a woman decides
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: to come forward and share her story, or a man
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: decides to share his story. So, like you said, just
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: because the information there, the absence of evidence, isn't the
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: evidence of absence.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, It is very possible that Bob did have
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: a prior history of violence. We just don't know about
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: it yet. But whatever happened, Even though it sounds like
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Kay and Bob were nothing more than real casual acquaintances
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: before he went to prison, it seems like Kay developed
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: a fascination for him after he went behind bars, and
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: maybe she was just lone, maybe she just had a
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: hard time finding a man, so she decided to enter
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: this prison pen pal program and obviously thought of Bob
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: so highly that the moment he was released from prison,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: she pretty much decided, I want to be in a
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: relationship with this guy, and I'm going to allow him
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: to live with me. So very unusual.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think oftentimes when you look at prison relationships,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of different things to go into it.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: If you are somebody who maybe wants a safe relationship
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: and that you can't get as emotionally devastated, and you
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: keep somebody at an arm's length, then being with somebody
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: who's in prison, you have that barrier between you, so
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: it can't get too deep. It can't get too serious
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: like it can, but it really can't in the same
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: way that having somebody physically near you a relationship would
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: typically develop. And then you have those who have hybristophilia
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: who are sexually attracted to those that who have criminal
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: or deviant acts, and that is arousing for them. But
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: it doesn't sound like that is the situation here. It's
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: not like Bob was out there doing violent, horrible things.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: It's a drug offense, and we don't really know the
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: details of what type of drugs, do we No, We
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: don't no. So I mean, for all we know, it
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: could be marijuana, it might be something really minor. And
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: maybe when Bob went to prison it was just a
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: case that Cave was like, Wow, I really miss having
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: him in my life, and let's just see where this goes.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Because that's a big commitment to take on to write
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: to him in prison all the time, and then when
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: he gets out, to allow him to live with you,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: and then to financially support him. So it sounds like
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Kay was all in with Bob.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: That's what it sounds like. Yeah, And you see him
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: interviewed on unsol Mysteries like, he doesn't come across as
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: like a creep. He sounds like someone that if you
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: just knew him as a casual acquaintance in real life,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: you would think he was a decent guy. So I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: obviously probably had some charm, even though he may have
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: just been using her to try to have a meal
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: ticket when he finally got released from prison. So the
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: couple lived in a community called Mary Point, Virginia, located
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: in Lancaster County and their home was on the shores
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: of the Corodamin River near at Chesapeake Bay. And even
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: though Kay had a successful career as an insurance executive
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: at that point, she decided to leave that behind to
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: open an oyster farming business with Bob, which whenever I
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: heard that term on Unsolved Mysteries, I was like, Wow,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I had never heard of that, But apparently it is
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: something that originated from France. It's very popular there where
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: you catch oysters and then sell off their shells and
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: their pearls and also sell them off for food and
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: you can apparently make a lot of money. And I
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: guess they are also prominent New yor Chesapeake Bay because
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of oysters there. But here it
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: turned out to be a disaster because within six months
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: the business ran into serious financial difficulties. Ka lost around
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars and she completely exhausted the assets
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: of her retirement fund, and perhaps nevitably, this caused friction
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: on the marriage, as Kay had this six scessful career
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: going on as an insurance executive and she decided to
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: go all in with her husband to start this new
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: business and it failed almost immediately.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: I really wonder what the dynamics of this decision to
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: leave her career as a successful insurance executive to start
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: an oyster farm. What was it Bob who broached the
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: subject and really pushed and said, Hey, I've got this idea.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: And maybe it sounds a little flash in the pan,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: this oyster farm idea, but hey, we could if we
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: are successful, then this could be incredibly lucrative for us.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: And that's a big if, because there's so many things
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: to go into starting a business, and then you have
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: something like oysters. If they're prominent, they're then great. But
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know what type of business plan or research
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: they put behind this before Kay decided this was a
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: good time to quit her very successful career that she
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: likely had spent years building up and building up the
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: relationships in order to get to where she had ascended to.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: So it sounds like a big decision. I'm just curious
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: how much of it was Kay and how much of
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: it was Bob applying pressure.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Would not surprise me if it was Bob, and I
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: saw the confused look on your face when I mentioned
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: oyster farming for the first time, that's just not something
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: people familiar with. It sounds like a really niche business,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: and it's obviously a lot of hard work because you
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: got to get a boat, you got to go out
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: there and catch oysters and hope that you're able to
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: sell enough of it to make a profit, and obviously
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: they didn't. Bob actually wound up declaring bankruptcy and he
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: had an interest in their home, but Kay decided to
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: sell it in order to satisfy a tax lean and
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: then Kay subsequently purchased Bob's interest in an internal revenue
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: delinquent tax sale. So the whole situation caused a negative
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: impact on their marriage, as the friend said that Bob
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: and Kay started drinking heavily and were constantly fighting, and
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Kay even went so far as to tell a couple
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: of her friends that Bob was being physically abusive towards her,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: And even though no one personally witnessed any abuse and
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: she'd never called the police, there were people who said
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: that they were called seeing her with bruises or black eyes,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: so her allegations did seem credible. But in spite of that,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Kay said that she was willing to go to marriage
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: counseling and make try to make the relationship work. But
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: it sounds like that all the financial pressures and the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: heavy drinking were just causing the marriage to get worse.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Wow. I feel really bad for Kay at this point
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: because she had everything going for her and then she
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: decides to embark on this relationship with Bob and everything
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: starts to fall apart. Not only did she lose her
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: very successful career, but her retirement fund or like her
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: retirement savings and all the save money that she had.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And then she had the tax Liane on the home
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: which she decided to sell and then bought Bob's part.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: It seems like there's a lot of pressure. It sounds
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: like her marriage right now is a pressure cooker because
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: you have one a failed business too, You're going to
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: have to move and so your home, which we know
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: is one of the biggest stresses in life. And then
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: we add alcohol to the mix, so we have two
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: people who are potentially in the throes of alcohol used
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: disorder or just drinking too much. So that can really
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: shine a spotlight on any little, tiny issue. And if
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: we have domestic violence happening, which I choose to believe, women,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: if Kay's telling her friends that that's what's happening in
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: their marriage, then I believe her. We've got no reason
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: not to. And Bob, obviously, when we don't know if
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: this is an alcohol fueled thing where he drinks and
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: then he's abusive, or if it's just the financial pressure
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: and potentially the power dynamics in that if he were
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: to split from Kay, what would he have k would
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: be okay, she could go and find another job in insurance.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Maybe it wouldn't be as lucrative as being an insurance executive.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: But I feel as though she would be okay. But Bob,
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, I'm not so sure.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely like this later on is going to
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: be pushed forward as a potential motive for murder because
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Kay had bought like Bob's interest in the house. Bob
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: was bankrupt, his business has gone downhill, so if she
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: left him, if she kicked him out, he would have nothing,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and obviously, as a former drug dealer who spent time
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: in prison, it's not going to be easy for him
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: to get another job. And sure enough, there would be
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: more money coming into this situation, which provided a potential
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: motive because on September the thirtieth, nineteen eighty seven, Kay
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: learned that she was going to inherit fifty thousand dollars
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: from a relative who passed away, and that was seriously
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: going to help her financial issues, and that very same
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: morning she immediately transferred half the money into her bank accounts.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: So it sounds like things were going better for her,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: But of course Bob would not be entitled to that
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: money if Kay decided to end the marriage, so you
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: can see how some tension was going to get even worse.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: So later that very same night, Kay and Bob decided
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: to go to a party at the Indian Creek Country Club,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: which was located about fourteen miles from their home in
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: an adjacent county, Northumberland County. And everyone said that this
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: good fortune, this new inheritance, put Kay in a very
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: great mood. They described her as being outgoing and friendly
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: and being the life of the party. But her and
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Bob started to partake in some heavy drinking and this
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: eventually led to another argument, and it sounds like the
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: big breaking point is that Kay got angry with Bob
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: because he apparently gave the bartender an unusually large tip,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: which may have been the result of this big inheritance
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: where he finally decided I'm going to start tipping people,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: even though it's technically not my money. So this caused
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: a huge rift, and Kay decided to storm out of
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: the country club at around eight pm and just decided
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to get into her pickup truck and drive away, stranding
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Bob there. So when the party ended, Bob did not
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: have a ride home, so another couple drove him home
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and dropped him off at eight forty five PM. And
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: this is a very important detail because sometime within the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: next hour Ka would be killed. And now we know
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: that Bob was at his house at eight forty five,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a lot of unanswered questions about how,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: if he did kill k did he know where to
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: find her.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's interesting, So we see something some major cracks
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: in the marriage in that Bob is out there spending
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: and Kay is probably of the mindset that, like, let's
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: be more responsible. She was an insurance executive, so Kay's
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: good with numbers. We can assume that much, and we
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: can assume that she's got a pretty good eye on
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: what would be the right financial moves. And then we've
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: got Bob, who doesn't seem to be formally educated in
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: anything of the sort, and he was a former drug dealer,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: so I mean it is possible that he could be
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: good with numbers. But if he's spending lavishly and tipping
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: money that isn't his, I could see how that would
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: frustrate Kay, especially if this is a pattern of behavior.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Bob is spending what they don't have, and now Ka
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: is in a situation where she's cleaning up his messes,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: and it sounds like that that is a potential for
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: maybe what happen with you Oyster Farm.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like the same type of thing where
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Kay is in a great mood, like she says, I've
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: got this fifty thousand dollars inheritance, like this could be
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: the resolution to all our problems, and it leaves her
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: in a great mood, and then the very same night
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: she suddenly starts getting pissed off again because Bob is
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: becoming irresponsible and probably sent spending too much money. And
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people who witness that argument
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: were probably thinking of themselves, hmm. Maybe now that Kay
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: has more financial security, she'll be more comfortable ending the marriage.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And this as we're going to find out is one
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: of the main reasons people suspected that Bob suddenly decided
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: that night that he was going to kill his wife
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: and possibly even gets entitled to inherit that fifty thousand dollars.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: So it'd be around nine to fifty five pm, just
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: over an hour after Bob was dropped off at home,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: when Kay would be discovered to be dead. Two car
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: loads of people who are leaving a party in Northumberland
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: County came across kse pickup truck parked on Bluff Point Road,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: which was a dead end back road located two miles
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: east from the Indian Creek Country Club. And I find
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: that detail interesting because this is in the opposite direction
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: of the Hall's residence, because when Bob was dropped off
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: at home, they traveled fourteen miles west and here she
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: is two miles east from the club, in the opposite direction.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: But these people would find Ka's body underneath the truck's tires,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: and it was apparent that she had been run over
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: and crushed to death. The keys were in the truck's ignition,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the engine was still running, the lights were on, and
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: the transmission was in park. It appeared that someone had
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: backed over K's torso with the left rear tire, and
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: the driver then attempted to apply the brakes and stop
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: the truck, but it wound up skidding and this caused
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: the left front tire to catch Kse torso and pull
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: her backwards, which twisted her body into a very awkward position.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: And because K's body was still warm, like her death
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: had taken place a very short time before her body
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: was discovered and under normal circumstances, people were thought, well,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: could this be some tragic freak accident, But the fact
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: that the transmission was in park was a sign that
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: someone had deliberately backed the truck over her.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the distance from where K's body is found
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: and the residence is how far sixteen miles?
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, we have the club where Bob and K were
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: which is located in Northumberland County, and it's fourteen miles
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: west from the club to the Hall residence, and it's
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: two miles east from the club to the spot where
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: K was found. So obviously, even you know you're suspecting Bob,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: you're thinking to yourself, why was Kay in this particular
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: location and how did Bob know where to find her?
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: If he did it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like initially I was thinking if this was just
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: like two miles away, then I could see a scenario
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: where Bob comes home. K's home already and he says,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: let's go for a and talk, and they go for
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: a drive. Then they're arguing. At some point she gets
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: out of the vehicle, he runs her over, and then
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: he jogs back to the residents. I guess there's still
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: a possibility that that could have happened, and he hitchhiked
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: and got back to his home, and that way he
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have to know where to find her because she
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: was already at home. They took the vehicle and then
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: he just left it there and then hitchhiked. I mean,
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: you're taking a pretty large risk if you're going to hitchhike,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: because you're exposing yourself to somebody. But this is before
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: social media. This is before the internet, right, what years.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: This again, nineteen eighty seven?
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so the internet wasn't what, It wasn't a
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: variable here, Like they wouldn't have had a computer. And
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: so if somebody is getting the news that somebody may
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: have hitched a ride and they want information pertaining to that,
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: you would have to catch it very specifically on your
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: local news, I would think, because there'd really be no
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: other way to disseminate that information pretty much.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And as we're going to talk about, Bob did
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: own a jeep that he had at his residence, so theoretically,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: after he was dropped off, he could have climbed into
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: the jeep and gone out driving and found Kay. And
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: as we're going to talk about, there is some evidence
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: to suggest he did use a vehicle that night. But
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: once again, the question is how did he know where
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Kay was? Because this was in the opposite direction of
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the club. As far as I can tell, there was
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: no significance to this particular road. So Bob theoretically could
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: have driven to this spot, killed k and driven home.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: The timeline is possible, but it's just a matter of
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: would he know where to find her because obviously in
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven there aren't any cell phones, so it's
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: not like he could have called She could have called
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Bob and say, come meet me at this specific spot.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: And wasn't she run over with her own vehicle? She was, yes,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: So what did Bob find her and then get her
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: out of the driver's seat and then push her out
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: and then run her over. It would make more sense
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: if she was run over by another vehicle.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That's why it is so unusual about this case,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: is the running over with her own truck. And at
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: first they even explored the possibility that it could have
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: been an accident because Kay. As we talked about, Kay
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: left the country club at eight o'clock and the last
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: confirmed sighting of her took place at eight point fifty,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: and it sounds like that she was very intoxicated at
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the time because a homeowner from the area claimed that
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: she saw k running over a boxwood of plants on
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: someone's lawn and she nearly drove into a swimming pool
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: before she backed up and drove away. And they would
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: later do a toxicology g test and a toxicology test
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and found out that she had a blood alcohol content
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: of zero point two seven, which was nearly three times
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the legal limit. And she also, a couple months beforehand,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: had gotten the DUI and was driving on a restricted
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: license at this point, so she obviously had a history
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: of driving well intoxicated. But unfortunately, there were also some
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: signs to point towards foul play because there appeared to
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: be visible signs of a scuffle inside tab of the truck,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: as Kay's broken necklace and three fake fingernails were found
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: on the seat and the floor. And like I just mentioned,
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the transmission was in Parks. So even though because of
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Kay's intoxication it wasn't completely implausible that this could have
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: been in a freak accident, there was enough evidence there
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: to suggest that she was in a struggle and that
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: someone used the truck to run her over.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: And this sounds like a pretty likely theory, but I
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: mean not a theory, but like, this sounds like it's
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: highly probable. But then we also have to introduce the
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: possibility that, what is more likely, did Kay in her
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: drunken stupor maybe pick up a hitchhiker or give somebody
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: a ride and then that person did her harm. Or
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: did Bob just have the incredible luck to be able
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: to randomly find her sixteen miles from his home, quite
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: the way in the opposite direction of the country club.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: It just seems so improbable to me that he would
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: get into his vehicle and somehow be able to find
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: her and then get her out of the driver's seat,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: get himself into the driver's seat, then fight with her
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and then run her over and leave. I'm almost more
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: inclined to believe that they both took that vehicle if
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Bob did it. They both took her vehicle, went for
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: a drive to talk, and then she got out of
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: the vehicle and he ran her over, and then he
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: hitchhiked out of there. And the person who gave him
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: a ride just never saw any coverage on the news
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: or any asking of information, if there was any, because
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I just think it seems so it seems like so
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: statistically improbable that such a distance away from your home
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: you're looking for somebody, you're going to be able to
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: find them. Why would you even be looking there?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Like on the surface, when you hear all
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: the details, like it's easy, you think like it's really
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: difficult for Bob to have pulled this off. But now
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to start sharing the details which cast him
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: in a very suspicious light. Make you wonder like why
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: this case is such a conundrum, because you'll change your
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: mind several times when you hear more details. So, at
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: around one am, the Virginia State Police showed up at
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Bob's residence to try to inform him about Kay's death.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: The first person who showed up with a state trooper
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: who said who told Bob that Kay had been killed
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: in an accident, but didn't really provide any specific details.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: And shortly thereafter, the lead investigator, special Agent David Riley
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: from the Virginia State Police, showed up to Bob's residence
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: and when they started the conversation, Bob casually mentioned that
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Kay had been run over with a truck, and Riley
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: instantly became suspicious because the state trooper had simply said
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Kay had been killed in an accident. He didn't specifically
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: say she had been run over by a truck. So
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: if you're informed that your spouse has been killed, you're
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: automatically assumed that when they say accident, that she crashed
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: her car. But him saying that she was run over
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: by the truck seemed awfully specific, So that immediately raised
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: some red flags.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, Bob, Like, how would you know that information?
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: And why would one assume that if you were told
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: that somebody was in an accident. I would think that
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: that would be somewhere on like, you know, your fourth
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: or fifth guess as to what could have happened to
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: somebody if they were in an accident, You wouldn't assume
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: they were run over. Why would you even think that
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: they were outside of the vehicle.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and obviously like they weren't thinking. Bob was
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: a suspect at first because here he was at home
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: and it was such an unusual manner of death. But
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: then things got even worse because when Agent Riley Special
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Agent Riley showed up at the residence, he noticed Bob's
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: jeep in the driveway and decided to touch the engine
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: and discovered that it was warm, indicating that it had
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: been recently driven, even though Bob had been taken to
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the country club in case trucks, so there should have
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: been no reason for him to be driving it that night.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: So when he initially questioned Bob, he said that after
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: he was dropped off by his friends at eight forty five,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: he was at home the entire time, But then asked,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: how come the engine on your jeep is warm, and
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Bob suddenly changed his story and said that, oh, when
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I arrived home and noticed that Kay was not there,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I drove to the end of the lane on our
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: road and back in order to perform a quick search
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: for her. But I couldn't find Kay well specially, Agent
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Riley was still pretty suspicious, so he decided to use
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: a trick to try and call Bob's bluff and said
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: that someone had seen him in the town of Kilmarnock,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: which is located about halfway between the Hall residents and
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: the location where Kay was killed. Now, this was completely untrue.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: There was no one who had seen Bob. But Bob suddenly,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: once he hears this, decides to change his story again
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and said that, oh yeah. When I couldn't find Kay,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: I decided to make a quick drive to the Lancaster
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Courthouse because Kay had recently been arrested for you a dui,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: and since she had been intoxicated when she left the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: country club, I was concerned that she may have been
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: arrested again. But then I drove to the courthouse and
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: I noticed that her pickup truck was not in the
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: parking lot, So then I just immediately drove back home.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: And more red flags here, because he just keeps changing
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: his story when they give him new information.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: This is highly suspicious. I feel like, because of the
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: wild timeline and because we have it just seems so
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: highly improbable that Bob would be able to drive find
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: her and that things would go down the way that
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: they did. But with every interaction that he's having with police,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: it seems like he's lying, and he doesn't seem to
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: be lying to cover anything else up. I mean, insofar
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: as we know he's not out there dealing drugs anymore,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: because we know oftentimes people can be hiding something, it
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean they're responsible for the crime. But in this case,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: we know that Bob has what seems like a pretty
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: clear motive since Kay inherited that money, and it looks
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: like Kay might be leaving Bob, and the timing of
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: it all is highly suspicious.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Kay is dead.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: He's lying about the use of the vehicle and why
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: the engine is warmer the hood it is warm from
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: the engine, and anytime new information is given, he's amending
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: his story. It's looking pretty clear that Bob is being
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: deceptive here, and I can't really see a way that
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: he isn't involved at this point. So, yeah, you're right,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I'm changing my mind.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not surprised. Usually when people hear that story,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: that's when they start changing their mind and realize, oh,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: even though the logistics are difficult, it really does sound
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: like Bob is involved. But of course you presented that
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: really intriguing theory about the hitchhiker, because I'm thinking maybe
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: there's a scenario where Kay after she left the club,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: maybe she met Bob at home, they went out and
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: to drive together, and then after he killed her, he
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: hitchhiked home. But the problem is that the engine on
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: the jeep was warm, and there's no indication that Bob
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: would have driven it anywhere else that night, So that
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: pretty much shows that if he did this, he had
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: to have driven the jeep, and that this whole hitchhiker
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: theory probably didn't happen.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Okay, Devil's Advocate, I don't think this is likely, but
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna throw it out there. So I just
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: mentioned that oftentimes people will lie or be deceptive because
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: they have something to hide, or they don't want to
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: appear a certain way, and so they'll change some details,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: put some judge on it, maybe amend the truth a
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: little bit in hopes that the way that they're perceived
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: is different. And maybe we have Bob who was out
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: there looking for k and maybe his intentions weren't good.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Maybe he realizes, oh my gosh, Ky's been found dead.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: And I was out there driving around, They're going to
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: think that I did it. So maybe I should lie
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: and just say that I wasn't out driving around, because
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: then they know that I was dropped off. The logistics
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: are difficult. I had nothing to do with this, so
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna lie a little bit because I don't
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: want to go back to prison. And I don't think
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: it's likely, but it is possible.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Well, the one reason that might be plausible is because
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: it was established that Bob had been drinking heavily at
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the club, so he technically shouldn't have been driving if
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: he had gotten home. So maybe he's thinking to himself,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: even though I didn't kill k, I'm technically out there driving. Well,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I'm intoxicated, and if they give me a breathalyzer, I
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: might be charged and arrested anyway. So that's why he
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: decided to lie, even if he was completely innocent.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: And at this point do we know if he's on parole.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: It's been five years since he was released from prison,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: so I don't know if, like, if there were any
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: terms for his probation, but since he only served two years,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I'd like to think that maybe if he had a
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: parole period or a probation period it might have expired
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: since he was released in nineteen eighty two.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Probably since it was a drug offense, it wasn't a
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: violent offense, so I couldn't see like parole or probation
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: or whatever extending past the five year period.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. He probably wasn't any any
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: legal risk of possibly being sent back to jail for
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: violating his parole. But like you said, obviously like police
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: become suspicious because he definitely has the motive. It just
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: seems like quite a coincidence that Kay would inherit a
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars that very same morning and then get
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: killed several hours later that same night. And they started
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: talking to Kay's friends and they're saying that, yeah, Kay
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: had spoken about divorcing him and threatening him with divorce,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and since she owned controlling interest in their home, this
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: would mean that Bob would get nothing. But because like
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: no divorce papers have been filed now, Bob was in
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: a position to possibly inherit the fifty thousand dollars even
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: though it technically did not belong to him. So it
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: just seems like if they had a breaking point that night. If,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: like K flat out told him I want a divorce,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: then Bob could have been motivated to kill her in
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: the heat of the moment.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the laws are in the state
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: and when it comes to divorces, because it varies from
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: state to state, But if they didn't have a prenuptial agreement,
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: then even though the house is in K's name, Bob
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: might have still been able to lay claim to fifty
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: percent of that if they did in fact go forward
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: with the divorce proceedings.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I guess it was like extraordinary circumstance.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: This is because technically she purchased controlling interest in the
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: home from him as part of a tax lean because
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: he had filed for bankruptcy, So no matter what the
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: divorce laws were, it's possible she still would have been
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: entitled to the entire house. So obviously, the big problem
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: with pitting this crime on Bob is finding any evidence
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: to place him at the scene, because I mentioned that
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: he was dropped off at home at eight forty five.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: The last confirmed sighting of K while she was alive
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: was at around eight point fifty, when the neighbor thought
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: that she was about to drive into the pool, and
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Bob also made a five minute long distance phone call
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: to his daughter from his house at nine forty seven,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: And so that's literally a window of one hour and
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: two minutes when Bob could have driven to this location,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: driven home, killed Kay, and then driven home in order
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: to make this phone call. So it was sixteen miles
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: from the Hall residence to the spot where Kay was found,
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: and it would have taken between something like seventeen to
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: twenty four minutes to drive there, so Bob could have
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: had maybe between fifteen to twenty five minutes to kill
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: k and then drive back home to make the phone call.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: But they just didn't have any evidence placing him at
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: the scene because even though the engine on the jeep
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: was warm, there was no one who could verify that
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: they saw Bob driving him that night or saw him
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: in the area near Bluff Point Road where Ka was found.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: And there was also one witness who lived near the
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: crime scene who said that they remembered seeing Kay's pickup
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: truck drive past her house that night, but she claimed
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: that she saw no other vehicles pass by for another
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: hour or so before the police and paramedics arrived at
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: the crime scene. So even though it was theoretically possible
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: for Bob to have driven this distance, they just couldn't
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: prove it. There was no one who saw him in
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: that area.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, we know that Bob did drive somewhere because
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: he has the hood of the vehicles warm he admits
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: to it. But I do have still an issue with
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: logistics here, Okay, So like it's taking him maybe seventeen
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: minutes to drive each way. Like let's just say, if
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: he knows exactly where he's going, it's taking like thirty
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: five ish minutes, So that gives him what like twenty
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: six twenty seven minutes something like that to kill Ky
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: and then to go on his way or to look
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: for her. Because we're assuming if he's spending thirty five
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: minutes driving, he's got twenty five minutes. That means he
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: knows exactly where he's going, that he's not doing any
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: driving around looking for her. And this seems to be
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: an odd place where she was found or where her
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: vehicle was. It wouldn't be like this a lookout point
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: or somewhere that like she was known to go, So
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: we would have to assume that he would spend some
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: time looking for her. He's not just going to know
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: where she is. He doesn't have her on like Find
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: my Friends, so it's not like he can track her
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: location or anything like that. So how would he know
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: to find her here? And how did he do so
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: within such a tight timeline?
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is my big sticking point to this case.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: And the fact that there doesn't seem to be any
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: significance to this particular road where she was found because
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: it was a dead end road. I don't want to
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: say anything about Kay having any connection to the area.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: And also the fact that she left the club at
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: eight o'clock and we have the eyewitness sighting of her
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: almost driving into the pool at eight point fifty and
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: this is only two miles away, So where was Kay
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: during that fifty minute window? Like what was she doing?
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Was she just driving around or something like that thinking
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: about what she's going to do? And like we talked about,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: how did Bob know that Kay would be in this area, because,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: like we said, she's not going to call on the
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: cell phone. We know that they checked Bob's phone records.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: So if theoretically, if Kay had found a payphone and
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: then called the residence and told Bob, hey, I'm at
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: this location, can you come meet me? That would have
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: shown up on the phone records. So it just seems
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: like if Bob did this, he just got incredibly lucky
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: that he was able to find Kay in such a
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: narrow window of time.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, he definitely has the motive, and we see
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: the money motive, We see Kay potentially leaving him and
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: his life would implode, and we also have the fight
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: at the country club. But logistically, it's so hard for
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: me to wrap my head around the fact that he
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: could do this in this amount of time, and that
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: he would be able to successfully find K in such
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: a short timeframe, so far away from his home in
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: the opposite direction of the country club, and he was
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: incredibly intoxicated at the time too. It's not like he
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: was operating on all cylinders. So this is really hard
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: for me to wrap my head around. As much as
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: I think, like Bob is not a great guy because
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: of the domestic potential domestic violence, and also just his
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: pattern of behavior and the way that he seems to
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: treat K, but I also just could never with one
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: hundred percent certainty based on the information that we have,
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: say that it's one hundred percent.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Bob, Yeah, exactly, like I still think. No matter if
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: you think Bob is guilty, there is still a lot
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: of reasonable doubt in this case. And of course investigators
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: would attempt to test out the timeline because the lead investigator,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Special Agent Riley, would drive the sixteen mile route from
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: the Hall residence at the end of Bluff Point Row
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: numerous times to try to test it. And he said
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: that yes, depending on how fast I was driving, each
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: trip usually took between seventeen to twenty four minutes, and
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: theoretically Bob would have had enough time to kill k
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: there and drive home. And I know these are very
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: popular in true crime cases. We've seen this on Cereal
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: where they do simulations of the routes that were driven
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: to see if it's theoretically possible to do it. But
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the issue with these simulations is that you can't one
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: hundred percent recreate the circumstances of the night the crime
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: took place, because hopefully Agent Riley is not going to
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: be drinking before he performs these tests, so he's obviously
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: not going to be able to recapture Bob's mindset that
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: night when he would have been intoxicated and been driving
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: around possibly erratically and not thinking clearly. And the big
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: difference is when Riley does the simulation, he knows where
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: he's going, he knows a specific point he can go to,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: and as far as we can tell, Bob didn't like
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: he wouldn't have known that K was going to be
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: at this location, so you can't really you have to
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: factor in a whole bunch of other stuff, like would
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: he have gone on different routes like searching around for
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: K before he found her? So that kind of means
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: that even though the timeline shows that he theoretically could
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: have done it, it doesn't mean that it's one hundred percent.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: And I think you made some great points. We have
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of variables that we can't fully understand. You
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: can't get into the mind of Bob because, like you said,
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: it would be illegal for him to be running the
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: simulation and being completely drunk, right, you can't. You can't
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: do it. It's just it wouldn't be an ethical thing
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: to do and it would be illegal, So that is
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: out the window. And Bob doesn't know where he's going,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: so you add him being well past the legal limit,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, and also he doesn't know where he's driving
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: it's nighttime, you don't know what the weather was like,
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: what the traffic was like, exactly what he was thinking.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: So yeah, theoretically it is possible, but how probable it is,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I just can't in good conscience be like, oh,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Bob did it, even though I know he's not a
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: great guy and there's like a strong likelihood that he
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: could have I just can't one hundred percent say like, yeah,
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: he's the guy, just because, like, how rare is it
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: that we have a case with such clear motive and
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: we have them have a fight right before the victim
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: in this case, Kay ends up murdered and you end
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: up saying I don't know if he's responsible. It's it's
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: not very often.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: It's true, like this case is a roller coaster ride,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: And brace yourself because I'm going to give you another
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: swerve now, which is probably going to make you start
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: thinking again that Bob did it, because it casts them
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: in a very suspicious light. So, but before we do this,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: we're going to bring an end to this. I think
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: we've talked about enough. So this is an end of
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: part one, So join us next week for part two,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: when we talk further about the murder of k Hall Robin.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Do you want to tell us a little bit about
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: the trailment Cold Patreon? Uh?
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Yes. The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
• 40:00
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• 40:04
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• 40:10
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• 40:17
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  Speaker 1: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
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• 41:03
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• 41:22
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• 41:41
  Speaker 2: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy