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Ben Saur of 10 Speed Coffee Bar Slows Down for the Coffee People podcast. · Coffee People Podcast

• 0:00
  Sliding into your screen is not just any coffee bag, it's a
• 0:03
  Rostar coffee bag. Don't need thousands
• 0:07
  personalized, just 25 in Rostar's design lab.
• 0:10
  No design experience needed. Choose a pattern, add your logo
• 0:14
  and text, or create something memorable.
• 0:18
  With AI being made in the Midwest, you can expect it on
• 0:21
  your doorstep in no time. Now that was smooth.
• 1:15
  We'll get started and I'll say, hey, everyone, welcome to
• 1:17
  another episode of the Coffee People podcast.
• 1:20
  I'm your host, Ryan Wolt. The show is presented by Rostar
• 1:23
  Coffee Packaging, found online at rostar.com.
• 1:27
  We're on location today at 10 Speed Coffee Bar in Hood River
• 1:31
  with our guest Ben Sauer, owner, manager, farmer, I believe.
• 1:36
  I also farm, yeah. You've been in this coffee
• 1:42
  location for a long time. What's your role today at 10
• 1:46
  speed? This very day or today as in.
• 1:49
  Generally speaking, like are you day-to-day behind the bar?
• 1:53
  Are you managing and owning? Like what's your?
• 1:56
  What's your role? So I have a manager who does
• 2:00
  most of the day-to-day. I'm still here, paying bills,
• 2:03
  writing paychecks, checking in, keeping everyone happy, making
• 2:08
  sure the shop's running smoothly.
• 2:12
  This time of the year I do a lot more farm related things.
• 2:15
  I'm pretty busy on the farm. So my my role this time of year
• 2:20
  is pretty minimal. In the winter, I'm here a little
• 2:24
  bit more, quite a bit more really.
• 2:29
  And we'll even work shifts actually worked a couple shifts
• 2:33
  last or two weeks ago. So if someone's out of town, I
• 2:36
  think we have two people out of town.
• 2:38
  I'm kind of the you're the guy. I'm the like last.
• 2:43
  Last night. It wasn't always like that,
• 2:45
  though. Yeah.
• 2:48
  How long have you been here? Like 18 years in coffee or
• 2:50
  longer. This shop has been here for
• 2:55
  it'll be 20 years this fall. OK.
• 2:58
  I have been at the shop almost 18 years.
• 3:02
  Yeah, yeah. So I spent I think for a little
• 3:06
  over 4 years working. I managed for a little bit and
• 3:10
  then and I bought it in 2012. OK, so this is.
• 3:19
  That's kind of cool that you kind of worked your way in, knew
• 3:22
  it intimately and then invested into something you kind of knew
• 3:26
  and yeah, had spent the time, the time investment in.
• 3:30
  Yeah, Brian, who started 10 speed, we used to roast here
• 3:35
  too. There's still a vent right
• 3:36
  there. At least have a little 5K Pro
• 3:39
  Bat roaster. He wanted to expand.
• 3:44
  He bought a building and he was like, told me he's like, well,
• 3:47
  we're going to move. And I told him I said you can't,
• 3:50
  can't leave the spot. Like he was the only when he
• 3:53
  started, everyone thought he was a little bit nuts for starting
• 3:56
  up here in the Heights. Hood River has a downtown that's
• 3:58
  like very, it's like the busy part of Hood River, especially
• 4:03
  tourist season. You have a lot of tourist
• 4:04
  traffic. That's a part of that.
• 4:07
  Tourist traffic. Everyone thought he was nuts for
• 4:09
  not being down there, for opening up up here on the
• 4:12
  Heights. So when he decided he wanted to
• 4:16
  move a little closer to downtown, have a bigger building
• 4:18
  spanned, roasting everything, he said, well, if you want to buy
• 4:21
  in and run this place, you can. And so I said, all right.
• 4:26
  I kind of like that idea, though, that he he didn't want
• 4:31
  to depend on that tourism traffic.
• 4:33
  Yeah, You know, I've been in those tourist areas running
• 4:36
  businesses and restaurants, and if the tourists aren't there,
• 4:39
  you're kind of screwed because locals don't necessarily want to
• 4:42
  go there either and stand in line with everyone coming in.
• 4:45
  And it's very yes, and it's very seasonal.
• 4:48
  Yeah, because it's windsurfing, right?
• 4:51
  Wind kiting. Yeah, it, it started as
• 4:54
  windsurfing in the 80s and 90s and now it's all sorts of
• 4:57
  things, kite boarding, foiling. Now people have I don't I I feel
• 5:03
  weird talking about it because I really don't know.
• 5:05
  These kids today and their sports, I'll talk.
• 5:06
  But there's so many different things that people do on that
• 5:08
  river. What is it that they're they're
• 5:10
  X Games and their action adventures.
• 5:12
  Nobody really quite knows. But so when he started, it was,
• 5:17
  you know, now Hood River has grown a lot in the last 20
• 5:20
  years. So it's less that's it would be
• 5:24
  less risky or weird to, like, open something up here.
• 5:27
  Yeah. But 20 years ago, that was a big
• 5:29
  deal. Yeah, well, even then, when you
• 5:31
  would have invested in say 8-9 years into its adventure, that
• 5:36
  probably wasn't quite the most obvious solution other than you
• 5:39
  were already here, right? We were already here.
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  And then he was moving down, so we had kind of built in
• 5:45
  competition and we were both called 10 speed.
• 5:47
  He was the roastery, I was the coffee bar.
• 5:49
  OK. But he had a coffee bar down
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  there too, and everything. Yeah.
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  What made you think, you know as the barista here, the shop
• 5:57
  manager, that you wanted to be an owner?
• 6:00
  Because it's a different responsibility.
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  I have done coffee since I was 18, OK.
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  And so I yeah, I've always really loved it.
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  I love the craft of it. I love the social aspect of it.
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  I love the community aspect of it.
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  I had gotten married, we had moved to Portland for a couple
• 6:24
  years and I had still kind of worked here off and on.
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  I ended up commuting actually back here to work because we
• 6:31
  knew we were going to move back anyway.
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  So then shortly after that was when he when he wanted to move
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  down there and I was, I was ready.
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  You know, I love the spot, I love the people and I was ready.
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  It was, you know, at that time of my life, I was ready to, I
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  knew we were going to settle here.
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  Like, I mean, we've been living here for a long time.
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  We both grew up here and went high school here, but it was
• 6:55
  that time of my life where I was ready to commit to something.
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  Feels like moving to Portland is something that, like you, you're
• 7:01
  supposed to do when you're young.
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  And you grow up inside. Portland and then you end up
• 7:05
  finding your your place coffee in Hood River generally.
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  I mean, you mentioned it was risky 20 years ago here.
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  But right now when I'm in town, it feels like, oh, why isn't
• 7:18
  there? There's probably a coffee shop
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  every other block and it would be OK.
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  How is coffee culture here changed?
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  And I say that a little bit. So the coffee I'm drinking is
• 7:29
  your French press brewed Kickstand House.
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  Brew. And it's a really lovely, you
• 7:34
  know, come in, it's ready to go cup of coffee.
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  You know, a lot of small towns, maybe you don't have that.
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  Maybe the expectation is less. But clearly it's something you
• 7:44
  guys care about. So how is how things change from
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  when you started to now? Yeah, in the community
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  expectation wise. Well, I think coffee in general
• 7:54
  has changed a lot from 20 years ago.
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  I think that was 20 years ago was like, maybe I don't know the
• 8:00
  exact dates of everyone tracking, but that was kind of
• 8:02
  the birth of the third wave. And you had places like some
• 8:06
  town opening in Portland and and so there was a lot of energy,
• 8:12
  but in a small town it was still pretty foreign, you know.
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  And when Brian first opened this, he did pour overs only, no
• 8:22
  pre made drip coffee at all, which we've sent, you know.
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  I I started in a shop that only did pour over.
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  So, yeah, so you had no, yeah, no drip coffee, no nothing in an
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  air pot. So it was kind of a big shock
• 8:35
  for people. Price point too, It was a brave
• 8:39
  move for him. But as as specialty coffee and
• 8:44
  kind of third wave whatever became kind of more common and
• 8:48
  people kind of figured out what it was.
• 8:53
  Yeah, I think it's a slow change in a small town.
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  We still have drive through coffee places that are busy.
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  That seems to be a thing in the Pacific Northwest generally
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  though, like the drive through. I feel like we were just talk
• 9:08
  talking about this yesterday. Washington has a huge drive
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  through. Like in the 90s it was like it
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  just blew up. There was drive through kiosks
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  everywhere. And that's how my brother, I
• 9:19
  think started in coffee. He's also been in coffee a long
• 9:22
  time, working at like a buddy's drive through coffee kiosk.
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  So how has it changed? I think Hood River itself has
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  changed a lot as it's grown. Hood River used to be mainly
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  agriculture, working class farming community, and then it
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  slowly became more of tourism and then now it's really become
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  almost like a resort town feel. We have the mountain really
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  close, we have the river. So there's a lot of like
• 9:55
  recreation based, sure. And then it's all it's always on
• 9:58
  the list of, you know, the top 50 places to live in the USI.
• 10:02
  Don't like those places? I know.
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  Every time I see a city that I'm living in on that list, I want
• 10:06
  to move because I know what's coming.
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  No, don't, don't say that, you know, so land, you know, housing
• 10:14
  gone up, all the, all the, the kind of things you expect, which
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  a lot of them are bad and a lot of them and some of them are
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  good. And I think the good part is, is
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  that you can have a little more specialty business, right?
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  Like a, you know, like a little coffee shop that focuses on
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  quality and community. One thing I noticed about your
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  coffee shop here is, and I say this as the greatest compliment
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  I can give, simple menu. It's like coffee, your basics,
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  espresso, Americano, cappuccino. I don't see any like crazy acai
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  bowls. I love an acai bowls, but the
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  menu is simple. It's very clear what you're
• 11:00
  getting. These are beans.
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  Is there a reason why you haven't gone on to that?
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  Like it seems to be a really big thing.
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  Like how can we pack more things into the offering here as
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  especially with a more eclectic audience coming in?
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  What? Why keep the focus simple?
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  Why keep it on coffee? So I've, I've been working to
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  streamline our menu as long as I've been here.
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  Yeah, when we first opened, when Brian opened it, I think he had
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  to have a bigger menu to try to get either more people or to get
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  like a higher transact transaction per person.
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  You know, selling 3 to $5 cups of coffee wasn't going to cut it
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  for a business for him. And so he did a lot more food.
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  He did a lot more drink options. We used to have smoothies.
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  And then kind of even before I bought it, I really tried to
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  streamline the menu. And then when I took over, I
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  really started to pare things down.
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  And every year we do something less.
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  I will say, when I came in, both your baristas commented to me
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  about how happy they were. There were no.
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  Smoothies on the menu. Yeah, that's been a few years.
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  But one winter I just, I ended up taking the blender home and
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  I'm like, I'm not bringing it back.
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  So now we have a Vitamix at home, but we we only do a few
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  food options. We don't even do bagels and
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  cream cheese anymore. And my Staffs weren't really
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  good at that too, where they just last year they said, you
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  know, we just aren't selling it very much.
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  Is that the motivation then? Is it just a product that isn't
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  selling or is not like demand customers don't come in and be
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  like why don't you do this? I think it's both.
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  I think I have the intention of having a small menu so we can
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  really focus on doing a little bit really well rather than
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  doing a lot mediocre. We also have a really small shop
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  physically dimensions and we don't have a kitchen.
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  We don't have any like prep space.
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  So doing food is kind of a pain in the ass.
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  Also, we only have two people on on staff at any given time and
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  we can get really busy and to move through drinks and get
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  people through the line and get their coffee to them is so much
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  quicker. When you're not doing a lot of
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  food, you're not doing a lot of smoothies.
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  So when you have a really streamlined menu, I feel like
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  it's a better customer service tool.
• 13:37
  Yeah. Or it's a better customer
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  service? I I mean, I personally love
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  environment like that. It's easy and simple and I don't
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  like going into a place and having to think too hard about
• 13:48
  my coffee in the morning. I'm already struggling.
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  I just want to know that it's going to be good whatever I
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  order. You mentioned your brother a
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  couple times. I think his name is Tim.
• 13:57
  Did you get that right? And then you, you and your
• 14:02
  partner and Tim have sour farms. Sour.
• 14:05
  Family. Yeah, my my wife and I, your
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  wife and I, my brother helped me start it and then.
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  He's out. He's not at it anymore.
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  What is the farm like? What's the situation there?
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  And then why do it as well as, I mean, you already have a coffee
• 14:18
  shop that you own and now you're farming.
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  I grew up in a farming community.
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  It's not an easy gig, even if you're just doing it on a small
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  scale. Yeah, I got into farming before
• 14:27
  I bought, before I took over the shop.
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  So, so I, I started the farm, it was very small, just kind of
• 14:39
  like someone's big backyard. And then just as like just
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  'cause I was excited about it, I didn't do it.
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  I was reading books about it. And kind of the same time as we
• 14:54
  moved back to Hood River from Portland, that's when we started
• 14:57
  the farm. And it was just like, let's just
• 15:01
  none of us had any experience really.
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  So it was like, let's just start, see what happens.
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  We'll start really small and just kind of learn how to do
• 15:07
  this. And then I ended up buying the
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  shop, I think after our first year farming.
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  So I was working here full time in farming.
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  And then it just every year we just kind of got bigger and we
• 15:18
  found a piece of land to buy. So it's kind of like I had two
• 15:24
  passions. And at that point, to me, coffee
• 15:29
  was the shop was already set up. Right.
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  I don't think I would have started a brand new shop while I
• 15:36
  was farming, but buying into this and running this was a lot
• 15:40
  easier than starting something from scratch, so it just felt
• 15:43
  like I might as well do both and farming.
• 15:45
  We didn't really have any income for a while.
• 15:51
  Said to every farmer ever. Yeah.
• 15:54
  And especially starting out and not knowing anything, you know,
• 15:57
  we have no, like I said, with no experience.
• 16:00
  And you're so kind of unique in that.
• 16:02
  Did I see this like a horse powered farm?
• 16:04
  Yeah. So we have, we have a team of of
• 16:07
  work horses that do a lot of the primary cultivation and a lot of
• 16:13
  jobs on the farm. Is, are horses something that
• 16:16
  you are? Is it farming based like this?
• 16:19
  Is a need that we have for the type of farming we want to do?
• 16:22
  Or is like horses, something that you are I would say
• 16:25
  passionate about but you appreciate or that you had
• 16:28
  experience with because horses terrify the shit out.
• 16:31
  Of it, yeah, yeah. They seem really smart and
• 16:35
  strong. As I was getting into farming, I
• 16:37
  was also getting into the idea of farming with horses.
• 16:40
  Yeah. And so I actually found, and
• 16:45
  this old timer living in The Dalles, which is about 20 miles
• 16:47
  east of here, who had a team of work horses and I, I saw him in
• 16:53
  a in a periodical. There's A at a sisters OR
• 16:57
  there's a periodical called Small Farms Journal, Small
• 17:02
  Farmers Journal, and it's mainly draft power horse or oxen or
• 17:07
  whatever. So I was living in the city
• 17:10
  reading these beautiful idyllic stories of farming the horses.
• 17:16
  And I found this letter to the editor and it was from someone
• 17:18
  in the dowels. And so I just got the phone book
• 17:20
  out and I called every one of the dowels with that last name
• 17:22
  until I found them. A phone book.
• 17:25
  It's this. It's this book that used to get
• 17:28
  left at your house with a list of phone numbers of everyone in
• 17:31
  your community. It's a whole thing.
• 17:32
  You should Google it. Yeah, yeah.
• 17:35
  And I found them and I said, hey, I really want to learn.
• 17:37
  And they said sure, come on out. So I did that, and then I ended
• 17:41
  up finding someone else in Parkdale, which is where I live
• 17:44
  now. Who?
• 17:45
  Who? Worked horses.
• 17:48
  So it was kind of all these things coming together.
• 17:50
  I was getting into that. We were starting the farm here
• 17:52
  and then it wasn't until we had our own place, our own property,
• 17:56
  that I was able to buy a team of horses and start doing it.
• 18:00
  Is there any overlap in the work you do on the farm and the work
• 18:05
  you do here where you're working with plants and animals and your
• 18:09
  partner at home and then here is more of a a people based
• 18:13
  business? Do you think the lessons that
• 18:16
  you learn in one that you take to the other?
• 18:18
  I mean, it's kind of a broad question.
• 18:20
  I apologize, but. Yeah, I think the overarching,
• 18:26
  maybe my overarching passion is community.
• 18:29
  And I think so we got married in 2009, We moved to Portland, my
• 18:33
  wife finished school there, and then we moved back.
• 18:36
  And part of being away from here was realizing how much community
• 18:40
  really mattered to me. And so when we moved back, I
• 18:44
  think there was a there was a big driving.
• 18:49
  I was kind of trying to figure out like any summer plans, kind
• 18:54
  of like personal philosophy, I guess, and like what I want out
• 18:56
  of life. And one of the things that I
• 18:59
  really discovered was my love and need for community.
• 19:03
  So I think the coffee shop was something, like I said, I've
• 19:07
  done since I was 18 and even in high school hung out at coffee
• 19:10
  shops. So there's always been a
• 19:12
  community element of coffee shops that I've always really
• 19:17
  liked and that's one of the reasons I've done it for.
• 19:19
  So farming for me was also community based.
• 19:25
  So I didn't want to grow food, a commodity crop and then just
• 19:29
  ship it off somewhere. I wanted to sell it to people I
• 19:31
  knew I wanted to sell it in the community.
• 19:33
  So that was a big piece of it too, was the farm as part of the
• 19:38
  community, not just me farming, growing food and then shipping
• 19:42
  it to who knows where. So I, I think why I like both of
• 19:45
  them is that farming can feel somewhat isolating at times,
• 19:50
  although we do have a crew now, but I think you're right there
• 19:55
  is kind of like you're working by yourself or with someone else
• 19:58
  and that's kind of it. And so coming down to town and
• 20:03
  like being at the coffee shop kind of scratches that itch for
• 20:07
  like social. But I think both of them are
• 20:10
  kind of under my, my kind of life philosophy of, of
• 20:15
  community. Was it harder to build community
• 20:18
  when he went to? Portland in Portland.
• 20:21
  Yeah, I mean. I think we realized shortly
• 20:25
  after we moved there that we weren't going to stay there.
• 20:28
  So that also maybe was a thing. We never really got involved in
• 20:32
  a community there. I tried a little bit, but it's
• 20:38
  hard. I mean, it's hard in a big city
• 20:39
  to find people. I'm going through a move right
• 20:41
  now and that's one of the things that we, we're leaving a
• 20:45
  community that we've built over 12 years.
• 20:47
  Yeah. Work community, person
• 20:49
  community, coffee shop community.
• 20:52
  And that's, I think that's much scarier than the idea of picking
• 20:56
  up and moving is. Yeah, we're moving to a place
• 20:59
  where we don't know anyone. We don't know if the vibe will
• 21:01
  be, you know, our vibe. And I am fairly comfortable
• 21:07
  being alone. But even, you know, you and I
• 21:11
  have like, a a need to be social.
• 21:13
  And sure, my life has a much bigger social meter than I do.
• 21:18
  And so it's, it's probably our biggest concern, I think more
• 21:21
  than anything else logistically. And some places are harder than
• 21:25
  others. Yeah.
• 21:26
  And if it's not your instinct to be, to be social, then it can
• 21:31
  be, it can be tough, which is why I think coffee shops are so
• 21:34
  important. You know, as we've been sitting
• 21:36
  in here, I don't know, a bunch of people have come in and out
• 21:39
  and of all different, you know, persuasions, so to speak.
• 21:44
  That word sounds weird when I say it.
• 21:46
  I don't think that's probably the right word to all.
• 21:47
  Different demographics. All different demographics.
• 21:50
  I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but you know, it
• 21:52
  just sounded weird coming out of my mouth.
• 21:56
  And so you're connecting with people and their story on a on a
• 21:59
  scale where this might be their only social experience for the
• 22:03
  day. That's a big responsibility.
• 22:06
  Where I'm going with this is after so many years in this
• 22:12
  industry and then in farming, do you think you are a better or a
• 22:17
  different leader now than you were that leader?
• 22:19
  Yeah. How is your leadership style
• 22:21
  changed? Because you seem very relaxed to
• 22:23
  me. You're not.
• 22:25
  Don't seem super anxious about what's going on around you like
• 22:28
  you seem to trust your team. Yeah, that's probably changed.
• 22:32
  Yeah, I definitely when I took over the coffee shop, I was, I
• 22:39
  definitely was more anxious about everything.
• 22:44
  I remember someone calling and complaining about their maybe
• 22:50
  their Chai and I remember they didn't like it for some reason.
• 22:57
  I don't I don't remember the details now but I asked them.
• 23:01
  I said I will bring you new drinks and I drove new drinks to
• 23:04
  their house and delivered them because I really was worried.
• 23:07
  About. Pleasing everyone you know.
• 23:14
  And I think since then, yeah, I have a lot of trust in my staff.
• 23:19
  We have AI worked really hard to have a good reputation for
• 23:23
  quality both in coffee and customer service.
• 23:27
  But I think I've I've discovered or I've come to the conclusion
• 23:32
  that you're just never going to please everyone.
• 23:35
  Yeah. And so as long as I know we did
• 23:38
  a good job and we, I don't stress the little stuff anymore,
• 23:43
  like if someone's not happy with us for some reason, obviously we
• 23:47
  do a good job. Oh, can we, can we fix it?
• 23:50
  Whatever. But I don't sleep over it
• 23:52
  anymore. There's a certain people you're
• 23:56
  not going to ever please. And there's also certain cafes
• 23:59
  that are just not your spot. Yeah.
• 24:01
  And there's different personalities.
• 24:03
  And yes, you know, someone has an off day and might be a little
• 24:09
  rude to a customer. I'm going to apologize, of
• 24:11
  course. But I'm also like, we just might
• 24:14
  not be your shop, you know, if that happens a lot, like maybe
• 24:18
  it's you. That's my fear.
• 24:22
  You know, maybe it's the customer and our friend Michael,
• 24:27
  who was just here. Yeah, he had a shop.
• 24:29
  And Michael, when he first started, was a lot like me.
• 24:33
  When I took over this shop, he was really worried about making
• 24:37
  sure everyone was happy. And he was great at it.
• 24:39
  And one of the reasons I liked not being downtown was that we
• 24:44
  didn't have the same high, high needs, needy type of customers
• 24:51
  that really needed to make a stink about everything and
• 24:54
  wanted to be appeased. We have a very small shop, like
• 24:58
  I've said, and it kind of it almost weeds people out because
• 25:04
  everyone can hear you in this shop.
• 25:06
  Like if you, if you speak up, everyone in the shop can hear
• 25:08
  you and they're all going to look at you.
• 25:12
  So it kind of it kind of weeds out the assholes.
• 25:16
  As far as leadership, which is your question I think that I've
• 25:24
  landed on. Obviously you want to lead by
• 25:30
  example. I think all of my best bosses
• 25:32
  did that. I talked about Michael.
• 25:34
  Yeah, he was really good at hospitality.
• 25:39
  So we learned from our if we have good bosses or even bad
• 25:43
  bosses that have maybe you learn from their mistakes or maybe
• 25:46
  they have good attributes that you learn from all the all the
• 25:52
  bosses that I've had that that I've liked always led by
• 25:56
  example. That was I think that's the best
• 25:59
  way to lead. And because I'm not here as
• 26:03
  much, there's going to be a little less example that I can
• 26:05
  lead with. But trying to pass down your
• 26:13
  like your ethics and your culture to to your employees is
• 26:18
  really important. And everyone does that in
• 26:19
  different ways. I've kind of come to the
• 26:24
  conclusion that once you find good people, I want to work as
• 26:28
  hard as I can to keep them. And I think to me, that's how
• 26:33
  leadership is about like enabling your staff.
• 26:42
  Like what can I do for you guys? Like what do you guys need?
• 26:46
  How can I make you happy? And so finding good people and
• 26:50
  then keeping them. Sure.
• 26:52
  Is to me is like maybe the biggest thing that I've learned.
• 26:56
  As a as a manager for other people, I've always tried to
• 27:00
  fight for employees because I found that it made my job so
• 27:03
  much easier because they would they would invest them because
• 27:06
  they felt that they were being appreciated.
• 27:11
  I would also think that because of your farming experience, you
• 27:16
  start to think of things maybe on a longer timeline.
• 27:19
  And coffee is so I love the idea that you sit with a cup of
• 27:23
  coffee, but it's a quick transactional experience.
• 27:26
  And so you kind of have both of those worlds competing with each
• 27:29
  other at all times. And I think maybe from the
• 27:33
  outside I'm going, I wonder how that might make it easier to do
• 27:37
  the other one because you realize from the farming side,
• 27:41
  what happens today isn't the end of the story.
• 27:44
  And from the coffee side, we're getting this reinforcement day
• 27:47
  after day of of what we're. Doing yeah.
• 27:50
  And I think too just having the experience of like being in
• 27:59
  somewhere for a long time, it gives you that I think
• 28:03
  perspective like that long term perspective as well.
• 28:06
  So like, like I've, I've been here almost 18 years of the
• 28:09
  shot, yeah, which sounds wild, almost half my life.
• 28:15
  So I think that gives you kind of a little more long term
• 28:17
  perspective. The time seems to be going by
• 28:24
  really fast. You know, when I look back at
• 28:26
  the things that I've done, someone yesterday mentioned
• 28:29
  like, oh, you seem to have had a really interesting career.
• 28:32
  And it's like, yeah, but it's been over 25 years.
• 28:36
  I mean, I've been working since I was like 13.
• 28:38
  Yeah. And so even younger, if you
• 28:42
  don't tell the, you know, health department or the local airport,
• 28:45
  but over that time, you just naturally have all these
• 28:49
  different experiences that lead into like you finding your way,
• 28:53
  hopefully, right? Which is what I feel like
• 28:58
  sitting here, like, Oh yeah, this seems like it's a place
• 29:00
  that's lived in and right worn and the the excess has been
• 29:04
  stripped away. Yeah, yeah.
• 29:07
  I think that's a good way to put it, yeah.
• 29:11
  I have all these questions that I wrote down and I probably
• 29:14
  should ask some of them, sure, But I think we we knocked out
• 29:18
  most of it. So I have two, two last
• 29:21
  important questions. The first one is if you were out
• 29:27
  and about and you stopped at someone else's coffee shop on
• 29:30
  the road. Yeah.
• 29:30
  What are you going to order? Well, unfortunately my body does
• 29:37
  not like caffeine anymore, which is kind of the irony of my
• 29:42
  coffee profession is that I can't drink a whole lot of
• 29:46
  caffeine. So it's probably going to be
• 29:47
  something to decaf a lot of. It's going to depend on the
• 29:51
  shop. So when I walk in, I'm going to
• 29:53
  try to read the room a little bit and I'm going to look at
• 29:56
  their machine, see what they have.
• 29:58
  I'm going to look at their menu and see what they have.
• 30:02
  If it's a place that I think is pretty serious about coffee, I'm
• 30:05
  probably just going to get like a small latte or cappuccino.
• 30:11
  If it's a place that, you know, maybe not too nerdy about
• 30:17
  coffee, then I might, I might get like a mocha, something to
• 30:22
  sweeten up the the espresso a little bit if it's not very
• 30:24
  good, but it's probably going to be something decaf.
• 30:29
  You know, now is the time. Decaf is having a moment.
• 30:32
  It's good. There's some incredible Decaf
• 30:34
  coffees outside. It was the I mean, you remember
• 30:36
  those stickers that said death before decaf or there's all
• 30:39
  these like. Yeah, that was you.
• 30:43
  I don't think I was ever like that.
• 30:45
  I I would laugh. At it, I saw a photo of you with
• 30:47
  your hair kind of slicked over and I think an earring.
• 30:50
  Like, very Blink 182 punk. Page Yeah, well, that was a
• 30:53
  joke. That picture was a joke because
• 30:56
  I was getting my hair cut. My brother still cuts my hair,
• 31:00
  and I would cut it every two years, so it would be really
• 31:02
  long. So that picture I think, was a
• 31:04
  joke. But I definitely was a punk
• 31:06
  rocker. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:08
  I went to Summerfest. Yeah.
• 31:09
  Oh, no, I was in it, man. I I wanted to be a rock star for
• 31:13
  sure. Yeah, still still play music,
• 31:16
  but not punk rock anymore, although that would be fun.
• 31:19
  I thought about that. If anyone's watching that's in a
• 31:23
  band, I have this dream of performing one song live on
• 31:26
  stage. I should warn you now that I
• 31:29
  sing like my grandfather, and what that means is that people
• 31:32
  leave the pews around in that church.
• 31:36
  So then my last question is if you could leave us with any
• 31:38
  piece of advice you've collected along the way that has worked
• 31:42
  for you or meant something to you.
• 31:45
  I always find that I collect information from the old timers,
• 31:48
  but not saying that's you, but you mentioned old timers
• 31:52
  earlier. Yeah, well, I'm kind of an old
• 31:53
  timer now. Like business wisdom or sure?
• 32:01
  Business or just generally something that you've heard
• 32:04
  along the way that you think, yeah, that made sense to me and
• 32:07
  I've applied it in my life. I'm so bad at that one liners.
• 32:15
  Doesn't have to be a one liner. You know one of your employees
• 32:19
  is going through a moment Well, you know.
• 32:21
  What sort of advice would you offer about life?
• 32:29
  I mean, I think business advice, I'll repeat what I said, which
• 32:32
  is find good people to work for you or once you find good people
• 32:39
  work for you, keep them happy. To me, like as a if you are
• 32:44
  managing people, if you have employees, that would be my best
• 32:48
  bit of advice. Yeah.
• 32:52
  I think as philosophy for the coffee shop, this isn't going to
• 32:57
  be a one liner. What I tell all my staff when I
• 33:00
  hire them. As I say, there's 2 ends of the
• 33:03
  spectrum with the service industry.
• 33:07
  You have personability and you have professionalism, and a lot
• 33:11
  of people tend to go one way or the other.
• 33:13
  Like some people are really professional, good at their job,
• 33:16
  but they're not good at. Talking with people.
• 33:20
  And then you have people who are really social, really
• 33:22
  interactive, but they're not good at focusing and, like,
• 33:25
  taking their craft serious. Like, they're too, you know?
• 33:30
  And I think coffee shops are that way, too.
• 33:32
  Or if you go to a big city, they may have the best coffee in the
• 33:34
  world, but they're all jerks. Yeah.
• 33:36
  Or they're just cold. It doesn't have to be jerks.
• 33:38
  They're just cold. Sure.
• 33:40
  And you go to a small, small town, usually the places that
• 33:43
  are busy or places that are warm, good customer service,
• 33:46
  everyone knows each other, but maybe they're not super worried
• 33:51
  about their quality of their products, right.
• 33:54
  And in a, in a specialized way like specialty coffee.
• 34:00
  So I always tell my staff what I want here at our shop is try to
• 34:06
  do both. And so if you're someone who is
• 34:11
  more personable, try to work on your professionalism, either
• 34:16
  with customer service or, and with your craft, or if you're
• 34:19
  someone who's like, oh, I really get into coffee and how to make
• 34:23
  coffee and yeah, all the extraction stuff.
• 34:26
  And I, I'm a nerd. I'm like, great, you need to
• 34:29
  work on your personality skills. Everyone loves hearing that work
• 34:33
  on your personality. You're great except for your
• 34:36
  whole personality. Work on your personal
• 34:40
  interaction skills and you know, when you are, when you're a
• 34:46
  customer service person, you're, you're acting in a way.
• 34:49
  I mean, I don't want people to be fake, but you're also on.
• 34:54
  Yeah. Like you're that idea of being
• 34:56
  on. You're on.
• 34:56
  Yeah, you got to be. You are here in service.
• 35:01
  So your own stuff is not the most important thing in that
• 35:05
  moment. And I want our coffee shop to be
• 35:09
  good at both of those things. Yeah, to be good customer
• 35:12
  service, warm. First of all, we get to know our
• 35:15
  customers, briefs us, have conversations with our
• 35:18
  customers, and we also take our coffee seriously.
• 35:26
  I want quality drinks. I want quality professional
• 35:30
  interactions as well. So that's kind of my over.
• 35:37
  That's kind of my goal as a shot.
• 35:39
  It's trying to provide both of those things.
• 35:41
  And I think maybe that's out of my own personality.
• 35:44
  I'm very social. I like my relationships with
• 35:47
  people. Like I said, it's it's one of
• 35:50
  maybe the most important reason I'm still doing coffee.
• 35:53
  But I also love nerding out and getting really good at latte
• 35:57
  yard, or paying really good attention to the temperature of
• 36:00
  our milk or how the shots are pulling.
• 36:02
  Or, you know, all the nerdy stuff too.
• 36:04
  Did you, I saw you with a latte earlier or something?
• 36:08
  Did it have a rainbow in it? Was that did you try to do that?
• 36:11
  That was McKenzie. McKenzie.
• 36:13
  She, she's a great latte artist. She loves being creative, so
• 36:18
  she'll draw. She can do Freeport Rosettas
• 36:21
  really nicely, or she can draw a puppy dog in your latte.
• 36:24
  That's amazing. I was really good at clouds for
• 36:26
  a long time. A lot of clouds in my latte.
• 36:29
  Speaking of coffee, I need another one.
• 36:33
  Ben, thank you so much for the time and for joining Coffee
• 36:36
  People Podcast. If you're out there watching,
• 36:40
  this show is going to be out on all the platforms.
• 36:42
  You can just search for Coffee People Podcast.
• 36:45
  Check out our sponsors website, rostar.com.
• 36:48
  Without them, we probably wouldn't be doing this show on
• 36:50
  location. So we really appreciate it.
• 36:52
  Or head to Roast West. Coast.
• 36:54
  Dot com which is our website. Our newsletter comes out every
• 36:57
  week and you get caught up on all of the episodes. 10 speed
• 37:01
  coffee bar in Hood River. There should be a stop.
• 37:06
  One thing I love about them is their social media is very
• 37:09
  random and very rare, which I appreciate.
• 37:12
  Yeah, we don't. Yeah, it's.
• 37:14
  Better just to come in. And we don't chase the the.
• 37:20
  The likes. And the Yeah, what's the word
• 37:22
  that everyone uses for the? I don't know.
• 37:24
  That's my problem is I don't know that's why the show is.
• 37:27
  We'll see. You're right on board of those,
• 37:28
  yeah. I'm all in.
• 37:30
  Thank you so much. Yeah.
• 37:31
  Thanks, Ryan. Glad to have you.
• 37:34
  Where should I get what should I get as a beer today at Double?
• 38:15
  The. Our flow and our.
• 38:37
  Yeah, everything might be a. Little wacky, you know.
• 38:39
  Yeah, that's all right. So you know you might get lucky
• 38:42
  and not have to pay for a while. We'll buy a few extra anyway
• 38:46
  then. Danny.
• 38:53
  People walk in the back door and you don't see them.
• 38:56
  That's a very restaurant, hospitality management ownership
• 39:00
  thing that just happened there. Like, hey guys, I've been there.
• 39:05
  I've done that.