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MTM- What's the Problem with IVF? · More Than Medicine

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hosted by author and physician Dr.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Robert Jackson and his wife Carlotta and daughter Annabella.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: So listen up because the doctor is dead.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the country doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, some years ago, Buck and Beulame had been seeking for more than six months to obtain or achieve a pregnancy.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: They had been seeing me for infertility.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: They had tried for a year to conceive but had failed.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: They sought my advice and we had tried a hormone treatment that didn't help.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Buck's semen analysis was AOK.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: So now they were in my office asking about a referral for in vitro fertilization.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Jackson, we've tried all the routine things.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Don't you think it's time for us to go see a fertility specialist?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And consider IVF.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Ask you Beulemay.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Beulemay worked as a church secretary at a mid-sized Baptist church in our county.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Buck sold computers at a big box retail outlet.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: They looked at each other anxiously and then they looked back at me.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: I responded, perhaps, but there are some things about IVF you need to know before you venture down that road too far.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Buck looked at me sideways and asked like what?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well like the cost.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Your insurance may not cover all the expenses, and you could be looking at thousands of dollars out of pocket.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: They looked at each other wide eyed.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Secondly, there are moral considerations because typically fifteen to sixteen eggs will be fertilized, creating fifteen to sixteen brand new human beings.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: All of them will be your children, but only two to four will be implanted into your uterus.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want four children at one time?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Beula May looked stunned and shook her head slowly in the negative.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think so.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: So what happens to the unwanted extra babies?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: They looked at each other and then at me.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they are selectively reduced, which is the medical term for aborted.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Two or three of your babies are intentionally aborted.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you can have one baby.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: What happens to the other eleven to twelve babies?
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: I remind you, those are your children.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: They are then donated to medical research or placed in cryo preservation.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: That means frozen.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: I paused at this point to let all of this information sink in, at which point tears began to flow down Beula May's face, which had become bright red and swollen.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: She clenched her fist, and she turned to Buck, and she almost shouted at him He's lying.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Not a word of that is true.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Don't believe him.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Whereupon she stood up, whirled around, opened the exam room door, and stormed out.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Buck looked at the floor, then he looked at me, and he said, She really had her heart set on that IVF procedure.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: I responded as kindly as I could.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Buck, you're a Christian man.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Do not sacrifice your Christian convictions on the altar of future childbearing.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: He stared at me for a few moments, and I could see the wheels turning in his head.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Then he said hesitantly, I understand.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Doctor, please pray for us.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Then he slowly stood and followed his wife out the door.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: So what is the truth about in vitro fertilization?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: The first test tube or in vitro baby was Louisa well Louise Brown.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: She was born in 1978, which was my second year of medical school, after her mother received in vitro fertilization treatments from Robert G.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Edwards, who received a Nobel Peace Prize in Physiology or Medicine.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: This occurred in Great Britain.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: The first IVF birth in the U.S.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: was in 1981, the year I graduated from medical school.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: In 2015, just 11 years ago, approximately 2% of births in the United States were by in vitro fertilization.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Here are the harsh statistics that I tried to explain to Beulemay.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: In the United Kingdom, Great Britain, between 1981 and 2011, over three million embryos were created in petri dishes through in vitro fertilization.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Around 50% or 1.45 million embryos were discarded in the course of treatment.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: 101,000 were given for research in destructive experiments.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: And another 25% or 764,000 were frozen or cryopreserved for later use.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: This calculated to 32 embryos being created for every one live birth.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: There are an estimated 1.8 million cryopreserved, cryo incarcerated embryos worldwide.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that number increases by 18% each year.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: I consider that this is an unethical and unjust procedure to create millions of cryoorphans and to destroy so many others just to create biological children for idol worshiping parents.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now why do I say idol worshiping?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because these parents are determined regardless of the cost, regardless of the price, and regardless of the number of embryos that are destroyed or killed to have their own personal biologic children.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So how does IVS or assisted reproductive technology art for short, actually work?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: Without being too technical, it goes like this.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: An infertile female patient takes two weeks of hormonal therapy, hormonal birth control, starting on day two or three of her menstrual cycle.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Next follows ten to twelve days of preparation during which the patient receives hormone injections designed to stimulate her ovaries to produce as many eggs as possible.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: At the proper time, known as day zero, she will be triggered hormonally for egg retrieval.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now we are twenty four to twenty seven days into the process.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: The next stage involves egg retrieval, fertilization, and culture.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: On day zero, eggs are retrieved from the woman, or from a fresh donor, or from donor eggs from a freezer.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Commonly, the ideal and average number of eggs retrieved is fifteen per cycle.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: It is expected that 75% of the collected eggs will be mature enough to fertilize.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: How are the eggs then fertilized?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: One of two ways.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: First is ICSI, or intracytoplasmic sperm injection, which injects a single sperm into a single egg.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: This obviously requires a microscope, specialized instruments, and skill by the technician.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: This is a very successful technique and is used by ninety percent of the time by most clinics.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: Or standard insemination.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: This occurs in a glass petri dish, hence the name in vitro or in glass fertilization.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: On day one to three, sixteen to eighteen hours after sperm is introduced, the unfertilized eggs are removed.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: The fertilized eggs, which are now distinct human beings with their own unique DNA, are sorted between normal and abnormal embryos.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: The abnormal embryos are discarded.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Did you hear what I said?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: The abnormal embryos are discarded.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Statistically, 75% of mature eggs fertilize and become normal embryos.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: 25% become abnormal embryos that are discarded.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: That means 25% of these brand new human beings are discarded.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: On day three to four, the remaining embryos are tested for growth and chromosomal abnormalities.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: Only embryos with a high morphology, high morphology grade, and the highest potential for implantation will be included in the embryo transfer or cryo preservation process.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Only fifty percent qualify.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: The rest are, you guessed it, discarded.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: On day five to six, rather than immediately transferring the fresh embryo to the mother's uterus as one might suppose, the embryos are frozen for two reasons.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: First, because frozen embryo transfer has a better success rate than fresh embryo transfer.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: And secondly, this allows for testing of embryos for genetic disorders.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Pre-implantation genetic testing or non invasive prenatal testing in IPT, much to the dismay of many parents that are involved in the IVF process.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: The New York Times reported in January of 2022 that 85% of prenatal blood tests for rare chromosomal disorders provided false positive results.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Did you hear that?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: 85% of prenatal blood tests for rare chromosomal disorders provided false positive results to expectant mothers.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: On average, only fifteen out of eighty-five tests came back with accurate information on their child's genetic makeup, potentially leading many mothers to abort perfectly healthy, perfectly normal children.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I clearly remember when that happened because when that information came out, it really, really rocked the medical community.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: On day six through thirteen, the genetic testing takes about one week, and after this week, the genetically abnormal embryos are, you guessed it, discarded, or given over to scientific research, which ultimately ends in the destruction of those embryos.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: The healthy embryos are then cryopreserved for five to seven weeks, while the mother's uterus is hormonally prepared to receive the frozen embryo transfer, during which one to two embryos will be transferred.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Ten days later, a pregnancy test will be performed to determine success or failure.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know what you're asking, and I know what you're thinking.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: What about the leftover embryos?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: There is no universally accepted protocol for dealing with supernumerary embryos or the leftover babies.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Remember, these are unique human beings.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Many couples abandon their embryos, leaving it to the clinic to either discard the embryos or donate them to destruction via scientific research or provide a religious burial service.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Or number four, too often they are abandoned.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Their abandoned babies are left in a cryo preserved prison for indefinite times and forgotten.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: These babies are called snowflakes.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Once our patient has achieved a pregnancy, the uterus of in vitro fertilization will become more morally, well I should say the waters of in vitro fertilization will become more morally murky and ethically troubling, as we will see.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: So what if a woman becomes pregnant with multiple embryos implanted in her uterus?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, two to four babies growing at once in a mother's womb can be dangerous to mothers and babies.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: In vitro fertilization clinics will recommend selective reduction, which is medical speak for aborting the extra fetuses to reduce risk to mom and babies.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: But what about the risk to those selectively reduced?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we understand the risk to those selectively reduced.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: It will terminate their lives.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's no law in the US that establishes the legal status of those embryonic human beings, and therefore no limits on discarding extra embryos, donating them to science, selectively reducing unwanted extras, or freezing them perpetually.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Just because a technology is available doesn't mean that it is safe or morally acceptable.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: We learned that from the mRNA template COVID technology, didn't we?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: The CDC and the American College of Obstetrician and Golecologist admitted that in vitro fertilization, when compared to natural pregnancy, singleton assisted reproductive technology pregnancies have an increased risk of preterm delivery, low birth rate, very low birth weight, small for gestational age, and perinatal mortality.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: It also has a eight times more frequent rate of stillbirth compared to pregnancies than a natural occurring pregnancy.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Let me say that again because I think I was confusing there.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Assisted reproductive technology has an eight times more frequent rate of stillbirth than naturally occurring pregnancies.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: More than that, there's a 40% higher risk of birth defects with in vitro fertilization, such as cleft palate, cleft lip, and congenital heart defects.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: There have also been disastrous decisions and accidents associated with in vitro fertilization.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: For example, freezer malfunctions.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: At one point in time, more than 2,000 embryos were destroyed when a Cleveland, Ohio clinic freezer malfunctioned.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Think about that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: 2,000 embryos, 2,000 unborn babies were destroyed when a Cleveland, Ohio clinic freezer malfunctioned.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: That number rivals the number of deaths in many natural disasters.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And the World Trade Center bombing.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it didn't even make the evening news.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's a practice called social sexing, where couples test for their baby's sex and reduce or abort the undesired sex.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's called social sexing.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Now you understand the many moral and ethical issues that surround in vitro fertilization and why I would warn Buck and Beulamet.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Next week, we're going to discuss the whole issue from a biblical perspective and understand how to love our in vitro fertilized neighbor.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're listening to More Than Medicine.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Dr.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Robert Jackson.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you'll come back next week as we discuss it a little more thoroughly from the biblical perspective.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Until then, remember Jesus loves you and your doctor loves you.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And until next week, I pray that the Lord will bless you real good.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to this discussion of More than Medicine for more information about the practice of the ministry.