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Inside Adolescent Addiction Treatment: How ARCH Harpeth and ARCH Ridgeview Serve Teens Differently · Conversations with Cumberland Heights

0:00
Welcome to the show. Glad you're here.
0:03
I've been really excited about this episode for a while.
0:06
Thank you both for doing this.
0:07
Agreeing to do this.
0:09
So as we get started, introduce yourselves.
0:14
Tell us what you do, where you work.
0:17
How long you been here,
0:19
ladies?
0:20
First year.
0:21
All right.
0:22
I'm Sherry Vautier here.
0:24
I am the clinical coordinator of the girls program.
0:28
I have a program, ARCH Ridgeview Girls Academy.
0:32
There we go.
0:33
ARCH Academy.
0:34
The ARCH Ridgeview girls program.
0:39
This past April,
0:42
we've been open for a year, so that was exciting to get a year under us.
0:46
I have been with Cumberland Heights almost 13 years.
0:51
I actually started out in the kitchen here, but I don't know that I did,
0:57
I did, I I've worked almost
0:58
every position on the campus.
1:03
Did you get an education along the way?
1:04
I did, I did I went back to school, got my degree to be a counselor.
1:08
Also got my late back to, So, yeah,
1:12
Cumberland High's fostered all of that,
1:15
you know that. Did you know that?
1:17
I did all because she said it once before, like another thing we were doing,
1:21
and I was like, what?
1:22
I was like, she's like, that's awesome.
1:23
Yeah, that's really cool.
1:26
Who are you, sir?
1:26
I am William Branson, the clinical director for our boys program.
1:32
Our Harpeth campus
1:35
arch at Cumberland Heights.
1:37
I have been with the youth program.
1:42
Oh, yes. Way
1:45
nine years.
1:48
It's easy.
1:48
Remember, my son was born, like two weeks after
1:50
I started working in these programs.
1:52
I just use that as a barometer.
1:54
But I did, I worked with, okay.
1:58
And, when I was an intern for a year before I started in the youth program,
2:04
you know, that was with, this program when she was the relapse counselor.
2:08
So there's been a little bit of evolution that.
2:11
Come on.
2:11
As for those that know nothing about us, right?
2:13
We used to treat adolescents here at our River road headquarters
2:17
campus from about 85 to, 2020.
2:21
There was an interruption there with girls,
2:24
but then the boys moved to their own campus just down the road,
2:28
about 20 minutes from here, officially, I think, in Kingston Springs.
2:31
Yeah.
2:32
And the girls officially in Pilgrim.
2:35
Although what's the distance? Two miles.
2:40
I go by by minutes.
2:41
About five minutes.
2:42
Yeah, yeah.
2:43
So, probably maybe a mile,
2:47
maybe less than a mile by as the crow flies.
2:50
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
2:51
So I love any chance to use that, description.
2:56
I am curious.
3:00
For you, cherry, it's been a year.
3:04
What have you learned?
3:05
What has your staff learned?
3:08
Because we've never done a girls campus like this broken out.
3:11
And we had to bring the program back.
3:15
I think for me, I've learned
3:17
that I learned something new every day,
3:20
that it's always changing.
3:22
You know, you walk in, you've got an agenda for that morning,
3:26
you walk in and it is totally different.
3:28
By the end of the day.
3:30
I think as far as staff, because a lot of my staff
3:32
was working on the boys campus, they kind of trained over there
3:35
because our campuses are very similar in the programing and all of that.
3:40
So they train there.
3:41
So when we came over to the girls,
3:42
they learned real quick that girls are different.
3:45
They have more emotions.
3:48
They are just
3:51
I want to say all girls because I've seen some boys
3:54
over there too, that, you know, show their emotions the same.
3:57
But I think for my staff, it's just learning how to relate
4:02
because most of my staff on the girls campus are girls, are female women.
4:07
We, you know, we do that for a reason.
4:09
Just so the girls from more comfortable.
4:11
But yeah, they,
4:15
they, they're just learn that it's it it.
4:20
It takes a lot more boundaries to
4:22
then I think, than with the boys.
4:24
And one of the reason why I say that is because even for me,
4:27
because I'm, I'm a mom of three daughters.
4:30
So it's like walking sometimes it's like walking
4:32
into my house back when they were all at home, you know, you get the
4:37
the arguments, the disagreements, the,
4:39
you know, being stuck in the same room, just the same stuff that they, you know,
4:42
taking somebody's clothes, that kind of stuff.
4:45
So it's just learning to not be the mom.
4:49
It's learning to be the therapist or learning to be the clinical coordinator.
4:53
So that to me, that's been a learning for me.
4:58
So as you guys have been doing this together, because you were at the boys
5:03
in another role, I believe, as a family counselor. Yes.
5:07
For since we were you there when we opened
5:10
that campus in 2020 or you just moved over?
5:13
I think you got you guys come over and what was it?
5:15
It was April 1st.
5:16
April 1st, 2020.
5:17
So I came over in like June. Okay. Okay.
5:21
Yeah, I was I was just as you were talking, I was both of you
5:25
all have this wealth of experience with the girls now and boys.
5:29
And when we say boys and girls, right.
5:31
It's 13 to 17 for 14.
5:35
Yeah.
5:36
13 is a case by case. Yes.
5:38
Talk about that before we go any further.
5:41
Well, I mean,
5:43
everything is really case by case.
5:46
Honestly, talk about this.
5:47
Yeah, well,
5:50
it's I mean, we could talk about this all day.
5:52
But but it it everyone is a case by case.
5:55
You know, when they come in,
5:57
you go through the admissions process,
5:58
we get all the background information on you,
6:01
and then depending on how that goes, that information,
6:05
they can go to the executive director, myself, medical team.
6:09
Sherry, I see all of hers as well, because we want to make sure
6:12
that the person that's coming in is a fit for us.
6:17
One of the things I love about arch is that we are a nonprofit,
6:21
and it's not just fill beds, it's make sure who's coming to us.
6:26
We can help the rent.
6:28
Yeah.
6:29
So is that our programing and the milieu?
6:33
Yeah.
6:35
So what does that mean when I say that for somebody
6:37
that has no idea I'm a parent, so
6:43
will this will this child benefit from our programing?
6:46
You know, so so which is the most obvious part of that answer
6:50
is what we do something that's going to be for this kid.
6:52
If not, let's find somewhere else.
6:56
Milieu wise, how are.
6:59
So we have two main cabins and then another for the cabin,
7:03
but how how are those cabin dynamic,
7:06
that cabin dynamics at the moment?
7:10
And depending on that, where does this resident
7:13
possible resident, you know, fit
7:17
possibly going into either of those
7:19
will all this be beneficial for that
7:23
possible young man coming in or our lady.
7:27
Yeah.
7:27
And that's the same with ours except ours is one cabin.
7:31
So you know we gotta look at depending on if we're getting full you know,
7:35
and we would look at, would this resident be able to come in and fill.
7:41
Because the main thing about ours is to feel safe,
7:43
like we want our kids to feel safe and comfortable.
7:45
If you're not safe and comfortable, you're not going to grow.
7:48
And you know, we want them to grow and learn as they're there.
7:50
So feeling safe is important. Feeling comfortable is important.
7:53
So just making sure that, you know, we can accommodate what they need,
7:58
whether that's with their school, you know, different variations of,
8:03
you know, what they may need for school
8:05
if we can accommodate, like, what they might need
8:07
for the treatment work, that kind of stuff.
8:09
So, yeah, just making sure that they fit all around.
8:12
Yeah.
8:13
Because we operate all operate, accredited high schools. Yep.
8:16
And so residents, as you call them,
8:19
that are still in grade school, can continue in that work.
8:22
And there's a lot of
8:24
as you kind of alluded to, there's a lot that goes into that,
8:27
you know, in terms of the transcripts and, all that admin burden.
8:31
So I think that's something
8:32
that's really unique about our academy and what I'll provide. I'm
8:37
curious to, again,
8:40
for somebody that has no idea anything about adolescent care or treatment or what
8:44
you all do, like, who's an ideal resident and who might not be.
8:49
And you don't have to get
8:49
super granular, like just broad strokes, like severe mental illness.
8:53
As an example.
8:55
But I just curious how you guys would describe that.
9:00
For me,
9:01
what I'm looking at and our At the Boys program, it's interwoven with,
9:05
I see that really the mental health completely overtakes everything else.
9:10
Or maybe it would be to a level where they would be
9:14
really just focusing on that.
9:16
I'm also looking for
9:20
behavioral issues that aren't
9:23
tied with their use.
9:26
So it's different.
9:27
If someone was under the influence
9:30
and having behavioral issues like I, I fully expect that.
9:34
But if we're seeing things that jump off,
9:38
you know, the page that are just constant behavioral problems,
9:42
you know, across the board and that's, that's different.
9:45
And that's not who we are either.
9:48
What do you think you're.
9:50
Yeah, I agree that's you know, that's the same thing that we look for.
9:54
And you know, and sometimes you don't know the difference.
9:57
You know when they come into treatment and you know, three weeks
10:00
in, month in when they, you know, haven't had a substance.
10:04
And then that behavioral stuff really starts coming out.
10:07
And to me, when that becomes more prominent
10:10
and instead of the substitute, then we would look for a better fit
10:14
for them, you know, and when they get that then they can come back.
10:18
So it makes me think about like assessment
10:22
and the role that assessment plays, like because you have some interesting factors
10:25
that are, that are mirrored in the adult population,
10:28
but are also kind of distinct just because of development
10:31
and the development time period.
10:32
So do you guys,
10:36
because
10:37
sometimes I would imagine a resident
10:40
or a kid, 16 year old girl who might not and might
10:45
and maybe shouldn't receive some sort of diagnosis, right?
10:49
Like dissociative identity, whatever it might be, comes into your program.
10:54
And then, like you said, maybe you get a sense that there might be
10:57
some other underlying co-occurring condition.
11:00
How do you handle that?
11:02
Because I know it's not just
11:03
we refer out immediately like from an assessment perspective
11:08
and a treatment team support perspective, like what
11:10
would you all do to try to help that person?
11:14
First of all, we kind of we, we also have
11:17
outside providers that we work with that can come in and do assessments.
11:20
Once they hit that threshold.
11:22
Because again, like you said, you don't really know.
11:25
A lot of these kids were diagnosed in active addiction.
11:29
And it's kind of hard to get an accurate diagnosis during that time.
11:33
So we have people that can come in and they can do
11:35
assessments, they can do testing, they can figure out where that's at.
11:39
A lot of us, though, just as, you know,
11:42
counselors, it's things we've learned and, you know, different,
11:46
therapies that we use that it may be that it may work for this one,
11:50
but it won't work for that one.
11:51
So, you know, we try all the way around to see what would
11:54
what we could tailor to this particular resident.
11:58
You know, what may help them better.
12:00
Because again, bottom line, we need them to learn
12:03
and want them to walk away with something.
12:05
If we can just plant a seed for them, then that can grow.
12:08
So we, you know, we work together as a team,
12:12
the counselors, the teacher.
12:14
Because we will, you know, we have treatment team meetings,
12:16
so we bring them in.
12:18
We're looking at what that looks like as a whole person,
12:20
because they're not just their addiction or not just their mental health.
12:24
So we want to see them as a whole.
12:26
So we'll get the whole treatment team together and say, okay
12:29
everybody, we'll kind of put in what they see, and then we'll start
12:32
talking about solutions to how we can do that.
12:35
So what is the goal of treatment in Orange County?
12:38
What do you hope these kids experience?
12:42
What's the outcome? What's the rudder?
12:46
I want
12:46
them to have a positive experience overall.
12:50
Will it be rough at times?
12:52
Absolutely.
12:53
Why would it be rough?
12:55
Because there's change.
12:57
Yeah. Changes from. Yeah.
12:58
Yeah, I'm sure it is.
13:00
And, you know, we're taking away
13:05
a coping skills, that they've used, and that's how they know how to deal
13:10
with all things and are showing them new ways to do it.
13:15
And that's difficult.
13:17
And so I want to see what I want for them
13:21
is to see them kind of go through this curve, statistical curve.
13:25
You know, they come in as, you know, they're really as
13:28
they start to get escalated and you start to see this because
13:31
we're taking away that coping skill.
13:34
And as you start to see it kind of come back down to level out
13:36
as they start to implement these new tools that we give them.
13:40
And then finally we see them graduate, like, start to see them gather
13:43
all the things that they'll need so they can be successful when they leave.
13:49
That that's what I want to see.
13:50
I kind of want to see that whole kind of progression.
13:53
But what do they need?
13:57
As different for each kid,
13:59
I guess. You know what?
14:00
What gets me curious about this question is so our family is a part of,
14:05
legacy treatment provider that's grounded in 12 step recovery.
14:10
And ARCH Academy is treating
14:13
these kids, their kids.
14:15
They haven't even begun to really get into,
14:23
Adult development.
14:24
They're not hitting the adult Melbourne milestones yet.
14:26
So another thing, when we can talk about adults that come to treatment
14:29
are probably developmentally stunted, but these kids are like in process.
14:34
So the mold is being set, so to speak.
14:36
And so like, what are those treatment goals like is it abstinence.
14:41
Is it
14:42
you know, I'm sure that's what I'm get curious about how y'all think about it.
14:45
I don't want to tell you what I think.
14:47
So I've never ran a group over there.
14:48
So for me what what I see as a treatment goal
14:52
for, for our kiddos is I want to see them.
14:57
Yes, but be sober.
14:58
Sure.
14:59
And the thing is, with the 12 steps is the 12
15:02
steps are applicable across the board.
15:06
You could put anything you're struggling with in that first step, and you can
15:10
work all through the 12 steps so it doesn't have to just be a substance.
15:15
It could be anxiety.
15:17
It could be my parents, you know, it could be whatever that looks like.
15:20
So it's teaching them the tool of the 12 steps
15:23
and how to use that in everyday life, not just for their sobriety,
15:28
but for me, the goal for them is, you know, their kids, like you said,
15:30
they're kids.
15:31
When they come to us, they have no idea who they are.
15:34
They usually started using around 12, 13, you know, 14 years old.
15:38
So they don't really know who they are.
15:40
They don't know coping skills.
15:42
So we want to teach them the coping skills,
15:44
and I want them to learn who they are, like they're a person.
15:47
Who are you? What do you like?
15:49
What do you enjoy?
15:50
Like, just tell me your core values.
15:53
Like, who are you?
15:54
Because that's what they need to learn to be able to go out and be successful.
15:58
Yes, it's the staying sober part,
16:01
but if they can learn who they are, that's easier for them to do that as well.
16:06
Well-Said I.
16:10
Do these kids,
16:12
I know you'll follow up with them after they leave your program.
16:14
And y'all been working in these programs for many, many years.
16:18
Where do you see
16:20
what are maybe some common struggle points
16:24
when they get out of a program like ours, counseling and treatment altogether,
16:27
like, let's say after IAP two, if they get there, like what happens next?
16:32
Or do you see like that's that kind of
16:36
potential rub coming from the one I see the most read.
16:41
It's usually the sentence is not sticking to the plan.
16:45
I, I mean, honestly, you know, it's come up
16:48
from your field counselor days probably like I would imagine
16:52
it's everything like, yeah, I mean it's across the board.
16:56
It's so before you decide, you know, you discharge or graduate the program,
17:02
we do a reentry
17:03
contract and it covers everything.
17:07
I mean, you name it, it pretty much covers it.
17:10
You know, talks about boundaries.
17:13
What's going to happen if you keep those boundaries?
17:16
What are consequences if you don't keep the boundaries?
17:18
It's one of those things that they they need to keep looking at.
17:21
You know, I always would recommend, you know, once a month
17:24
it, you know, let it let it grow with how y'all are.
17:27
Y'all do it a family too.
17:28
Absolutely. Yeah. All together.
17:30
And where I would get the most phone calls
17:34
from parents of, like, things are working or struggling,
17:38
I would say, why are you following your is your contract
17:42
is you know, you know, we haven't been following that.
17:44
It's it provides an easy roadmap
17:48
because the kid hasn't been in the house for a while.
17:50
Things have changed.
17:52
And it's it's a nice way to kind of transition back in and keep things flowing.
17:59
Yeah I agree the family is a big part in that.
18:01
You know I when I did the family program
18:05
my biggest thing is telling the parents you got to work your recovery too.
18:08
It's not your kids recovery.
18:10
When they come home they'll work theirs.
18:11
You work yours.
18:13
And and it's following that.
18:14
But also with our kids again
18:16
you're falling in with especially like the 16, 17 year old.
18:19
They go back home, they go back to school, you know,
18:22
what do they do on the weekends?
18:23
Kids go out and they party.
18:25
And so for them it's like
18:27
they're like, I can't do that,
18:30
you know? But what if I just.
18:32
And I think after a while they kind of let that creep back in that
18:35
thought of, you know, well, it's just one it's not that big a deal.
18:39
So I think it's, it's that and it's, you know,
18:42
again, they're kids, you know, that's a hard part.
18:46
That is the social part that is hard for them.
18:49
What's a day in a life?
18:51
Our academy look like?
18:54
It is a different across your programs.
18:57
Similar.
18:59
Similar?
19:00
Yeah, I would say it would be because, I mean, we would be more like one cabin
19:05
where they juggle two, but, yeah, I mean, at ours,
19:08
we have two groups in the morning, we have lunch.
19:12
And then they well, their day starts around, I guess it's about 630
19:17
because they eat breakfast around 730, so they're usually up and going by 630,
19:21
you know, make their beds, make sure their cubbies tidy their room, breakfast.
19:26
And they have school in the afternoon for about three hours.
19:29
Then they also have rec time.
19:31
And for those that are listening to like this is a classroom.
19:34
Yes. Like sitting.
19:36
No. I'm like took out a lot of information like,
19:40
you know, like that's some that's like a preconceived notion
19:43
that maybe I've just heard like it is like it looks like a classroom.
19:46
Oh, absolutely.
19:47
The desks and chairs, you know that. So that's where classes have.
19:49
Yes. Posters on the walls.
19:51
White boards. Yes. That's the whole thing.
19:54
All of the posters. Frame posters.
19:56
Yeah, yeah.
19:57
And I mean, our teacher is amazing. She is so good with the kids.
20:00
She, you know, everything's done on apex.
20:03
Again, though, that depends on each kid.
20:05
Some kids come in and they stay with their school.
20:08
Just depends on what they can do.
20:09
Exciting to know we had our first graduate already from ARCH Ridgeview.
20:14
It was really good to see because she was not planning on finishing school.
20:19
But she, said our teacher. Yes.
20:23
I mean, that's everything like that.
20:25
Again, that opened the door to where she had already shut the door.
20:30
So, you know.
20:31
Yeah, it just, you know, it changed.
20:35
Why would she do that?
20:37
Probably our teacher.
20:39
She made learning fun for her again, because a lot of the kids,
20:42
when they get there, they've been struggling.
20:43
And they're usually way behind and they don't want to do it.
20:47
You know? I'm too far behind. I don't want to do this.
20:49
She sits down, takes the time with them, explains it.
20:52
Hey, we can catch up.
20:53
We can even go farther.
20:54
You know, you're going to be here at least this amount of time, you know?
20:58
And, you know, as far as staff, too,
20:59
we kind of just keep telling them how important that is.
21:02
And, you know, school opens the doors, you know,
21:06
and, you know, hey, it's three hours a day.
21:08
You're going to be here.
21:09
Yeah. You got to be here anyway. Yeah.
21:12
So what about the boys? Similar schedule.
21:15
Very similar.
21:16
Between getting, the they have a good morning community
21:21
that they do, chores,
21:24
morning chores, showers, all those kind of things.
21:28
Because, you know, they have to do their own laundry,
21:31
which is usually one of the things that parents call or like my child did.
21:34
What?
21:35
You know, he knew how to watch his clothes is like, yeah, you know, or
21:38
we teach them, and then, you know, breakfast and then it's group time.
21:45
And, you know, each day that the groups change,
21:50
well, it's, counselor led group, or, we have outside providers
21:56
who come in and do, equine, group pottery, music, drumming,
22:03
and then, of course, a lot of adventure.
22:06
So, with that, whether it's on our ropes gathering while we're on the ropes course
22:11
or on the river on a canoe trip or,
22:15
fly fishing, hiking,
22:20
I would have missed, like, a million
22:21
things, but, yeah, I mean, with all, all of those wonderful things,
22:25
because, you know, at this age, you have to do a lot of different things
22:28
or it's just not going to work, and keep them active.
22:33
And then it's lunch and then school and then.
22:36
Yeah.
22:37
And then or slipped between casualties.
22:41
I'm used to seeing the boys physically moving
22:44
throughout the day in a way like, let's move our bodies no more inside.
22:48
Let's take it. You know, it. Let's
22:51
let's play basketball.
22:52
That might turn into dodgeball or whatever. Yeah, let's.
22:55
Do you see that?
22:56
Or is that the same?
22:58
Apply for the girls population, like the physical movement or are there
23:02
other substitutes that go in that place
23:06
for them from a day to day perspective?
23:08
I mean, we have all the same adventure stuff that he has.
23:14
Kind of because but,
23:15
you know, they get to go outside more because they're in different buildings.
23:19
So for our girls, we may take them outside for group,
23:22
or if we have ten, 15 minutes between groups,
23:25
we have them outside and we have them walk in, you know, we walk down.
23:28
Of course, our two ponds on the property is amazing.
23:31
Yesterday I did one of my yeah,
23:33
I did one of my individual sessions with, one of our residents.
23:36
And I took it outside and we fed the fish
23:40
while doing our session.
23:41
You know, it just makes it easier.
23:42
They, you know, they open up more whenever
23:45
we're not sitting here staring at each other.
23:47
So, you know, we get out and do kind of things like that all the time,
23:50
you know what?
23:55
How popular are the groups with the residents?
23:57
I just have so many, you know.
23:59
Is it do they love the drumming?
24:01
And then the, the counselor led groups, or is it just depend on
24:04
kind of the milieu and the topic and the theme?
24:08
And I think it depends on a lot.
24:11
The resident.
24:12
Yeah.
24:12
I think it's a resident because I've had guys who it's hilarious.
24:16
They're like I don't want to go to equality.
24:18
They first get it like I don't like horses on the road.
24:21
And then by the next week they're telling you which horse is their favorite
24:25
you know. Yeah.
24:26
Hey where's he going. And I love, Blizzard.
24:28
He's the coolest horse ever.
24:30
And, you know, they're they're they're telling you anything about horses or.
24:32
I have some guys who really love DVT groups.
24:36
We'll do it.
24:36
We do a weekly DVT group with the guys. Really?
24:39
You know, they're everywhere.
24:40
I've had a couple guys who really like it,
24:43
and they'll tell me about it and what they're learning.
24:45
Why these what do they say that's so curious to me?
24:47
I think this is because it's helping them. Yeah.
24:51
There's like a framework.
24:52
There's like a structure right. Yeah.
24:54
It's like talk about now it's not it's like I was struggling with this.
24:58
I have this new acronym that I learned and I tried it and it worked,
25:02
you know, and it's yeah.
25:04
But it's like, whoa. Exactly.
25:07
I thought, oh, this was something, you know, it's those things like,
25:11
you know, first and recovery too, and then you'll know that, like, there's
25:14
those things that you don't think about as a young person or as an old person,
25:19
you know, like when you're struggling with a problem,
25:21
you're not necessarily you're just experiencing that pain.
25:25
Yeah.
25:26
And so the first time that you experienced, solution
25:28
is kind of like exciting, whether you're telling somebody on Southwest Airlines
25:33
flight about it or if you're telling your clinical director on your campus.
25:37
Yeah, that's cool to hear.
25:39
Well, I think that's at that moment they start
25:43
taking good
25:44
control of things in their lives.
25:47
They're like, oh, if I do this, I can control that.
25:50
And they're like, oh,
25:51
I didn't know I could do that because I used to just do this for it.
25:54
So it's like in that moment they're like, oh, I can actually be in control
25:59
of part of my life.
26:00
Like, and for them, it's been out of control for so long that I think that's
26:04
so they do. I mean, they do. I think it is.
26:07
Yeah. It's empowering. Yeah.
26:10
You know, because
26:11
again, by the time they get to us, they've been told a lot of stuff.
26:16
And you know, one of the bigger things is you're just a kid.
26:17
You can't do it well when they're learning in there.
26:20
Yeah you're a kid, but you can do it like this is all you.
26:24
And that's what I tell my girls all the time,
26:26
you know, they'll they'll say thank you for your help or this.
26:28
I'm like, I'm just along for your journey.
26:31
Like, this is you doing the hard stuff.
26:32
Like, I don't do the hard stuff. You do.
26:35
You just allow me to be there.
26:36
Not to mention the identity work. You know?
26:39
I mean,
26:41
deciding to change your life in this kind of way
26:44
after going to treatment, whether that's, you know, staying clean and sober
26:48
or whatever, that whatever your recovery means to you.
26:53
Is hard for anybody.
26:55
So but I think about that pressure
26:58
being 16 years old and like leaving your school and like.
27:04
That's got to be really really that again that word I'm thinking
27:07
it's just that pressure, that social pressure I'm feeling.
27:13
I can't believe I'm going to be that kid that's got to go to this place,
27:17
you know, to live for a couple months.
27:18
And what's that mean for me? You know,
27:22
it reminds me sometimes I think our adult patients out here
27:24
don't know how to interact with, like, the love and the dignity and respect.
27:28
A couple of nights.
27:31
Like, what I mean is.
27:35
When somebody is being kind
27:38
for just the sake of being kind and warm and
27:41
welcoming, the response can be like, what do you want?
27:44
What do you want?
27:46
Why are you doing this.
27:48
Like hold me here to help, you know. Yeah.
27:50
We just, we just want you to have a good experience here.
27:53
And they're like no no no like what.
27:55
What's, what are you getting out of this.
27:57
And so I don't know.
27:59
That just reminds me of this unique struggle that these kids have to be under.
28:04
I think one of the biggest things that breaks
28:06
my heart is kind of what you're talking about.
28:07
When you hear the kid not feel like they're worthy enough
28:12
to have somebody care. Yeah.
28:13
You know, and, you know, I, I recently just, had this with a resident.
28:18
I told her, I said, I'm going to care till you can, so I don't need you to.
28:22
I'm like, that's okay.
28:23
You don't have to.
28:24
And she would get so mad at me and I'm like, I'm going to be here.
28:27
Like I'm still. And then it
28:29
really was like,
28:31
wow, I just yelled at you for ten minutes and you're still standing here.
28:35
And I'm like, yeah, that's not a thing. That's not like it.
28:38
It's just something in your modeling.
28:39
Yeah. It's like, you know, it's not something.
28:41
And she doesn't mean it like it's it's not personal.
28:44
It's hard.
28:45
Like you said, most of them got here.
28:47
And for somebody to actually care and care without strings,
28:51
like, I don't want anything from you, I want what's best for you
28:54
and, like, do you really? I do.
28:57
Can I ask you guys about pace?
28:58
You've reminded me of something.
28:59
When I was a therapist,
29:05
back when I was patient
29:06
facing when I was practicing,
29:09
I had a few adolescent clients, you know, in that age range.
29:13
And I was always frustrated with pace.
29:17
Because
29:18
just, like, whatever, mini EFT training, that's kind of in the middle of my heart.
29:22
So I had, like, patterns.
29:24
You know, I like you know, core emotions, the process, not the comments.
29:27
Very recovery. Two therapy.
29:30
But I always noticed how much I struggled
29:34
with the difference of pace with an adolescent.
29:38
Like I'd be a sign that adolescents clinic
29:41
and I would have to really coach myself up about like, man,
29:45
today, if we just have a positive interaction
29:49
for this hour, like, yes, that.
29:51
And my supervisor was like, that's all you need to worry about.
29:54
I'm like, yeah, but I want to do it.
29:55
You know,
29:55
I want to get into, you know, like, let's figure out what the thing is like.
29:59
Like I want to generate some oh my God.
30:02
And they were like, oh man, that's not what needs to happen for adolescents.
30:05
So am I crazy? I was just a bad therapist.
30:08
Or is that it?
30:10
Is the pacing sometimes different?
30:14
Oh, absolutely.
30:15
Yeah.
30:15
Because y'all are looking at me like you're like, yeah, yeah, I know.
30:20
Yeah.
30:20
The pacing is absolutely different.
30:22
And it's is that frustrating or is that you guys are just pros now?
30:28
Yeah, I'm definitely a pronoun, but
30:31
no, absolutely frustrating.
30:32
It's definitely frustrating at times because we're all passionate about it.
30:36
Yeah.
30:36
And you want your you know, you want the best for these
30:39
these individuals and you know, you want to see them grasp it.
30:43
And but there's always that reality of, you know, we're just helping them along
30:49
and what's going to make changes is them doing this.
30:52
And sometimes it takes longer for, for someone
30:55
and not for someone else.
30:58
And we also designed our program for that.
31:02
So yeah. So we
31:06
are both programs are progress based.
31:09
Yeah.
31:10
And there's this whole
31:13
program that we designed where it's a step process.
31:16
Not, not what goes along with the 12 steps
31:19
of how they progress through our program.
31:22
And it's designed so that they do it at their pace
31:26
and meet those milestones when they're ready
31:29
and when they've been able to do the work
31:31
or understand what they need to do to kind of get to that next level.
31:35
So that helps as well.
31:38
I think that I think the goals help with that too.
31:40
Yeah.
31:41
Like our treatment work, the step work is kind of,
31:46
I shouldn't say set in stone, but it's kind of like the backbone.
31:50
Now then we have go along with ours is like the goals.
31:53
And those are very individualized to like if you have a kid that's struggling
31:58
like that's what's going on.
31:59
The goal sheet, their struggles like to help them
32:03
in a in a positive way, be able to.
32:06
And if it's, you know, even symbol is like not getting enough coping skills
32:10
like we may put on the goal sheet.
32:12
Hey, I need you to learn three new coping skills this week and use them
32:16
and tell us about how that how that went.
32:18
Just so they get in the habit of wanting to,
32:20
you know, because, you know, different coping skills are for different people.
32:24
They're all different.
32:25
But I think one of my main things with when I get frustrated,
32:29
I have to tell myself this is I meet them where they're at,
32:32
they can't meet me where I'm at.
32:34
So you take a step back and you're like, okay, this is like you said today,
32:38
I didn't get yelled at.
32:39
I am so excited.
32:40
Like we went through that whole hour session and it was great.
32:44
It's real.
32:45
It is people.
32:46
It might be, you know, like that is what you have to.
32:51
I mean, like I said, I it was something that I recognized early
32:55
on that I really struggle with, you know, it was I wanted to push
32:59
and I also tend to be directive in my when I was practicing.
33:02
Right. Imagine which works for some. Yeah.
33:05
It doesn't work for others and allow we have to be reflexive. But
33:09
it was just it
33:10
really challenged me to chill out
33:13
and let them like, you know, showed up on time.
33:16
You were there.
33:16
You were consistent there learning that there's that trust element.
33:20
Maybe they have had experience
33:21
where they can trust the adults in their life or whatever.
33:26
All this leads me to think about how the structure of the program in terms
33:29
of length and engagement, really changed when y'all moved out to harvest.
33:35
Can you talk about that?
33:37
A and maybe that this is connected.
33:40
Can you talk about that evolution because it fundamentally shifted
33:45
when you move from railroad here to out there.
33:48
Yeah.
33:49
When we moved to our new campus it allowed us to do so much more.
33:54
What was your original length of stay you think when you were here about
33:58
that, that maybe 45 days.
34:01
Okay.
34:02
So back then,
34:08
100, give or take,
34:10
you know, dependent.
34:11
Yeah.
34:13
I mean, it's and again, I think
34:17
how we do our programing, having that campus
34:21
and allowing us to do so
34:23
much more is what really changed everything.
34:26
You know,
34:29
we were confined to doing things a little bit.
34:33
You're sharing. Yeah. Yeah.
34:34
Other with other clinical teams.
34:36
Yeah. Populations. And you have share the resources. Yeah.
34:39
And it was, you know,
34:41
the time you get for this, your time you get for
34:42
that is very, you know in going out.
34:44
So margin. Yeah.
34:45
But now it, it gives us the opportunity to do what we need to
34:51
what do we need to and that really changed everything.
34:56
Yeah.
34:57
Definitely allows us to be more individualized.
34:59
Yeah.
35:00
Just like you said, progress basically,
35:02
because someone can get through it quicker than the other one.
35:05
But the one that's slow are not feeling it
35:08
like they're just feeling I'm here in my time.
35:11
This is what I'm doing and not feeling pushed or, like you said, pressured
35:16
to have to perform at this one's level because they know it's all progress based.
35:20
Just, you know, we'll meet you where you're at.
35:24
How about your teams?
35:26
What are you looking for when you guys are hiring
35:28
a therapist?
35:34
I see like for me for me,
35:37
I usually like someone who's just,
35:40
really passionate about adolescence.
35:44
And that's not everyone.
35:48
Yeah.
35:49
I mean, there's just some people, and.
35:51
Yeah, I mean, it. It's true.
35:52
There's definitely people who,
35:55
Yeah, just like
35:56
couples is my jam or individual was my thing or whatever.
35:59
Yeah.
36:00
And usually it's you can tell right off the bat
36:03
when you start talking to, to someone about it,
36:05
whether they've had any experience working with adolescents.
36:08
Do we hire you all hire with no experience with adolescents?
36:14
I wouldn't say that.
36:15
I wouldn't.
36:16
I think there's other variables that that come into play.
36:19
This that passion is what you're.
36:21
Yeah.
36:21
Someone who might be really passionate,
36:24
loves maybe, more wilderness based techniques.
36:27
And I'm like, okay, well, that's really cool.
36:29
Or,
36:32
you know, you can kind of tell when you're talking to someone too.
36:35
I think you have to be a little bit more.
36:38
I don't want to say immature work with adolescents, but, you know,
36:42
because, you know, I guess not take yourself so seriously.
36:46
Yeah, I think it's patience I pace. Yeah, patience.
36:49
I think you should.
36:53
Flexibility.
36:54
Yeah.
36:54
It is just not going to go according to plan here.
36:57
Absolutely none.
36:59
Interesting.
37:01
Have we ever had.
37:02
Do we have I am genuinely curious.
37:04
Like do we hire folks out there
37:07
that haven't worked in adolescent care specifically.
37:10
And what's that like for them getting in tune with our population and programs.
37:17
Oh I have
37:19
thank you for that.
37:20
I was like, yeah.
37:21
Maybe it didn't work out.
37:24
Yeah, yeah.
37:25
No, I mean I did the individual, I was
37:30
for their own reasons was really passionate
37:33
about adolescent care.
37:36
They got sober and, when they were an adolescent,
37:40
and, that's why I say when there's those other variables
37:44
of someone who maybe not necessarily has been working with adolescents for,
37:47
you know, a year or so, but has all these other things or have staff move over to.
37:52
Yeah, back and forth. Right.
37:54
And I don't imagine that, I'm like been inside of the adolescent program. Like
37:59
they're just like, hey, like, I believe Kenny used to be here at River road.
38:06
Yeah,
38:07
he was, because he and I started a day apart.
38:09
Oh, really? Yeah. I've been here day long.
38:12
And so that was an example of, like, passion.
38:14
Really excited on one particular element.
38:16
And I think Dean and Neil's team recognized
38:18
that and let him like really run with it.
38:20
And he's done such a great great great job.
38:22
Yeah. But
38:26
yeah it's it's always is fascinating to me and how you build those teams,
38:31
you know, and people are good at some things
38:33
and they have, you know, expertise in others.
38:35
And I just would imagine that sometimes
38:37
it can be difficult to find somebody that like, has all the checks.
38:40
Yeah.
38:41
You know.
38:43
I think it would be
38:45
I think for me it's the passion to you have to
38:50
you have to be passionate about the kids.
38:52
But then you also have to understand that piece of recovery that comes in
38:56
because it's a different it's different
38:59
than just a private practice adolescent.
39:02
Because they're coming into us with a lot of factors.
39:06
And, you know, some of the biggest factors as parents.
39:09
So it's being able to work
39:11
with families, which I love, families,
39:15
and that is my passion.
39:16
So it's being able to fit all those pieces together.
39:21
But again, I think, you know, because on the girls, it's,
39:25
it's I have one counselor, so it's a lot different.
39:28
So my team looks different versus I rely on my case a lot.
39:33
And even my teacher, you know, she she led a group for us a couple of weeks ago.
39:38
Girls absolutely loved it.
39:39
So it's a different.
39:40
But like when I was on the boys campus, I think for me, it's
39:44
a team to me is like you
39:45
said, you know, everybody has things that they're really good at,
39:49
and you come together and you help with the things you're really good at,
39:53
and you let others help you with the things you're not as good with.
39:55
So it's being able to just talk to me a team player's important when it comes
40:00
to this kind of work, because it takes all of us for each resident.
40:05
Like it's not just, oh,
40:06
this is the one I'm working with is like, oh no, you have 12 others over here.
40:10
So it's being able to,
40:13
you know, be flexible and be with all of them.
40:16
Yeah.
40:17
And organization do.
40:18
And sometimes you have to boil the water and sometimes you have.
40:21
So sometimes you clean the pipeline.
40:24
That's just that's part of me that I really enjoy
40:27
because on any given day things could be slightly different.
40:31
You could be doing something totally.
40:33
And that makes it exciting.
40:34
In the midst of like underpinning all of that is somebody searching
40:40
to change and live differently. Yes.
40:44
Okay.
40:47
Where is our kind of be going.
40:49
What's next.
40:50
What are you most excited about.
40:53
Like maybe can't think about what's happening next week
40:57
or like next year, five years from now, can I what are y'all excited for?
41:02
Can I say getting through the day?
41:04
Yeah.
41:06
I'm no.
41:07
I'm excited to see it grow like our girls program.
41:11
Again, we're really new,
41:13
but I know with our program it's not a lot of places out there.
41:18
Of course, I may be biased, but I love Cumberland Heights.
41:21
I love their mission. I love why they're here.
41:23
And I love how the girls, you know, we walk into our facility
41:26
and you're like walking into a cabin and that just that feeling.
41:30
So, you know,
41:31
I want to see them grow and be able to, you know, help more girls out there.
41:36
That's ultimately what I would like to see.
41:39
Let's say you will say growth is same way.
41:44
I mean, you guys have been doing a lot of that up sometimes.
41:47
Yeah.
41:47
And you know, growth with being able to reach more people.
41:53
Growth is what I'm
41:57
I think you always need to be evolving, right?
41:59
It's I mean that as well.
42:01
Like, you always have to be changing and,
42:04
always, you know, making yourself better.
42:08
Like, what can we do this year that makes us better?
42:11
You know what?
42:12
What do we need to provide more?
42:14
What what can we what are we what are we not providing that we can provide?
42:19
And I'm also always pushing our executive director.
42:22
Really?
42:22
Hey, maybe we should add, I always would add.
42:25
Right.
42:26
Like, let's add this cool group.
42:29
I mean, like, recently I heard about, a group
42:33
for was it some game group is just
42:37
I don't know much about it, but like game therapy or something.
42:39
They were like, you know, we provide this game group, but like, awesome.
42:43
You know, I, I wanted that
42:46
so just
42:47
always growth and evolving and like you said,
42:51
growing me I have more I ps more areas.
42:55
Yeah. Yeah.
42:56
I just think there's a huge
42:58
you alluded to a, you know, adolescent care period.
43:01
Full stop is something that's needed more than ever
43:05
just with the in my opinion.
43:07
In fact technology and social media.
43:09
Don't get me started.
43:10
It's really important developmentally.
43:13
And I think that that's what I love about what y'all and Dean are doing,
43:18
you know, growing that outpatient arm of the service, like,
43:21
you know,
43:22
and if you're not careful, like, be careful what you wish for, you know,
43:24
because the girls are here for a year, you know, and sometimes it
43:27
sometimes it can realize it feels like change happens really slow, you know,
43:31
but other times, and the reality is change is happening all the time.
43:35
Yeah.
43:35
And and y'all
43:36
probably have that perspective, having been here for a while to see like
43:39
how much has changed like a tremendous amount has changed as an organization.
43:44
And it does excite me to think about that
43:48
on an outpatient side, you know, where the severity is different.
43:52
And I and more than likely, you know, that means more lives touched
43:59
because, you know, usually that's a bigger population.
44:01
And maybe we could do some cool things
44:05
in the community at that level that could interact.
44:08
I think about with my own story.
44:10
I don't know if I would have listened, you know, on The Runaway Train,
44:14
but for some kids there might be something that you guys do like
44:19
that came group at the outpatient level that changed their life.
44:24
Yeah.
44:25
So that that excites me.
44:26
We you know, we have these adult programs for 60 years,
44:29
you know, in adolescence since 85, though, like, that's a real opportunity.
44:34
And, and and you're right, there are not a lot of in-network,
44:39
not for profit providers
44:43
in Nashville or in Tennessee or in the southeast.
44:47
Yeah.
44:47
You know, so it is kind of just exciting to see all that.
44:53
Well shout out to y'all.
44:55
Shout out to your programs.
44:56
If you're interested in learning more check out their program at our story.
45:00
Again we have a boys program.
45:01
We have a girls program two distinct campuses.
45:03
We have IUP both here in Nashville
45:07
and soon in Memphis and telehealth.
45:13
So anywhere in the state of Tennessee, we'll have these guys
45:16
bio and contact information in this week's episode.
45:20
Thanks again for listening.
45:21
Give us a like follow and share.
45:23
We'll see you again next time.