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British Military's HEAVY Losses - Should We Rethink Israel Iran? | Andy Gallie · Chris Thrall's Bought the T-Shirt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hello friends, I'm your host, Chris Throuw. I'm a former
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ruleries commando.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I've adventured for better and sometimes worse, across eighty countries
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: on all seven continents. Welcome to the Port the t
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Shirt podcast. Hello Legends. So incredibly serious topic that I've
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: wanted to cover for some time now, particularly as within
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: the last let's just say a month as a rough
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: time frame, I've had two people that were my friends
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: both take themselves out the game. I'm using euphemisms here
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: because of the platform that you're probably watching this on,
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: and there's a lot of misunderstanding around this subject and
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: how it relates to veteran So the question is why
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: are we losing so many veterans to their mental health?
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: What I've done to help have somebody I can bounce
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: my thoughts off. I've invited the wonderful Andy Galley to
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: the show. Andy does a lot of work in the
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: veterans community in the area preventing gambling and helping people
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: recover from gambling addiction, and he himself lost hundreds of
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: thousands of pounds or gambled hundreds of thousands of pounds
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: before he, I guess had his epiphany which led to
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: his healing process. So he's a good man to know,
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: former Royal Navy and so former Royal Marine and Royal Navy.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: We're going to mess this right up. Let's get into it. Andy,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: HOWI brother?
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, good, thanks, Chris, good to see you as always.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, mate, of I spelt your surname right in this
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: thumb and I have a GA double L I E.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't mind how it's spelt. Chris. You know
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: I've been called worse.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I haven't yet put a podcast out with someone's name
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: spelled wrong. I don't don't want to start today. So Andy,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: first off, massive congratulations and all the work that you've
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: been doing. I'm just going to show a website up here.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: This is Beacon Counseling Trust, who run an Arms forces
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: community program Battling the Odds, and they address gambling related
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: harms in the Armed forces community. And he's very much
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: involved in uh running this program folks. And here I'll
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: let him put this into his own words in good time.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: But they brought out a video the other day, a
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: film about gambling arms in the military, and it's a
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: massive eye owner to realize the guy that's next you
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: are in the workplace, could absolutely be going through through hell.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Obviously that's not just related to gambling, could be any
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: any form of addiction or mental health problem. But I
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: just wanted to say congrats on the film Andy. How's
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: it been received?
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Chris. It was a great bit of work
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: that was commissioned. You mentioned Beacon. We're part of the
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: bigger Armed Forces Gambling Support network, so five different organizations
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: covering from Scotland with RCAA trust to BETO, more in London,
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: break Even in the Southeastern are in the Southwest, so
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: we're covering the whole country, hence the showing in Plymouth.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: But the Unseen Enemy is you know, it was recorded
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: at first just to highlight address what we're doing, or
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: to highlight what we're doing, but actually people have found
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: it really really powerful, and the fact that we've got
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: three veterans on there and an affected other of a veteran,
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: it just showed that none of us are exempt from
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: from these issues. And the more we talk about it,
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: the more we openly talk about it, and I openly
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: talk about everything that I've ever done and the struggles
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: that I've been through, other people are seeming to come
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: out of the woodwork and say actually, yeah, I struggle
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: as well. So and that's what it's there for. That's
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: what I'm here for. That's why I do the work,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: is to encourage people to stop this ridiculous bravado and
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: alpha kind of attitude and start talking about what's going on,
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: what's going on in the head. You know, I'm struggling today.
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: I'm really going through it. Actually, I feel like taking
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: myself out of the you know, out of it all.
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: And you know, to be able to say that to
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: somebody else, it lifts a weight off. But we don't
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: do it enough because we've got this ridiculous, you know,
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: scenario where we don't talk about our emotions, we don't
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: talk about thoughts and feelings because one I'm sure we'll
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: talk about it in a minute. But from childhood we're
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: told not to especially our generation. Well obviously you're a
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: good ten year older, but you know, it's wildhood where
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: you know it's drummed into us and then you join
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: the forces at a very young age and you're told
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: again to man up back on life in the blue one.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: It's those kind of things that are instilled in us
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: from a young age that set our boundaries. We don't talk.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: You know, there's people in the forces today, missing home, homesick,
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: lonely in single living accommodation that can't reach out because
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: they'll be mocked for it. And that's what we need
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: to break down. And I think that's what the video
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: and our work does. It's much bigger than gambling. Gambling
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: is what we use. You know, The root cause is
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: our mental health, the root causes what are we running from?
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Absolutely it was particularly moving during your presentation your film
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: in the Q and A afterwards that so many members
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: serving in the military stood up and said, how can
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I get you guys to visit my military base? Because
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: you know, people, I thought that was that was military
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: leaders looking after them troops, wasn't it.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And we we have a lot of uptake from
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: that level of people, so quite senior officers within the Navy, Army,
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: marif Marines. We tend to have a little bit of
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: a blocker barrier as it gets further up the chain.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: So once they go back and say are we okay
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: to get these people in, you know, they maybe get
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: feedback from higher up within the mod to say, well,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: actually it's not you know, it's not authorized at the minute.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: So we get a lot of people going, we've got
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: a problem, we need you to come in, we want
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: you to come in, and then you don't hear anymore.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: So we need to change again that attitude from those
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: higher up.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: That's a tough one because we saw that during the
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: I don't even like to use the c ov ID
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: word because you know it's all come out now. Everyone
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: was just usterly scammed and some of us were bloody
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: aware of this from the start. We approached the military,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: we said, what are you doing to your people? This
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: is going to sting. Sting is a very underrated euphemism.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: That's not putting it. That's putting it lightly, is what
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to say. And of course it's because the
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: military is full of yes men, so you know, everyone
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: jumping through loops for their next promotion, worried that they're
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: you know, not not going to be able to pay
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: the mortgage if they lose, you know, lose their rank
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: or or their job, and completely going against the warriors
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: that we were trained to be. But just put that
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: to one side, isn't it funny? I just went to
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: change my shirt and subconsciously I've put on a Ralph
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Lauren the same as you, the difference being I think
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: yours is an original. This is about three quid in Thailand.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Mine was a fiver off Vinted, So I don't go big, Chris,
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: we go vinted.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: You know, A yes, and we're going to talk about
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: ego because this isn't very important, so friends, please listen up.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: This is an incredibly deep subject. Why does the forces
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: lose so many people either during service or after? I
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: feel I pretty much understand this, although obviously I don't
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: know every single case and I don't pretend to speak
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: for it. But what I've done today is, rather than
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: me just talk to the camera on my own, I've
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: brought Andy here to kind of act as a springboard
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: for my thoughts, ideas a bit of two way conversation.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: But I am going to be talking a lot. And
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: if you don't like this, you need to go to
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: the BBC and watch interviews or something. Because we've always
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: been a podcast here Andy. It's always been me getting
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: people on that I want to yap with, and sometimes
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I've got more to say than them. It's just it's
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: called life, folks. So I just wanted to get that
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: out of the way, and yes, I'll lay the table
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: here for the conversation and Andy the whole public. And
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I think in the veterans community it's the same. I
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: think everyone's been indoctrinating and brainwashed to think that trauma
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: is something that you get from the battlefield, whereas my
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: fifty five years on this planet and all the life
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: coaching I've done over the last twenty and the research
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: would dictate that no, what happens maybe in service, and
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have to be something gruesome on the battlefield.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: It could be getting victimized in training, it could be
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: being ostracized from a job position, whatever it might be.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: That is a catalyst. But the heart of the problem
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: lies in unresolved childhood trauma. In short, that for the
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: most part, most veterans I meet had some form of
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: abuse in childhood, whether that was neglect, like their own
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: parent was in the forces and they didn't get to
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: see their dad for nine months a year, whether and
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: that's just one example of neglect abuse physical, mental, or sexual.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: And there's something about that psychological makeup as a youngster
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  Speaker 2: that makes you a prime target for the military recruiter machine,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: of which I hold my hand up and say that
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: was totally me.
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  Speaker 3: Andy.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: I joined up A because I couldn't focus in life.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't see anything that I wanted to do, and
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: I felt useless at everything, And B I wanted to
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: prove to my parents, both of whom said I was
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: a failure and would wouldn't amount to everything. I was
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: homeless for the first time at fifteen in the school uniform,
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: and then homeless again at seventeen, and I was exactly
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: that damaged person, totally living in my ego. Not a
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: criticism of people, Andy, not a criticism of the forces.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying this is a difficult convisation to have.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: And where I'm leading to I'll hand over to you
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: in a second is I'm seeing veterans who are my age,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: maybe ten years younger, taking themselves out the game based
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: on relationships that have gone wrong, material dissatisfaction, fear, the
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: fear of starting a new career outside the middle. And
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: all of these are ego driven phenomena as opposed to
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: people who have connected with their higher self. And I
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: will take this one step at a time. So am
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: I making any sense? Andy?
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: One hundred protect lists I mentioned before we started. I
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: love talking to you because for me anyway, it makes
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: complete sense and just my own story, you could have
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: been repeating a lot of that there, and you know,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the physical kind of abuse. When I was younger, didn't
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: see it. I just thought, well, that's what that's what
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: parents do. Like that's children just being reprimanded. But actually
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: it went past that. But because it's your parent, she go, oh, well,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: you know, it's not there, not their fault. And I
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: think so many people up join the forces from a
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: quite a dysfunctional family background might not be masses and
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: masses of trauma. And one of the things I always
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: talk about in the training is that people will often
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: refer to trauma as PTSD, as you say, witnessing something
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: out in Afghanistan or you know, seeing one of their opos,
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: you know, blown up. But actually, when I look at trauma,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: it's it could be thirty forty fifty different little things
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: that have set to you when you're younger. It could
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: be a teacher telling you you'll never be any good.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: It could be your sports teacher telling you you're useless
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: at sport. You're never going to be good at sport,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: but you really want to it may sound petty, it
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: might sound a bit pink and fluffy, but that sticks
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: with you, and it all sticks at the back of
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: your brain. And as your brain starts filling up with
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: all of these negatives, there's no room for those positives.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: And I think, you know, we go into the forces
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: and then what we call banter, and I was probably
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: one of the worst for it, very very close to
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: the bone banter, really cutting comments. How many of those
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: comments are said have stuck with people over the years,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: and they still think about it now, They still question
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: themselves when they look in the mirror now, because I
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: know I do with some of the things people said
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: to me. But how do we deal with that? We
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: don't say, actually that just made me feel really uncomfortable.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: We laugh, don't we and we go with it, and
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: we add more and more trauma onto that just an acceptance.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: But I think I was dealing with a lad on Friday,
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: currently serving in the army, just being or facing an
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: ABH charge, drinking to excess, just being an absolute nightmare.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: And you know, we started talking and I said about
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: childhood and he was like, no, it's all good. You know,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: my dad was a bit aggressive, but he was in
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: the army, wouldn't he that's normal? Then when we dug
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: into it is mum actually ended up in a mental
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: health facility for alcoholism. His dad was actually really physically abusive,
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: and he said, but he said, but we've all been
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: through that. And do you know the point that I
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: think I made to him there was is because you
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: surround yourself with people that have been through that. You know,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: when I was gambling, I surround himself with gamblers because
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: they normalize it. If you've been through trauma, you surround
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: yourself with other people that have been through childhood abuse,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: so that again completely normalizes it, and we don't then
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: talk about it because it's normal. And as soon as
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: somebody breaks that cycle and says, actually that's not normal,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: you know that really needs addressing. You know, this lad
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: then wants to turn this stuff around, but canny because
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: it might be too late, you know. So sorry, I'm
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: rambling on the crystal.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: No, mate, you spot on every everything a valid point.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to pick up on a couple of
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: things there. So you said banter, I'd say I loved
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the banter in the forces, because that's what it was.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: It was someone basically saying I like you opoh, I'm
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: going to take the mickey because that's my way of
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: showing you know. They call me zoomer on shit. Took
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: me years to work out what it meant. It was
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: the four or five Lads, so the lad's based in
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: four or five Commander in Scotland. I was on ship
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: for a year and a half with them. They call
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: me zoomer. I was about forty five, having left the
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: forces for twenty years when it came across the web
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: page of Scottish like coulloquialism and it said zoomer Scottish
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: for crazy person. Right, So I wasn't trying to dispute
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: what you're saying. I'd say there's a lot of snide
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: bullying comments in the forces because there's a lot of
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: very damaged people that you work with and vy can't.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: And I'm not blaming them because from an empathy point
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: of view, they probably got battered when they were kids
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: as well. But I'm not blaming them. But I am
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: saying it made your life a misery one person, and
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I think everybody had one of these people, perhaps not everyone,
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: maybe there's some fortunate ones out there. There's always someone
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: that had your number. Do you know what I mean?
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: There's some eagle clash there. They saw something about you.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Get in reality, it is probably a bit jealous of
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: or you know, being the way you looked, or you
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: hit with the girls, or you you know, a better
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: card than them, or something you were, you know, better
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: at marching up and down the square. So that was that,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: And the other thing is the military program itself. You're
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: planted as a very damaged, vulnerable person. For the most part,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: not everybody's damaged, but you're planted into a troop of
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: thirty fifty five blokes we joined up with, many of
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: whom are scared, worried, frantic. I realized that when on
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: the second day in training, I had to go looking
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: for my denims, you know, my trousers, because someone had
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: been so scared they'd lost theirs that they nicked mine.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I found him hanging up, hanging up out on someone's locker.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: And you know, that's how scared people were that they
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: basically commit a crime not to have to face a
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: corporal and say, sorry, corporal, I've lost my bloody trousers.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: The heavy indoctrination program on top of that, you know,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: targets will fall when hit. Not other teenagers will fall
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: when hit, and they've probably done nothing to you. You know,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: just be honest here, and that brainwashing that your training
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: teams put you through into you are the weakest link
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: through everyone's waiting for you. I was quite lucky I
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: didn't get you know, we all got this a bit.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: But to be honest, I think we all felt lucky
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: it won us. It was that lad over there and
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: some of our lads they got it bad. And of
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: course when the training team started on them. And I
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: just want to say, our training team will for the
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: most part, absolutely wonderful, right, But when the training team
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: start to highlight a recruits behavior, then the fearing and
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: the and the what's it the group mentality mob mentality
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: then starts to target that person as well, and serious trauma.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Not nice. Being in a terrifying environment where you don't
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: know if you're going to pass or fail. You've got
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: everything on the line. It's taken you months, if not years,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: of preparation to get there, and then suddenly you've got
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: thirty blokes that fucking hate you, or that's the way
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: it feels. You've got to be a strong character to
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: you know, to sort of brush that one off.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely again, I think, you know, just going back
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: on the banter when I'm with you, I will still
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: have banter to this day. I work closely with Matt
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Losing on this program, and you know, we'll still have
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: really good banter now because we know we like each other.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: And it is those people that you know, have maybe
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: got a little bit of a problem with you that
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: then throw things in there, you know, and yeah, you're
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: absolutely right, like with the materialistic side, and I'm meant
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: to say just now, with social media drives a lot
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: of that. If I go on social media today even
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: and I see somebody's maybe got a new job, or
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: they've been promoted, or they've you know, doing really really
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: well in life, you think I'm not doing enough, I'm lacking,
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: whereas actually what I'm doing is plenty, absolutely plenty. But
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: that's where that self belief and self worth comes in.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: And you know, yeah, I just think with the train
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: inside we have very much the same in It was
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: one of those where you do get targeted, you do
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: get singled out, and I was always you know, you've
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: met me. I'm about six foot three and about eighteen
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: stone at the minute, and I was probably that when
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: I joined up, So I was always the slowest around
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: that mile and a half, you know, bar maybe one
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: or two, and it would then be singled out that
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: because a fat boy, you're having to run it again,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: you know. So as you say all those thirty in
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: our class, then like, it's Andy's fault, We've had to
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: do that again. It's Andy's fault, We're having to do
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: the assault course again because he can't be bothered to
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: get around, you know. So rather than actually notice your
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: struggling and try and build you up and get you
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: to that fitness level, let's target him, Let's punish him,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: and you just want to leave, you know. And part
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: of me, I've always been lucky to have that fight
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: in me to go I'll prove you wrong, you know.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: And that's what happened with my recovery is you know,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: my therapist called me out and told me I'll just
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: waste the rest of my life everything else, because he
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: knew or hoped, should we say it was maybe a
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: dangerous ploy, but that I would fight it and go
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: I'll show you. But some people don't have that, some
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: people are you know, my mental health has been wrecked
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: my whole life. But I still have that fight in nature,
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: whereas some people don't have that, and we don't know
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: who's got it and who hasn't. And the other side
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: just want to make a point on when we talk
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: about banter again. I was pulled up one day for
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: having bannter with this guy from Gharana and we got
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: on like house on fire, and you know, this officer
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: overheard something I said. He's pulled me to the side
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: and started giving me a bollocking. You know, he said,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: that's not acceptable. This isn't said. But we're you know,
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: bantering with each other. It's about us, he went, But
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: what you're not considering is who's hearing that, and whoever
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: hears it may be offended. Now for me, at the time,
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: I was like, mate, that's not my problem, is it.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: But now my thinking is very much I don't know
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: who I'm offending around me, because it's true, you know,
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: I might be making a cutting comment that somebody's gone
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: through that trauma, and I might be adding to it.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: So it is just about thinking about what we're saying.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: We haven't got it. You know, I'll never ever rain
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: it in fully I'm not able to. But it's about
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: being aware of who's around you and who you could
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: be damaging.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. When I did my I did a youth work course.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: My degree is in youth work, Youth and Community and
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: a placement I was on was working with young offenders
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: with a deer ex colleague from the Marines called Trevor Philpott,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: who who craziest life is. He was the major that
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: handed me my green berry when I passed out of
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: training and we ended up working together, which was which
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: was nice. He's Trev's dead now, died of Alzheimers, sadly
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: or the effects of it. I suppose you shouldn't say.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: But when he started this center for these, you know,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: young lads coming out of prison that wanted to make
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: changes in their life, and one of them was they
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: called him Paki and he went along with it, you think. Oh,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: and when I wrote up my report for for my
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: supervisor at college, and I said, yeah, it's quite funny
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: the way that everyone calls him Paki, and he, you know,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: laughs it off and my supervisor doing the job that
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: he was paid to do and doing it very well.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Went Hang on, set, Chris, what do you think that
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: lad's internalized by that dialogue, you know, thousand years of
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: racism or you know whatever, depending when you depending when
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: you think what Slavery went back to, you know, a
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: lesser version of himself. He was just pointing out that
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: people might laugh and go along with it. But does
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: someone who's overweight really want the nickname lard?
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: Ask?
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Just because all the lads have decided and you know,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: so that was that the other thing you mentioned about
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the identity. It is funny when you see someone who's
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: really struggling in adulthood and you know, as a coach,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: this is the childhood link here, This is just how
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: the cookie crumbles, and yet they will defend their damaged
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: childhood to the hill. You know, my dad was such
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: a good guy. Oh yeah, well yeah he was. You know,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: he was in a ref and well I never really
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: saw him, to be honest. You know, he'd come back
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: like once twice a year, and then he went off
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: with another woman when by the time I was like seven.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: But yeah, a great child and my dad was wonderful,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: and it's yeah, we get it. We get that you
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: want to protect what you know and the people that
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: you love, and every kid, especially a lad looks up
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: to the father. But that model I just described, it's
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: not one conducive to good mental health. You know, later
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: on in life, if it goes unresolved, the downward cycle,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: I think we should talk about. So here's how I
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: explain this in my coaching and my videos. You've got
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: this deep set, deep rooted childhood trauma. You've got a
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: very fracture good sense of identity. You're probably typically someone
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: who goes into flight, fight or freeze mode quite, you know,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: quite at the drop of a hat. You join the
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: military because there's something in you, I don't know. You
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: want the answers. You want to prove yourself. You want
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to you know, I can go and kill people. I'm
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: up to the job. I'll protect my country or whatever whatever.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: There's a variety of reasons people join up. Obviously, you
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: stay in a career and let's just say, I don't know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: just to say, you serve ten years. During that ten years,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: you're paid in sickness, in health. You've even got your
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: own padre if you want you your toughest decision you're
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: going to have to make in ten years is which
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: mountain bite you buy? You know, do I get one
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: with a derailia gears or the drum set or whatever. Yes,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: you put up with some stuff during the way, but
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: you you know along the way, and you've got two
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: options there. You either turn around and like battle it out,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: which that happen a lot when I served, or you
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: look at the size of the geezer and think, I'll
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: better sit this one. You know, I'll take one for
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: the team here. You know, you leave after ten years,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: you've never had to address the trauma that's building up
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: inside of you and all these little events along the
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: way that have turned it into complex layered trauma. You leave,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: you get a package that I don't know they gave
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: us two thousand pounds. You could go and retrain. I
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: spent it to go and see Tony Robbins and do
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: the firewalking. Some people put the money in their pocket
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: and go and work in their mates pub. That's how
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: it was. But it doesn't exactly prepare you for making
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: that jump into reality where people don't follow the same
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: rules as the military. People don't understand often things like loyalty,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: not saying that they always do in the military as well.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: But you know, you've got this culture shock when you
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: come out. You're working for a boss who's a bit
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: of a knob. He doesn't even know the marine's eyes
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: at all. That army stuff is. It doesn't care your
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: ego takes a right check there. Next thing you know,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: you're like walking off the job because it's just you know,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: or you start self medicating with the alcohol or the substances.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: You're medicating your feelings of trauma that you can't cope
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: with these emotions. He's at this anger, this feeling of inadequacy,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: this feeling like why am I always the different one?
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: All right? Alcohol fix that? So your two tinnies a
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: night a sudden start going up to six tinnies a night, twelve.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Then your mates bringing around a bit of sniff, bit
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: of puff, whatever it is. Then then the good woman
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: in your life is like, honey, I can't the kids
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: can't be seeing this. We're going to go and go
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: over to NaN's sort it out. So suddenly you've got
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: your childhood trauma, you've got a substance problem, you've got
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: mental health problem, you've got breakdown of relationships. You're unemployed,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: you've got a mortgage that you've got to pay, you're terrified,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: you don't know how to do it. What do you do?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: You go and self medicate some more, don't you? And
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: I'm just giving a rough kind of example here of
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: how people end up on their hours Sandy, you know.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: And the whole point for having this video with you
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: is we need to recognize this journey, this downward spiral,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: and understand that his childhood trauma is the root of it.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: The stuff in Afghanistan, although it's hideous and unpleasant and
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: it's only for a few people. I think I gave
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: this example before when I was on active service. The
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: guy behind me on patrol was shot three times. It's
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: like one of the most exciting days of my life.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: It was like exactly what we signed up for. Would
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: have been better still if we'd managed to get some
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: rounds off to the firing point. And I should say
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: here for our friends at home, MYOPO lived folks fairly unscathed.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Barra bruise that was like that, that big It would
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: have been a different obviously, you know, had he been
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: taken out. But the point is we did join up
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: for this excitement. We did know that we were going
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: to get in some scraps and it wouldn't always end nice.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: And we were adults. We made this choice, and we
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: had the cognitive ability to take something that happens in
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: battle or conflict and eventually work through it and then
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: compartmentalize it and move and then move move on with
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: your life. Childhood trauma is very different. Your mind has
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: been damaged at such a young age. It wasn't fully
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: your brain wasn't fully formed. So so your body, in
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: its infinite wisdom, stores it, like in yourself, in a
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: place that you can't at. You can't just get in there,
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: you know, get it out in therapy, deal with it,
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: move on. It's kind of like in this unknown place,
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: as it were. And I'm just highlighting this because the
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: public are so deluded that they worshiped the guy, you know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: in battle dropping napalm on women and children who then
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: gets his legs blown off, comes back a hero, absolute hero,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: public speaking events, the dead ad And I'm not you know,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not having to go at this guy. He's just
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: doing what he needs to get by. Whereas the child
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: who got battered unconscious twice a week by a parent
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: who himself was traumatized and was unhealed or not ready
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: to have children, or that kiddie that's getting raped and
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: having cigarettes stubbed out on him, or the one that's
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: crying because his daddy, you know, came back off leave,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: said Helow, went up straight up the pub and then
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: disappeared on his submarine again for nine months. That child,
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: when they grow up and they experience what you and
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I have been through, this bizarre healing process which smashes
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: you down and makes you lose almost everything, that person,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: when they end up homeless on the street, they have
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: the same people that idolize the You know that if
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: I use the term warmongers, I'm just using it in
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: context here as opposed to the battered kiddie, just to
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: see how utterly perverted society is thinking on this. They'll
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: spit on the abused child when they see him home events,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: you know, in adulthood. When they're homeless on the street,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: they're scumbag homeless. Why don't you get a job? Oh,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: I'll give you money, but you'd only spend it on drugs. Yeah,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: fricking right, they'll spend it on drugs because they've got
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: to deal with people like people with the mindset you've
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: you've got it's called society, and you know. I'm like
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I said, I'm not it. I'm not trying to offend people, Andy,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to highlight the complexity of this scenario
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: and the misunderstanding the public has now sorry to hand
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: over to you. At some point in this process, it
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: needs to be recognized that this is what's happening and
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: that person when when the wife or the girlfriend has left,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: and when the kids have been taken away because they're
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: an unstable parent, when they've lost the final job and
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: they're finally they're on the bottle of whiskey for breakfast,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: they can't work, or or whatever this scenario might be.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: It doesn't even have to be Substances don't even have
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: to be involved, but something needs to step in there
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: before they take themselves out of the game. And then
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: this journey that they've been on, this complex journey that
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: we've just unraveled, needs to be understood, brought to the surface, discussed,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: and healed using the appropriate interventions to allow that person
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: to move on. But at the moment, we're still at
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the stage of everyone who goes to war as a hero,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: and because of the brainwashing that that Hollywood have put
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: people through with their Rambo film. So just a quick aside.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: After Vietnam, people wanted peace. Andy right, there was a
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: massive It started the peace movement in America. The psychopathic
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: bankers and you know their dark network, the one that
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: JFK pointed out. They couldn't have this. You can't have
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: a peace movement when you're planning a quote unquote new
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: world order and you're going to invade this company, and
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: then that chap in Iraq, he's got to go at
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: some point. Then we're looking at the boy in Venezuela
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: and the laddie in Iran, whatever it might be. You
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: can't have You can't have everyone becoming peaceful and actually
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: loving each other. So what did they do. They turned
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: the war scenario into Look, you might not support the war,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: but you've got to support the veterans. You see what
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: they've done here. You've got Johnny Rambo. They're crying his
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: eyes out at the end of his film. No one
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: understands me. I was picking up my buddy and he
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: was blown the bits, and you know, they spared me.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: They called me baby killer, you know, And slowly, through
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: their Hollywood machine, they brain platoon. Another example, no discussion
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: of the illegality of that conflict and who gained from
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: it at the expense of you know, thousands upon thousands
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: of young American lives. No, it would just platoon was like,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: focus on the individual in this foxhole and what he's
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: going through. Off the back of that, you add thank
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: you for your service. Right, this is where all this
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: came from. May I buy you a copper coffee, sir?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Utterly brain or brainwashed youth that don't understand, you knowstand
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: the complexity of this picture. And that's I think where
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: we're at. We have a gross misunderstanding of the role
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: of the military, the role of the individual in the military.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Then makeup what constitutes trauma, the trauma journey, and ultimately
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: what needs to be done to prevent people taking themselves
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: out of the game. So I did talk a lot
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: then hope I'll own that one. Is that making sense, Andy?
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent again, And I think it's difficult
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: to pick all your points because genuinely, there are loads
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: there that you're just resonating with so much of it,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: and I think one of the ones was where we
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: talk about that joining up and you said earlier about
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: the time the money and the effort that's put into
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: effectively breaking you down to build you back up into
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: a soldier, sailor or whatever. You know, they put all
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: of that effort in and all of that time. Yeah,
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: when we come to transitioning out of the forces, you
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: literally just get given a little bit of money and
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: told to go and find a course. You know, that
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: last twelve months needs to ideally be breaking you down
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: from being a soldier, teaching you about all of this stuff,
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: getting you to open up about your mental health. You know,
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: I'm sure there will be plenty of people who watch this.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: You go, Ah, these two are a bit soft and
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: a bit pink and fluffy, aren't they not? In the Actually,
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I've got to talk about this stuff to keep myself safe,
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: but also to make sure that others are able to
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: open up and be safe. Now, that to me, is
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: the role of the forces. They should be doing this
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: twelve months before your discharge date, along with all of
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: the career transition partnerships, with all of the employment because
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: you could find me a job as a CEO of
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: a top company. I'm earning two hundred grand a year, brilliant.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: But if I'm not right mentally, I'm going to last
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: about a month or two months in that they're you
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: know you mentioned earlier about sort of that culture in
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: a civilian office. I remember my first office and I
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: went in. Somebody left themselves logged on. I've sent an email,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: you know, to the boss. Next thing, you know, I
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: mean being threatened with a disciplinary and I'm like, well,
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: that's normal. He left himself logged on, that's not my problem.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: But in a civy office, it's like it's not acceptable.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: So all of a sudden, you feel like an alien,
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: like they don't get your jokes, and if they do
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: get your jokes, they're offended by them. And I always
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: accept that they are not always of good taste, but
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: you just don't. You feel alone, And I always relate
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: it to it feels like being picked up blindfolded, placed
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: in the middle of a foreign country where you don't
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: speak the language, you don't understand the culture, you don't
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: know the religion. But the one thing that's a constant
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: and you can be guaranteed by, is that my substance
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: of choice or gambling will be there and will make
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: me feel the same way every single time. So everything
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: else has changed, but that one thing, alcohol or gambling
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: or whatever it may be, stays the same, and I
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: know I can go and get it, and I know
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: I can feel safe with it, and I know I
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: don't have to think about all of this other shit
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: that's going on. Because that's why I use gambling, because
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: I didn't want to deal with my childhood. I didn't
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: want to deal with the stuff that went on. And
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: I also didn't want to be one of those people
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: that just blamed. You know, I was always conscious of
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: being that bloke who blames everybody else, and I didn't.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: And it was my therapist again who said, you need
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: to bag up that blame because it's right that you
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: do put blame on it, but you leave it at
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: the door. You don't have to tell them, but you've
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: just got to put it all whether you do that
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: in a no send letter, and you know, you get
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: it all out there and leave it where it is.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: It's all well and good. It's still there. As you say,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: I can't access it, that's there, and little bits drip
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: out all the time. You know, I've been in recovery
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: for quite a while, doing really well, but some days
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: that childhood trauma will still come back and hit me
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: like a plank in the face. You know, it may
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: be questioning myself, It may be that self doubt, It
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: may be guilt with all of the things that I've done,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: because I have done pretty bad stuff. And as I say,
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: that transition period out is where we really need to
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: work on people. Work on that person because you know,
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: we mentioned that loss of sense of identity the morning
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: after you when you wake up after you've left, the
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: loss of purpose, you've got no work to get up for,
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: You've lost that banter and camaraderie, your service family. But
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: you then combine that with the practicalities of I moved
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: out of a mary quarter, so I didn't have a mortgage,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: didn't have security of a house, and I was only
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: paying two hundred pound a month for that merried courter
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: that includes water rates, council tax and rent on a
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: three bedroom house. I'm in Falm in Cornwall, and that
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: was twelve hundred pounds just for the rent, another three
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: hundred for the count tax, water rates, and all of
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: a sudden, I've got no income because I've just left
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: the horses. I've got all of these bills to pay
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: and I haven't got any of that security of Oh
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: I've got my meals on board, or I've got my accommodation,
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: or I've got you know, So all of a sudden,
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: my pension pot I only come out with half pension
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: and resettlement money. That's dwindling at a great rate. And
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: I'm also a gambler, so that's dwindled within about a week.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: I've got no way of getting that back. I've got
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: no security. So all of a sudden, I'm facing all
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: of these things. And as you say, a partner who's
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: just a wits end because she's not used to you
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: being at home, you're also now at home twenty four
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: to seven. You're throwing out her routine, the children's routine,
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: and you want it done your way, but she's used
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: to doing it that way. So we add all of
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: those complications in a relationship on and we also think
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: if that relationship ends, as you said earlier, that's going
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: to define me. If I'm single during this process and
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: my partner's left me and that's all gone to ship,
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: others are going to judge me. You know, he's left
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: and his whole life has just gone to shit. So
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: you know, we've got so many things to deal with
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: on top of a shed load of childhood trauma.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not an easy period at all, and I
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: can see why people end up just going I want
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: out of this. I've done it on three different occasions,
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: you know, just wanted to just be gone. And there's
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: still I think some days during recovery that I thought
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: I wish there was just a button, a button that
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: I could press that won't end it now, you know,
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: and I genuinely think i'd opress that button. It's that
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: much of a want to do it that actually people
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: would say it's cowardly to not do it, or you know,
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: he is not brave enough to do it, but it's not.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: It's again the selfishness and the guilt and everything else
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: that stops me going through with it. But it's still
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: because you're self doubt all the time. You know, even
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: in a civilian workplace where there's competition and there's almost
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: like a sales market, it's really really difficult to deal
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: with because as somebody with a neurodivergent brain, I genuinely
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: want things to be nice. I want everybody just to
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: get on and work and support each other. And when
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: it's not, I hate the world. You know, because in
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: the forces, we did ultimately support each other day in
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: day out, and we had each other's back. In the
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: civilian world, people will stab you in that same back
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: to get where they want to get to or prove
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: their point.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, I think there's a link here as
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: well that possibly needs further research. But I think that
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: my substance use abuse, call it whatever you want. That
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: went on for years really, although there was definitely a
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: point where I started the healing journey, the epiphany that
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: came quite quite quickly actually, But I wonder if there's
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: a buffer there, because I'll be honest, I've never been suicidal,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not I but I have been in an area
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: that was very gray, very gray, where you think, fucking
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: what is the point? What's the you know, just everything
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: seems insurmountable and overwhelming in this society, and it's getting worse.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: There's too much technology, it's too difficult to understand it.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: It takes far too much of your time just to
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: work out how to contact the bloody gas board or something,
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: and then you get chucked off the phone line and
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: you've had to take two hours out of the office
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: to go and sort this out, and now it's going
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: to need. It's you know, and I sort of get it,
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: but I wonder what the link there is between the
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: self medicating because with substance misuse, even though it's not
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: a good way to self medicate, because it has big repercussions.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: I come down, hangover, you know, look, gradually losing everything
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: that you've built up. But it does act as that buffer.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: You know, you can always knit down the shop and
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: get a few cans. I'm not suggesting people. Do I
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: know people that have taken himself out of the game
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: that they didn't even drink andy. I don't know what
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: else went on behind the scenes. You know, one of
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: my friends, it was the day after he left the
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: forces and he served a full career with an extension,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: and he didn't drink. What was going through his mind
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: the day he stepped foot in Civvy Street that led
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: to that And this is the conversations that need to
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: be had where the research needs to be done. Shall
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: we now, because I think we've covered this enough. We've
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: covered the childhood trauma. We've covered the in service you know,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: ups and downs, the complex layered trauma. We've highlighted how
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: it's not necessarily what you see in combat. In fact,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: that's more just a catalyst for some people. We've highlighted
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: the journey that you can leave them means you still
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: haven't healed because it's never been a thing. And then
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: suddenly the pressures of life, you start self medicating or ruminating,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: getting into that dark place which can take you down.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the hope behind this, because no matter
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: what I've been through. In fact, some people say, Chris,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: you really turn your life around, and I say, what
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: do you you know? What do you mean? I think
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I've always been on the right journey. If you look
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: at my life now, my beautiful family, I wouldn't change
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: that for the world. Andy, and I wouldn't have got there.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I met my girlfriend, we were working as
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: substance misuse specialists together in a clinic. That's where my
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: journey led me. We had the most wonderful child. But
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I'm just I still can't believe it. I think God
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: was having a bloody day off when he made that deasion.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: You know, I think he'd been on the absinthe or something.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: So I think that my yeah, I'm not saying that
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: when people have been upset along the way when I've
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: upset people that I'm proud of that or anything, but
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: it is just the way it is. I can only
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: take today because it's only today that exists. So we
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: need a societal change of thinking that when you see
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: someone struggling that as the Chinese say, yes it's crisis,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: but crisis represents opportunity and growth. Did for you, did
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: for me? Would be great, guys to go and sit
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: in a pub with Soorr. I shouldn't said pub, Should
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I pub for your alcohol free beverage? Folks? That is
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: what I meant, you know, and in fact that alcohol
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: free Guinness is really really nice. Actually, I think I
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: might just stop the podcast now and go and have
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: one now. So he's when my journey led. I'm not
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: sure how this transposes onto somebody else, Andy, I genuinely don't.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you need to reach the right time,
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: but I'm chucking this out in case it resonates with
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: someone who's struggling or a professional out there who wants
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: to learn more. This is actually how it was. My
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: life got so low. I was still in that denial.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I was still self medicating with the drugs. You know,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't even drink funny enough. That was never my issue.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Then I went on to drink a lot when I kicked,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: you know, when I taped the drugs down. But I
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: got so low. I was there living in a smashed
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: up hovel, no friends, no nothing like that solitary existence.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: My fortnightly shot I was like one pound eighty six.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not taking a piss. All the rest of it,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: you know what it's like. All the rest of it
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: went on gear. That was my priority. I'd go and
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: buy white sliced loaf for you know, seventeen p back
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: in the white label, you know, the supermarket own brand
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: days when it just started. I mean, I'd buy like
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: a big five kilo bag of pasta and a five
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: kilo bag of porridge oats for eightype each or something.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: I lived on porridge and pasta with as much milk
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: as I could preciously spare. The rest was water twenty
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: sugars for energy because I was starving all the time.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: And feed them intends to do that to you. I'd
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: rock it up in the micro rock it up. I'd
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: cook it up in a microwave, and then I'd eat
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: it like a wild animal. Andy, that's how starving and
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: emaciated I was all the time. I just I could
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: getting them calories in your body. You've never tasted nirvana
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: like it it was. I can't explain that in words anyway.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: I'm cold, I'm shivering. I'm lying on the floor where
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: i'd in my box of shorts, where I crashed out
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: after not sleeping for probably anything up to nine days.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't sleep for And I woke up and I
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: was ravenous, and I wanted to go out to the shop,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: but I couldn't go because I was too ashamed of myself.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: You know, I was a mess. I had marks down
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: the arm, there's clothes I wore I'd nicked off a
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: heroin dealer in Oakhampton. And I could hear my neighbors
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: and the kids in the street outside playing football. I
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: knew if I went out, there'd be like Chris, Chris,
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: come and play football with us. And I couldn't face
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: some I couldn't face someone going, what's the matter with you?
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: You don't you know you're gradually looking sicker and sicker, right,
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: And so in that moment, I have my epiphany where
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: I suddenly saw that little child, that one who'd been
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: through stuff that he shouldn't have had to go through,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: the one that adults neglected, overlooked, you know, and abused.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: And I suddenly got it. Who was abusing that little kid? Now?
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: Now that kid's a man. I was doing it Andy.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: I was the one doing it to myself in some
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: misguided notion that I was living a rock and roll life.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: And I don't care. I'm going to do things my
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: way and if I want to, you know, drink whiskey
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: for breakfast and smoke whatever for I'm yeah, Chris, where's
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: it got?
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Your? Mate?
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Have a reality check. You used to be a handsome,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: bodybuilding marine driving a nearly new BMW with a business
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: in Hong Kong whilst d'ing the Marines with a mobile phone,
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: when people used to go, what's that? It's a phone?
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I know this is all ego bullshit, right, But back then,
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: when I'm crying, having this nervous breakdown, wondering why, I
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: was just like, what have you done to yourself? Mate?
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: What have you done? You've lost it all and you've
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: driven yourself to near death? And why? Because you're just
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: trying to soothe that in a child who got better
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: than he shouldn't have done. Mate. It's got to stop.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: It's got to fucking stop. And it stops now, Chris,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: it fucking stops now. You don't bow to fucking no one, mate,
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: You go out that door. And that was the thing. Yeah,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: I used to hold my head up high because you know,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: I was like that kid when they used to can
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: the kids in school or you know, batter them, which
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: was normal when I was at school and the kid
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: would go dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner, like because they couldn't
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: you know, they was going through abuse in their home
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: life and it was being manifesting as misbehavior or perceived
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: misbehavior in school. They didn't need another battering. This is
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: where my mind was, that I could see that little
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: kid now, you know. And so what I did, Andy,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: cut long story short. I did a few things. First off,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: I took action, so important. If you take action, the
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: universe gives you back tenfold. It just does. Nothing comes
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: from sitting on your asse, being miserable and ruminating, accept
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: more depression. My action at that point was only spend
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: ten quid a fortnight instead of all your benefits money,
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: just spend it, get it over and done with, have
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: your fucking fix and you quick high move on. You
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: know when you wake up and you're in that depressed
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: come down that horrible lonely play you you know, I
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: know that. You know when you've put your last quid
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: in the fruit machine in your turn and you're like,
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: oh fucking dumn it again. Other night, I've just spent
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: all my bloody monthly wages. I've got nothing, you know.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: Imagine that and being physically starving and exhausted and lonely
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: and depressed and anxious. Right, I thought, No, when you
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: wake up tomorrow, Chris, in that state, you're going to
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: get out of that. I slept in a sleeping bag
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: on a sofa bed for a year.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: Mate.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: I couldn't couldn't face going upstairs lonely on my own,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: and it sounds silly. Plus I couldn't afford to heat
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: heat heat the house, so I just lived in one
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: room door shut keeping heating. Right, thought, I'm going to
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: wake up tomorrow, rather than roll over and try and
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: sleep off the depression, I'm going to jump up, throw
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: open them curtains, and I'm going to say good morning sun,
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: thank you so much for giving me this opportunity called life,
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: because a lot of my mates are not here anymore.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: They died in horrible circumstances. And I'm here and I'm
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: going to smash it right. And then I'm going to
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: make myself a cup of tea, and I'm going to
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: get as much satisfaction from drinking a simple cup of
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: tea as I do from Bloody doing that stuff that's
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: killing me. And what happened was the next day, when
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: I woke up, I had taken the first step on
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: what is called the journey to enlightenment, actual physical step.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Now I'm not talking about that all the knowledge I'd
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: learned over the years, I'd taken that step, and the
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: universe recognized that andy because I was meeting it with
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: a higher energy. And when you raise your energy. Look
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: at happy people, where does life meet them It Bloody
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: meets them there, doesn't it. And they get happier and
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: they get there, and then life meets them there and
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: they achieve things, and they have nice circle of friends,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: they have good possession, you know, stuff that makes them happy.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: The dead the dead to death. And what happened when
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: I woke up, the sun was shining through the window,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: and I just knew it. I just took it as
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: a sign, and I felt physically different. I had changed
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: because I knew I'd access something that I hadn't done before.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what it was, but I can understand
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: when people use terms like God now or spirit universe,
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: although it's try and shy away from that sort of
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: talk because people think you're talking about religion and I'm
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: absolutely not. And I'd taken action, so I'd cut down
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: on the gear. I'd shown gratitude, morning sun, thank you,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: and most importantly, i left the past behind. I said,
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: stop carrying his ball and chain. It's all done and dusted.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Are you happy being you? Well sort of, yeah, Well
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: then that's the way it's had to be, isn't it
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: not nice? But you're still here. And in that moment,
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: I gave the people in the past that had done
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: me wrong because the universe had given me. In this moment,
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: it gave me true empathy, and I realized, Ah, they
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: was like that to me because they had all this
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: done to them, didn't they They thought this was normal,
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: This was their trauma. Response. Doesn't mean I'm saying what
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: they did was right. I'm not forgiving the action. I'm
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: forgiving the individual as I would want to be forgiven
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: for when I'd wrong people, and that was it. Andy.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: It took a lot of years to get to where
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I am now, and I can't believe that. You know,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: as I sitting now, I've chose to go without meat,
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: to go without drugs and alcohol, to live a frugal lifestyle,
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: to jog around the block in the morning, or go
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: gym or go for a swim, to have a hot
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: shower cold shower, to get back primate instinct and stimulate
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: the vegas nerve, which is you feel good, you know
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: your tree of life, you feel good system. I choose
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: when I get in a stressful situational stop reacting with
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: relationships with it. Put that to one side, connect with
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: this beautiful higher power that gave you everything and that
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: put you in paradise. Chris, and I don't aspire to
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: anyone else's journey. Sometimes the old green eyed monster gets you,
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: but I recognize it and I stop myself and I think, no,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: I'm wishing Andy good luck today. In reality, Andy's the
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: universe experiencing himself in another meat suit, just like me.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: So you're me and I'm you Andy, which kind of
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: makes it that easier, you know, and that was it.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: It's been It's been a long, long journey. I was
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: still refining it, rowing the Atlantic, you know. Last winter
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: found us, you know, found myself back on the beer again,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: just eating absolute not not absolute ship what people would
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: think was good, healthy meal, but you know, abundance of
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: carbohydrates flooding my body with sugar or glucose, putting up
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: my inflammation, putting up my you know, illness. So I've
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: said a lot again, but I just want people out
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: there to know my advice to you, if you're struggling,
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: leave the past behind, heal it, forgive and move on.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: Take action. Best. One of the best things I've ever
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: done to me, I was bunking with a mate when
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I wasn't very We went Chris, get down the job
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: center today. I was like, ah, no, I've got this.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: You know that he went no, get down the job.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I went down the job saying I got a job
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: as a barman. Didn't last very long because I was
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: still quite unwell, but it, you know, it showed me
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: that I had the power, just like making your bed
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: in the morning. So be grateful for this life because
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: a lot of people haven't got it, take action, leave
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: the past behind. Does that resonate at all with your story?
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: Andy, I just want to thank you for sharing it
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: because I know people will watch it and each help
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: for help or take their own action because it's massively,
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: massively powerful. You know, you don't come back from stuff
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: like crystal meth or you know, you don't break that easily,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: no chance, And you know I can relate it, of course,
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: I can relate to it. With the gambling and people.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: I think that's where the gambling I mentioned it before
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: in your podcast is is so misunderstood. The stigmatization, you know,
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: and it stops people each and out for help or
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: taking that action, because well, what you're going on about
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: is gambling. It's stupid. Actually, it's probably one of the
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: most damaging addictions you can have and probably one of
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: the hardest to break, you know. But I think hearing
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: you and saying about that taking action, that's exactly why again,
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: why we do the work we do today and why
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: we do this kind of podcast, is because there will
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: be people out there going, well, I can't I can't
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: do it. I can't do it. I'm just going it.
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: It's easier to end it. It's easier to take myself
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: out of it than it is to one have to
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: admit everything to people and two have to deal with
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: it and have to put the work in, because, let's
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: be honest, like you've just said, it is hard work.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: Anybody who thinks recovery is will you just stop one
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: day and you crack on your life for next Like,
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: good luck with that. You know. I still work daily
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: on it. I still do daily reflections. I still look
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: at why did I act the way I did yesterday? Like,
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: you know, even if I had a really good day yesterday,
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: why was it a good day? What did I do
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: differently to the day before that was a bad day?
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: Can I replicate that more So? It's a daily reflection.
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: And that gratitude you mentioned is a massive, massive part
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: of that is being grateful for where you are. I
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: mentioned to you before the show that there's you know,
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: stuff going on and I'm getting all excited about it
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: and everything else. And then you take a step back
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: and you go, do I really need that or do
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: I just need a simpler life? Like Because what happens
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: is when I'm busy and I'm doing all this and
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: doing all that, and I'm here there and everywhere. Actually
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: what gets left behind is my partner, you know, my children,
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: although their adult children, they're twenty five, twenty four and
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: you know, twenty one. The reality is I probably message
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: and once in the last ten days like what's all
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: that about? Why am I not messaging them every day?
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: But I'm emailing people and messaging people and taking training
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: every single day for hours at a time, and I'm
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: neglecting them again. You know, they might be just living
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: their own life going I forgot about dad. Maybe that's
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: the case, but I need to know that I'm doing
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: the right thing. And one thing that used to really
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: bug me with my partner, She's very much about do
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: the right thing and you know, the right thing will
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: be done by you. Anything in the universe means for
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: you will not pass you by. And I was like, oh, like,
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: you know, I used to get frustrated with it because
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: I'm like, you're just full of it. It's all this
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: spiritual stuff, and you know what, it's so so true.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: I get out of life what I put into it.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: If I want to go back to what I've done,
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: and I harmed people through theft, through fraud, through my behavior, narcissism, gaslighting,
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: all of those things I've done. If I put that
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: out there, I'm getting it back. Karma is a real
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: thing and it is coming back at me. Whereas today,
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: I would give up my only spare hour to go
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: and support somebody because I know that they need that hour.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: And when I do that, the next day, something good happens.
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: Well the next month or the next year or whatever.
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: And it's not about money, it really isn't. I could
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: probably go off and try and find other jobs and
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: more money and do this. You know, you need money
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: to live, and money is you know, terrible at times.
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: But actually what matters is people. And I keep saying
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: this when we see big, big organizations out there professing
• 59:28
  Speaker 3: to offer all of this support and offer that support.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: And I've done a lot of work in prisons recently,
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: and a lot of veterans in prisons very similar stories
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: for our own, very damaged. And I'll continue to do
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: that work because you know, I can just see the
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: need and actually they need that people like yourself, people
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: like me who they can look and go. Actually, if
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: he can do it, and he can do it, I
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: can definitely do it. You know, I'm not as bullsed
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: up as they are, you know, but we see a
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: lot of people saying we offer this support. We offer
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: that support, especially within the veteran world, and you know
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: even within the recovery space. We do work in prisons.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: No you don't. You know, I was talking to somebody
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: the other day and it's very all fair coat and
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: no nickers, you know, And it really bugs me now
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: because actually you could give an organization one hundred thousand
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: pounds and they'll run an advertising campaign with it. Or
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: you could give a small organization one hundred thousand pounds
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: and they will go and reach a thousand people that
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: year or even ten people and really change their lives.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: So it's you know, I've gone off on a tangent,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: but it's about this support system that you're a part
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: of and I'm a part of, is supporting people and
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: giving them just our insights. You know, we haven't got
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: all the answers. You know, there's peer support out there,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: there's therapy out there, there's counseling this you know, psychiatrists
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: if you need that level. There's rehab centers. But the
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: reality is it all goes back to what you said,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: which is you have to take action. You know, I
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: cannot drag somebody there. Well I can. I can drag
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: them to rehab, but they'll be leaving the next day.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: It has to come from you. If you're struggling today,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: whether that be gambling, during other substances, whatever that may be,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: you know, the help is there, and it also comes
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: down to yourself. You've got to want it. You've got
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: to want to do it, because if you don't, you
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: will end up taking yourself out of the game.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. So to summarize, I'll just say a few things
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: in our handover to you. Always reach out for help, friends,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: if you're out there struggling in any way, take that
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: action that I did. I never went to any self
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: help groups. I was always back when I had my problems.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: The only real option was NA you know, the form
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: of a form of AA and I just knew coming
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: from a sort of pride background, you know, I was
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: never a victim in my story, although clearly I sort
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: of was right, but in my mind, you know, I
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: couldn't be around people telling me that I was damaged
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: or that I was a broken machine, and I just
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: had to accept that that fuck off. I'm a massive legend.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: That's just how it is. I think everyone is a
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: massive legend. I'm not going to join a group that purposely,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: and I'm not not not knocking at all. If you
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: got kids and you're struggling and they're going to lose
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: their daddy or their mummy, get yourself to whatever works
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: for you. But what did work for me is I
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: reached out to the rural British Legion. It was the
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: right time. They gave me a career grant. They applied
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: to a few different funding streams, Sappher and the like,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: and they got me two thousand pounds together. And so
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: I retrained as a development worker and I went to
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: work in Mozambique to teach street kids as a volunteer.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't get paid for it or anything.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: Just it was a brilliant part of my healing experience,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: you know, getting myself back online again. But folks, my advice,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: you know, reach out. If you were in a troop
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: and you ain't got the bulls to hold you around
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: up and say, look sarge, I'm fucking struggling a bit here,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: then you're not being brave and strong. You're the weakest link.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: And so reach out. There's a great organization called smart recovery.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: If your thing is substance abuse, very hard to feel
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: any degree of positivity towards life if you're battling substance abuse,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: simply for the depressing nature of it. So reach out.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: Be careful taking advice from friends because they're not qualified,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: and they'll just say, oh, Andy, stopped you. Just stop that,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: ship mate, Just stop it, as though it's oh so simple. Remember,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: you're massively loved, way more than you know. If you
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: go taking yourself out of it, you can. You have
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: no idea how many thousands I'm going to say people
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: will shed it for you. How do I know that? Well,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: we've just seen it happen in the Marines community. You know.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Friend of mine put absolutely horrific goodbye post on Facebook.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: It was very what can you say? It was full
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: of love and it was a gentle but to read
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: that by the time you read this, I will no
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: longer be here. It broke so many people. And the
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: crazy thing is is when I went to message him
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: and go, no, don't be silly, you know, pick up
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: the phone. I tried everything. Our last conversation was he
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: mailed me something while I was rowing the Atlantic, and
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: our message back our nice one legend, kiss kiss, and
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: he went, no, Chris, you're a legend. You're so inspirational
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: for people kiss kiss or something like that, you know.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: And to think when he messaged me that he was
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: just about to take his own life. And I meant it.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: When I said you're a legend, I meant that. And
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: it reminded me of the time when I was in
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: the Northern Ireland conflict. I shared a two man room
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: or grot, I think we used to call it. And
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: I won't say the chap's name, but eid a corporal
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: in mine, Lance Jack, and he kind of had quite
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: a rough time by the troop. He was the brunt
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: of a lot of you know, not banter but bully
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: bullying basically. But he was a good guy. And he
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: said to me, and he said he had a photo
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: of his wife topless in like mar Bayer or wherever
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: it has been on holiday, those things that you know,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: we used to do. And he sort of points at
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: her one day, Andy and he says, yeah, it's not
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: going that well. We've been married two years and I've
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: seen her for three months or I've seen her for
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: three months a year, and he listed all these exercises
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: in Norway's and Arctic Northern Islands that he'd done. And
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: next thing you know, he's taking himself out the game,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: just literally just up the road from my dad's house.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: Funny enough, and I always sort of regret that I
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: never had a chance to just tell him I really
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: like you. You know. I used to hear the banter,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: but I saw through that. You know, I thought you
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: was a good guy. Plus you really helped me out
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: once when someone was lying about me, and you stood
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: up and said, no, that guy's not telling the truth.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: I know for a fact because of this and that,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: you know, sometimes you need one person to have you
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: back when you're facing the wrath of others. So I'll
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: say to anyone out there, if you're in a dark place, member,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: you're massively loved. It's just that society doesn't make you
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: feel like that. It always brings the monster's clothes and
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: puts the angels far away. But in reality it's probably
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: the other way around. So take action, reach out. Remember
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: you're massively loved. And also you're on the Warriors journe.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: As wrong as it might seem, or as dark as
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: it might seem, this is the universe looking at you,
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: and he's saying, Andy, you're a massive legend, mate, but
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: you haven't realized it yet. And your actions, you know,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: they're not going to lead you to happiness and that
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: nirvana that we all seek. So I'm going to chuck
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: some challenges in front of you. In your case, it's
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: going to be gambling, mate. You're going to try to
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: appease your childhood trauma by self medicating through the high
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: you get from putting money in then machines or betting
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: on blood you bet the betfread app or whatever, and
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: it's going to take you so low. Do you know
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: what you're going to find? Me. You're going to find God,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: You're going to find universe. You're going to find the
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: meaning of life. I sent you on this journey. Don't
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: let me down. I want to see you come back
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: from it. And this is I think what people need
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: to understand. Be proud of your journey, you know, and
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: then at the right point, leave it behind, move on
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: with move on with your life. That's what I've got
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: to add over to you. Andy.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a hell of a journey. And there will
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: be people out there today, as you say, on their
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: own journey their own really rough road of a journey,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: you know. And I used to look back and think,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: why couldn't I just add a normal life? But actually
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: I look back now and would I have all of
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: the knowledge I've got now? Would I have the resilience
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: I've got now? Would I have any of that if
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: I hadn't been through what I've been through? And you
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: look at the work I do now, and I'm fortunate
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: enough to be able to do, you know, with the
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: armed forces gambling? Would I be able to go back
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: into a barracks this afternoon and go and talk to
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 3: a load of army lads and make sure that actually
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: all of those mates. You talk about opening up to
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: your mates, and it probably is the worst thing you
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: can do, not because they're horrible people, or they don't
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: believe you've got a problem. They feel massively uncomfortable and
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: they don't know how to help. So the easiest thing
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: to do is make a joke of it. But because
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: they make a joke of it, you think they don't care.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: They do, They really care, you know. And I think
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: that's what we were saying earlier when I got to
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: the points of wanting to take myself out of all
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: of this. You know, if I had opened up to
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: a mate at that point, it's probably laugh and joke
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: and take the piss because he feels uncomfortable. But what
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: that would do is potentially tip me over the edge
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: because if even my closest mate isn't able to help.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: And that's where, you know, I talk a lot and
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: massive advocate for peer support for using that lived experience,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 3: and that's great. And what I believe we can do,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: or I can do and you can do, is we
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: can take those people from being really reticent to reaching
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: out for help and to take an action by telling
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: our own stories, by talking like we do, by being very,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: very honest, we can get them to the point that
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: they will believe in us enough and believe that therapy, counseling,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: whatever whichever route they want to take is safe for them.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: So we have a lot of clinicians that say, oh,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: lived experience, peer support, it's not good. They don't know
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: what they're doing. It can be dangerous, it can be this.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: Do you know what. Without that peer support breaking down
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 3: those initial barriers, especially within the armed forces, those people
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: will not ever get to therapy. You know. So you
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: either put us in first, reach out to us today
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: and just have a chat to us. That's all we're doing.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: You know, if they message you after this, they can
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: message me after this, find me on social media, do whatever,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: find a way to get older one of us and
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: say mate, I'm absolutely just wrecked, and we will go, yeah,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: get it. You know what, you know, what do you
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: need from us? Because that's the question I always ask
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: is what do you want for me? What do you
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: need from me? And actually just to listen, mate, yeah,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 3: no worries. You know, I don't need to delve into
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: their deep and why. You know, we all have to
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: understand our why. But the reality is if you try
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: and get to that why too soon, you can really
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: do some damage to people and you can tip them
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: to that edge of wanting to take themselves out. So
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: it is a balancing game between getting them the right support.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: But that's why we're there. We're not there to preach,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: we're not there to we just get it, you know,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: And recovery takes so many Like you'll get some organizations
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: say well, therapy is the only way, eight to twelve sessions,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: and that's what we actually it just takes different different
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: routes doesn't it your route. You know, you'll take action.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: You're strong, you'll do that yourself. And it's hard and
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: it's horrible. Others will go on peer support groups. I
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: used to think they're going to be like a Jeremy
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: Carle show. Genuinely when I come out of rehab and
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: I thought, I'm not going on a pier sport group.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: It's going to be a load of people I don't
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: get on with. I don't know, and actually I'm not
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: as bad as them. And you know what, I found
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 3: some of the best people, the most genuine people in
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: my life are in recovery, you know. So yeah, absolutely,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: that's where I want to leave. It is just please
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: just reach out. It's not soft, it's not weak, it's
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: not gay, it's not whatever you want to call it.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: It's just protecting yourself from making sure you don't end up.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: I read that guy's there and I didn't know him.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: I wasn't friends with him like you were, and it
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: hit It hit hard because I've written a letter like
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: that before and you just think, wow, you know, and
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: you see the outpouring and I think the damage I
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: would cause to a lot of people by taking myself
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: out you know, actually there are people out there that
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: everybody has. I've done so much in my life and
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: there's still people that will support me and love me.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: So nobody's ever too broken. You're never too old, You're
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: never too broken. It could always be turned around.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Thank you Andy. Friends, I hope you've got something
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: out of this. Please understand, this is an extreme situation
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: that the military, by nature of the fact, it's still
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: going to recruit from this pool of potentially damaged young
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: people for you know higher up that we don't even
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: need to discuss here. That's why it requires people like
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: myself and Andy that have insight to have the tough conversation.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: Please ask you to respect that. Respect Andy, respect me
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: in your comments. If you've haven't got anything nice to say,
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: then it's best not to say it because you don't
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: know what mood I might be in when I read it,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: and I'm a father, I've got people that really on me.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: You don't know what mood Andy might be in. And
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: in addition, what you say that represents where you are
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: in life, not where other people are. So I'll just
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: say that, be respectful in your comments, Appreciate this is
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: a tough conversation to have, folks, but it needs to
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: be had, and we'll put Andy's details below so you
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: can get hold of him. My email is on my
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: website or my YouTube channel and if you can like
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: and subscribe, that'll be wonderful, folks, click the notification bell. Also,
• 1:13:35
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• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: you can do so through our locals platform, which is
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: our unsensored platform. That's where we can talk about anything
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: we like and why life is a bit strange and
• 1:13:49
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• 1:13:53
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• 1:13:56
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• 1:14:01
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• 1:14:09
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• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: join us at. There we go, Andy, Thanks again, mate,
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: massive love to everyone, look after yourselves. Cheers, cheers friends.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Bought the t Shirt Podcast.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: Please like, subscribe, and share, and don't forget to follow
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: me on social media use the name Chris Throw Instagram,
• 1:14:34
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• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you