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Building a Bold Career in Male-Dominated Industries with Gwen Wiscount · Loud & Lifted

0:00
Welcome to Loud and Lifted. I'm your host, Betsy
0:03
Hamm, and today's guest is someone I've known
0:05
for nearly two decades, and I knew back then
0:09
she was going places. Gwen was count as a powerhouse
0:12
who's built a career across sales strategy and
0:15
leadership in some of the most male -dominated
0:18
industries out there. In this episode, Gwen shares
0:21
what it means to build a strong foundation early
0:23
in your career, how to turn your life's transitions
0:26
into launch pads, and why asking for what you
0:29
want is a non -negotiable skill. She shares the
0:32
hinge philosophy, those small moments and choices
0:34
that swing big doors. It's something everybody
0:37
needs in their playbook. Whether you're just
0:40
getting started, pivoting, or pushing for your
0:42
next level, this episode will fire you up to
0:45
bet on yourself with confidence. Welcome Gwen
0:57
to Loud and Lifted. Thank you so much for being
1:00
here. Thank you so much for having me. It's so
1:02
good to see you. Yes, you too. I feel like I'm
1:05
gonna feel really old doing this episode because
1:08
we have to go back to the beginning of our relationship
1:12
was 17 years ago and you were the intern on my
1:17
team and I was also maternally we were just talking
1:20
about so that feels like a lifetime ago and here
1:24
we are with this amazing career that you've had
1:26
over the last 17 years. But it feels like yesterday,
1:29
right? It does. And it's so funny because while
1:32
I was only the promotions intern for a summer,
1:36
so roughly four months, I was obviously part
1:38
of the H &R brand, the Hershey and Tim resorts
1:41
brand for a little bit longer than that prior
1:43
to that internship. But it's so funny now that
1:46
my current role in what we're building is in
1:49
person. I tend to always go back to a lot of
1:52
those experiences that I learned 17 years ago
1:56
in those early days of being in the seat of a
1:59
small intern in this massive company and learning
2:02
from all these incredible people around me. That's
2:05
amazing. I love that you're still going back
2:06
to things from that long ago. Well, and I go
2:08
back to that long ago. I mean, through my career,
2:10
I've had so many different interns on our teams
2:12
and, you know, there's the great, amazing, there's
2:15
the maybe not so great. But you stood out even
2:18
17 years ago when you started and we're trying
2:21
to keep you on my team. Like, just stay here.
2:23
We'll find a job for you. Because you were this
2:26
amazing rock star, even when you were 21, 22,
2:30
looking at you. It's kind of like, all right.
2:32
this girl's going to be going places. So when
2:35
you go back to that time, like, you know, what
2:37
were you thinking as you had a great internship,
2:40
you did other internships, like going back to
2:42
that time in your 20s? Were you like, I'm going
2:44
to go set the world on fire? Like, what was your
2:46
thought process even back then? Yeah, I think
2:50
Looking back, I actually switched my major in
2:54
college to marketing at that point in time and
2:57
I applied for that role. I remember I was selected
3:00
out of I think like 120 applications, I was told
3:02
by HR. It was almost like I've been given this
3:06
incredible opportunity. I felt honored to have
3:09
the opportunity, but then I also felt this not
3:12
pressure, but excitement to take it and make
3:16
it. what I wanted it to be by all of these opportunities
3:19
and these people around me. So when I took the
3:22
role and I think just like the day to day of
3:23
the role, I was, I was this sponge of, you know,
3:27
on day two, JB was like, Hey, we're not going
3:31
to do a tour of the park. You're going to learn
3:33
about radio promotions and you're going to be
3:34
like running that for us now. I had no idea.
3:38
I had no idea what I was doing, right? No one
3:40
actually does, but it was a nice opportunity
3:43
to be given a lot of responsibility at such a
3:46
young age, then that trust and confidence that
3:48
I was capable for taking on this big responsibility
3:51
on behalf of this massive brand. But I also think
3:54
as part of that, I was able to have that confidence,
3:57
yes, from experiences before, from I was an athlete
4:00
growing up, so it was... I was always around
4:02
coaches that believed in me, pushed me, allowed
4:04
me to continue to exercise who I naturally was.
4:08
But with that in mind, I think that the one thing
4:11
that I always kind of mentally go back to at
4:14
my time at Hershey is, that was the, again, I've
4:18
been now working, working, I said quote working,
4:21
as far as post -grad or post -degree, Hershey
4:25
was the only time that actually had female executives
4:27
around me. Like that's crazy, right? you were
4:32
running, you were the director of promotions.
4:33
And then of course, the infamous, your episode
4:36
number one, Kim Schaller, the sales and marketing
4:41
rockstar that she is, this powerhouse she was
4:43
leading. She was at the helm of this massive
4:46
ship that we were running. And I think just walking
4:49
in every day, the excitement of what was there,
4:52
but also the excitement that everyone had around
4:54
us and building this brand and not just building
4:58
the brand, but Almost like this gravitational
5:03
pull that Kim has about her, I think almost emulated
5:07
down to everyone else in the department to almost
5:10
then rise to the occasion. I wanted to do good
5:13
work to make you look good in your role as director
5:16
of promotions. You, and I'm not going to speak
5:19
for you, but likely went to do good work to...
5:23
uplift Kim and carry out her vision for what
5:26
she wanted this to be. I really felt that while
5:29
I was there. I think that was one of the things
5:31
that I really latched onto and became passionate
5:36
about. Again, doing quality work, doing good
5:38
work, but also at the end of the day, your product
5:41
is a definition and representation of yourself.
5:46
Exactly. I wanted to leave there and be like,
5:48
I did this, people can speak highly of me. I'm
5:52
proud of what I've done. That's amazing that
5:54
you realize that at 21 or 22 because there's
5:58
women a lot older with a lot more experience
5:59
who still don't realize it's about making your
6:02
team look good, whether they're reporting to
6:04
you or the person you report to. It's making
6:07
people look good around you. It also makes you
6:09
look good too, but it's a team effort almost
6:12
all the time. Absolutely. It's that leveling
6:15
up or rather managing up that I think a lot of
6:19
you almost like you don't know what that word
6:20
is at the time, right? But it's, it's, you know,
6:24
they always say like a mentorship, like bring
6:26
people along with you. But it's also like who's
6:29
ahead of you that you can keep like propping
6:30
up in a way too. No, it's so important. So when
6:34
you left Hershey, it's interesting you said that
6:36
you've been in I mean, you've pretty much been
6:37
a male dominated industries the rest of your
6:40
career. So how's that been with you with your
6:42
fire and your energy and your excitement going
6:45
into industries where it's you're surrounded
6:48
by men? Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Right after
6:51
Hershey, I then took a sales role in a very unsexy
6:54
industry. I was selling containers for regulated
6:56
material. Of course, industrial, chemical, manufacturing,
7:02
predominantly male. Then after that, I built
7:05
a company with some colleagues, and I was the
7:09
only female partner. Also, our clients were founders
7:13
in C -Level, which predominantly are men. So
7:17
I quickly in my 20s majority of my career has
7:20
been either selling to men, working for men,
7:25
or consulting men. And it's almost like one of
7:29
those things when people would ask me, who are
7:31
your mentors? I actually didn't know what to
7:34
say because I feel like the right answer would
7:36
have been Betsy and it's you you I think of you
7:40
more of a role model versus a mentor because
7:42
you weren't really part of my day to day but
7:44
you were this vision as well as Kim of like what
7:47
a female executive looks like right but when
7:49
I think back to kind of those 20s my 20s and
7:52
obviously now I'm in a different position not
7:55
really male dominated which is great but during
7:58
that time I think The thing that I got really
8:02
excited about was I didn't really look at it
8:05
as male or female. I just looked at it as what
8:08
can I do to continue to show up and keep putting
8:09
myself in the room at the table? I have a voice.
8:13
I have a point of view. and making sure that
8:15
was always part of the conversation. So I think
8:17
with that, it was a lot of confidence building
8:20
out of the gate, very much like take it till
8:22
you make it in a way. And I think back to when
8:25
we started my first company, Full Funnel, I was
8:28
26, walking into these clients who were typically
8:33
men and typically had very prominent degrees
8:37
of MIT, Harvard, and they were the founder of
8:40
these companies. I, this sales and marketing
8:44
girl, was there to tell them how to take their
8:47
company to market and run it. Who the heck was
8:49
I? Oh my gosh. It was one of those things where
8:52
it's like you had to just keep doing the thing.
8:55
I was not an expert in their field or I was not
8:57
an expert in their company, but I was an expert
8:59
at sales and marketing and continuing to double
9:03
down in what I knew and being confident in my
9:07
competence. And it's almost like the areas that
9:10
I wasn't as confident in, the repetition of doing
9:14
and the repetition of like asking questions,
9:17
you know, being a self -starter and a reader
9:20
and finding out the answers that kind of allowed
9:24
me to eventually have both like the confidence
9:25
and competence to do my job very well. And I
9:28
would also say that a lot of my experiences in
9:32
those roles that I had, it also came from a very
9:35
like growth mindset, right? I always, you know,
9:37
I say like, knowledge is power. And I always
9:40
made sure to, you know, take off, take every
9:43
opportunity and like identify as how can this,
9:45
how can this lead to experience? And then like,
9:48
how does that experience like shape me? I always
9:50
look back to even today, I can tell you every
9:53
single hinge moment that led me to what I'm doing
9:56
exactly right now. And it was typically because,
9:59
yeah, so there was actually a really cool book,
10:02
it's called hinge. And it's all about how It's
10:05
kind of the same premise of the alchemist, right?
10:08
So the alchemist, the thought and theory is essentially
10:10
they're omens. And if you're aware of the omens,
10:13
you can take advantage of those omens. Whereas
10:16
with the hinge moments, it's almost like you're
10:18
given an opportunity to open the door. It's a
10:21
hinge moment to start something new. So my first
10:25
job, I had a mentor who was a male and I looked
10:30
to him a lot for kind of telling him exactly
10:33
what I wanted to do. I'm like, I want to move
10:34
to Boston. He's like, make a plan, go for it,
10:36
do it. Hinge moment. I then did that. I then
10:40
told him, I really want to go work for a startup.
10:42
I know it sounds crazy, but I want to go work
10:44
for a startup. Two weeks later, hinge moment.
10:47
He's like, hey, I'm starting a sales and marketing
10:49
company. Do you want in? I was like, yep. Two
10:52
weeks later, we started the company. So it's
10:54
almost like if I didn't take that job in Florida,
10:56
my first right out of college, I wouldn't have
11:00
met my mentor at the time, who's a client of
11:02
mine, I wouldn't have gotten the opportunity
11:06
at 26 to build a company to get this insane amount
11:09
of experience, right? 45 different companies,
11:12
26 different industries, taking companies to
11:15
market, products to market, sales, services,
11:17
products, SaaS, B2B, that was kind of my main
11:20
game, but you can't get that amount of experience.
11:24
Right. Oh my gosh. most times in a career, let
11:26
alone six years, right? So I think of that opportunity
11:31
led me then to my next one. So it's almost like
11:33
these hinge moments of being able to kind of
11:36
in reverse go back and kind of map out, I made
11:39
this decision or I made this choice and that
11:43
led to X and that it led to Y and that it led
11:48
to Z, right? So yeah, a lot of my 20s was kind
11:51
of those hinge moments and kind of launching
11:54
me in now truly this kind of career I'm in now.
11:58
And which is crazy because people get, I think,
12:01
hung up, especially when they're young in their
12:02
20s, like, oh, I want to be a director. I want
12:05
to be whatever. I want to be VP. They get very
12:07
focused on the title versus the actual experience
12:10
or the industry. So it seems like your hinge
12:13
moments were like you just wanted to do something
12:15
different. You wanted a different experience.
12:18
You were involved in a different industry. You
12:19
were just trying to build that foundation of
12:22
what could potentially happen in the future.
12:24
I always think back to my 22 -year -old self
12:26
when I met with you at, is it called the Hershey
12:31
Pantry? No, not Hershey Pantry. I forget what
12:33
it was called, but we got coffee. On that day,
12:36
I was given two job opportunities, my dream job
12:39
at Hershey, which they basically created for
12:41
me, and the opportunity to go work for a company
12:45
in Florida. I have never been to Tampa, that's
12:48
where it was located. I was so stressed out,
12:51
22, I'm like, this is going to be like. monumental,
12:54
I have to make this big choice. And remember
12:56
you said matter of fact, I think Kennedy was
12:59
probably like this. Yeah, sorry. Kennedy was
13:01
probably like in the carrier. Oh, completely,
13:06
completely. And yeah, and I just remember you
13:09
saying, well, nothing's permanent. And it kind
13:12
of just like rolled off your tongue. So like,
13:15
naturally, you're like, nothing's permanent.
13:17
Go. If you don't like it, you can always come
13:19
back. Right. And that was kind of the same advice
13:21
that my mom had given me. And I think that like,
13:23
because I, that was my foundation, like in the
13:27
early stages of my career that like, you can
13:29
take risks, just try something on, make a choice,
13:33
see what it looks like. If you don't like it,
13:36
you can always change it. Right. And I think
13:38
just like having the ability to almost have that,
13:41
almost like exhale. Sure. Right. Like this, the
13:45
job that you get at 22 is not the job you're
13:47
going to have probably two years from there.
13:49
rather five years from now, right? And in my
13:51
case, 17 years, right? That's just not how it
13:54
works, right? But so often we think that it's
13:57
this big decision we have to make, and it's life
14:00
or death, and it's, well, no. What do you want
14:02
the next two years to look like, or even maybe
14:05
five years? Don't think about, I hate five -year
14:07
plans. I can't even tell you what I'm going to
14:08
do in five years from now. We're going to just
14:10
do next two years, right? Yep. That's a great
14:12
plan. Yeah. People feel stuck, and I get that.
14:15
Sometimes you are stuck, but it's not. permanent
14:19
from a job perspective. And I think nowadays,
14:21
I feel like maybe early in my career, people
14:23
were employees were more loyal to companies.
14:26
Like once you got to a certain company, you weren't
14:28
going to leave, you're going to retire from there
14:30
and be there 25, 30 years. I remember even being
14:32
21, 22 and be like, I cannot stay at the same
14:34
place for 25, 30 years. Some people can, and
14:37
that's great. But I think especially these younger
14:39
generations, it's the diversity and mixing it
14:44
up and not feeling stuck. And it's a lot easier
14:46
now to work for companies that maybe you can
14:48
do remote or hybrid or whatnot, but yeah, it's
14:51
not permanent from a job perspective. So if you're
14:54
somewhere you don't like it, then look for something
14:56
else. I mean, you have to be doing what's right
14:59
for you, for sure. So kind of tying into your
15:02
20s, you actually had a post on LinkedIn, I think
15:05
it was just last week or so, and I loved it.
15:08
you talked about a book that's called The Defining
15:10
Decade and how it struck a chord with you. Now
15:12
that you're in your, can we say your late thirties?
15:16
But 38. Oh my gosh. See, again, that makes me
15:19
old because whatever. But anyway, but that was
15:22
something that impacted you 15 years ago. So
15:25
talk to us about that book and how that thought
15:27
process and how you give that book to people
15:29
graduating still to this day. Yeah. Yeah. I,
15:33
I will. give it to everyone who's graduating,
15:36
I will also talk about it quite regularly, because
15:39
I think that it's an important message that we
15:41
can just plant into the minds of those early
15:45
grads, or just again, like people starting on
15:46
their 20s. The book The Defining Decade is all
15:48
about how essentially your 20s is the foundation
15:51
of your career, and kind of what you think of
15:54
as the definition of success. And the reality
15:56
is that that's different for everyone, right?
15:59
At that time in my life, it was Having a good
16:03
job that was defined by title autonomy. So not,
16:07
I actually left corporate. I did a lot of internships
16:10
in corporate, but I was like, I want more control.
16:13
I want more autonomy. I want to be able to move
16:16
the ball on my own without all this red tape.
16:19
And I actually have been mainly in startups since
16:22
then because of that. But when I think about
16:24
my 20s, it really is that foundation of how can
16:27
you set yourself up in your 20s? to again be
16:31
a sponge get as much experience as possible to
16:34
almost like set yourself up for your 30s 40s
16:37
and beyond and it was all about if and there's
16:41
no right or wrong way right it's not like oh
16:43
you messed up your 20s you're behind but the
16:46
book is all about if you do the due diligence
16:49
and put your time and effort into again just
16:52
being more intentional. That's really what it
16:54
is. It's being more intentional with your career
16:56
and the opportunities that you're taking or looking
17:00
for. And again, that continued forward momentum,
17:04
right? I think that is really what, if I go back,
17:08
it's always that forward momentum, saying yes
17:10
to opportunities, communicating. I always say,
17:14
you don't get what you don't ask for. If you
17:17
want something, tell someone. so that more people
17:20
know and they can help you. And again, every
17:23
single job I've had, it's because I told someone
17:25
what I wanted. And then it was, oh, you should
17:28
talk to so and so, or hey, do you want to start
17:30
this company? Or I'm actually starting a company,
17:32
do you want to come with me? And really that's
17:34
what it is. It's being intentional in those years
17:36
to gain experience that you believe will help
17:40
you one day. I love that. That's such a good
17:43
point. And part of that too, I think that you've
17:44
always been good at is that connection in the
17:46
relationship. So you were telling somebody that
17:48
you want to do this, but it wasn't somebody who
17:50
didn't have the ability to help you or connect
17:52
the dots for you. So, you know, I think building
17:55
those relationships at any point in your career
17:57
is really important because then you can say,
17:59
Hey, I need help with this or do you know how
18:01
I can get a job here or do this? So it's making
18:04
those connections to help you connect the dots
18:06
to that next adventure. Yeah, absolutely. And
18:09
it's always and it echoes back to again, like
18:11
that experience at Hershey, which is doing good
18:13
work and having people it's not mentorship, but
18:17
sponsorship, where how are people talking about
18:20
you when you're not in the room? By doing that
18:23
good work, by being top of mind, are they making
18:26
the recommendations to others about you? Whether
18:29
or not they have the opportunity or not, but
18:30
someone else might. I have people all the time
18:33
reaching out to me, past employees, past clients,
18:37
hey Gwen, I'm applying for this job, you're connected
18:40
to so -and -so, can you make it in? Fun fact,
18:45
that's life. That is career. If you want a job,
18:47
find out. Well, that goes back to the exposure
18:51
piece. At some point, we're going to have someone
18:53
to talk on about pie, but I don't know if you
18:55
were ever part of the pie conversations. That
18:57
might have been after you left, but it's performance,
18:59
image, and exposure, and that's your pie. Crazy
19:02
from a research perspective, performance is the
19:04
smallest piece of the pie. It's your image and
19:07
your exposure. That's to your point. You could
19:09
be doing an amazing job, but if nobody knows
19:11
you're doing it, then - It doesn't matter. And
19:14
you can probably think of people who tend to
19:16
be women throughout your career who were rocking
19:18
it, head down, getting stuff done, but nobody
19:20
knew what they did because they just were behind
19:23
the scenes. So making sure you can tell people
19:26
what you're doing in a calm and confident way.
19:29
You don't have to be cocky about it, but yeah,
19:31
you got to have that exposure or it doesn't matter.
19:34
Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, if
19:37
you don't get something because someone doesn't
19:39
know that you've done the work or have the experience,
19:41
You can't fault them for it. If anything, how
19:45
did you not communicate your value or your experience
19:49
to almost put your hat in the ring? It goes back
19:52
to you don't get what you don't ask for. If you
19:54
just think that someone's going to find you because
19:56
you're doing great work, the reality is that's
19:58
likely not going to happen. It may, but not for
20:01
quite some time. Again, owning your destiny.
20:07
It sounds so like woo -woo, but if you want something,
20:11
go get it. If you want a job, if you want a certain
20:14
thing, you have to be able to confidently say,
20:17
this is why, this is how. And I always say, women
20:21
hate talking about themselves, but you know what?
20:23
Everyone else does it. Men love doing it. Why
20:26
don't we do it? Right? Back to the Lean In book
20:30
that was, you know, for, gosh, 20 years ago or
20:32
so. Most women do not apply for jobs if they
20:35
do not meet at least four other criteria. Whereas
20:38
men, as long as they Align with two, they'll
20:41
apply. Interesting. I do remember that. Yeah.
20:44
Yeah. We think we have to hit all criteria and
20:46
be perfect and that's definitely not the case.
20:49
No. No. Just go ahead and be confident. Absolutely.
20:52
Absolutely. People also, I would say even I've
20:54
hired many people in my day. Yes, if you can
20:58
do the job from front to back and you've done
20:59
this a million times in so many other roles,
21:01
that's fantastic. You can add value on day one.
21:06
I kind of like when they come in a little bit
21:08
greener so that there's opportunity to coach.
21:12
And again, because I get a lot of fulfillment
21:14
out of that, but again, be able to form what
21:18
that would look like together versus them coming
21:20
in with their experience and kind of, well, this
21:23
is how it should be done versus, well, this is
21:25
how we want it to be done together, right? It's
21:28
a place of growth and collaboration versus kind
21:31
of more kind of rigid, if you will. Right. Now
21:34
that makes sense. So let's talk about what you're
21:36
doing now. So now you're in your late 30s. So
21:40
you built your foundation, you're out there.
21:42
And now you're doing something totally different,
21:45
essentially, than what you've done before. Yeah.
21:48
Yes. So in 2023, I left my last company. I was
21:52
the chief revenue officer of an ad tech company.
21:54
And I kind of got the point in my life and I
21:55
was like, what am I doing, right? Again, I've
21:58
built this career that a lot of people look at
22:02
me of adding value. They want me on their team.
22:05
They want me to be part of building their companies.
22:07
While I can do a lot of things, it doesn't mean
22:10
I want to do that. I feel like I got to the point
22:13
in my career of just because I can do certain
22:15
things that people look as valuable, it doesn't
22:17
mean I want to do that. I took a hard look of,
22:21
okay, I've been doing this now for 15 years.
22:23
What do I want this next chapter to look like?
22:25
I always said, I'm like, I just want to burn
22:26
it all down. I just want to burn it all down.
22:29
The reality is you don't have to burn it all
22:30
down. You can just pivot. Is it a hinge? Exactly.
22:33
It's a hinge moment. I said, what I really want
22:37
to do is I want to have impact. I made a lot
22:40
of people, a lot of money. That's fantastic,
22:43
but that can't be my thing. I cannot have these
22:46
skills and just keep using it to pump money into
22:50
this economy, if you will. I really shifted to,
22:53
I want to create something that's impact for
22:55
good. I want to be a force for good, is what
22:58
I kept telling myself. So long story short, met
23:02
up with a friend of mine and we've been building
23:04
companies in parallel with each other. And I
23:07
told her exactly what I was looking to do. She
23:10
said, that's so funny. I am starting this thing
23:14
and I think. You might actually be a good fit
23:16
for this because we have very different skill
23:18
sets. So fast forward, we started a company called
23:21
Fabric. We are a network of social spaces where
23:24
people come together to reconnect to real life.
23:27
We're on a large mission to end the epidemic
23:29
of loneliness that we are currently in right
23:31
now. It is the largest health crisis facing our
23:35
world today. If you go back to, I think it was
23:37
like the seventies or eighties when like the
23:39
smoking and smoking was the crisis. That is how,
23:42
that's how big. this loneliness epidemic is of
23:46
our generation and of our time. So what we're
23:49
doing is we're creating social spaces for people
23:51
to come together to find connection, find social
23:54
connection, find a sense of community. build
23:56
community, we have over 165 communities who call
23:59
Fabric home. So that can range anything from
24:02
knitting clubs to book clubs to women in AI to
24:06
financial literacy. And what happens is they
24:09
host gatherings and bring people together around
24:11
these shared interests or topics. So when you
24:14
walk into Fabric, people actually want to know,
24:16
what's your name? What are you working on? You
24:19
essentially are... making friends instantly.
24:23
It's absolutely incredible what we're building.
24:25
If you think about an employer perspective, you
24:29
have your three pillars of health. You have your
24:31
physical, your mental, and your social. If you
24:35
think about physical, we all go to the gym, or
24:38
we do workout, or we go for a walk. The physical
24:42
health, that box is checked. If you look at mental
24:44
health, exactly. If you look at mental health,
24:46
there's already solves for that. Companies are
24:50
now covering therapy. They're suggesting solutions
24:53
and partnering with apps like Headspace for meditation
24:56
or the Calm app. But if you look at that last
24:59
pillar, which is social health or social connection,
25:03
which is the contributor of the $460 billion
25:06
impact of loneliness. And again, social health
25:11
ripple effects onto your physical and your mental
25:13
health. No one's solving for that. And that's
25:16
really where we believe we are the industry creator
25:21
of solving for so we perfect world what this
25:27
would look like is you look at your week you
25:29
have scheduled out what days are going to be
25:31
doing your workouts what days you're going to
25:33
be maybe checking in with yourself daily meditation
25:36
or a therapy session i have mine today at one
25:38
but then it's are you scheduling that social
25:41
connection right And let's clarify, that's in
25:44
person. That's not on your phone. That's not
25:46
on Instagram. This is like, put your phone down
25:49
and actually have a conversation in person. Yes,
25:51
it is. And that's the thing. People think that
25:54
the pandemic is what led to this loneliness epidemic.
25:58
And the reality is it's not. It was happening
26:00
prior to that. And if you look at since the 70s,
26:03
there has been a decline of clubs and communities
26:06
in our neighborhoods and in our world today.
26:08
That's obviously continued to go down. I remember
26:10
going to dinner parties with my my parents' friends.
26:14
I think I've maybe hosted one dinner party in
26:17
my entire adult life. Like, why? So it just goes
26:20
back to being intentional, again, being intentional
26:24
in your 20s, but being intentional around finding
26:26
community, building social connections, and again,
26:30
having that muscle worked, right? It's not, oh,
26:33
yeah, I'm with my family all the time. you can
26:35
be in a family and be lonely, right? It goes
26:37
back to like, are your own social needs being
26:39
met? And actually, I'm really excited. We're
26:41
doing a it's a social connection summit. It was
26:44
kind of like my little brainchild I kind of thought
26:47
of earlier this year. And we're finally It's
26:49
coming to life two weeks from now at Fabric in
26:52
New York. We have a location in Tribeca, a location
26:54
in Dembo. We're going to be hosting it in Dembo.
26:57
And the whole goal is to bring together a lot
26:58
of other folks, both researchers, as well as
27:01
we have a fantastic author who wrote a book called
27:03
The Connection Cure, also participating. And
27:06
it's all around social prescribing and kind of
27:08
putting more of a light on that social connection
27:11
element and being more intentional around like,
27:14
what is your own social prescription? on a weekly
27:18
basis. What should that look like? Very different
27:22
from what I've done before. Again, it goes back
27:27
to like, this is meaningful work. I always joke
27:29
around. I get to wake up every day and solve
27:31
loneliness. It's a little bit different than
27:33
selling containers or whatever. I was like, you're
27:38
doing what? Overcoming to work with me? So different.
27:41
You're right. You're right. You're right. The
27:45
other piece that too, I think of with teenagers,
27:47
like maybe that can be phase two of this is because
27:49
having teenagers, like, yes, they go to school,
27:52
they're involved in sports, they do stuff, you
27:54
know, randomly with friends, but they're so content
27:56
coming home and laying on their bed and scrolling
27:58
on TikTok for hours, days. Like, I mean, it's
28:01
just, and sometimes then when you throw them
28:03
in a social situation, people, they don't know,
28:05
they're like awkward. I'm like, what the hell's
28:07
wrong with you? Like they need to be. more socialized
28:11
and we're pretty social family. We have a lot
28:14
of stuff going on in friends and family. But
28:16
the other week I was like, what the heck? I need
28:19
to put you in more situations where you don't
28:21
know people, where you have to ask questions
28:23
and, I don't know, learn about people. So I'd
28:26
like to request a teen program in Harrisburg,
28:30
Pennsylvania, please. Yes. Fabric teen, fabric
28:33
silver for the later generations. This is all
28:36
part of our big, big plan. The silver, yes. That's
28:39
interesting. Because again, like, loneliness
28:40
is not, it's not one generation. Fabric members,
28:45
our members range from mid -20s to mid -60s.
28:49
The reality is that yes, that is the category
28:52
or the generations that we're attracting, but
28:56
there is absolutely an opportunity for pre -high
29:01
school, if you will, and then obviously later
29:04
stage. But again, think about that. They don't
29:09
know how to socialize or just be Remember when
29:13
you were younger and your parents made you order
29:16
your own food? Oh, yeah. I always do that. It's
29:20
so awkward. I have to talk to someone. Yeah,
29:22
that's called being a human, right? Exactly.
29:24
And if you fast forward to, again, your 20s,
29:27
god, if you don't know how to talk to someone
29:30
verbally, IRL, in person, and you're so used
29:35
to just, again, a text or email or written. Right.
29:42
That's only going to last so long. No, that's
29:44
not good. So yeah, there needs to be an opportunity.
29:47
And I would say that even with the younger generations,
29:50
it's kind of cool some of the things that they're
29:54
gravitating to. Like their new interest in point
29:56
and shoot cameras. Oh, right. Well, everything
29:58
comes back around, right? Exactly. We were talking
30:00
about that earlier. The pendulum swings, and
30:02
now we're going to go back to hopefully a little
30:03
bit more anti -technology and go back to the
30:07
old school days. Maybe I should have kept some
30:09
of those cameras and DVD players. A CD. A CD,
30:14
yes. Those did suck. Hopefully, they don't go
30:16
back. Yeah. Yeah. But no, the goal is, again,
30:20
let's start here, but then also know how can
30:23
we even start sooner than that to create spaces
30:26
for social connection. So that's, again, part
30:28
of their habit, part of their routine, not this
30:31
thing that they either A, don't know about, or
30:34
B, they don't know how to solve it or where to
30:39
go. or what that even looks like. That's awesome.
30:43
I can't wait to hear updates on that. That is
30:44
such a cool thing that you're involved in and
30:47
making an impact in solving that loneliness issue.
30:50
Who would have thought, right? That's just probably
30:52
wasn't on your two -year plan, but here you are.
30:54
That's pretty cool. Absolutely. Absolutely. I
30:58
could talk to you all day, of course, but we're
30:59
going to wrap here. Any parting advice or thoughts
31:03
for our listeners that we haven't hit on yet?
31:05
I would say be intentional again around who you
31:10
surround yourself by. The fact that you and I
31:13
still have a relationship, I think I am so lucky
31:16
to have. But again, that didn't happen by chance.
31:20
That happened because I looked at you as someone
31:23
who I wanted to become. And I knew that I had
31:26
to continue to, again, put myself in front of
31:30
you to gain that knowledge and get my mentorship.
31:33
while I was in different states, not in Pennsylvania,
31:36
but when I was in town checking in with you.
31:39
That's literally how I got connected with my
31:41
current co -founder, Jacqueline. Anytime I was
31:43
in New York, her and I grabbed coffee. We didn't
31:46
know that we were going to start a company one
31:47
day. But again, that intentionality of having
31:52
this epiphany of that social connection, right?
31:55
The social connection of it all. But no, like
31:58
I said, I feel really lucky to know you and to
32:01
have this. continued mentorship and just connection
32:04
with you. And it just gets getting more fun as
32:06
we continue to, again, have different chapters
32:08
of our careers and the evolution of what we're
32:11
all becoming. Well, I'm so proud of you. You
32:13
have done amazing things and you'll continue
32:15
to do amazing things. And yeah, I knew you had
32:17
that spark in that fire when you were 21 and
32:20
you have proven that was true. So congrats to
32:22
you. And we'll have to check in. Well, I might
32:24
have to talk more about the loneliness as you
32:26
guys continue down this path. Yeah, creating
32:28
community. I would love to because if you think
32:30
about it, If you go back to the caveman days,
32:34
women were in community all the time because
32:37
the men were going and hunting and gathering.
32:40
So women, that's why I feel like if you ask a
32:43
woman, like, how many friends do you have? Like,
32:44
we have a ton, right? There's a guy, how many
32:47
friends they have. It's usually like a few. A
32:49
few. That's true. A few. But it's, we, again,
32:52
like, we're very good at creating community and
32:56
connection together. And that's, you know, that's
32:58
not by chance. That's where we essentially have
33:00
come from. No, that's very true. And that's part
33:03
of the whole Loud and Lifted initiative. It's
33:05
creating community that's supportive of each
33:07
other because sometimes you might have that personally
33:09
but not professionally. So how do you continue
33:11
to build around you people who are going to be
33:14
your cheerleader and going to support you and
33:15
help you with that exposure. So we're going to
33:18
dominate the world together. Yay! Gwen, thank
33:21
you so much for being here. Thank you so much
33:23
for having me. I love this was a great start
33:25
to the day. Thank you. Thank you. Gwen's story
33:28
is a reminder that your 20s don't have to be
33:30
perfect. They just have to be intentional. From
33:33
internships and cross -country moves to boardrooms
33:35
and business pivots, she's proof that small decisions
33:38
made with courage compound into major impact.
33:42
So take the risk, ask the question, make the
33:45
move, and do it with a little bit of fire and
33:48
a lot of intention. Thanks for tuning in to Loud
33:52
and Lifted. If you like this episode, please
33:54
share it with a friend, leave a comment or review,
33:57
and of course, continue to follow us on social
33:59
media. Until next time, stay loud and stay lifted.