Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / Golden Nuggets of 2024: Highlights From Some Of The Best Episodes Of The Year

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Golden Nuggets of 2024: Highlights From Some Of The Best Episodes Of The Year · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

0:01
Kristina Kuzmic: My value cannot be attached to any specific outcome, especially when that outcome is out of my control.
0:11
Kristina Kuzmic: And that's really hard, right?
0:12
Kristina Kuzmic: Because parents would feel like we, we should, if we see a problem, we should know how to fix it.
0:17
Kristina Kuzmic: We should know how to make it better.
0:18
Kristina Kuzmic: And we start blaming ourselves.
0:20
Kristina Kuzmic: And I had to just repeat to myself, I am doing the best.
0:24
Kristina Kuzmic: I know how I am providing him with all the support.
0:26
Kristina Kuzmic: I know how I will make mistakes.
0:29
Kristina Kuzmic: And that's human.
0:30
Kristina Kuzmic: And I will not have all the answers and that's human.
0:32
Kristina Kuzmic: That doesn't make me inadequate.
0:33
Kristina Kuzmic: It makes me human.
0:34
Kristina Kuzmic: And also my value and worth cannot be attached to who he is, how he's doing or how he ends up.
0:50
Brenda: Welcome to Hope Stream, a podcast where you'll hear interviews, conversations, and encouraging words for parents of teens and young adults who struggle with substance misuse and mental health.
1:02
Brenda: I'm Brenda Zane, your host and a fellow parent whose child struggled.
1:06
Brenda: I'm so glad you're here.
1:08
Brenda: Take a deep breath.
1:09
Brenda: And no, you're not doing this alone anymore.
1:13
Brenda: Hi friend.
1:14
Brenda: It is the annual Golden Nuggets episode where I agonize over 51 episodes and which ones I should highlight for you at the end of the year.
1:24
Brenda: It can be rough.
1:27
Brenda: I'm always amazed when I rewind and I listen to episodes from months ago and sometimes I have completely forgotten.
1:35
Brenda: one of these gems that my guest dropped during the conversation.
1:39
Brenda: It's super fun to re listen with kind of a different lens and just see what pops out at me.
1:46
Brenda: If you are listening in real time, we are closing out 2024.
1:51
Brenda: And I know for many of you, it has been a wild ride this year, with your child potentially in and out of different treatments.
2:01
Brenda: or continuing to refuse help.
2:05
Brenda: And I also get the benefit of seeing so many of your kids doing so well now.
2:10
Brenda: We even have had two babies born to kids whose moms are members in the stream community and those moms are watching their boys truly grow and become incredible healthy dads.
2:24
Brenda: Which is probably the best blessing I could ever see happen.
2:30
Brenda: So no matter where you are on your rollercoaster ride, please remember to stay buckled up and the best way to do that is to stay plugged in here to the podcast and also for moms to join us in the stream.
2:47
Brenda: That's where we can support you even more with coaching and guidance.
2:52
Brenda: We are all in it together.
2:54
Brenda: There is no shame, there's no stigma, there's no minimizing what's going on, and you will have the benefit of learning from the wisdom of an amazing, amazing crowd of women.
3:06
Brenda: And I wanted to mention that for right now, we have paused on our community for dads, the words.
3:12
Brenda: We weren't able to serve dads in the same high touch, high quality way that we do with the moms, and so we're rethinking how we serve dads outside of the podcast and our workshops in a better way.
3:26
Brenda: And dads, I do want to say that I love hearing from you, which I get to occasionally.
3:33
Brenda: You guys are absolutely amazing, and I know that you are listening, and I just want to say that I see you, and I give you a ton of credit.
3:42
Brenda: For the work that you are doing for your family.
3:44
Brenda: It's not easy, and you are showing up.
3:48
Brenda: Okay.
3:48
Brenda: Are you ready?
3:50
Brenda: I can't wait.
3:51
Brenda: Let's do this.
3:52
Brenda: The Hope Stream Golden Nuggets of 2024 coming up.
4:11
Brenda: Okay.
4:12
Brenda: We are gonna dive in and I wanna let you know that there is a PDF in the show notes for this episode with all of these guests and the resources linked for you so that you don't need to try and jot them down as you're listening.
4:24
Brenda: Just go to Hopestreamcommunity.
4:26
Brenda: org, click on podcast, and then click on or search for this 2024 Golden Nuggets episode, and you will find the PDF.
4:37
Brenda: First up, you are going to hear from a mom who decided she was not going to accept the suitcases of guilt and shame people kept trying to hand her when her son struggled with mental health issues.
4:49
Brenda: And he used substances to numb his pain.
4:53
Brenda: Christina Kuzmic though, was also going through her family's ordeal in the fishbowl of being a highly visible public figure.
5:01
Brenda: So lots of eyes were on her as she navigated her son's problems.
5:06
Brenda: Take a very careful listen to hear how Christina's decision to attend and dance at her own 40th birthday party while her son was in the psychiatric unit turned out to be a giant gift to them both.
5:22
Brenda: This is Christina Kuzmic from episode 244.
5:26
Kristina Kuzmic: He's handcuffed.
5:27
Kristina Kuzmic: They're putting him in the back of the car.
5:29
Kristina Kuzmic: They're being a little aggressive with them.
5:30
Kristina Kuzmic: And there are two women.
5:32
Kristina Kuzmic: From my street, my new street, who I have not even met yet, and they're standing right across the street, and they're staring at the scene.
5:38
Kristina Kuzmic: There's two police cars, the sirens are on, you know, the whole thing.
5:41
Kristina Kuzmic: I look over and I notice them, and immediately, as any human would, the thoughts come to my head of like, oh my gosh, They don't know what's going on, you know, they don't even know the background story.
5:54
Kristina Kuzmic: And what are they gonna think of my family?
5:55
Kristina Kuzmic: Are they gonna tell other neighbors this is happening?
5:57
Kristina Kuzmic: And they're all gonna hate us, and judges, blah, blah, blah.
5:59
Kristina Kuzmic: And I just remember in that moment thinking, no Because the way I, so I've been in the public eye for a while, and the way I've always dealt with judgments, other people's, you know, hate or whatever they throw at you on social media, I thought of it as them handing me suitcases.
6:16
Kristina Kuzmic: That are full of their own stuff and their own and their own, you know, and I'm not going to pick that up.
6:21
Kristina Kuzmic: I carried it for, I picked up every suitcase handed to me for most of my life.
6:25
Kristina Kuzmic: I'm not picking up.
6:26
Kristina Kuzmic: So that's where that no thank you came from.
6:28
Kristina Kuzmic: I just thought, no, thank you.
6:30
Kristina Kuzmic: I'm not picking up.
6:32
Kristina Kuzmic: I am not picking up that judgment.
6:34
Kristina Kuzmic: I'm not going to carry whatever they may say or may think.
6:38
Kristina Kuzmic: I'm not, because if I pick it up, then that is going to distract me.
6:43
Kristina Kuzmic: From focusing on where I actually need to focus on, which is my son.
6:48
Kristina Kuzmic: I got into bed and then the self criticism started.
6:52
Kristina Kuzmic: How much of this is your fault, Christina?
6:55
Kristina Kuzmic: What did you do or didn't do that your son is being taken by the police on a psychiatric hold?
7:01
Kristina Kuzmic: What kind of a mother are you?
7:02
Kristina Kuzmic: You know, all that stuff.
7:04
Kristina Kuzmic: Why didn't you know how to get him help sooner and the right help?
7:07
Kristina Kuzmic: And I remember laying in bed and whispering out loud to myself too.
7:12
Kristina Kuzmic: Right?
7:13
Kristina Kuzmic: I am not doing this.
7:14
Kristina Kuzmic: I'm not picking up this self criticism.
7:16
Kristina Kuzmic: And it really did become a mantra for me.
7:18
Kristina Kuzmic: And I still use it, you know, because I'm human.
7:20
Kristina Kuzmic: And I still think, oh, what will so and so think?
7:23
Kristina Kuzmic: And I immediately, thankfully now I've done it so many times that my brain immediately goes there.
7:28
Kristina Kuzmic: And I just, I literally visualize them handing me something that's garbage, handing me something that is destructive in my life, that is destructive in my family's life, that is not going to move me forward.
7:39
Kristina Kuzmic: That is not for me.
7:41
Kristina Kuzmic: And I just, I say, no, thank you.
7:44
Kristina Kuzmic: I love birthdays and I make a really big deal about everybody's birthdays, but I never had like a big birthday party.
7:50
Kristina Kuzmic: And so my 40th birthday was coming up and my husband was like, we should throw you a big party.
7:54
Kristina Kuzmic: So this party was planned for Friday, which was my actual birthday on Tuesday was the night I had to call the police on my son.
8:01
Kristina Kuzmic: And he was taken in on Wednesday.
8:03
Kristina Kuzmic: He was in the ER waiting for a bed to open up in a psychiatric hospital.
8:07
Kristina Kuzmic: And I kept coming to visit him in the ER and he kept yelling at me to get the F out.
8:11
Kristina Kuzmic: And then that night he was finally transferred to a hospital.
8:15
Kristina Kuzmic: And Thursday was his first day at the hospital.
8:18
Kristina Kuzmic: And so I said to my husband.
8:20
Kristina Kuzmic: And obviously we got to cancel everything.
8:22
Kristina Kuzmic: And he tried to encourage me to still go through with it.
8:25
Kristina Kuzmic: He was like, Christina, there's no visiting hours Friday night at the hospital, so you can't see him.
8:30
Kristina Kuzmic: And I was like, I can't have a party, right?
8:32
Kristina Kuzmic: This is insane, right?
8:34
Kristina Kuzmic: So I called my mother in law and she very gently said, Christina, if you don't go through with this party, what will you do instead during that time?
8:41
Kristina Kuzmic: And we both knew that I'd be crying and, you know, worrying and all that.
8:45
Kristina Kuzmic: And she said, maybe this is the exact time that you do need to be surrounded by people who love you.
8:50
Kristina Kuzmic: Wow.
8:50
Kristina Kuzmic: So reluctantly.
8:52
Kristina Kuzmic: I go through with this party and I show up all dressed up and I'm trying to fake the smiles and inside I'm just dying because I knew that sitting right next to me it was supposed to be Luca and I am like just having a hard time even holding it together and then all of a sudden a friend of mine pulls me onto the dance floor.
9:12
Kristina Kuzmic: And I let loose, I dance and I dance and I dance until there are blisters on my feet and there's sweat running down my back.
9:20
Kristina Kuzmic: I'm dancing.
9:22
Kristina Kuzmic: And I wrote in the book how it felt really, really, really good.
9:26
Kristina Kuzmic: And right after it felt really, really, really good, it felt really bad.
9:30
Brenda: Yeah.
9:31
Kristina Kuzmic: Because what kind of a mother has a party for herself and dances while her son is in a psychiatric hospital wanting to die?
9:40
Mary Crocker Cook: Right.
9:44
Kristina Kuzmic: Months later, I'm talking to a friend of mine and I tell him, you know, I can't shake the guilt.
9:50
Kristina Kuzmic: I cannot shake this guilt.
9:52
Kristina Kuzmic: I cannot believe I went through with that stupid party.
9:55
Kristina Kuzmic: I just feel like that was the most selfish, stupidest, awful decision as a mother.
10:00
Kristina Kuzmic: And he says to me, Christina, you did Luca a favor.
10:03
Kristina Kuzmic: I'm like, what?
10:04
Kristina Kuzmic: What are you?
10:05
Kristina Kuzmic: That doesn't make any sense.
10:06
Kristina Kuzmic: And then he proceeded to tell me how when he was in high school, he went through a depression.
10:11
Kristina Kuzmic: And he said, I put my mom through a lot during that time.
10:14
Kristina Kuzmic: And if I knew that on top of everything I put her through, that she canceled something she was really looking forward to, and Luca knew you were really looking forward to that, I would still feel guilty to this day decades later.
10:27
Kristina Kuzmic: You gave Luca one less thing to feel that he destroyed.
10:31
Brenda: Wow.
10:32
Kristina Kuzmic: Yeah, I mean, mind blown, right?
10:34
Kristina Kuzmic: Because I never thought of it that way.
10:36
Kristina Kuzmic: Because I think we convince ourselves.
10:39
Kristina Kuzmic: That if our loved ones are struggling, that we have to struggle as well.
10:43
Kristina Kuzmic: That's the only way that we show true empathy and love is if we're also struggling.
10:47
Kristina Kuzmic: And so my perspective was once Luca is happy, I can be happy.
10:51
Kristina Kuzmic: Once Luca is fully enjoying his life, then I am allowed to fully enjoy mine.
10:55
Kristina Kuzmic: And what Zach taught me that day is that that is a hell of a lot of pressure to put on someone because what if Luca is never healthy?
11:04
Kristina Kuzmic: And, and also good emotions.
11:07
Kristina Kuzmic: Positive emotions should not be some sort of a reward that I have to earn, especially when earning it is contingent on circumstances completely out of my control.
11:15
Kristina Kuzmic: Right.
11:16
Kristina Kuzmic: Right.
11:17
Kristina Kuzmic: And so then as I was writing the book, I actually called him into my office and I was like, Hey, did you, we never talked about it.
11:24
Kristina Kuzmic: Like, did you know that I had my birthday party?
11:27
Kristina Kuzmic: And he was like, Oh yeah, I saw some pictures and I saw some videos.
11:30
Kristina Kuzmic: And I'm like, Oh my gosh.
11:31
Kristina Kuzmic: He's like, yeah, I saw videos of you dancing.
11:33
Kristina Kuzmic: I'm just like dying inside.
11:35
Kristina Kuzmic: And I said, look at me honestly.
11:38
Kristina Kuzmic: What do you think about the fact that I went through with that party right after you were hospitalized?
11:42
Kristina Kuzmic: And he said, mom, he kind of got emotional.
11:43
Kristina Kuzmic: He goes, mom, you deserved it.
11:45
Kristina Kuzmic: I'm so glad.
11:47
Kristina Kuzmic: Treat yourself with the same kind.
11:49
Kristina Kuzmic: This is how I always think of it.
11:50
Kristina Kuzmic: Treat yourself with the same kindness that you would want your child to treat themselves with if they were going through Their child, right?
11:57
Kristina Kuzmic: Model that.
11:58
Kristina Kuzmic: We are, you're never selfish or self centered or should feel guilty for taking care of yourself because you are taking care of the most important person in your child's life and you are modeling to them how to be forgiving of themselves and how to give themselves grace and how to treat themselves with so much patience and kindness when life is at its For any parent going through it, I mean, first of all, get all the support you can because you can't do this alone.
12:24
Kristina Kuzmic: You cannot do this alone and you should not do alone.
12:27
Kristina Kuzmic: But also one thing I had to accept, which is so hard.
12:33
Kristina Kuzmic: I hear this from parents who unfortunately did lose their children is I realized that my value cannot be attached to any specific outcome.
12:43
Kristina Kuzmic: Especially when that outcome is out of my control.
12:47
Kristina Kuzmic: And that's really hard, right?
12:48
Kristina Kuzmic: Because parents would feel like we, we should, if we see a problem, we should know how to fix it, we should know how to make it better and we start blaming ourselves.
12:56
Kristina Kuzmic: And I had to just repeat to myself, I am doing the best.
13:00
Kristina Kuzmic: I know how I am providing him with all the support.
13:02
Kristina Kuzmic: I know how, but I will make mistakes and that's human and I will not have all the answers.
13:07
Kristina Kuzmic: And that's human.
13:08
Kristina Kuzmic: That doesn't make me inadequate.
13:09
Kristina Kuzmic: It makes me human.
13:10
Kristina Kuzmic: And also my value and worth cannot be attached.
13:14
Kristina Kuzmic: To who he is, how he's doing, or how he ends up.
13:50
Brenda: Something that I'm very passionate about is making parents aware of the fact that despite what you may have heard in the past, you are not helpless when it comes to your child who is misusing drugs and alcohol as a way of dealing with the struggles they face.
14:05
Brenda: You as their parent or step parent or caregiver have the most influence in helping them get better.
14:12
Brenda: You don't have to distance from them, use tough love, and let them hit rock bottom.
14:17
Brenda: I have yet to meet a mom or dad who feels good about that approach.
14:22
Brenda: So at HopeStream, we teach and I try to preach the community reinforcement and family training approach, which is evidence based, meaning there is research to back up its results, and it gives you practical ways to motivate your child or anyone you love who is struggling with substance misuse.
14:41
Brenda: To accept help.
14:43
Brenda: I cannot stress this enough.
14:44
Brenda: So I included a small bit of episode 2 39 here, and I encourage you to download and listen to the full episode after this.
14:54
Brenda: I feel like it is so important to share information about using all the tools that I talk about here on the podcast to help stack the odds in your favor that your child will accept help if you offer it in the right way enough times with the right intention.
15:11
Brenda: and planning.
15:12
Brenda: So for a quick overview of CRAFT, if you're new to the podcast, this is a behavioral approach designed specifically for family members to use when there is someone in their life who misuses substances and is resistant to accepting help.
15:28
Brenda: Instead of coming from a place of helplessness and tough love, it focuses on positive reinforcement, self care for you, boundaries, and natural consequences, which go hand in hand.
15:41
Brenda: and effective communication.
15:44
Brenda: All of that with the intent to improve your relationship and to invite your person to get help.
15:51
Brenda: This is a very structured step by step approach to inviting your child to accept help.
15:57
Brenda: It is not theoretical, it is not vague, which is why it is so important and also effective.
16:04
Brenda: It is probably worth sharing at this point that there are numerous studies that show CRAF's high success rate, which is around 64 to 75 percent in getting individuals into treatment.
16:15
Brenda: This is an evidence based approach that has been proven effective with adults and with adolescents, which is encouraging because teens and young adults have some unique challenges around substance use disorder.
16:28
Brenda: Things like treatment resistance, their developmental factors, the fact that their brain is not fully developed, and the peer influence factor.
16:37
Brenda: Let me quickly put this concept in place to help you understand where it fits into the world of craft.
16:43
Brenda: All of the work you do when you learn these skills are really building to a situation where your child is more likely to accept your offer of help.
16:53
Brenda: One aspect of that being an increase in your confidence level and the other is a reduction over time in their substance use This is typical when parents start really implementing these skills, even if your child is still using, if you are being consistent in your behavior and mindset, their use will often, not always, but often reduce over time.
17:19
Brenda: Then you're going to work on noticing those windows of opportunity, which are times when your child is more likely to be willing to accept your invitation.
17:29
Brenda: The creators of CRAFT and the experts in this approach have outlined four general windows of opportunity.
17:35
Brenda: Two are especially pertinent with young people, which are when your child is remorseful about something that has happened or something maybe that they didn't get to have happen as a result of their substance use.
17:49
Brenda: Like they got caught with drugs or drug paraphernalia at school and they're facing being expelled or the other common window of opportunity Could be when they're upset about a substance related remark or treatment from somebody that they respect For example, they learn that someone has talked to their boss about smelling alcohol or marijuana on them And they don't want to lose that job or they lose a boyfriend or a girlfriend who doesn't support their substance use.
18:19
Brenda: So paying attention to those windows of opportunity is a very important part of the process.
18:26
Brenda: The next element of the invitation is finding a motivational hook, a reason why your child would engage with help.
18:34
Brenda: The important part about motivational hooks is that they have to be appealing to your child, not to you.
18:41
Brenda: The thing you think is the most important reason for them to get help may be very different from theirs.
18:48
Brenda: A couple of examples of motivational hooks are one, the ability for your child to choose between two programs or therapists that you have already vetted and feel good about.
18:58
Brenda: That way they don't feel trapped, and it also relieves some of the burden from you to make a decision.
19:04
Brenda: Another common motivational hook is to let them know that the help you're offering is going to allow them to focus on things other than their substance use and that they'll be focusing on their anxiety or depression or dealing with trauma they've experienced.
19:20
Brenda: Which means that you need to make sure you're asking the right questions about dual diagnosis programs when you're doing your research Where they will in fact address the mental health issues as well as the substance use This hook can be appealing to someone because they don't necessarily have to admit they have a substance use problem that needs to be addressed right away.
19:43
Brenda: It is a good idea to plan for your own response to a refusal of help.
19:50
Brenda: It can be devastating to hear no and planning in advance how you'll take care of yourself and your heart is critical.
19:58
Brenda: It's also good to know that typically your first invitation isn't likely to be accepted.
20:05
Brenda: So consider that practice and know that you'll probably have another chance.
20:10
Brenda: If your child refuses treatment, you'll go back to observing for windows of opportunity.
20:16
Brenda: Figure out if you had the right motivational hook.
20:19
Brenda: Maybe you didn't.
20:20
Brenda: You can think about whether or not you use positive communication during the conversation.
20:25
Brenda: And you can keep checking back in on your resources for availability and adjustments that need to happen there.
20:32
Brenda: You're going to be strategic at this point about scanning and observing what is going on to know when the next right opportunity might be.
20:41
Brenda: You as the parent has the most intimate knowledge of what is rewarding and motivating for your child.
20:49
Brenda: Even if those things seem to have faded in the recent past.
20:53
Brenda: You are still massively influential in helping use that knowledge that often only a parent has to start to create Positive change and if you use the craft an invitation to change skills and procedures as they are intended You can have a conversation with your child that is proven by research to be effective about 74 percent of the time over the course of 12 ish weeks in having them accept help in one form or another Again, can look like a lot of different things and it is most likely going to take more than one of these conversations.
21:46
Brenda: If you have been on this roller coaster ride with your child for longer than a minute, you've probably had someone tell you, or you've read in a book that you are quote unquote codependent.
21:58
Brenda: And it was probably communicated in a way that made you feel inadequate or guilty.
22:03
Brenda: That's why I invited Dr.
22:05
Brenda: Mary Crocker Cook on the podcast because she explains what that term actually means and you don't have to feel guilty about it.
22:14
Brenda: She also shares important information about the physical impact of ongoing stress on your body.
22:20
Brenda: She's just brilliant at explaining so many mysteries of this difficult experience.
22:27
Brenda: You may want to grab a copy of her book called Afraid to Let Go.
22:31
Brenda: There's a link in the show notes for you.
22:33
Brenda: And you'll want to listen to the entirety of episode 223 on my list, it's a must listen of 2024.
22:43
Mary Crocker Cook: At its heart, codependency is a set of behaviors developed to manage the anxiety that comes when our primary attachments are formed with people who are inconsistent or unavailable in their response to us.
22:56
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
22:56
Mary Crocker Cook: So that's part one.
22:57
Mary Crocker Cook: We develop, okay, we have a lot of anxiety about our early ability to connect with other people.
23:04
Mary Crocker Cook: Because they were either not available or sometimes available.
23:09
Mary Crocker Cook: Part two.
23:10
Mary Crocker Cook: Our anxiety based responses to life include over reactivity, image management, unrealistic beliefs about our limits, and attempts to control the reality of other people.
23:22
Mary Crocker Cook: And so in the process of managing our anxiety about our connections to other people, we lose our boundaries, okay, our self esteem tanks.
23:32
Mary Crocker Cook: And then part three, this is the final part.
23:34
Mary Crocker Cook: This is important.
23:36
Mary Crocker Cook: That codependency is also a chronic stress disease.
23:39
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
23:40
Mary Crocker Cook: Because of the chronic anxiety of trying to manage our connections with other people, we are, we, it can devastate our immune system and leave to systemic and even life threatening illness.
23:54
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
23:54
Mary Crocker Cook: So we've got the developmental origin, we got the behaviors we do, and then we got out the toll it takes on our body.
24:01
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
24:02
Mary Crocker Cook: Because Some of us, again, we have been doing some of these behaviors way before we ever had a kid.
24:09
Mary Crocker Cook: I've had clients that have had, you know, rather checkered past, okay?
24:13
Mary Crocker Cook: And their biggest fear is their kid's gonna wind up in San Quentin like them, okay?
24:17
Mary Crocker Cook: So early on, they're constantly anxious and over, you know, like, oh no, oh no, right?
24:24
Mary Crocker Cook: Or you have other parents, Who are, you know, sometimes they're available and they're, they're able to really focus and be present, but they also have their own challenges, either depression, anxiety, alcohol themselves, um, uh, dysfunctional marriage they're trying to manage.
24:44
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
24:45
Mary Crocker Cook: They have their own off the hook parents and their sandwich parents.
24:48
Mary Crocker Cook: And so they've got, you know, these parents over here who are crazy and they're trying to manage that.
24:51
Mary Crocker Cook: Right.
24:51
Mary Crocker Cook: So, and then you have the parents that, that in some ways.
24:56
Mary Crocker Cook: Just, um, are not present for themselves or anybody else.
25:00
Mary Crocker Cook: So, they might be physically present, but they're not able to see and hear the child.
25:06
Mary Crocker Cook: They just cannot.
25:07
Mary Crocker Cook: It's almost like they only see and hear who they think the child is, if that makes sense.
25:13
Mary Crocker Cook: Because I have interrupted early attachment myself, I don't truly trust that my connections are solid.
25:22
Mary Crocker Cook: And so, one response to not trusting that my connections are solid is to Uh, risk, perceived threat to the attachment.
25:34
Mary Crocker Cook: So when you're, when you, my child, aren't responding, you're unavailable, uh, you're not listening to me, I could perceive that as something's wrong with our connection, our relationship.
25:47
Mary Crocker Cook: And so I may in fact be intrusive.
25:50
Mary Crocker Cook: I might actually monitor highly, too much.
25:54
Mary Crocker Cook: I'm monitoring you because really I'm anxious.
25:58
Mary Crocker Cook: I want to make sure we're okay.
25:59
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
25:59
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
26:00
Mary Crocker Cook: Are we okay?
26:01
Mary Crocker Cook: How are we doing?
26:02
Mary Crocker Cook: Right?
26:03
Mary Crocker Cook: And so I, I do, I may be intrusive and I may be up in your business.
26:07
Mary Crocker Cook: And I do it, by the way, if you do it with your child, you do it with everyone.
26:11
Mary Crocker Cook: Can I just say that?
26:12
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
26:13
Mary Crocker Cook: If you're, you're not just a helicopter parent, um, pretty much if you, if you're coming from anxiety, you also are intrusive with people you love, period.
26:22
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
26:22
Mary Crocker Cook: Got it.
26:23
Mary Crocker Cook: It's, it's not only my kid am I, you know, rummaging through their stuff.
26:26
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
26:27
Mary Crocker Cook: Probably not.
26:29
Mary Crocker Cook: In fact, the more you love somebody, when we have, when we struggle with this, the more likely we are to break in their email.
26:35
Mary Crocker Cook: You know what I'm saying?
26:36
Mary Crocker Cook: It's a sign of love.
26:38
Brenda: Yes.
26:38
Brenda: Yes.
26:39
Brenda: It's, it makes a lot of sense the way you describe it.
26:43
Brenda: And, and then, you know, the sort of the crux of all of this is then when you talked about, you know, if that person, you feel like the attachment isn't solid with them, when you have a kiddo who's.
26:56
Brenda: you know, struggling with, with drugs and alcohol and a high risk lifestyle and mental health, they are not present and available a lot of the time, most of the time.
27:06
Brenda: That's right.
27:06
Brenda: Right.
27:07
Brenda: So then that just adds an extra layer of anxiety.
27:11
Mary Crocker Cook: And it is, it's very frightening to love somebody who's out of control.
27:16
Mary Crocker Cook: When you have attachment challenges, your fight or flight system and perception of threat is heightened.
27:24
Mary Crocker Cook: And so you, you don't get to relax and rest very much.
27:29
Mary Crocker Cook: It's like your foot's on a gas pedal, right?
27:32
Mary Crocker Cook: And you never let it up.
27:34
Mary Crocker Cook: And so what happens is your body parts start to break down just like your car would.
27:39
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay?
27:40
Mary Crocker Cook: And so what I see with the parents, It's gastrointestinal immune system issues, headaches, they're on antidepressants, anxiety meds because it's so hard on their body.
27:54
Mary Crocker Cook: And one of my reasons and passions around this, particularly for parents and really significant others of people who are addicted is paying attention to your body.
28:07
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
28:07
Mary Crocker Cook: Because what happens when we are caught up in this, is for a lot of us who are like floating heads.
28:16
Mary Crocker Cook: And if I grew up not trusting my attachments and I'm on the more avoidant side, I hide in my head.
28:25
Mary Crocker Cook: My thinking is my happy place.
28:27
Mary Crocker Cook: So what I do when, as soon as I have a feeling of any kind is I down regulate it, go up in my head and I start research, research, research, research, research.
28:38
Mary Crocker Cook: I love reading, reading, reading, researching.
28:40
Mary Crocker Cook: That's my happy, happy safe place.
28:43
Mary Crocker Cook: That your body is still anxious.
28:47
Mary Crocker Cook: And here's the good news.
28:49
Mary Crocker Cook: The definition is founded on early attachment, but we can change this.
28:53
Mary Crocker Cook: But it's not like, you know, well, because I have my own early childhood, uh, interruptions, uh, interrupts my own parenting and I guess we're all screwed.
29:03
Mary Crocker Cook: It's like, no, we can, we can become more available to see and hear the people in our lives.
29:12
Mary Crocker Cook: Brian, we, we can, we can change this.
29:15
Mary Crocker Cook: Um, the other thing I also want to debunk is top love.
29:19
Mary Crocker Cook: Not a fan.
29:21
Mary Crocker Cook: In general, you know, staying connected to your kid somehow is for their own sanity.
29:28
Mary Crocker Cook: However, they don't need to live in your house.
29:30
Mary Crocker Cook: Right.
29:31
Mary Crocker Cook: So kind of where I kind of go with it is, look, I think your kid's going to have to go because they're stealing your crap and they're making them, you know, okay, they're bullying their kid, your siblings, whatever.
29:43
Mary Crocker Cook: But that doesn't mean you don't talk to them ever.
29:45
Mary Crocker Cook: Right.
29:45
Mary Crocker Cook: In fact, I would still talk to them.
29:48
Mary Crocker Cook: I would take them out for a sandwich once a week.
29:50
Mary Crocker Cook: Absolutely.
29:51
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
29:51
Mary Crocker Cook: It doesn't mean I never speak to them again.
29:53
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
29:54
Mary Crocker Cook: It does mean I have limits around how much disruption I'll tolerate.
29:58
Mary Crocker Cook: Yes, mostly because my body can't handle it man.
30:01
Mary Crocker Cook: I can't handle this two o'clock in the morning.
30:03
Mary Crocker Cook: I can't handle police activity I'm not having to screaming.
30:07
Mary Crocker Cook: I'm not having the stealing not having it.
30:09
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay, but I love you and I'm not going anywhere I'm still gonna talk to you I'm not gonna give you money But I'm gonna buy you a sandwich Because I'm a mom and I want to look at you because parents feel better when they eyeball them I mean, we can text them, but it's different when you eyeball them.
30:30
Mary Crocker Cook: Just look at them.
30:32
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
30:33
Mary Crocker Cook: Yeah.
30:33
Mary Crocker Cook: So I, I, I just wanted to throw that out there because I, I think I'm a connection person in terms of honoring that.
30:41
Mary Crocker Cook: Right.
30:42
Mary Crocker Cook: I think people, when we look at research about people staying sober longterm, it's because they have connections to others.
30:49
Mary Crocker Cook: Yes.
30:49
Mary Crocker Cook: Right.
30:50
Mary Crocker Cook: Yes.
30:51
Mary Crocker Cook: And the other fear people have, which is true, is that the bottom for addiction is death.
30:57
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay?
30:58
Mary Crocker Cook: So I get, don't let them hit bottom.
31:00
Mary Crocker Cook: Because we die.
31:02
Mary Crocker Cook: Alright?
31:02
Mary Crocker Cook: We die.
31:03
Mary Crocker Cook: I get it.
31:05
Mary Crocker Cook: That's why we raise the bottom.
31:07
Mary Crocker Cook: I've noticed you have people who do craft.
31:10
Mary Crocker Cook: Love craft.
31:11
Mary Crocker Cook: Good job.
31:12
Mary Crocker Cook: Brenda.
31:12
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay.
31:12
Mary Crocker Cook: Yes.
31:13
Mary Crocker Cook: Yes.
31:15
Mary Crocker Cook: Yes, the whole family needs to get help and we don't have to wait until they are, you know, OD'ing in the emergency room.
31:24
Mary Crocker Cook: Okay, now if they do, they do.
31:26
Mary Crocker Cook: But it isn't required.
31:28
Mary Crocker Cook: It's a myth that people have to want to get care.
31:31
Mary Crocker Cook: No one wants to get clean.
31:34
Mary Crocker Cook: They get clean because not getting clean is worse.
31:37
Mary Crocker Cook: And at the same time, if you do not let them have natural consequences, they can't grow.
31:44
Mary Crocker Cook: So, I have to, in the getting sober process, which.
31:49
Mary Crocker Cook: Somehow, something needs to happen where I'm doing it also for me, to stay in sobriety.
31:56
Brenda: Right.
32:20
Brenda: I included the next segment, which I recorded for Mother's Day, because so many people reached out to me after it aired that I knew it had struck a chord.
32:30
Brenda: And just because it's December doesn't mean it's not relevant.
32:33
Brenda: You can actually just swap in any given day for Mother's Day, because many of us feel like this on a regular basis.
32:41
Brenda: I hope you enjoy some heartfelt words from episode 218.
32:52
Brenda: Mother's Day.
32:54
Brenda: It is supposed to be a day when you wear a beautiful outfit that fits perfectly, by the way, to a sumptuous patio brunch, not cooked by you, surrounded by the family members whom you are mothering.
33:11
Brenda: In the middle of the table stands a riotous bouquet of your favorite flowers, and you find a sunny but not too hot morning eating your favorite foods.
33:20
Brenda: and chatting with your family.
33:23
Brenda: After they do the dishes, they surprise you by planting fresh herbs and heirloom tomatoes in a raised garden bed at the edge of your freshly landscaped yard.
33:34
Brenda: You observe this heartwarming activity from your vantage point In a new rattan patio sectional, sipping freshly brewed iced tea.
33:48
Brenda: How am I doing?
33:49
Brenda: Sound like your Mother's Day?
33:54
Brenda: If so, I am truly thrilled for you.
33:57
Brenda: It means you are on the better side of your family's struggles and you should relish every second of this experience.
34:08
Brenda: For some though, there's another reality that plays out on a day like Mother's Day.
34:15
Brenda: For the mom who has a child, regardless of age, who's misusing or addicted to drugs and alcohol.
34:22
Brenda: Life probably isn't as tranquil or predictable as the image I just painted for you.
34:28
Brenda: And that can be painful.
34:33
Brenda: For a mom whose child or children wrestle with substances, she will experience anticipatory anxiety wondering whether or not they're alive, let alone whether they'll be coming over for French toast.
34:49
Brenda: She will wonder what her child is eating at 1, 500 miles away, or linger in her room a little longer.
34:57
Brenda: Not wanting to face the drama of the day ahead.
35:03
Brenda: She may be foggy from lack of sleep, wondering how her child will spend their recent paycheck, knowing it most likely won't be to pay bills, buy food, or secure a place to live.
35:18
Brenda: She will hope it doesn't go straight into their nose, vein, or mouth, continuing a cycle that holds them hostage another day.
35:26
Brenda: This mom lives in constant fear and dread that today might be the day she gets the phone call about an overdose.
35:35
Brenda: A collect call from jail, or worse, no call at all.
35:42
Brenda: She may get a text that promises, absolutely swears he'll stop by later, only she knows to place hope in that would be a predictable mistake.
35:55
Brenda: She might also be the mom who doesn't even realize it's Mother's Day because after months of fighting, begging, and pleading, her daughters finally agreed to go to detox, only to find out the first bed won't be open.
36:08
Brenda: Until next Tuesday.
36:11
Brenda: Mother's Day?
36:12
Brenda: What?
36:16
Brenda: People on the outside don't see that this mom is just like the one brunching on the patio.
36:24
Brenda: She created, birthed, or adopted, diapered, and carpooled this human being.
36:30
Brenda: And she should be celebrated for it.
36:36
Brenda: But she's looked at as if she's somehow responsible for the fact her son steals laptops to pawn so he can buy street suboxone to stave off the horrors of withdrawal.
36:49
Brenda: There's a stigma that says she went wrong somewhere along the way, and maybe if her parenting skills were more advanced, we Or if she were more enlightened, or did enough yoga, or read the right books, her daughter wouldn't be living in a motel with her dealer.
37:07
Brenda: This mom envies those who brunch peacefully with their kids.
37:11
Brenda: The ones who actually showed up to the restaurant sober and on time.
37:16
Brenda: Kids who somewhere along the way found coping skills that don't involve poisoning their bodies and numbing their souls.
37:25
Brenda: This mom would pay cash to have a conversation about the weather.
37:30
Brenda: Who's dating who or what campsite has been reserved for the 4th of July.
37:40
Brenda: She craves normal, covets the mundane parts of life that don't even make the radar of a mom whose kids are healthy.
37:48
Brenda: She doesn't blame them, she just wants to rewind.
37:54
Brenda: She remembers when life was right side up and she didn't have to sleep with her purse under her pillow.
38:02
Brenda: She can still smell the innocence of baby shampoo lingering in her daughter's hair after a bath.
38:11
Brenda: She is still known as the best lacrosse team mom until she had to resign when her son went away to treatment And she didn't have the strength to face the other parents on the field It wasn't always like this and she pulls at the memories of better brighter days as if to prove to herself That Mother's Day at one time was a dream was a happy day.
38:41
Brenda: On Sunday, she will be home, heart and spirit heavy.
38:45
Brenda: She might make herself some toast with extra peanut butter as a nod to what advertisers tell her is her special day.
38:56
Brenda: She will check her phone again.
38:59
Brenda: Making sure it's not unsilent, making sure it's fully charged.
39:07
Brenda: This Mother's Day, or any day, when you see that kid at the end of the freeway off ramp, with a cardboard sign, tattered backpack, and defeated face, know this mom is his, and she's not much different from you.
39:25
Brenda: And if you offer to let him use your phone, don't be surprised if you hear him say, Hey mom, it's me.
39:32
Brenda: I love you.
39:40
Brenda: It's kind of the buzzword of the moment, and you may be trying to figure out what role it may play in your child's struggles.
39:48
Brenda: I have personally listened to episode 236 twice, just to glean the wisdom and insight Dr.
39:55
Brenda: Amy Hoyt brings.
39:57
Brenda: around trauma, the role it plays in addiction and also the impact it has on our nervous system and overall health.
40:06
Brenda: Do you see a little bit of a trend here?
40:08
Brenda: Dr.
40:09
Brenda: Hoyt trained with Dr.
40:10
Brenda: Bessel who wrote the best selling book, The Body Keeps the Score, and she brilliantly ties together the root causes of many people's struggles with substances, what trauma actually is, and why noticing what's going on in your body It's probably more important than you think.
40:30
Brenda: Here is Dr.
40:31
Brenda: Amy Hoyt from episode 236.
40:34
Amy Hoyt: I had significant childhood trauma like many people do.
40:39
Amy Hoyt: And mine included physical and sexual abuse and at quite a young age.
40:44
Amy Hoyt: And so by the time I was 15, I had discovered alcohol.
40:49
Amy Hoyt: It felt like the answer to all my problems.
40:52
Amy Hoyt: And so I guess the first thing I want to call out is that often When we have significant trauma, and I realize not everyone is coming to addiction because of trauma, but often when we do have significant trauma, alcohol or drugs, they're solving a problem for us.
41:11
Amy Hoyt: And for me, I needed to numb.
41:13
Amy Hoyt: Some of that pain, because I was still living in the environment in high school, I became more dependent on alcohol and marijuana to the point where I was drinking every day before school.
41:25
Amy Hoyt: And, you know, of course, as you know, that leads to other high risk activities.
41:31
Amy Hoyt: And it was the middle of my senior year in high school.
41:34
Amy Hoyt: My best friend actually went to my parents and told them what was going on.
41:40
Brenda: Wow.
41:41
Amy Hoyt: And that, I was so upset, of course, not understanding where my addiction was coming from, not even recognizing that I had addiction.
41:51
Amy Hoyt: But kudos to my parents, they actually sent me into a program.
41:56
Amy Hoyt: I went to Hazleton in Minnesota.
42:00
Amy Hoyt: into their youth program and spent 30 days there getting sober.
42:05
Amy Hoyt: And I thought I was going to get to go home.
42:08
Amy Hoyt: And then they said, no, you, you get to go to a halfway house.
42:13
Amy Hoyt: So I spent several, I think four to five months, uh, in a halfway house in Minnesota.
42:20
Amy Hoyt: And that's where the real work.
42:22
Amy Hoyt: I mean, the, the first 30 days were critical and then really learning how to do life and have that access to therapists and to support was really, really beneficial.
42:35
Amy Hoyt: Um, and that's when all of my memories started coming back about abuse.
42:40
Amy Hoyt: For so many of us, when we have something like that happen when we're young, we, our brain protects us and it tucks that away.
42:48
Amy Hoyt: And upon getting sober.
42:50
Amy Hoyt: My brain allowed me to remember different things.
42:53
Amy Hoyt: And so that really started this process of working on myself and finding out how to recover from things that I was powerless to.
43:06
Brenda: Yeah.
43:08
Brenda: Wow.
43:09
Brenda: Okay.
43:09
Brenda: I already have a hundred questions.
43:10
Brenda: Yeah.
43:10
Brenda: Go for it.
43:11
Brenda: Just about this.
43:12
Brenda: So you didn't remember the, the abuse, but you were drinking, so you didn't know why you were drinking necessarily or why you were using.
43:21
Brenda: You just knew that there was something that it helped.
43:23
Brenda: Yep.
43:24
Brenda: And I think this is a critical point for parents to know.
43:27
Brenda: And we, we even teach in, in our approach to community reinforcement and family training, you know, ask your kid, what is the substance doing for them?
43:36
Brenda: And it's solving a problem.
43:37
Brenda: But if they don't even know why they're doing it, there's only limited amount of information they're going to be able to give you.
43:44
Brenda: So I think that's Fascinating.
43:46
Amy Hoyt: The other thing I think is important is that as we look at our children who are suffering from addiction, for whatever reason, when they start to recover, they're probably going to come to us with things that are really uncomfortable and really possibly unpleasant.
44:04
Amy Hoyt: And I have to say, my parents were amazing.
44:08
Amy Hoyt: They believed me.
44:10
Amy Hoyt: That was huge.
44:11
Amy Hoyt: They took immediate measures to check in with my other siblings who unfortunately were also all sexually abused by the same person.
44:20
Amy Hoyt: They started going to Al Anon.
44:24
Amy Hoyt: They started, they, you know, they were like, what can we do?
44:28
Amy Hoyt: They came out for family week at Hazleton.
44:31
Amy Hoyt: They really jumped in and made some significant changes in their life.
44:38
Amy Hoyt: To make it a more hospitable environment for me to be authentic, which helped me stay sober.
44:44
Amy Hoyt: What are your
44:44
Brenda: thoughts on kind of that early intervention and what that did?
44:48
Amy Hoyt: That's a great question.
44:50
Amy Hoyt: At the time, of course, I was angry.
44:53
Amy Hoyt: I tried to leave home so that I wouldn't be sent to treatment, but looking back, I think that was one of the greatest gifts they ever gave me.
45:04
Amy Hoyt: I became certified through Bessel van der Kolk's organization, and he's, you know, the godfather of trauma right now.
45:10
Amy Hoyt: This, I think, is one of the most important things to remember as a parent, that toxic stress, which is a sustained high level of stress, mimics trauma in the body, in the brain.
45:24
Amy Hoyt: And so when we talk about trauma, you can insert toxic stress in that situation and they show up the same.
45:33
Amy Hoyt: And I think what that does is it helps me as a parent realize that if my child is showing symptoms of trauma, it doesn't always mean that something was done to them.
45:43
Amy Hoyt: It could also mean that our kids are under an enormous amount of stress, which they are.
45:50
Amy Hoyt: None of our families are perfect.
45:52
Amy Hoyt: That can be stressful depending on what's happening.
45:55
Amy Hoyt: A divorce could cause toxic stress.
45:58
Amy Hoyt: We're not intentionally doing anything to our children.
46:01
Amy Hoyt: We could even be getting divorced to preserve safety and to create a healthier environment.
46:08
Amy Hoyt: But there are many, many things that create the same symptoms.
46:12
Amy Hoyt: And so I think that's important for parents to understand.
46:16
Amy Hoyt: Typical trauma could be, of course, I mean, just looking at what's called the adverse childhood experience list, ACEs, those, you know, 10 to 12 questions, depending on what year you're looking at that test.
46:29
Amy Hoyt: It can be death or loss of a caretaker.
46:32
Amy Hoyt: It can be divorce.
46:34
Amy Hoyt: It can be significant bullying.
46:37
Amy Hoyt: It can be economic hardship with the family.
46:40
Amy Hoyt: There are many, What we might consider not traumatic things that happen and in childhood cause toxic stress and trauma.
46:51
Amy Hoyt: When we're in a constant state of stress with our children over addiction or any other behavior that is really high risk, we are going to have a constant sense of stress.
47:06
Amy Hoyt: And what that does is it dumps stress.
47:10
Amy Hoyt: Cortisol, it dumps adrenaline.
47:13
Amy Hoyt: It essentially turns on our nervous system to high alert.
47:19
Amy Hoyt: So the nervous system connects our brain through our spine.
47:22
Amy Hoyt: And if you think about the nervous system as Almost having like fingers that go all throughout the body from, you know, again, your head to your toes.
47:32
Amy Hoyt: And those chemicals and that sense of stress is being conveyed all the way down your body.
47:39
Amy Hoyt: What we, what we talk about is a lot, a lot of digestive issues.
47:45
Amy Hoyt: I mean, it It's very clear, the research is very clear that we see higher rates of IBS with people with trauma and toxic stress.
47:55
Amy Hoyt: We see higher rates of autoimmune disorder and we see higher rate of diagnosed but very real pain.
48:04
Amy Hoyt: So fibromyalgia.
48:06
Amy Hoyt: The things that.
48:09
Amy Hoyt: 10 years ago were considered more fringe.
48:12
Amy Hoyt: Like, is that even a thing?
48:13
Amy Hoyt: Is that a diagnosis?
48:14
Amy Hoyt: Yes.
48:16
Amy Hoyt: It comes from the constant toxic stress and trauma that we are experiencing.
48:22
Amy Hoyt: Here's the rub.
48:24
Amy Hoyt: And this is where, I mean, I feel so passionate about this is once that's turned on and perpetually turned on in us, it is very difficult to turn it back down and to regulate our nervous system.
48:38
Amy Hoyt: And so that's one of the things we work the most on with our clients is helping them to regulate a chronically dysregulated nervous system.
48:47
Amy Hoyt: You know, I worked in Rwanda on mass trauma for several years and the studies of the people who lived during the genocide, it's actually second and third generation that have the same.
49:01
Amy Hoyt: They have the same genetic expression as if they had lived through the genocide.
49:06
Brenda: Wow.
49:07
Amy Hoyt: And it will go down up to eight generations, research has found.
49:11
Amy Hoyt: And so what that means is when we experience that toxic stress and trauma, our genes start expressing differently, and that is going to turn on pain.
49:19
Amy Hoyt: That is going to turn on symptoms that are not helpful for us.
49:25
Amy Hoyt: And it can be cleared up.
49:29
Amy Hoyt: It takes time and it takes a very firm dedication to working in our body and identifying what's happening in our body, which is really tricky for us women because we're constantly trying to put out fires with our children and our partners and our work and sometimes to our peril.
49:56
Brenda: Hey there, are you feeling stuck in a cycle of drama and arguments with your child, worried sick about their substance use?
50:04
Brenda: I have been there and I want you to know there's hope.
50:07
Brenda: This podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents.
50:14
Brenda: We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family.
50:22
Brenda: So in addition to connecting with other parents and feeling like part of something bigger, we also teach you practical skills and strategies to dial down the drama and diffuse those heated moments.
50:34
Brenda: We step you through the evidence based craft approach, a game changer that can help you invite your child to accept help without resorting to tough love or waiting for rock bottom.
50:45
Brenda: We have so much more than the podcast waiting for you.
50:48
Brenda: Head over to HopeStreamCommunity.
50:50
Brenda: org to tap into all of our resources and become part of the HopeStream family in our private online community.
50:58
Brenda: Remember, you're not alone in this.
51:00
Brenda: We're doing it together.
51:02
Brenda: Now let's get back to the conversation.
51:17
Brenda: As if you didn't have enough to deal with trying to understand what's going on with your child and then how to help them, you're also likely trying to navigate the complex maze of insurance coverage, co pays, the acronym soup of treatment programs like IOP, OP, PHP, it can be overwhelming to say the least.
51:40
Brenda: Way back in January of 2023, I attended the annual conference for the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs, which is basically where the people who own and run treatment programs gather together and work on issues in the field.
51:56
Brenda: Thank you I recorded episode 203 on my return from that conference in January, because I heard about some significant shifts taking place in the treatment landscape that will impact you and your finances greatly, and I wanted to fill you in.
52:14
Brenda: If treatment is on the horizon, or if you have a child in a program now, episode 203 Is a must listen, there has been a huge shift in the past couple of years where once privately owned programs are being bought by private equity firms who are expanding and I call it corporatizing the treatment
52:36
Mary Crocker Cook: world.
52:37
Brenda: There is good news.
52:38
Brenda: The good news is that more programs are now covered by insurance.
52:42
Brenda: Which obviously is a huge benefit for those who have coverage through their employers.
52:48
Brenda: Bad news is that the insurance company is then greatly influencing the length of stay that is going to get covered.
52:56
Brenda: Now, I'm not going to villainize this topic or the private equity firms that are, are buying up individual private programs, but I heard loud and clear that this has profoundly shifted the landscape of treatment, especially for adolescents who really need an extended length of time in treatment for substance use in particular.
53:17
Brenda: And especially when they need dual diagnosis treatment for a serious mental health issue and substance use.
53:24
Brenda: These programs are now stepping down the kids from full time residential to partial hospitalization, PHP, which leaves you as the parent, either bringing your child home to more of like an IOP locally to where you live, or to cover the gap in the cost between.
53:45
Brenda: The cost of the PHP program and the residential care, which obviously can be significant.
53:52
Brenda: I've, I've heard from our members anywhere from four to 600 a day is what they are paying to keep their child in the program that originally was going to be covered by insurance.
54:02
Brenda: If treatment is on the horizon or maybe on the horizon, call your insurance company, get to be best friends with somebody there.
54:12
Brenda: Many insurance companies today have very specific substance use and mental health treatment groups who will help you.
54:19
Brenda: So get your advocate there.
54:21
Brenda: Get somebody on the phone who will explain to you exactly what is covered.
54:26
Brenda: What is not most than what their criteria are for stepping down the level of care and ask them what the average length of stay is that they are covering.
54:36
Brenda: That is information that is critical that you need to know so that you know what you're going into and what to expect.
54:42
Brenda: Also, ask the program that you're talking to what the course of action is if your insurance company stops paying for residential care.
54:50
Brenda: And I can't tell you how many times I see this over and over.
54:54
Brenda: I just sent my child to treatment.
54:56
Brenda: It's been 11 days or it's been 14 days and we now have to step them down to a lower level of care.
55:03
Brenda: So find out ahead of time, what is the plan and how much will you be paying out of pocket to cover that gap if you decide to leave them there, which would be great, obviously, if you could leave them in that residential program, but your insurance company is only now paying a portion of that and you have to pay the gap, find out what that gap is so that you're better able to plan ahead.
55:28
Brenda: And if possible, and I know this isn't possible for everybody, but if it is possible, work with an educational consultant who can navigate this for you.
55:37
Brenda: They do this over and over hundreds of times, thousands of times.
55:40
Brenda: They understand the ins and outs.
55:43
Brenda: And they can make recommendations for you based on your specific child's history, their mental and physical health needs, any outline factors that they may have.
55:54
Brenda: And they will be able to also help factor in what may or may not be covered by insurance.
55:59
Brenda: They really are your advocate and your ally when it comes to finding the right program and also getting the longest possible length of stay for your child.
56:10
Brenda: So that was the first theme that really arose at the conference.
56:14
Brenda: The second thing that came up surrounded the time when your kids are transitioning out of a program and either coming home or going back to school or to another living situation.
56:25
Brenda: So this is the coming home and transitions theme.
56:28
Brenda: This is the time frame when I see very stressed looks on parents faces.
56:34
Brenda: Um, especially if they haven't been engaged in doing the work that is required to set their family up for success.
56:41
Brenda: And it is nerve wracking regardless, even if you've done a lot of work, it is nerve wracking.
56:47
Brenda: So I just want to touch on a few things here.
56:51
Brenda: First of all, I heard over and over from program owners.
56:54
Brenda: From clinical directors, from therapists, the transition home for adolescents in particular is very, very hard.
57:03
Brenda: It is a tricky thing to navigate and the rate of return to old patterns and use is high.
57:09
Brenda: I know that is not what you want to hear.
57:12
Brenda: If you have one of these magical creatures that you are caring for, but that is just the reality, especially if they're going back to their same high school, they're going back to the same neighborhood, all of the triggers, all of the people that were involved in whatever they were getting into before they left.
57:29
Brenda: are still there.
57:31
Brenda: And if you don't have a really solid, really engaging plan, whether that's a PHP, which is partial hospitalization program, Or an IOP intensive outpatient program.
57:44
Brenda: If you don't have one of those options specifically created for adolescents, it is hard to have enough scaffolding around them when they return home and finding an adolescent PHP or IOP in your area is really, really important, but not always easy.
58:02
Brenda: It's definitely not easy to find one that your child is going to want to go to.
58:07
Brenda: There are luckily some more innovative approaches and some non traditional programs that are coming online for adolescents because of this shift.
58:16
Brenda: Other resources that you might want to check into are look for a sober or recovery high school.
58:23
Brenda: There is an association of recovery high schools.
58:26
Brenda: Again, I'll put a link in the show notes to that.
58:28
Brenda: So you can search and see if there's one in your area.
58:31
Brenda: You can also research alternative peer groups or APGs and even try talking to a local social worker who works in the adolescent space to find out what's available.
58:42
Brenda: Sometimes these programs are small, they might not have a web presence.
58:47
Brenda: Or their web presence might not get picked up in Google's algorithm.
58:51
Brenda: So just make the phone your best friend and start talking to everybody that you can.
58:57
Brenda: So this year's conference had multiple sessions focused on family versus past years that I've attended where there may have only just been like one or two sessions.
59:07
Brenda: So programs see kids make so much progress while they're with them and they watch them grow and they watch them blossom and then they watch them return to homes where one or both parents have not done the work that is required to meet them in that new place.
59:24
Brenda: And that is really difficult.
59:27
Brenda: And I loved this saying that I heard in one of the sessions, which was when you react like you used to react.
59:34
Brenda: So re act, when you react like you used to react, your child will react with how they used to react.
59:45
Brenda: So you can see how it's really easy for your child to come home and everybody just falls back into the same old patterns.
59:52
Brenda: What I heard was parents really need to be encouraged to think in terms of shifts versus change.
59:58
Brenda: This doesn't happen all at once.
1:00:00
Brenda: So if you are not seeing a night and day, if you are not seeing 100 percent adherence to whatever the goals are, think in terms of shifts.
1:00:11
Brenda: Are things shifting over time in a more positive direction?
1:00:16
Brenda: Everybody has to get on board with some new ideas, maybe some new boundaries, new ways of responding to each other, new ways of communicating.
1:00:26
Brenda: And again, if your child is in a insurance covered program, just because you went in thinking that was going to be 30 days or 60 days, doesn't necessarily mean it is.
1:00:36
Brenda: And you are going to want to have some of this preempted.
1:00:39
Brenda: So start talking about transition.
1:00:41
Brenda: And finally, I wanted to reshare this segment from episode 243 with Jared Murray because he so perfectly addresses the myth that someone has to want treatment before it can be effective.
1:01:27
Brenda: He also talks about the important role parents boundaries play in the process of moving someone towards accepting help.
1:01:35
Brenda: You'll also hear how just because it doesn't look or sound like your child is open to treatment, Doesn't mean that's true.
1:01:42
Brenda: It is a gold mine.
1:01:44
Brenda: Take a listen and then download episode 243.
1:01:48
Brenda: So you can listen to the whole show with Jared Murray for Momentum Recovery.
1:01:53
Jared Murray: Working with young adults and working with adolescents, you know, specifically those demographics like we deal with a lot of treatment resistance.
1:02:01
Jared Murray: We deal with a lot of pre contemplation where they're not so sure that they really have a problem and they're really struggling to accept the fact that they have a problem, you know, we deal with those things on a really deep level and and Coaching the whole entire family and trying to get the family system to a place of understanding that, you know, it's really hard for us to gauge your loved one who's struggling.
1:02:25
Jared Murray: It's really hard for us to gauge their, their motivation right now when they're in a position where they can't make rational decisions,
1:02:31
Brenda: right?
1:02:32
Jared Murray: If we look at what happens in the brain.
1:02:34
Jared Murray: with the disease of addiction and how it hijacks the midbrain and the prefrontal cortex.
1:02:38
Jared Murray: When we start to understand that on a deeper level, I always try to help families see, like, they can't make a rational decision regarding what they need.
1:02:46
Jared Murray: You know, and that doesn't mean that they're not ready for help, and that doesn't mean that they won't be successful in treatment.
1:02:52
Jared Murray: Because that's what every parent gets hung up on, right?
1:02:54
Jared Murray: It's like, well, they're not going to be successful until they ask for help.
1:02:57
Jared Murray: Or until they're ready, you know, and it's like, well, we can't sit around and wait for them to make the decision to go to treatment because that probably won't ever happen if it's left up to them.
1:03:07
Jared Murray: Right.
1:03:08
Jared Murray: And, and I, and I know for me, like, when I look at my story, I wanted help a long time before I actually got help, you know, and, and even though I had that gift of desperation, like that light bulb moment didn't happen for me until I was in treatment.
1:03:23
Jared Murray: You know, like, the day before I went to treatment, when I was getting arrested, I was telling those police officers, you don't understand, like, I've been clean for two weeks, guys, like, I don't need treatment, I don't need any help, and, and I was, like, believing the insane things that I was saying.
1:03:38
Jared Murray: That's how delusional, that's how delusional I was, you know?
1:03:41
Jared Murray: Like, they're finding narcotics in my vehicle, and paraphernalia, and I'm telling them I have not used in two weeks, and somewhat believing the lies, you know?
1:03:50
Jared Murray: So, it's like, how can we let that individual You know, how can we gauge their motivation or their readiness for treatment when they clearly are having a hard time separating between what's true and what's not and what's real and what's not, you know?
1:04:03
Jared Murray: So I do try to put some responsibility on the family.
1:04:06
Jared Murray: In this sense, to like, let's put some boundaries in place, from a place of love, let's utilize what leverage we have to hopefully try to get them into treatment and help them make this decision, since they're going to be incapable of making this decision on their own, left up to their own thinking, you know, because it's all about, it's not about how they get there, it's about the work that they do once they get there, right?
1:04:27
Jared Murray: Let's try to raise their bottom and teach them that they can put the shovel down and they don't have to dig that hole any deeper.
1:04:34
Jared Murray: If families have the ability to hire a professional interventionist to step in and do an intervention, I think that process is great.
1:04:41
Jared Murray: It's not like what you see on TV.
1:04:43
Jared Murray: Everyone thinks interventions are such like a traumatic experience.
1:04:46
Jared Murray: I'm like, it really can be one of the most loving, you know, experiences that really brings the whole family together, you know, because what we're trying to effectively do in an intervention.
1:04:55
Jared Murray: is pull some heartstrings to get their loved one to commit to going to treatment.
1:04:59
Jared Murray: So, in combination of doing an intervention and putting in place some healthy boundaries from a place of love, the goal is to help, to help someone be able to make a rational decision regarding getting treatment since they're incapable of making it on their own.
1:05:12
Jared Murray: You know, the young men that we work with at Momentum, they all come in because of boundaries.
1:05:19
Jared Murray: They all come in to our program because parents are utilizing leverage, you know.
1:05:24
Jared Murray: They come in initially not wanting to be there, not being super stoked about treatment, but, but they come in because parents have done some sort of intervention or they've put some boundaries in place, and then at that point, it's our job to try to help get them engaged in recovery.
1:05:40
Jared Murray: I would always tell a family if they were calling me, wondering when the correct time is to, you know, try to intervene.
1:05:47
Jared Murray: You know, it would be at the first sign that we know that this person really needs help.
1:05:51
Jared Murray: You know, like, I, I don't like waiting around for, like, uh, for, for them to ask for help or for them to show some readiness or to show some motivation.
1:06:00
Jared Murray: Because, like I said, a lot of times, like, we won't ever really see that if we wait for it, you know?
1:06:05
Jared Murray: But I think the things to look for in terms of You know, signs of substance use is like, are they isolating from the family in our gut?
1:06:12
Jared Murray: Do we believe something is truly going on with them?
1:06:15
Jared Murray: You know, like what kind of money are they spending?
1:06:18
Jared Murray: You know, what, what kind of other issues seem to be going on with them from a relationship standpoint and a friendship standpoint?
1:06:24
Jared Murray: What crowd are they hanging around?
1:06:26
Jared Murray: I don't know the various different things we can look for to try to pinpoint.
1:06:30
Jared Murray: Are they dealing with substance use issues?
1:06:32
Jared Murray: And I guess for my family to be more blunt, like All those things times 10 were staring them in the face, right?
1:06:39
Jared Murray: But they still had a really hard time accepting the truth of what was going on with me.
1:06:44
Jared Murray: And I think a lot of that was their own fear of if we do accept that, that's the problem.
1:06:51
Jared Murray: Then there's going to be a lot of work and a lot of things we have to do and a lot of hard decisions we have to make.
1:06:56
Jared Murray: Right?
1:06:56
Jared Murray: And sometimes we rationalize and justify things as an attempt to not have to deal with those difficult things.
1:07:02
Jared Murray: And I think that was what my family went through.
1:07:05
Jared Murray: On top of.
1:07:06
Jared Murray: having a hard time accepting that their son had a substance abuse issue, you know, and just the, the stigma that's associated around that.
1:07:14
Jared Murray: And as a result of my parents, like, justifying and rationalizing things just like I was for a long time, I think that's what prolonged me getting the help that I needed and them getting the help that they needed.
1:07:26
Jared Murray: Right.
1:07:27
Jared Murray: And, and I was really good at convincing them and everything was okay.
1:07:31
Jared Murray: And we all kind of lived in this, in this, You know, state of denial for so long.
1:07:36
Jared Murray: It was like my addiction held their heads underwater and they couldn't even take a breath, you know, for years.
1:07:40
Jared Murray: And, you know, we, we look at how.
1:07:43
Jared Murray: Addiction and Substance Use Disorder, right, affects the whole entire family system, and it affects the family just in the same way that it does the individual who's using.
1:07:51
Jared Murray: And so, my mom was not able to make rational decisions, just like I wasn't, you know?
1:07:57
Jared Murray: And so, that's why it's a lot of times good to bring in an outsider who can help us and steer all of us in the right direction with all of these things, you know?
1:08:05
Jared Murray: As far as the stigma goes and the barrier that it presents, you know, from keeping people from getting help and that the families that we work with, like you're saying, like, you know, we need to view them as a cancer patient, you know, they're suffering from a progressive incurable disease, just like cancer, just like diabetes, just like any of those things.
1:08:24
Jared Murray: And how can, I guess our job in this field is like, how can we get the family to a place of viewing them that way and and having that level of compassion and empathy for them again, right?
1:08:38
Jared Murray: And what makes it so difficult with substance use disorder is to continue to view them that way.
1:08:43
Jared Murray: Is we get compassion fatigue, you know, like, cause the person from, the person who does have cancer doesn't steal from you, doesn't lie to you, doesn't wreck your vehicle that, you know, like there's not all this external wreckage and unmanageability that happens.
1:08:58
Jared Murray: So we lose compassion, you know, and which causes us to quickly lose sight of what it is that they're really suffering from.
1:09:05
Jared Murray: And when it's our loved ones, you know, like it really makes it difficult, you know, like I can coach.
1:09:12
Jared Murray: Brenda, I can coach families all day long on maintaining compassion and why it's important and how it's crucial to be able to have that to get your loved one help.
1:09:20
Jared Murray: But when it comes to my own family member that's struggling, I lose that compassion quick, you know what I mean?
1:09:25
Jared Murray: And I'm like, well, why can't they just quit?
1:09:28
Jared Murray: They're just not being smart.
1:09:29
Jared Murray: You know, I can't, they're just being dumb.
1:09:31
Jared Murray: They're just, you know, and like, and I started to have that same mindset that a family has and I lose sight of like what it is that they're really suffering from.
1:09:40
Brenda: Okay, my friend, it was so hard to pull just a smidge of the incredible episodes from this year.
1:09:46
Brenda: And in case you didn't catch all the episode numbers, remember we've got you with the PDF.
1:09:52
Brenda: You can go to HopeStreamCommunity.
1:09:54
Brenda: org, then click on podcast and go to the 2024 Golden Nuggets episode page to download that PDF where we have them all listed and linked out for you.
1:10:04
Brenda: You can always find show notes for any episode you listen to there.
1:10:08
Brenda: That's where we give you the resources, the links, everything from that show, and a full transcript if that's helpful.
1:10:16
Brenda: Just go to HopeStreamCommunity.
1:10:17
Brenda: org, click on podcast.
1:10:19
Brenda: If you don't see the episode, there is a search bar where you can search by the guest name, a topic, or a keyword.
1:10:26
Brenda: And we also have a bunch of playlists where you can find episodes that are grouped by topic.
1:10:31
Brenda: So it's really your full access resource to over 250 HopeStream episodes.
1:10:37
Brenda: While you are on our website, you can also download a free ebook I wrote.
1:10:42
Brenda: It's called Worried Sick, A Compassionate Guide for Parents of Teens and Young Adults Struggling with Substances.
1:10:49
Brenda: It'll introduce you to concepts from the craft approach and help you feel more informed and confident.
1:10:55
Brenda: about navigating this tricky path you're on.
1:10:59
Brenda: You can go to HopeStreamCommunity.
1:11:01
Brenda: org forward slash worried to get that.
1:11:05
Brenda: Thank you so much for hanging out with me this year, for your hard work, all the effort you're putting into your family.
1:11:12
Brenda: You truly, truly are an elite level parent.
1:11:16
Brenda: Most people don't know or see what you are doing day in and day out, but I do.
1:11:22
Brenda: And I am sending you so much love, light, peace, and positivity your way today and every day.
1:11:31
Brenda: I'm so grateful for you and I'll meet you right back here next week.