Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Contentious Battle Over The Venue (10/15/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Contentious Battle Over The Venue (10/15/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Whenever
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: there's a case like the one we see up in Moscow,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you have to think that at the very least, there's
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: going to be some discussion about a change of venue
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: for the trial. And we saw the same thing happen
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: down in Delphi and the judge down there came up
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: with a solution that I think is the best idea
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: when all is said and done. You keep the trial
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: in the county where the crime occurred But you bring
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: the jury in from some of the other counties surrounding
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the area. That way, the people of Moscow, the people
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: of Latak County, well, they're still getting the justice they deserve.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: But Brian Kohlberger is getting a jury pool that might
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: not be as tainted. So I think that's the best
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: way to go about that. But who knows what they're
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: going to do up here in Idaho? I thought that
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Judge Marshall would have something to say. about Ann Taylor
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: and her conflict of interest, but she's okay with that too.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So who knows what they're going to do here one
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: way or the other as far as the venue, but
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: we have an article from the Idaho Statesman. And in
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: this article, we hear from some local experts and some
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: legal scholars about the possibility of a change of venue.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So let's dive into the Idaho Statesman and let's see
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: what author Angela Palermo has for us. Headline. Would Brian
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Koberger's murder trial stay in Latah County? What the experts say.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger won't be seen in court again till June.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Even after that appearance, a preliminary hearing at the Latah
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: County Courthouse, it will be longer before a potential jury
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: trial may form. The 28-year-old is accused of stabbing four
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: University of Idaho students to death at an off-campus home
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: in November. At the hearing on June 26th, the prosecuting
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: attorney is tasked with presenting evidence that shows there is
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: probable cause to believe Brian Kohlberger committed the crimes. So
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: we've already seen the probable cause affidavit. Now at the
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: preliminary hearing, they're going to have to defend that probable
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: cause affidavit and provide some more evidence to the judge.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: And then we'll have discovery and all of that good
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: stuff as well. But everything hinges on what happens on
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: the 26th. Koberger faces four counts of felony first-degree murder
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: and a felony burglary charge in the November 13th attack
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: that took the lives of Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanna Kernodle,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin. If he pleads not guilty, the court
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: will set a trial date. A few critical questions loom,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: including whether the trial would be moved to a different county.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: And look, it's certainly a possibility, but I don't think
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: that it's going to happen. This day and age with
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: technology the way it is, I think it's a bit
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of a harder sell these days to get a whole
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: ass trial moved to a different county when you can
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: just bust the jurors in like they're doing down in Delphi.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I think that's the most equitable way to go about
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: something like this, where everybody's rights are respected, the people
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: of the local community can still come to the proceedings
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: if they want, and people who are affected don't have
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: to travel too far to see justice done. Either party,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: the prosecution or the defense, could file a motion for
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a change of venue. If granted, the change would transfer
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: the trial to a county away from Moscow, the roughly 26,000
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: population college town in North Idaho, that's drawn unrelenting attention
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: from national news outlets and true crime enthusiasts in the
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: months since the four student deaths. Why move the trial?
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: There are several arguments to be made for changing the venue,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: but chief among them is the effect of pretrial publicity
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: on potential jurors, according to Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsay Blake.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: In early 2021, Blake took over the prosecution of a
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: high-profile criminal case against Lori Vallow Daybell and Chad Daybell,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: who were charged with multiple counts of first-degree murder and
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: conspiracy to commit murder, in the deaths of two of
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Lori's children and Chad Daybell's first wife, Tammy Daybell. Chad
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Daybell's lawyer requested a change of venue for the trial,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: arguing that substantial media attention would affect the court's ability
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: to find a fair and unbiased jury in Fremont County
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: in East Idaho. A judge granted the request, moving the
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: trial to Ada County Courthouse in Boise. While the case
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: is still under Fremont County's jurisdiction, the jurors will be
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: from Ada County. The decision to move a trial is
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: up to the judge, Blake said. Most often, she added,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: it's at the request of the defense, not the prosecution.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: So in Idaho, with Daybell and Lori over here, they
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: did move the venue. So there would seem to be
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: precedent here in Idaho to do that. But I don't
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: know where they're coming up with all of these tax dollars,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: considering that Ann Taylor is making a king's ransom already.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Each case is decided on an individual basis, Blake told
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: the Idaho Statesman by phone. But a lot of the
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: times they're looking at pretrial publicity. They feel they could
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: get a more impartial jury. See, I just don't buy
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: that these days. That's a hard sell for me. And
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: if I was a judge, you'd really have to sell it.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Because with technology, nobody is not getting information. Everybody knows
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: about these murders. Everybody knows what occurred. And I don't
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: think there's a single person in Idaho who wasn't following along.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: The Idaho Supreme Court says a judge may change the
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: location of a trial if there is a reason to
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: believe an impartial trial can't be held in the county
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: where the case is filed, or if the convenience of
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: witnesses and the ends of justice would be promoted by
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: the change. Could an impartial jury be found in Moscow?
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: And that's a tough question. Probably not, if we're being honest, right?
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And that's why I said, bring in some jurors from
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: an outside county. On December 28th, two days before Brian
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Koberger's arrest, the statesman interviewed Latah County Prosecuting Attorney Bill
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Thompson at his office in Moscow. When asked whether he
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: thought an unbiased jury could be found in Latah County
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: should the case come to trial, he seemed optimistic. I
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: don't see why we wouldn't. As long as there's not
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: irresponsible dissemination of information, Thompson said. At the time, few
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: details about the investigation had been released to the public,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: and the public was still unaware Brian Kohlberger had been
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: identified as a suspect. But in the weeks leading up
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to his arrest, Moscow Police Chief James Fry did various
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: interviews with the media that offered glimmers of hope. As
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: the prosecuting attorney, Thompson said he's concerned with making sure
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the prosecution is done in a fair and legal manner.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: He said professional ethics rules restrict what he can release
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: outside of court because he doesn't want to create bias
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: in the community. And it was a master stroke. Got
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: to give Thompson a lot of credit here. And if
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for the miscommunication at the very beginning, they'd
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: get five gold stars for the way they went about this.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: We have a legal obligation to not do anything to
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: taint the potential jury pool Because when we come to
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: a trial, we need to be able to select jurors
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: who don't have a preconceived opinion of what occurred. Jurors
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: who can be fair and impartial and can listen to
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the evidence in court and make a decision based on
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: that evidence. He said it's really important to protect the
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: integrity of the criminal process. But it's a balancing act.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Thompson agreed the public has a right to know what's
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: going on. And that's where you separate the really good
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: prosecutors and the really good judges from the bad ones.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: A good prosecutor knows how to toe the line, right?
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: They know just how much information to give out and
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: how much information to hold back. Now, a sweeping non-dissemination order,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: also known as a gag order, prevents attorneys, law enforcement agencies,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: and others associated with the case from talking or writing
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: about it. Thompson and Kohlberger's court-appointed defense team Kootenai County
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Public Defender Ann Taylor and Chief Deputy Litigator Jay Weston-Lodgson
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: filed a document January 3rd demanding the judge issue a
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: gag order writing that the restrictions it imposes would protect
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: the integrity of the case to be presented at trial.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: So that should be enough. If you're going to slap
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: us all with this gag order, then it should be
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: enough to protect the integrity of what's going to happen
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: with the jury pool. If not, then what's the point
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: of having the gag order in the first place? This
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: case involves matters that have received a great deal of publicity.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Both parties wrote the court has both a constitutional duty
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: and the inherent authority to minimize the effects of prejudicial
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: pretrial publicity and to ensure the facious administration of justice.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: And there's no doubt that all of that should occur
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: and that Brian Kohlberger's legal team should be asking for
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: all of this. My question is, is the judge going
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: to be receptive and move it to a different county?
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I would hope not, but I guess there's precedent here,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: like we said earlier, for that to occur. Where else
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: could the trial go? Former Idaho Attorney General Lieutenant Governor
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: David Leroy told the statesman that every defendant in a
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: criminal case in the U.S. is entitled to a trial
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: by a jury of peers. Those peers are supposed to
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: approach any jury service as unbiased and without opinions formed
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: in advance of the case, Leroy said. Jurors must decide
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: whether someone has been shown to be guilty beyond a
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: reasonable doubt solely by evidence that's produced in the courtroom.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: And that's the way it's supposed to work. If you
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: walk into that courtroom as a juror, you should suspend
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: any of your bullshit and wait until you get to
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: see the evidence. Now, does everybody do that? Of course not.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: So that's why they have to move sometimes to a
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: different district or a different county to try and ensure
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: a fair trial. That evidence can take different forms, including
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: scientific tests and witness testimony. In the 19-page probable cause
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: affidavit used to arrest Koberger, Authorities laid out how they
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: employed DNA evidence, vehicle and cell phone records, and other
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: surveillance to find their suspect. The difference between Moscow residents
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: and the rest of the state, Leroy said, is the
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: proximity to the crimes. And that's not wrong. He's definitely
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: right about that. But I don't think we can go
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: into things with a preconceived notion that you're not going
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: to be able to find a jury in Latah County.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: So what? Everybody's tainted. Nobody's going to be fair. I
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: don't know if I buy that. Leroy said conversations among
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: people in the community, along with the temptation for news
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: crews to drive by the King Road home where the
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: four students were killed, have been pervasive. Leroy said Koberger's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: defense team would likely presume that finding a jury in
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Latah County without previous opinions of the case would be difficult.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: He said Lewiston in Nez Perce County, just 30 miles
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: south of Moscow, could provide a potential change of venue.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: so could Coeur d'Alene in Kootenai County, about 85 miles north,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: or Boise in Ada County, about 300 miles south. So
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I guess all of those are an option. And the
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: way Judge Marshall's rolling, who the hell knows which way
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: she's going to go. But I would think moving it
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: 30 miles away would be a bit stupid, right? What's
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: the point? So people who are 30 miles away have
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: no connection to what's going on in Moscow? That would
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: be like saying to me that if somebody got killed
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: in Summerlin, that it would be cool to just move
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: the trial down to East Las Vegas. What does that
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: even mean? How would that change anything? Three of the
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: victims hail from Kootenai County. Community responds to media scrutiny.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Even with Koberger's next court appearance over four months away,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: the fatal stabbings still garner significant news coverage in Idaho
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and across the country. in the days and weeks following
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the quadruple homicide, reporters flock to the scene of the crime. Well,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: that's what happens. Whenever a story like this catches fire,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: not only is the national media going to show up,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: you're going to have international media showing up as well.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: And like I always say, the bigger the tent, the
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: bigger the circus. The university's student newspaper, The Argonaut, wrote
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: an article about the news coverage February 1st that nobody
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: could have anticipated the swarm of cameras and out-of-town reporters
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: that converged on U of I's campus and throughout the town.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: The Argonaut also reported that students have been active about
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: their discontent with all the attention on social media. And
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: on the flip side of that, if nobody was talking
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: about it and nobody was covering it, the local media
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: would be pissed because everyone was ignoring them. What's happening
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: now is the local media is getting mad because they're
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: getting scooped. They should have these sources already cultivated and
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: then you have the national media show up like People
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Magazine and News Nation and they cultivate sources right away.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm guessing there's a little bit of animosity from
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: the local media that they're getting scooped. In a very high-profile,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: high-publicity case such as this one, it's going to be
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: very difficult to find anyone anywhere in Idaho that hasn't
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: heard something about the case, Leroy said. Well, yeah, that's
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: what I've said from the beginning. Even in a place
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: like New York or California. When you have a story
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: like this, everybody's heard it. But that doesn't automatically mean
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: that the whole entire jury pool is tainted. We've seen
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: it many times with high-profile cases. So... I don't know
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: if they're going to move this, folks, OK? But I
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be shocked if they do split the baby like
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: they did down in Delphi and bus these jurors in
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: from a different county. So we'll see what happens and
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: we'll see how it shakes out. And obviously, this is
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: one of those stories that's going to continue to evolve
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: until at the very least we get to the courtroom.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with the episode can
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box. T-Mobile 5G. What's up
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: everyone and welcome back to the program. In this episode,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: we're going to spin back up to Moscow and we're
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: going to talk a little bit more about Brian Koberger's
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: response to the prosecutors when it comes to the change
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: of venue. And yesterday we took a look at the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: court document. Today, we have an article from the Idaho
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Statesman that's going to go a little bit deeper into
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: what's going on. So let's just dive right into this
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: article from the Idaho Statesman and let's see what they
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: have for us. Headline, Brian Kohlberger's defense doubles down on
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: moving Moscow murder trial to Boise. This article was authored
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: by Kevin Fixler. The defense for Brian Kohlberger, who was
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: accused of the University of Idaho student homicides, rejected arguments
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: from prosecutors that Moscow was remains an acceptable place for
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the suspect to receive a fair trial next summer. And
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: if I thought that this would make a difference as
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: far as him getting a fair shake or not, I'd
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: be completely on board. But this day and age, I
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: don't think it has that big of an effect. Everybody
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: has the internet, everybody knows who Brian Koberger is, and
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: everybody knows what he allegedly done, so I don't think
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: it matters where you move it to. Now, with that said,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I understand 1000% why Koberger's team would want this move.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Makes a lot of sense for them, right? They feel
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: like they'll have a much better shot with a different
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: jury pool. And while they've made some valid arguments, I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: don't think it's going to be enough to knock Judge
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Judge off of the perch and move this trial to
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: a different county. However, we might see them bus in
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: some jurors from a county outside of Leyta, kind of
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: like we saw down in Delphi. Certainly something that I
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: could see happening. But moving the whole entire proceeding seems
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: a bit ridiculous. Alyssa Massoth, one of Koberger's attorneys, continued
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: to push to move their client's capital murder trial 300
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: miles south to Boise. The North Idaho region has been
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: tainted by intense media coverage of the case, she wrote,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: which has created a mob mentality about Koberger's possible culpability.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: And of course, they say the evidence for that came
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: with the survey. And the way that the survey respondents
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: answered the questions leads them to believe that Brian Koberger
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: will be unable to get a fair trial in Moscow,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: and they say that that assertion's backed up by what
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: their experts had to say, not only in their declarations,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: but when they appeared at that proceeding. The traumatized town
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: of Moscow is understandably filled with deeply held prejudgment opinions
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: of guilt, Massoth wrote in a Monday court filing made
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: public Tuesday. Leyta County mob mentality will never produce a
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: jury pool that results in a cross-section of the community.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: The defense backed its preference for a venue change to
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the Idaho Capitol for the trial with results from a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: phone survey conducted by a hired trial consultant. They supported
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: it with analysis from a University of Nevada, Reno social psychologist,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: whom they may also call as an expert witness at
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: a court hearing next week over the venue change question
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: before Judge John Judge. And make no mistake, folks, the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: whole situation with Brian Koberger is going to come down
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: to a battle of the experts, like it always does.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: whose experts are more believable, and where does the evidence land?
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: That's what the jury is going to be looking for. Koberger, 29,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: is charged with killing the four U of I students
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: at an off-campus home in November of 2022. The victims
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: were seniors Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves, both 21, juniors
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Anna Kernodle and freshman Ethan Chapin, both 20. Koberger was
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: arrested on suspicion of the fatal stabbings in late December
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: 2022 at his parents' home, in eastern Pennsylvania, where he
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: grew up. Koberger faces four counts of first-degree murder and
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: one count of felony burglary. Prosecutors plan to seek the
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: death penalty for Koberger if he is convicted. A court
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: hearing over possible challenges to the death penalty is tentatively
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: scheduled for early November, and there's going to be a
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of this in the lead-up to Brian Koberger's trial.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: A ton of proceedings, a ton of motions, and a
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: ton of decisions that have to be made by the court.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Trial in Moscow, a complete pain for the community. Prosecutors
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: last week submitted their written opposition to the defense's request
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: to move the trial out of Moscow. Latah County Prosecutor
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Bill Thompson, who is leading the prosecution of Koberger, said
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the defense had failed to meet the burden under Idaho
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: law to show that a venue change was necessary or convenient.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Thompson wrote, And look, upon a jury pool from a
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: neighboring county thompson wrote he suggested selecting a jury from
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: nearby nez percy county and driving them in for coberger's
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: trial and look i think that this is where we're
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: going to end up and i've said that from the
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: jump i think that a jury is going to get
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: pulled in from a different county and that's the way
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: judge is going to split the baby right give each
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: side a little bit of a victory, and keep it moving.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Moscow Mayor Art Betke told the Idaho statesman in an
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: interview earlier this year that he doesn't see the point
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: of taking Koberger's trial elsewhere in Idaho. My personal opinion
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: is there's no need to move the trial anyplace else,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: because everybody in the state knows about the broad strokes
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: of what went on, he said, so that alone is
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: not justifiable reason to move the trial to a different locale,
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and that's my position as well. If this was something
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: that nobody knew about, and it wasn't something that was
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: highly publicized outside of Moscow, you might have a leg
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: to stand on. But in the situation that we have here,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: I honestly don't see how you can make this a
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: valid argument and think it's going to stick, because I
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: just don't think it's going to work for Brian Kohlberger.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Although holding the trial in Moscow would come with the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: return of major effects on residents, Betke said, the city
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: would be better prepared this time around for the arrival
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: of media and others who may travel to attend in person.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: After so much heartache and adverse impacts following the students' deaths,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: perhaps some local benefit could come from keeping Koberger's trial
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: in town, he said. Well, there's no doubt that there's
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: going to be a benefit for restaurants, for hotels, for,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: you know, people going out and spending money in the
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: town in general. There's going to be a lot of
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: that coming along with this trial. And that's because there's
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: so many people who are interested. There's going to be
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of people descending on Moscow once this all
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: starts taking place. And these people are going to have
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: to eat, right? They have to sleep somewhere. They have
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: to spend money on deodorant or whatever. And where are
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: they going to do that? Well, they're going to do
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: it in Moscow. It's a complete pain for the community,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: but there is an economic benefit to be realized if
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the trial were still here, Betge said. And considering this
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: town has already been racked financially when we're talking about
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: what happened here with the murders. I would think that
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: a little financial injection would be a good thing. But
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: is it worth it, right? If you're a resident of Moscow,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: is the juice worth the squeeze? And we might say
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: from wherever we're at that, yeah, of course it is.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: But if you live there and it's something you have
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: to deal with once it starts, I don't know if
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: your opinion would be the same, honestly. I know I
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want to live in a small-ass town that was
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: taken over by the media. That sounds terrible, honestly. But
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: there's no doubt that if this trial is going to
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: take place, and it is, it should take place in Moscow.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: And for me, it has nothing to do with financial reasons.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: It has to do with, this is where the crime
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: was committed. These people, as far as the people who
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: live in Moscow, they're the victims. They should be the
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: ones who pass judgment on Brian Kohlberger, and they should
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: be the ones to decide if he's innocent or guilty.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: The defense argues for Ada County trial. Prosecutors also argued
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: last week that the interest of justice for keeping the
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: trial in Moscow should consider the families of the four
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: victims who live nearby and may seek to attend the trial.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: Judge set a trial date of June 2025. And for me,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: this is the most important. The people who were affected,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: they shouldn't have to change their lives or schedules to
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: go to this trial. This trial should be where it
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: should be, and that's in Moscow. and the survey that
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's team did, and the results that came back
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: from it, that's not enough to knock me off my
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: perch and think that this should be moved to a
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: different county. The parents of Kaylee Gonsalves, who lives about
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: 30 minutes north of Coeur d'Alene in Rathdrum, have been
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: the most vocal of the victim's families during the pre-trial
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: phase of the case. Earlier this summer, the Gonsalves family
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: reported attorney issued a statement on their behalf that requested
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: that the trial stay in Leyta County. The defense responded
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: in their filing Monday that a prosecutor's proposal to keep
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the trial in Moscow but bring in a jury prospects
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: from the county directly south still would be insufficient for
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: achieving an impartial group of people to serve as jurors
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: with their client's life possibly on the line. Ada County,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: with its much greater population, grants Kohlberger the best chance
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: at a fair trial, they wrote. Expanding the jury pool,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Danez Percy, is not a remedy, the court filing read.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: They have been exposed to 36% of the total media
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: coverage and are more than 10 times likely to encounter
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: coverage as compared to residents of Ada County. The media
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: coverage in print, online, as well as on television and
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: radio is often inaccurate and inflammatory, the defense wrote, without
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: providing a specific example. The sheer amount of coverage in
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: the closely watched case is disqualifying of Moscow hosting the trial,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: they wrote. I don't believe any of that. And remember,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: it was Brian Koberger who wanted the gag order. So
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: if you want to set the record straight and you
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: want to make sure that the real information is getting
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: out there and you don't have anything to hide, what's
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: up with the gag order, homie? Don't come here and
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: start crying that the media is reporting things that aren't
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: true when it was you and your team that pushed
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: for this gag order. You can't have it both ways.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I know that if it was me, and I was innocent,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't want a gag order. I'd want people talking
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: about it. I'd want it everywhere, all over the media,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: and I'd want my people out there talking about how
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: innocent I was. We don't see that here, do we?
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: The media coverage inundating Latah County does not tell citizens
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: that no evidence has been presented at this time, that
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: there are no facts on the record at this time,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: that Brian Koberger is innocent, Masoff argued in the filing.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Publicity regarding Mr. Koberger has been ongoing since December 30th, 2022.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: It rises and falls, but does not wane. Judge will
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: hear oral arguments about a possible venue change on August
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: 29th at the Leyta County Courthouse in Moscow. Well, folks,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: things are moving at least, right? As opposed to being
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: stuck in neutral, at least we're moving towards the end
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: date here. But do I think that Brian Koberger is
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: going to be victorious when it comes to the venue change?
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I do not. And I think if anything, we're going
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to see a jury get bussed in from a different county.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: But either way, we'll keep our finger on the pulse.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And when we have some more information to share, we'll
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: make sure to get it added to the catalog. All
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: of the information that goes with this episode can be
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: found in the description box. What's up everyone and welcome
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: back to the program. In this episode, we're going to
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: spin back up to Moscow and we're going to talk
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: a little bit more about Brian Koberger's response to to
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: the prosecutors when it comes to the change of venue.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And yesterday we took a look at the court document. Today,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: we have an article from the Idaho Statesman that's going
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: to go a little bit deeper into what's going on.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: So let's just dive right into this article from the
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Idaho Statesman and let's see what they have for us. Headline,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's defense doubles down on moving Moscow murder trial
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: to Boise. This article was authored by Kevin Fixler. The
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: defense for Brian Kohlberger, who was accused of the University
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: of Idaho student homicides, rejected arguments from prosecutors that Moscow
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: remains an acceptable place for the suspect to receive a
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: fair trial next summer. And if I thought that this
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: would make a difference as far as him getting a
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: fair shake or not, I'd be completely on board. But
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: this day and age, I don't think it has that
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: big of an effect. Everybody has the internet, everybody knows
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: who Brian Koberger is, and everybody knows what he allegedly done.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: So I don't think it matters where you move it to. Now,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: with that said, I understand 1000% why Koberger's team would
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: want this move. Makes a lot of sense for them, right?
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: They feel like they'll have a much better shot with
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: a different jury pool. And while they've made some valid arguments,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be enough to knock
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Judge Judge off of the perch and move this trial
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: to a different county. However, we might see them bus
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: in some jurors from a county outside of Leyta, kind
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: of like we saw down in Delphi. Certainly something that
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: I could see happening, but moving the whole entire proceeding
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: seems a bit ridiculous. Alyssa Massoth, one of Kohlberger's attorneys,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: continued to push to move their client's capital murder trial
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: 300 miles south to Boise. The North Idaho region has
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: been tainted by intense media coverage of the case, she wrote,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: which has created a mob mentality. about Koberger's possible culpability.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: And of course, they say the evidence for that came
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: with the survey. And the way that the survey respondents
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: answered the questions leads them to believe that Brian Koberger
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: will be unable to get a fair trial in Moscow.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: And they say that that assertion's backed up by what
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: their experts had to say, not only in their declarations,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: but when they appeared at that proceeding. The traumatized town
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: of Moscow is understandably filled with deeply held prejudgment opinions
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: of guilt, Massoth wrote in a Monday court filing made
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: public Tuesday. Latah County mob mentality will never produce a
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: jury pool that results in a cross-section of the community.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: The defense backed its preference for a venue change to
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: the Idaho Capitol for the trial with results from a
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: phone survey conducted by a hired trial consultant. They supported
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: it with analysis from a University of Nevada, Reno social psychologist,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: whom they may also call as an expert witness at
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: a court hearing next week over the venue change question
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: before Judge John Judge. And make no mistake, folks, the
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: whole situation with Brian Koberger is going to come down
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: to a battle of the experts, like it always does.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Whose experts are more believable and where does the evidence land?
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: That's what the jury is going to be looking for. Koberger, 29,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: is charged with killing the four U of I students
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: at an off-campus home in November of 2022. The victims
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: were seniors Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves, both 21, juniors
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Anna Kernodle and freshman Ethan Chapin, both 20. Koberger was
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: arrested on suspicion of the fatal stabbings in late December
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: 2022 at his parents' home in eastern Pennsylvania, where he
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: grew up. Koberger faces four counts of first-degree murder and
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: one count of felony burglary. Prosecutors plan to seek the
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: death penalty for Koberger if he is convicted. A court
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: hearing over possible challenges to the death penalty is tentatively
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: scheduled for early November, and there's going to be a
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of this in the lead-up to Brian Koberger's trial.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: A ton of proceedings, a ton of motions, and a
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: ton of decisions that have to be made by the court.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: trial in Moscow a complete pain for the community. Prosecutors
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: last week submitted their written opposition to the defense's request
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: to move the trial out of Moscow. Latah County Prosecutor
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Bill Thompson, who is leading the prosecution of Koberger, said
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the defense had failed to meet the burden under Idaho
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: law to show that a venue change was necessary or convenient.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Even if the court were to be persuaded that a
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: fair and impartial jury could not be impaneled in Latah County,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: the court could draw upon a jury pool from a
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: neighboring county, Thompson wrote. He suggested selecting a jury from
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: nearby Nez Perce County and driving them in for Koberger's trial.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: And look, I think that this is where we're going
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: to end up. And I've said that from the jump.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I think that a jury is going to get pulled
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: in from a different county. And that's the way Judge
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: is going to split the baby, right? give each side
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a victory, and keep it moving.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Moscow Mayor Art Betke told the Idaho statesman in an
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: interview earlier this year that he doesn't see the point
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: of taking Koberger's trial elsewhere in Idaho. My personal opinion
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: is there's no need to move the trial anyplace else,
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: because everybody in the state knows about the broad strokes
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: of what went on, he said, so that alone is
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: not justifiable reason to move the trial to a different locale,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: and that's my position as well. If this was something
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: that nobody knew about, and it wasn't something that was
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: highly publicized outside of Moscow, you might have a leg
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: to stand on. But in the situation that we have here,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I honestly don't see how you can make this a
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: valid argument and think it's going to stick, because I
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: just don't think it's going to work for Brian Kohlberger.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Although holding the trial in Moscow would come with the
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: return of major effects on residents, Betke said, the city
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: would be better prepared this time around for the arrival
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: of media and others who may travel to attend in person.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: After so much heartache and adverse impacts following the students' deaths,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: perhaps some local benefit could come from keeping Koberger's trial
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: in town, he said. Well, there's no doubt that there's
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: going to be a benefit for restaurants, for hotels, for,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: you know, people going out and spending money in the
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: town in general. There's going to be a lot of
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: that coming along with this trial. And that's because there's
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: so many people who are interested. There's going to be
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of people descending on Moscow once this all
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: starts taking place. And these people are going to have
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: to eat, right? They have to sleep somewhere. They have
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: to spend money on deodorant or whatever. And where are
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: they going to do that? Well, they're going to do
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: it in Moscow. It's a complete pain for the community,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: but there is an economic benefit to be realized if
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: the trial were still here, Betge said. And considering this
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: town has already been racked financially when we're talking about
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: what happened here with the murders. I would think that
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: a little financial injection would be a good thing. But
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: is it worth it, right? If you're a resident of Moscow,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: is the juice worth the squeeze? And we might say
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: from wherever we're at that, yeah, of course it is.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: But if you live there and it's something you have
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: to deal with once it starts, I don't know if
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: your opinion would be the same, honestly. I know I
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want to live in a small-ass town that was
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: taken over by the media. That sounds terrible, honestly. But
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: there's no doubt that if this trial is going to
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: take place, and it is, it should take place in Moscow.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: And for me, it has nothing to do with financial reasons.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: It has to do with, this is where the crime
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: was committed. These people, as far as the people who
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: live in Moscow, they're the victims. They should be the
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: ones who pass judgment on Brian Kohlberger, and they should
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: be the ones to decide if he's innocent or guilty.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: The defense argues for Ada County trial. Prosecutors also argued
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: last week that the interest of justice for keeping the
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: trial in Moscow should consider the families of the four
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: victims who live nearby and may seek to attend the trial.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Judge set a trial date of June 2025. And for me,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: this is the most important. The people who were affected,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: they shouldn't have to change their lives or schedules to
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: go to this trial. This trial should be where it
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: should be, and that's in Moscow. And the survey that
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's team... did and the results that came back
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: from it, that's not enough to knock me off my
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: perch and think that this should be moved to a
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: different county. The parents of Kaylee Gonsalves, who lives about
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: 30 minutes north of Coeur d'Alene in Rathdrum, have been
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: the most vocal of the victim's families during the pre-trial
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: phase of the case. Earlier this summer, the Gonsalves family
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: attorney issued a statement on their behalf that requested that
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: the trial stay in Latah County. The defense responded in
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: their filing Monday that a prosecutor's proposal to keep the
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: trial in Moscow but bring in a jury prospects from
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the county directly south still would be insufficient for achieving
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: an impartial group of people to serve as jurors with
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: their client's life possibly on the line. Ada County, with
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: its much greater population, grants Kohlberger the best chance at
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: a fair trial, they wrote. Expanding the jury pool, Danez Percy,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: is not a remedy, the court filing read. They have
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: been exposed to 36% of the total media coverage and
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: are more than 10 times likely to encounter coverage as
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: compared to residents of Ada County. The media coverage in print, online,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: as well as on television and radio is often inaccurate
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: and inflammatory, the defense wrote, without providing a specific example.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: The sheer amount of coverage in the closely watched case
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: is disqualifying of Moscow hosting the trial, they wrote. I
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: don't believe any of that. And remember, it was Brian
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Koberger who wanted the gag order. So if you want
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to set the record straight and you want to make
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: sure that the real information is getting out there and
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: you don't have anything to hide, what's up with the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: gag order, homie? Don't come here and start crying that
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: the media is reporting things that aren't true when it
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: was you and your team that pushed for this gag order.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: You can't have it both ways. I know that if
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: it was me, and I was innocent, I wouldn't want
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: a gag order. I'd want people talking about it. I'd
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: want it everywhere, all over the media, and I'd want
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: my people out there talking about how innocent I was.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: We don't see that here, do we? The media coverage
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: inundating Latah County does not tell citizens that no evidence
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: has been presented at this time, that there are no
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: facts on the record at this time, that Brian Koberger
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: is innocent, Masoff argued in the filing. Publicity regarding Mr.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: Koberger has been ongoing since December 30th, 2022. It rises
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and falls, but does not wane. Judge will hear oral
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: arguments about a possible venue change on August 29th at
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: the Leyta County Courthouse in Moscow. Well, folks, things are
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: moving at least, right? As opposed to being stuck in neutral,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: at least we're moving towards the end date here. But
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: do I think that Brian Koberger is going to be
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: victorious when it comes to the venue change? I do not.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: And I think if anything, we're going to see a
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: jury get bussed in from a different county. But either way,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: we'll keep our finger on the pulse. And when we
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: have some more information to share, we'll make sure to
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: get it added to the catalog. All of the information
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome back to the program.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to take a look at
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's response to the motion to keep the proceedings
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: in Latah County. So, let's just dive right in. Case
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: number CR29-22-2805. Reply to state's objection to defendant's motion for
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: change of venue. State of Idaho plaintiff vs. Brian C. Koberger,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the defendant, comes now. Brian C. Koberger, by and through
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: as attorneys of record, hereby submits this reply to the
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: state's objection to his motion for change of venue. The
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: pressure to convict Brian Koberger is so severe, that Latah
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: County survey respondents said that if he wasn't convicted, they'd
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: burn the courthouse down, outrage would be a mild description,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: they would probably find him and kill him. There would
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: likely be a riot and he wouldn't last long outside
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: because someone would do the good old boy justice. Enraged
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: strong opinions, firing of officers, riots, parents would take care
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: of him. The mob mentality within the community is the
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: exact reason that statutory grounds prior to selecting the jury
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: exists to move the venue. Given these responses from potential
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: jurors in Moscow and the state's acknowledgement that a remedy
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: is needed for a jury to be selected, the state
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: recognizes the obvious. An enormous venue problem exists. The state
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: brings forth no experts to counter Mr. Koberger's, who are
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: all clear venue must be changed in this case. The
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: state does, however, acknowledge that Brian Koberger has a constitutional
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: right to a fair trial with an impartial jury. Mr.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Koberger's motion to change venue is supported with a memorandum,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: expert affidavits, declarations, and exhibits that preview the testimonial evidence
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: the court will hear on August 29, 2024. A rebuttal
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: declaration of Dr. Dahir is submitted. with this reply. On
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: June 28, 2024, the Idaho Supreme Court pointed out that
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: a change of venue is not an unreasonably high hurdle
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: for a defendant to clear, but it does require proof
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: of prejudice or a showing of a reasonable likelihood of prejudice.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: The court is also concerned with the accuracy of the
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: pretrial publicity the extent to which the articles are inflammatory, inaccurate,
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: or beyond the scope of admissible evidence, the number of articles,
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: and whether the jurors were so incessantly exposed to such
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: articles that they had subtly become conditioned to accept a
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: particular version of the facts at trial. 1. The amount
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: of media coverage in Latah County is the highest in
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: the state and does not wane. There are more than 1,300
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: specific media stories covering Latah County. These stories are in print, digitally,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: and on radio and television. Media coverage continues and the
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: coverage is often inaccurate and inflammatory. The coverage conditions the
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: potential veneer panel to think of Mr. Kohlberger as guilty
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: and that various bits of information are factual and support
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: his guilt. The media coverage inundating Latah County does not
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: tell citizens that no evidence has been presented at this time.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: There are no facts on the record at this time
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: that Brian Kohlberger is innocent. that only a jury decides
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: what the facts are and whether the facts show beyond
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt that a person is guilty. Publicity regarding Mr.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Koberger has been ongoing since December 30th, 2022. It rises
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: and falls, but does not wane. The media measured and
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: presented by TruScope and Exhibit C of the Memorandum in
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: Support of Change of Venue focused on traceable media. That
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: means that a media in a particular location was measured.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: As is pointed out by the state in footnote 1,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: found on page 2, of its objection, publicity regarding Mr.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Koberger generating from YouTube, Facebook, TikTok, podcasts, streaming services like
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Hulu and Netflix were not included in TrueScope's report. Those
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: highly inflammatory and prejudicial and inaccurate media forms have reached
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Idaho citizens, but measuring them specific to location is not possible.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Haddon directs the court to consider media coverage in the
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: current venue, and logically venues considered as alternates. TrueScope cannot
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: measure the location of who reads Facebook, especially private groups,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: nor can it determine the location of who follows certain podcasts.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: These limitations do not change the data. Latah County, making
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: up only 2.75% of Idaho's population, has received 36% of
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: the media coverage. This is the highest ratio in the
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: entire state. Ada County, with the largest population in the state,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: has significantly less coverage per person. 2. Unrefuted survey data
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: justifies a change of venue. The state's claims about the
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: survey are wrong. Dr. Edelman designed the survey questions and how,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: depending on the participant's answer, the order of questions would flow.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: The survey report lays out the questions and responses for
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: all four counties and demonstrates that the survey was conducted
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: exactly the same way in each county surveyed. The only
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: difference is the number of participants. The survey report shows
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: the impact of the media coverage. The more media items
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a potential juror knew, the higher the prejudgment for guilt.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Latah County participants knew more media items than the other counties.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: The state criticized the content of the survey, complaining that
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: not enough of the surveyed items were false. Inadmissible or
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: false statements are the information that this court must consider.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: The state further criticized the survey, asking the court to
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: disregard it entirely, alleging the survey did not include record
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: of citizens in Latah County who did not want to
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: participate in the survey. That assertion is incorrect. The last
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: page of the survey report provides a table depicting the
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: total amount of numbers dialed and what happened. In support
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: of its argument, the state cites the court to a
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: study done by Pew Research Center, However, only a partial
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: statement from the study was included. Dr. Veronica DeHeer has
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: reviewed the survey done in this case, as well as
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: the objection filed by the state. She opines that any
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: non-response rate does not create a bias or invalidate the survey. Dr.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: DeHeer's declaration. The survey conducted in Mr. Koberger's case is
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: unrefuted and reliable. 3. The state's proposed remedies, expanding to
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Nez Perce County, vetting, or sequestering the jury are not
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: valid remedies reported by the experts. Expanding the jury pool
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: to Nez Perce County is not a remedy because the
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: residents of Lewiston and Nez Perce are in the same
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: designated market area as Latah County. They have been exposed
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: to the same excessive media coverage, have proximity, and share
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: the same pressure to convict that exists in Latah County.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Even the two counties combined do not reach even a
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: third of the size of the available jury pool in
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Ada County. The residents of Nez Perce County have been
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: exposed to 36% of the total media coverage and are
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: more than 10 times likely to encounter coverage as compared
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: to residents of Ada County. Vetting, as proposed by these,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: state does not work. For decades, the court has recognized
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: that simply because a jury of 12 can be selected
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: does not mean that the jury is impartial. The requirement
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: of the law is not satisfied by the mere impaneling
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: of 12 men against whom no legal complaint can be made.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: The defendant is entitled to be tried in a county
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: where a fair proportion of the people qualified for jury
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: service may be used from which a jury may be
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: secured to try his case fairly and impartially, and influenced
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: by a preponderant sentiment that he should be flung to
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: the lions. This is why attempts to mitigate juror bias
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: are best done where there has been less emotional investment
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: and less publicity exposure regarding the case. Dr. L. Alele,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Defense Exhibit E, page 12, answers to the jury surveys
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: in Ada County show less emotional connection and total contravention
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: of Latah County. When asked how the community would react
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: to a not guilty verdict, surveyors answered, they would go
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: on with life as always. I think they would take
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: it well. I don't know if there would be super
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: strong feelings. That's what the jury is for, to decide
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: based on the evidence. If a jury finds him not guilty,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: then he wasn't guilty, because they hear the evidence at
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: the trial. I think they would accept it. Rather than
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: produce an expert who refutes the studies and opinions of Dr. L.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Alele and Dr. Veronica DeHeer, the state points to cases
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: that have not analyzed such research. Judge Boyce and State v.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Daybell explains well how the case, law dating back 50 years,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: doesn't address the concerns of today. For example, one can
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: only imagine what the justices who decided Irvin vs. Dowd
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: 50 years ago would have thought about the concern today,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: when every potential jury has instant access to limitless media,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: literally at their fingertips, on a handheld device. Sequestering of
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: the jurors for three months is unnecessary and untenable. Determination
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: of sequestering the jury is not timely as no motion
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: for such is pending before the court, nor does the
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: state produce details regarding costs to support the validity of
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: its assertion that sequestering jurors from Ada County in Latah
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: County is more cost effective than moving the trial to
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Ada County. Idaho Criminal Rule 21A and Idaho Code Section
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: 19-1801 were implemented for a reason. This case is that
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: very reason. 4. Precedent in Idaho supports a change of venue.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: Three capital cases in Idaho have recently had a change
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: of venue. State v. Lori Vallow, State v. Chad Daybell,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: State v. Brian Dripps. All cases stem from southeastern Idaho.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: The courts in these cases all granted a change of
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: venue with a motion supported by evidence of extensive media coverage.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: None of these cases presented extensive expert surveys, and none
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: of these cases presented experts specializing in the science behind
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: juror decision-making. Of the three cases, two went to trial.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: As the state points out, there were lines of spectators
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: outside the courthouse in Ada County. Jurors in both cases
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: provided in-depth media interviews post-trial and expressed that the Ada
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: County court staff and marshals provided great infrastructure that made
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: a big difference in their ability to withstand the significant commitment.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: This infrastructure includes room for jurors to spread out during
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: lunch breaks into jury assembly room, many bathrooms to take
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: short breaks, make them efficient, travel to and from the
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: courthouse with security, ability to avoid the press and spectators
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: by being bused underneath the courthouse, and experience of the
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: courtroom deputies to provide security. Such accommodations are not possible
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: in Moscow. The facilities do not exist to accommodate a
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: jury of 18 for three months in a case where
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: the public and press will be lined up outside of
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: the exterior of the building. The precedent of courts changing
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: venue in Idaho and the experience of Ada County having
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: handled high-profile cases should be followed and used in this case.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: Conclusion Mr. Kohlberger provided the court with extensive and unrefuted evidence.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: The evidence includes proof of excessive media coverage in Latah
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: County that is both prejudicial and false, along with declarations
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: of experts explaining why remedies other than a change of
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: venue are not enough. The evidence will further develop at
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: the change of venue hearing. The traumatized town of Moscow
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: is understandably filled with deeply held prejudgment opinions of guilt.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: The surrounding areas of Nez Perce County and Lewiston are
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: not situated differently. The issue of venue reaches finality with
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: a change to Ada County because the Latah County mob
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: mentality will never produce a venue that results in a
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: cross-section of the community. This document was signed by Elisa
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Massoth and it was dated August 19th of 2024. All
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: of the information that goes with this episode can be
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: found in the description box.