Latest / The M&M Experience / M and M Extra May 26th 2026 - The Troubling Rise of Political Violence

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M and M Extra May 26th 2026 - The Troubling Rise of Political Violence · The M&M Experience

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to a meeting of the minds crafted from decades
0:05
Speaker 1: of talk show experience, an extension of the magic they've
0:08
Speaker 1: created together on radio in the phenomenon called M M
0:13
Speaker 1: Hot Topics in the News and Wisdom from Life. It's
0:17
Speaker 1: Mark Davis and Mike Gallagher. This is emin M Extra.
0:23
Speaker 2: I think I can safely vouch for my partner in
0:25
Speaker 2: crime here that we are enjoying the heck out of
0:28
Speaker 2: M and M Extra, and we welcome you back into
0:30
Speaker 2: yet another episode the day after Memorial Day. I hope
0:33
Speaker 2: you got time to spend with friends, family, Remember what's
0:37
Speaker 2: great for our country? Did you have anything spectacular that
0:40
Speaker 2: you and Lisa and the kids did on Memorial Day?
0:42
Speaker 2: Mister Davis, Well, it is all.
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Speaker 3: It's funny because it's a time to celebrate the beginning
0:47
Speaker 3: of summer. It is a time to celebrate a day off,
0:50
Speaker 3: celebrate my family and friends, et cetera. There's life and
0:52
Speaker 3: hot dogs and baseball and stuff in the backyard. But
0:55
Speaker 3: also the meaning of the holiday is surrounded by and
0:59
Speaker 3: this is all kind of become a talk show topic
1:01
Speaker 3: at times. I don't know if it ever has for you.
1:04
Speaker 3: Do you wish somebody a happy Memorial Day. I mean
1:06
Speaker 3: not really. I had a veteran tell me came from
1:10
Speaker 3: a long line of people who had given their lives
1:12
Speaker 3: in battle, but said that no veteran would really mind
1:15
Speaker 3: a happy Memorial Day, really, because we should have joy
1:19
Speaker 3: that we have this country that we have only because
1:23
Speaker 3: we are the land of the free, because of the brave.
1:26
Speaker 3: I tend to hope that people have a significant and
1:28
Speaker 3: meaningful and wonderful Memorial Day with many, many things of joy,
1:31
Speaker 3: all wrapped around the necessary absorption of the sacrifice that
1:36
Speaker 3: so many have laid down so that we can be
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Speaker 3: free and do stuff like this.
1:39
Speaker 2: One of the many blessings that both of us have
1:41
Speaker 2: been able to achieve is the ability to travel. And
1:46
Speaker 2: I will tell you that going to Normandy was one
1:49
Speaker 2: of the most life changing, one of the most significant
1:52
Speaker 2: and monumental visits I've ever been able to kind of do. Gosh,
1:57
Speaker 2: there's nothing like it when you think about what are
2:00
Speaker 2: what our boys were up against and how they just
2:04
Speaker 2: stormed that beach and they were getting mowed down. The
2:07
Speaker 2: odds were insurmountable. And to see that entire that that
2:12
Speaker 2: French community, you know, and to recognize the heroic sacrifices,
2:18
Speaker 2: and look, these sacrifices are underway now because you know
2:22
Speaker 2: the strait of Hormuz, Iran nuclear weapons. We've got men
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Speaker 2: and women like it or not. We don't want to
2:29
Speaker 2: ever put it this way, probably, but put themselves in
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Speaker 2: harm's way because we are in We are at war
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Speaker 2: right now.
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Speaker 3: And when you talk about the forties, I mean my
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Speaker 3: parents were born in nineteen thirty one and thirty four.
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Speaker 2: What about yours? My dad would have been I don't
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Speaker 2: I always forget the years because they both died when
2:50
Speaker 2: I was young, so I don't know.
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Speaker 3: They were pretty older.
2:53
Speaker 2: They were older parents, they were beginning, but they both
2:54
Speaker 2: served in world They met in World War Two. My
2:56
Speaker 2: dad was in the Navy and my mom was a wave.
3:00
Speaker 2: She was she was incredible. Yeah, yeah, they were.
3:04
Speaker 3: Because you're a couple of years younger than me, and
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Speaker 3: my parents were in school for World War Two.
3:09
Speaker 2: They were both World War Two vets.
3:12
Speaker 3: It was a time. What must it have been a
3:15
Speaker 3: weird question? I know, we get all kinds of stuff
3:17
Speaker 3: I want to get to here, but what must it
3:19
Speaker 3: have felt like to go for years and live in
3:22
Speaker 3: a country that was supportive of a war effort? You
3:24
Speaker 3: and I are both children of Vietnam. I mean we
3:27
Speaker 3: had you know, it took us ten minutes to kick
3:29
Speaker 3: sit On out of Kuwait, so that was lovely. We
3:30
Speaker 3: supported that one storm and Norman Schwartz Gough and all that,
3:33
Speaker 3: but the notion of a year's long, even war on
3:37
Speaker 3: terror nine to eleven President Bush, I will always respect
3:42
Speaker 3: the decision he made to take us to war in
3:45
Speaker 3: a part of the world that wanted to kill us. Ultimately,
3:48
Speaker 3: by every measure, it just didn't work out ideally. But
3:52
Speaker 3: World War two must have been something. It really must
3:55
Speaker 3: have been something to feel as if unity is ever possible,
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Speaker 3: well kind of unified country at a time of war.
4:01
Speaker 2: And I was gonna I was going to point to
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Speaker 2: post nine to eleven. You know, as somebody who spent
4:05
Speaker 2: a lot of years living in New York City, there
4:08
Speaker 2: was something that was so eerie about the weeks and
4:11
Speaker 2: months after September eleventh, two thousand and one, as you
4:15
Speaker 2: and I have talked about. I was in the Empire
4:16
Speaker 2: State Building that morning, and you know, we all experienced
4:19
Speaker 2: it together collectively as a country. America's Mayor Rudy Giuliani
4:22
Speaker 2: George W. Bush on the bull with the bullhorn, and
4:25
Speaker 2: I hear you, and those who took these buildings down
4:27
Speaker 2: are going to hear us as well. It was so
4:30
Speaker 2: wild how horn honking is just the cacophony of New
4:35
Speaker 2: York City, you know. And now you honk at somebody
4:38
Speaker 2: in Grapevine, you might get your your brain's blown out,
4:41
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, you just better be careful when
4:43
Speaker 2: you're gonna lay on the horn. But in New York,
4:45
Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's an affectionate greeting. It is
4:48
Speaker 2: a lot language, right right, Yeah, I'm here, you're there.
4:51
Speaker 2: I'm gonna let you have it. But no, I tell you, Mark,
4:55
Speaker 2: no horns were honking for the weeks and weeks after
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Speaker 2: nine to eleven. There were no fights and arguments on
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Speaker 2: the subway like I experienced so often. It was different
5:05
Speaker 2: that unity we felt. Gosh, I missed that. I missed
5:08
Speaker 2: that sense of unity and in this together it was
5:13
Speaker 2: us versus them, the good guys versus the bad guys.
5:16
Speaker 2: And that all feels upended now, Mark, it all feels gone.
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Speaker 3: Can I program the podcast five months in advance or
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Speaker 3: four whatever? For nine to eleven. Twenty six is the
5:28
Speaker 3: twenty fifth anniversary of nine to eleven. It will be
5:30
Speaker 3: a Friday. I'm guessing there'll be stuff in the news,
5:32
Speaker 3: and we'll do stuff in the news. Let us devote
5:35
Speaker 3: this very special space by which is defined by our
5:38
Speaker 3: ability to kind of do whatever we want for however
5:40
Speaker 3: long we want. And therein is its value, its charm,
5:43
Speaker 3: its joy I would love because, let's say it, we
5:46
Speaker 3: have yours is the most close to the bone experience
5:50
Speaker 3: that an American can have in New York. Mine is
5:54
Speaker 3: far away in a way that only a few people
5:57
Speaker 3: have because I wasn't even in the country. It was
6:00
Speaker 3: so odd, and getting back was weird. Let us do
6:03
Speaker 3: a nine to eleven twenty fifth, you know, through your
6:05
Speaker 3: eyes and through mine on that day. I think, I
6:08
Speaker 3: think that'll be time well spent.
6:09
Speaker 2: Well, Look, if I was half the man I used
6:12
Speaker 2: to be, I talk you into going to New York
6:14
Speaker 2: and you and I would do the podcast from New
6:16
Speaker 2: York City that day. Now, it might be pretty special
6:19
Speaker 2: because we have a big infrastructure in New York, We've
6:21
Speaker 2: got the studios, and we've got the ability to do it.
6:25
Speaker 2: Because you're right, I forgot. I didn't even think about that.
6:27
Speaker 2: It's the twenty fifth Ani.
6:29
Speaker 3: Verse twenty big adversaries or I noticed that, and that's crazy.
6:33
Speaker 2: It hit me.
6:34
Speaker 3: There are people so how old would you that there
6:36
Speaker 3: are people who are well, there are people who were
6:38
Speaker 3: thirty who scarcely.
6:39
Speaker 2: Remember it barely.
6:41
Speaker 3: What do you remember when you're five?
6:42
Speaker 2: You know, no kidding, Well, I remember it like it
6:45
Speaker 2: was yesterday, because we made it out of Manhattan. We
6:48
Speaker 2: got out to Long Island and had Eric with me
6:50
Speaker 2: Urk Hanson's pushing the buttons as we speak for this thing,
6:54
Speaker 2: and we made it out to my home on Long
6:56
Speaker 2: Island and we did my show for days and days
6:59
Speaker 2: from from the house because we couldn't get into the city.
7:02
Speaker 2: They closed off all the bridges and tunnels. We were
7:05
Speaker 2: one of the last cars out. In fact, Eric and
7:08
Speaker 2: Ron Mitchell, who's now a top executive at Fox News.
7:10
Speaker 2: He was my producer at the time, and we got
7:13
Speaker 2: through the Queen's Midtown Tunnel and we look back and
7:15
Speaker 2: we watched them close the tunnel. We were one of
7:18
Speaker 2: the last cars out of Manhattan at the Queen's Midtown
7:21
Speaker 2: and then we got we pulled off to the BQ
7:23
Speaker 2: east side of the road. We looked up and one
7:24
Speaker 2: of the buildings went down we watched it with our
7:27
Speaker 2: own eyes. But instead of the horrors of that day,
7:30
Speaker 2: the joy of being a unified people, I missed that.
7:36
Speaker 2: I yearn for those days. I long for it. But
7:39
Speaker 2: yet here we are facing a party, a political party
7:43
Speaker 2: that largely condones and supports actual political violence against their enemies.
7:51
Speaker 2: And Mark I have he're the one of the smartest
7:53
Speaker 2: guys I know. I want to start this conversation if.
7:55
Speaker 3: We killed, I think, don't tell me to make it
7:57
Speaker 3: make sense like you are no, no, no, no, no, right,
8:00
Speaker 3: but you can't.
8:01
Speaker 2: But but can you help understand? Help us understand how
8:05
Speaker 2: we got here? How do we get to a place
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Speaker 2: where You've got an actual literal Nazi running for Senate
8:13
Speaker 2: in Maine, a guy that proudly wore the totein cop
8:15
Speaker 2: whatever it's called, you know, Graham Platner. You've got You've
8:19
Speaker 2: got cheers for the and and celebrations over the assassination
8:24
Speaker 2: of our friend and colleague Charlie Kirk. You've got people
8:27
Speaker 2: that are expressing disappointment that the three assassination attempts against
8:31
Speaker 2: Trump weren't successful. You're seeing all kinds of displays of
8:35
Speaker 2: the advocating of political violence by the Democrats, And this
8:40
Speaker 2: is one way, not both ways. Now know both SiZ
8:43
Speaker 2: ism help us understand how we got to this point, Mark,
8:47
Speaker 2: so as.
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Speaker 3: We do as a way to remind everybody from breaking
8:51
Speaker 3: news of the morning to large conceptual things like this.
8:53
Speaker 3: That's what happens every episode of Eminem Extra. So to
8:57
Speaker 3: answer your question how did we get here? There are
9:06
Speaker 3: two avenues of answering it. One is a kind of
9:09
Speaker 3: a gradual what kind of conveyor belt have we been
9:11
Speaker 3: on that got us here? And the other part of
9:13
Speaker 3: the answer is what is it about right now? Let
9:17
Speaker 3: me do the second one first and then we'll kind
9:19
Speaker 3: of cobble it together. One of the reasons I think
9:22
Speaker 3: the left has been so desperate and violent and just
9:27
Speaker 3: being mean and nasty, and he listened so that everybody
9:30
Speaker 3: can stop bugging us. Are there conservative jerks? Of course
9:33
Speaker 3: there are, will there be the occasional Republican who does
9:36
Speaker 3: something well, of course, of course, of course, But lately
9:39
Speaker 3: lately it is a leftist violence thing. I don't think
9:45
Speaker 3: this would be happening if Trump were not so doggoned,
9:48
Speaker 3: residantly effective. I don't think this would be happening if
9:52
Speaker 3: he had not succeeded in getting constitutional as Supreme Court justices,
9:57
Speaker 3: succeeded in fixing the border, succeeded, and bringing us environmental sanity,
10:02
Speaker 3: succeeded and bringing us gender sanity. The entire leftist house
10:07
Speaker 3: of cards is crumbling down. And it's not as though
10:11
Speaker 3: they have the ability to argue back. I mean, whether
10:13
Speaker 3: it was something like Vietnam or nuclear power, or the
10:18
Speaker 3: egal Rights Amendment for women, or slavery back in the
10:22
Speaker 3: day of the nineteenth century, you could there were arguments
10:25
Speaker 3: that happened, and obviously you could say there's a moral
10:28
Speaker 3: side to one, but there were arguments that happened. What
10:31
Speaker 3: what are democrats to argue, What is their point? Hey
10:34
Speaker 3: there are thirty seven genders. Hey we don't need borders.
10:38
Speaker 3: They they know that doesn't work. So in a fit
10:41
Speaker 3: of tantrum frustration, this is what emotionally comes out. I'll
10:47
Speaker 3: stop talking from it. Does at least that part make.
10:50
Speaker 2: Sense, It does make sense, But I but there's a
10:53
Speaker 2: line that's been crossed into the realm of advocating for
10:57
Speaker 2: murdering your opponents. It's one thing to have crazy ideas,
11:02
Speaker 2: ideologies that don't make a lot of sense, But until now,
11:06
Speaker 2: it's been kind of limited to well, that's a crazy idea.
11:09
Speaker 2: We don't go for that. Crossing the line into actual
11:13
Speaker 2: political violence, murder, killing, silencing your opponents is uncharted waters
11:18
Speaker 2: for us. My theory is, I call it the great desensitization.
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Speaker 2: We are totally desensitized to any of us in this
11:27
Speaker 2: as humans, and maybe we're guilty of this too. I've
11:31
Speaker 2: been thinking a lot about like a political figure I despise,
11:35
Speaker 2: and that's easy for me. In fact, I'm going to
11:37
Speaker 2: ask you'll be ready for this. I'm going to ask
11:39
Speaker 2: you for the one political figure that you despise the
11:41
Speaker 2: most for me. For me, it's Nancy Pelosi. I abhor her.
11:47
Speaker 2: I loathe her. I'll never forgive her for tearing up
11:51
Speaker 2: President Trump's State of the Union speech. It was one
11:53
Speaker 2: of the most classless. I give her all the credit
11:56
Speaker 2: for being a smooth political operator. She's effective, she knows
11:58
Speaker 2: what she's doing. But that is, to me, one of
12:01
Speaker 2: the most contemptible political figures on earth. Now, having said that,
12:06
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want one hair on her head harmed. I
12:10
Speaker 2: wouldn't want wish illness on her or her family. There
12:14
Speaker 2: were people who reveled when her husband was bashed with
12:17
Speaker 2: the hammer. That was that was bad, That was awful,
12:20
Speaker 2: That was terrible that people would do that. And I
12:23
Speaker 2: think about how casually our political opponents are happy when
12:28
Speaker 2: one of us is killed or sick or ill. I
12:32
Speaker 2: don't want anything to happen to Nancy Pelosi personally. They've
12:36
Speaker 2: crossed this line, and I think it's, Yeah, your argument
12:40
Speaker 2: is a good one, that a lot of it has
12:41
Speaker 2: to do with desperation and the times we're in and
12:44
Speaker 2: they're frantic, they don't know where to turn, they don't
12:46
Speaker 2: know what to do. But it's also none of us
12:48
Speaker 2: are real anymore. We're all characters in a movie. We're
12:53
Speaker 2: cartoon figures. Erica Kirk isn't really a widow or a wife.
12:57
Speaker 2: Erica Kirk is just some actor in a play, yeah,
13:01
Speaker 2: playing a part. And I think that we've lost people
13:03
Speaker 2: have lost their compassion, their humanity. And look, I'm going
13:07
Speaker 2: to be bold enough to say that the president that
13:10
Speaker 2: you and I both support wholeheartedly hasn't helped I haven't.
13:14
Speaker 2: I didn't like his comments about Rob Reiner after he
13:17
Speaker 2: was murdered. I didn't like Robert Muller. I didn't like
13:20
Speaker 2: Robert Muller, they're dead, you can't. But Trump is Trump,
13:25
Speaker 2: and that's who he is. Are our opponents, our critics
13:28
Speaker 2: would argue Mark that Trump is part of the problem.
13:31
Speaker 2: If he if he didn't do that kind of stuff,
13:33
Speaker 2: maybe it wouldn't be so bad.
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Speaker 3: Oh lord, you give me so much materialist So let
13:37
Speaker 3: me go in order, in reverse order. The Trump on
13:46
Speaker 3: the occasion of Rob Reiner, what what?
13:48
Speaker 1: What?
13:48
Speaker 2: What did he say? And I remember with Rob, with
13:50
Speaker 2: Robert Orry, I wasn't a fan, and I wasn't a fan.
13:53
Speaker 2: I wasn't a fan.
13:54
Speaker 3: And after a tragic murder like that, and with Robert
13:57
Speaker 3: Mullery literally said I'm glad he's dead so that he
14:00
Speaker 3: can't screw up other people's lives. That's terrible. Nobody can
14:04
Speaker 3: condone that. And yet I think it's one hundred miles
14:08
Speaker 3: different between that kind of juvenile.
14:10
Speaker 2: Reactive.
14:13
Speaker 3: New York bully boy meets adolescent of social media persona
14:18
Speaker 3: that is Trump. There's one hundred miles of difference between
14:20
Speaker 3: that and an entire party and entire media culture looking
14:24
Speaker 3: at us, you and me and the people and saying
14:26
Speaker 3: you people are hitler, you people are are evil. There's
14:30
Speaker 3: something enormously different about that. Well, not to address that,
14:36
Speaker 3: and then I'll give you my top one or two
14:37
Speaker 3: of people I love.
14:39
Speaker 2: Go sure, yeah, well, well I want to know. I
14:41
Speaker 2: want to hear that first, because I want to play
14:43
Speaker 2: filmar from a few weeks ago, when you're.
14:45
Speaker 3: Living listen, so here, so when you were given and
14:47
Speaker 3: this is really interesting. I don't disagree with you about
14:51
Speaker 3: the basis at all for your recoiling Nancy Pelosi, she
14:57
Speaker 3: wouldn't make my top ten. And again, what the list here?
15:00
Speaker 3: And let's qualify and quantify and stipulate that we're not
15:03
Speaker 3: talking about people we would wish harm to nobody, but
15:08
Speaker 3: just people who just really just ratchet you up to
15:11
Speaker 3: eleven under.
15:12
Speaker 2: Revulsion, fighting loath we find them. Yeah, politically the who's
15:16
Speaker 2: number one on your list?
15:18
Speaker 3: Then I'm gonna give you, Okay, just kind of a
15:21
Speaker 3: function of the it's kind of a function of the
15:22
Speaker 3: moment and of this last hiccup of history. The difference
15:26
Speaker 3: for Pelosi, what she did, that ripping up of the
15:30
Speaker 3: state of the Union is the most one of the
15:32
Speaker 3: most horrible acts ever for her though, And maybe I'm
15:36
Speaker 3: making the question way more complicated than it needed to be.
15:40
Speaker 2: Which I will do.
15:43
Speaker 3: I've always viewed her as kind of a grand dumb
15:46
Speaker 3: elder statesman, leftist of Queen Bee, and she just is
15:52
Speaker 3: who she is and that's kind of baked in and
15:54
Speaker 3: so that probably gives her a certain teflon to me
15:57
Speaker 3: feeling that way about her.
16:00
Speaker 2: The first person that occurred to.
16:01
Speaker 3: Me, and if you give me a day, I'll probably go,
16:03
Speaker 3: is is Tim Flipping Walls. What a detestable little troll
16:09
Speaker 3: this guy is? And and and and if there's just
16:13
Speaker 3: nothing redeeming in it for for Nancy Pelosi, I'm able
16:17
Speaker 3: to say, listen, she's a decades long servant of San Francisco.
16:21
Speaker 2: What are you gonna do?
16:23
Speaker 3: Uh? He he just absolutely makes my tee fitch. Well again,
16:27
Speaker 3: what I wish.
16:28
Speaker 2: Mark, it could make the you could make the argument
16:30
Speaker 2: Nancy Pelosi is at least effective at what she's been.
16:32
Speaker 2: He's a boop, he's a more what's he? What's he
16:35
Speaker 2: effective at the corruption scandal? Uh? Listen, this is this
16:41
Speaker 2: is such an important thing and coming up here and
16:43
Speaker 2: we're glad you're here. It's the M and M extra
16:46
Speaker 2: Mike and Mark on this day after Memorial Day. Let's
16:50
Speaker 2: go from a few weeks ago to a blue dog
16:52
Speaker 2: Democrat named Bill Maher. This guy not unlike John fetterman Mark.
16:58
Speaker 2: He often demonstrates in incredible wisdom. He's so prescient in
17:02
Speaker 2: terms of the things that the way he calls out
17:05
Speaker 2: his own party and where they're headed and where they're
17:07
Speaker 2: going to go. Here he is with Brett Stevens of
17:10
Speaker 2: all people from the New York Times. This is from
17:13
Speaker 2: weeks ago on his show Real Time with Bill Maher
17:16
Speaker 2: on HBO.
17:18
Speaker 4: Well, let's get the ugly news about the political violence
17:20
Speaker 4: out of the way first, because we have to talk
17:22
Speaker 4: about it. I'm just going to vomit my take on it,
17:25
Speaker 4: and then you can argue. I would just like to say,
17:28
Speaker 4: if you're one of these people, and there's many in
17:30
Speaker 4: this country who watched that and was disappointed the president
17:33
Speaker 4: wasn't killed, say they're laughing at that, you're not a
17:38
Speaker 4: good person or a smart person, but definitely not a
17:42
Speaker 4: good person. I was reading this in your paper injury
17:45
Speaker 4: with Governor Pritzer of Illinois and they asked him, Michael,
17:49
Speaker 4: what was the next president have to be? And he
17:51
Speaker 4: said good, decent and kind, which who can disagree with that?
17:55
Speaker 4: And certainly Trump has often not been good, decent or kind. Right,
18:00
Speaker 4: it's not a hitler.
18:00
Speaker 5: You can't you can't say that you are fighting for
18:05
Speaker 5: democracy or a believer in democracy and at the same
18:08
Speaker 5: time excuse political violence as a mechanism for political change.
18:13
Speaker 5: It's one or the other. And that's the essence of
18:16
Speaker 5: our system, that it gives us the opportunity to change
18:19
Speaker 5: things through the will of the people and not through
18:23
Speaker 5: the barrel of a gun. And people who don't get
18:26
Speaker 5: that don't understand the basis of the system they are
18:30
Speaker 5: supposedly championing.
18:32
Speaker 2: Now, mark two quick things. Two chilling aspects of that clip.
18:36
Speaker 2: Number one, even Bill Maher was shocked at his own
18:39
Speaker 2: audience for laughing at the failed assassination attempt on Trump.
18:44
Speaker 2: He couldn't believe it. And then number two, for an
18:47
Speaker 2: audience that's like a bunch of trained shields. And they
18:49
Speaker 2: always clap. It's like the view. They always clap at
18:51
Speaker 2: everything they like to hear. The audience is always nobody
18:55
Speaker 2: clapped for what Brett Stevens or Bill marge said. They
18:57
Speaker 2: didn't clap for that. No, that's that's that's where we are.
19:01
Speaker 2: But good golly, thank thank you Lord for the wisdom
19:04
Speaker 2: of a of a kind of a conservative traditional democrat
19:08
Speaker 2: like Bill Maher.
19:10
Speaker 3: Indeed so, And what you end up with in taking
19:13
Speaker 3: a look at something like this is that.
19:19
Speaker 2: I'm tempted to.
19:22
Speaker 3: Is everything social media's fault, probably, But I think that
19:26
Speaker 3: our patience has been worn thin, our grace has been evaporated,
19:31
Speaker 3: our goodwill has been sucked dry of so many good
19:37
Speaker 3: qualities have been rendered obsolete by the got to get
19:41
Speaker 3: our licks in, got to get our clicks, got to
19:44
Speaker 3: make an impact, And you'll always have more impact by
19:46
Speaker 3: being mean and by being corrosive. And so throw that
19:50
Speaker 3: in with the earlier lengthy die tribe I gave about,
19:54
Speaker 3: you know, sort of the path we took to get here.
19:56
Speaker 3: That it's I guess it's surprising that it took this
19:59
Speaker 3: lo long for us to get this.
20:01
Speaker 2: Poisonous Yeah, it took that's that's probably the surprise that
20:04
Speaker 2: it took us long. Uh And and you know it's
20:07
Speaker 2: funny you and I have embarked on this new venture here,
20:10
Speaker 2: this podcast and our YouTube channel and our our YouTube show.
20:13
Speaker 2: I am I am convinced that we'll never we want
20:16
Speaker 2: this to be successful. But the reason we won't have
20:19
Speaker 2: the mega success of the of the of the Candice Owens,
20:23
Speaker 2: or the Megan Kelly's or the Tucker Carlson. Look at
20:26
Speaker 2: the look at the sandbox they play in that that corrosiveness,
20:31
Speaker 2: that meanness those you know, it's one thing we have
20:34
Speaker 2: sharp elbows. I don't think we pull punches. But on
20:36
Speaker 2: the other hand, we're not jerks about it. And and
20:40
Speaker 2: it does speak to Look at Nick Fuentes, this guy's
20:44
Speaker 2: got an enormous following. It's like, the more over the
20:48
Speaker 2: top you are, the more success you'll have. And I suspect,
20:54
Speaker 2: and I want to I want you to take a
20:55
Speaker 2: couple of minutes on this. I suspect that smart broadcast
21:00
Speaker 2: like Tucker Carlson and Megan Kelly. Think about Tucker and Meghan,
21:04
Speaker 2: They've been in the business for many years. Megan I
21:08
Speaker 2: was a guest with her many times on Fox News
21:10
Speaker 2: when back when I was a contributor there, she had
21:12
Speaker 2: her own show on Fox. The NBC hired her away.
21:16
Speaker 2: She was a lawyer originally, as I understand it, but
21:18
Speaker 2: she was a longtime broadcaster. Tucker's same way, CNN Crossfire there.
21:23
Speaker 2: These are like us, they're veteran broadcasters, not unlike us.
21:29
Speaker 2: They want to be successful. We want ratings, we want revenue,
21:32
Speaker 2: and that's that's how we're judged in our world, our space.
21:36
Speaker 2: We get rewarded with good ratings and good revenue, and
21:40
Speaker 2: that's what we're paid to do. We're supposed to draw
21:42
Speaker 2: people to our shows, not chase people away. I have
21:46
Speaker 2: a hunch that some of these people, maybe not all
21:49
Speaker 2: of them, maybe not even most of them, but at
21:52
Speaker 2: least some of them understand that formula, and they're going
21:56
Speaker 2: to be as outrageous as humanly possible, because the more
22:00
Speaker 2: outrageous they are, the more money they're going to make.
22:02
Speaker 2: The more clicks, the more downloads per episode, the more
22:05
Speaker 2: views they get, the more they can line their pockets.
22:09
Speaker 2: And for them Mark, it's nothing more than a smart
22:13
Speaker 2: business strategy.
22:15
Speaker 3: I think that makes perfect sense, and it is monumentally depressing.
22:19
Speaker 3: It is the twenty twenty sixth version of something that
22:23
Speaker 3: was once told to me in the nineties, when i'd
22:27
Speaker 3: been doing this for about a decade. Somebody's a consultant
22:30
Speaker 3: of some repute, told me, you know, there's something that's
22:34
Speaker 3: holding you back from having a nationally syndicated show. Now
22:38
Speaker 3: you have gone on to prove that you can have
22:40
Speaker 3: a nationally syndicated show while being even handed and kind
22:43
Speaker 3: and showing grace to people. What I was told in
22:46
Speaker 3: the mid nineties was that if I were to be
22:49
Speaker 3: more balls to the wall, more red meat, more rah rah,
22:54
Speaker 3: that it would it would improve my chances.
22:56
Speaker 2: And I thought, you know, you told that by somebody.
22:59
Speaker 3: Oh and and and you know, and it's it's not
23:04
Speaker 3: like I considered it because I Number one, I got
23:06
Speaker 3: to sleep at night. I've got to I can't be
23:09
Speaker 3: an act. I mean, there's performance in everything that we do.
23:12
Speaker 3: We are performing right now, sure, but everything you're getting
23:15
Speaker 3: on our respective radio shows and here in the Delicious
23:17
Speaker 3: podcast world is is us, and it's I'm never gonna
23:22
Speaker 3: change it. I'm never gonna ramp it up or down.
23:25
Speaker 3: I'm not going to accelerate or or slow down on
23:29
Speaker 3: anything in order for clicks or appeal or whatever. And
23:35
Speaker 3: so iint enough about us. I think we made that clear.
23:37
Speaker 3: But what does that make you think? Does that mean
23:40
Speaker 3: with tuck her In Megan five years ago, they would
23:44
Speaker 3: have been two of three years ago, they would have
23:47
Speaker 3: been two of my absolute favorite folks to just kind
23:49
Speaker 3: of check in and see what they're saying about the
23:51
Speaker 3: parade of Daily News. I still tuck her. I'm pretty
23:56
Speaker 3: well done with the Megan Show. If she's talking Adam Carolla,
24:00
Speaker 3: I'm in it's still pretty good. Which was the real
24:03
Speaker 3: person a? Did they either change? Or was something real
24:07
Speaker 3: and something phony? Pre podcast? Post podcast? You and I
24:11
Speaker 3: sort of spoke off the air before we even started
24:14
Speaker 3: this one day and said, which was the real Tucker?
24:18
Speaker 3: Is this? Did Tucker change? Is this the real Tucker?
24:21
Speaker 3: And the more guardrailed better behave Tucker? Was that?
24:26
Speaker 1: For me?
24:27
Speaker 2: I can't read mine, so I don't know. Well. You
24:29
Speaker 2: and I both have had a connection and a brush
24:33
Speaker 2: with greatness. You actually had the privilege of guest hosting
24:38
Speaker 2: for Rush Limbaugh. I had the privilege of working down
24:42
Speaker 2: the hall from Rush when I did mornings at WABC,
24:44
Speaker 2: so we both knew him to some extent. We had
24:48
Speaker 2: personal interactions with him, and I will remember to my
24:51
Speaker 2: dying day, and it has shaped my career for all
24:54
Speaker 2: these many years. Rush gave me some unsolicited advice one
24:59
Speaker 2: day I was out in the it was so funny
25:01
Speaker 2: WABC Radio. It was a two pen plaza right over
25:05
Speaker 2: Madison Square Garden, and it was such a for me
25:10
Speaker 2: A kid from Ohio to get a job at what
25:12
Speaker 2: was then the biggest talk station in America, WABC was
25:15
Speaker 2: just a dream come true. And I was working down
25:17
Speaker 2: the hall from Rush, and every day I watched Rush
25:19
Speaker 2: in his entourage and how yes he had an entourage
25:22
Speaker 2: at Carson and he had bodyguards and everything. He was
25:25
Speaker 2: a big deal, you know, way even way back then.
25:28
Speaker 2: But Rush took pity on me because, strangely, even though
25:33
Speaker 2: I was the new big morning show host at WABC,
25:36
Speaker 2: they stuck me in a instead of giving me an office,
25:38
Speaker 2: they gave me a cubicle in the hall with about
25:41
Speaker 2: twenty other cubicles in the hall. And Rush came by
25:45
Speaker 2: and he laughed and he said, you know, they did
25:46
Speaker 2: the same thing to me. He goes Fred Weinhaus, who
25:49
Speaker 2: was then the general manager. He hated me. It was
25:51
Speaker 2: a cram down. They didn't want to take the Rush
25:53
Speaker 2: Limbaugh show. And he stuck me in a cubby. It's
25:55
Speaker 2: like a test, Mike. He goes, they're testing you. They
25:57
Speaker 2: want to know if we're going to be a diva
25:59
Speaker 2: or not. He goes, good for you, you're sitting in the
26:01
Speaker 2: cubby in the hallway. And I eventually did graduate into
26:03
Speaker 2: a real office, which was which was fine with me,
26:06
Speaker 2: but Rush said, don't worry. I want to give you
26:08
Speaker 2: some advice. He said, as you're embarking on this WABC
26:11
Speaker 2: radio career and you're gonna have a lot of slings
26:14
Speaker 2: and arrows coming your arrows coming your way. The only
26:17
Speaker 2: bit of advice I'd give you be yourself. Be authentic.
26:22
Speaker 2: You can't be who you're not. The audience will see
26:25
Speaker 2: right through it if you try to be something you're not.
26:27
Speaker 2: But here's the thing is, well, I don't know because
26:31
Speaker 2: I don't know because now because maybe if any of
26:34
Speaker 2: these guys are not who they are, the audience doesn't
26:37
Speaker 2: seem to be catching on. They're buying it that I
26:42
Speaker 2: keep telling you, Mark, pay attention to Tucker and Candace
26:47
Speaker 2: and even Fuentes and Megan. They've got huge followings and
26:52
Speaker 2: those followings are impactful. We've got a mid term election
26:55
Speaker 2: a few months away, so we've got to pay such
26:59
Speaker 2: close attention, and we're paying attention to the day after
27:02
Speaker 2: Memorial Day. This is the M and M Extra Mike
27:06
Speaker 2: and Mark with you here on this final days of May.
27:10
Speaker 2: Can I, by the way, ask you can you share
27:13
Speaker 2: with us how that came about that you became a
27:15
Speaker 2: guest host for the Rush Limboss Show, because you talk
27:18
Speaker 2: about getting to sit in the throne and getting to
27:21
Speaker 2: pull the levers of Oz. How did that come about?
27:25
Speaker 3: So I come back to my native Texas to do
27:27
Speaker 3: talk shows in nineteen ninety four and at WBAP down
27:31
Speaker 3: the dial from where I currently work in DFW, I
27:34
Speaker 3: did the morning, I did a late mid morning show,
27:37
Speaker 3: and then Rush was on in the afternoon. In the
27:38
Speaker 3: early afternoon. And so when you're on a station that
27:41
Speaker 3: carries Rush just instantly rising tide lifts all the boats.
27:45
Speaker 3: It was an enormous ratings benefit to me, revenue benefit
27:48
Speaker 3: to the station.
27:49
Speaker 2: It was all great.
27:50
Speaker 3: And Rush always viewed the affiliates as quite the family,
27:53
Speaker 3: and he would sometimes do, especially in the larger markets,
27:57
Speaker 3: a visit to come and see see how the family
27:59
Speaker 3: was doing. So it was at an event in Grand Prairie,
28:02
Speaker 3: placed just pretty equidistant between Dallas and Fort Worth, at
28:06
Speaker 3: a big at a big he was sort of doing.
28:09
Speaker 3: It was we were past the You remember the Rush
28:11
Speaker 3: to Excellence tours that.
28:13
Speaker 2: He did at the beginning.
28:13
Speaker 3: You he would fill arenas were past that. He wasn't
28:16
Speaker 3: doing nearly as many of those didn't really need to come,
28:19
Speaker 3: you know, two thousand and six, two thousand and seven.
28:22
Speaker 3: But at an event in two thousand and seven, we
28:26
Speaker 3: had something planned where Rush would come, and we filled
28:29
Speaker 3: an arena for him, and I was watching him, and
28:33
Speaker 3: he had a crowd of twelve thousand in the palm
28:35
Speaker 3: of his hand, of course, and I'm standing backstage with
28:39
Speaker 3: him with his entourage, because yes he does, as we've established,
28:42
Speaker 3: have an entourage. And this was I think Craig Kitchen
28:45
Speaker 3: and some of the other folks at Premiere, the syndicating
28:47
Speaker 3: company that offered the Rush Limbo Show, And just as
28:50
Speaker 3: almost an afterthought, a throwoff comment, halfway through so many turns,
28:55
Speaker 3: he says, yeah, Mark, you want to fill in for
28:58
Speaker 3: him someday? Who said that? I paw, I don't remember.
29:03
Speaker 3: How could you forget that? No, I know, because it
29:05
Speaker 3: was a pretty important moment. Maybe I just totally blanked.
29:09
Speaker 3: All I remember is my answer, which was, you give
29:12
Speaker 3: me the date and I will be there. So on
29:14
Speaker 3: I think a spring day in April of two thousand
29:18
Speaker 3: and eight, I filled in for Rush for the first time,
29:21
Speaker 3: and then did it a number.
29:22
Speaker 2: Of York or two Thus in Dallas.
29:24
Speaker 3: Okay, it was almost always right in my existing studio.
29:27
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
29:27
Speaker 3: So I did it from two thousand and eight to
29:29
Speaker 3: twenty twelve. And just like this experience is for you
29:33
Speaker 3: where you finish your radio show and instantly you've got
29:35
Speaker 3: to jump into podcast mode, for me, my show ended
29:38
Speaker 3: in instantly the Limbus Show. So I went from taking
29:41
Speaker 3: calls from Dallas and Fort Worth and grape Vine and Burlison,
29:44
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I'm taking calls from Pittsburgh and
29:46
Speaker 3: getting in Los Angeles and Miami. And the first day
29:52
Speaker 3: was crazy in terms of where your mind is so
29:55
Speaker 3: full of. But then after doing it for about five
29:57
Speaker 3: ten minutes, I realized, as I'm sure you did when
30:00
Speaker 3: did your first national show. I do this for a living.
30:02
Speaker 3: This is what I do. The only thing different is
30:05
Speaker 3: a lot more people listening, So just focus and do it.
30:09
Speaker 3: So which is what I did. There was one time,
30:12
Speaker 3: I guess it was two times total.
30:14
Speaker 2: That I did.
30:15
Speaker 3: Indeed, get to go to the the the e IB,
30:19
Speaker 3: the Golden e IB studios there and do it from
30:22
Speaker 3: the Golden e IB microphone in there with the Great
30:25
Speaker 3: James Golden boast Nerdly Kit, the late Great Kit Carson,
30:28
Speaker 3: his chief of staff, his entire and all those and
30:33
Speaker 3: Mike Mamone, Mike Mahone who ran the board and to
30:36
Speaker 3: be there. They were so kind to me and so
30:39
Speaker 3: good to me. And when Rush passed, I can't believe
30:42
Speaker 3: that it's been about five years since then. I just
30:45
Speaker 3: think that you talk about a family. His entire world
30:47
Speaker 3: was a family as well, and it was a joy
30:49
Speaker 3: and honor to be to be a part of that.
30:51
Speaker 3: First we talked about slice of time.
30:53
Speaker 2: We talk about where we cut our teeth, and I
30:55
Speaker 2: cut my teeth and talk radio in Greenville, South Carolina,
30:58
Speaker 2: and I we brought and we were one of the
31:00
Speaker 2: first Rush Limbaugh affiliates in the country. And I was
31:04
Speaker 2: the program director and I was the local host there
31:06
Speaker 2: and we brought Rush to town for one of his
31:09
Speaker 2: Rush to Excellence tours. Is when are we talking about?
31:12
Speaker 2: Roughly ninety hour early nineteen so he's only.
31:18
Speaker 3: Three years in, maybe three years into being a big deal,
31:20
Speaker 3: but already such a big deal.
31:22
Speaker 2: But that but such a big deal that he was
31:24
Speaker 2: able to now was the Greenville Memorial Auditorium. It was
31:26
Speaker 2: at Madison Square Garden, but still it is a pretty
31:28
Speaker 2: big deal. And and we brought him to town and
31:32
Speaker 2: Russ Castle, who is another local legendary host, and he
31:36
Speaker 2: was like Russ Castle was like the Mark Davis of Greenville,
31:40
Speaker 2: South Carolina and Rush Russ. Russ has since passed away
31:43
Speaker 2: as well. He died a few years ago of heart failure.
31:47
Speaker 2: But Russ and I were the two local yocals who
31:50
Speaker 2: hung out with Rush Limbaugh, and we introduced him on stage.
31:53
Speaker 2: I think I sang the Star Spangled Banner, which I
31:56
Speaker 2: want to do. And after the after Rush's show, he
32:01
Speaker 2: invited Russ and me back to his hotel suite and
32:04
Speaker 2: we were at the hiat he was at the High
32:06
Speaker 2: Regency in downtown Greenville and Mark. The three of us
32:09
Speaker 2: talk politics and Rush shared wisdom till about three in
32:13
Speaker 2: the morning. It was one of the most glorious nights
32:16
Speaker 2: I'll ever ever cherish and treasure and what a memory
32:20
Speaker 2: and what a time a part of my life. And
32:24
Speaker 2: I'm still I was, you know, I was twenty gosh
32:27
Speaker 2: ninety when I went thirty something years old. I was
32:30
Speaker 2: a young guy. And how what a heady night that
32:34
Speaker 2: was to listen to Rush Limbaugh opine about radio and
32:38
Speaker 2: about the country and about the President gosh, what a
32:41
Speaker 2: what a night? What a night? On them?
32:43
Speaker 3: We remember him. There's not a day that goes by
32:45
Speaker 3: that I don't think what would he be saying? How
32:47
Speaker 3: would he be processing events these days? You know what,
32:51
Speaker 3: let's with one big segment remaining, because I know we
32:55
Speaker 3: want to talk a little bit about the weird meat
32:58
Speaker 3: grinder that Erica.
32:59
Speaker 2: Kirk is being kind of cool and this is kind
33:01
Speaker 2: of cool that we can. We can stop a little
33:02
Speaker 2: early today because I've got a doctor's appointment and normally
33:06
Speaker 2: I can't do that, so I'm right, So now we
33:10
Speaker 2: can go a little early, we can go a little.
33:11
Speaker 3: Long, so untethered to the clock means we love about
33:15
Speaker 3: two hours. We could go through that. But for the
33:17
Speaker 3: remaining couple of minutes in this little segment here, if
33:21
Speaker 3: somebody were starting, I'm actually stopping you right now to
33:23
Speaker 3: ask this. I get this from every once in a while.
33:26
Speaker 3: What would it's midterm year trumps second term? We what
33:31
Speaker 3: would rush is over? What do you It's impossible to know.
33:34
Speaker 3: We can't read minds, but we do know him, no
33:36
Speaker 3: of him. We listened to a show for years. What
33:38
Speaker 3: do you think his take would be on the passing
33:41
Speaker 3: parade right now.
33:42
Speaker 2: Well, I think he'd be all in with Iran. I
33:44
Speaker 2: think he would understand the need to keep to prevent
33:48
Speaker 2: Iron from ever obtaining a nuclear weapon. I think he'd
33:53
Speaker 2: be so on board with Donald Trump. Uh and completely
33:57
Speaker 2: on board. I mean, you look at the last year
33:59
Speaker 2: or two of Trump of Rush's life. He was, he
34:03
Speaker 2: was the Emperor of Maga. And in fact, I think
34:06
Speaker 2: things would be different right now. I believe that losing
34:09
Speaker 2: Rush and losing Charlie Kirk, quite frankly, has had a
34:13
Speaker 2: very detrimental impact on everybody's collective thinking.
34:18
Speaker 1: Uh.
34:18
Speaker 2: And I'm and I'm sad about that. I'm I miss
34:21
Speaker 2: we miss Rush, we miss Charlie. And and Charlie's loss
34:25
Speaker 2: in a way is even more profound than Limbaughs was,
34:29
Speaker 2: because Rush was across the board popular, but Charlie in
34:33
Speaker 2: particular had a had a captivating way with young people
34:37
Speaker 2: and was winning hearts and minds in such a powerful way.
34:41
Speaker 2: I still can't believe that Charlie's gone. I still get
34:45
Speaker 2: shook at the thought of how he how he was killed,
34:48
Speaker 2: what they've put Erica Kirk through, what they're putting Turning
34:51
Speaker 2: Point through, and it's just it's it's sad, it's really
34:54
Speaker 2: it's really depressing. But those are two giants of our
34:58
Speaker 2: movement who are missed every single day. Mark. But look,
35:02
Speaker 2: you know, we may not be giants, but we're you know,
35:04
Speaker 2: we may be the tallest little people on the hill.
35:06
Speaker 2: And here we are with the M and M podcast
35:08
Speaker 2: every day and we're getting to do our thing and
35:12
Speaker 2: even break a little early when I got to go
35:13
Speaker 2: to a doctor's appointment. So that's not bad.
35:15
Speaker 3: So to hit the home stretch in the following way,
35:18
Speaker 3: just to tie a bow around the whole Rush thing.
35:19
Speaker 3: If people, if there are people watching listening thinking, well,
35:22
Speaker 3: I don't know what Rush would have thought about Trump's
35:25
Speaker 3: style or the things he says every once in a
35:27
Speaker 3: while that is so crazier, or the all caps social
35:30
Speaker 3: media posts. Rush would have been the first person to
35:32
Speaker 3: tell you it doesn't matter. None of that matters. That
35:36
Speaker 3: those are all side shows. Those are all matters of taste,
35:38
Speaker 3: you can have or not have, like or not like.
35:41
Speaker 3: What ultimately matters is results, results, results, and that is
35:46
Speaker 3: what would make Rush a Trump fan, and it's what
35:49
Speaker 3: makes us fans of Rush and of Trump here on
35:52
Speaker 3: the eminem.
35:54
Speaker 2: Extra perfectly.
35:57
Speaker 3: In our remaining minutes here we get let's uh, who
36:00
Speaker 3: got a couple of minutes ago?
36:02
Speaker 2: Right?
36:03
Speaker 3: So, uh, Erica, what do you think is driving the
36:11
Speaker 3: train of the people who have been because it's not.
36:14
Speaker 3: It's not all liberals, it's not all activists. What is
36:19
Speaker 3: it that is rubbing people the wrong way that they're
36:22
Speaker 3: making there there are fans of Charlie who can't stand
36:26
Speaker 3: her for some reason.
36:28
Speaker 2: No, I've got I've got some dear friends who can't
36:31
Speaker 2: stand her, and it it blows my mind. I will
36:33
Speaker 2: tell you Mark, it is this and I and if
36:36
Speaker 2: you don't mind, I would love to dive in maybe
36:38
Speaker 2: tomorrow or or another day where we spend a considerable
36:42
Speaker 2: You know, I've been wanting to talk with you about
36:44
Speaker 2: this at length because there's something about the Erica Kirk
36:47
Speaker 2: dynamic that I don't understand. And I've got theories. I
36:50
Speaker 2: know you've got theories. But let's let's let's let's shelve
36:54
Speaker 2: this for another day. Let's let's table this and and
36:56
Speaker 2: and spend for for.
36:58
Speaker 3: For two reasons. One, it deserves more time into you
37:00
Speaker 3: have a doctor's appointment.
37:02
Speaker 2: I do. I've got this thing on my forehead that
37:04
Speaker 2: I need to check out, and the dermatologist is hard
37:06
Speaker 2: to get it's not a tuma. I mean, I'm going
37:09
Speaker 2: I'm looking into the light. I'm going into the light.
37:12
Speaker 2: I'm Carol, Harry, Harry hypochondriac. So i'll give you an
37:16
Speaker 2: update after the doctor's appointment tomorrow to see everybody loves
37:20
Speaker 2: old people. God let them see you tomorrow