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What I've Learnt - Janice Breen Burns · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Janice Breen Burns is a highly respected fashion journalist, editor, and features writer of more than 30 years' experience in Metro Daily newspapers and more recently digital media.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Voxfrock.com.au is her blog zine, loosely based on the variety of content and style of newspaper, Fashion Pages, before the global contraction of Inverted Commas Old Media.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Renowned for her industry knowledge and witty realistic insights into the role of fashion in everyday life, she's a frequent contributor to workshops, seminars, industry panels, radio and television reports relevant to fashion and its culture.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: She's listed annually from the inaugural issue of Who's Who of Australian Women, was admitted to the Stonington Fashion Hall of Fame in 2011 and regularly judges fashion industry wine and student fashion competitions.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: She's also judged the Victoria Racing Club's Fashions on the Field during the Melbourne Cup and the Melbourne Racing Club's Fashion Competition.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: In 2013, she was appointed to the board of the Melbourne Fashion Festival, a not-for-profit event that attracts more than 350,000 fans every year.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: As fashion has been smashed with stores closed, dots blocked with deliveries and fashion under the microscope, more than ever, with issues of fast fashion wastage and ethical production becoming focused and central to the future of fashion, Janice gives us a snapshot of what's to come and how fashion is evolving.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, Janice, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, Janice, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy that you could join us.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm incredibly privileged to be here, Deborah.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for asking me.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it seems to me that you have got one of the best lenses on this extraordinary time.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how was it to be live and actually up close at the Melbourne Fashion Festival?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed a little sparse from what I saw, some footage, uh, not so much at the Regent, but at the Botanical Gardens.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I could see everyone was quite distanced, but still you could see the models coming forward.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me, is the energy returning?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if so, slowly but surely, what's your take on that?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh oh, look, it's it's really hard to say.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is just, it's you know, we've just ticked over the brink into real life shows again.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: At the festival uh in March, we did have um a few physical shows, which were just extraordinary, and a mix of online stuff as well.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the first time Melbourne Fashion Week is the first time, I think, that we've got a complete program that's uh physical runways and pop-ups and workshops and you know the hundred odd events that they've got organized for this week.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And look, I I think everyone was a little bit discombobulated to be out in the sunshine, and um the fro was actually there was nobody in second row, there was only a fro, so quite and no, it was just I think it was quite joyful.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember the last fashion festival that I went to, it was just on the on the brink of the first lockdown, and we actually had to cut off uh the last couple of days of the festival in 2020, and just before that cutoff, we've been, as the fashion pack does, they fling uh themselves at each other and hug and kiss and all this sort of stuff, and then for the last two, you know, 18 months or so, we've been sort of um knocking elbows and and sort of kissing the air about a meter apart from one another if we ever do encounter each other.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so so yesterday there was a bit more of the flinging, which I thought was, you know, I it really feels like normality when the the fashion pack can uh throw themselves at one another.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: So social distancing was a bit um tossed out the window for the first time in about 18 months.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So from that point of view, I thought it was quite joyful and lovely, and I just really enjoyed it.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the the show itself, in a daytime show, always doesn't always have the polish that a nighttime show does, but I think that is its uh strength.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: It feels a bit warmer, a bit more summery, a bit more casual, even though it was very, very obviously beautifully done.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: It just felt like more of a salon sort of situation, particularly as everybody was, you know, in the proximity because everybody was on the front row.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: There was only one front row.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I noticed that.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in fact, I suppose what you're saying is it gives it an authenticity.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, with the with the weather, and you know, the it was in a gorgeous jungly little pocket of the botanical gardens, and just from that point of view, it was quite unusual.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't your usual uh kind of runway show where you've got uh models stomping down up and down a very straight path in and out from the exits.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I actually saw that, and it's interesting too because I mean some of the highlights, I was looking at some of the beautiful labels.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: What was for you a highlight at that botanical garden show?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I look, I I love them all.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: One of the funny things about this fashion week, and it's a very funny thing, very unusual thing, because it was delayed so much, some of the stuff is has already been racked in stores for quite a while.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you've had the opportunity to sort of rummage through a few racks and a few stores and boutiques and what have you, and really get to know some of the stuff.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I I always absolutely adore uh Akira Isagawa.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: There was a beautiful little set of silk or gansas that he's uh done recently, which has been around for a while, which is just you know, just seminal as far as his his work ethic and his his aesthetic goes.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And look, every other brand that showed, there was Aj Age Arj A-J-E.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I never remember what the correct pronunciation of that is, but I love that brand.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, quite a few others.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: I wish I could think, I wish I had a list here, but uh Yeah, no, I saw there was some beautiful, and it was really diverse, and it was just so wonderful to see it all, and as you say, set in those beautiful gardens and with the greenery.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so it has, and I know, I mean, there are lots of people in the fashion industry that I know have really struggled, and there's a lot of optimism, there's a lot of hope, and this is the beginning, as you say.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Fashion week is the beginning of us going, well, it's there's a comeback of sorts.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Fashion's had a pummeling and the landscape has changed with online shopping.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, profit margins are being impacted.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of people in the fashion industry who are saying, as you mentioned, all the seasons are getting out of whack.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's a whole range of issues impacting the designers.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: What do you see as the impact?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you see that uh, I suppose, improving now that they're out and they can people can go to shops?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: But there is a definite change in the landscape.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh the answer to the question is twofold, depending on which part of the industry you're really talking about.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're talking about the big end, I think that business is going to adapt slightly, and but really particularly fast fashion brands, it's going to be business as usual as long as the cut the market keeps responding as they have been responding with uh in more enthusiasm than I'd like to see for that end of the market.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: But uh my end of the market, my favorite end of the market, of course, is it's personified in Melbourne, mostly Melbourne, because Melbourne is a city of small brands, uh, expressive brands, original brands.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a city of um cutting-edge ideas and emerging brands that, you know, they seed the idea, the genesis of a lot of fashion ideas happens in Melbourne.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the amazing things about Melbourne fashion, of course, is it's that word that cropped up so often, it was the word of the of the lockdown era of the pandemic, was pivot.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of very small bespoke artisan studio expressive brands in Melbourne, they pivoted.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they whether they went to masks or there's a wonderful brand in in the city called uh Carabaker.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, she pivoted to kind of raps and and that sort of thing.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, other brands like like Lisa Barron, I know you've interviewed her before.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, she was wonderful.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Inspiring businesswoman and an inspiring character in local fashion.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: She pivoted to scarves and you know, they they pivoted to make the bread and butter money they needed to get through.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: But when you when you're talking about what's going to happen after this, all the conversations that I've had with um designers have been about time to reflect, time to be still, time to look at their creative practice, time to become more creative.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're also talking about those small and medium brands, you're not talking about seasons and you're not talking about uh global trends that they have to follow because otherwise they're they would suffer the slings and arrows of their markets because they know their markets so well.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're personally acquainted with their markets, and uh and so look, I think look, there was a lot of suffering, a lot of suffering, but there Melbourne's fashion community is a community of incredibly creative people, and creative people adapt and they pivot and they go on and they get better.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that uh a lot of the brands that I've spoken to so far are doing just that, they're going to come back stronger than ever.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's a really good overview, and it reflects what Lisa said, Lisa Barron, very much.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And also I interviewed David Brisken, and he was also, I mean, he was quite optimistic about, but I think what you're saying is that because uh we're such a culture vulture hub here in Melbourne, that people have used it as a way to regenerate, recalibrate, and hopefully, as you say, they've got very loyal, very loyal customers who wanted them to do okay and to support them.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Lisa even referred to the fact that she had people that would come and buy things when they didn't really need them, just to support her.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is such a beautiful indication and really supports the notion that you're talking about, where the community aspect is what hopefully maintains the resilience.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the other factor that I think is really interesting, and I saw that you've done some, you know, did a very interesting article.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was in the age, diversity.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's obviously paramount, both culturally and in terms of ensuring we represent all body types as well.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's playing out on the runways and in ad campaigns to is it here to stay?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a you don't see it as do you think there is a transformation at the core?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh God, I hope it's not just a fad.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't that be just so tragic?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I I call it the tanker is turning.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Fashion is uh changing.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've been writing, uh I've been a fashion editor for 35 years, and I've been actually writing fashion for you know about 40 years, and this time now is just I this you can feel it in in fashion's waters.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is incredibly profound cultural change is happening right now, and that's uh the that's with the markets, that's with the supply chains, that's with um it the way fashion fits as a jigsaw piece into life and the planet and all our lives, it's just completely changed, and that's just a natural follow-on that it would be totally inclusive of everybody who is uh recognized in society now as functioning human beings.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a functioning human being, then you should be included in fashion.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and you know, thank God for that is all I can say.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's interesting it took so long, though, don't you think?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, really, as you say, in 40 years, of this is sort of something that's quite, I suppose, evolutionary.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like it hasn't, it's only happened in the last probably few years, and it's taking great momentum now.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I find it extraordinary that it's taken so long.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I'm just trying to think back to when I was first the first job I I had was as a women's, we used to call them women's editors in those days, and uh you so I used to do the human and colour stories as well as fashion stories.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I became a bit of a, I don't know why, but uh be a bit of a sounding board for people's experience of fashion.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh women would, with such incredibly sad stories, write about their relationship with fashion if they didn't fit, you know, fit in any of the boxes that fashion was actually appealing to at that time.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And and I remember one particularly woman, it was it was actually a written letter from memory, that's how long ago it was.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: She actually wrote me a letter and um described how she was just brokenhearted because her daughter, she'd taken her daughter to a surf shop to get some, you know, some beach shorts and a and a bathing suit and some things.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And her daughter was in the corner of the changing room crying because she couldn't fit into it.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I still it still chokes me up now.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: But that was pretty typical of the experience of a lot of girls and women for so many years, and you were so right.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Why did it go on for so long?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've always tried to address it one way or another in my fashion writing and try and be inclusive and kind, but um, fashion for many, many decades was not inclusive and it was not kind.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so true.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so true what you say.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that was because, and you just referred to the articles that I wrote on this subject.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've written several over the years, but the idea of absolute inclusivity is the diminishing of an ideal.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: You have to remove idealism from the whole fashion equation if you're going to have absolute inclusivity.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what's happened because the ideal was exclusive and excluded people, excluded many people, and it and it served a lot of people very well.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: It served the industry very well because we were forced constantly to constantly try and think that we could improve our improve our look, we could get closer and closer and closer to the ideal if we bought this cream, you know, this skincare cream or this makeup or this frock or this outfit for this season.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: But that's all gone now.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And now fashion is not.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that it's going.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's in the process of being gone.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was about to say, yeah, I'm not sure if it's gone.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's gone.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting you say that because, you know, that is an interesting reflection.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I totally agree that inclusivity is paramount at many levels, both in terms of age, size, cultural diversity, etc.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think, you know, with the social media avalanche, I have daughters and um I'm surrounded by a lot of women who, I mean, that description of that girl in the trying to put the shorts on in the store and finding herself curled up in the corner of the dressing room, is really potent.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we still have a long way to go in terms of there is an avalanche, as I mentioned, of social media still driving a lot of that idealism.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really distorted and it's very dangerous, and it's monolithic in terms of the reach.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: It can get to you so far, like every day, bam, bam, bam, these young girls.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as fashion does evolve, as you referred to, we really need to make sure that we have these discussions to make sure that a size, whatever size you are, or however you look, is completely embraced and that these social media agendas are not all pervasive.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately they still are.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And they're quite, they're quite diabolical with disorders.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Very profound effects, very long-lasting, obviously.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's going to be, you know, generations of women in maybe 20 years or so are going to keep some psychiatrists very busy.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not doing that already.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that Deborah, the the idea of the tanker turning has to encompass social media as well.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And when we're talking and uh when we're talking to young women and girls, particularly, because they are so vulnerable to those messages, you also have to educate them that there are there are ways of dealing with that before the damage is done.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the the ways of dealing with it is to deal with your algorithms.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you dismiss the social media accounts and the you dismiss the media that makes you feel cringy or uncomfortable or not great about yourself.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you gravitate to the ones, and there's many, many more every day.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: You gravitate to the ones who are out and proud about who they are, whatever size they are, whatever age they are, whatever ability they are, whatever gender orientation, whatever identity that they have, if they're out and proud, you know, chalk up your social media engagement with those and delete all the others because your algorithms, as long as you keep chasing those uh ideal, you know, those beauty ideals, if if you feel bad, you're going to feel worse if you keep them in your orbit.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Eliminate them.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, a lot of the girls are doing that now.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And what's wonderful is that fashion for a cross-section of the community that was never, as you say, had a voice, a fashion voice, or was not accurately reflected, there's so much more of it now.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes it a lot easier for the choices to be made.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: I interviewed Jess King, who's a wonderful curve model, is what she refers to herself as.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: And she went from anorexic and extremely unwell to owning her journey and her size.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And if she's a global model who's in more demand now as a plus, no, not plus size, curve size, curve model, than she was when she was starving herself.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there is, I think that we do, I think fashion has a responsibility and the fashion industry has a responsibility.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And by those agents choosing women like that, by those brands featuring diversity, it really does assist the journey, I think a lot.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: I I think also the language that we use around those kinds of models.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like to me, she's she's not a curve model.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: She's not a, yeah, she calls herself a curve model.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I suppose to differentiate in this sort of transition period to absolute inclusivity.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um to me, uh modeling should be more like uh, oh gosh, I don't know, like like casting for a film or something like that.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it should not be based on whether you're curvy or slim or whatever.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's the ideal ones might be, you know, described as, I don't know, classic models or something like that, whereas everybody else would be a normal model.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: You obviously I think to be a model, you still have to have that kutzpar or something.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have that dazzle, that you do that sparkle, that x-factor.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Charisma, yeah.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: So not everybody can be a model, but it's not about pure classic beauty anymore.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know, which is wonderful because that comes in many forms anyway.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what you and I chatting about is is a very poignant reflection on the fashion industry has some responsibility to drive that change, and it it's stepping up, as you say, more than ever.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think that agenda's changing?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Who's changing it?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is it coming from the top or is it coming from the actual consumer?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I I think um I think we've already answered that question by social media.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's the number of very loud voices of particularly young people who are saying, no, bugger this, I'm not going to adhere to your standards.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's ridiculous to me.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's also got a got a lot to do with good parenting.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's mothers, fathers as well.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: But particularly, this social construct has impacted girls and women much more than it has boys, though I've noticed that it's it's Skipped over to boys as well, which really, really bothers me.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: But mothers have taken the responsibility of explaining the whole the whole process, the mechanics of fashion to more girls and more young women.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there are there are other initiatives like the Butterfly Foundation, for instance, uh school visits to groups of students to explain how how fashion perfects and imposes that ideal, that idealism on us all to sell products.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's I think fashion itself is doing it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, years uh probably about five or six years ago, I actually thought fashion needs an ideal.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: We have to have the aspirational level of fashion for fashion to function.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm a convert to inclusivity as far as the mechanics of fashion goes.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And but I'm a I'm a raging, passionate convert now.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: I thought for a long time that it needed that ideal.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: We needed to aspire to fashion, for fashion to continue to work for it, you know, for the tanker to keep keep ploughing through those waves and producing those seasons after seasons after seasons, and for the new ideas to be taken up and um you know disseminated around the world, uh around the fashion world and into our wardrobes.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I thought we needed that, but I don't think we do now because so many other things, so many other factors, the the idea of social media, uh, and I I bang on about social media, but it's not, it's not, it's not really the social media.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's obviously the people behind the social media, the loud voices that are saying no, we're not aspiring.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not aspiring, I'm not doing, I'm not doing, I'm not part of that mechanics.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not aspiring to your ideal.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I like the way I am.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Me, I am my own ideal.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And uh all kinds of other movements as well, like even climate change, just looking at fashion and and the the fact that it has been so incredibly damaging and destructive for so many decades.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: But fashion, so so all the all the horrible things about fashion are being dealt with at the moment.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm one of them.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think it is a it's a very exciting time.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: It is a bit of a revolution, and it's really quite um exciting to see that at many levels it's being tackled while still, as you say, enjoining the creativity and the the essence of fashion, which is to create.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to be able to be free to do that as well and not be too hindered by um too many constructs, but the ideal's changing is what you're saying.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's no longer what it was.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And tell me on that note, which I love this, your tell me about Fash Lab.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just give our listeners a little blurb on this.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Fash Lab is a community network established in Melbourne to share knowledge, advice, and news, and mentorship across Victoria's small-scale, fashion and related creative industries.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's free, and members are a mix of veteran and new creative business people.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: They share their priceless anecdotal knowledge and contacts face to face under an agreed code of trust.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really interested because you're at the helm of this.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me, I love this idea of FashLab.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I started it a couple of years ago.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: When I finished at the age, I was at I was at the age as fashion editor for about a thousand and fifty-two years and uh still freelancing and what have you.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things that one of the things that um occurred to me as soon as I left the age, or as soon as I left um nine media, was the how difficult it was for the small brands in Melbourne to broadcast, to elevate their messages, to elevate their collections, to even just because there so many of them are so small or medium, and uh there is this kind of privileging of the middle to luxury bandwidth of fashion where all the Sydney brands are.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is all the wonderful Australian brands like Zimmerman and Camilla O'Mark and and uh Ginger and Smart, and and there seems to be so many of them that are actually based in Sydney.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they do a fantastic job.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: But we're slightly, we might be slightly above that, but in the kind of the spooky kind of area of incredibly new cutting-edge, uh, risky ideas.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the small brands in Melbourne are very risky, risk takers, emergers.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is how Melbourne got the reputation of being the fashion capital of Australia because a lot of those ideas that are in fashion around the world they had their genesis among uh eMergers and expressive designers in Melbourne.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: So this was a culture that was recognised quite a few years ago when I was uh when I first started out in fashion, but it had sort of drained away and sort of petered out because there was this focus on that upper middle to luxury level of Australian brands, and and as I said, they would seem to be focused in Sydney.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: So basically that was the fundamental premise to get them together, really.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and to try and and to to basically, I suppose the community aspect once again is is pivotal here for you.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well we don't, we don't, uh we don't we don't have the we hadn't got the notice or the uh embrace of events like Australian Fashion Week and even Melbourne Fashion Festival tended to focus more on the you know that bandwidth of upper middle market and luxury Australian brands rather than the local uh the risk takers and the originators in Melbourne.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of like an alternative, as you said, yeah, a community.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're very much a community.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So to drag, one of the things I've I've learned in my life is drag the the young ones up by their, you know, grab their braces and drag them up and and load them up with everything you know as a veteran, everything you've learned, just load them up, load them up, load them up.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that way you can kind of you can compress the number of years that it takes to learn all that stuff by osmosis, whether it's about business or the fashion industry, or you know, just just you know, living as a creative uh fashion business person.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can compress, it might have taken me or someone else 40 years, but if you load up the young ones, then you can compress that down to about you know one year or two years or something like that.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I a big thing about Fash Lab is mentoring.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: A big thing about that is solving each other's problems, mentoring each other, mentoring young ones, uh, sharing the kind of information that you don't you, you know, if you go to a workshop or a seminar or something like that, it's so subtle and it's so intuitive, and it's so, you know, business is not all about rules and regulations and and you know.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, exactly.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's about sort of also engaging and being intuitive and trusting your intuition and learning all so that and and I think it's yeah, I think it's a great initiative.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: So well done to you.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just another thing I wanted to raise with you.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so much I could talk to you about because it's just this stratosphere in terms of how many elements of fashion are impacting all of us.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Australia is the second highest consumer of textiles per person in the world after the United States of America.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Each Australian consumes an average of 27 kilograms of new clothing per year and disposes an average 23 kilograms of clothing to landfill each year, or 93% of the textile waste we generate.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's interesting.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: What can be done?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I must mention that there are organizations like the one my sister started called Thread Together, which is trying to use and manage wasted together.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're trying to use and manage wasted product to dress those less fortunate.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a brilliant endeavor.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: But what is the future of, I suppose, the circular economy in fashion?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: It is a very serious issue.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's incredibly serious.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, 23 kilos a year, come on.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just and I suppose um, you know, harking back to Melbourne brands again, so many of them are so small, they already just naturally, by default, are sustainable practice, ethical supply chains.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: They they have very short supply chains, so they know exactly who's who's doing what as far as each garment goes.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a lot of um very ethical um fashion manufacturers, small fashion manufacturers in Melbourne.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: The oh, the consumption of fashion just went crazy for about three decades, and that was when uh, you know, the top shops and the Zahras and the HMs and you know, fashion became this incredibly prolific business that made billionaires out of a few people and killed and made paupers out of a lot of others.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: The only way to address that is by education, and that is happening already.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank God it's happening already.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: The idea of buying something because it's precious and beautiful, sometimes hand it doesn't have to be handmade, but in a small run.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: In a small run, limited edition or bespoke, yes, uh one-off.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that that kind of philosophy, I think that fashion, for instance, should be taught in schools, and responsible fashion consumption should definitely be taught in schools.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: The idea of actually going out and making yourself feel feel better by buying a$30 frock that you might then throw, you know, in spun ray on or something like that, that's you know, cost you know 10 cents to make and has resulted in um you know health issues for for one person on the supply chain and and uh poverty issues for somebody else on the supply chain.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's just you've got to be thinking about all of those steps, all of those uh steps along the way to that$30 frock, rather than just looking at this pretty little thing.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I say that deliberately.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know what you're referring to.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: This pretty little this pretty little thing on the on the rack, and thinking, isn't that gorgeous?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: That'll make me feel really good tonight if I wear it to a club or something.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I know exactly.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I know what that that little rush of adrenaline.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that little rush of adrenaline and how exciting that is.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Me too, me too.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, um, I think that we've also got to be self-reflexive and and realise that that rush, if it is that 30, if it's something that's you know, cost a piddling amount and you eventually you you feel cringy about it, and hopefully people will feel cringy, more more people will feel cringy about the supply chain that's brought that pretty little thing to the rack.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: The rush is very different to something that you've actually paid more for, perhaps even saved up for, perhaps has uh half a dozen aspects about it that you adore.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, it has a narrative in the fabric, it has a narrative in the craftsmanship, it has a narrative in the uh in the design itself, it has it has stories, it's just shot through, woven with stories.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: The rush you get for putting that on is going to be very different to the rush that you get for that$30 frock that you're literally going to, it's gonna be part of your 23 kilos for this year.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a very a wonderful description.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, somebody like a Megan Park, for example, who I adore and I think she's so talented.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've got some of her beautiful pieces, beaded, and they're not inexpensive, but I mean, I know that she obviously she closed the high street store, it was not tenable, this was moving through, and she's still running her boutique bespoke aspect online.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, the other thing is there's the logistics of actually trying to maintain production at that high-end, beautiful storytelling level, which is what resonates for people like me, or maybe for you, but is often unaffordable for the consumer, for the young ones who are targeted by the cheap, hardcore, pretty little thing vibe, and also challenging for the person producing it to maintain their margin.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's I think also going to be a struggle moving forward.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: How do they how do they navigate that, both of them?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh Megan Park is a fantastic example because uh I don't think she's producing clothes now.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: But she's got an archive of beautiful clothes.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: So her her production, a lot of her production was in India, and uh and she tracked back through her supply chain and looked after.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a great example of how you know ethical production doesn't Australian Maid is terrific and it's great to be local, but ethical production can also happen if the uh the creator is uh kind and careful and loving and uh caring enough to follow their supply chain right back to uh to ensure that uh their workers, their craftspeople have living wages, that their families are well, that everybody's looked after in their factory situation.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and I know that a lot of brands uh do that.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: They do that with producers in Indonesia, uh, Vietnam, India, China.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're very responsible offshore creators, you know, yes, designed in Australia and it's made in China or whatever.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's you know, it's part of the education process.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, track it back, don't just track it back to local production, but if it is beautiful, it can still have a narrative and high quality because somebody has bothered to uh to develop that caring factory environment in another country and and help the families involved in the craftsmanship in that country.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: I actually agree, and I think Megan is a very good example of that, but I suppose to the point of trying to maintain and sustain that level of production, totally honouring the supply chain, but also trying to sustain the business and make sure that that that functions.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think is the challenge moving forward.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: However, I agree with you, education, informing, and making sure consumers are educated and informed, as you say, through schools or through social media, is going to it is already changing the discussion.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's quite evident that people are resonating that.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: And let's just hope moving forward that that's what drives and underpins all of the fashion production so that in a decade we're not at 93% in terms of our footprint in that sort of circular economy.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a very interesting time.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: But the tanker is turning.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to on that note, thank you so much for your time because I love that image of the tanker turning.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we will maintain that image and hopefully it turns full circle.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the optimism and hope that the fashion industry is acting responsibly and starting to step up while still creating and driving that wonderful organic creativity that we all love wearing.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's already happening and it it's it has to happen.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: It has to change.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, we're we've we've got so many terrific brands in Australia, uh, particularly Melbourne, who are already doing it, already changing.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the market's changing too.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think everything's very responsible and and much more caring.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we're we're also looking after each other, like I know for some of the local brands that I shop at, I'm very conscious.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I have a relationship with them.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the person that runs the store that I go in and say, How are you going?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: What's like there's an intimacy.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love all that.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one thing also that that mega consumerism and dare I say, mega shopping centers, some of that sort of obliterates the intimacy that we all need.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: However, it's obviously driven enormous wealth and success for many brands.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know, I'm a bit of a high street shopper myself.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: I like it, I like a strip rather than give me a give me a little old-fashioned shopping strip anytime.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, look, I would love to have you on and love chatting to you, and you're you're a wealth of information.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I can see that uh you're doing some really great things.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Fash Love in particular is something that is a highlight.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: So well done to you.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's an it's it's a fashion's always been a joy, even after all this time, it still is.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's been great talking to you two.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: You've got such um, I think we're so on the same wavelength, aren't we?
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: We really are.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like you know, you and I could just like, I think we'll just have to do lunch.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: For an hour.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Another hour, and we could still be chatting away.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I've loved having you on the show, and um yeah, you you take care and you too.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: You too.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy dressing up.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: I do, I do all the time.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: See you later.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Love Depp.