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She Escaped A Nightmare... And Rediscovered Herself ✨ (Mariel's Story) · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone, welcome to Surviving Ish Podcast, where we're going to discuss small life glitches and the occasional real life moments.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so excited to have a friend with us today, Mariel, who you were a part, I want to say, season one of the I don't remember the exact season.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: I do know that it was in the winter and it was about the TTI, Troubled Teen Industry.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so of course I'll share the link.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's been uh a couple years now.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Several years, yeah.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe how much time has passed.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: But what I love about what I'm doing is I make connections with people.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And even if we go months or whatever without talking, we could just pick right up.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I just really, I really love that.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I think that your story is a powerful one.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm ready to get into surviving-ish.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna go first this time because here's why.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I was in a hurry, and I was like, you know what?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna go through no judgment, McDonald's drive-thru, and treat myself to the one Big Mac.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: I allow myself to have a mod.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so they have two drive-throughs, right?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or like two speakers, and so there's like a car at each one.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I just pick one and and get behind it, and then so they though they get done ordering, and I move up at the same time the other person, and so another car moves up, and they caught like two or three cars with this other speaker before even talking to me.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, so then I'm wondering, am I in the wrong line?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need to get out and go to another line?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And they start talking to me, and then like I'm frustrated, and so I'm also one of those people that I never want to piss off people that mess up my food, and so I'd ask for a particular condiment, and then I'm afraid to like look in the bag to see if they've got it, if they put it in the bag, because you know, but I'm like, the minute I don't, I'm gonna get home and it's not gonna be there, and everything's gonna be ruined.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I this was just a real life, like, what the hell is going on moment?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just wanted some sauce and someone would take me over.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: That kind of makes me think of how you would probably never want to be with my dad going through a drive-thru.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: He is the quintessential boomer.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: And when I say he's bad at technology, he gets so he's like me with ADHD, but worse.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And he gets so flustered, he's just like, oh, oh, well.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think he would just get so confused and then just start yelling at them.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and he's not like you, he it has no problem being rude to people that handle his food.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: He has no problem, he said some real wild things.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, and I think that comes with age, and I think it also comes with not having certain job experiences.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh when I became a server and bartender, most of my family hadn't served a bartender before, and I was like, we need to make sure y'all know how to tip.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm not with you to eat again, I have to either know that I like you enough to spot you a few extra dollars for the tip that you won't leave, or I'm not going with you, unless you're a good tipper.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And even working in you can always tell, like, when someone has done a certain type of job, like anytime that I go to a restaurant within minutes, they're like, You used to serve, didn't you?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Yeah, because I'm cleaning up after myself.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I have manners, you know.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've worked in, I've never been a waitress because I'm way too clumsy for that, but I've was a barista for a while, and yeah, it definitely is a humbling experience.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: I had a woman get upset with me before, and she threw a muffin at me because I didn't microwave it for long enough.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like 19 at the time, and I just started crying.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, yeah, yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I uh the stories, I think when they were gonna have a uh an episode where I'm gonna have like a bunch of like servers and bartenders, and we're all just sharing these nightmare stories because I truly think that in order to graduate high school, you have to be a server for at least a month.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I have another.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: So uh again, coffee shop.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't necessarily horror, but it was like there was this older woman that I later became like friends with.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And again, nine, I was 19.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And at this coffee shop, I hadn't really been a coffee drinker before, but we had to try all the drinks that we made when we were training just to get the taste for them.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I drank, I tried all the drinks, I was like hopped up on the caffeine, and some older woman, she's like, Hey, baby girl, this was in North Carolina.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, Hey, baby girl, do you want a tranquilizer?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Okay.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: So then, like, every time she would come in, she'd give me her clonapin.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Oh, okay.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Did you take it?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is hilarious.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Back when we were younger, we could do things like that, you know.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, didn't have to worry about fentanyl.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had a person that used to tip me in Adderall.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yeah.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, at the time, I think it was probably her child's Ritalin because she was like a stay-at-home mom kind of thing, like I want to have a burning before I have to go get the kids.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: So she was probably giving me her child's prescribed Ritalin as a tip.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: It got me through the next couple of shifts and made really so yeah, boy, I'll take it.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but now you can't do things like that.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: You never want to do that.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, that don't.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's scary.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Not worth it.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, so that's my ish today.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I did not enjoy my burger, but I did enjoy the McDonald's Coca-Cola is my favorite.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: The way it burns.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like the bubbles, yes.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So at least at least the coke went well for me.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, good.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at least you had something.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just let me clarify some of what we were just talking about.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Not that kind of coke.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: The soda.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: What is your ish this week?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like what's holding you together?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or um, well, yeah, very little is holding me together.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe my dog and the fact that it's nice out, and it's September, and I live in a very touristy place on the beach.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's holding me together, but my living situation has become a bit complicated as of several months ago.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: And now I am paying a mortgage for a house that I don't live in, and I am living with a friend, her nanny, and two children.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now, children were never in my equation.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I see one of the reasons for that is because they don't like to flush the toilet.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a big old hound dog that loved nothing more than to drink the pee that has been sitting in the toilet all night, and I'm like, oh, oh, it's so gross.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh, oh, it's gross.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: So are the are they kid like teenage years?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 12, 10.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Are they boys?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: One boy, one girl.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's crazy.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And going from uh living with a partner, you know, I a year ago went through a divorce.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was, you know, with a guy for seven years.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and and living with a partner, especially if you live in a place where you respect boundaries, and like I I could go upstairs to my office and do my podcasting, and he would stay downstairs and leave me alone.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: He knew that was my time.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: I knew when it was his time to be in his little area that we'll play his games or whatever.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were able to separate where it didn't feel like a roommate situation, you know, right around the if I needed to, it didn't matter what I look like.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I've recently allowed a couple of friends to move in with me.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, in today's America, let's split the bills.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have our own little corners, our own little bathrooms.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: We say what you know, we we have our space and stuff, but just getting accustomed to other people's habits and even little things like I'm like, am I becoming my mother?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like the dishwasher and the dishwasher was not loaded the correct way, which is my way.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yep.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on in my house here?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yes.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, a couple things.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yay, divorce, because that's what I'm going through right now.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: So fun.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: 10 out of 10, do not recommend.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: I should have never gotten married, but also, yes, the I was diagnosed with celiac two years ago, and it makes the whole kitchen situation a lot more stressful for me.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that and my ADHD makes chaos and clutter in my environment very overwhelming.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I get very easily overstimulated.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a lot.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, like, is it like the physical visual things as well as the emotional things that everything, yeah, yeah, and and yeah, because when we talked on the phone, and of course, I'm not gonna volunteer any information, but like the the direction and and the life changes that you're having to make would be such a shock to the system, you know, and living situations, and I think you maybe left state, the state you were in.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Temporarily.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: So should I just get into it?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a little bit.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: So back in the end of April, the beginning of May, I had reached a breaking point with my husband.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when I spoke with you on the podcast several years ago, I was married to him.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Still legally and technically, I am married right now, but I hadn't it hadn't gone into my mind back then that it was an abusive relationship.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Although clearly everyone else in my life saw it except for me, but I had been with him since I was 19, right out of the TTI.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: So going from one element of coercive control to another, and he's about seven years older than me.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: So when I was 18, 19, right out of a treatment cult, um, very vulnerable.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he was 25, you know, I was ripe for the picking.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we're leaving that a very controlled cult, almost said cult-like, but it's not cult-like, it's cultural.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was a cult, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So did you find like, was there some kind of like f familiarity or comfortability of of him being controlling as well, if that what if that would be the right word that you would use, where you were maybe micromanaged some?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it came off as controlling at first.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: It came off as me being very young, naive, and him paying for everything for me and me being very protective, and you know, just and doing a lot of drugs.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: We did a lot of ecstasy together.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: So at that point in time, like I was getting off all the psych meds that I was on cold turkey, doing a lot of psychedelic drugs with him, and just living in absolute chaos.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, right out of the TTI, I was homeless.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: I met him, I moved in with him, he saved me from homelessness.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I just saw it as, you know, better than where I had been.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't think I didn't think it was controlling or anything like that at first.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember the situation that led to it, but I do know that when we had first gotten together, young, I was probably 20, 21 or so, uh, he had proposed to me, and I at some point I threw the engagement ring at him.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't exactly remember why, but should have listened to myself back then.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: It only took me 20 years, but yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: So fast forward, about 20 years later, I had reached my breaking point.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: April was a very difficult month.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: If you have to ask Chat GPT, Google, your friends, whoever, if you're in an abusive relationship, you probably are.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I had begun cataloging things like conversations and experiences that I was having with him in Chat GPT.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And at this point in time, he had been diagnosed with autism, and I'm a therapist, and I'm a therapist, and I work in domestic violence, like not specifically, but a lot of my clients have experienced and are experiencing intimate partner violence.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And forgive me for interrupting, but yeah, I feel like you had mentioned that you would not have classified what you're going through as you know any kind of abuse, and that that it's almost like you were the last one to know you were being abused.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And but I feel like that's a common thing.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and in some cases, you know, you had people that was able to recognize it was even telling you that you're not in a healthy situation.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes there's people that I'm sure that you know that their partners has eliminated everyone in their life where no one recognizes that they're being abused.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that that would also take them, maybe they do already know, or they're still one of the last ones to know, too.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe it's not necessarily the conscious knowledge.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's me minimizing for survival, me minimizing my experiences because throughout all of this time, there were a lot of things that would be violent.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: He would break things in hotel rooms at like two in the morning, he would sabotage important events, he was very sexually abusive, he had raped me before.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, diagnosed me with autism, called me a narcissist, you know, said I had borderline personality, like, you know, just at screaming in my face.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, he just has autism.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's a meltdown, you know.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: He would threaten suicide.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: He would say he he would allude to the fact he would allude to having a gun in the house.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: And these this is all things like in retrospect that I'm seeing these big things screaming, yelling, punching things, destroying property, physical intimidation, sexual abuse.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that big, but it was like the death by a thousand cuts, the daily, you know, just getting broken down, broken down, the gaslighting, the minimizing.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: He would tell me that he was incapable of gaslighting because he has autism.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: He was incapable of manipulation because he has autism.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that that is part of the manipulation that he isn't capable of is trying to plant those seeds into your head that that this serious illness, that you know, that that the you know, this autism that obviously needs to be treated a certain way, and there has to be knowledge about it.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and but using it as a weapon against you, like that's like that that to me, and I who I can't diagnose anybody, and I'm not trying to, but like that's a more personality disorder thing.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, a lot of people will say, like, narcissism, I don't like to throw that label out there because but you know, when you think about like the patterns of abuse, the coercive control, it falls under the spectrum of what you know a lot of people call narcissistic abuse.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's that, but so back to several months ago, to be like what, almost five months ago, I had reached a breaking point.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: April was hard.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: There was, you know, he had a long time ago accused me of having an affair, which I didn't.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he had gone through my phone, all that, whatever.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's another thing, invasion of my personal belongings.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so he had accused me of things, and then it's like five years ago, held that against me, used that as a weapon against me.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Every time he was upset, that would every abuse it was I deserved it because of that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: So he had decided to go through, you know, one of my I do I'm into biking, cycling, mountain biking.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I use Strava.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: So he'd gone through my Strava from years ago and found something that he had uh decided was proof of said affair, basically two people giving a thumbs up to a post or whatever to a sport activity, and um decided to basically stand me up in group, is how I felt.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like back when I was in the TTI, we would get what was called stood up in group and screamed at and yelled at and torn down until we just admitted to whatever.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's how it was.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was interrogated, I was accused, it was just relentless for a month, and he said that I deserved the way I was being treated because you know I did this, this, and that.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was one morning before I had to go to work.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was taking a shower, and again, I'm a therapist.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've gone through all of the things.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to uh autism support, like uh partners of people with autism support group to, you know, try to figure it out a little bit.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was I adopted nonviolent communication to try to communicate so that he would, you know, be less likely to get defensive and whatever.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: It all got thrown in my face.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I, you know, decided to say I felt hurt, upset, whatever.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: No, not making accusations.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: I had tailored my language.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I had to tailor my language, I had to be the pinnacle of perfection when it came to articulating what I thought.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: But he had the privilege of screaming and calling me names and cussing at me and punching things and destroying property.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that is what happened that morning.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was in the house, I was taking a shower, getting ready for work.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: I was crying because I had said I felt upset about the way he'd been treating me.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: He started screaming at me, said that I was crying at him, that I was ruining this.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: How could I do this to him?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, then he just started punching things in the house.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: I just heard bang, bang, punching, and then he slammed the door and left.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the first time that ever in my life I'd called a domestic violence hotline.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And thank God for these people who volunteered because that was the first time my experience was labeled to me in such a clear way that this was abuse.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a wholly validating experience.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: I called them and made a plan.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, two days later, I took my dog and we drove to North Carolina where my sister lives, and I stayed there for a month.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Got a little, you know, some of my got my shit together a little bit.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, not really, because while I was in North Carolina, my sister's life fell apart, and then my dad was there, and that was not ideal, um, because he is not great.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: With emotions.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: So it was just not a great situation.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: But I stayed there for a month, cleared my head a little bit, had my dog.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And while I was there, I went no contact.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: I had the police called on me.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: He had tried to get me sectioned or involuntarily committed.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: I had I got a phone call from the police saying that he said that he had called them saying I was suicidal and that they found concerning things in the house.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Granted, this was a week after I had left.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: So and I wasn't suicidal.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: And there was nothing concerning in the house to begin with.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: So he kept trying to contact me.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: I blocked everything.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: The police called me.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: All of that.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: So while I was in North Carolina, it was really fun.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: I got hit by a car riding my bike.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: That was me.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: I got some road rash, whatever.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was, it wasn't like I'd been hit by a car like six years ago and got knocked out.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't as bad as that.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: The scene was a lot because like I was surrounded by like the police and the paramedics and all that.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, want to go to the hospital.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, no, thanks.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: So and the poor girl that hit me, she was like in her early 20s and she was like almost crying.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, it's okay, it's fine.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's happened before.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: No big deal.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then like the day after I got the worst.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: I've never had rope burn, but my dad had gotten me a rope because my hound dog is a hound.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: She runs.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I wanted to tie her up, have a rope, a long thing, so I could take her swimming.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Got wrapped around my ankles and burnt.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my, it was worse than getting hit by a car.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Damn.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have been through it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then then, so my sister has um a kid, she's three, my niece.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got so sick, I got bronchitis and a sinus infection from the child germs.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then I decided I had enough of being in North Carolina, and I drove home.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: And like my friends, I literally, I think it was like just my friend was like, you can stay at my house.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, okay, fine.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I drove back, and it took me three days to drive back.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: Number one for the dog, and number two, because I was so sick.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like coughing and just like drinking Dayquil, just like sipping the day quail while I was driving.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Granted, my car is ratchet.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: It has no seat belts because my dog chewed them.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that when she was a little puppy, she had gotten under the door, under the car seat.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, not the door, the car seats, and like chewed some wires that connected to the airbag sensor.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't even know if it has airbags, but it says, So I'm like, yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, should we be laughing about this?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh but I made it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: It gets to that point.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: I said all the time, it's like I'm either gonna laugh or cry, and I'm tired of freaking crying, you know?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I get so interested in the statistics of things.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think that you and I talked about this.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like it usually takes, I think what the average is seven times for a person to leave.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you left two days after making up your mind, and everything just really hitting you at what you were actually going through.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: In two days you were gone and you haven't returned.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: One and done, baby.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I attribute it to a lot of things.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, I'm very stubborn.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, I think, I think with ADHD, um, for me, it's very much out of sight, out of mind.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that, you know, the object permanence can happen with people too.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: But that, so going no contact was so important for me.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then having people be like, oh my god, thank god you're out of that.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like my best friends telling me, like, if you're five minutes late for something, I thought he had it was that time that he had hurt you.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like people telling me these things, and then being shown how I deserve to be treated.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that meaning, yeah.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you had people in your life that was you know treating you differently, and you're like, oh, this is what respect is, this is what courtesy and manners gotcha.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and and oh, okay.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: So when I say no, that actually means no, like respecting boundaries and no complete sentence.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Huh?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: No is a complete sentence.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly, yeah.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: So having people in my life treat me like I guess I deserve to be treated, and coming from that where I just felt like and was walking on eggshells, and my nervous system was just in fight or flight the entire time, and now realizing how every bang when I was at the house, I would flinch.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: He would come up to me and I would flinch, and he would be like, What are you doing?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Stop acting like an abused woman, you know, mock me like that, just even things like you know, like draw I have so much anxiety about having passengers in the car, not just because my car is ratchet, but um, just because like when I would drive, which he would like basically make me drive a lot of the time because you know, whatever he's autism.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: But then at the same time, he I would be driving and it would be like the he would like gasp and like clutch his pearls and like and it would give me so much anxiety, and I'm like, uh, you drive then, I can't take this.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's like uh yeah.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so you think he was purposefully I I I mean uh he would do that to my dad too.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, he wasn't nice, he wasn't nice, yeah, he was mean.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, you know, I want to ask, you had mentioned you know that you're a therapist, and you did not know, even though you work with domestic violence, people who've survived or in in part of domestic violence, that it still took you a minute to realize that you were.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what I have found, and again, not a professional, but just what I found by the conversations I've had is people are so easily able to say, well, this person has black eyes.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've never had a black eye, so am I really being abused?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've seen TV shows of women who are are you know in horrendous environments, and I haven't gotten a black eye, I haven't had a busted lip, he doesn't pull my hair, you know.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um am I really getting abused?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that really common?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, I do.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: That is common with victims slash survivors of domestic violence.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: That is common with perpetrators too, because they're like, oh, I'm not hitting her, so I'm not abusing her.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: They're they will look to other people as abusers, but won't see themselves as abusers.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's always someone worse, and I think it's the same for victims too.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's always someone worse, but again, for me, there was there is that I'm very good at compartmentalizing, so I can really like take the professional self and dial into you know someone and really hear their lived experience, and one part of me will be like, huh, interesting, resonates, but I shut that off a little bit.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm good at compartmentalizing, and uh yeah, I think there is the fact that he never, I mean, he's pushed me, he's raped me, he's kicked me in my sleep, but he never actually like punched me.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sometimes I would think like to myself, he'd be screaming in my face, and I'd be like, please just hit me.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think that is also a common experience of people who get um emotionally verbally abused by their partners is because they don't, you know, maybe the experience isn't as real or seen as abuse, and this is just a travesty that you know our society, this is just one of the big problems with our society.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: We see abuse as the most extreme, but coercive control, and again, my um one of my coping mechanisms is intellectualization.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I've for the past five months I've been on medical leave from work.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been going down the deep dive rabbit holes of podcasts and audiobooks and all of that on domestic violence and coercive control.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: And coercive control is actually like the most dangerous form of uh intimate partner violence.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us a little bit about that.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so coercive control is basically just a pattern of abuse that it starts off so insidious, and I think it comes down to like the complete erosion of a person, the victim, the survivor's identity, sense of self-worth.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: It can be like isolation, it could be, you know, the emotional abuse, it can be like the guilt trips for going out.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like for me personally, it was I stopped doing things, not because he told me to, because that's the thing, they won't outright tell you that you can't do this, but they'll make it so miserable that you decide on your own not to.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, independent.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then every time you're picking the battle, it's like yeah, he's the battle.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm here because if I go to the grocery store, if I go to the gym, if I go ride my bike, if I step out and make a phone call, it's gonna be two hours of shit.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna stay here and do nothing.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like that kind of thing, right?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's the gaslighting, there's the manipulation.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: There is, you know, it it comes to the point, like I said earlier, it's death by a thousand cuts, where it slowly shrinks your world.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And even like my two best friends, they saw it, they saw me just dying inside, and I did.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: I felt myself like I I felt myself just losing who I was, losing that spark and fire.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's coming back now.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't realize how much he had extinguished that flame until I got out of it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not in survival mode like I was when I was living with him, waiting for the next shoe to drop.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Always waiting for what did I do wrong, monitoring being his emotions, being hyper-vigilant to every change in speech, affect, tone, anything.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: I read the room so well.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: I could tell just walking in the door how my night would go just by the energy.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you get you get dialed into those just nonverbals that say so much.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I found it very interesting too how the the abuser wouldn't dare ask someone to always stay at home, you can't go do this, you can't go that.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So when when the abused is trying to rationalize things in their head, or even talking to a family member or a friend, and if the question is, well, so he's told you you can't leave the house or you can't go do these things, well, your response is going to be well, no, but he made me feel that way.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: He never said that.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, right.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: So now he's like, in your case, I of course I'm painting this whole lifetime story in my head.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, maybe you're just misunderstanding my tone due to the autism.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: The crazy one.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, yeah, he doesn't he didn't tell me I can't do this.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I can't, and then then you have those people that are like, Well, so the fact is he didn't say anything to you, you're feeling a certain way, that's your problem.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to make me a bad guy for your problem, you're crazy, and then what are you left with?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, and that's how he weaponized the autism and disability and all of that.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: And granted, I had been for a significant part of the relationship been the one working, I was the financial and still am technically, because like I said, I'm paying.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: So when I left, I, according to him, abandoned the marital home.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: So now he's living in the house that I pay the mortgage for with our cat, my with the cats that you know.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: And when I went to go retrieve a few of my things, um, I had to have a civil standby with the police because, and I had two of my friends come with me, and he was just so rude and obstructive with the police there.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: He was accusing me, saying I was trying to steal the cats, steal his things.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: He was following me from room to room, saying he wanted nothing to do with me first, but then following me room to room, taking everything out of the bags that I was like just frantically stuffing my stuff in, pulling it all out, what you know, the cops were there.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like he was completely unhinged, so rude, so obstructive, so manipulative.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just to like show how you know he'll act in front of the police and all that.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so not consistent, yeah, so threatening behavior.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, so I was like the financial provider, and uh, you know, again, still am paying for the mortgage, and yeah, so he lives in the house, but um, yeah, so uh again, back to like the whole autism thing and him weaponizing that.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there was a point step, it was almost a year ago now, I think.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: He slipped out in the parking lot of a grocery store and kicked a woman's side view mirror off her car.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: Guess who paid for his attorney?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, me.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: Of course I did.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: Huh.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so now I'm paying for my own attorney through the legal process because I could have had like services through our domestic violence shelter, but he got there first.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: So they can't, yeah.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: So he got there first.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how, but I know he was there because at that point we have a phi collar for my dog.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's a GPS tracker.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's I have an app for my phone.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: So my whenever she my dog goes somewhere, it would alert me when he was when he had the dog, it would alert me.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: So my phone was showing me that the dog and him were at the domestic violence shelter.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, that's weird.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: How did he that was the day after that I had called the DV hotline?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: I am thinking at now, like in retrospect, I'm like, oh, he must have gone through like my iPad or whatever.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: He must have gone through my messages and like so that block.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'm paying for an attorney.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: And now, and then so he was, and it's all been lie, lie, lie, lie.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's all been like brush.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: This was months ago.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: He was like, I have an attorney, you better get yourself an attorney quick.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: I filed, I paid the all of that.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't have an attorney, he just got an attorney.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm wondering where he got the money to have an attorney.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like he's not working.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know anything about his past?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was there history of anything that that you've learned that would be related to this and the way he's acting now?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, his past was messed up.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so he was a I he was a replacement child.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: So his sister tragically died as uh young, maybe, on yeah, uh infant or toddler, maybe under three years old in the bathtub.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And he was born not outright, so to speak, but you know, replacement.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, I think just some people, is it nature, nurture, it's both, but I think just some people are just more likely to be abusers, and I think and he's just in the level of entitlement, it's just it's wild.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think like if you're not, if you don't have that mind frame, if you're not an abuser, you don't get it.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: People don't get it.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: People try to rationalize and like understand, but it's like a different language.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't understand that language, you don't understand it, and you're not going to until you learn it.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know if this is the brain that you can learn.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: I there could be there's a lot of answers, but I mean, I don't know if anything really like I don't know that it could be a brain that I I'm speaking for myself that I personally could learn because I'm not an adult.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think that there are that there's awareness that can be brought to me for me to look for certain signs, you know.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm in a place in my life now, I've been single for over a year and I'm thinking about putting myself back out there.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I keep reminding myself of the things I need to be aware of because I've not dated or really been out in the dating world in eight years.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was with someone for seven years, you know.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and so the thought of like putting myself back out, like a lot can change in the dating world in eight years.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what's about to happen to me?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should just be alone forever.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not too mad about that, you know?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask you, um, and we don't have to hit on this too terribly long, but we I I know in the other shows I've had this conversation, I can't wrap my mind around the fact also that what was it, the eighties or nineties is when it became illegal to have unconsensual sex with your spouse.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that you can absolutely rape or be raped by your spouse.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And there are some older generations that will still argue with us about it, you know, in the air that they live.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, mind you, it's usually the straight man that's arguing the case.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I've even I actually know I can't say that.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've had equal conversations with with women that are like, no, no, it is my job.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: It is biblical.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that they're admitting that yeah, rape is in the Bible, and rape is biblical.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a good part of the Bible.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's a a good part of the story.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I can't wrap my mind around that.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's I mean, I hate to throw out the P word, but the patriarchy, like I think, and I think that is just like one of those real examples.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: of the patriarch the fact that it what for maybe 30 years it's been illegal to to you know have unconsensual sex with your spouse but and even some women it's that internalized you know you internalize the norms and mores of your society so a lot of women internalize those ideas and it is my marital duty to and for a long time I kind of that's what I would do I would my body I thought my body did not like sex with him I thought I had no sex drive it was my body protecting me and I would do my marital duty as much as I possibly could but again I did it to avoid you know punishment to avoid mood yeah whatever mood he would be in one time before a trip I talked about sabotaging trips one time before a uh bike trip that I went on he as I was leaving the door he accosted me and got really angry at me for not fulfilling my marital duties before I left for basically not having sex with him before I left the trip yeah he got really mad and I left crying but yeah so if it's not an enthusiastic yes then if there's any element of guilt or coercion or any of it it's not consensual and that is something that I have been having to learn myself like it wasn't consensual because I was doing it to avoid punishment.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: And saying yes because you feel like you have to again picking your battle does not make it consensual.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes having to say yes to something is that surviving you know yeah I'm glad that we're having this discussion about domestic violence I hate that it's a discussion that we have to have but I think it's very important to but to kind of shift things to a latter side of things with your job and what you're experiencing now and I and I want to say you're in real time experiencing this as far as like you've got your escape plan, you're living up to the escape plan, you have escaped but there's a baggage that comes with that and there's things that have to there's ties right I mean houses, cars, bills, all these things so what new thing have you discovered about yourself that you would like to pass on to women that might be in your shoes because you didn't go back you did leave you made the decision to leave it and and you did it that number one I guess I do have a sex drive is the first thing um that I discovered about myself.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: And even though like it had been 20 years you don't have to you don't have to suffer through it you I it's you I can leave and I can be done and I can be free and I don't have to feel guilty for taking up space or which is still it's a learning curve that's for sure I'm learning that a lot of my uh personality mannerisms way of communicating with people or trauma responses yeah I'm learning that I over apologize or over explain and you know want to be heard and seen and understood and like wait do you understand what I'm saying and I will go I don't need to do that.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I don't need to do that so like oh I don't want to go on a bike ride I don't have to say oh it's because I can just I've had my friends tell me like you can just say no I'm like oh I can because my you know we talk about fight flight freeze on is a more not necessarily like that is more of a learned survival that that's one of the learned stress responses that I have to manage other people's emotions I have to manage my environment other people they're okay then I can be okay and that's what I that's that was what I adopted I was a big fawner and that's why I do my marital duties every week and pay for the attorney and are you okay?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: Are you okay?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: Did I do something wrong?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are you mad at me?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like that constant checking checking needing reassurance asking over and over still have to break that yeah but I think I think personally for myself when I started finding these new things about me uh you know rediscovering myself after you know my trauma which granted mine was not uh mine was a one night one time thing by a stranger you know so so but I still had to unlearn some thought patterns and then you know for so long I felt like I I kept saying he stole this from my life he stole my joy he stole my laughter and then I started realizing that no it was just on hold for a little bit and so I started rediscovering myself I really started enjoying it and even just watching talk we could have sat and cried for an hour but we did we talked about some deep stuff but we also laughed with it.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know so I thought you're you know exceptionally when you talked about like discovering that no can be a complete sentence and that you don't have to have some kind of huge dramatical explanation to not do something that you don't want to fucking do.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and to find that you have a sex drive that that you've probably been well I'm sure been deprived of of so many things that you were just now starting to discover that maybe I do like pineapple on my pizza kind of thing.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and I think through all of this my cousin like he lives in DC and we on my way to North Carolina I stopped in DC and I stayed with him for a couple days and we have gotten so much closer that he it he has been like a shining star in all of this like our relationship just has grown and we both have such like fucked up sense of like the dark twisted sense of humor so we will just like laugh and just yeah so I think that's rediscovering that like that I can laugh yeah because my ex he would always just be like oh you're he would always he would just diminish me demean me oh you he would say mean things oh it's just a joke I'm just joking you're just you just don't have a sense of humor like that.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh you know and I'm like well be funny then I tell people all the time like you must not know how to joke properly because we should both be laughing you know I really enjoyed this conversation you know it I I know that's always so weird to say because we talk about some hard things but again it's conversations that we have to have and I don't want to get too crazy with this.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: With us being where we are even politically right now you know there there's a lot of things being brought to light and and there's also a lot of permission being given to a certain type of person that where maybe violence is okay like that I feel like they're getting give they're being given permission to be violent.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that we have to keep having these conversations and we have oh yeah we have to know where that safe place is.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah absolutely yeah yeah it's tough it's really tough and I think five months ago when I six months ago when I was working hearing because I stopped listening to the news I can't it was being a social worker being uh working with a population who my position's grant funded a lot of federal federal grants to my population being not a priority to our current administration so you know very scary for a lot of people so I stopped listening to the news but yeah still yeah you you know the political climate it's you know it's just that macro and it it does it affects everything and I'm really actually now not rediscovering but really like fine tuning like me not fine tuning but like the whole conceptualization of why I'm a social worker as a therapist and not like a licensed mental health counselor or any because a social worker has like a set of values different from let's say an LMHC that takes more of like a psychology lens as opposed to more of like a social context.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah I'm actually and I would cringe a year ago about the patriarchy and now it's like nothing like being a victim or a survivor of intimate partner violence to really get you like oh fuck the patriarchy yeah that like oh wow yeah women do have it a lot harder you know not to blame everything on it but yeah it can be tough for women well and and it really scares me too because and I don't know if a state has done this yet I want to say that maybe Texas has but uh I could be wrong maybe it's all just being talked about right now but the whole like no divorce act or whatever where um oh my god I need them in partnership oh no I said I couldn't even imagine imagine I mean yeah like the thought of if you were not able to get divorced for a year and still have you and I think they were talking about still trying to have it where you had to still like live in that house together.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that's gonna put people I I I I think that death rates will increase even if it's a person protecting themselves from the abuser.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah because obviously we don't care to put women in prison right now for protecting themselves one way or another.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah we don't have to go down that road but it just you know that's just where my thought process goes is what if we lived in a place where you were not able to escape and women and even some men were not able to have that escape plan and that right scary and that hopefully does not happen.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: But all right this is now I'm going to do to bring this to an end I'm gonna do my favorite segment with you from the ish bowl I'm gonna draw just a rapid fire question ask it to you and this was a little fun so uh I I I'm probably gonna want to answer this with you.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: So the question is would you rather have unlimited travel or unlimited food hmm let's see oh god that's a hard one because I like both but unlimited travel I would say unlimited travel like that yeah because I do like that just seems more like in all encompassing I can figure out even though I've celiac and I'm a little comp you know whatever it can be complicated but yeah I'd I'd do unlimited travel see I'm not I like to travel a little bit um but I'm good with one vacation a year I like yeah like being home I like to have a lot of like stay cases that doesn't mean I always have to be at work but I like being at home what I love more than anything is food.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love food I love the smellier the cheese the better it is you know like I want to try everything and if I could just be home where I have everything that I need and just have unlimited catered food come to me on a regular basis like people would want to be your friend yes oh the the the different kind of parties you can have with you know uh themed parties based around the food like yes I would do the food ah hey I get it I get it that makes sense I totally get it and but I would love maybe a good compromise where okay could I have unlimited travel within uh uh maybe the United States with like where could I could we just find a way to compromise to have both could I have unlimited travel in the United States as well as unlimited food while I'm traveling in the United States you know where I can try these new restaurants and just have an abundance of food and like could we find a compromise with that?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've got both right I mean I think like it would be easy for me to have un I mean not easy it would make my life easier to have unlimited food because I can be so yeah because it can be really annoying food for me.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah probably have to get uh dinner now that we've been talking about it because I was pissed off earlier so I'm so glad that we well I'm not gonna say reconnect we've never been unconnected but of course sometimes life just happens and it's been a while since we talked the other day and once we get on the phone there we are by pace yes love it yeah um thank you for doing this with me and we're gonna have and I I'm really looking forward to it I've loved this conversation I'm proud of you I know that thank you that things are are rough right now but you're staying better than afloat like you're you're doing it and I'm proud of you and I'm happy for you thank you a great example for people you know to help inspire them that that they are strong enough they can do it there's gonna be sacrifices it's not gonna be easy but you can do it.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah you can