Latest / The Diary of a CFO / How to Evaluate a CFO Role in Private Equity Before You Say Yes - Chris Voudouris, 3x PE CFO

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How to Evaluate a CFO Role in Private Equity Before You Say Yes - Chris Voudouris, 3x PE CFO · The Diary of a CFO

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We are live in Atlanta and this is the diary
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of a CFO. I'm your host Wassia Kamon and I've
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called this city home for over two decades and
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it is one of the most important business hubs
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in the country. This is a limited series where
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I'm sitting down in person with CFOs and senior
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finance leaders right here in Atlanta to learn
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more about how they build their careers, what's
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working, what's been different about doing it
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here so we can get a better understanding of
0:23
the humans behind the big titles. Today I am
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super delighted to have with me Chris Voudouris.
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Chris is a three -time PE back CFO. What I want
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to get into today is how he got there because
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Chris didn't come through corporate finance like
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most CFOs. He came up on the deal side, starting
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at KPMG, then transaction and restructuring,
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then private equity with grand partners before
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stepping into his first CFO seat in 2013. Three
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CFO seats, multiple private equity exits, a career
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built almost entirely inside the PE space. Super
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excited to have with me. today, Chris Voudoris.
0:59
Chris, welcome to the show. Thank you for having
1:01
me, Wassia. Of course. Always curious to hear
1:04
your story about how you got into corporate finance
1:07
and accounting. Yeah, sure. Well, I went to Villanova
1:09
University. When I was at Villanova, I had a
1:13
professor and that professor, his name was Noah
1:15
Barsky, and he was my accounting professor. And
1:17
he said, You know, I know you've been talking
1:19
a lot about going to MIS and double majoring
1:22
in finance, but forget all that. Come and do
1:25
accounting. Come to the dark side is what he
1:27
called it. And he said, if you do that, you can
1:30
do anything you want. So I heeded his advice.
1:32
I met some great people, KPMG folks. And that's
1:35
what brought me on that pathway of corporate
1:38
finance and accounting. Okay. And so once, once
1:41
you joined KPMG, were you in audit, tax consulting,
1:44
which one? Yeah, so I was fortunate enough to
1:46
have an externship followed the next summer by
1:49
an internship. OK, and that was all in the audit
1:51
space and had some really good groups and I did
1:56
audit for a couple of years. I liked it, but
1:58
I didn't absolutely love it because I felt like
2:00
I wanted to. be more into business insights.
2:03
And that led me into the transaction services
2:06
group, which is an M &A practice at KPMG in the
2:10
advisory side. And I joined that in 2006, 2007.
2:14
And that's what put me there. Okay. And so from
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being in at KPMG, what drew you towards like
2:21
private equity? Because once you left Big Four,
2:23
you went into private equity. Yeah. Yeah, so
2:26
KPMG was great for me. In transaction services,
2:28
I would assess and analyze strategic as well
2:31
as financial buyers targets that they wanted
2:34
to acquire. And these businesses, you saw some
2:36
really good ones. You saw some not so good ones.
2:38
You saw some mom and pops. I remember some businesses
2:41
where. mom and pop exterminators. Another was
2:45
GE Plastics was sold to Sabeck for $11 billion.
2:49
So span the gambit of different sizes and different
2:52
vendors who we were servicing. But as I kept
2:55
doing that, I saw a lot of different businesses
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and I saw good ways of doing things and bad ways
3:00
of doing things. But I wanted to do things. I
3:03
wanted to be a part of the journey of these businesses
3:05
themselves. And that's what led me to explore
3:09
what else is out there. And I found Graham Partners,
3:12
a private equity firm in Philadelphia. And that's
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what really led me to go out to private equity.
3:19
Okay. And what brought you to Atlanta? A mix
3:21
between opportunity and the regional interest.
3:25
So I had a one year old son at this time living
3:27
in Philadelphia with my wife, Melissa. And there
3:30
was a business called Universal Pure. that we
3:34
owned and it was operating out of Lincoln, Nebraska.
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And we were opening a green field operation here
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in the suburbs of Atlanta, Albuquerque, and when
3:43
that business was going, we really needed a CFO.
3:46
And I ultimately raised my hand. went through
3:50
an interview process. And next thing you know,
3:52
I was moving my family down to Atlanta. I knew
3:54
nobody down here scared to death. Right. And
3:57
my wife and I were excited though. And now we're
4:00
never going to leave. Oh, good. Good. But curious
4:04
to hear though. I'm glad you raised your hand,
4:07
but That was your first year for all coming directly
4:10
from like the deal side and most CFOs usually
4:15
come from corporate accounting. They've done
4:16
clothes or some type of FPNA. They've done like
4:19
the budget and forecasting. You came straight
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from there. How do you feel that that Do you
4:24
feel like actually strengthen your PE background
4:28
help there or? Yeah, it's a good question. You
4:30
know, I looked at it from the outside, right?
4:32
From the service provider at KPMG. I looked at
4:35
it from the ownership side, Graham Partners and
4:37
being the private equity owner. So coming in,
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I was always thinking about value creation. Where
4:43
are we going to create value and exit readiness,
4:45
right? Is this business prepared to be exited?
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Because that's the private equity model. you
4:50
buy a business, you're going to improve upon
4:52
it, and then eventually you're going to move
4:53
on and sell and return the capital back to the
4:56
investors with a gain. And because I always took
5:00
that view, I would say there's many different
5:02
ways to cook an egg, right? There's many delicious
5:06
ways to cook an egg, but ultimately somebody
5:10
from corporate finance can cook an egg probably
5:12
just as well as I can. I will tell you, when
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I cook that egg though, I'm always thinking about
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how and in what way are we going to be selling
5:19
that egg later as well, in addition to making
5:21
a delicious egg. I'd say that's kind of the unique
5:24
difference and the angle that I came from, than
5:27
somebody growing up from within. Did you have
5:28
like a culture shock though, like coming inside?
5:31
Because I have a lot of friends who went from,
5:33
you know, being an auditor to coming inside going,
5:36
what the heck, because they were advising and
5:38
now they're doing the work. So curious to hear
5:40
what your transition was like. I wouldn't say
5:43
it was a shock and that's because when I was
5:45
in transaction services My job was to explore
5:49
these businesses to get the data get the information
5:52
cut and analyze it and then say, okay What stories
5:55
is it telling and then ask those stories? And
5:58
if those trends made sense to the people that
6:00
worked within those businesses So I spent a lot
6:02
of time with those people asking them for insights
6:05
and what's driving certain trends that I was
6:07
seeing or circumstances and therefore I interacted
6:10
with them often. I'd say that in addition to
6:13
wanting to be part of that day to day, I wanted
6:15
those relationships. I wanted to have those deeper
6:18
relationships with the people that are part of
6:19
creating the value in the business. Nice. So
6:22
now you've been a CFO at different P companies
6:26
now. So I'm curious to hear what you do usually
6:28
in your first 90 days, like when you join a new
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venture. Cause I'm curious to hear. your perspective
6:35
on it, because everybody has their own playbook
6:37
on what they do within the first 90 days. Curious
6:39
to hear yours going into a new PE. Yeah, sure.
6:43
Sure. Well, I've done it a couple of times and
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each time I try and go in with the same approach,
6:49
but also tweaking it a little bit. The first
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thing is just being open and welcoming. And you
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need to really just hear people's stories and
6:56
what's going on. They've been there and you want
6:58
to learn from them what they think is going on
7:00
in the business before you go and jump to conclusions
7:02
about what you think needs to be done. So I would
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say that going in with an open mindset is extremely
7:08
important. And you also need to be vulnerable.
7:11
You need vulnerable and confident all at the
7:14
same time because Think about it. When you're
7:16
making friends in the world, not just work, but
7:18
just friendships, those people that open up to
7:21
you and they expose themselves from a vulnerability
7:23
perspective, it's healthy. It's good. And you
7:26
need to find common ground. And the only way
7:29
to do that is share who you are. And then I spent
7:31
a lot of time on learning who they are. And that
7:34
can go at different levels. I'm reminded of my
7:39
last director of FP &A. When we started connecting
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and we were talking, we both had children. And
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his big thing was to go to Costco with his son.
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And I'm like, I love going to Costco. And we
7:52
talk about it. And he's like, yeah, we go around.
7:54
And next thing you know, on one of those social
7:56
media type platforms, maybe it was Etsy, something
8:00
pops up. And it's buying this little tray that
8:02
goes into the Costco cart that you can put your
8:05
hot dog and soda on while you're wheeling around.
8:07
I bought that for him, right? So you need to
8:11
have connection with your team. There's going
8:14
to be tough times in business. And if you don't
8:16
have that relationship, then it becomes tumultuous
8:20
at times. And if you don't have that, you need,
8:22
you're going to struggle a little bit. Okay.
8:24
Now, speaking of relationships, so how you connect
8:27
and relate to people when you're on the buy side
8:30
versus the sell side, right? Cause you've analyzed
8:33
deals like both ways. Yeah, that's correct. So
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what have you learned? Like what's different
8:38
about maybe the culture or the people on one
8:41
side versus the next? Yeah, I've done both buy
8:44
side and sell side due diligence. So I've looked
8:46
at it from the third party perspective from the
8:49
buy side. You know, you really want the business
8:51
to open up about not just their greatest successes
8:54
and where things are going, but also where the
8:56
biggest risks are. Because sometimes those biggest
8:59
risks create the biggest opportunities as well.
9:01
Ultimately get aligned on. I'm trying to create
9:04
value here, and if we can create value together,
9:06
we're both going to be successful. On the sell
9:09
side, it's really important to have your ducks
9:11
in a row, have your stories, your past, and then
9:13
also where you're going. Why do you think you're
9:15
going to get there? And if you're going to get
9:17
there because you've accomplished it before or
9:20
because you've seen performance that aligns with
9:23
early indicators and those early indicators are
9:25
starting to flag again, and you can prove that
9:28
those early indicators were a leading indicator
9:30
of what happened in the past positively. Now
9:33
they can look and buy something based off of
9:35
the future value, not just the present value.
9:38
Okay. So selling, you really want to create as
9:41
much value as you can at that time. Okay. So
9:43
I hear a lot about being in PE is a lot of stress,
9:47
is a lot of long hours. So curious to hear like
9:50
your perspective on it. What should people really
9:53
be talking about? Is it true? Like, how did you
9:55
survive? Sure, sure. So I think stress can actually
9:58
be a motivational tool to some extent, and there's
10:01
healthy levels of it and it creates drive. Distress,
10:04
however, you don't want that. You don't want
10:06
situations where you cannot win no matter how
10:08
hard you try, you're not being listened to or
10:10
otherwise. So I think it's important that it's
10:13
the right type of stress. And oftentimes, stress
10:16
is a reflection of the people that you're working
10:19
with. And if you're put in a situation where
10:21
you guys can't win, then that stress isn't very
10:24
healthy. Otherwise, I think stress is very healthy.
10:26
You need to challenge yourself. come back and
10:29
then go back to more stressful opportunistic
10:32
situations. So being in PE, you know, we also
10:35
hear, I also hear, you know, the payout could
10:37
be great, but you know, the road to get there,
10:40
you're not too sure. How do you navigate that?
10:42
How would a finance leader think about like the
10:45
debits and credits of being successful in that
10:48
environment? Yeah. So you're right. It's, it
10:51
is not linear. As I think about any opportunity
10:54
as a CFO, You kind of have to look at it with
10:56
kind of three lenses. And those three lenses
10:58
are, I'd say, the investment side of it, right?
11:01
If you are taking a job as a CFO, you are making
11:04
an investment in that business. And that's the
11:07
long -term incentive equity that you're talking
11:09
about and that benefit. You need to make sure
11:11
that you diligence the industry, the business
11:14
that you're looking to go into, and the partners
11:16
that you're looking to do it along with. And
11:18
then you need to assess the business itself,
11:21
right? this is my job, this is where I'm gonna
11:23
be spending my time, you're gonna be spending
11:24
more time with those people than you do at home.
11:27
And you need to assess that just like anybody
11:29
else do so. And then I'd say the last thing that
11:32
you're assessing are the people, the who. And
11:35
for me, the most critical thing is that relationship
11:38
with your CEO. I've had some CEOs that are just
11:41
spectacular, really motivational, also very understanding,
11:45
friends, and I would say that they're friends,
11:47
but you're in the foxhole with them. Right. And
11:49
you need to build those relationships I talked
11:51
about before. Yes. Those are the kind of the
11:54
ways that I would assess it. Okay. But yeah,
11:56
there's definitely, I wouldn't call it a pot
11:57
of gold, but there's something at the end of
11:59
that rainbow that is beneficial and rewarding
12:02
for your time and commitment. So what are some
12:05
tips there? Like what should you be looking for?
12:07
Cause now, you know, in talking with most CFOs,
12:10
we're talking about how your offer letter, like
12:12
what are some of the things in the contract that
12:14
you should be looking for security here? Like
12:16
what are the the things that you usually want
12:19
to have in your offer letter or your contract
12:22
any any special clauses as you walk into a role
12:25
in the piece. You know it's funny I haven't thought
12:26
about it because it's just so normal for me right
12:29
but you're typically going to find your base
12:31
compensation your bonus target percentage but
12:34
then you're going to have some type of equity
12:36
incentive which is often referred to as sweat
12:38
equity and that is equity that you earn over
12:41
the period of the hold cycle of the private equity
12:44
investor. There's typically some tranches to
12:47
that, meaning that the equity matures or vests
12:52
over a couple of different thresholds. The first
12:54
is time -based, typically. So as long as you
12:56
are there for a period of time, or at least there
12:59
when you do sell and create realized value for
13:01
your investors, that box is checked. There's
13:04
typically also some hurdles that need to be accomplished,
13:06
whether they be MoEC, multiple of them invested
13:09
capital, two or two and a half times, sometimes
13:11
even three times required. And then IRR. So what
13:15
rate of return is the investor receiving? They're
13:18
all different. And they can come up with many
13:20
more creative ways of measuring that. But that's
13:24
the equity side. Typically, otherwise, you'll
13:27
have separation agreement clauses. So you'll
13:29
have an expectation that if you guys decide to
13:32
part ways, there'll be some kind of runway for
13:35
you. And the rest kind of all comes together
13:38
as you go through it together. OK. But I think
13:40
my best advice is really understand the business
13:43
that you're looking to join because you are making
13:46
an investment. You're making an investment in
13:48
that business and you're making an investment
13:49
in the people that you are partnering with, your
13:51
CEO and the private equity firm that owns them.
13:53
And as you're trying to make that investment,
13:55
what kind of questions should you be asking or
13:58
documents to be able to do that? Because I feel
14:01
like sometimes, especially when I'm talking to
14:03
first time CFOs, they're like, oh, I wish I had
14:05
asked for this. Oh, I wish I asked for this report
14:08
or this. I should have asked for three out of
14:10
this statement. What are some of the things you
14:12
like going and say, okay, I'm going to ask this
14:14
list of questions as I go in. That's a good question.
14:17
I would start out with, hopefully there's a SIM,
14:19
confidential information memorandum. When they
14:21
went and bought the business, what was the summary
14:23
of that business? It gives you the full picture.
14:26
Sometimes if it's a proprietary deal where they
14:29
just found this business and bought it on their
14:31
own, that might not exist. You'll typically have
14:33
a quality of earnings report. Oftentimes there'll
14:36
be an investment thesis. on how this business
14:39
was targeted and found. And I like to get that.
14:42
Sometimes there's sales due diligence or contractual
14:44
due diligence where the customer arrangements
14:46
are reviewed. And especially if you have a high
14:49
customer concentration business, you'll want
14:51
to make sure that you get those contracts and
14:53
just be able to look at those, see if there's
14:55
some loopholes or just get the sales diligence
14:58
report if there's not as much customer concentration.
15:01
There's probably a multitude more. You definitely
15:03
want to make sure you're doing facility visits
15:05
and tours so that you to understand what that
15:08
business is like and how it's viewed from the
15:11
perspective of the other executives that you're
15:13
going to be partnering with. So I definitely
15:16
want to do facility tours with the COO. I want
15:19
that individual to say, here's what I like, here's
15:22
what I don't like, and here's how that all works
15:24
together. You want to walk around and spend time
15:26
with the CEO, understand their relationship with
15:29
private equity investors. There's varying degrees
15:32
of involvement by private equity shops. And where
15:36
you're going to find out what that's going to
15:38
be like is when times are tough, right? So you
15:41
want to get some feedback on that. Commercial
15:43
is huge, right? So private equity is typically
15:46
investing in businesses that are growing. The
15:48
intention is growth and operational execution.
15:51
Well, if you're looking for growth, that commercial
15:54
officer is going to be a really important person
15:56
to meet with. Understanding how they're going
15:58
to the market, what they look like, what their
16:00
sales cycle tends to look like. Um, those are
16:03
all different things that I do. Can you get a
16:05
new opportunity? Okay. And then it's, it's so
16:08
enlightening. I know you've been living in this
16:10
world and I'm like, wow, I will never think about
16:12
it. So definitely if I look at a P I would drop
16:15
his contact information in happy to be involved.
16:21
Thank you so much for sharing, especially on
16:23
the things that you don't know. You don't know,
16:25
right? Cause you had the advantage of going in
16:28
that you had been on the consulting side analyzing
16:30
both sides. And then you went in the CFO seat
16:32
and you were able to see, okay, this is how it
16:35
looks once you're inside. How do you work with
16:38
the CEO? I'm curious to hear maybe what was the
16:40
hardest conversation you had with the CEO because
16:43
now in my seat, I realize a lot of your success.
16:47
is hinge on that relationship with the CEO. That
16:49
CFO CEO relationship is like everything. Yeah,
16:52
that's really well said. I mentioned the foxhole
16:54
before, right? I mean, you're in with other executive
16:57
leaders, but you're definitely in with the CEO.
17:00
And establishing that relationship is extremely
17:04
critical. And I've connected with CEOs before
17:07
on the fact that when we let our hair down and
17:09
unwind, we like to go to Las Vegas for a casino
17:12
trip, right? And we enjoy that, or music or otherwise.
17:15
I've found ways to connect with those CEOs. But
17:18
ultimately, as you're looking to partner with
17:20
your CEO and you're bringing ideas and you're
17:23
looking for opportunities within your business,
17:25
you need to start with the why. It's very important
17:27
to tell them why you're bringing it, tend to
17:30
be what are the options at hand, and then which
17:32
one you're recommending. And again, why. The
17:35
why is extremely important for any CEO because
17:37
they need to make their own decision on a lot
17:40
of things and if you can help them to that pathway.
17:42
I would also say that you need to meet them where
17:44
they are and that means a lot. I don't mean just
17:47
physically which is part of it but every CEO
17:51
just like every individual receives things differently
17:53
and some like to be informed of things very frequently
17:57
as they occur. Some like to be summarized and
18:01
some like to have you handle everything and tell
18:04
them only when they need to know certain things.
18:06
So you need to meet them where they are in their
18:08
degree and they all have their pluses and minuses.
18:11
Okay, so I'm curious to hear a fun story now.
18:14
Any story you want to share about? CEO or your
18:17
go -to move to establish that trust. Yeah. Once
18:20
you get there. Cause it's some, or maybe what
18:23
questions you ask before you actually want to
18:25
work for a CEO. I'm just curious to hear. I did
18:27
a recent post on LinkedIn about how, you know,
18:29
there was a CEO, everything was kind of going
18:32
okay. But then there was a fallout with the CEO
18:34
and the CFO had to leave. Like he was like, you
18:38
know, I need to find something else. So I'm always
18:41
here to see. How can we prevent those kind of
18:44
situation? Like what have you learned? Really
18:47
worked. Funny stories. I mean, I remember maybe
18:51
the one that lives with me the most because I
18:53
was earlier in my career. I was chief cook and
18:56
bottle washer on the finance function side. And
18:59
I did the model for the budget for the year.
19:01
And we had a good amount of growth built in.
19:04
We got it approved by the board. Everything was
19:07
hunky dory. And yes, I just used the word hunky
19:09
-dory. And I'm looking at something later as
19:15
I'm putting it into an analysis. And I was like,
19:19
uh -oh. There was a savings in there that was
19:22
just a model error that we had done. And about
19:25
15 % of the total EBITDA growth that we had just
19:28
projected to the board was just an error in the
19:30
model. And the finding for me or what I found
19:35
there is that Needed to go to my CEO and immediately
19:38
right and just be like, hey, this is what happened
19:40
This is where the error occurred and what I found
19:42
is that when you share those tough circumstances
19:45
It's really you find out the true nature of your
19:49
relationships and also the true nature of the
19:51
individuals you're working with Ended up not
19:53
being a big deal, right? We work through it just
19:55
fine, but you never know. So when you have a
19:58
difficulty share it early And what do they say?
20:02
Good news, share quickly. Bad news, share it
20:04
even quicker. I would say that was kind of a
20:06
little bit of a learning lesson there. Okay.
20:09
Cause yeah, too. Accounting error. You're bringing
20:12
back memories. You're bringing back memories.
20:16
It does. It does. But I'm curious to hear for
20:19
you, what's the difference between like a CFO
20:22
that, you know, you just run the accounting and
20:24
finance operations, but really being a CFO. That
20:27
is see you actually consult when it comes to
20:29
strategy, right? Like you really the right hand
20:32
person and like they want you in the room versus
20:36
the CFO. That's like, you know, staying your
20:38
I've been very fortunate that in each of my experiences,
20:42
I've been in that room. I've been in those conversations
20:44
and I think it's a couple of things. One, you
20:47
come into a very open minded and understand that
20:49
everybody is a stakeholder at that table, trying
20:52
to push a different ideation or motive or what
20:54
they think is right. And you gotta hear them
20:56
all because they're all good ideas. It's just
20:58
a matter of which way you typically think it's
21:01
best to go as a business. So I would say that
21:03
open -mindedness is most important. But then
21:06
I've been teased before that I always turn everything
21:10
into analogies, right? I think earlier I said
21:12
analogy of an egg or something like that. I had
21:16
a CEO once say, My gosh all these analogies.
21:19
I'm gonna create a book and then the next thing,
21:20
you know Next four meetings. I said more analogies
21:24
and he started writing down the book. He paused
21:26
the meeting and started writing Different analogies
21:29
and maybe that book will be out someday So hopefully
21:33
I get some credits. Yes, but I think the point
21:36
about analogies is the CFO role. It's important
21:40
to be a translator because The World Cup is on
21:44
right now, right? And everybody's talking. I'm
21:46
like, how are they talking? Well, they're all
21:47
talking English, right? Because it's that common
21:49
language. I would say finance and numbers and
21:53
the debits and credits that you grew up loving
21:54
is that common language for everyone, whether
21:57
it's the sales team or the marketing team or
22:00
the operations team or the safety team or whatever
22:03
it may be. Everybody has to come together in
22:05
that common language. And that common language
22:08
is the numbers. And as CFO, it's your job to
22:11
be you know, chief interpreter for the organization.
22:14
So I think the CEOs have appreciated that have
22:17
been able to put it into a language that we can
22:19
all comprehend and make decisions that are based
22:23
on facts. Nice. Now thinking about the CFO, right?
22:27
I love how you said the analogy is really the
22:30
storytelling and how you make it those complex
22:32
things, you know, easier to digest. So people
22:35
who don't have that accounting and finance background,
22:37
but then finance I realized will pick up anything
22:40
that doesn't belong. Somewhere like we we get
22:43
the the gifts something is new It ends up being
22:46
under the CFO like HR IT like I've seen so many
22:50
things Being owned by CFO. What's your take on
22:53
that? Like how do you adjust? Yeah, I think it's
22:57
because we touch everything You know because
22:59
we're already involved in everything if something
23:01
doesn't have a home Well finance is already touching
23:03
it finance is already assessing that and trying
23:06
to put it into a box or a situation or evaluation
23:10
or a risk or an opportunity. So I think that's
23:13
a little bit of the why. Does it happen often?
23:16
Yes, it does. I've got some partners, you know,
23:19
we're all hearing about AI, right? And some CFOs
23:23
are leading the AI initiatives in their business.
23:26
Others are falling within the CTO seat. I know
23:30
that the most important thing is that you bring
23:32
in the appropriate individuals to be a part of
23:35
that team. and get their information and share
23:38
it. So AI, bring in the HR department because
23:41
believe it or not, there's a lot of individuals
23:42
and organizations who are not adopting AI just
23:46
because they're scared of it. They don't understand
23:47
it and they're worried about themselves. So HR
23:50
is an important partner to have at the table
23:52
in an AI discussion. So you wouldn't think of
23:54
that, right? That's the kind of thing that a
23:56
CFO needs to do is think about who could be impacted,
24:00
how and why, because they have access to all
24:03
the information across the organization. Curious
24:06
to hear with all your see your PE space experience
24:11
and all the stuff you did when you look back
24:14
What is something you will say you wish you had
24:16
known on day one? I'm gonna go with a couple
24:18
things. I'm gonna cheat I'm gonna say number
24:20
one is relationship trumps the issue. It's it's
24:23
very important to establish and maintain your
24:25
relationships throughout everybody's just here
24:28
to bring value to a business, succeed, right?
24:30
People don't go into work and say, I want to
24:33
suck at this today. It just doesn't happen. Everybody
24:35
wants to do well. So it's important to maintain
24:38
those relationships and build upon them. Another
24:41
thing, I would say early in my career, it was
24:43
very cost conscious. A lot of private equity
24:46
is about growing. So you need to spend to grow.
24:50
It's important that you spend the right way,
24:51
right? But you need to spend. It's a little bit
24:55
like the Las Vegas analogy, reference I made
24:57
earlier, you need to make little bets throughout
25:00
and you and your CEO are going to make little
25:02
bets and you want to help on, hey, this one looks
25:05
pretty good and here's why, here's the why. And
25:07
then last I would just say is trust your instincts.
25:10
They tend to be pretty solid and trust yourself.
25:12
Okay. Now back on the little, the, you said the
25:15
little bets, um, coming from like the education
25:19
we have in accounting and we are, I feel like
25:22
we naturally, like we naturally gravitate to
25:25
a cost saving. And we don't like spending. Like
25:28
you ask my husband, he will tell you, yes, I'm
25:30
married to an accountant because I remember the
25:32
price, the price of milk. Like I remember things,
25:36
remember numbers. How, how do you make that switch
25:39
though, to be able to see, yes, where, what are
25:42
the risk and opportunity, the risk, but also
25:44
the opportunities, right? The, the cost saving,
25:46
but also where the growth could be. Yeah. Yeah.
25:49
I think you're right. You know, risk avoidance
25:51
is something that flows in the in the blood of
25:54
any accountant it needs to be done in an individualistic
25:58
approach so like to each individual opportunity
26:00
identify what is the floor or what is the risk
26:03
presented in this opportunity and then you can
26:06
say okay well is that something i can bear is
26:09
that something our organization can bear or handle
26:12
and as long as the answer is yes and your upside
26:15
potential is something that's really desirable
26:17
or something you're looking for or aligned with
26:20
your initiative then Let's dive in. By the way,
26:24
we need to get your husband with my wife together
26:27
because my wife's constantly telling me that
26:30
it's okay that four packages from Amazon arrived
26:33
at the house today. That's my husband. Is it
26:36
crazy how we attract the opposite? Yeah, the
26:39
opposite definitely attracts in this world, for
26:41
sure. Yes, he gets more Amazon packages than
26:44
I do. He does. I'm like, I'm your dream wife.
26:48
You don't even know that. Yeah, I totally agree.
26:52
Although thankfully my wife's buying everything
26:54
for the kids. I wouldn't know where to start
26:56
half the time. So give her credit for that for
26:59
sure. Good, good point. Score the point. Now
27:05
curious to hear, you know, what's keeping you
27:07
in Atlanta now? Cause you've been, you still
27:09
here. You don't have to, right? Sure. We love
27:12
it from a community perspective. You know, Atlanta's
27:14
this wonderful city of opportunity and the infrastructure
27:18
of Atlanta, where you start with the airport.
27:21
You also have the seaport. Everything kind of
27:24
flows through here. It's the entire southeast
27:26
and it's wonderful. My wife loves it. So that's
27:30
it. That's a thing. Yeah. So we're here forever.
27:33
And the community. that we've we've been able
27:36
to become a part of. We're very grateful for
27:38
that. We live in Smyrna, which is just outside
27:41
of the city. And I would say there's a number
27:43
of counties just outside of the city that are
27:46
a great support system as well, whether it be
27:49
our church or our schools or our friends or our
27:52
little league or our dance studio, whatever it
27:55
may be. We love it. And everything we want is
27:58
here. So that's that's really important. I would
28:02
say that when you look at Atlanta and the southeast
28:06
talked about that infrastructure but there's
28:08
also really good education around here oh yeah
28:11
a lot of universities and i didn't know about
28:13
that when i lived up in the northeast it's like
28:15
oh there's the ivy league and that's that's like
28:16
it and and now that i've been down here and you
28:20
you know about the I don't want to name the schools
28:22
because there's so many of them. But when you
28:24
name the Georgia Texan, the Georges and the Emery's
28:27
and the Kenesaw State, the Georgia State, the
28:30
Georgia Southern, and then you think about those
28:32
that are just outside of that and the entire
28:33
SEC and Auburn's just down the road. And there
28:37
are so many good educational communities that
28:41
support. And what they do is they feed great
28:43
talent into Atlanta. And that's the other key.
28:47
I would say those three prongs are infrastructure,
28:51
education, and then the talent. Great talent.
28:54
Okay. And then what have you seen in the PE space?
28:57
How do you think he had evolved in Atlanta? Or
29:00
is it pretty much the same? Do you see more activity
29:02
going? Because I remember when I started, I didn't
29:06
see as many things around PE than recently. And
29:09
I'm like, oh, what happened in the past decade?
29:12
I think PE has had a focus on the Southeast more
29:15
recently. I was just speaking with a firm the
29:18
other day that their entire first fund was focused
29:20
on businesses in the Southeast and they're doing
29:23
very well for themselves. So there's just a lot
29:26
of opportunity here. A lot of PE originated and
29:29
was based up in the Northeast. And, you know,
29:32
I want to say it was something like 70 % of our
29:34
consumption in the U .S. at some point in time
29:36
was all up in the Northeast. That's changed.
29:39
And as that's changed, the opportunities, the
29:41
businesses. Southeast is a very great, very good
29:44
place to be. By the way, I go back to that infrastructure
29:46
at the airport with Atlanta. You know, if you're
29:49
a private equity business and you've got partners
29:51
in Chicago and New York City, you want to get
29:55
to your business and you want to see it and you
29:57
want to help it and you help grow it. You can
29:59
get on a flight and get there pretty quickly.
30:01
There's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot to be said
30:03
for that. OK, OK. So my last question for today.
30:06
Curiously here, what is your favorite thing to
30:08
do outside of work? Thank you for that question.
30:12
It's got to be tied to sports. Okay, and more
30:15
recently for me I've been very involved in golf.
30:18
I love golf. I have a buddy group Hey, guys.
30:22
And we go on a trip every year. And that's a
30:25
lot of fun. And then when I'm going to relax
30:27
or when I'm going to see somebody from work outside
30:31
of that environment, it's a great way to separate
30:33
and just get back to nature, get to a little
30:36
bit of competitive environment. But that competition
30:38
is against yourself oftentimes. So I love it.
30:41
And that's what I do. More recently, I've also
30:43
tied that into giving back to the community.
30:45
We just kicked off our high school. we kicked
30:49
off a middle school feeder team. So I'll be coaching
30:51
the young men and ladies in their aspirations
30:54
to be young golfers and eventually make the high
30:57
school golf team. So I really enjoy the sport.
31:00
Oh, gosh. Yeah. You you are into things that
31:03
are kind of stressful. So going back to how you
31:05
said earlier, you you believe that stress is
31:08
not bad. I can see with your hobbies like me
31:11
when I'm not working. I am Netflix saying I am
31:14
eating. I'm doing things. I do like to eat a
31:18
lot. I cook too. Oh, you do? I'm the cook too
31:21
in my house. I enjoy it. I just need to find
31:24
the time. Yeah, that too. But I'm curious to
31:27
hear, though, like, when did you realize that
31:30
stress was not a bad thing? Because we hear it
31:32
all so often. And I'm always like, we're asking,
31:35
what do you do? I'm like, man, he does a lot
31:36
of stressful stuff. Yeah. I think it goes back
31:40
to my roots of sports. And I would say, like,
31:44
when you were When you were taught as a child,
31:47
it was no pain, no gain. It was a very common,
31:50
you know, and it's like, if you don't put yourself
31:52
in challenging situations, you are not going
31:55
to grow. You're not going to develop an athlete
31:58
that I found out more about after his passing.
32:01
Actually, I was just amazed by was Kobe Bryant
32:03
and the amount of effort, hard work and challenge
32:07
that he put into himself is unbelievable. It's
32:11
it's it's such an aspiration. So, you know, Sports
32:15
brings all back to me. And I think that a challenge
32:18
within a business is fun. I think it creates
32:21
opportunity and it also creates camaraderie just
32:25
like sports. Well, thank you so much for being
32:28
on the show. I learned a lot about, you know,
32:31
being in PE and that's why I love this podcast,
32:33
by the way, because I get to learn from people
32:34
like you who have done it for so long. Thank
32:36
you so much for joining me. It's my pleasure.
32:38
Thank you so much for everything you do for the
32:40
CFOs of today and tomorrow. Thank you. Thank
32:43
you. And that's it for today's episode of the
32:46
Diary of a CFO live from Atlanta series. There's
32:49
something about doing this in person that you
32:50
can feel from the side of the mic. If you felt
32:52
that energy too, I hope you subscribe and send
32:55
this to someone who needs it. See you in the
32:57
next one.