Latest / The Photography & Video Show Podcast / 1: Nikon Z8, Canon EOS R100, monochrome cameras and royal portraits with Hugo Burnand

Transcript

1: Nikon Z8, Canon EOS R100, monochrome cameras and royal portraits with Hugo Burnand · The Photography & Video Show Podcast

• 0:10
  David McClelland: Hello and welcome to the all-new photography and video show podcast.
• 0:14
  David McClelland: I'm David McClelland, and on the first Thursday of every month, we'll be here to fill your kit bag with not only the latest news from the world of photography, filmmaking and video, but with chats with professionals right at the top of their game, plus some competitions and well, who knows what else?
• 0:32
  David McClelland: Because this is the first episode, and frankly, we're just gonna see where it takes us.
• 0:36
  David McClelland: What we do know is that later on in today's show we'll be hearing from a renowned portrait photographer who was an integral part of one of this year's most watched television events worldwide, the man behind the official coronation images of King Charles III and the royal family, Hugo Bernand.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: It made me fall back in love with the art of medium format portraiture.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it is about that camera.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I love the results it gives, I love the feel, and I love all the technical stuff, which is way above my sort of brain capacity.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I was incredibly lucky to have been introduced to that camera.
• 1:15
  David McClelland: That's all coming up later on.
• 1:16
  David McClelland: But first, joining me this month to muse over the news is editor of Digital Camera World, James Arteas.
• 1:23
  David McClelland: Hello, James.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, David, and it's really, really exciting, first of all, to be here, but also to bring to the wider listenership some of the conversations that you and I have sort of shared in the past.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: I always find that the chats we have off-air, or sort of, you know, over a coffee, those are some of the most interesting sort of little insights and tidbits about the industry and about things we've seen, or like, oh, do you know this?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: This is cool, or ah, I've just played with this toy.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a real privilege to get to share that with more of the folks in the industry and tell people about things they might not have known about, or just share some silly stories that you and I have.
• 1:58
  David McClelland: Absolutely.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, how about we dive in with this month's news?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing would please me more.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always up for a bit of news, especially since there's so much going on right now.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's very newsworthy.
• 2:13
  David McClelland: Let's kick off with Nikon with our friends at Nikon, and they've taken the wraps off the Z8, or I'm sure it's been called the Z8 in places.
• 2:21
  David McClelland: It looks like a ripe beast of a of a camera, James.
• 2:24
  David McClelland: And I think you had some hands-on time with the with the Z8 only this week.
• 2:27
  David McClelland: And you were getting up close and personal to some actual beasts, weren't you?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely correct.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've had uh I've had a fair bit of time playing with the new Z8, or as you say, the uh the Nikon Z8, as it is in some territories.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: And um I, you know, because one of the things about the flagship cameras, the pro-level cameras, is they're tracking the autofocus, the sort of very, very sticky, robust uh tracking and detection systems.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought, short of going on a quick safari visit to one of the wonderful local zoos down near where I live, which is which is a lovely long lead, and just see how the camera fared when pointing it at everything from um turtles to um you know big cats to everything in between, red pandas when as and when I could find them.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: But being able to sort of point it at zebras and say, oh, does you know what does it make of that?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Does it focus on the stripe or the eyeball?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, trying to find animals behind foliage, does it focus on the leaves, which is often the case?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Does it find the beastie hiding sort of between the leaves?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: And uh it has to be said the Z8 is truly, truly formidable.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is a baby Z9.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: That is in fact what Nikon, that's how they described it to me when they were telling me about it, which is very interesting because you on the one hand you say, Well, why didn't you release a product?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, given that it's got a different name, uh ostensibly is a different product, but why have you released a product that is basically your existing flagship camera, but without the vertical grip so without the pro DSLR style grip that uh people know about?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's for that very reason.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: We had the opportunity to build any camera we wanted to with a Z8, but we are very, very aware that there are some people, so this sort of speaks to your earlier point, David, there are some people in the industry who will only buy a quote unquote pro camera with a big body and you know that looks apart.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: And there are some people who will only buy a smaller body without the big grip.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: They might both want the exact same specs, which is what Nikon's reckoning is.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: The big difference is some people need the big grip and some people definitely do not want it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: So they've essentially released the same camera with a different shape of body, which is uh I don't know if it's unprecedented, certainly very unusual.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: But the long and short of it is the Z8 is a Z9 that costs about a grand less, has the exact same level of performance, and because it's got the most recent firmware, it's actually a little bit more advanced at this moment in time.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, so far it's it's a three-horse race.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: You have the Sony A1, which is Sony's flagship 50 megapixel beast, and the Z8, which is 45 megapixel flagship beast, and you've got Canon's R3, which is their de facto flagship, because the real flagship will be the Canonios R1, but because that is not here yet, and um uh that is rumor.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's it's it's confirmed to be in development.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it would not be silly for us to assume that an R1 might appear in time for the Olympics next year.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: But as things stand right now, it's the R3.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, back to the Z8, which is what I started talking about.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: It is a very, very, very nice camera at a very, very nice price point, and I think it's going to sell better than proverbial hotcakes.
• 5:28
  David McClelland: So, well, we we'll come back to hotcakes, I think, later on.
• 5:31
  David McClelland: But in terms of positioning here, assuming that people are going to be going from, you know, Nikon shooters are going to be going from a DSLR over to the mirrorless system, if that's the journey that Nikon envisages for them.
• 5:44
  David McClelland: Which is the equivalent?
• 5:46
  David McClelland: You know, I've shot with um D800, D850 before.
• 5:50
  David McClelland: Would I be right in thinking that the that the Z8 is like the mirrorless equivalence, the the the next step on the road for those photographers?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: Very, very much, yes.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that was that was again part of Nikon's sort of um double-barreled and perhaps slightly jarring messaging was sort of they were telling us, you know, this is the you know, this is the uh the baby Z9.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And also in the same Brett saying, this is the literal quote, this is the true successor to the D850.
• 6:17
  David McClelland: Right.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's fulfilling two roles there.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, not that you can't do two things at once, but it's just sort of they seem to be separate messages.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, flagships tend to be things like the D5 and D6, but a lot of people, a lot of professionals use the D850 because, again, that was the beast of the DSLR era.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think most people, um, regardless of what system they used, would would probably concede that the D850 was the best DSLR ever made.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly the best, most the most well-rounded, the most capable, the one you would take on any job to shoot any sort of um end product.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the thing with the Z9 was when that was released, you couldn't get them.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: They were absolutely, you know, it was, it was, you know, it was like finding hand sanitizer during the pandemic.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: You just could not get them for love nor money.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, whereas Nick On has sort of said, okay, we realize now that people want this camera in fairly large volumes, so they've they've sort of they've taken a bit of a punt and put a lot of resource into making sure that there are plenty of Z8s available.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, this one should not be the unicorn that uh that the Z9 was.
• 7:14
  David McClelland: Final thought on this as I was reading uh your piece on this.
• 7:18
  David McClelland: You you mentioned some of the firmware power-ups on there, and in terms of the uh the image tracking, the uh autofocus tracking, and the fact that above the Z9, this has got plane tracking.
• 7:30
  David McClelland: I was taken back 18 months ago to Storm Unis, February 2022, and Big Jet TV.
• 7:37
  David McClelland: Do you remember Big Jet TV that day when most of the country was tuned in uh Jerry Dyer, his name, and he was there on top of a pickup truck outside Heathrow Airport, getting so enthusiastic about these planes uh that that were coming into Heathrow.
• 7:54
  David McClelland: Jerry's been able to leave his job and do big jet TV full-time now.
• 7:59
  David McClelland: I read in a in a story on The Guardian.
• 8:01
  David McClelland: Wow.
• 8:01
  David McClelland: Maybe if he were to invest in a Nick on Z8 uh with its incredible video capabilities by the sounds of it, then he'd been a pretty good place to do big jet TV with even more accurate tracking of those planes as they fly through the sky.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hats off to Big Jet TV.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: If you can turn that into your full-time occupation, you know, let's sponsor this boy and get him a Z8.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get him some some kit to play with.
• 8:24
  David McClelland: Sky's the limit, Jerry.
• 8:25
  David McClelland: Anyway, moving on to our next story from one end of the market, perhaps to another, the Canon EOS R100.
• 8:32
  David McClelland: So continuing the the mirrorless camera fest, uh, some reviewers on the R100 believe that Canon's new entry-level mirrorless camera may be out of touch with beginners.
• 8:44
  David McClelland: But James, uh, you mentioned hot cakes before.
• 8:46
  David McClelland: I think you're gonna come up with a hot cakes line again.
• 8:49
  David McClelland: You think the R100 will also sell like hot cakes as well?
• 8:53
  David McClelland: I think both views may have some merits here.
• 8:56
  David McClelland: But first of all, what is the R100?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so the Canon EOS R100, it is Canon's latest entry-level camera, but in mirrorless form.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously, it already makes cameras like the 2000D and the 250D, but that's using DSLR technology.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's old school tech.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: They still produce those cameras at the moment, but I think it's fairly safe to say every manufacturer, with the exception of Pentax, Pentax is still sort of clinging onto the DSLR Warwagon until the bitter end.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: There are many advantages of an older fashioned DSLR camera, but there are many more advantages of mirrorless technology.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: So the R100 effectively replaces cameras like the 250D and the 2000D, as again, the cheap and cheerful.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing air quotes as I say that, which um you know most people won't be able to see, because cheap and cheerful in a mirrorless context is different to cheap and cheerful in a DSLR context.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you can get an entry-level, good DSLR, you know, 300 bucks upwards will get you.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's not going to be the all-singing, all dancing thing, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: But it's going to be a good camera that's going to take you good images, and it's going it's great for photography students, it's great for soccer mums, it's great for, you know, people who just that maybe they're elevating from their smartphone, they want something with a bit more image quality, they want to be able to change lenses or take advantage of the depth of field and things.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: So if you just want your first ever camera, I was gonna say Fisher Price, my first camera, but that's that giving the wrong thing.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's this is this is not a Fisher Price camera.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if it is your first entry point into the world of interchangeable lens cameras, you want an entry-level thing, A, because you need it to be simple enough to use, because giving someone a Z8 is it I I review cameras for a living, you review tech and cameras for a living.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: If someone gives either of us a Z8, it takes us a little while, you know, to find the brightness setting in the menu, all of that sort of stuff.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: So for somebody who doesn't know what aperture is, there's no point giving them a big crazy thing.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: They need an entry-level camera that is designed to be simple and is designed to support the user.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what the R100 does.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's not an underpowered camera.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think people make the mistake of thinking entry-level equals NAF or not good in some way.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: It is lacking in some of the features that more advanced cameras have, certainly.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: But to suggest that it's not a good camera, um, I took it around for a walk around with me a couple of weeks ago, and um you couldn't tell what what camera these photographs were taken on.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think we've we've long passed that point of pixel feeding and going, oh, well, that's that was a 10-megapixel camera, your pictures are rubbish.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's a 24-megapixel sensor, it's the same one that's in a lot of other Canon cameras, such as the uh the EOS uh M50 Mark II, which is one of the most popular sort of travel and vlogging cameras.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's speaking to what I was just saying about the trickle-down effect of technology.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it has dual pixel AF, which is Canon's hybrid phase detect and uh contrast detect system.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you're getting the same tech that's in Canon's flagship DSLRs, you know, the 1DX Mark III, the 5D Mark IV, you're getting the same autofocus tech in a camera that costs 600 quid with a lens.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, in that regard, to suggest that this is in somehow a less than capable camera is very disingenuous.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Does it have some drawbacks?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, potentially.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have a flippy screen.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Most people don't mind about a flippy screen.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: The main thing for me is it doesn't have a touch screen.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's the thing because you're trying to convince folks this is a step up from your smartphone.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: This is the next logical step in your journey.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: But of course, anyone who takes photos on the smartphone is going to be stabbing the screen.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And if you do that on the R100, it will not respond.
• 12:27
  David McClelland: And it's that usability point in a way, because you were, you know, you want to lead people, particularly if it is the first um, again, big air quotes on my side here, proper camera, interchangeable lens camera.
• 12:39
  David McClelland: You want it to be a journey that they're eased into, that they feel as though, yeah, okay, I can get this.
• 12:45
  David McClelland: And if people are used to touch screens, whether it's through their phones or through other cameras, if all of a sudden they don't have that anymore, it might almost feel like it's a step backwards, like going up to big boy cameras actually feels like it's a step backwards for them and hinders them on that journey.
• 13:03
  David McClelland: I think that's one of the concerns.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: Agreed.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I can only imagine my response if I bought the new iPhone this year and it didn't have touch capability.
• 13:11
  David McClelland: Just imagine.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: There would be some backlash, there may be some Reddit threads on that subject.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's very valid.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: I presented that's Canon, and I they said, What did you think?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, This is great, this is great, this is great, that's a real shame.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a missed opportunity.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: We are talking about a camera that is intended to be as affordable as possible.
• 13:29
  David McClelland: Yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that it is accessible to the entry-level user.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that is a is an unfortunate compromise, but if we're talking about why doesn't it have a flippy screen, why doesn't it have a touch screen?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because at the end of the day, it's trying to be affordable.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a compromise.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: It might be a step too far for some people.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: You might get your head around it.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think we need to cut it a little bit of slack and remember that this is the equivalent of the 250D.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason I think it's going to sell like hot cakes is because the 250D did and the 2000 D did.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you talk to Canon, they will say those are two of our most important products because those are the ones everybody buys.
• 14:05
  David McClelland: But I think how the world has changed from when maybe you and I were first getting on board with these cameras, and we're no longer going from literally a Fisher Price, my first camera, to something uh, you know, with interchangeable lenses and all the menu systems.
• 14:20
  David McClelland: My concern back to my point earlier is that people are going from really sophisticated camera systems on their phones with touch screens for that and that's the big sticking point here for me.
• 14:32
  David McClelland: The articulated screen, yeah, take it or leave it, really.
• 14:36
  David McClelland: I I I think at this level, but I think it's that touch screen which maybe the world has moved on a little bit, and that might for some people, for some people, be a compromise too far.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're right, the world has moved on.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's it's an easy, it's it I was gonna say it's an easy thing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's a tricky thing for me to get over the touch screen.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think what's important for Canon at this point is to, it's all in imaging.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Less that this replaces your smartphone, and more that this does the things your smartphone cannot do.
• 15:05
  David McClelland: Thank you, James.
• 15:06
  David McClelland: And we'll come back to the news in a few minutes' time.
• 15:11
  David McClelland: Now, a few days ago, I caught up with a portrait photographer who knew that his images from an hour-long shoot on a rainy Saturday in May would feature on the front pages of newspapers, glossy magazines, and websites around the world, not only for the following days, but for years to come.
• 15:30
  David McClelland: No pressure then.
• 15:34
  David McClelland: Hugo Bernand, Royal Photographer, thank you so much for joining us.
• 15:39
  David McClelland: Not even two weeks have passed since the coronation of King Charles.
• 15:44
  David McClelland: My first question has to be: how are you feeling now?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Feeling pretty good, to be honest with you.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've got over the first excitement, and then there's a sort of dip in energy levels because it was months of preparation building up to the one hour of photography that we did.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I I had my down day on Monday, which I thought was a good day, just to do nothing, knowing that everyone else was going off to work and I just did nothing on Monday.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And now I seem to be back on track.
• 16:14
  David McClelland: I'm pleased to hear it.
• 16:15
  David McClelland: You are absolutely no stranger to working with the royal family.
• 16:20
  David McClelland: You've worked on a number of pieces, a number of shoots with them in the past, haven't you?
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: I probably worked with the pair of them for nearly 20 years.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: The first photograph I took of them together was as they walked down the aisle at their wedding.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: I then did some formal photographs back in Windsor Castle after that.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: I had photographed as she was then Camilla Parker Bowls, sort of three, four years before that, after I'd been introduced to her by her sister.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I did some portraits and some work for her Ostoparosis charity.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we'd already built up some form of relationship through the camera prior to their wedding.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then since then I've come back and done one or two jobs.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: William and Catherine's wedding, I suppose, was the biggest.
• 17:09
  David McClelland: Let's go back to that Saturday of the coronation.
• 17:13
  David McClelland: The pressure.
• 17:14
  David McClelland: The pressure is on.
• 17:15
  David McClelland: I've read in the past about your meticulous attention to detail in preparing for these shoots.
• 17:22
  David McClelland: So, what can you share with us about your preparation, about the pressure that there was on the day of King Charles' coronation?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a time where I have to say it's incredibly important to have a very good team around you.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I have, in my opinion, undeniably the best team possible.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And together we worked out where we were going to take each of the photographs we've been asked to take, how we were going to light them, and the order in which we were going to take them.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we wanted the journey for the king and the queen and the other people who were being photographed to be fairly simple as we went through the schedule of photographs.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the planning is critical.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: We actually did three dress rehearsals this time with stand-ins.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: When you actually come to do the shoot, you have 100% confidence in your equipment and in your team all around you.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it enables me as the photographer to engage with the people on the other side of the lens.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, it's that thing about portrait photography.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can get the lighting right, you can get the angles right, you can get the colours right, camera, everything.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if I can't feel some connection or emotion with the person that I'm photographing, you as the viewer of the photograph won't feel any of that emotional connection either.
• 18:43
  David McClelland: Were you able to do all three of those dress rehearsals on location?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: We were in in Buckingham Palace in the Throne Room for three days prior to the event, and we lit each photograph as an individual portrait and then tried to sort of stitch them all together.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: But there were different lights set up for each one.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the dress rehearsals, I have to say, they were great because they were a disaster.
• 19:09
  David McClelland: A bad dress rehearsal means a good first night.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, exactly, because the thing is, if everything goes right in the dress rehearsal, you're stuffed if anything goes wrong or you know, when there's anything happened.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: So we had, I have to say, after the first dress rehearsal, people could have questioned why they'd employed us.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: But we all knew that actually everything that hadn't worked quite according to plan was part of why we'd done it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I have to say each dress rehearsal kicked up new issues that needed to be ironed out.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: And of the three dress rehearsals, we never had one that went absolutely smoothly.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that was fine.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: We were happy, we were confident, we we were ready for anything that came our way.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the actual event went flawlessly.
• 19:53
  David McClelland: With all of the planning, you're working out how many setups you can accomplish within the hour.
• 19:59
  David McClelland: It would be easy to go into that with a sense of hurry, with a sense of rush, with a sense of urgency that, if it were not managed well, could work its way into the final images.
• 20:11
  David McClelland: So, how do you create the necessary mood, the necessary sense of calm when the stakes are so high?
• 20:18
  David McClelland: How do you keep your subjects as relaxed as they need to be?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's two answers to that.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: The first one is that the hour that we had asked for and were more or less given wasn't then stopwatched during the actual event.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: We knew we fitted in within the hour.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we didn't give ourselves time pressures during the actual shooting.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: The other side of it is what you mentioned there.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important not to let any of that pressure come into me, because it will go straight through the lens to them.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: But that has helped by having a long-term working relationship with them because they sort of know that I'm gonna get the job done.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't know, I suppose it just re- it goes both ways.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: It goes both ways.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But the the sad thing is if you do put it under pressure, it it shows instantly, in in the faces, in the eye, in the body position, everything.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there are you know tricks of the trade, a bit of laughter, a bit of badger.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I personally don't particularly like the idea of being photographed myself.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I find it quite an uncomfortable experience.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if the person behind the lens spends too long analysing you through the lens.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: That sort of silent, very intense scrutiny, I think, is absolutely I mean my toes are curling while I talk to you about it.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: So knowing how uncomfortable it can be to be photographed, I make absolutely sure that the people that I'm photographing never have to experience that through the lens, silent scrutiny.
• 22:00
  unknown: Me.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I tend to talk quite a lot.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And the other benefit of talking quite a lot is that it stops them wanting to talk because they listen.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's less chance of you getting open-mouth shots.
• 22:14
  David McClelland: Yes, I'd heard that you were quite chatty during the course of your shoots.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, sometimes I can appear more Mr.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Bean than I really want to, but what really helps relax the people on the other side lens.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: They know the results are coming through.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the track record and any sort of comedy that goes on, they don't worry about it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it just makes them relax.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: How collaborative is your process in a shoot like this?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think collaboration is essential because otherwise the portrait becomes purely the photographer's point of view.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And with a new person that I'm photographing, I nearly always try to spend an hour with them, either in person or just chatting away, just to get a feel of who that person is and get them to hit a few balls back to me.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now that has happened over a 20-year working relationship.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: We have collaborated on various ideas, which has been great.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, in a way, when we start the conversation about what we may or may not do for the coronation pictures, we're already a few steps down that path because I know roughly what they like.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: They know roughly what I like, or what I'm capable of, I should say.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: So the collaboration started many years ago but continued right all the way through.
• 23:33
  David McClelland: Now I confess I've never had the pleasure of visiting Buckingham Palace before, but from what I've seen on the walls there, there are countless paintings, I'm sure lots of photographs too of previous generations adorning all the walls.
• 23:47
  David McClelland: How do you allow that history all around you to influence your work on the shoot?
• 23:53
  David McClelland: Or or indeed, do you?
• 23:54
  David McClelland: Do you try to have a clean mind and make sure that it is the work of you and whom you're working with in that moment?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's very interesting.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's again two parts to answer on that.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: The photographs that I viewed or researched, and the paintings that I also researched.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the paintings on the walls of Baiking Palace are fabulous.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I allowed myself to be influenced by one or two while we were setting up.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And there's one particular painter, Winter Halter, who painted Queen Victoria quite a few times.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And just looking at his angles, I definitely allowed his influence to come into some of the portraits that I did on the day of the coronation.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I'm more probably talking about the angle of the throne and how much one could see of the throne.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look back at those paintings, you can see it adds so much to the photograph, the structure of the photograph, the composition, and the impression that it gives.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the photography side of the first coronation to be photographed was Edward the Seventh.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very interesting looking at his photographs because people were so much more familiar that I was educated towards paintings.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: So they actually painted onto the photographs so that anyone viewing them would feel a certain familiarity.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And really what they painted was the ermine and the robes and stuff like that.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, technology advanced, but that's where the backdrop came in the technology wasn't available to light a person and a room.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: And those rooms in the palace are enormous.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, particularly in the throne room, they have red silk on the walls, and that sucks up the light.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: What they would do is they would paint beautiful scenes onto a canvas, be it pillars and swags and staircases, or it might be you know low horizons and fantastic trees, and then they'd position both the backdrop and the subject close to a studio light.
• 26:06
  David McClelland: Well, this is where is this not the with the backdrop, Cecil Beaton and uh Elizabeth II was that the main photograph that I remember was there in front of a backdrop, was it not?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I think what he was doing, because by then there was the ability to light runs, but I think he was harking back to history and bringing forward a which was no longer strictly necessary, but used to fantastic advantage and results.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: I did, I mean, not dramatically, but sort of I did the opposite.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to give the impression that sort of spring daylight was coming in through the windows.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it worked.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know it worked because someone asked me a technical question was what was my shutter speed, which would incorporate both artificial light and daylight?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I happily told them that they'd completely fallen for my trick, which was to make it look like spring daylight coming through the window.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, it was a howling gale and rain was coming down left, right, and centre.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: But in the pictures, you'd think it was a nice spring daylight.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I basically made the reality look almost like my own personal backdrop.
• 27:13
  David McClelland: What did behind the scenes look like on the day?
• 27:16
  David McClelland: You mentioned quite a lot of lighting that you had, a a team of people helping you out as well.
• 27:22
  David McClelland: Were you able to maintain that sense of intimacy still on set?
• 27:27
  David McClelland: I'll call it on set in in the throne room.
• 27:29
  David McClelland: And what about all the kit?
• 27:31
  David McClelland: Do you find that gets in the way sometimes?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've ever been to NASA space station.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't, but I imagine the throne room looked a bit like that with all the satellite dishes that were you know enormous, enormous umbrellas and softboxes and scrims.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: But we had a very clear path between the the positioning of the subjects in the photographs going through the lights, and it was incredibly tidy.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was a bit like walking through the science museum.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And no, I don't think it did phase anyone.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they've seen me at work before.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think they might have been disappointed if I just had two umbrellas and two stamps.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: We arrived in the morning on our bicycles, which is I saw some video of you arriving on your bicycle.
• 28:18
  David McClelland: It seemed very low-tech and very humble for the day that followed.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but also practical because all our equipment, including the cameras, were already in the palace setup.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't take away from the slightly unnerving feeling that you're setting off in the morning to do the biggest job of your life and you haven't even got your camera with you.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it doesn't feel right.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's also a practical reason because the roads are all sealed off.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: So bicycle is the best way.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's of course the environmental aspect, which I just like tunes in very meekly with our very environmental king.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: But on the way back, we still only had bicycles and it was pouring with rain.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And there was that moment of thinking, God, we've done this job, and we've got all the camera, well, not all the cameras, we've got some of the cameras and all the cards in these backpacks, and it's raining so hard.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to stop under the arch in Hyde Park Corner and just double check that the cards were still dry because we were literally drowned rats.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, they were dry and we giggled and we cycled the whole way home and laughed and had a cup of tea.
• 29:30
  David McClelland: Well, thank goodness it wasn't raining that heavily in the morning on your way in, otherwise, that would have been a different experience for the shooters.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that would not have been a good start.
• 29:40
  David McClelland: Now I understand that for as much control, as much preparation as you had, you were also using a different or a at least for you, a new camera system on the day for these shoots as well.
• 29:52
  David McClelland: What can you tell us about that?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when I started my career as a portrait photographer, I was incredibly lucky to have a Hasselblad, and I loved it.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely adored it.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: It took me a long time to actually step into the digital world for portraiture.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to say it's all gone well, but I started shooting with a Fujifilm GFX S100, and it did this strange thing to me.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: It made me fall back in love with the art of medium format portraiture.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it is about that camera.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love the results it gives, I love the feel, and I love all the technical stuff, which is way above my sort of brain capacity, but I was incredibly lucky to have been introduced to that camera.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: And knowing that these portraits had to be done in medium format, or not knowing, but that was my choice.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was really, really happy to have found Fujifilm.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I'm not a hundred percent well-versed on the environmental credentials of Fujifilm, but as I understand it, as in the research that I personally have done, they are the most environmentally friendly camera production company that I can find.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So many aspects of this camera I just think are fantastic.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And a funny thing also, I didn't realise to start off with, but it's such a badge of honour to have a Fujifilm camera.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the the people that come up to me and nudge me and tell me about theirs or whatever.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like a new club that I didn't know I was joining.
• 31:35
  David McClelland: Well, I'm very pleased that you've found a camera that you're able to connect with and indeed build a connection with those whom you're taking portraits of.
• 31:46
  David McClelland: The environmental story you talk about there fits in very well with King Charles' environmental principles and uh and viewpoints as well.
• 31:55
  David McClelland: So it sounds like a very happy match indeed.
• 31:58
  David McClelland: Yeah, Hugo, it's been terrific to chat with you.
• 32:01
  David McClelland: Thank you so much for taking time to join us.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, and thanks for letting me run away with some of my thoughts.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 32:13
  David McClelland: There we go.
• 32:13
  David McClelland: You know what?
• 32:14
  David McClelland: I really enjoyed chatting with Hugo.
• 32:16
  David McClelland: Uh, as part of my research, I'd uh read a few interviews he'd done in the past.
• 32:21
  David McClelland: Uh, and yeah, of course, his work over the last well, couple of decades or so is really, really well documented.
• 32:27
  David McClelland: But uh I struggled to find any of him on on camera or on audio at all.
• 32:33
  David McClelland: Uh all I all I really knew was uh an interview someone managed to grab with him uh on his bicycle outside of Buckingham Palace on the uh afternoon, I guess, of the uh of the coronation.
• 32:46
  David McClelland: Uh it is that meticulous attention to detail.
• 32:49
  David McClelland: I'm pleased we were able to go into some of that in the uh in the interview that we did.
• 32:54
  David McClelland: What did you make of Hugo?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: I th I thought he was he was fantastic.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, um it's it's he's one of those chaps, he's like the old rock and roll photographers from the tabloids from years past, they're full of stories, they've got great anecdotes, um, and you know, a one-of-a-kind, as you say, he's sort of the quintessential royal photographer and the quintessential royal photographer in the sense that he's very much behind the scenes.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's little chatter involving him and what he thinks about things.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: So for you to be able to sort of pin him down and get him to sort of spill the beans a little bit on his process and on the how he got into the day.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what I found most fascinating about that is his talk about the process of the day itself.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if I can make this all about me for a second, so I was fortunate enough to when I when I was working as an assistant, um, my old boss um was commissioned to do two Prime Minister's portraits.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: So he's got two photographs hanging in number 10.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, oh, well, that's nice.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: They must have made a full day of that, and you had lots of time.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, No, he had 20 minutes.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: And 10 minutes of that was finding his way into the labyrinthine part of Downing Street, they were doing the photograph.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: He sort of got in there.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: By the time it was time to shoot, he probably had five minutes, and it was kind of like the subject comes in, sit, sweet time to sit, or stand, sweet time to stand, you get your shots, and then he goes.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I found that the most fascinating bit of my boss's anecdote.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: To hear how it was in the royal context, and you think, wow, the pressure that professional photographers, this is what everyone always says, Oh, why you know, why why do photographers cost so much?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because they have to get it right under extremely compressed time and pressure situations.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that he's got his team of assistants who helped him out no end.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, if something went wrong with those images, he's the guy whose name is on them, he's the guy who pushed the shutter, and you know, his reputation is on the line with those images.
• 34:38
  David McClelland: Thank you, James.
• 34:38
  David McClelland: And uh thank you to Hugo as well.
• 34:40
  David McClelland: And I'm I'm sure you've seen them already, but if you haven't, we'll try to find some links to put in the show notes to those images that Hugo took.
• 34:48
  David McClelland: Now, James, uh, you put out a question a few days ago about who the heck gives the damn about cameras that only shoot in black and white.
• 34:57
  David McClelland: Well, it turns out that a lot of people give a damn, some very strong damns they give.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, the the dear and darling readers of digitalcameraworld.com, or at least at least one or two of them have, and uh, a lot of them had some fun with it and sort of took the took the conversation in sort of the spirit it was, and I was I was being a little bit cheeky with my comments, but I think ultimately, for those who don't know, so of course we most of us are familiar with the world of digital cameras and mirrorless cameras and cameras that can shoot 8k and cameras that can shoot 100 megapixels, but a lot of people aren't aware that there are some cameras, some very expensive cameras at that, that only shoot in black and white.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: So not an Instagram filter, not a not a you know, not anything done in post-production, nothing in After Effects.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a camera that physically only shoots black and white.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um there's different ends of the spectrum on this.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason this came up as a talking point was within the last month we've had two of these cameras.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: So Leica releases uh a monochrom, no E, because it's Leica.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: They released a monochrome edition of a lot of their cameras.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um the most recently was the Leica M11 monochrom, which um is about 9,000 pounds worth of camera.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you pay nine grand for a camera that only shoots black and white.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um a couple of weeks later, or around the same time, Pentax released a uh Pentax K3 Mark III DSLR, um a little bit cheaper at about£2,200, but again, it only shoots in black and white.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you want to get really silly, well, I was gonna say really silly, if you want to get really serious about this, um red makes camera, there's a red epic camera that only shoots black and white.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: There is a phase one IQ 140 that's you know the thick end of 60 grand and only shoots black and white.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't dispute that there is some necessity, especially as someone who works with image quality and image fidelity.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: I understand that you want the best tools for the job.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: What I don't necessarily, certainly for my work, and my work is not a lot of professionals' work, but can I get satisfactory enough results with my existing cameras shooting in a monochrome mode?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: For my work, yes I can.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: Now I shoot probably 60-70% of my stuff in black and white.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: When I do so, um Oh really?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: I do, yeah.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't and I don't do what a lot of folks do, which is again, I'm not criticizing, this is not any sort of um damnation.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: When I shoot in black and white, I turn my camera into black and white mode.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: I turn it into monochrome because that's just how my brain works.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't convert colour to black and white retroactively.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: I do if I need to rescue a picture that doesn't quite work in colour and I want to use it, like if there's a if there's a model's expression that is perfect, but for whatever reason, you know, there's too much green in the background or something, I might do a conversion then.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: But typically if I'm shooting black and white, I will shoot with black and white mode in my camera.
• 37:40
  David McClelland: So I understand the principle of And that's because you tend to shoot portraits, is it?
• 37:45
  David McClelland: The portrait form that you find best fits black and white for your work?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: For my work, it's it's it's it's two things mainly.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Portraiture, a lot of times, I uh my my ex-wife was a redhead, and it seems criminal as a lover of red hair to shoot red hair in black and white.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: But there is so much tonality.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the thing, when when photographs or images in general are removed of the distraction of colour, they are then focused on shape, texture, form, dimension, all these other wonderful aspects of photography that are otherwise obscured by, you know, oh wow, look at all the colour rendition, or oh that's uh look at the blue pop in the subject's eyes, or whatever.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it's great for portraiture, it's also great for street photography and reportage and behind the scenes.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I alluded to my previous life as a as a photography assistant.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: I used to do a lot of uh behind the scenes work for photo shoots, and there's something about that gritty, tri-X-y kind of old school black and white look that just works.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: So the point being, I understand the value of black and white and of having really good quality black and white.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: What I don't quite necessarily vibe with is spending nine grand to only be able to shoot that because you can't convert a black and white into colour.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, well, maybe you can with AI.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's a conversation for another one.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: But my colour camera can shoot black and white very capably, and for my work that's fine.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: Do I want to limit myself by spending either two and a half grand or nine grand on a camera that cannot shoot colour?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Personally, no, I don't think that's worth it.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the punters, my my my dear readers, um took exception to this for good technical reasons.
• 39:22
  David McClelland: Yes.
• 39:23
  David McClelland: Now I saw conversation around a Bayer filter, for example, and how when you're not shooting through a Bayer filter, you get more more information.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, and it's it's it's it's uh it's a similar principle, different process to you know, um anti-aliasing filters and things that's that sort of uh prevent moire and other patenting from happening.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you stick a filter on, it stops the moire, but it also reduces the sharpness.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you kind of you you make you know you you you pick your poison at a certain point.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, by using a specific technology to shoot a specific result, you are going to get improved fidelity, improved quality.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't dispute that, I don't disagree with that.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, for that purpose, if you're an archivist, if you are somebody who sh who works in a museum or you are you know recording material for generations to come, um we know that Hugo, for example, used a very specific tool, he used the GFX 100S to photograph the king because you know he wanted to shoot in medium format to sort of archive quality, as much fidelity as possible so that image can withstand the test of time.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: So when we're sh we're watching 12k TVs and 20k TVs, this image is going to hold up for generations to come.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I understand the principle of investing in the tech.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: But my my open question was to me, to you, to anyone else, is who buys these cameras?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it turns out quite a lot of people do.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the the readership certainly put me in my place when it came to questioning the uh the validity of these devices.
• 40:48
  David McClelland: Well, if you didn't read James' article, then there's a link to it in the show notes.
• 40:53
  David McClelland: And if you shoot in black and white and agree, or you don't, uh and you disagree with James, then let us know the photography show at futurenet.com.
• 41:01
  David McClelland: That's the photography show at futurenet.com, or hit us up on social media.
• 41:08
  David McClelland: Right, it's the time of the show where we pick our gadget of the month.
• 41:12
  David McClelland: Each month we share a knick-knack that's caught our eye, and who knows could be your next essential accessory.
• 41:18
  David McClelland: It doesn't have to be photography related, but it probably should be, given the name of the podcast.
• 41:24
  David McClelland: James, what have you got for us?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a rather delightful bit of kit with a rather baffling bit of marketing video around it.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: I know you enjoyed, David.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um it is, would you believe it is the summer of birds?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: At least it is the summer of birds according to Bird Buddy.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: So Bird Buddy is um is sort of a Kickstarter company, a Kickstarter product.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: They started this particular product, right?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's brilliant.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bird feeder or a bird bath with a trail camera built in, basically.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: So um that one of them is a hummingbird feeder.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh, what I wouldn't give to have hummingbirds in my garden, David.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, sadly.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: But essentially, so we're looking at a bird bath camera, so you can get those shots of birds coming into your garden and having a good old splash around.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um now, these are the sort of things that they sold like gangbusters over the lockdown period when you know we we were all locked in our houses with nothing else to do but find entertainment where we could find it.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: So these things were absolutely fantastic.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think most people who want a trail camera or want that sort of thing have probably already got one.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: But what made this stick out to me was the absolutely bizarre marketing video.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know if you can put it into words, David, but it was it was it was striking.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how much it told me about the product itself, but it was it was something to behold.
• 42:37
  David McClelland: It really, really was.
• 42:38
  David McClelland: Uh it's it's almost like a Eurovision song contest for Kickstarter videos.
• 42:45
  David McClelland: Uh it's it's got a lot of the vibe, and you've got this this guy who is in this strange ethereal landscape who is doing uh rollerblading around and and all sorts of gesticulations.
• 42:59
  David McClelland: And uh as I understand it, it has obliterated its Kickstarter goal, and uh yeah, there will be many, many of these making their way over to viewers.
• 43:07
  David McClelland: I mean, what what I would have to say is that I don't know about the image quality.
• 43:12
  David McClelland: Um, you know, stepping back from the kind of images that we've been talking about with with high-end cameras on the show so far today, the five megapixel camera that this uh bird buddy affords is is a step down, perhaps, but I guess it's all about the timing and the access rather than the uh beautiful quality image that you might get had you got uh a long lens and a lot of time to lie down and try and capture one of these more manually.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, and this really um was the the main thrust of the the Bird Buddy project, because it's an AI driven, or at least it is it is advertised as such being an AI powered device.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that first and foremost is not to get clever photographs, it's to identify the birds that visit your garden.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, were you lucky enough to Live somewhere where the helming birds come into your garden, it can tell you exactly what kind.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: But it takes a photograph and it's more like it uses it's it's a bit like a visual dictionary for bird watchers.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it takes the photograph, uses that to say, Oh, this is a a red-nosed whatever it is that's come to visit you today and tells you how rare it is and that sort of thing.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that provides tremendous value.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: But as you say, David, I'm not sure that the image quality, again, uh disclaimers, disclaimers, haven't seen finished product, um, anything like that.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: But a five-megapixel camera is going to be quite limited in in its scope.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, certainly with nothing other than ambient lighting outside in your backyard, going to be quite limited in scope.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it was interesting, the video didn't really depict any of the results you might expect from this camera.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first thing my my partner noticed.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: She sort of said, It looks interesting, but what what are the pictures like?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I guess you've got to use your imagination.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, the the AI bit is the most interesting bit for me.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if you get a pretty picture of a pretty bird in the process, then you know, I guess that's uh that's cherry on the parfait.
• 45:01
  David McClelland: So my gadget of the month is the Autex Phone Pro Dome Kit.
• 45:08
  David McClelland: Uh now this is uh for your smartphone, and it's it's a case with this enormous dome, about the size of a I don't know, a bowl of jelly or something that uh goes over the camera, the business end of your smartphone, but it enables you to take uh underwater images in a safe manner.
• 45:26
  David McClelland: Now I'm not gonna lie, I have in the past uh taken a uh a supposedly waterproof smartphone into the sea and got some magical pictures that 15 minutes later I was not able to get off of said phone because what whatever waterproofness had either gone from my phone or the salt water had uh had melted whatever gaskets were in place to keep it waterproof.
• 45:50
  David McClelland: Uh, but something like this uh would would certainly help there.
• 45:53
  David McClelland: Now um I've I I've worked with somebody in the past.
• 45:56
  David McClelland: He's a photographer called Rob Layton, actually based over in Australia, but he comes over to Europe and I've uh I've hosted some panels and things at uh photography and uh and and smartphone events in the past.
• 46:07
  David McClelland: He is an incredible photographer and content creator, specializing very, very much in what you would say is high-end smartphone creativity, really uh cramming every last um every last bit of know-how to turn your Commonwealth Garden smartphone into something that you can create professional images on.
• 46:27
  David McClelland: And being uh living in Australia, uh living near the coast, uh he uses domes like these to get the most incredible surfing imagery.
• 46:37
  David McClelland: Uh, and you know, he uh gets those images where you are, and video I should say as well, where you're half in the water, half out of the water, he's following surfers around, and uh it's incredible.
• 46:50
  David McClelland: It is a different world under the water, and being able to take your phone under there to get some of these images, particularly with the kind of lens effect, it's like a kind of fisheye lens, which is maybe appropriate for being an underwater uh camera.
• 47:03
  David McClelland: Uh, I I I think I think it's incredible.
• 47:06
  David McClelland: They aren't super cheap, but if you are going, maybe you've got a great holiday lined up and you're going to some Greek islands or something where the water is wonderfully clear and you're wanting a way without investing a ton of money in a in a big camera case to uh you know take uh take a big, more expensive camera underwater.
• 47:25
  David McClelland: That's a serious undertaking, then grabbing one of these domes uh I think is is probably a a really neat way of getting some some great uh great quality images uh and making them really really accessible.
• 47:39
  David McClelland: You are still looking at um between 150 and 300, well,$350, I think, depending on whether you go with a flat one or the uh or the big dome version of it, but uh you know that might be a lot cheaper than taking out uh an enormous big dedicated camera housing, which I know can run into some serious money as well.
• 47:59
  David McClelland: So, yeah, that is the uh Autex Phone Pro Dome Kit.
• 48:04
  David McClelland: Have you ever done any underwater photography?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: I have, and funny you mentioned Greek Islands because I did some uh to call it underwater photography is probably a bit grandiose, but I did take some underwater photos while I was in Greece last year, around this time last year, actually.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's an interesting proposition, isn't it?
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because yes, this bit of kit is a couple of hundred bucks.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: But the flip side, what uh what you just alluded to is it's a lot more than a couple hundred bucks to replace your phone if it gives up the ghost in pursuit of underwater photographs.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's also a couple hundred bucks compared to the price of a tough camera or the price of, you know, a a the quote unquote big boy camera with a with a housing.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: I love using my phone underwater, but it terrifies me because for the reasons you've just said, you know, there's there's such a big part of me that no matter what the IPX rating is, no matter how many people on trusted reviews have said that it's this or that, I know it's gonna be mine that goes wrong.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be mine because it always is.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: So do I want to take that risk with all my stuff that's backed up or not backed up on my phone?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: Or do I want to spend a bit of money?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, maybe money I could have spent on, you know, beer vouchers or something else, but it's gonna keep my camera safe.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um and the the other thing is with underwater photography, using a proper, again, uh quote unquote, proper camera underwater is very tricky because you're having to adjust aperture, shutter speed, ISO, and the the lighting is so challenging.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: You need a very capable camera to do so.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: Your phone is one of the most capable, all-purpose cameras, best for taking pictures at concerts, you know, where the lighting is awful, pictures at night where the lighting's awful, taking pictures underwater, your phone just knows what to do, and all you've kind of got to do is just sort of aim it, point on the bit you want to be exposed correctly, press the shutter button.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great hack for underwater photography using your phone, but with that proviso, make sure you've got some protection for it.
• 49:44
  David McClelland: Yeah, uh, it's it's a small price to pay for peace of mind.
• 49:48
  David McClelland: Anyway, that is about all for this month.
• 49:52
  David McClelland: Uh, join us next time for well, well, more of the same, I hope, because it's been great fun this time around.
• 49:57
  David McClelland: Remember, new episodes of the show will drop on the first Thursday of every month.
• 50:02
  David McClelland: And we would just love it if you could subscribe, leave a review, tell your friends, tell your camera clubs, whatever, because look, we're a new podcast.
• 50:10
  David McClelland: Every little helps, and we'd love to hear from you and maybe even build a bit of a community around the show.
• 50:16
  David McClelland: So do share your thoughts on social media or drop us an email at thephotography show at futurenet.com, on Instagram at thephotography show, and on Twitter at UK Photoshow.
• 50:29
  David McClelland: And I'm not sure if I'm supposed to say this yet, James, but we are looking to do a live recording of this podcast at the actual photography show, the in-person event at the NEC, the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham, England, where it takes place next in March 2024, from the 16th to the 19th of March.
• 50:49
  David McClelland: Now, if you if you've not heard of the photography show, or if you've not been, then well, it takes place across four days.
• 50:55
  David McClelland: We've got tens of thousands of photography professionals and enthusiasts from all around the world who join us for a veritable f festival of photography and filmmaking and video too, I should add.
• 51:08
  David McClelland: Uh, the big brands and manufacturers are there, and it's a great opportunity, a really good opportunity to get hands-on with some of the latest imaging kit.
• 51:16
  David McClelland: One of those rare opportunities you get when everyone is all under one roof, all of the big manufacturers, all the big brands.
• 51:23
  David McClelland: It's it's it's the best place really just to uh to experiment, to learn, to try out, and uh even to make purchases there as well.
• 51:32
  David McClelland: There's often some great show deals.
• 51:34
  David McClelland: Um, not only that, but we have frankly some of the world's greatest image makers there too.
• 51:41
  David McClelland: And in recent years, we've had everyone from Rankin to Bailey, uh Sebastio Salgado, who was incredible to interview Martin Parr as well on the super stage.
• 51:50
  David McClelland: You know, we've been talking on the show today about uh photographing royals with Hugo earlier on.
• 51:56
  David McClelland: Well, it's photography royalty, uh, who we hear from at the in-person event too.
• 52:01
  David McClelland: I'm not sure we've had any actual royalty visit the show yet.
• 52:04
  David McClelland: Maybe in 2024.
• 52:06
  David McClelland: Who knows?
• 52:06
  David McClelland: Anyway, you can find out more about the show at photography show.com.
• 52:12
  David McClelland: James, it's been terrific chatting with you.
• 52:14
  David McClelland: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 52:16
  David McClelland: Where can people find out more about what you get up to in the meantime?
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: The best place for anyone to come to, if you're not terribly bored by me and my outlandish opinion so far, come along to digitalcameraworld.com.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's a it's it's a it's a great repository for reviews, for news, for rumours.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: My specialty is the scuttlebutt that's going on in the industry.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: You can hear my inflammatory opinions on things like why people might or might not buy black and white cameras.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yes, I would I would ask people to come along to digitalcameraworld.com and just uh join the conversation.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: Send me an email and let me know what you think about the madness I've just been speaking about.
• 52:49
  David McClelland: Super stuff.
• 52:50
  David McClelland: Uh listen, James, thanks again for joining us, and thank you all for joining us.
• 52:54
  David McClelland: Uh see you next time.
• 52:55
  David McClelland: Bye bye, for now.