Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 831: Making Independent Films Without Hollywood or a Huge Budget with David Ash

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IFH 831: Making Independent Films Without Hollywood or a Huge Budget with David Ash · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network.
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  Speaker 2: For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: thirty one. Cinema should make You forget. You're sitting in
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: a theater, Roman Polanski.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Film Hustle Podcast, where we showed you how to survive
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: the film biz.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
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  Speaker 3: I am your humble.
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  Speaker 1: Host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
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  Speaker 1: the Film Entrepreneur How to turn your independent film into
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• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: On to today's episode, I chat with a filmmaker who
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: actually lives two lives, which I think all of us
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: because you know, in the day, we work a day
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: job and then we make films on the weekends or
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: at night or wherever he can until we can make
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: movies full time. You know, it's kind of like a
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: side gig or a side hustle or a weekend warrior
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: type thing. So usually if you're like me, you kind
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: of hide that side and you kind of make you know,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: I have two linkedins, I have two different twitters, et cetera.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: Because you don't want them to bleed into each other
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: because usually it doesn't end well. My next guest, he
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: actually constantly just goes out and says, yeah, I make
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  Speaker 3: films on the weekends. Yeah, I was in the paper
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  Speaker 3: and I also work at this company. So he's kind
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: of like the iron Man, you know, he's just at
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: the end he's, oh, by the way, I'm iron Man.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: I do all this stuff and if you don't like it, whatever,
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: But he's embraced it and it's worked very well for him.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: We're gonna talk about his new movie called Twin Cities,
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: about living a double life, and we're gonna talk about
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  Speaker 3: filmmaking and winning writing contests and being flown out to
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  Speaker 3: LA and he saw the frustration not being able to
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: make his own movies because these guys are gonna make it.
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  Speaker 3: We're gonna talk about all that stuff. Really cool interview,
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  Speaker 3: So without further ado with guests, David ash.
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I fell. Long story short, I did well enough
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: on these careering contests that they brought them out to
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: La to kind of do the La thing and meet
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: with some producers and stuff like that, and you know,
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  Speaker 4: I really realized from that experience that basically, there's no way,
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: hell there we're gonna make my movie. And that became
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: pretty apparent. Not that they didn't like it, just wasn't
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: the kind of stuff that they were interested in. So
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: from there, you know, pretty much on the flight from
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  Speaker 4: from LA, I decided I want to just learn how
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: to make films so that they actually got made rather
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: than just stacking up on my shelf here. So so
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  Speaker 4: we have an I f p autor not. It's an
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  Speaker 4: independent feature project, which is kind of a local thing
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  Speaker 4: here in the Twin Cities for filmmaking photography. And I
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  Speaker 4: started taking a lot of classes there, you know, everything
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  Speaker 4: you can take in filmmaking, screenwriting, uh, directing, you know, editing, lighting, audio,
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  Speaker 4: anything they would provide I would I would take it
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  Speaker 4: and just kind of learned it that way. And then
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: you know, got into one of the classes, I think
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  Speaker 4: it was intort of film production, and in the class
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  Speaker 4: we actually had to make a short film. So I
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: made a short film in the class, just using other
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: students in the class. We shot in about two and
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: a half hours. It cost about fifteen bucks to make it,
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  Speaker 4: and it actually got into some festivals and you know,
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  Speaker 4: played in a few of these fest not just here,
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: but you know internationally, and that was really kind of
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: the spark for the whole thing. So after that, the
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: actually the guy that was teaching that class asked if
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: I wanted to keep making films. I'm like, yeah, of
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: course I do. So he was actually also the facilities
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: director of the IP so we could get our equipment
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: for free. So from there we just started making short films.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: I think we made five or six and about a
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: year this is now probably eleven twelve years ago. Those
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  Speaker 4: did pretty well, gotten some fast and such, and then
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  Speaker 4: you know, got a little tired of just making short films,
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  Speaker 4: and then I made my first feature about ten years ago.
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  Speaker 4: It was a documentary called Love of Documentary, and we
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  Speaker 4: made the whole thing for e hightred bucks. But you know,
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: I think I let's say a thousand dollar film if
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: you ask me, but you know, definitely not high budget.
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  Speaker 4: But that actually gotten some pests as well, and you know,
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  Speaker 4: from there I've made two more much more bigger budget
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: films since then. But that was the way that the
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: shart the whole thing.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: So you mentioned you have a degree in business administration,
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: as do I. So it's kind of it's kind of
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: ironic because you and I see that's one of the
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: reasons I wanted to talk to you, because you and
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: I have a very similar path. Because I have a
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: degree in business administration. I thought about going for an MBA,
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: and I said, what the hell am I thinking? And thanks,
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: and I decided, you know, I used to work at
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: a college and they were gonna all for your free
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: masters and I decided not to go that route. And
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: it wasn't the NBA. There's a couple of different options,
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: and I thought, I don't feel like going for two
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: more years of school for a degree that I just
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: don't know if I'm going to fully use, so you know,
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  Speaker 3: but but it was it was very similar though, because
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: during college I realized that I didn't want to really
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: do go into business or anything like that. So it's,
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: you know, it's just kind of ironic because you know,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: if you got that business degree, you know, and you know,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: you mentioned that you started taking some screenwriting courses. We
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: know we're with these like online seminars.
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: Now there's there's a place to call it the it's
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: actually a literary loft. It's a place that offers just
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: writing classes all kind and one was a screen rinon class.
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: It was a night, you know, once a week for
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: probably two months. It was anything huge, and that was
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: really the only screen rinon class I had, but it
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: was it really helped to kind of understand the mchaics
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: of the film, you know, writing works and such. So
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: that was that was how I got started screenwriting as
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: far as the educational part of it.
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  Speaker 3: So so when you did take that course, you know what,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: like what were some of the things that really you know,
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: stood out for for for you for taking that course.
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  Speaker 4: You know, I think the first thing was, you know,
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  Speaker 4: screen scrappy shouldn't be four armed pages. I think that
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: was a good learning, you know, because I was just writing,
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: and Ryan Rai and the teachers like, you know, you
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: gotta pare this thing down quite a bit. We can't have, uh,
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: you know, fifty pages of this dialogue in a row.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: It was just kind of learning film language and you know,
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: three X structure, all that kind of good stuff. So
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: I was really a baby in the woods before I
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: took that class. And then I've kind of learned more
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: as I've done it since then, but it was really
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: just the basics and then you know, earning your uh
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: you know, you're ending that kind of thing. I was
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: kind of a big thing with that instructor, But that
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: was really just the start of I think I've I've
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: learned a lot since then just doing the screenwrite in
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: the filmmaking, but that was the first time I actually
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  Speaker 4: had understood you couldn't just write four or five hundred
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  Speaker 4: pages and call that a film, right.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and definitely and just to go along with that,
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  Speaker 3: it's also about you know, writing a scene, what makes
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  Speaker 3: a scene, putting all those together, actually making sure the
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  Speaker 3: screenplay actually, you know, works and it's not just basically
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: a collection of you know, someone's day as they sort
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: of just go through the minutia, you know, is I
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  Speaker 3: mean because you knew writing going into this, So yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I'm sure you knew about tension and building characters already, right.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I mean not not in the form
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  Speaker 4: of filmmaking, though I kind of, you know, I knew
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: it for more the literary side of things, And you know,
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  Speaker 4: the biggest thing just was for me, it was learning
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  Speaker 4: that you know, you can do in film with you know,
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: three or four lines and the right shots we you know,
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: would normally do in three or four pages in a
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: book for example, and just pairing everything down to and
• 8:53
  Speaker 4: something I'm still learning, I'll pay everything down to just
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: exactly what you need nothing more. So that takes a
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: long time to learn if you're not used to that,
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: and you want to just kind of expound on everything
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: at nauseam, which I learned very quickly was not the
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: way to go about it.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very true. Yeah, you know, And what I was
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: just getting at was, you know, just about coming to
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: building characters, you know, like character descriptions and stuff like that. Obviously,
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: you know, you can't put in like fitzgerald prose where
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: you know, he describes the curtains or whatever, you know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: for for a couple of pages. But you know, it's
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: about economy of words. So so you know, after it
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: was all over, did you actually have a you know,
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: a ninety year one hundred page screenplay.
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I got it down to maybe one
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: twenty one thirty, you know, and that was the script
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: I used to kind of get into the contests and such,
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: and you know, some of those contests. If you do
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: well enough, they give you like free feedback. So that
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: was a good learning as well. And you know, for me,
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: the biggest thing that helped me with Screenwrine was just
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: having to actually make the damn things myself, right, because
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: then he realized.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: If you're making these kind of amateur mistakes, once you
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: get on the set, you know it's irresponsibility to making
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: a film, and you learn very quickly, you know when
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: you're directing what you're what you're writing, that the script
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: has to be something that's directable. So that just kind
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: of diving in and starting to make films after I had,
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: you know, just only written a few scripts was definitely
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: the best education I had, you know, in my whole
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: career was just going and doing it and getting progressively
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: better at understanding what a script should should do and
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: how it should look and in terms of you know,
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: building scenes and such. And you can't replace just having
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: to do it yourself, I think any kind of film
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: film school or class. So that's my you know, my
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: biggest advice to filmmakers and folks wanting your filmmakers always,
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: you know, don't don't necessarily go to film school just
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: you know, start making a film. Even it's going to
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: it will suck, you know, the first table that polite suck.
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: But you have to just kind of learn my doing otherwise,
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: you know, you're not going to quite internalize what you
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: need to internalize in terms of how it's actually done.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of like what Robert Rodriguez says. You know, basically,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: you have like a bunch of bad movies in you
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: in you, and you have to get them out as
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: soon as possible.
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: Absolutely true. Yeah, I still have you haven't gotten out yet,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: but uh, we're getting there, you know, depending on how
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: you talk to you, I think we've we've gotten most
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: of them out.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I found the key is is to just when
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: you're first starting out, especially, is to aim low. And
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: what I mean by that is don't say like, hey, listen,
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna go out this weekend. I'm gonna I'm gonna
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: shoot a short film for ten grand and we're gonna
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: have blood and squibs and you know, blanks and everything else,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: and we need to I mean, I think that's where
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: just a lot of filmmakers tend to shoot themselves in
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: the foot.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's absolutely true, and I've said that before in
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: similar kind of interviews and hells about you know, if
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: you're having to make what you write, you realize very
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: quickly that you have to write to what you can make, right,
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: You have to write something you can actually shoot. And I,
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: you know, I learned that pretty early on. I made
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: a short film. I want to get into it, but
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: it was just an effing nightmare because I fell in
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: love with the script and then trying to make it
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: became just a vortex of pain and agony if everyone
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: involved for a very long time, and I was like,
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm never again going to write a script
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: that I can actually make very you know, reasonly underneath
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: the budget that I've got. Otherwise it's just pointless and
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: just leads to a lot of frustration and people hating you.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very true. But I think we all have
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: those stories, you know, Dave. I think we all have
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: those stories where we tried to do something a little
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: too much, too quickly, and it ended up, you know,
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: we kind of brought some people down with us. I
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: made a short film one time that literally everything that
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: could go wrong went wrong, and finally we were like,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: this was after the whole day everything was going wrong right,
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: And we had to go outside to shoot this one
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: scene and I thought, Maye, hey, listen, you know what,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: this can't go wrong, right, This cannot go wrong, Dave,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: I shit you not. It starts pouring rain like you
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: wouldn't believe, and I said to myself, I go, this,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: this can't be happening. Like I have to be in
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: bed dreaming that this is all just happening and I'm
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: gonna wake up. But no, it's it was real life, unfortunately,
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: and I just I ended up shortly then after that
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: the directors cinematography actually just like vanished and I couldn't
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: find him, and I was like, what the hell? And
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: so I I and just to you know, just to
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: surmise that whole story, I actually met him or reconnect
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: with him, probably a few years ago. When I actually
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: asked him, I said, did I do something? Was it
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: that day that did it? And he goes, well, that
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: day was bad. He goes, but the whole but He's like,
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: the whole reason was and there was a whole other
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: reason that was going on in his personal life. That
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: thankfully had nothing to do with me. I was like, oh,
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: thank god, I didn't want to be responsible for this
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: guy quitting film.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's good the intelligent. Otherwise you'd your whole
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: life thought of Hagees. That's just good.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: No, but you mentioned your short film that though everything
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: went wrong, and you know, again, I think we all
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: have those. And so as you you know, started to
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: go through, you know, deciding to make you know, more films,
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: you know, you worked a day job at the same time.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I always have. That's that's kind of I think
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: the uniqu thing where what I do is that, Yeah,
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: I didn't just you know, go into writing after I
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: got the m Yeah, I stuhally in the business and
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: I've this is probably twenty years ago, you know that
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: graduate from grad school and Peny corporate Finance ever since. So, yeah,
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: I'm currently a exec at E Colab here in Saint Paul.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: And you know, that's a pretty involving gig. You know,
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: probably fifty sixty hours a week on that side of things.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: I've got four kids ages thirteen through seventeen. That is
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: a little consuming pretty much all the time. And then yeah,
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: then doing the film stuff on top of that. So
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: it's really been you know, uh, just trying to find
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: a way to do it and just doing it. You know,
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: there's no real easy explanation for you know, making six
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: short films and three features in the last thirteen years
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: other than just willing yourself to do it because it's
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: you got a lot of it. You won't you won't
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: do it. I guess it's easy to saying say, but
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: it's it's not for but I. But I think I
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: have a pretty good example of, you know, if you
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: want to make a film, get into filmmaking. You know,
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: I mentioned some of the budgets that I worked on.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: We're pretty much peanuts, and you really don't have an
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: excuse for at least not trying it, given the way
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: the technology is now and how you can make a
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: film for cheap, and you just kind of do it
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: when you have time. And you know, I think if
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: nothing else, my story is something that hopefully can inspire
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: folks to just you know, not say I can't do
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: this because I've got a day job and I've got
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: a family, and I've got everything else in my life,
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: because you know, if I wait for that stuff to
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: not be around, I would never make a film, so
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: I'm glad I've done. It's kind of exhausting sometimes, but
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: it's also gives you energy because it makes you, you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: want to get up and keep keep pushing at it.
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: So now I'll keep doing it. You know. It's it's
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: something I love to do.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: So I wanted to ask what when? So does it
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: ever come back? Does it never? What I mean by
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: that is, do people ever like search for you online
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: and they'll say, Hey, Dave, is this you? Or something
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: like that where you're kind of well because at work.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: I imagine that happens because I mean imagine people are
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: because you know, you're the Treasury director and I imagine
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: you probably you know, people look you up on LinkedIn
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: or what have you, and I'm sure they're probably like, hey, Dave,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: is this you in the local paper or whatever.
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it happens a lot. I mean, it really started
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: happening last fall. We did our way. Most recently, Fature
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: Twin Cities actually had its local premiere here in October,
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: and as part of that, there was a big feature
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: stories in both the Minneapolis papers as well as the
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: Saint Paul paper in consecutive Sundays, and that kind of
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: reaches pretty much every in the state that reads you know,
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: so there was a lot of that, you know, at
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: work on Monday, like wow, I didn't know you did
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: this because I don't talk about it at work, and
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: I don't really it's not something that a lot of
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: folks are it doesn't doesn't come up in a lot
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: of meetings about finance and accounting, let's put that way.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: But yeah, folks, definitely at that point, we're very supportive
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: and very interested, but also very shocked that I was
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: doing this on the side addition to you know, being
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: a treasure director for Free Collapse. So it's most people
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: think it's great. Some people were just like what the
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: fuck are you doing to you know, but over almost positive.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I was expecting that a lot of
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: people would be like, hey, Dave, you know, why are
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: you doing this and this, or maybe even saying because
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: I mean that that's happened to a lot of different
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: people on this podcast where they've worked a day job
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: and uh, you know, they worked, they were like, you know, what,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: what the hell? But did anyone ever come up to
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: you and like pitch like, hey, you know I have
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: I have a friend or daughter or cousin that wants
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: to be in movies.
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I get them more like when I
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: do some panels down and then I always have one
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: personal cinve she wishly walk up to me. I had
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: one not too long ago, and it was her husband
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: always wanted to write a screenplay, and we meet with
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: them and you know, basically be his mentor. I I'll
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: talk to him. I'm not going to you know, uh,
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: going to readjust my life for for his film career.
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: But that's that's something that's pretty common and there and
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: then that work. It's more like, hey, I want to
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: do a person that wrote a book, and that's pretty
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: cool too. And you know, there's not many filmmakers in
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: corporate finance. I would just say as a rule, but
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: everyone knows somebody that does something sort of similar and
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: they want to talk about, which I think is great.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: You know, but yeah, I've had that experience quite a bit.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Actually, So have you ever actually met with somebody? So
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: if somebody has ever requested it, like hey, Dave, will
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: you just meet my husband wife or whatever, have you
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: ever ever actually sat down and met somebody?
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: Probably not, probably always figured out a way out of it.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: I was just kidding, that's going to mind. I I'll
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: have a drink with somebody, like after a film panel
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: and that kind of thing, but nothing like formal like hey,
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: please show me how to do what you've been doing.
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: But I'm always I usually just gonna send up some
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: links to some stuff and.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: You know, get in contact with the ip here, which
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: is a great place like I got started to get
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: started and throw them that way because they've got all
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: the classes there to get involved and all that. But yeah,
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: I don't generally do a lot of one one mentoring.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: I guess i'd say.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because I've noticed that comes up a lot too.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: Is the whole like, hey, would you mind meeting somebody?
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I agreed to it one time, and I think the
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: person I met was had a different idea of what
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: screen running was or is. Basically, I just started talking
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: about screenwrinning theory. I said, you know, what are your questions,
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: what do you have? What do you want to know?
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: And I did this for a friend. You know, this
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: is kind of like a professional acquaintance slash kindest sort
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: of a friend. If you know what I mean. And
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: I met with her and went with her daughter, and
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: her daughter I think was just kind of a little
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: taken aback and didn't really have any questions. I think
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: she was kind of expecting me to like, Hey, here's
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: the key to all of this, and this is what
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: unlocks all the doors.
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, that's the folks dently that I've talked to
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: think as well, is that you can just kind of like,
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: to the extent I've talked to folks, but then what
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: I do. It's generally like, you know, well, you know
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: sevent email with how he did this right, and it's like, well,
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: it kind of takes twelve fourteen years of work to
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: kind of get even to where I'm at, which is
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: not exactly you know, big budgets, big budget land. But yeah,
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: it's folks think it's just something you just kind of
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: write down on a piece of paper and you to somebody,
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, And and I once was out of writing a
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: seminar slash Picchu event and this mutual friend of mine,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: you know, can walk up to me and said to me,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: you know, hey, Dave, I want you to meet somebody.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: And this guy he was wanted to get into screenwriting,
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: and every question was about basically money, was like do
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: they still give people million dollar contracts? This and that.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: I'm like, what do you care? You've been written anything?
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Like you think you give them ten billion dollars? What
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: does it matter to you?
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's aid. Yeah. The good thing to
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: know about filmmaking is like, yeah, I think about half
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: percent actually make a pretty good living at it. Another
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: nine nine point five are just you know, doing it
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: because I love it, honestly, And most folks don't realize that,
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: you know, they watch the Oscars like a few days ago,
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: and I think that you're making films, you must be
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: real rolling and uh rolling in it. That's pretty much
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: the opposite. You just have to do it and love
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: it and hopefully something comes to at some point. But otherwise,
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: you know, I I haven't made a ton of money
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: and I'm happy with what I've done, So you know
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: that's usually the end result of this kind of stuff.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, uh and so so just continue on with
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: your with your journey, you know, after you you know,
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: we were before we get to Twin Cities. You know,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: I just want to ask, you know about any of
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: the other short films you know, before we talk about
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: twin Cities, is there anything else that that's sort of
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: really like you wanted to to to sort of like
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: talk about a discuss to focus on just because you know,
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: usually the short films, as you know, Dave, are kind
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: of like this setup for a feature film.
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a great way to get started. I would
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: definitely recommend doing shorts. I've gone some filmmakers that just
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: go directly the features, and I don't think that's the
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: way to go. I mean, a lot of these shorts
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: were five to ten minutes, you know, some of them
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: were like fifty bucks. But you know, they all played
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: a small to medium sized festivals, which is great. But
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: I would definitely go with that route. I think I
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: would have not probably done any differently than I did
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: it if I had to do it over again, which
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: was making five, five or six shorts and then kind
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: of get your your voice and what you want to
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: do with film dialed in before you tackle it features.
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: So you know, I would say, you know, do that
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: and then put it online. You know, you're you're not
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: going to find a more ruthless audience and putting something
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: on YouTube, So that's a good indoctrination into you know,
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: film criticism for you because the comments there will if
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: you can if you can stomach that, then you can
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: probably stoll making a feature film, because that's a that's
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: a great proving ground, I think, is getting it on
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: YouTube and getting some clicks. We did have one that
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: went pretty viral, a couple hundred thousand I think, pretty quickly,
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: and it was very politically oriented. And that's one thing
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: I learned about, you know, uh that kind of you know,
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: getting short films out there is if it's politically oriented,
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: that it seems that folks were really ready to jump
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: in on one side of the other on it. And
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: that was definitely the most the biggest short film we
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: had was was what they had a pretty pretty hard
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: liberal bent to it, and you could get all of
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: the all the Trump Trumpsters and and such out of
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: the woodwork to really you know, share with their friends
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: because they hated so much or vice versa. And uh,
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: you know, I guess what I'm trying to say is
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: if you want clicks, make it politically orient on one
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: side of the other. And that's kind of the the
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: MILLIU right now and online is political stuff that folks
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: just want to either attack it vaciferously and sent to
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: their friends they hated, or sent to their princes they
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: loved it. But that was my experience with short film making,
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: was that we made some films I thought were much better,
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: but they didn't have anywhere attraction of that.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: And that was the Obamacare website explanation, right.
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: No, it was actually not that one. That one was
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: out there too, but it was about it was about
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: a father talking to a son, and the father was
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: very hardcore right wing and the son was very liberal
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: and kind of setting him straight as they went along
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: the path there. And we did it for actually a
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: political action group called Live Liberal, and they asked us
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: to make the short film as myself and this other
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: guy that I mentioned that got into filmmaking, and we
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: did it just for them and then just kind of
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: took off from there. But yeah, the Obama thing was
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: also pretty full political, but this one was very at
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: a very defined point of view, which really set some
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: folks off, which was which was fine with me.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, well, you're you're at least evoking some kind
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: of emotion, right, and then that's what we're after, right.
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, for sure, So you know.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: With the Obamacare website explanation, I haven't actually seen that.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: And I actually saw that, I was like, did he
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: make a video up on the Obamacare website, because it's possible,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: But then, you know, I imagine it was probably you know,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: like a parody video.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was basically that was going back a few years.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: That was when Obama the website, if you recalled, didn't
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: exactly set the role on fire, and they had a
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: ton of problems with it. So he had this really
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: I'm kind of abimo fani, it's very earnest, kind of rose
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: garden explanation for all the things that have gone wrong
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: with it and why that was okay and it was
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: still going to be great. And what I did was
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: I subtitled that with what he was actually trying to say,
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: which was of course heavily satirized and that kind of thing.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: So it was, you know, I consider myself a level,
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: but that was pretty much making fun of a bottom
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: which went the other way. Is the other short film,
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: so I'll say it to you want to check it out,
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: But I did not know as much an he clicks
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: as the uh one of that pissed off the Republicans.
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: So so once you actually started, you know, you know,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: making these short films, you know, making them for you know,
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: fifty eighty one hundred bucks, you mentioned you made another
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: film for a thousand, the future film for a thousand,
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: you know, you know, so what was the you know,
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: the impetus there, you know, did you start with the
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: budget or did you sort of write it and say,
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: you know, hey, look it's only gonna cost a thousand
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: to make this now.
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: Actually that one actually started as a short film, and
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: it was the whole setup was was cheap to begin with.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: It was basically a documentary about a guy who you know,
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: worked in an office and he thought that God had
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: come to him and impored him to spread love and
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: joy throughout the world. So it was this kind of
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: found footage type of doc about this guy and his
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: you know, very jaded co workers and you know, kind
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: of played off the tension between that. So he had
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: kind of scenes of this person talking, which actually was
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: played with myself, and then scenes of things just going
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: horribly wrong in the office as you tried to kind
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: of impart this spiritual journey he was on. And we
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: shot it actually at if P using the equipment from
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: I f P and you know some actually professional actors
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: believe or not from the area. They were willing to
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: do it for you know, Pizza and Die Coke. And
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: he was literally like, I eight hundred bucks for eighty
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: three minute feature film. What you gotta can send me
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: if you want to watch it a link to your
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: your podcast listeners. And it actually played at some festivals
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: and it did very well one award, and it was
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: you know, people either loved it or hated it, and
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: those that loved it really loved it, and those I
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: hate it really hated it. But it was it was
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: really proving for me that I actually could make a
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: feature film, and until then it was just kind of
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: something that people didn't And you know, we started with
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: the short film and I just kept writing more and
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: more pages along the lines of this the story, and
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: before we knew we had forty or fifty minutes, I'm like, well,
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: if it's gonna be that long, let's make it a feature.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: And we just blew it out to a full arc
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: of a film. I think it was eighty three minutes
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: in total, and just did it on you know, literally
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: less than a thousand bucks.
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: And you know, once you actually were able to shoot this,
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: you know what what locations were? Were you like using
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: you used?
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: Did you I mean do you ever? Uh while while
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking of it, I'll kind of shoot myself in
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: a real question, do you ever? Did you ever shoot
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: at your office? I mean, obviously if you want to
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: answer that, you don't have to, but if that's like
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: the secret, but.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: No, we not in my office, but we shot at
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: for both a couple of scenes in Twin Cities and
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: a couple of scenes and twenty twenty one, my second feature,
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: we shot at my wife's office, which.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Is we'll be right back after word from our sponsor
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Was Minnesota Public Radio. So they were very you know,
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: accommody of that kind of endeavor, and they let us
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: shoot there for free and it was great. So we
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: shut You don't know if it's just downline for the
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: last the last two patures, so.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: They just basically do they ask you like anything like
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: the usual two questions are is their nudity? And is
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: their blood? That that's and every time I've walked up
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: locations that was the two questions. Is there violence like
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: blood or is their nudity? And and usually the answer
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: is yes, no.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: Uh, there's actually a no on both those accounts for
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: for us.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: Even better, even better, But they didn't ask.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: We could have done that. I should have probably thrown
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: that in there, you know, so no, no duty or violence,
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: but not because we couldn't.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: It's usually when when when you're asking those things they
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: did they ask you about insurance.
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: They were just incredibly lax about the whole thing. No,
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: they didn't ask about of shit. It was just kind
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: of like, we're gonna come in on a Saturday and
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: we're gonna shoot from you know, eight to five, and
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: you know, my wife came with me because she works there,
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: and didn't really ask any questions. They were they thought
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: it was great. So I think that's you got to
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: really be carefully you choose. I don't think my e
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: clad would have been that way where I work, so
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: they were just like, hey, just go ahead and do it.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: So I got lucky, very lucky, my friend.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: See, that's the thing, man, when when you have a
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: connect there and you're able to come in and professional
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: and also you know you're still in an area where hey,
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: filmmaking is you know, people haven't beat over the head
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: with it. Like a sack of oranges. You're kind of like, hey, look,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: you know it's still cool and neat, and you know
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: Dave's wife works here and this and that. You know,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: because because you know, they always say in la in
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: New York, as soon as we ask the film somewhere,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: it becomes like a huge pain in the ass and
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: they're like another thing was you know what I mean?
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: And its just it does and had that that cool
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: cache anymore. So Philly was kind of like that for
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: a while. Now it's back up to be like, hey,
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: you're you're doing something, are awesome. I want to help
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: you out.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: But uh, but that those are the things that for
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: all the all the listeners I keep harping on about locations,
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: it's it's the blood gore, the violence of the nudity.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: They sometimes ask about insurance. I mean you can always
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: sign waivers, and but I mean if they allow you
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: just to make hey, look, you know we trust you
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: and you're not gonna do anything crazy. You know that
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: that you can't beat that. It's amazing.
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah. That was actually probably the easiest location we had.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: I mean we had some that were not not easy.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: We shot a day at a hospital Er parking lot,
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: and it was I didn't have what I says, I
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: didn't have permission for it. We got permition for everything else,
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: but we were going to get it. But we needed
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: this very key scene, which is actually the last scene
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: in the film. And we shot pretty much an entire
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: day and it was all an interior of my SUV,
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: and about halfway through they came out with security and
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: they said, you know, what, what the fuck are you doing? Basically,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: and I'm not sure what what words I strung together
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: to get them to go away, but some of I
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: did it, and we just kept shooting, and you know,
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: day turned the night, and they finally came out with
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: more security dudes and probably some firearms and and such,
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: and they're like, Okay, whatever you antellis is not going
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: to work. You need to get that out of air.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: And fortunately we were done except for one shot. So
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: we went to a different parking lot where we could
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: just see the exterior shot and and patch together and
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: work perfectly. But that was probably the most stressful day
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: of shooting I've ever had, because you had, uh, you know,
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: ere our parking lot and kind of swarming security guards
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: and I knew we had, we probably could't shoot nowhere
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: else and get the same kind of shot. And we
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: had to have the scene to make the film more so,
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: you know, I wouldn't recommend that, but we did it,
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: so Lesson learned.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: Well, you know that that's amazing that you were able
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: to get him go away the first time.
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I don't recall what I said. I probably
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: pulled some I haven't. No one have pulled my butt.
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: I couldn't. I could not tell you. But they I
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: think they just scratched their heads and left and we
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: just sid okay, let's keep shooting, and we powered through.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: And we've had you know, I've had a few similar
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: shoots like that where you're just really on a tight deadline,
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: but they always know you're you're that you're supposed to
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: be there. But this was one where we just said
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: to pocket, we're just gonna do it even though we're
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: not supposed to be there, and you know it's in
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: the film, so it works out.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, like literally, you guys just rolled up into
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: that hospital parking lot and like I was, shoot here.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they had It's got like I got to I
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: mean eight or nine other er parking lots and I
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: wanted something that where we could it's hard to describe.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: I want a certain and I wanted to have like
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: the you Weregacy parking lot sign the background and to
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: make it all kind of come together. And it was
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: the only parking lot I could find that works. I
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: really wanted to to shoot there. I didn't think we'd
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: have a shot and help we asked, so we just
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: kind of just did it, you know.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: And that's gorilla filmmaking, right, You gotta just you just
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: gotta go out there and do it, you know. I
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: imagine And I'm just gonna just just food for thought, Dave.
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna imagine that when they probably approached you, they
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: probably said are you guys supposed to be here or
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: something like that. You and you probably said, oh, yeah, yeah,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: we're just finishing off and this and that, and they
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: probably went away to go check. Because I've seen that
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: happen before. They're like, oh, oh, are you guys supposed
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: to be here? Yes, And then by the time they
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: get back, you're either gone or they forgotten, or they
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: don't care anymore to even pass it up to the line.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: And and but it seems like that time they actually did.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: They Actually it was.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: Probably three or four hours later. That's the thing I
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: knew there, if they're gonna go check. I think it
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: was kind of like, well, these guys will leave pretty
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: soon anyway, we'll let this one go. But that were out,
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: you know, four or five hours later, they're probably Okay,
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: this is not cool. So I'm not I can't say
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: I'm proud of that, but it turned out great, you know.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: And that's that's that's the non Hollywood filmmaking right there.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the true indie film spirit. Matt, my friend
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: is that. That's what that is. That's what you gotta do.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: You gotta you gotta steal locations at times, and that's uh,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: you know. I I one time was talking to Scott
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: mcmannerhens film Trooper, uh, and I told him, I said,
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: I think that's the number one problem for most filmmakers
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: is getting locations. And I honestly I often said it'll
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: be a great idea and it could never work. But
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: here's my idea, Dave. It's like a hub, kind of
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: like Facebook. You could friend another filmmaker and let's say
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: you know you, you and I both lived and let's
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: just say Boise, Idaho, well I have film connections, and
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: and you know you have film connections. Well we could
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: sort of put up you put up on a on
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: a post or whatever. Hey, look this is who I
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: know at this hospital. This is what they did. They
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: let me shoot here. Uh you know what I mean.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: Like obviously you wouldn't do it to your for your
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: own house unless you were insane, but you know if
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: they if you, they would let you shoot somewhere and
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: make me, hey, this is an abandoned house. This is
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: how I got to shoot there. Blah blah blah. And
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: that's basically it almost become like this collage of sorts
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: of city by city of all the places where you
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: could where you could shoot and that are that are
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: friend friendly to filmmakers?
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: No, that's a great Yeah, yeah, that's you know someone
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: we got through the film board. They would post locations
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: online and you I'd call the film where and say, hey,
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: look that that's a film friendly place and they would
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: always say yes, but I love your idea. I mean
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: anything like that, because that's a very dawning when you
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: start an indie film to not know where you can
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: shoot it, and you know, when you don't have a
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: lot of cash to get these guys to shoot, you're
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: really just kind of begging, which I've done a lot of,
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: but you kind of just kind of learn how to
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: what they want to hear, you know, Like I said, insurance,
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: we generally do get insurance and waivers all that kind
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: of stuff, you know, and then you figure out, you know,
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: what to say to get the location. And but every
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: location I think I've had, even you know, where we're
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: supposed to be, it's it's super stressful because usually it's
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: in my case, it's been you know, a bar that
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: opens at eleven for lunch. See, you've got like four
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: in the morning until eleven thirty and then you got
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: to get in six pages or something. And every single
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: location shoot I've been on besides my wife's office, it's
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: been that kind of pressure. And that's because comes with
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: the territory. I think. You know, that's again the not
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: Hollywood filmmaking that you just somehow make it work, right.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly because I and I've been there before too, man,
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: where I've showed up on a Saturday morning at like
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: six or seven am and they're like, oh, yeah, well
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: we're going to open today at one whatever, and you're like,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: all right, well here we go. Uh right, let's get
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: let's get wrong with this bad boy. And so, I mean,
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: and I've been there, man, where people don't show up,
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: you know, people show up late or ultra late. I mean,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: you know, at some point I should just do a
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: podcast one episode why I just tell stories, but all
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: the all the horror stories I have, but I remember,
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: I mean some of these where people would show up
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: not at all and you're sitting there calling them and
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: they're like, oh, I forgot today was the thing, And
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: I'm like, well, I sent you ten thousand emails.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: How the hell did you fit this? Yeah, that's that
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: is the the most you can count on, that more
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: anything else in any filming. And somebody's I gotta show
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: up or show up late, and you know that that's
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: that's a given. I mean Twin City is another kind
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: of example of working around stuff. Have you seen the
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: film or not, But the lead character, the leak uh character, Emily,
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: is played a Bethany fort Bankley and she's awesome.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: But she was actually had like a five month old
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: kid when we were shooting. So she'd sometimes I had
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: to bring a baby on set and it would usually
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: had nanny therefore, but we'd be through halfway through a
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: really intense scene that's going well, then the baby start
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: crying and that would be the end of that. And
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: those were a few shots like that. So it was
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: always something, and it is always something when you're working
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: on this kind of level of filmmaking, and you just
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: kind of have to not get frustrated and just you know,
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: working around it somehow. But yeah, it's everything in the
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: kitchen saying for every every shoot that I've been on
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: at this level.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you mentioned Twin Cities, and I wanted to ask
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: you about that film now because that's uh, you know,
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: I know, you actually debut that film, and you know
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: it's employ in a few festivals. So I wanted to ask,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: you know, if you could just you know, take us
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: through the film, you know, give us a long life
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: you could.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So it's actually a sequel to twenty twenty one
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: of my second feature film, but it's a very kind
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: of spiritual sequel versus like an additional sequel. But it
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: picks up four years later with these characters John Emily
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: and they're married now and the Lee character Emily, as
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: I mentioned, she's actually pregnant. Someone's pregnant with their first kid,
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: and that kind of sends the husband John into a tailspan,
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: and you know, things are really falling apart and looks
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: like it's all going to kind of turn a ship
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: for the couple in their lives. And he gets this
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: cancer diagnosis which shakes him out of his his downward
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: spiral and sets him on kind of a new course
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: in life to you know, make amends with his wife
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: and to kind of find his God and go on
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: this sort of spiritual journey to to find himself. And
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: that's the basic set of the film. There is about
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: halfway through a very i would say extreme twist which
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: I generally don't give away in case folks want to
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: see the film, but it really from that point on
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: becomes a much different kind of film in terms of
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: I would say, a different kind of film. But the
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: plot kind of turns on its head and it becomes
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: a sort of a more reflective type of narrove structure.
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: That is really the reason why it's call Twins. That
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: he besides the backt that libert, it's got a kind
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: of dualistic narrative that it plays out after this very
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: jarring twist to the to the plot, and it you know,
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: it kind of gets bananas from there at that point.
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: So that's probably a much I can tell you without
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: spoiling the whole damn thing. But that's that's the basic
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: setup of the film.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: And so you know, once you actually wrote the screenplay
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: for this, Dave, you know, how did you go about
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: raising the funds to actually shoot this? Did you sell
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: finance this movie?
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: Most of it? Yeah? I mean generally what I've done
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: is I just put my an angle bonus my job,
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: and I you know, I just put my bonus in
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: it when I'm making a film, and I never really
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: use my actual uh paycheck for filmmaking. So you know,
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: for this one, I used a couple bonuses and I
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: used I got a snowbathed from the Minnesota Film Board.
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: They played for a good check of it through their
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: their rebate program, which is really an incentive to to
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: film in Minnesota, and that was that was very helpful
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: as well.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: So when when you told your wife you wanted to
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: make a film with the bonus, did she just did
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: he think you were crazy? Or or she used to
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: it like, okay, David, you know it's.
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, No, she's been great. I mean, she's got kind
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: of her own artistic endevors, so it kind of humans
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: out I want to go into that, but it kind
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: of we both have this sort of side thing. We
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: did our job. She's a hr director and has her
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: own kind of career, but then she also does a
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: lot of artistic stuff on the side that balances out
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: what I do. So we're very accomnying with each other, like,
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: you know, I want to, you know, spend some cash
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: on on this thing that I really am a passionate about.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: And it really wasn't very hard of us sell. I
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: did the same thing for my second film and she
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: was around for that as well, so I think it'd
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: be different for I was saying, well, look, you know,
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: we're gonna have trouble maybe making more ease now because
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: I got to use my paycheck for this. The fact
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: that's really just my bonus. It's kind of like, well,
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: it's found money anyway, and you know, go for it.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: So she's been great, honestly, not kind of the opposite
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: of what you might expect, but she's been fantastic. About
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: the whole thing.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I and you know that that's good that that
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: you know, she's supportive of this, and so we're people,
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: we're can people find out more about Twin Cities.
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So website is, uh just twin Cities thefilm dot com.
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: We've got our trailer on there, a ton of stuff,
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: you know, clips from the film, synopsis, a bunch of
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: reviews for the film. We've actually got I think, really
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: great reviews for the film. So there's a lot of
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: that on there, cast and crew bios, you know, all
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: the all the stuff you'd wanted on a website. More
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: is on there.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: And I will link to that in the show notes.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: Everyone at davilis dot com.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: But Dave, just just in closing, you know, I wanted
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: to ask, is there anything we can get a chance
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: to talk about that you want to just to say
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: right now, anything you want to discuss right now, or
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: or maybe it's just something you want to say to
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: put a period at the end of this whole conversation.
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess, Well two things. I mean, first of all,
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: what I'm working on now, I've been working on a
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: TV series since we finished Twin Cities production about a
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: year year and a half ago. So that's kind of
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: my next thing. So I'm you know, you know, doing
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: press for the film, but also kind of trying to
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: you know, generate some possible interest in in this. Uh.
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: I think it's gonna be a nine episode first season series.
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: I'm working on that. Hopefully we'll get some external financing
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: for and not use my bonus for that. So uh,
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: that's the first thing that's just kind of throwing at
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: that out there that that's sort of my next project,
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: and I'm really excited about it. Yeah, beyond that, I
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: think you know it, you know, I think what's interesting
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: about my story probably reason, to be honest, is because
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: I've got this whole other life besides filmmaking. So you know,
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: I do try to encourage folks that want to get
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: into filmmaking, would think that they can't because they've got
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: this you know, very consuming day job or anything else
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: in life. I think is is not going to let
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: it happen, that that's possible, and you really just need
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: to start and just do it, you know, rather than
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: you know, think about doing it or reading books about
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: doing it and and such. If you want to make
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: it into filmmaking, I would say, you know, start with
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: a two mint film and whatever you money you have
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: for if it's a ten dollars ten bucks you've got
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: laying around, make a ten dollars a film you got
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: a hundred bucks and a hund our film. But you know,
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: I would just encourage folks too, if they've always wanted
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: to get into filmmaking, just do it. And if you
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: go to my website and you go to the contact page,
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: I think that goes diroctly in my email. If you
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: are interested this kind of thing, you want to kind
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: of know more about how I've you know, been making
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: this kind of life work with filmmaking and everything else,
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: you know, definitely email me and I can help you
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: out as much as I can. But that's that's the
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: big thing I want to get across as well to
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: your audience, is that, you know, try to encourage folks
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: to to get into filmmaking that maybe are not sure
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: if they can or I have the time to do it.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just don't ask you for mentorships, right, I
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: don't ask to take you meet somebody.
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was probably it was probably overly uh you
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: know whatever about that, But I I'm happy to impart
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: whatever advice I have, But yeah, I can't do a
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: full time mentorship at this point unfortunately. But maybe someday
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: they'll be part of the explan But right now it's.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: Not well, you know, it's it's like I say, Dave,
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: when any anybody who listens to this podcast or what
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: have you asked to meet me for coffee or as
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: to meet me meet me for coffee or what have
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: you or whatever, I always say this, I said, it's pointless.
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: If you shot me an email, it would it would
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: do you ten times the benefit the meeting me for coffee, right,
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: because we both have to drive out there, gonna find parking,
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: it's gonna be crowded, it's gonna be loud.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: And what you know, if you if you send an email,
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: it's you know, you can do it from anywhere, you
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: do it on your way to work or whatever, and
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: you get a lot more from it. You know, maybe
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: not in the short short run, but over the long run,
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: if you just keep going back and forth, it's a lot.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: It's worth a lot more. Maybe even one email in
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: general is worth a lot more because you can actually
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: just detail things out.
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: And then you also have a written transcription on most
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: of what the meeting would have been. I just have
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: never or the second part is, you know, just meet
• 48:59
  Speaker 3: me at a at an event. You know, if I'm
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: ever at one of these events, the Blacklist Philly, I
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: might end up going to one of their events. I'm
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: not sure, though I haven't. I don't know. I'm kind
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: of network event out, Dave. I don't know if you are.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: But I'm just like, people invite me all the time
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: to these things, and I'm like, you know what, I've
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: done a ton of them when I was just starting out,
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: and I got burned out of them real quick, and
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: I haven't been back since.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: It's just I just sometimes feel it's a lot of
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: you know, I was one time part of a screenwriting
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: group and every meeting we had a new batch of
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: people come in, right, So it was always like bringing
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: people up to speed about what screenwriting is. And then
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: it'll be like February, and then by the end of
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: the middle of summer they're like, yeah, we've had fifty sixty,
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: seventy people come through here, but we have never gotten
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: passed like teaching the basis of screenwriting.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I hear you, man, we'll be right back
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsor and now back to
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: the show.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Serioly.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: So, Dave, where can we'll find you that online?
• 50:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I think the best place to start is that,
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: you know, twin citiesthefilm dot com. I've put most everything
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: I'm on working on in terms of the film, I
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: should say most of everything from the film was on there.
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: I haven't done the website yet for the series I'm
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: working on. That's going to come at some point. If
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: you want to go to the website for my second film,
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, and it's twenty twenty one in the
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: film dot com. If you want to see that film.
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: We actually got distribution for that film and it's on
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: Amazon Prime. You know, they can see that for free
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: if you have Amazon Prime. Just go to twenty twenty one,
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: put that in search engine for Amazon and should take
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: you to the film. We got distribution for Twin Cities
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: as well, so that'll be on Amazon later this year
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: and hopefully a few other paper places besides Amazon, So
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: hopefully that'll be out there, you know by fall. I'm
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: guessing yeah, beyond that, you know, Yeah, if you want
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: to shoot men, email it's David at ash seven at
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: gmail dot com. Happy to to you know, tell you
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: whatever wherever I know, I'm happy to send them along
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: as well, so that'll get you started. But again, if
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: you go to Twin Cities of the Film dot com,
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: I've got probably most of my stuff is on on
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: that page that website. It's a it's a pretty pretty
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: starch side at this point.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: Cool Dave. It's been so great avenue on man yea,
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: and yeah, I look forward to check out your stuff.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: Again, we have a very similar path. That's why I
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: wanted to have you on. And again, best of luck
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: to you, my friend, and I will talk to you
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: very soon.
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks so much for having me down. I really
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: really appreciate it, so thanks a lot.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: head over to the show notes at any film uncle
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: dot com Forward Slash eight thirty one, and if you
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: have it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: really helps us out a lot. Guys, Thank you again
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: so much for listening to guys, as always, keep that
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: hustle going, keep that dream alive, Stay safe out there,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: and I'll talk to you soon.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: indiefilm hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: F I L M h U S T l E
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: dot com