Latest / Yaron Brook Show / Soviet Union in WW2: Ally or Enemy? | Yaron & Nikos Dialogues

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Soviet Union in WW2: Ally or Enemy? | Yaron & Nikos Dialogues · Yaron Brook Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, under the metal principles out.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Any indivisional fundamental principles. This is the show. Everybody, welcome
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: to the new you run a n Coast Dialogues new show.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I'm excited. I'm really looking forward to this. We're gonna
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: be doing this every week on Sunday, three pm East
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Coast time, so you know, set your I mean, if
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  Speaker 2: you still go to church, drop it, there's no point
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  Speaker 2: in that anymore. This is where you need to be
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: every Sunday at three pm East Coast time. So uh,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: and we're gonna be covering once you you tell us
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: what we're gonna be covering nicos in the weeks to come,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: like what, what kind of.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Time, what kind of top many topics on the that
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: we can use, but our general principle is this, We're
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: gonna tell some interesting stories, all of which, though has
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: some relevance for today. So it's not history for history sake.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: We're not gonna talk about the fall of Constantinoupole. Interesting story,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: not very relevant today. We're all gonna cover things I don't.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Know versus Christianity. I mean, we might find some relevance,
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: but okay, okay.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Twenty ninth of May you know what the topic will
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: be the fall of Constantinoupole.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so today, for example, we're going to talk
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: about Victory Day, not Victory Day itself, but because it
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: was Victory Day.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: You saw all the things about the parade in.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Moscow, the story that the Rossians are saying that basically,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: we did all the heavy lifting in victory over the Nazis,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: therefore you should respect Russia. So we're going to untangle
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: and see how true this is and what was the
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: role that the West played in Soviet Union survival and
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: victory in World War Two.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: So so yeah, so we're gonna be talking about history.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: We're gonna be talking about that's relevant. We're going to
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: talk about intellectual figures, intellectual movements. You know, Nicos is
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: an expert on the far right and the far left
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: or the far stuff. So we're gonna be talking a
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: lot about fall left and fall right and and and
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: intellectual movements of pseudo intellectual often movements like that and
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: and you know, sadly very relevant to today. So we're
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: gonna we're gonna be spending quite a bit of time
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  Speaker 2: on that as as well. All right, Now, the way
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• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Oh maybe let's start because with the idea of Victory Day,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: because it strikes me that the Russians and the Soviets
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: before them made a big deal out of this, right,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: describe a little bit, what you know, how the Soviets
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: are presented and the Russians now present Victory Day, and
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: what this story is when it comes to when it
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: comes to the past. And I'm going to try to
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  Speaker 2: avoid being the interviewer. This is meant to be more
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: of a discussion, but I might fall into that habit.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you how I experienced Victory Day as
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  Speaker 1: a communist. Whenever I would hear the term Red Army,
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  Speaker 1: the sentence would be filled by the words liberator of Europe, red,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: liberator of Europe. So the story is that Europe was
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: occupied by the Nazis, obviously, and then the Red Army
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  Speaker 1: liberated Europe. By the way, there were also the Allies
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: that attacked from the west, but this was marginal. The
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  Speaker 1: effect that the Allies had or the victory against the
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Nazis was marginal. And the claim was made by presenting
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  Speaker 1: the losses that the Soviet suffered, and this is true.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: The Soviet suffered something like twenty seven million losses.
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  Speaker 3: Twenty seven million.
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  Speaker 1: And actually the funny thing is that initially even the
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Soviets did not want to present that number because it
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: was such a crazy number that it would raise questions like,
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  Speaker 1: how did you manage to lose twenty seven million people?
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  Speaker 1: Of course the Nazis were monstrous in the occupation of
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  Speaker 1: the Soviet Union, but twenty seven million people, and to
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  Speaker 1: put this into perspective, this is ninety times the losses
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  Speaker 1: of the Americans ninety nine zero.
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  Speaker 2: And what was the population of Ussia to say, some two.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Hundred toward three hundred million approximately, but.
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  Speaker 2: Really a significant large population of this today.
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  Speaker 3: Well that makes sense because it was not one country.
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  Speaker 1: Add to this Ukraine, yeah, Lithuania, all these occupied territories
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  Speaker 1: that were called Soviet republished anyway. So the story was
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  Speaker 1: that through this blood and this sacrifice of the Red
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  Speaker 1: arm and of the Soviet people, Europe was liberated.
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  Speaker 3: And of course you understand the importance of the esthetics.
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  Speaker 1: There is this immortal photo the Red Army putting the
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  Speaker 1: flag in Raichstag. Obviously staged, but what an iconic photo, right,
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  Speaker 1: which interestingly didn't happen during the victory day.
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  Speaker 3: This flag was raised I think on the thirtieth of April.
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  Speaker 3: But you have the story and you have.
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  Speaker 1: The symbolism the Red Army through sacrifices liberated Europe three dogs. Therefore,
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  Speaker 1: then it has a right to stay there and protect
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  Speaker 1: half of Europe from future threats of fascism or wing
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  Speaker 1: wing of its ally capitalist which is ready for new
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  Speaker 1: wars and for new barey goats endeavors.
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  Speaker 2: And is there any discussion. Was there any discussion about
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  Speaker 2: the fact that the Soviet Union was, you know, participants
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  Speaker 2: in the beginning of World War two, that it was
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  Speaker 2: actually an ally of the Nazis. There's that, you know,
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  Speaker 2: It's stunning to me how few people know that history.
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  Speaker 2: When you were talking about World War two, Hitler started
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  Speaker 2: it right, and that's it. Period.
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  Speaker 3: So let's give sala.
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  Speaker 1: We give some background to people when we say that
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  Speaker 1: there was so most people will think, come on, what
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  Speaker 1: do you mean they were allies with the naz Germany Is.
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  Speaker 3: That's crazy. They had a deal like them, a lot
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  Speaker 3: of re better.
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  Speaker 1: But no, they were literally each other's best allies in Europe.
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  Speaker 1: So let's give some background. We're in ninety thirty nine.
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  Speaker 1: Hitler is ready to launch the war. He has a problem, though,
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  Speaker 1: and the problem is a I don't want to be
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  Speaker 1: on a double front war. On the one side, I've
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  Speaker 1: got Poland, maybe the Soviet Union on the other side.
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  Speaker 1: The Friends and the British have told me that they're
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  Speaker 1: gonna attack me if I attack Poland. But his number
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  Speaker 1: one problem is resources. He needs things like oil. He
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  Speaker 1: needs the resources that you need to launch to launch
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  Speaker 1: a war. Now Stalin is also in a need to
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  Speaker 1: a avoid war because Soviet Union at this point is devastated,
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  Speaker 1: and it's devastated mostly from the internal parts of Stalin.
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  Speaker 1: So Stalin managed to the great or to decapitate the
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  Speaker 1: Red Army, like picture what the Israelis have done to
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  Speaker 1: the Iranians.
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  Speaker 3: Stalin did it to his own knights, his own night.
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  Speaker 2: He was killing generals and commanders of the Red Army.
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  Speaker 3: Yes end the of the party.
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  Speaker 1: So the situation was so bad that there were Soviet
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  Speaker 1: embassies abroad that they didn't have an ambassador or a
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  Speaker 1: secret service at se for months because they were all
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  Speaker 1: pets that literally didn't have any people.
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  Speaker 3: So Stalin also had.
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  Speaker 1: A knife for the Baltic States, and why not push
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  Speaker 1: further to Pollard. So Hitler looks at Stalin, and Stanley
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: looks at Hitler, and they say, wait a minute, maybe
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  Speaker 1: we have some common interest here.
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  Speaker 3: So In nineteen thirty nine, Stalin, as a.
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  Speaker 1: Gesture of good will to Hitler, first fires his foreign
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  Speaker 1: minister Litvino, who was a Jew.
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  Speaker 3: He paid all the Jews from his foreign minister.
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  Speaker 1: And then the unthinkable happened the Nazi Soviet The Nazi
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  Speaker 1: foreign minister Ribbentrop flies to Moscow. He meets with Stalin himself.
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  Speaker 1: What an honor right. Not many people would meet with Stalin.
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  Speaker 1: And they decide that a they would have a trade deal.
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  Speaker 1: To put it in simple terms, Soviet Union becomes the
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  Speaker 1: number one on the number one provider of war material
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  Speaker 1: to Germany, and they have a secret deal that says
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: that Soviet Union can have a free hand in the
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  Speaker 1: Baltic countries and they can get half of Poland. So
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: they decide to divide Poland and they literally meet in
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  Speaker 1: the middle. So now Hitler has a free hand to
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  Speaker 1: start the attack, the attack against against Poland.
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  Speaker 3: But it's not only that they attack Poland.
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  Speaker 1: In the first two years of the war, the Soviet
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  Speaker 1: Union has invaded did equal amounts of countries with Nazi
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  Speaker 1: Germany seven countries, Finland, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania, parts
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  Speaker 1: of what today would call Moldova, and parts of Manjuria.
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  Speaker 3: So initially Soviet.
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  Speaker 1: Union and Germany are on the same side, and the
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  Speaker 1: biggest what if, perhaps in the history of the twentieth century.
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  Speaker 1: In the winter of ninety forty, the Foreign Minister of
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  Speaker 1: Soviet Union Molotov, flies to Berlin.
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  Speaker 3: We have surreal scenes the Nazi orchestra playing the International.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: And he goes there with an official proposal for the
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  Speaker 1: Soviet Union to join the axis.
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  Speaker 3: Can you believe how history would be different today?
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  Speaker 1: When we're saying the axis, most people think nat Germany,
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  Speaker 1: Mussolini and maybe Imperial Japan. If that deal would have
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: worked out, the axis in our memory today would be
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  Speaker 1: Nazi German.
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  Speaker 3: Fast Italy and Soviet Union.
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  Speaker 1: As it usually happens with tags, they disagree on how
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: they will share the loot. So Stalin wants Bulgaria, he
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: wants to go to Iran, he wants a free hand
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: in Iraq. Not to cut a long story sort, Hitler
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: is very angry with Stalin's and reasonable demands, so in
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: his mind he decides, okay, this affair is not going
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: to last for long, and when Molotov lives, he already
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: plans for the upcoming attack to Soviet Union, which took
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: place six months later, as people know it Operation Barbarosa.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, one would wonder how it evolves
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: if he joins, if the Soviet Union joins, that alliance
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: that complicates will do two quite a bit and prolongs it.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean it makes both both the American
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Pacific and Lanic funds much more complicated and much more difficult.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: But as we know, thugs don't get along very well
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: and don't don't survive in alliance for very long. I mean,
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: the Japanese and the German survived because they were so
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: far away from one another. And Mussolini was it was
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: clearly the you know, he wasn't he wasn't a partner.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Mussolini was literally a liability for the Germans, literally liability.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: He was so bad.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, it would be comical if it wasn't tragic.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: He enters the war with France basically a few days
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: before the war is over. He attacks Greeks, He gets humiliated,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: he has no positive contribution to the war. He's mostly
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: a nuisance because he's complicated. Hitler plants and then Hitler
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: has also to commit powers to commit military.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Forces in Italy to save to save Mussolini, and.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Battolini is not an idiot counted to what we haven't
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: seen the movie and stuff. I mean, he's not a
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: he's not dumb, but it comes across as one.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Mussolemi basically has how young kids call is these days,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: a fear of losing out. He knows that he should
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: not enter the war. He knows that there's nothing to
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: be earned. But you know, this is how also how
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: fastists think. He says, I've given my word of honor,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: and also we know that war is the pinnacle of
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: human experience. How can there be a war and we
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: are sitting out eating spaghetti? Literally he was he didn't
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: like spaghetti because the idea was this is like two bulls.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: White makes you weak. So that's why.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: So Mussolmi knows we should en join the war, and
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: yet he joins keep noting people being a far right
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: war is a pinnacle of experience. Literally makes you stupid
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and leads to tragedies.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Yep, absolutely absolutely so, Apperation Bobosa, nineteen forty one. Many
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: considerate Hitler's biggest error in World War Two. He probably
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: could have held that the Eastern Front at Bay for
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: a long time there's no reason to believe Stalin was
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: going to attack him, right, you know? So what what's
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: the calculation? Why where is Hitler do this? What is he?
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Is he not afraid of the West? Is he not
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: afraid of the Western firm?
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: So what happens is that first of all, Hitler wants
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to persuade Britain to stop fighting. And in a very
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: complicated way of thinking, is how am I going to
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: persuade Chertil that this war is futile? Certile probably hopes
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: that at some point I'm going to start a war
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: with the Soviet Union.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: That's why Churtile is not giving up.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Therefore, what if I start, in my own terms that
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: the war with Soviet Union, I defeat them quickly, and
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: now Chertil has to surrender. That's the one thing. The
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: other warry that he has is again the big problem.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: The German phases his resources, and the main provider of
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: resources is oil from Romania, a place called the PSD
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: or however they pronounce it, and for things like Nikkel
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and staff Sweden. Now Hitler sees Stalin in his words
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: like Stalin has taken Finland in a debuckle of a
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: war that the Soviets lost like it was basically the
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Ukraine of the time, the complete embarrassment that just want
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: it through seer force and numbers. So Hitler says, Stalin
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: is near my sources in the Scandinavia, and Stalin is
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: creeping in also in the Balkans, so he's going to
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: cut me out from my energy sources and my raw materials,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and then I'm in trouble.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: So this is why he attacks Soviet. You know, he
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: does not.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: He does not trust that Stalin is going to be
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: a loyal loyal ally, so this is why he decides Barbarosa.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Obviously it's a huge it's a huge risk, and yeah,
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's a turning point in the war.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: So it appears in the early days of Babosa that
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: it's going to be successful. I mean, the Germans sweep
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: through the reminent of Poland and into Russia, into mainland
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Russia and un you know, the getting close to Moscow. Uh,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: and it looks like, you know, they'll do something Napoleon.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I guess Napoleon did take Moscow, but it couldn't hold
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: on to it. But they will, they will achieve what
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Napoleon achieved, at least in a short run, and yet
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: they are held back and at this point, at this point,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: is is Moscow getting any help from the United States
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: at this point.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Immediately the day after the Soviets the Nazis attacked Soviet Union,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: the West flips like that, having said that, Actually it's
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: even worse. Notice that that England, the Great Britain, and France,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: when Poland is attacked, they declare war to Nazi Germany,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: but not to Soviet Union.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: And they have a stupid justification.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: It's sounds like the treaty says that we will help
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Poland if it gets attacked by a European nation, well
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: in Soviet Union, even in European nations.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: So they find some stupid excuse and they don't declare
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: war to Soviet Union.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Now the day Soviet Union is attacked they make a
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: U turn and Churchill I got his statement here. I
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: won't read it, but it's very interesting if people can
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: find it. He basically says, look, all these years have
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: been telling you comm in sacks, forget all this.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Now we have to Anyone who fight the Nazis is
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: our friend.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: It's even worse with the Americans, because the Americans rush
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: to help the Soviets with the landless program, and they
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: help the Soviets in conditions that are much better and
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: friendlier than the conditions.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: They gave to the British. It's basically, what do you
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: want everything?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Tanks, war material, engines for aircraft, engine for trains, food,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: and they don't request anything back. They don't even request
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: please help us with the Japan. So another very important
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: moment is seventh of December ninety forty one. Obviously the Pearl.
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: Harbor attack, and this is the biggest triumph for Stalin.
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: Stalin had made already to deal with the Japanese, and
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: now he can be. He can be he has peace
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: of mind that Japanese are going to war with the Americans.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: And he tried to nudge the japan like, hey, you
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: know the Americans and the British, they are the imperialist.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: There's a very interesting discussion when the Japanese Foreign minister
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: goes to Moscow, like it's as if an objectivist had
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: written this dialogue. The Japanese says to Stalin, look, we
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: know who the enemy is. It's the capitalist, their egoists,
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: their materialist. And he says sudding like, look, imperial Japan
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: is not that different from communism. We know, it's we
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: are about sacrifice.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: We are it's as if it was written by you know,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: by an objectivist screenwriter.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, it goes to the video you made recently.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: You made a video on and left and right. You know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: it's fascism left or right, and the point is what
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: differences make They're all the same kind of collectivistic status, right.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So Stalin has managers to have this perfect situation.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: The Americans give him very generous support. He doesn't have
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: to do anything in return. He actually he's so loyal
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: to the Japanese that during the war there are American
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: pilots that have to fall in Soviet soil because for
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: various reasons around the Pacific Front, and Stalin arrest is
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: people and puts them in concentration camps. So he doesn't
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: even give this to the Americans, like, hey, you know
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: where allies some people were stranded on my soil to
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: take them back. Anyway, So this very important thing happens
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: in December, the Pearl Harbor attack. So then Stalin can
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: push a lot of his armies from the East towards
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the West Front, towards the defense of Moscow. By the way,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the situation in Moscow was so bleak that they even
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: took the body, the dead body of Lenin and they
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: seeped to the iste because they were expecting day after
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: day that Moscow will fall. The Nazis could literally see
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: with it by not large the Kremlin. But this output
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: of support from the West and this output of troops
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: from the East means that the Soviets can defend Moscow.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Again, the importance of esthetics and optics.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: In the anniversary of the October Revolution, which is in November,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: because of the new calendar, they managed to have a
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: parade because the weather is such that German airplaces cannot fly,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: and this is the signal that we're still here and
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: now is the time for the counter attack. So the
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: worst days are over for the for the Soviets, the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Germans by not winning immediately, it's as if now they're
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: in a weird.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Situation that not winning is losing.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Although they have successes in the battlefield, not winning quick
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: in Soviet Union means now they're boked down and now
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: we're talking about a different war.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: So studying I think in nineteen forty two, I mean
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: some aid that gets there in nineteen forty one, but
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: it's relatively minor. But in nineteen forty two, I mean
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: there's huge quantities. I mean it's just massive. I looked
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: at some of the numbers, massive quantities of age that
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: and they you know, one of the things they really
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: wanted trucks to move, troops to move, our telerasion to
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: move everything. And huge quantities of this coming from the
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: United States. I mean, one of the things that appreciate it.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: It's pretty amazing. The United States is fighting a war
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: on two fronts. They're building aircraft carriers and destroyers, and
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: then they're building airplanes and tanks and for themselves, and
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: then they're doing the same for the Brits, and then
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: they're doing the same for the Russians. And the United
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: States is such a powerhouse at this point that it
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: can basically arm all parties to this war out of
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: out of the American industrial base. And you know, is
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: when you can pick capitalism to communism, and people always think, oh, communism,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: they're collectivists. They can they can fight wars, they can
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: get things together, right, they can coordinate. You just look
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: at World War two and you look at the industrial
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: capabilities weapons wise, of Germany, I'm sorry of USSR and
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: the United States, and it's just it's just no competition.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: There's no there's this crazy stuff artistic that you have
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: to check it out because the others is unbelievable. At
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: some point, the Soviets have more aircraft of one type
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: of American aircraft than the Americans themselves. So to put
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: it in very simple terms, how much aid the Soviets
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: got from the United States. We gave to Stalin more
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: than double than what we have given to Ukraine. So
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: in today's money, it's something like three hundred billion of dollars.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And the interesting thing is, I mean, maybe it's not
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: that interesting if you know the character of the two regimes.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: The Brits were paying till two thousand and six were
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: paying back to the Americans the lend lease. The Soviets
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: only returned six percent of that amount because they said, look,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: we lost all these people.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: This was repaying it.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: It's like today we talk about it we need to
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: have feet on the ground, and that's actually true. The
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Red Army where the fit on the ground in the war,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: in the war against the Nazis. So they said, yeah,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: you know, you gave us staff but now we get
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to keep it. And what then becomes even more horrendous
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: to think is that through these tracks that you described,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: through the tanks, through the trains, this is how the
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Red Army managed to march and to enslave half of
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Europe and half of Asia.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Without lent lease.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Maybe maybe they would have managed to defend against the
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Nazi attack, maybe, but they would never have been able
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: to storm half of Europe and half of Asia. The
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: occupation of half of Europe and later we can talk
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: about Asia was very general sponsoring from the US. But
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: just to stillman the case, the Americans thought that we
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: need to have these we need to make sure the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Soviet stay in the war.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: It's not so much whether they win or they lose.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: They were afraid that if they can't a deal with Hitler,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: then we're in trouble.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: So it's a bit cynical, what I'll say.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: But quite often these days we hear people saying, look,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: let's keep putting money to Ukraine no matter what happens.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: At least they keep fighting and Russia is losing morall, it's.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Not the same.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: But this was in the mind of many people in
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the US that at least they are. The Nazis are
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: bleeding there, and even if there's no strategic thinking, the
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: fact that they're bleeding there is important.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: And indeed they blend.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Eight out of ten of Nazis who perished in the
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: war perished in the Eastern Front, eight out of ten.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's no question that. I think there's no
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: question that if without that aid the casualties for the
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Americans on D Day, and as the Americans sayenter you
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: would have been much larger. The Nazists could have put
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: a lot more troops into the Western Front and slowed
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: down progress significantly. So it did save American lives.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: In essence, Yeah, it did save American American lives. Now
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: this is an interesting, of course calculation. If you add
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: how many Americans fairist in Korea and Vietnam, I think
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: it's something like one hundred thousand, yep, then you.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: Can start asking was it worth it?
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: But we can we can discuss the Asian Front because
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: it was a different story, equally sad, even perhaps even
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: sad their story. But anyway, this is how the Red
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Army finds itself standing on its feet and being able
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: to counter attack against against the Germans.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: So what Yeah, I know famously said that if with
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: then without the land lead, she was of course objected
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: to any kind of corporation was stolen on anything. And
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and you know, she believed that without the land lease,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: the Russians and the Soviets would have bled each other,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: you know, into kind of a stalemate, but they would
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: continue to fight each other and bled each other without
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: any either side necessarily winning. What's your estimate of what
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: would have happened on the ground without the landleash. I mean,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: it's all speculation, but.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: It's all speculation. But here's one thing which is not speculation,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: even with the land lease. With the land lease, there
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: are back channels between the Nazis and the Soviets thinking
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: about cutting a deal. And many people wonder how come
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Hitler and some of his generals still fight while the
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Allies are basically kilometered away from the bank. Because Hitler
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: keeps hoping that at some point he can split the
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: alliance and he can get the West to fight the Soviets,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: or maybe some of his staff think that they can
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: get to the.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Soviets to fight to fight the West.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: So there was always this suspicion, what if we have
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: another Molot of everybentrops.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: So it's not just the possibility what would.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Have happened if the Russians have collapsed and Hitler would get,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: for example, to towards the Cafcassus the energy resources. But
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: another possibility is what if they would have resumed under
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: different circumstances. They're alliance, so Hitler might have said, Okay,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you can get big area, you can get Iran, you
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: can get Iraq, you can even get Turkey.
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Let me have the western Europe for example, and things
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a counterfunctional that is more complicated because
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you don't only have to think what would happen in
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: the battlefield, you'd have to think what would happen with
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: back channel deals.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: So the outcome of all of this is that, you know,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: the Russians managed to really speed through Europe. I mean,
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: at some point the German army is literally collapsing, and
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: while obviously twenty seven million ussions die, so they're still dying,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: but they're still fighting going on. But basically they have
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: a fast track to Eastern Europe and managed to occupy
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: you know, most of eastern Europe and then lay claim
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: to it. So tell us a little bit about what
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: is happening during this period in the East.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, So the key moment is Operation Bagradion, which is
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: the key battle, let's say in today's Belarus. So while
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: the West Allies are operating on the West, the German
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: armies of the East are engaged in their most crucial battle.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Because it's after that battle the German army of this
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: is collapsing. So what happens then is their marching back.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: They try to.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Build defensive lines in Hungary, in Poland, but these defensive
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: lives are collapsing. So the truth is nothing can stap
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: the Red Nothing stup the Red Army after that, and
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the Germans now have to rush to have maybe a
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: last stand or something within German soil or somewhere in process,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: somewhere somewhere in somewhere in Poland. Now again, how can
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: the Red Army storm this Europe because of their mechanized capabilities.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: To put in simple terms, there are two ways you
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: can march in the war.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Through via riding horses, which is how many Germans were
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: when they attacked the Soviet Union, or if you have trucks,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: tags and trains, and the Soviets have a lot of trucks,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: trains and tangs how to a big extent due to
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the assistance of the West through land least, and know
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: what's very scandalous. I can understand maybe supporting the Soviets
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: untill let's say Stalingrad, but why would you still give
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: them lend liz in ninety forty three? In ninety forty three,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: it's clear that Soviet Union is not going to collapse. Yep,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: why do you keep giving them lend lise in ninety
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: forty four? Now there is an answer that you want
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: them by your side in the war against Japan, which
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: they cannot attack because they still have a deal with Japan.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: But yeah, the lent list is a scandal, not just
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: on the early stages where it's understandable, but it's scandalous
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: to think why they keep why they're literally sponsoring, why
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: they're literally fueling, literally fueling.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: The advance of the Red Army.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Let's say, sorry, one more thing, wherever the Red Army goes,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: it's a humanitarian tragedy. You've heard about the sexual abuse
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: against the women. It's not only that, it's perhaps the
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: biggest looting in his against people who were not just
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: people who were collaborators of the Nazis against anyone who
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: was a bourgeois, who was productive. Whole factor is looted
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and seeped back to Soviet Union without any standard of
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: right or wrong, or it's just everything is there for
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: the taking.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: By the way factor, the same thing is happening in
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Ukraine RD right, I mean, stud in the Ukraine is
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: being stripped of all its machinery and equipment, and everything
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: is going back to Russia. And of course the people
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: they're taking, the kids, they're taking children, you know, Russia
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: short and people, uh and and they're eluding everything. So
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: according to what I you know, So according to this,
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: the US ultimately supplied over four hundred thousand trucks and
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: jeeps to the Russians, thousands of aircraft, thousands of tanks,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: locomotives real cause, and millions of tons of food and
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: petroleum products during the war.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: And there's one sorry, there's one more element here. How
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: do you see these things to the Soviet Union? It's
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: through very dangerous roots. Either you go, I mean, if
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: you pick them up, you literally have to go above Scandinavia.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: This is a sea that sailors don't want to say
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: in peacetime.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Imagine German u bot or you have to go let's say,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: from the other side through the Pacific, which is a
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: war theater with the Japanese. So just delivering that stuff
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: to the Soviets was very difficult and it cost a
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: lot of it cost lives, it costs manpower.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: To the United States.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: So to what extent do you think the US attitude
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: was the Soviets was this positive to our extent? Do
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: you think that was caused by kind of the general
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: wedding of America during the nineteen thirties. You know the
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: fact that the New York Times bureau chief in Moscow
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: turns out to be a KGB spy, and you know,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Roosevelt establishes diplomat relationships with the Soviets after they had
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: been there was no deployment relations between the Revolution and
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: I think the early nineteen thirties, and of course we
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: know the intellectuals in America, particularly in New York and
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: on the coast, were quite sympathetic to communism. To what
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: extent do you think that impacted Roosevelt's calculus?
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Well, first of all, Roosevelt is himself to blame, and
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: the blame should start from the thirties. In nineteen thirty three,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: when Roosevelt comes to power, he says, why haven't we
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: got a proper recognition of Soviet unity? He says, all
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: this is a misunderstanding. Roosevelt says, what, Just put me
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: on the phone with someone from Russia with me that
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: we'll make a deal.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: So he thinks, reminds me of somebody put me in
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: the phone with who can carry deal.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Just put me on the phone and we're going to
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: have a deal.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: So he's a trumpet before before Trump, Now you could say, okay,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: who cares if you recognize Soviet Union. Well, the thing
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: is that now that you have a formal recognition, you
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: have US embassies and consulates, sorry, Soviet embassies and consulates
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: in America, which are basically spy rings.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: They're the headquarters of spir rings.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: So within years you have hundreds of Soviet spies working
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: within virus sessilms of the US administration. Later this will
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: become important because they will steal a lot of engineering
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: secrets for their fighters, and eventually, of course everyone knows
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: also they would infiltrate the Manhattan Problem program. Ninety thirty six,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: he appoints a guy called Joseph Davis as ambassador in Moscow.
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: You have to clarify that this guy was not a spy,
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: because he was such a useful leadio that if you
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: see what he did, you'd say, this guy has to
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: be a spy. Surprisingly, he was not a spy. He
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: was those such a.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Useful lydio for the Soviet so FDR was surrounded by
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: people who were very, very friendly towards the general idea
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: of Soviet Union or the idea of Soviet Union as
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: an ally, and they are whispering on Roosevelt's ear to
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: the point where towards the end of the war from
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: forty three, when you have this big zammits, Stalin is
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: afraid that Churchill and FDR are going to gang up
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: on me.
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: But the opposite happened.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Roosevelt is having back room charts with Stalin telling you
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: know what, and it's so cynical and horrible.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: I think in the Tehran meeting he.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Tells Stalin, hey keep quiet now about Poland because I
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: have elections and there are a lot of Polish Americans.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: After the lengths will figure out Poland.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: So things that I mean are to the border line
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: kind of at least moral triason.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: So this is the meeting in which they are basically
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: divving up Europe.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: No, that's a meeting between Cherchi and Stalin. So in
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: every meeting you basically have a tragedy. The worst tragedy
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: is the most famous meeting in Yalta, by the way,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: to see how Stalin is playing all these guys. At
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: that point, Roosevelt is basically bound in a chair, and
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: he gets him to travel half the world to go
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: to Yalta because Talin doesn't want to get on an airplane,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: and he flies also thirty there. And that's where there
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: are two big treason's happening. The one is the treason
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: of Poland. They're basically trusting Stalin. Stalin promised us that
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Poland will be democratic, no problem. By the way, history
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: has been so unkind to Chamberlain Neville chablet haha, Chable
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: believe the Hitler.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: What a stupid guy. Chaberlet did not believe Hitler, but
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: he had his heart the time. That's another discussion. But
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Churchill trusted Stalin.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: How is this less ridiculous than Sumberlain trusting Hitler?
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: And the second big glander?
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: However, you want to call it is literally begging Stalin
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: come join us in the Asian in the Asian Front
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: now again to steal man the case. At that point,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Roosevelt is not sure if the atomic bomb will work,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: so he wants to find anyone who is willing to
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: join him in the fight against the Japanese.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: So he gets Stalin involved in in Asia.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: So in one summit, you have giving Poland to Stalin
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: and paving the ground for Stalin eventually getting China and
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: less importantly in North Korea.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and as a consequence of Vietnam and the spare
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: of communism throughout throughout the area of Asia. So this
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: is the yourta is forty four, right, So to.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Put them in one by one. So the most important
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: is Yalta. Yalta is just before FDR. FDR dies, So Yalta, Okay,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: I'll have to check my notes. It's February ninety forty,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: February ninety forty five, and the first meeting is Tehran
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: is November ninety forty three.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: So this is not a bad moment, right.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: We have almost more than almost two years starting playing
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: in big meetings, in big meetings, the.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Western, the Western the Western.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Leaders and you know, just to give a sense of
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: the extent of which they were willing to kind of
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: cover up Europe. I mean famously, Patterns Third Army, you know,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: reaches the border with Czechoslovakia in April of nineteen forty
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: five and the Soviets and soviets't haven't gotten a yet
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: any any telegraphs Eisenhower and says I could be in
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Prague in twenty four hours and gets no response, and
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: uh telegraphs again, and then Bradley calls him because as
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: in how it was too much of a of a
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: coward in my view to tell to tell Pattern no.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: And Bradley says, say, Patten, we've given Czechoslovakia to the Soviets.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: I mean literally, all he had to do was march
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: into there was no resistance, march into Czechoslovakia and take it.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: And yet they had given it to Startlin.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: So it's it's said the Moscow meeting in ninety forty four,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: where you talk about how they the famous if people
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: have heard the percent that's deal. So Curtis out with
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Stalin and he passed him a paper and most people think,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: on you know, this is so horrible. It's actually worse
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: than that because Stalin got more than what was in
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: the percentage paper. For example, percentage in Czechoslovakia had something like,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: you know, sixty percent our influences.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: The Soviets ended up with one hundred percession influenced there.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: So Stalin got way more than what this little paper
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: was promised to him.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: The only good thing that came out of this Greece
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: stayed in the Western sphere.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Of course, it took a civil war because at some
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: point Styling was like, why not, we can give it,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: we can give it a go. But yeah, it was
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you know, Churchill supposedly did that. His big gain in
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: that meeting was he made sure that Greece would stay
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: in the West. Of course, it took a war to
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: accomplish even that.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: So what was Churchill and Uslow's motivation at that point?
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: The war was over, basically, it was just a matter
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: of time. What was the motivation to give stall and
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: everything he wanted and more.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: That's a very good that's a very good question.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Well, the short answer is the war was not over
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: because the Americans had the big problem, which was the
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Pacific Front, and they wanted to So the motivation was,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: let's finish this as soon as possible and then concentrate there.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Chert Till maybe he had in his mind, I don't
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: know how to save the Empire I have.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: I have no answer.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know. I honestly cannot understand what
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Churchill had in mind. The meta answer is that there
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: was no way you could kick the Red Army out
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: of Europe. It was like it was even if they
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: played tough, they knew that if it came to that,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: they would not be able to they would not be able.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: To to fight the Soviets.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: And actually Schert Sill comes up with the plan, which
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: has a very interesting code name, Operation Unthinkable, Operation Unthinkablue.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: It was the plan how we can push the Red
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Army back that and most people focus on the material
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: situ that the Red Army had three to one advantage
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: and all that stuff. For me, the biggest problem is
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: how do you persuade your population that for three years
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: you've been telling us Uncle Joe and Uncle Joe and
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: our allies. How then can you tell them, Okay, now,
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: let's go fight the most battle tested army in the world,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: who have no problem to sacrifice millions. Let's go fight
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: them that wouldn't fly, not to talk about the fifth
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: balance that you would have the communist guerillas, the Communist
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: in France, the Communist in Italy. So it was so
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: probably they realized that the situation in the ground was
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: not a good one, and they tried to save face
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: to appear as if.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, we're on board with this, but I
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: don't have a good answer. I don't have a good answer.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, pattern was trying to get the Soviets
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: to do some things that he would have an excuse.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: He was somehow convinced that they could be taken on,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: but it would have been a blot.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: What is your explanation, by the way, for why they
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: did this, Yes, for why they gave a half of
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Europe on a silver play to Stalin.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: And I think you're right. I think they were worried
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: about Eisen you know, Icen know k K see. I
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: can't come up with names, it's impossible. FDR was worried
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: about was definitely worried about the Japanese and uh, you know,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: the the estimates of what it would take to take
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Japan were massive, I mean, well talked about hundreds of
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: thousands of American troops would would have probably died in
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: an invasion of the Japanese island. There were still there
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: were still islands that hadn't been captured, and they were
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: taking significant losses on them. He didn't want, you know,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: to continue the war in Europe, and he was afraid
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: that if if Paton went into Schichoslovakia, the Russians would
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: would shoot it out with Patent and he just didn't
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: want to risk that. You know, the whole the whole
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Western Front in Europe from an American perspective was keep
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: it on low flames, don't make a big deal at it.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: This is why Eisenhower was commander of the Western Front.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: You know, he was a politician. This is why he
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: ran for president. You know, he could manage the British,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: he can manage the French, and he you know, he
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: could manage the Soviets. They probably could have won, They
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: probably could have ended the Western Front, you know, nine
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: months earlier, if they'd be more aggressive, but they tried
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: not to be. They were really worried about how to
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: win in Japan and how to end the war in Japan.
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: And you're right, they were worried about a confrontation with
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: the Soviets. It wasn't obvious who would win that long term,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: I think the West would have won, But in the
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: short run it would have been a blood bath, and
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: they weren't quite ready for it. I think that's explanation.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, they would have had a dominance over the Soviets,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: and at that point they had so many bombers and
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: so many airplanes that would have helped them a lot,
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: but on the ground owned the Soviets in terms of
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: just shared numbers of troops would have overwhelmed the Americans
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: and their allies.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: And also, sorry, one more thing.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: The bad case scenario there is not that we lose
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: and the situation is as it is. The bad case
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: is the Red Army gets literally to the French source.
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and obviously to the Balkans.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: You have the communist guerrillas in control in Yugoslavia and
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: controlling Albania, in controlling Greece.
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: So Greece could have very easily gone.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: And the Americans had no allies at that point, right,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: they would have to convince the British to keep fighting.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: The British were exhausted r at this point, the British
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: had had enough. The French weren't going to fight, and
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: what were you fighting for. You were fighting for the
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: polls and the Czecks, and you know, it wasn't that
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: important at the end of the day. What was important
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: was to get American troops home, to give the British
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: a breather, and and to focus on the Eastern Front.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: But the real I mean, the compromise was in forty two,
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: right once once you realize the Soviet wasn't going to fall,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: they should have cut the Soviets off and at that
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: point the Soviet, you know, wouldn't have been a threat
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: to the West and then engaged in it. You know what. Now, yes,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: it would have more troops would have died on the
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: Western Front, but it would have been a cleaner victory
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: and you wouldn't have had to give up Eastern Europe.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: And then, as you say, let's so let's talk about Asia.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: What happens in Asia? So Russia stays out for the
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: most part of the war in Asia for most of it,
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: as you said, they were aligned with the Japanese to
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: a large extent, and they certainly were not helping the Americans.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: The war was going slow. I mean, America was winning clearly,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: but it was going slow, and the Japanese seemed to
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: be even more suicietal in their willingness to defend themselves.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: And even the Germans they were they were, they were
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: really you know, they took a lot of casualties on
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: every one of these islands, and they were really willing
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: to fight to the last man in many situations. So
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: so what what when did Russia enter, if at all?
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Because if I remember it, the Japanese surrendered to the
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: Americans and the Russians.
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, so it all starts in again in Yalta, where
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: FDR is begging Stalin get involved in in the East
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: and from so Stalin tells him again.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: Stalin gets the best deal.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: He says, look when we defeat the Germans after and
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: he gives I think a couple of weeks months or
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: something like that, after a period, I will enter that.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: So I will back stab the Japaness because he had
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: the neutrality deal and I will get to them. So
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Stalin attacks after the first bomb, after the first bomb,
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: so the basic, the main or attack happens after a Hirosima.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: It has a big effect.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: There are people who claim that the Japanese actually surrender,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: not because of the bombs.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: But because of the attack of Stalin in Manchuria.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Of course, he does not attack mainly Japan Manchuria for
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: people to picture like northwest or northeast China.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Or it could be just above North Korea, so the
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: part of China that's a that's kind of yeah yeah yeah,
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: just above.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that eventually gets you to the source opposite,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: let's say the northern islands of Japan to put it. So,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: depending on who you ask, that would make an interesting
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: episode that we can make in the first week of August.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: If our audience appreciates this and they make this a success,
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: we can discuss all the counterfactuals and all the stuff
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: about the nuclear bombs.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: But yeah, Stalin conveniently enters the world literally the.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Day and this is when this is when the Japanese
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: decide decide to surrender.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: But what does this mean practically?
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: It means that now Stalin can handle can hand Mansuria
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: to Mao to the Chinese communists, who conveniently did not
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: fight the Japanese that much. So the deal that Stalin
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: had with the Japanese is I will make sure that
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the communists will not attack you. So who bears the
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: biggest weight of the fight against the Japanese, the nationalist
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: under Chanka I Sek, and the Westerners considered him the
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: obvious legitimate ruler of China, so Japan surrenders. And then again,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: under influence by suspicious elements in the in the Foreign ministry,
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: they persuaded Truman by now Truman is the president.
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: Roosevelt has died.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: They persuade Truman that, you know, the nationalist Chang Is
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Sak is not a guy who is reliable.
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: So the Americans have promised him weapons. They don't give
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: him weapons.
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: And this is how Stalin Sorry, Mao, supported very generously
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: by Stylin, slowly, slowly takes off, takes off, takes over China.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: And again the role of the intellectuals. There was an
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: American writer who in the late thirties wrote a book
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: about Mao called The Red Star over China, and he
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: presented him as this agrarian reform enlightened, Agradian reformer Iron
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Raand must have read this because whenever he wanted to
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: mock the white walls in of communists, he would use
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: the term quote agrarian reformers. So the other American thought
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: that Mao was this agrarian reformer better than the nationalist
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: who are corrupt and you know they still money. So
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: they decided Chang I said, it is not worth of
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: our support. Cut the long story sorts Maw takes over
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: China and we know that what this meant for the
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: rest of the history millions upon millions of deaths. Yeah,
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: and also American deaths by the way, right in Korea
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: and Vietnam.
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: So what happens in Korea? How does I actually don't
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: know the history of how the Korean will get started
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: and is stalling involved in that role.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: So the first question is how does North Korea become
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: communist anyway?
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: And this is very simple.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: It's literally the Red Army hands that part to their ally,
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: who was Kim Il Sung.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: So the armies occupied when it takes Maturia.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Approximately approximately so when they push out the Japanese. Think
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: about it this way, the Red Army takes that controls
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: that territory and then hands it to a client, a client.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: Mister Resim, which is a Kim Il Sung.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Then Kim Il Sung seeing that again how appeasement creates
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: future tragedies. Kim is seeing that the Americans didn't do
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: anything with Maoo good China, So why shouldn't I get
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: the whole of Korea? So Korea was half of Korea
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: was a resume that was more closer to the Allies.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: So at some point Kim Il sung says, you know what,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: I can go for that, and he attacks. He pushes everyone,
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: He pushes the Allies to the to the bottom of Korea.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: MacArthur has a counter attack, he pushes everyone to the
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: to the top, and then the Chinese volunteer center of
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: the war, and you have basically then a war of
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: attrition literally till Stylin dies in nineteen fifty three. So yes,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: the Korea tragedy is a result of the Westerners handing
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: China to handing China to Mau.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Why is the Chinese intervening Korea and not the Russians?
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Do you know?
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because Stalin does not want Now, remember we
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: are in ninety forty nine, Soviet Union gets its first
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: nuclear weapon, but the United States has an advantage of
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: something like two hundred and to one, So you don't want.
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: To play war games.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: So Stalin says to Kim, look, you can attack, but
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: if you get any trouble, ask Mau for help, and
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: For mau this was very important because he wanted to
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: present himself I am the real communist alfa dog here,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: I go to power with my own hands, as opposed
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: to all the client states in Eastern Europe. So Mao
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: has a very weird relationship with Stalin. Mal consider himself,
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: I'm the most important commanist in the world. And actually,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: when Mao visits Soviet Union, Stalin to show him who
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: is the boss has him waiting for three weeks in
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: somewhere in the in the in the that side the
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: forest before he sees him, and he's he's bored out
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: of his himself. He's furious because again the idea was
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: everyone needs to know the place.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: No one is above Stalin.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Yep. Macarthy of course resigns over this over the one
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: in Korea because it was fired by Truman, depending on
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: how you view it, but partially because he wants to win,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: and he's he's urging Truman to use the nuclear bomb
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: in in Korea. Right.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: There's actually I'll sold this book too. I had it
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: conveniently very near. So this is a very book about
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: the origins of the Cold War by John Lewis Gods.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: It says the Cold War, and it opens the chapter
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: on Korea with the counterfactual of what would have happened
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: if MacArthur had his way. Now, again, most people or
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: many people will say, oh, you know, on principle, you
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: never comb we should have attacked them.
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: It would be it would be a scenario which would
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: be very, very ugly.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: So I'm not sure if MacArthur should have been Maybe
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: not listening to him and attacking the Soviets was the best.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Sorry, and not New King.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: I think his plan was to new Actually the Chinese
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: volunteers were coming in because remember, at that point, Soviet
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Union has nuclear warheads. And I'm not telling you that
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: they would have attacked the United States because they didn't
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: have delivery systems. What about Europe? What about attacking South
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Korea with their nukes? So at the moment when Soviet
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: Union has a nuclear weapon, everything changes. Now you have
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: to be bogged down to this situation where you have
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: to make sure that, like your first concern is, let's
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: make sure it doesn't escalate to a nuclear world, because
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: it will get it will get ugly.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but we should we need to think about kind
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: of where all this pragmatism leads and of course, it's
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: a chain of pragmatism and chain of compromise for decades
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: and decades and decades. And today North Korea, you know
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: they're talking about, is probably building twenty to thirty nuclear
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: bombs a year. You will have this massive arsenal soon
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: it has ICBMs who can reach at least the West coast,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: if not the East coast of the United States. The
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: monster we've created in North Korea is just unbelievable. Now
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: that you can't blame that on World War Two, I
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: mean the sense you can because because but all the
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: compromises since then, all the and it's often the case, oh,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: if we attack North Korea, the Soviets will intervene or
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: the Chinese will intervene. I mean, it's often explained in
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: the same kind of way. But yeah, they are chain
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: reactions to these things.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Their same reactions. And I mean, forget all these things.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Why do we save North Korea from collapsing ninety four?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: You're not you're not afraid of yelzing or of nothing
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: will happen. But again, see ideas have consequences, like oh,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: they're starving, we have to help them.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: As what happened in nineteen ninety four, because I don't
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: think anybody knows.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, sorry, yeah.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: So nineteen ninety four, North Korea is in the exact
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: situation where the Young Communist regime was in Soviet Union
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty one. Farming people don't have to eat.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: And what do the Americans say, we are here, don't worry,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: we are going to save the people and save the children. True,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: but what actually happens is they saved the rezin. They
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: did this in Soviet Union with the American Relief administration.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: That would make another interesting episode at some point, and
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: they did the same with North Korea. So one of
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: the biggest farmings in modern history does not become an
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: even worse farming. So they're like, we did our monetarian duty.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: North Korea survives. Fast forward twenty years. North Korea has
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: the amount of nuclear heads you have mentioned. And this
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: is where we are again generously sponsored by the altruists
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: in the in the United States.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: Right, So so let's talk a little bit about, you know,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: the consequences in Europe of the Soviet Unions of his success, funded,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: funded in and made possible by the industrial might of
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: the United States. What happens in Europe, and how does it,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: how does it get out of hand? And to what
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: extent is this different than what Churchill and Roosevelt might
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: have expected.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so certain and Roosevelt they they thought that they
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: had agreed to a situation where Poland would have would
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: be a neutral state, neutral state, it will be has
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: some type of democracy. Okay, they would be geopolitically, let's say,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: controlled by Soviet you know, but that would be it.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: What actually happened is Poland, it was Slovakia, half of Germany, Bulgaria,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: Romania and Hungary they became, and yugoslav and Albania they
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: became basically dictatorships. But it was way worse than that.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: And it's not just that, okay. For forty five years
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: I had the dictatorship. Yeah, whatever, the destruction in the countries,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Hundreds of thousands of people, millions actually of people found
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: themselves in gulags, some of them in Soviet gulags.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: They were seeped to do slave labor in Soviet Union.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: These regimes were very brutal with the successful, with the
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: industrious people, with the people who made the crime to
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: be slightly richer than everyone else. So it was a
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: huge cultural social humanitarian disaster which lasted for decades. So
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: they were under literally the occupation of the Red Army.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Later Yugoslavia and Albania they broke from.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: The Soviet bloc.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: But Soviet, you know, had its own native basically there
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: the Wars of Pact, which was of course kept together
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: only by seer power, which is why when Hungary nineteen
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: fifty six and because Lovakia and sixty eight dared to
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: attempt a different, more independent route, they found the Soviet
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: armies and the Soviet tanks.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: And yeah, that's was the result of Europe.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: Two lost generations, forty five years of oppression, of death,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: particularly early on, and of.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: Of yeah, two lost generations. I don't know how else
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: to do.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: So other the Soviets are the ones and the Russians
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: are the ones who celebrate Victory Day. I don't think
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: we make enough enough, hey, in the West, of the
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: fact that it was early America's industrial capabilities that one
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: that will and you know on all funds, right, I
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: mean it the ability to produce not just quantities. But
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: I think I think Victor Vavis Hansen has a book
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: recently about the quality of the weapons systems the US
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: was producing. It was significantly better than anything in the
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: Nazis were doing, and certainly anything the other the other
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: allies were producing. That is the this engine of freedom
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: that was the United States. And one of the mistakes
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: people make us thinking that this was all guided by
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: central planning on the US side. Much of this production
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: was was was private industry in the US, you know,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: generally broadly organized by the federal government. But the genius
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: of World War Two is leaving the big industrial companies
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: like the motor companies and others steel companies, to design,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: to innovate, and to do their own thing. You know,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: that's the true victory.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: You could put it.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: The Americans were good at producing, the Soviets were good
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: at dying.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: And this is the combination.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: And actually, even among the Soviet weapons that were not
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: part of land lease, many were still based on American technology.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: So the Soviets had a you know, the famous T
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: series tanks, the T thirty four and all that stuff.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: The Soviet tank industry starts when they go to the
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: United States. They find a private manufacturer who sells them
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: a tank. They take out the cannon and they sip
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: it back to Soviet Union, claiming to the American authorities
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: that it is farming vehicles.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: The Americans are buying it.
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: Of course why not, And this is what eventually gives
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: rise to the Tea series. One last thing about the
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: land lease, which we didn't mention, because the Soviets were
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: such friends. We were inviting them to Soviet to the
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: United States and where saving them are faties.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: So it's not just that they had spies.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: The Americans who were literally inviting the Soviets the five
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: So see, this is how we do our engineering.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: This is so the Soviets were having you know.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: They're having the time of their life, stealing information which
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: sometimes it wasn't even stealing.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 3: The Americans were giving them to them for.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: Free, and there was sympathetic you know, leftists, businessmen and
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: engineers who left the Innalzations moved to Russia at least
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: for a period and helped them in the twenties and
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: then even more so in the nineteen thirties develop whatever
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: they have. I mean, the stories about the big engineering
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: projects in Soviet Russia, often Western engineers in Russia, you know,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: guiding and planning and making these projects feasible.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: The guy who made some of the biggest industrial projects
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: in Soviet Union. Was the guy who had planned Indiana,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: which back then was one of the of the biggest
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: industrial plant, let's say, in the United States. So again
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: see the short sightedness of many businessmen, particularly during the
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: time of the depression. They were saying, we need to
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: find somewhere to do business. The West is not good
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: to do business. Let's go to the Soviet Union. And
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: they all lost. Ford went and built one of his
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: biggest factories in Easley, Novgorod. So the Soviets were, they
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: would change the taxi, they would basically steal the stuff
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: whenever they wanted. They would arrest engineers for quote, spying
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: or sabotaz or whatever.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: So it was it was an exercise in short sightedness.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Soviet Union. Yeah, I mean the the
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: whole approaches of its union from beginning to end as
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: being an exercise in short sightedness, and you know, irrational
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: and pragmatic and unprincipled, and you know, no consideration the
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: value freedom and the real nature of communism, which you know.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: And again remember there would not have been a Soviet
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Union perhaps if the Americans hadn't bailed it out in
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 3: The future president, the future President Hoover.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Imagine again, how different the history, right, I mean, how stupid,
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: how stupid. And one last thing, because people.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: Never learn.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: I'm a very big fan of the intellectual work of
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: the Hoover Institution.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Having said that, a couple of years ago they released
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: a big book about the support that they gave to
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: the Soviets when they were starving, and knowing in retrospect
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: that this thing saved the regime. At the end, they
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: say something like, and of course this was such like
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: a let's say Christian altruistic duty paraphrasing, and.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: We would do that again. It's like, wow, you will.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Never learned your so like morality plays such a big role.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: Even if God himself existed, then come and told you
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: you saved Soviet Union, they would say, And we would
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: do that again.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Remember what God also said, you know, love your enemy
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: like this, you know, love your enemy and turn the
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: other cheek and and all of that. You know, good
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 2: altruistic stuff. I mean, Christianity is the source of this.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: It really is the source of it.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: And it's not that it's not that we preach it
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: in theory. Again, you see it playing out.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: In history exactly exactly. It has its real life. This
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: is not just theologians talking about this and intellectuals talking
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: about this. This is real life. Might that's that was great?
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: We covered a lot. Of course, there's a ton more
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: that could be said, but we're going to turn to
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: our questions and our mind everybody that you guys fund
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: and our ability to do this, our time, the effort,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: the research, all of that is funded by you. It
• 1:11:06
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• 1:11:10
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• 1:11:13
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• 1:11:16
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• 1:11:19
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• 1:11:21
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• 1:11:27
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• 1:11:32
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• 1:11:36
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• 1:11:38
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• 1:11:41
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• 1:12:02
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• 1:12:10
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• 1:12:32
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• 1:12:36
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• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, So let's see Shivanas. Thank you for
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  Speaker 3: do that.
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  Speaker 2: We want good questions. We've still got on the clock
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: another forty five minutes here, so we you know, we
• 1:13:58
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  Speaker 2: it's Jennifer says, hooray for you. Onna Nikos. Looking forward
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  Speaker 2: to watching this new show. Thanks Jennifer. Black Cat black
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: Cat says Nikos, I've been a fan of yours on
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: Twitter X. We're on the same intellectual wavelength. Cool, thank you,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: black Cat. Mary Ellen says, could you say a little
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: about both Chamberlain and Churchill as wartime leaders?
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: So, Timberlin has been so maligned by his story, and
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: it's so annoying that his name is synonymous with the
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: idea of compromise.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: And off appeasement.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: But let's put let's put ourselves in his for people
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: who don't know. Chamberlain is the Prime minister at the
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: evil of World War two, and what is he mostly
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: famous for. He goes to Munich and he agrees to
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: hunt without a war part of Czechoslovakia, the politically most
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: important part of Czechoslovakia to Hitler.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: It was a part where there were German populations.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: Now, the alternative would have been to go to war
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: with Hitler over Czechoslovakia. Today, with what we know, we
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: know that this would be a more privileged terrend to
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: fight Hitler. Hitler was not as ready at that point
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: to fight as he was.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: Two years later. Of course, the West was not also
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: that ready.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: But you know, Chamberlain had experienced World War One he
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: knew that most of the people in the country did
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: not want to fight another war, so he basically did
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: what his population was asking to do, come back with
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: the peace at all costs. So we can say the
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: lesson is peace at all costs is not a good
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: is not a good principle. But I don't blame Chumberlain
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: that in ninety thirty eight he would have foreseen what
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: would have happened, and he had full clarity. Also, something else,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: Chumberlain said, the only way we can find Hitler is
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: if I joined forces, not just with friends who cares
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: about the friends, but with the Soviets. And then he says,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: he says to his sister in private, if I do
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: because his tormented desire, if I bring the Soviets in
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: in who's going to kick them out of Poland? So
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: I would say Chamberlain, so seven years ahead of what
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: would happen now, sorting obviously one of the biggest figures
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: the West.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: Let me just ask you, Chamberlain, does he get any
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: of the blame for the fact that the British didn't
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: build up the wom machine in the nineteen thirties, Because
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: that's one of the reasons. Can't go to one thirty
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: eight is because you know, they've neglected after World War One,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: they cut back down and they really haven't built up
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: a wom machine to take on the Nazis.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: But with Chamberlain, it's the production is amped up more
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: than than anyone and than anyone else. So again, I
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: don't know, I'm I By the way, I encourage people
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: to watch the Netflix film Unique.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's based on the book.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: Obviously, this brilliant actor is playing Chamberlain, so it makes
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: it easier to have a soft spottery. Anyway, Chelsei was,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: you know, a giant, there's no question about that, but
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: he got played by Stalin. Not only in the case
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: of Poland, God knows White Churchill decides that the best
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: choice in Yugoslavia is to support not the nationalists but Tito. Famously,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: later Tito breaks with Stalin and access and says Tito
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: is a bustard, but at least it's our bustard again magmatism, right,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: Tito who destroyed the country.
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 3: He anyway, there was.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: A brutal dictator.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: He was very particularly in the first year. He was
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: a very very brutal dictator.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: He had like torture, islands Hell or nerth anyway, So yeah,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not you're not going to hear from me creating this.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: You know, Chamberlain horrible appease Churchill giant church It was
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: a giant in many ways, but I think it's a
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: bit more complicated than that.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, but he's not. He's not the villain that I mean.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: There's there's all this right wing people who show up
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: on tech A costs and describing Churchill as the villain
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: of World War Two.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, Actually I wanted to mention that, please every
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: any criticism make of Churchill, don't take it as because
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: what's what's the thing that these low lifes, what's.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: Their scheme they have in their mind?
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: They say, look, you told us that we entered World
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: War two to support Poland, and yet Poland at the
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: end of World War two ends up basically occupied by
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: an alien dictatorial force.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 2: So maybe by the left, it's important for them that
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: it lands up being controlled by a leftist solitarian regime exactly.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: So then they say, maybe the war started because they
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: wing wing made us to fight.
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 3: Now the new thing is that it wasn't a world war.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: It was a.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: European civil war, a European Civil War. That's how they
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: portray the wars now. And of course who made us
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: fight Wing Wing?
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: They yep, yes, yes, then ten hours of the time
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: hours of the time. Then was there a qualitative difference
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: in Churchill versus Fdo's attitude towards Stalling? Wasn't Churchill much
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: more realistic about stallin fds into Actually he like and
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: trust Stalling?
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, that's true. As a person said, it was
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: more realistic Celts.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 3: It was a war dog.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: He was a street wise how to put it. Yeah,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: But again the result was the result was more or
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: less the same. And Chet goes to Moscow to have
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: a one on one with Talin because again in his
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: mind it's like Roosevelt is a softy, but when I
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: go and meet Stalin, then I'm gonna do I'm gonna
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: get the job done. So he overestimates himself. He doesn't
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: understand what type of thingg his he has to do.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: With let's see and and and I think it's.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: Sorry and one word thing FDR.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: Also, in his mind he doesn't want to see the
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: British Empire standing after World War Two.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: He has a different world order in mind.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: So if ther is also a bit suspicious vis a
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: visa Viti interesting, which complicated the dynamic between sets in
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: Stalin and FDR.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: So FDR is already thinking the United States is going
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: to replace the Britishampire. Yeah, okay, Andre, fifty Swiss Franks.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you Andre. The Swiss Frank is super valuable. That's great.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: And this is first super chat ever on UH on
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: this live stream, So thank you. Andrew really really appreciate,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: appreciate the support. Disagreed. Oh let's see, we have time
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: for more questions, guys, So if you have any questions,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: now is the time to do it. Let's s e
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: cook as Nikaus, you're missing the NBA draft.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: Lottery, real, guys, the n B A let me tell
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: you already what's gonna happen, so you don't worry about
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: the lottery. All the foreseeable future spars are gonna be
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: winning because they have someone who is not a normal
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: basketball player. He comes from space jam. He's an alien,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: So don't waste your time. The NBA probably nine out
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: of the ten titles are gonna be Banyama.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: All right, you heard it here. Nine out of the
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: next ten Neo Nikos, I know, you know it's El
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: Classical at three pm. Do you know what he's talking about.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: I know what he's talking about.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: L Classical is only real versus versus Barcelona. Have you're
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: talking about the NBA Playoffs. By the way, if they
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: New York Niques made it to the final, that's gonna
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: be quite the socio cultural event. Like even if they're
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: gonna get swept in the finals, but the mere fact
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: they're gonna be in the final, it's gonna be.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: It hasn't happened since ninety nine, and so you know,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: we want the New.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: York Knicks to the Knicks in San Antonio.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's gonna be Nicks. And Okay, it
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter. They Knicks are gonna lose it from a
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: problem from both.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, she's gonna make it this time.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: My mind says yes.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: But again I have this suspicion that the alien from
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: space jam is gonna do something.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 3: But they're the best team. Okay, he's the best basketball team.
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: There's no questionable. Kim is listening to rage against the
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: machine in Moo. Even if they have some good songs.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: I I okay, guilty as whatever. I listened to them
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: at the gym or whenever I work at. Also, Tom
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: Morrell is such a great guitarist. No, it's not tomoral.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: If it's not immoral to listen to Sostakovich, who was
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: writing music to boost the moral of the Red Army.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: It's not the moral to listen to Raids against the Macene.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Although politically Morello is you know what he is, he's
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: you know, horrible, but he's such a good guitarist player,
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: So particularly if you if he doesn't make I don't know,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: loads of money from you, the esthetic experience you take,
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: I think doesn't make it more. I know different people
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: I know I'm run for example, didn't want to buy
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: Soviet discs.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that was it was a physical record.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: It was a physical record.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: But still I think I think it was Leernard Piko
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: who told the story that it was like but if
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: you can find it like second hand, then because.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: You get well, he bought he bought an opperretta. I
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: think he bought common, one of the common opperattas, and
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: it was a Soviet disc and she heard it and
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: it was so enjoyable and she loved it so much.
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: You know, they if you can listen to Soviet operettos.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: You can listen to Tom Morello, yes, And if you can.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: Listen to Tomarello, then you can't listen to Pink Floyd
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: and you can't listen to you know, there's so many
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: down there's such a list that you can't listen to.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: Wagner's out. Just the covic is out. You know, a
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: lot of people coffee of his out. There are a
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: lot of people are out due to the politics. So
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: you have to be able to at least to some extent,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: separate it out here.
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 3: Here's an anecdote.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: So every episode we're going to give like a perk
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: to the audience that they haven't heard it elsewhere. You know,
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: at the end of the year, Spotify or YouTube music
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: gives you the what was the song you heard?
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: Most of the times?
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: Because when I want to prepare for a course, I
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: want to get immerged to the topic. And the last
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: year I was teaching a course in argu what was
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: then aru On Mart mccommunists, my top song for twenty
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: twenty five was The Boatman of Volga. That's a Soviet
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: song which is like the malevolent view of life. Instead
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: it's basically life is suffering, let's push a bit more.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: But it's brilliant, particularly in the Red Army, in the
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: Red Army version.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm very guilty of that.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: But I get selfish value of this, and my students
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: also get selfish value because I get invessed and I
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: understand the topic better, and then I can teach it
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: better and then we can fight.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 3: Collective is better.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: So when you were a leftist, did you get pleasure
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: out of songs like that for different reasons?
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, But let's admit the leftists know how to produce
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 1: also uplifting In terms of activists like uplifting art. Nine
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: out of ten things is garbage. The one out of
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: ten which is not garbage is brilliant. Again, God watch
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: as in Stein October, listen.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: To so COVID. They know what they're doing.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 2: Yep. Absolutely, The sculpture paintings are stilted, and I mean
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: the materialism comes through in ways that you don't get
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: the music and in other places. So but yes, they
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: certainly in cinema and in music they knew what they
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: were doing and they had a great tradition of music, right,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: they could build on a great tradition of music which
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: which helped, which helped with that.
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah from coffee. If this is this is brilliant, this brilliant.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely absolutely, all right, Silvana's thanks. Savana's a
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: fifty dollars question. Imagine that the Lenley support was never
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: given and the Soviet Union lost to Germany? Is it
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: is it a safe bed the Allies would still have on? Said,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: would still have one? Was it the correct choice given
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: what happened after with the Cold War?
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah? First of all, what do we mean that Germans
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 3: would have won?
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because the Soviets would would retreat behind they were ural,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: so there would be some fight of attrition forever. So
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: it's interesting to think what all the alternative history novels
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: or alternative history moves, how they portray the situation, And
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: it's always that the British reach a deal. They decide
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: it's futile to fight. So this is what would make
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: the key the key difference if celt would say this
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: is futile, let's cut a deal. So it wouldn't It
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: wouldn't mean that the Germans would defeat the Westerns in
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: the battlefield.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 3: It would just be that there wouldn't be a battlefield.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: So yes, it's a very different difficult counterfaction A because
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: I cannot see how the Germans would defeat the Soviets.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: But if they would defeat them, then the thing would
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: be the Engle the Great Britain would probably say, Okay,
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: look this is futile. Just let us be here, do
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: what everyone to Europe. And so that's that's the counterfactor.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: So everything after that is different.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: So I think the more realistic kind of factual is
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 2: there's a war attrition between the Russians and the Germans
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: and the somewhere in the east, and maybe Churchill doesn't surrender,
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: it doesn't cut of deal, and then whatever happens later,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: assuming Japan still attacks and all that happens, it's just
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: this bloody it's much bloody on the Western on the
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: Western Front, it's much more difficult, more difficult.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: And also the humanitarian disaster imagine the Holocaust times seven eight.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, because the Germans have that entire territory in
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: which they're killing people.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: But you must have a plan that these people who
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: will be working and a percentage of them are to
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: be starved. Not to mention the Jews that are all
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: to die. That goes without saying. But even the natives.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: Many of the natives are dying.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: But Germany would have taken huge, huge losses because think
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: about the territory. Think about just the vastness of what
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: they would have had to hold and and managed, you know,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: the entire European most of the European side of Russia.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: If they were going to go on into I don't know,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: down into the Middle East to get the oil, you know,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: they they couldn't even they couldn't even manage North Africa, right,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, uh, so's it's not that they they would
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: have just unless the would have cuted diostyle. And it's
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: not like they would have just uh, you know, captured
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: this territory and they would have been peace there. It
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: would have been constant warfare and they would have they
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: would have suffered significant losses.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: And if we want to play counter foxwell, I think
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: the only realistic counterfaxwell would be for Germany, but not
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: the Nazis to win, because the Nats will never do it,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: which would be to cut to deal with the Ukrainians.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: The Ukrainians have just gone so initially many sow the
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: Germans as liberators. So imagine if Hitler had told them, hey,
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: you can have your own army, you can have your
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: own flag, your autonomy. Just let us have Ukraine as
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: an allied nation and as an outpost to destroy the
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: Russians who have been who have been tormenting you. This
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: would be the only possible way. But of course Hitler
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: would never would never do that.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: You would never do that for what reason?
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 3: First of all, because it's full of Jews.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: It's full of He wanted the Jews, but the Ukrainians
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: would have handed them over. Sounds like the Ukrainians love
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: their Jews.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but also he's also the Ukrainians as as inferior.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: And yeah, he was too much of a Nazi to
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: accept alliance with any of anybody.
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: YEA. Ultimately, even Mussolini would have been if it was
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: if Hitler was winning, Musolini would have been deposed and commander.
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 3: And oh yeah, because Mussolini.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: The other thing is Mussolini did not have it in
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: him to spill blood, whereas Hitler had it.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: And we have to understand Hitler was a true Nazi
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 3: in the same way as Stalin was a true Communist.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: They were not just thags who were in it just
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: for no They were true And it's so doubted how
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: history played that.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: So at some point we need to do a show
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: installing as the as a real communist, right, so counter
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: to what that?
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: So I got like that. There's such a plethora of evidence,
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 3: it's gonna be hazier.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: So I like numbers. Pinker called God's cool for questioning
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: suicidal empathy. Pinker called God cool for course. Okay, is
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: it reasonable to see Pinker has contempt for Ran for
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: being against altruism?
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: I have no idea.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: The only thing I've read from Pinker is his book
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: on writing, which is very good.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 3: There, so I leave this, we get on.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, Pink is not an egoist, so
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 2: he's definitely he definitely believes in some form of altruism.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: You know, he would argue for a a softer than
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: it than the the the Christian form. But yes, he is.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: He is an altruist, and he probably objects the RAND.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think he necessarily feels contempor
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: foral Would he come to an objective's confidence if he
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: feelt contempt for iin Rand? I don't think so. And
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: he knows some objectivists, you know, he's known some objectivists.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: He's been interviewed by them. He seems to have some respect,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: but he certainly doesn't agree, right, He's not. He doesn't
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: agree with egoism, and he probably has an evolutionary explanation
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: for it as well, which is part of how they
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: justify it. But I also say that you know, the
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: whole idea of suicidal empathy and framing it that way
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: the way God does is I need to read the book.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: But it's probably wrong, right, It's it's just not going
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: to the essential. It's placing emotion above everything else. Empathy,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: after all, is an emotion and and and it's it's
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: it's judging emotionally. It's not going to the core of
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: the issue and the heart of the issue. And then
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: you can easily disagree, Okay, which empathy is suicidal, which
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: is not? How do we know the difference? How much
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: sacrifice is Okay, it's a little bit of sacrifice, okay,
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: and what So these kind of debates a futile. What
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: you really need to get is to the core of
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: what is life, What is the purpose of life, what
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 2: is true morality? Not have debates about whose empathy is
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: legit and who is not. Tessa Niko's short story of
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: your change from left to objectivism.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 3: The very short story is number one.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: There was a crisis in Greece and the Marxist schemes
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: would not fit to explain the crisis, or it was
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: basically life itself. The second part was getting some self esteem,
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: getting pride from working like simple minial jobs. But the
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: mere father that would gain money gave me a pride
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: that I was lacking before. And the other stuff is
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: taking market too seriously and trying to apply the labor
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: theory of value to for example, how does Lebron James,
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: how is he exploited by his bosses?
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: Like it makes no sense?
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: And also asking my markets professor, here's my salary, here's
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: how much my boss is making. Can you tell me
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: what's my rate of exploitation? And they were giving me
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: answers we cannot. We cannot calculate your rate of exploitation,
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: only the rate of exploitation of the whole working class,
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: Like that makes no sense.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 3: How if you.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: Cannot, if you cannot calculate individual workers the rate of exploitation,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: how can you calculate of the whole class anyway? So
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: then I come across the Austrian school of economics by coincidence,
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: and that's how it starts.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, that says I'd love to see this
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: as a regular Sunday feature. Appreciate that, and you guys
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: continue supporting like this and it definitely will be Uh,
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: shooting this is great, Thank you. Shooting Sruti is great. Yes,
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: I thought you'd say that, all right, Michael says, is
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: it likely the Soviet Union would have been defeated by
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 2: the Nazis at the US not intervene.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: Again, what do we mean by defeating? So there's a
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: good chance Moscow would fall. But if Stalin would never yeah,
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: it happened with Napoleon. Stalin would never, would never ever
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: give give up. Stalin would gladly die for Communs. By
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: the way, again, as we said, the true believer. So
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: what would they do with the with their energy sources,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: with their supply line. So there's I've yet to see
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: a good scenario on how on how Germany occupy Soviet
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: Union and manages to sustain it, you know, I like counterfactionals. Yeah,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: what if they you know, if they didn't divide the
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: army and they went all in straight towards the Kafkashoos and.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 3: All that stuff, or what if they went straight to Moscow?
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what's like you saw what happened in
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: Stalin that could you imagine the Battle of Moscow like
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: that still be there today fighting, They will still literally
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: still be there today.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: It's it's and you know, the Russian winter is indeed bruto,
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: it's it's not a myth, and it's bureau because you
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: can't you can't move in the roads. You know, this
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: is nineteen forty tech and and your soul just cannot
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: stay warm. It is it is a disaster.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's to to use a sports and people don't
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: what's football anyways? So the Nazis were good basically in
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: one tackle, which was penetrated with mechanized forces fast. If
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: you can't do that, then your book to a battle
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: of attrition. That's not that element.
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 3: This is not, this is not this is not what
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 3: the good.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: Well and fun fact, during communism, the Red Army was
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: celebrated for liberty Hungary. Than in nineteen eighty nine we
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: found out Russian children had been taught about the same
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: event as them occupying Hungary.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: Well, there's no question that Hungary was under occupation, and
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: it became clear in nineteen fifty six. By the way,
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: interesting Marxists spent their whole lifetime about revolution. The one
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: revolution in Europe in recent history was the Hungarian Revolution.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 3: You literally had every Marxist.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: Row works rising up, taking over factories, taking over production,
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: and it was a revolution against e communist dictators it
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: and it was crashed in a very bloody way by Communists,
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: by the Warsaw packed forces.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: Christas Nichols, what do you think of the political stage
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: in Greece, traditionally very socialist? Do you think there has
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: been any shift with more voices pro freedom, capitalism or
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: the other way around.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: I will just give you one. I mean that's not
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: Greece is still among the five least free.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 3: Columnies in Europe.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: And when I say Europe, I don't mean the European Union,
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 1: I include Belarus and Russia.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 3: I mean it's completely an ecdotal, but in my years.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: At the Iron Institute, I think I gave a talk
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: in every I was invited somehow in every single European country.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 3: Never in Greece.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: Never.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: It's it's a wasteland, intellectual wasteland for freedom.
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 3: It's it's a lost cause. It's hopeless.
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: Nichous there's a lot more negative and grease than probably
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: anybody else's.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: But okay, yeah, I can invite it though a few
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: times twenty September of twenty one, in a very nice
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: roof garden of.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: The video, I think the video is available.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 3: It was.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: It was probably one of the best settings I've ever
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: spoken at. Maybe there's no video, maybe we just took photographs.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: It was one of the best settings ever. But I
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: don't think you've spoken in every European country, because I
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 2: doubt you've spoken Belarus on mold of A, so a
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: few places neither of us have ever spoken at.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I didn't speak in Belarus. That's that's true.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 3: I was speaking to Albania. Was like it counters like
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 3: how diver Abia.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: I probably I think I've counted the five countries in Europe.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: I haven't spoken in yet, Belarus, Moldova, Slovenia, which you
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: might have spoken at.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: But invited in Slovenia. I think it's something happened and
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: it didn't happen. But I could have spoken in Slovenia.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: I was invited in Bosnia and I was on a
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: plane landing in Bosnia and the pilot decided the winds
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: were too strong, and he flew us back to Vienna.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: I've spoken in you've spoken.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: I think those are the only countries in Europe. I
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: haven't spoken at those four. So yeah, I mean together,
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: we're probably only missing Belarus. And I have a feeling
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: neither of us is speaking in belaruis anytime soon?
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: Not then, any time?
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: All right, let's see Robert says, an informative, compelling and discussion.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: Great to see you, both of you in action. Looking
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 2: forward to your future dialogues. Thank you. Rob it Ian says,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: if you haven't read Stalin's War, you definitely should. It
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 2: has some strong opinions about all these decisions and how Stalin,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: with the help of sympathizers in the West, got his
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: way in negotiations, and because I think went up to
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: pick it up there it is so.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: This guy has written recently two books on communism. The
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: one I didn't like it, so I picked this with
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: a lot of skepticism. This is brilliant, This is very
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: very good, and it has the eye for the important.
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 3: So it's a paid it's a paid turner.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: So I recommend it to people seeing McMicking Stalin's Stallion's
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: War excellent.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: Uh, all right, that's in Stephen Harper, thank you for
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: the sticker. I think I got all the sticker people.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: Did I get a Oh I didn't get Martin? Thank
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: you Martin for the sticker. Uh yeah, and we got away.
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 2: One says very interesting, thank you, thank you. One he
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: Yall says, can you recommend any reading on the post
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: war division of Europe? Yes?
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: Any any opportunity to get up, So the first book,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: because I need to stretch. But if we do well,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy myself a standing desk.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: Now raising money for Nicholas's standing desk. Guys, so just
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: saving Nichols's back.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: I not guilt you, not to guilt you, but till now,
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: whenever I'm on a standing desk, I put the desk
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: over another desk. So one book you should start with.
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: John Lewis say, god, this is the Cold War. This
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: is because this is a small one. But there are
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: two more. By the way, say something an.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 3: So that there's no dead.
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, Nicos is going over to get to get the books.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: But yes, you know, sitting all day long can really
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: quate hav a conning back when I when I when
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 2: I fly my back really really suffers because I'm sitting,
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: even even though I usually am in business class, the
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: first class. It doesn't matter. Just being on that tailbone
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: will destroy your back. So standing, So one of my
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: privorties is to get Nicols a standing desk.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, so if you so.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: The two obvious choices about Stalin and post war Europe
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: is Stalin Scares by Robert de Latelli, who I've heard
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: this guy recently.
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 3: He's he's he's quite good.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: So battling for communism in war and Cold War, that's
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: I would go.
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 3: That's the one I start. Most people might know an
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: Apple Bao.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not always the biggest fan, but this is a
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: good iron caretain on the crashing of Eastern Europe.
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 3: If you want to read about the enslavement of these countries.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: And if you want to go slightly deeper, there's also
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: Stalin and the Fate of Stalin and the fate of Europe.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: If people want further literature, how it's called big bliography suggessions.
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 1: You know DM or something or even better, become a
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: patron and then you can ask anything you want. But
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: if I had to pick one book, only one book
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: actually tell you what if I have to book only
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: one book, I would pick Stalin's War because it doesn't
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: involve the Cold War, but it sets up the stage
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: perfectly for how we end up with Soviet Union being
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: a superpower. And also I have to mention always the goat,
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: the goat in history. Steven Godkin, his two volumes on
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: Stalin is absolutely essential. I really hope he's gonna also
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: deliver the third volume because it's it's it spoils you.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: Once you read these books of history, every other book
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: of history, it's like you read that last rag, everything
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: else goes downhill.
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 3: This is Scott kid when he writes history.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: Cut Kin's hoover. Yeah, yep, all right, let's see Mary Ellen,
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: thank you the second second stick. I appreciate that. Glenn,
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: thank you, Glenn, fifty dollars. Really appreciate that.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 3: Hey, Glenn, thank you.
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: Let's see all right, Jacob says, thank you both to
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 2: the content, thank you. Jacob Cobb says, what are your
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: thoughts on kls Schmidt? He's popular on the disserdent way.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so, Carl Smith. I mean, I can't go deep.
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 2: I'll just tell you what We'll have to do a
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: show on them at some point. Given his popularity these days, I'm.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: Very suspicious that all these people have actually read Carl
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: Smith and they have much to say about about about
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: Carl Smith.
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 3: But we can we can have a whole show on
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 3: on Carl Smith.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: Let's just say, I'm not a big fan, and I
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: can give you a hundred reasons about the man himself,
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: his ideas, the historical context.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 3: Maybe we should have a whole show on Carl Smith.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's unbelievable to me that somehow
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: Carl Smith is consisted exactly.
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have actually have a show on cal Schmidt.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: Is a little mind boggling, you know.
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it's like, hey, let's have a show on
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: the brilliant historical of a lot of It's like, it's
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: at that level.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: Of Cobbs as. Mao was said to be a brilliant
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: military strategist. Was that true?
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Mao, he was such a brilliant military strategist. He
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: barely thought. And it was with the with the Japanese
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: and when it came to China. The way he thought
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: is he would he would put seeds outside the country,
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: he would let the civilian population starve the civilian starf
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: and then at some point he would occupy the city.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: So this this was his his brilliant military strategy. Also
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: his brilliant military strategy is he was sending Chinese to
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: fight in Korea where the temperature was like minus thirty
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: in the equivalent of what these days we would call
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: like today we called barefoot zoos. So we talked about him,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: how aunread he was for the Russian winter Mao's quote
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: volunteers in Korea, they were literally thrown to the Kannon
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: for their not even expected to be able to to
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: stand with the cold. So I'm not convince Mao was
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: a military zimis because I don't see any evidence of
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: like which battle was such.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: A ero evidence absolutely Neo my Canadian friends with the
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 2: shik of her shirts and try to convince me he
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: was a good guy. How bad was he really?
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: The ver once again the importance the importance of aesthetics,
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: the importance of aesthetics, the poster how he looked like,
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: but also the importance of altruism.
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 3: While Sevara at the level.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: Of a saint because he could stay in Cuba when
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: he was in power, have you know he had women,
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: He had the prestige good cigars. He went to Africa
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: and then he went to Bolivia, Olivia. He sacrificed, and
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: this immediately means he's at the level of a saint.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: If he hadn't sacrificed, he would be like the Castros,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: into corruption and die of old age. But he sacrificed,
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: and therefore he's at the level of the moral said,
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: and of course that iconic picture.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 2: But he was a real monster. I mean he was
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: a brutal murderer and a monster.
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was leading. He was leading a communist revolution.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: But he was more of a true believer than Fidel.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: Fidel was first he took power and then he decided
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: that he would be a communist through through other.
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 3: For virus, other reasons. But yeah, say was was a
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 3: true believer.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Thoughts on Pastor Doug Wilson, Are you familiar with
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: this guy?
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: Helped me?
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: I mean he's evangelical preacher these days, who I think,
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: what's what's a stick? Uh? You know, women shouldn't have
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have the right to vote? It all we all
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: went downhill once women got the right to vote. And uh,
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: he's a Christian nationalist. So when we do a show
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: on Christian nationalism. We'll do a little bit of research
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: into Doug Doug Wilson. He's also really well connected with JD.
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: Van's so that's part of the But he's he's definitely
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: Christian Christian nationalist, a really a real bad guy. There's
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: a bunch of them out there, you know, flirt with
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: float or not so flirt with anti Semitism, but but
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: just suddenly with with kind of uh.
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: Something on Christian nationalism about Patrick de nin.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 3: Now people will be confused.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: They'll be like a talk about Patrick Denin or about
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: the Marxist because I keep what I hear sounds similar
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: to Marxist.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 3: But stay tuned when.
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: We do that well, and and okay, we'll talk. But
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: then you know, there's a there's the nan kind of
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 2: Christian nationalism, and then there's Evangelical Christian nationalism, which are
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: which are just like the Evangelicals are different than the Catholics.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 2: The differences. But but yes, Kim says, following up in
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: the wage against them in question, is there a point
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 2: where you shouldn't listen to an artist like for example,
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: But how should you think about this?
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 3: It all depends on the context.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 1: So when I was preparing for my latest course at
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: the ARDU, which was on fascist.
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 3: I was watching.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: With my partner all the every fascist movie we could find,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: like literally movies with the Nazists.
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: I was listening to what Lina's Lena, what's a what's
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 2: a family name? Or the the the.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 3: Power of the power of the will.
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 2: Vertimilo or something like that.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 3: No, and now you said the wrong name.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: And no, no, not just only that, because that's okay,
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: that's like but even even cheaper, let's say propaganda. And
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: it got so deep that I one night I literally
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: had the dream with the Rudolph Hess I was in
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: I was in prison in Rudolph has Now there was
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: a contact, there was a reason, there.
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 2: Was stall sorry, wave and staff.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 3: Rife and style yeah who who yeah who.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: Then after the Wars was like, oh, this was just
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't have anything to do with with an artist.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: That was just artistic war. By the way, then she
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: was saying I was hypnotized by hitlers. Say she literally
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: thought that, you know, I couldn't help it anyway. So
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 1: one one of this example is you can listen to
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: music which is by let's say, white power, fascist stuff,
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: and you don't know that they're by by fascist groups.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: There's some like very interesting electronic music, industrial music stuff,
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's nice music, and then you learn
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: about these people are fascist.
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 3: That's a different level.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: But if you listen to that because you want to
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: get pumped on how to hate on the on I
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: don't know, on the Semite or on the just this
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: is the level I would put that beyond that is.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 3: Is bad. So context, context markets, what's your answer.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's obviously context in which you wouldn't listen
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: to music. I mean if somebody, I don't know, if
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: there was a really really good song celebrating October seventh,
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: you know, would you listen to it I know, or
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: you know, explicitly denying the Holocaust? I mean you would,
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: you would, just yeah, you would not. But you know
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: there are context. I mean, if you're study, if you're
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: studying up on October seventh and you really want to
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: kind of Hamas and who they are and what they
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: are and what they represent, and you would listen to it,
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: but but you wouldn't listen to it for enjoyment. And
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 2: on the other hand, certainly after the artist is dead.
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, in Israel they be for many,
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: many years. I don't think it's still true. Nobody, nobody,
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: no orchestra would play Wagner. You know, you couldn't get Vagner.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: People would walk out, walk outs, and none of the
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: orchestras would play the It was just it was just
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 2: it wasn't banned by government, but it just wasn't done.
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: And you can kind of understand Holocaust survivors, you know,
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 2: not wanting to be in a room with Wagner, which
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: was played often in the camps and associated in their
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: minds with what happened. And you can completely understand that.
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: But if if you if you don't have that emotional response,
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: if you don't have that association, then Wagner is one
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: of the great composers of all time. I mean, he's
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: one of the giants of music. And the fact that
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: the Nazis picked him, and yeah, he was an anti
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: semi but the fact that the Nazis picked him, uh,
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: you the music is an anti Semitic. There's nothing in
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: the music that is antisemitic in any kind of way.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: You can you could, I mean, I enjoy Wagner, and
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: I think any anybody can enjoy Wagner. You know, you
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: you you you don't have to think of him as
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: an anti Semitic while you're listening. You don't think of
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 2: him while you're listening to the music. So context, it's
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: all about context. True. All right, let's see, we got
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: a few questions. Duc Molts, Matt Matt something I don't know.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: Some of your names are tricky, guys. I found a
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: comic on TikTok who does imposonations of your His name
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: is Amy Cozak. Yeah, I've been on a show found
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: he's done interviews with you and quote you favorably on
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: his podcast. Are the impresonations good? I mean? Does he
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 2: do good? John?
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 3: He helped me famous.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: There used to be a guy close to Razzi and
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: deanro and sand the UK who do the best impersonations,
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 1: but he later became.
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 3: Literally a postmodelist.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: Then he was honest enough to say, okay, guys, now
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 1: I'm the post models that I leave.
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 3: He made the best impersonations.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 2: Cab Nicos, Why did you decide to leave AOI? Why
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 2: don't we skept that question?
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: No, it's just so that people don't think there's something
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: is for the use for usual reasons why someone leaves
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: their job, like professional reasons.
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: Nothing you know to there's no philosophical issue at hand.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: There's intellectual issue, and obviously we still get along. Cab
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 2: hasan piker real Marxist.
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 3: That's a very good question. I don't know.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: So he had this picture where he was reading What
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: is to be Done on a train. Let me tell
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: you something. I don't think there's anyone who is at
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: his age who is a real Marxist who has not
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 1: read What is to be Done and who would be
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: reading it on a train. What is to be Done
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: is not a book that you read on a train.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: So it's like you've seen this many photos where Lebron
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: James is reading a Malcolm X's biography and he is
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: always in page one. I assume something similar happens with
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 1: Hassan Pa and.
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 3: What is to be Done?
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: What do you think of people who are extremely wealthy
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 2: and flaunt their wealth and are committed Marxist?
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: No surprise there at all. Ideas are more powerful than
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: your wallet.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: Heah thoughts on historians Sarah Pain.
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 3: I haven't got anything good to give you, so, but
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 3: have you got something?
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: No? I mean, the name is super familiar, but I
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: can't think of anything of us I've read Yeah anyway,
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: another time, another time, another time. Is postliberalism and Catholic
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: integralism the same?
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 3: They're like that, how do you call it?
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 2: That Venn diagram huge overlap. Well, well, I think we're
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 2: going to do a few shows on post liberalism, Catholic
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: integralism all the mean.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: And there are some post liberals who are not Catholic integralists.
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: I don't think I know any Catholic integralists who woul
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: then also.
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: Be a postal. That's right. So the post lebel is
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: the biggest circle, but it encompasses the integralists. What's your
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: friend is up to these days?
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'll tell you exactly what he's what he's up to.
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: So at the beginning of the Twelfth Day War, he
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: wrote a solidarity letter to the Iranian embassy and I
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 1: print screened it because I was like, if I say
• 1:58:38
  Speaker 1: this to people, people whoill not believe me in this war.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 3: He took a step further.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: He visited himself the Iranian ambassador to express his solidarity.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 3: So people, this is the guy who has been kidding you.
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: That he cares about women, that he's progressive, and he
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: goes and gives his solidarity to the Ruan and embassy.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: So the other day he was in Russia. Of course
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: he told us that this is a gesture of peace.
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: That he went to Rossa is a gesure of peace.
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: Of course he wouldn't go to Israel as so he said,
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: it's not that I you know, I support Rosa, just
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: went there for reasons of peace. So in the summer
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: he was retweeting calls to go to Israeli tourists basically
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: and protest them, and many people from his party would
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: do that, which is I think the you know, it's
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: the twenty twenty six version of trying to fight to
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: spot Jews and you know, question them on It's something
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: similar based on where on a characteristic that you cannot control.
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 3: I've already judged you, and you're suspicious until you.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: Give me reasons to to not be suspicious of you.
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: He's beyond the deplorable. He's worse than you think. Whatever
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: you think of him, he's much worse.
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: And he's refused debate.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: Me, which is unfortunate because I think he was a
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: chair on the debate you did ages.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: I met him, because he was he moderated a debate
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: I did an inequality. He knows me. I saw him
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: in Wales last year and he said hello, you're on,
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 2: So he knows who I am and he's but he
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: refuses to debate me because he moderated this debate between
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: me and James Golbert Gobert, the son of the famous economist.
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: All right, let's see Molten splendor. Visiting family who lean left,
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: we decide to bring you on's capitalism versus Socialism T
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 2: shirt why hiking? They told us that the subject was
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 2: not that black and white, not that black and white,
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 2: and we responded that the shirt was actually blue. Okay, well,
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 2: I'm glad my shirts are getting a use. So this
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 2: is this is great. Uh you guys, I have a
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: Oh you can buy shirts with different quotations on them.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: It's on YouTube. You can go to the store tab
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: on YouTube and and buy mugs and shirts and caps
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 2: and hoodie. I once saw a guy where was it
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 2: in no way with a hoodie. They had the one
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 2: book show on it. So cool.
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 3: It sort of to the previous friend.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: I haven't read any of the books of Sarah Payne
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: and just double checked and yeah, I know her, but
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: I haven't read the book.
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah I know that I know the name as well.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, Jennifer says, there is a Pink Floyd song
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 2: on Turning On the Turning Away. It is literally about
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: people not caring about the poor dumb but the music
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 2: is excellence. I listened to it. Yeah, I mean, if
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: I only listened to songs with the lyrics were good,
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 2: the universe of songs would be very, very very narrow,
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: like I love Bob Dylan, John Bayers and a bunch
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: of leftist protest singers from the nineteen sixties.
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: And yeah, also I had the teacher who said a
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: very wise word he said in a He said, basically,
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: Pink Floyd is not rock.
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 3: Pink Floyd is classical music. So it's yeah, I'm a fan.
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: I like I like Neo. Have you got a chance
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: to speak with Tick History.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 3: I've met Tick History.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: He's one of my YouTube mentors, although it's not like official,
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: but I've I think he's he's very interesting and he's
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: work ethic. I don't think I've ever met someone like
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: personally knowing that person who works, who works that hard.
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 3: He came last year to our conference and rank.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: In Europe, and he's he's a great he's a great.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: Guy, and he's disappeared a little bit. Is he still out?
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 2: Is he still doing stuff?
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: He's gone gold a bit actually, not like on a strike.
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: He's taking some time because he has some personal reasons.
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I got into touch recently. He's he's doing okay.
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: He will be back eventually.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: Excellent, Cab. I love your video on u Ko Mishima.
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 2: His demise was pathetic, though the Japanese soldiers were laughing
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 2: at him.
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's so.
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: It's many people today look at Missima as a model
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 1: of heroism, and I made the video saying.
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 3: That I get why people need heroes.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: And of course he had, you know, the the appearance
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: and the the the the the ambition to look at
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: something higher. But eventually, Iron Run's vision of hero is
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 1: missed vastly superior to to Missima's because Missima is oriented
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: towards literally death, and I'm Run is literally oriented towards laugh.
• 2:03:50
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, we're gonna do this quickly because I've got
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 2: I've got a time constraint. But Cob says, will you
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: guys do a video on courtasey of.
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 3: It't it's so difficult, like to talk about what exactly.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: He has followed yes, mumbling mumbling.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's spar and it goes.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: It's like telling us do something on zi zeke what
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: like the jokes they want to talk about what It's
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: very difficult to pinpoint what are his idea.
• 2:04:19
  Speaker 2: We can't do something, but we'll probably do something on
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: your oven, if only to show you that he doesn't
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: really he's not saying anything or and what he says
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 2: is often so ridiculous that it seems bezore I have
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: the comments on it, but if only as part of
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 2: the new rate. He's suddenly walking up.
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 3: And he used to be and I used to find
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 3: him very entertaining. Now it's not even that.
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: It's a bit like Zezec, like after some point you
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: don't even get the entertainment value.
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: Cub Why is communism associated with the color of red,
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: fascist and brown and black capitalism with blue?
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 1: First of all, I never knew that capitalism is related
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: to blue. I don't know exactly why communism is with red.
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: I know though, why the Nazis chose the red, and
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: it's one hundred percent because of the socialism they wanted.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: And I encourage people to go and watch non black
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: and white, so videos with color of nazialis. The dominating
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: color is red. If you just see the picture, you
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: can't this is a Nazi or a commonistrally.
• 2:05:26
  Speaker 3: Red is everywhere.
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 2: He yeah, says is there a reason nationalism has historically
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: been so influential in many Orthodox majority countries like Russia
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 2: and Serbia.
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: Well, it's a very easy form of collective, is very
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: easy form of you know, you have to sacrifice for something,
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: So it's the low hanging fruit.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for Orthodox Church that is very focused on collectivism
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: and sacrifice and tribalism.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: Like it's us and the others are not so Orthodox
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: and not so good. Yeah, yeah, documental the Catholics were, Yeah,
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: it's yeah. So the Orthodox don't even are not even
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: in good terms with other Orthodox.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: It's it's it's interesting, an interesting phenomenon. May we'll talk
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 2: at some point that young there's a number of quite
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 2: a few young people in the United States are converting
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: to Orthodox Christianity rather than all the other sects. That's
• 2:06:24
  Speaker 2: the way to choose it, which is bizarre, bizarre. Indeed, Yes,
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: this is fun. We'll have to do it again, like
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 2: next Sunday.
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: Next Sunday. Yes, we'll do it again many thanks to
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 1: you for having me. You know, if you told me
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: ten years ago this would happen, I was like, yeah,
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: that's so. And also, most importantly thanks to the viewers
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: who gave us their time and to those who gave
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: us also their money.
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 3: A bit more of a.
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: Thanks absolutely, thank you all the super chatters, and don't
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: forget Patreon, but Nichouses and mine and we will see
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: I will see you tomorrow and I think we'll have
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 2: a show every day this week and for the rest
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 2: of me and Nikos and I will see you all
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 2: on Sunday, same time, same place. Bye, everybody, have a
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 2: great weekend.
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much.