Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Unearthing Abandoned Albums & Favorite Reads with Keith R. Higgons [Episode 196]

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Unearthing Abandoned Albums & Favorite Reads with Keith R. Higgons [Episode 196] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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  I'm lie, I know dialogue, how to I found the conversation round that's
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  a geyser. Interesting. Interesting man, it's provocative and Ford Taddy dam back
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  Man, Rock and Roll, Welcome back to book don Rock, the podcast
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  for those about to read and rock. Find the podcast at booked on rock
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  dot com. You can find every episode of Booked on Rock there, along
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  with links to your favorite listening platforms, exclusive videos, blogs, links to
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  all of the social media sites, the latest rockbook releases, and you can
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  now watch every episode in full on video at booked on rock dot com.
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  Also on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel at booked on Rock. It's another
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  chapter in the dialogue series of chill and chat with authors, fellow podcasters,
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  musicians, and more. The guest this episode Keith R. Higgins. He's
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  the host of the Abandoned Albums podcast, one of my favorites. Keith is
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  a diehard classic rock fan. He's a great interviewer too. He's genuinely curious
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  about the guests he has on and it shows and we'll talk about the podcast.
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  Also turns out that Keith is a big reader and he's got some great
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  books we'll talk about, including a new book out on drummer Jim Gordon by
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  Joel Salvin, books on Norwegian death metal, Leon Russell, The Replacements,
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  Putting the Blowfish, a book on the making of the Fleetwood Mac album Rumors,
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  and a book inspired by Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac.
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  Plus there's one book he wants to see written on a band he calls egregiously
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  overlooked. Which band is that you're about to find out? Hey, Keith,
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  what's going on? Man? Welcome to the book Done Rock Podcast.
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  Good to see again. Nice to see you, Eric, Thanks for having
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  me. I really appreciate it. Yeah, looking forward to this one.
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  It's funny because we just both happened to live in Connecticut. It's not like
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  we know if we didn't bump into each other and say, hey, oh
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  you got a podcast, I'll get you come on mind, I'll come on
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  yours. It was just like we just listened to each other's podcasts and found
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  out that we're from Connecticut and not too far and we know a lot of
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  people, like a lot of people in the radio business, et cetera.
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  So yeah, tell us about yourself and your podcast. Abandoned Albums you're also
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  a writer. Are are you born and raised in Connecticut? I am not.
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  I am born and raised in the Midwest. I was born in Minnesota,
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  Minnesota. I even got it corrected. Well. My brother's a Vikes
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  fan, a longtime Vikes fan, yep. And then my coming of age
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  years, I like to say, we're in Ohio. I was there from
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  like thirteen to nineteen. It's part of Ohio, Dayton, Dayton, Ohio.
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  Yeah, and then I left for the East Coast, and I've been
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  on the East Coast far longer than I ever lived in the Midwest. Now,
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  tell me about Minnesota winters. Are they as brutal as they say?
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  They weren't as brutal? I mean there, I recall the summers being much
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  worse. You know, we joked that, you know, the state bird
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  in Minnesota is the mosquito. Yeah, it's so human. But the winter
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  that I remember the most was the one we spent in Canada. My birthday
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  is in June, and it's the only time in my entire life where I've
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  been in school on my birthday because they bake in snow days into the school
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  year and ahead of time, ahead of time. Yeah, they bake in
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  until you go to like the third week of June, or when I was
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  there, we went to the third week of June, and sure enough we
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  had at least one to two snow days a week through the peak of the
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  snow season. Yeah. Well, I'm a June birthday guy too. This
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  is great. Your birthday June second. Ah, I'm June eleventh. Wow.
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  Wow, this is Gemini high five, Gemini high five. Man,
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  this is this is eerie. This is aerie. Let's see what else we
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  have in common. What turns you on to rock and roll music? Ah?
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  What turns me on to rock and roll? You know, I really
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  don't know. I remember one of the first albums I ever got was Elton
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  John's Greatest Hits, Volume one, and I think I was just blown away
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  by him, and I remember just loving Crocodile Rock. I don't remember any
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  one particular moment or song. My mother used to say that I had to.
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  You know, I always went to sleep with music on since I was
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  a baby, and that's something I continued to do well into my twenties.
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  That Greatest Hits is the Blue One. I think he's got the funk that
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  it is. I should show you the cover I have. I've written all
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  over. My little eight year old self has written over it's like I love
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  you. Yeah, you're my favorite artist. Yeah, that's like the must
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  have. Especially in college. You had to like this one. Marley's greatest
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  hits, Steve Miller's greatest hits, Yes, the Doors. Yeah. I
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  didn't to celebrate any of those band's catalog as far as I was concerned.
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  You were pretty much good with the greatest hits except Elton John Yeah, his
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  album Mark was certainly worth it. Yeah, Elton's the man I did not
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  know. He kind of blazed over the abandoned albums thing. Well, yeah,
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  yeah, that's the podcast I have. I'd like to say that it's,
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  you know, the only music podcast that matters. Of course, I
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  don't mean that that's I'll say it here for anyone that cares to rip off
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  from the Clash. The Clash were marketed as the only band that matters.
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  So that's all that is a little tip of the hat to the Clash and
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  abandoned Albums. Is what we do is we take an album from history that's
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  been overlooked, ignored. Just moments ago, I dropped the first episode after
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  one hundred and one hundred and two episodes. That is a true abandoned Albums.
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  The conceit of the show was I wanted to find those records, those
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  albums that had been recorded but got shelved for whatever reason that never saw the
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  light of day. Didn't work out that way. That was a far more
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  challenging task than I had imagined. But this one I just released was a
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  band called shuffle Puck and they released a record for Interscope Records at the peak
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  of Interscope's power, and it got shelved not because it was a bad record,
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  and it is not a bad record, it's a very good record.
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  It got shelved because there were other bands on Interscope that kept releasing stuff,
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  so they kept getting pushed back because they were a new band, a baby
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  band. They kept getting bumped. You know, I'm familiar with that name,
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  right because we sw Loudon was on the show. Oh I didn't he
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  Yes, I thought you knew that. So, yeah, he was on
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  the p I know he was going to be on, Yes, yes,
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  it just ran and he was on to promote the book in the vinyl LP
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  together, which is a great idea which celebrates that whole geek rock era of
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  the nineties and two thousands, and yeah, you guys, you guys got
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  to check this out. Who are listening right now that are interested in that
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  generation Generation Blue that's the name of the book and the album, Generation Blue.
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  But yeah, he mentioned shuffle Puck and I think that was one too,
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  you say in the A and R. Guy just kind of disappeared like
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  he was supposed to really get behind it. And the album is great,
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  and it's one of those albums that that that happens a lot more often than
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  than I ever thought. There's a lot of like everything has to line up
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  just right for these bands correct. And then I my default was to go
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  to Broken Homes, which is my default album for virtually everything, because I
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  love that record. But so along the way, that was the original idea.
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  Along the way, it's just sort of changed and now it's you know,
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  it's really a straight up music podcast with artists of any at any level,
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  really new artists. I get pitched by PR people all the time,
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  and you know, it's like the music, Yeah, it's it's it's cool,
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  you know, and you're important. I don't know. I'll take it
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  though, thank you. Yeah, man, what I what I love is
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  in a You just had Greg Prato on, one of my favorite authors ever,
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  and he's really a friend of the show now at this point, he's
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  been on so many times. And I was listening to that interview and and
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  and one of the things that mean you're genuinely interested, So that that comes
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  across. It does, thank you. You're also asking questions based on the
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  answers you're listening, you know, And that's not so easy. It's not
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  that easy. No, it blows my outline out out of the water because
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  I do actually prepare and have an outline, and but I like to go
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  with the flow. And I don't, you know something, I want it
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  to be a natural conversation. I don't want an interview or rigid interview.
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  That's yeah. Yeah, Well, speaking of albums, first album you ever
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  bought? And also what was the first concert you ever went to? But
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  first start with the album first Hour? First album? Did you buy the
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  Greatest Hits by Elton John? It was that. I don't know how I
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  procured that, to be honest with you. So then first album I can
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  remember buying the first album, I remember buying War two, Fleetlood mac Rumors
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  and Steve Miller, A book of Dreams, not bad Synchronicity Police. I've
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  said that story many times that I was at the Target, the tar Ja,
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  as my mother used to call it. This is before Target was what
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  it is today. It was actually not quite so nice. First confer concert.
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  Now, I used to tell people it was the Black Sabbath and blo
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  Oyster Cult Tour of nineteen eighty, the Black and Blue Tour nineteen eighty.
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  And that's a lie because my first concert was really John den Or the year
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  before at the Saint Paul Civic Center. Dah, that's not too shabby.
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  John did the league great John Denver? Yeah, yeah, I can now
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  hang my head, hang my head, hold my head high. Yes,
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  you know, I'm proud of that. But I wasn't when I was eighteen.
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  No, but he was a massive star in nineteen seventy nine. It
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  was he had the movie Oh God, Oh God. Yeah, hit singles.
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  Yeah, there was a monster star and it was great shoe. Now
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  here's a tough one. I'm trying myself to remember the very first podcast I
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  ever listened to. Do you remember yours? I do? Okay? Which
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  one? It was Radio Lab. It was a radio Lab episode, and
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  it was an episode about I forget what the topic was, but I remember
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  the story. I'll paraphrase poorly and briefly. The story was about a woman
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  in New York City who had been hit by a car and had been and
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  what everyone thought was, well, she was in a coma, but sorry,
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  my dog she met your dog's wagging his tail, bad news. That's
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  a whole other thing. But she was. Have you heard of the phrase,
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  I think it's called trapped in, locked in? I think they call
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  it. You know the Metallica video where the guy is in the for the
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  first video they had, or the guy for one, yeah, oh yeah,
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  the character, that male character. That's what's called locked in. When
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  somebody they assume they're dead, but they're not really dead. Their brain is
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  still functioning. And that's what happened to this young woman who was hit by
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  a car and she was on life support, but her brain was still active.
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  She just couldn't communicate, and so they had made the decision to pull
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  the plug, and she was writing, I get goosebumps now, even thinking
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  she wrote on her boyfriend's hand. She's like, I'm here as best she
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  could, you know, And eventually she came out of it. They didn't
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  pull the plug, and eventually she came out of it. She lost her
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  sight and I think she lost some of her hearing, but she lived.
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  That was the first podcast I remember here. I remember hearing listening to WNYC,
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  New York. YEP. They do great work. But what proved me
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  away about that is they do interesting work with audio. They text her the
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  audio in such a way that makes it it's it's wonderful. They do great
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  work. Yeah, the production whoever's doing production there, Yeah, hats off
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  to them. I just I'm trying to remember I know early podcasts that I
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  listened to. I mean, it might have been I'm just thinking of one
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  off the top of my head as Astonishing Legends. Do you know that one?
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  I don't, Okay, Astonesting Legends is it's like a paranormal focused podcast,
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  but so professionally done. Two hosts, and and just everything from the
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  logo to the website, just the way it's put together, and it's just
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  I was like, Wow, this is this I want to do. And
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  then I'm trying to think of trying to think of some maybe the first music
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  podcast that I ever listened to, and that's crazy how I don't know.
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  I became more. I loved actually just the homegrown ones, like just it
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  just it didn't have to be super polished. It was just like, to
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  be honest with you, I was, I'm a horror movie fan, so
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  like I listened to podcasts on the Halloween franchise or Friday the Thirteenth or Scared,
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  Like there was one that was just on scary movies like whatever's new,
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  that's that's out now, and talk about some of the old ones. And
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  I just thought it was just so cool because it's not something. Is there
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  a podcast for the movie The Leprechaun? I bet you there is. There's
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  remember remember the way he was in he was in the Hood? Is that
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  part three? But yeah? Well, what was the first podcast that inspired
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  you to make your own? Is? Is it radio Lab? What made
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  you think I got I want to do this? What? Mainly one?
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  I think the fact that I could The first one I remembered doing. They
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  weren't called podcasts at the time. They were called like audio dire audio blogging.
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  What I would do. The first one that I did, I did
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  about a dozen of these, is you know the the radio host Elilah oh
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  yeah, yeah, syndicated show. This goes out to exactly. Yeah.
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  I'd write in these fictional letters, you know, like oh my, we're
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  pregnant with our first baby, and then I would play the most ridiculous song
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  like you could imagine. So say somebody wrote and said, oh I'm we're
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  pregnant with their first baby, blah blah blah, and then I played the
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  wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, you know, just like so absurd, like
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  the anti Delilah. You know, that's the first one I remember doing.
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  And then I think I told you I did one with a friend of mine
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  cocktails. Did you have trouble setting and stuff up? Because I'm not an
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  engineer, so that was for me tricky like drinking, no setting up like
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  the mixer and the technical aspect of stuff like getting getting everything to where you
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  can actually talk a new a microphone and I don't have a mixer. I
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  shouldn't say that. Oh okay, all right, yeah I used the mic
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  so yeah, okay, so the technical aspect of it wasn't no. See,
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  I don't know why. I was like shooting for the stars, like
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  I'm like an audio file, so everything to be just so before I started
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  abandoned albums. I'm like, all right, I want to do this,
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  right. I don't want to do this, you know, because it does
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  sound like but you're using a microphone that's like a I mean, I don't
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  know it's a professional mic or it's a sure mic. I mean that's the
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  thing. I mean, you're not you know. And some people don't even
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  use a microphone all and it's just them in the room. That's cool too.
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  It doesn't matter. I mean, it depends. It could be really
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  really bad, but I mean, I I mean, look, I like,
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  I listened to one of my favorite podcasts would be this may be the
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  first music podcast not to think about three sides of the Coin, The Kiss
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  Podcast. I love it. Oh wow, Okay, you know the hosts
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  they don't have a professional microing like that. They're just you know, they
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  zoom and what does that mean three sides? Well, it's a playoff the
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  Ace Freeley song two Sides of the Coin from the Unmasked album in nineteen eighty
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  and they're three hosts all three sides of the coin. And technically there are
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  three sides to a coin because you have that little the side I suppose I'm
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  getting semantics. I'm not sure, but yeah, that's okay. But so,
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  yeah, that wasn't a tough, tough goal for you. I was
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  just an audio file to the point where I literally in the beginning I was
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  hooking everything up through my phone doing Zoom through there so I can have the
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  cleanest sound possible without right and then so so so the audio was coming in
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  for the guests through Zoom, but it was coming and clean straight through the
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  mixer for me, and I thought that sounds perfect. But after a while,
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  it's like it doesn't really matter, like zoom, the zoom audio is
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  is is good enough. I mean, it gets a point like sometimes you
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  become so obsessed with it. I'm like, all right, just relax until
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  we can get into a studio and do it the way. Yeah. Yeah,
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  I think I think the key to it is just having a good mic.
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  I mean, I spent a fair chunk of change on the microphone.
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  Yeah, And there are two kinds, two kinds of Mike's. There's a
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  dynamic mic and then there's the condenser mic, which is like there's a difference
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  in the condenser mics pick up more of the room sound. So the dynamic
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  mic is what radio stations use. Yeah, it's dynamic because it doesn't it
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  picks up what's in front of it. Now you mix and matches. Is
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  that like a side Yeah, that's the other podcast I do. It's the
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  part of a bandon album though, isn't it isna the umbrella it is.
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  It's the goal of that is just to get folks talking. The goal of
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  that is to get music nerds together, you know, and have them pick
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  out ten songs. You don't need to be a musician, you don't need
• 18:40
  to be involved in the industry. You don't need yeah, you know,
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  you don't need to do any of that stuff, you know. I interviewed
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  an old colleague of mine the other day because he's a big music nerd.
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  So it's just a chance and an opportunity. It's another avenue for me to
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  express myself creatively and to get all of us talking, to build a community
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  among the music podcasters. I think that's equally as important. And just people
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  just enjoy a podcast with two people having their conversation. It's just something about
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  it. I like to think. So, yeah, you're a writer too,
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  I am. I do write. I write the occasional. I usually
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  try to write an accompanying piece on our Substack, the abandoned album Substack.
• 19:30
  Really well written, man, gotta tell you, thank you. Yeah.
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  Yeah, I don't know if that means anything, but from one one writer
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  to another, it's really good. And I envy everything. I try to
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  keep up with a blog on my website, but it's just hard to do.
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  And you got it right. Yeah, it's very hard to do.
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  But yeah, I do write. I've written plays. I've written screenplays.
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  A lot of plays I had produced when I lived in New York, but
• 19:55
  nothing that anyone would have seen. We're talking way off Broadway, black box
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  theater type stuff. Screenplays. I've never written a novel. Some short stories
• 20:08
  I do. I write these things called one hundred words where I try to
• 20:12
  convey a message or a story or an idea and one hundred words or less,
• 20:18
  well, actually exactly one hundred words. That's the exercise. Okay,
• 20:22
  that's kind of fun. The book Down Rock Podcasts will be back after this.
• 20:29
  You've had some great guests on a couple of friends of mine. Darren
• 20:32
  Paltritz who wrote a great book on David Lee Roth, a DLR book,
• 20:36
  and then I mentioned Greg Prato, who just wrote a book on rat.
• 20:38
  It's one of many books he's written. I think he's up to like forty
• 20:41
  or even more a rat. It's called World and Infestation, the Rat Story.
• 20:48
  So go out and get those books. You also had members of the
• 20:52
  band The Call on Dude, I did That's awesome the Call? Yeah that
• 20:56
  was that was good? Yet, Yeah, what a great band? How
• 21:00
  did you get? Sadly that the singer is no longer with us? But
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  the aating members of the band put something together from old recordings. They found
• 21:11
  a bunch of old recordings with his vocals on it, and the vocals were
• 21:17
  good. They were just songs that didn't make it to whatever album they were
• 21:21
  recording at that time. And they were one of the bands that I've always
• 21:26
  wanted to have on and I I tried about sixteen eighteen months ago, and
• 21:33
  I came close. I got in touch with somebody who was in touch with
• 21:36
  him, and he goes, well, let me ask them if they'd be
• 21:37
  interested. And then I followed up a couple of weeks later and he's like,
• 21:44
  oh, I haven't heard back yet, let me double check. And
• 21:47
  then I just never followed up. I figured if they wanted to do it,
• 21:49
  so then when I found out they were releasing this this box set and
• 21:55
  this new album and the remastered reconciled and into the Woods, I was like,
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  all right, well now they have something to promote. Now, now
• 22:07
  they might want to come on there, And sure enough all three agreed,
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  but unfortunately the drummer couldn't make it. But I got to fifty percent of
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  the band. Well yeah, yeah, Michael Bean, the singer passed away.
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  Yeah yeah, Michael Bean sixty years old and passed in twenty ten.
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  But really cool voice, great lyrics. I'm assuming he wrote the lyrics he
• 22:33
  did. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. You know what the sun
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  does. No, this is a it's a neat story. His son is
• 22:42
  in a band called Black Rebel Motorcycle Club and they're not terribly big here in
• 22:49
  the States, but they're very popular in Europe. And when the last record
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  by the Call kind of fizzled out and it was a let the day begin
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  that would have been two thousand, he sort of put the band on ice
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  and went and started working with his son, doing sound for his son,
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  and that's how he passed away. He had a heart attack. Well doing
• 23:12
  his sound for his son. Oh wow, I didn't know that. Yeah,
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  I didn't know that Let the Day Begin is a great song. There
• 23:22
  are people that are probably listening to us talk about this band, and they
• 23:26
  they've heard the songs, but may not even realize that the band is the
• 23:30
  call let the Day Begin. See single The Walls Came Down. Yep,
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  brilliant, Let the Day Begin. I think those are the two big ones,
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  but I still believe yep. Peter Gabriel once referred to them as the
• 23:47
  future of American music. Yes, that's on their website. I think they
• 23:51
  have it on there. Yeah they should have been. Yeah, there are
• 23:56
  those bands that you just think, man, they could have been, could
• 23:59
  have been, should have been bigger than they were. But then again,
• 24:02
  I mentioned this recently in an episode that it's like you could look at the
• 24:06
  glass half full and say, hey, they got they made it. I
• 24:08
  mean they got, they got there. MCA Records signed them, and they
• 24:12
  got a couple singles on the on the radio. So how many people can
• 24:18
  say they that was? That was a time when getting a record label,
• 24:21
  getting a deal with a label was no small task. I mean, today
• 24:25
  I don't think it's it's it's different. It's a whole different game today,
• 24:30
  but back then it was there's a lot of work. You had to be
• 24:33
  really really good. Yeah, you know. Yeah, it's just not to
• 24:37
  take anything away from bands that have labels are on labels now, I think,
• 24:41
  but there's a different, different game. Who is it just saying they
• 24:44
  don't think labels will even be around anymore in ten years. I don't think
• 24:48
  they should be. I think they should be nothing more than marketing departments.
• 24:51
  That's all they're good for. Yeah, Any favorite and they're yeah. Any
• 24:56
  favorite interviews, Favorite interviews. Jimmy Ashurst is always a great interview. He's
• 25:04
  a bass player. Yeah, I think favorite interview because my feeling is that
• 25:11
  I always look at when I think of favorite interviews, I'm not thinking about
• 25:15
  who the guests is. A big name, not a big name of interesting.
• 25:22
  I just interviewed a guy rap artist by the name of X Rated.
• 25:26
  That's not his Christian name, I don't think, But in any event,
• 25:32
  he spent twenty six years in prison and for a crime. He was convicted
• 25:40
  of a crime. He was probably one of the nicest men that I've interviewed.
• 25:45
  He came out, he got he he really used it to educate himself,
• 25:52
  you know. I think the chance of recidi recidivism with him is next
• 25:56
  to next to nil. But we just had a great conversation. And while
• 26:03
  he was in prison, he continued to release records. He went in when
• 26:07
  he was seventeen years old and spent twenty six years in prison. And while
• 26:14
  he was in prison, he kept releasing records. He would record like through
• 26:18
  somebody through a phone, a cell phone, and some it would get sent
• 26:22
  out recorded and some would lay down beats outside. And he kept continuing to
• 26:27
  release music, which I thought was really interesting. And he himself is just
• 26:34
  a really really nice guy, really cool guy. His message isn't what it
• 26:41
  was when he was twenty. You know, it's a little bit. It's
• 26:45
  different because you're different than the forty something. But I'm looking Atah. I
• 26:49
  really rated Raided Correct from Sacramento, and he paid me a very nice compliment.
• 26:57
  He said, Man, I like the way you interview because I don't
• 27:02
  know if you ever get that insecure feeling, I get cribly insecure. It's
• 27:04
  like oh all the time, yeah exactly, yeah, yeah, it never
• 27:10
  goes away. No. So that was really I was like, well,
• 27:14
  all right, okay, cool, cool. Yeah, that was one that
• 27:18
  stands out to me. I always feel like it's not until maybe five minutes
• 27:22
  in I start to feel like I'm warmed up and it gets better. Aways
• 27:23
  in the beginning, I'm like stiff, I feel well. Let me ask
• 27:26
  you, how do you handle get a cranky one? Oh, I was
• 27:30
  just about to ask you, like, have you had any good interview stories,
• 27:32
  because I only have only had one. I had one guy get pissed
• 27:36
  at me. No, I've never had anyone get angry at me. I've
• 27:41
  had some tense moments, and I can tell at times. I'll have a
• 27:47
  co host, whether it's Jeff Calhoun and early on it was Rob Janicky.
• 27:52
  At times, you can tell when somebody is vibing more with somebody else.
• 27:57
  I'll stand back and do more listening than engaging, and just because it's clear
• 28:04
  they have a connection for whatever reason something with the other person. But I've
• 28:08
  never had anything tense or anything that I considered to be tense. I've had
• 28:17
  moments, but I usually try to deflect it and make it funny. Yeah,
• 28:23
  because there's always these are generally fun experience. So I've had every single
• 28:29
  interview has been great, where everybody had a great time. Everybody was cool.
• 28:33
  I had this one author I won't say the name, but I read
• 28:40
  the book and I set up the questions and I could tell like he seemed
• 28:44
  to be getting irritated with the questions. And then at one point I asked
• 28:51
  another question. He goes, I thought we were talking about the book,
• 28:56
  and I was like, okay, like deer in the Headlights ever happened to
• 29:00
  me before? Wow? And I just like, okay, man, good
• 29:07
  talking to you. And he's like, is that it? Yeah, you
• 29:14
  don't want to ask anything else? Uh uh? Sure? What do you
• 29:18
  think? What do you think of what you see in the future for the
• 29:21
  band? And it was like he gave a quick answer. I'm like,
• 29:22
  all right, man, take care. And there was an email that came
• 29:26
  through to my website and he was like, yeah, that that kind of
• 29:30
  ended awkward. I'm like, I'm thinking about that. You think you know
• 29:36
  he got pissed at me, you know, and he just was like,
• 29:38
  I just don't feel the questions were really about the book. They were more
• 29:41
  biographical about the band, and they really weren't what that's not you know what
• 29:45
  I was, That's not the way I approached the book. And I was
• 29:51
  like, Okay, I said, listen, I want guess I have a
• 29:53
  good time, you know when when you're on. So uh, it's all
• 29:56
  go with me. I just wasn't going to keep you on any longer than
• 29:59
  you want to, right, And so I I, you know, and
• 30:02
  I edited it all out and I put the put the episode up, you
• 30:04
  know, because what kind of was like in my in my defense, I'm
• 30:08
  like, well, we are talking with the book, and I put the
• 30:11
  picture of the book cover on the on the episode art, and I put
• 30:15
  a link to the book. You know, half the reason I do this
• 30:18
  podcast is to help authors sell the book. So yeah, I'm talking about
• 30:22
  the book. And then it was one point like I was I was reading
• 30:27
  an excerpt from the book and it was funny he was. He was like,
• 30:32
  you know, I don't really agree with that. I was like,
• 30:33
  you don't agree with what you do? You wrote it? Okay, So
• 30:40
  weird, man, weird. If you ever get a chance to do yourself
• 30:42
  a favor and listen to the Mark Marin episode where he interviews Gallagher, Yeah
• 30:48
  awkward. Oh yeah, so Gallagher gets up and walks out. It's the
• 30:52
  shortest WTF episode I think that he has see I was wondering if I should
• 30:57
  have run all that part. But I I just it's not what this podcast
• 31:02
  is about. It's it's it's not I'm not I'm not looking for shock value.
• 31:06
  I'm looking to I genuinely have a respect and admiration for writers, so
• 31:11
  I'm here to I'm here to get great stories from from the guests, but
• 31:15
  also I want people to know about a book that may not have known about
• 31:18
  it, and I want to help you. I'm I'm less altruistic. I
• 31:23
  think I'm like even this shuffle Puck episode, I left I referred to them
• 31:29
  by the wrong name, right, and the lead singers like, you might
• 31:33
  want to do that again. You said the name around Oh what I say
• 31:36
  said? You said shuttle Puck, And I'm like, oh, yeah,
• 31:38
  yeah, I was like, I'm sorry, Well I left that in yeah,
• 31:42
  because it's it shows for if somebody got really pissed at me, and
• 31:48
  I don't would the case by case situation, I think, yeah that I
• 31:52
  just felt like that I just heard that. Yeah that I was just I
• 31:56
  just felt like I would have been just I would just I would have been
• 31:59
  being a dick, you know, like yeah, and it's it's just not
• 32:02
  that wasn't my intent, you know. I remember I had COVID at the
• 32:06
  time too, so it's pretty weak. I probably shouldn't have just I should
• 32:08
  have maybe delayed it, you know, maybe yeah, you know, maybe
• 32:15
  I just wasn't on my game. Weird, never happened before or since.
• 32:19
  Yeah, good, unless you're gonna get pised at me. I thought,
• 32:23
  we're here to talk about my podcast, so let's do that, Keith R.
• 32:29
  Higgins, as I guess, Yeah, the host of the Abandoned Album's
• 32:31
  podcast, let's talk rock and roll books. You sent over great list books
• 32:36
  on rock you've read, read some of, or want to talk about.
• 32:38
  Okay, So Joel Salvin's book on Jim Gordon was first on the list.
• 32:44
  It's brand new. It's called Drums and Demons and I The Tragic Journey of
• 32:47
  Jim Gordon. It's the complete title, Drums and Demons, The Tragic Journey
• 32:52
  of Jim Gordon. I just recorded the episode with Joel and I cannot wait
• 32:54
  to put it up. Oh my god. He was awesome of his book.
• 33:00
  So he's yeah cool, He's like he's like the real deal, like
• 33:04
  the cigar and Yeah. Now I'm thinking, boy, he should have a
• 33:08
  podcast. And sure enough he does. And he's got a voice. He's
• 33:12
  got a voice. So it was just like this fascinating interview. I mean,
• 33:15
  sad, tragic story, of course, but it's it's the full story
• 33:17
  of Jim Gordon. Who who who was on Derek and Domino's Leyla and he's
• 33:23
  he's he's on Beach Boys recordings and he's on he plays drums on Carly Simons
• 33:29
  You're So Vain. In fact, he does Jackson Brown. He's on a
• 33:35
  Tom Petty song. Yeah yeah, And but but on the your syl vain
• 33:38
  story was cool because it wasn't even just the drums like he was he was
• 33:43
  helping to orchestrate the song in a way that it hadn't sounded when it was
• 33:47
  brought in, and and like just brilliant mind but schizophrenic. And then the
• 33:52
  voice. The voices. At first, when he was a teenager and a
• 33:54
  kid, they were they were helpful. Was the word do you better for
• 34:00
  hold your clothes? You better? You better make sure you wash the dishes
• 34:05
  before you go to bed, like stuff like that. But then they became
• 34:07
  angry and evil and and telling him not to eat for days on end,
• 34:15
  telling him to throw away all of his Golden Platinum records, and then he
• 34:17
  would go out into the trash and take him out of the trash, put
• 34:21
  him back on the wall, and then they would tell him you no,
• 34:22
  no, no, you got to take him back. And then it was
• 34:25
  and then it got to the point where he was hearing his mother's voice.
• 34:29
  And then the only way that he the voices were telling the only way to
• 34:32
  stop it is to kill your mother, and he killed his mother in June
• 34:36
  of eighty three. I think it's really important to note that schizophrenics are not
• 34:40
  violent. The very tiny majority of them are violent. He mentioned that Joel
• 34:46
  mentioned that he happened to be one that was violent. Okay, Brian Wilson
• 34:51
  was. He worked with and knew Brian Wilson also schizophrenic. But Brian Wilson
• 34:55
  wasn't violent. Just just it's a it's a terrible story. He I remember
• 35:02
  reading that story in Rolling Stone and like when it first broke, and I'm
• 35:06
  like, my god. First of all, I couldn't wrap my head around
• 35:10
  what it takes. It. The method in which he murdered his mother is
• 35:15
  horrific. Yeah, itself is horrific enough. But he had a hammer and
• 35:21
  then finished her off with a knife. And then he went to a bar
• 35:23
  and had some drinks, and one of the guys in the bar was I
• 35:29
  think interviewed for the book, Joel said, and guys like he noticed he
• 35:32
  had like a lot of looked like dirt on his sleeves or something might be
• 35:38
  blood. I mean, I had to be right. And then the creepiness
• 35:44
  of at one point during the day he had knocked on the mother's door and
• 35:46
  she wasn't home, and some guy, the neighbor was out just watering his
• 35:51
  grass and noticed somebody knocking on the door looking in, and then just leaving
• 35:55
  getting his truck, and he came back. But and then the sad thing
• 36:00
  was in his trial only one person showed up. Uh. I'm trying to
• 36:06
  remember that. It was Jay Osmond, one of the I can't remember.
• 36:09
  It was one of the projects. I can't remember, but episodes going up
• 36:15
  later. Well, it'll be up out. Yeah, you got to check
• 36:17
  that out. Clapton, pretend like you never knew nobody, nobody, you
• 36:24
  know. That's the reason like Joel wanted to write this book, is like
• 36:28
  is to at least put some kind of understanding of the mental illness and and
• 36:34
  kind of got the whole story. And I've written about Jim Gordon myself a
• 36:38
  couple of different times. Yeah, because he he's being whitewashed from from musical
• 36:45
  history, and I don't think that's entirely fair, because I don't know how
• 36:50
  we can celebrate I'm not going to name names, but I don't know how
• 36:52
  we can celebrate certain musicians who were quite fan pedophiles. You know, if
• 37:02
  you're dating a thirteen year old girl and you're twenty nine, thirty years old,
• 37:08
  I don't know, man, that's that. I don't know that.
• 37:10
  That's a little weird. In my book, we celebrate these guys. Michael
• 37:15
  Jackson's another one. We celebrate these guys. But he's a guy who was
• 37:17
  legitimately ill. Right, his fingerprint is all over classic rock, all over
• 37:25
  it. Yeah, he's on so many recordings. Imagine hearing voices every day.
• 37:30
  And then then the only thing that stopped it, settled it the voices
• 37:36
  was when he did coke or coke and and alcohol together, something like it
• 37:39
  did something with a dopamine. It was like something that at least for a
• 37:45
  short period, helped. But then then he didn't even go to his parole.
• 37:50
  He he was up for parole anytime. He didn't even show up.
• 37:52
  So he passed away in March of twenty twenty three in prison. Yeah.
• 37:58
  Yeah, tragic story all around. And yeah, you had Joel on your
• 38:06
  show, right, I did I have him on. I had him on
• 38:07
  the show to talk about that book because that was I just think Jim Gordon
• 38:13
  is an amazing artist, you know. Yes, I can't emphasize that enough.
• 38:22
  His fingerprint is everywhere Steely, Dan Jackson, Brown Rickeys, every Beatle,
• 38:28
  every Beetle except Paul McCartney, the Monkeys, almost any band that you
• 38:36
  can think of between the years, Yeah, sixty five, sixty six through
• 38:42
  seventy seven, seventy eight, you know, and everyone's like, well,
• 38:45
  and Itone's like, oh, I don't know who that is. It's like,
• 38:46
  yeah, you do. Because he wrote the piano coda to Laila,
• 38:51
  and he was so good that people, even when he was starting to cause
• 38:53
  a lot of problems because of his illness, people are still bringing him into
• 38:59
  the studio because he was that good. Yeah. I love the I love
• 39:02
  the Tom Petty story. Yeah, that's pretty cool. That was like that
• 39:07
  was in between mud Crutch and the first album that, and then he doubled
• 39:12
  up the drums, which the other impossible task. Yeah. The other one
• 39:15
  was a six inch crater that he put into the drum a snare drum on
• 39:22
  one of the songs I think it was, was it You're syl Vain?
• 39:25
  Like he just hit it so hard. I don't call that. Yeah,
• 39:30
  yeah, man, Yeah. Tell me about this book, Lords of Chaos
• 39:32
  by Michael moynihan and Didric soder Lind. This is about Norwegian death metal.
• 39:39
  Yeah, that's it's a really I read about half that book because there's a
• 39:45
  comedian by the name of Dave Hill who tell us a story. It just
• 39:50
  began a correspondence with some guys who ran a death metal label in Switzerland and
• 40:00
  Norway. I get those countries mixed up, but he began those really just
• 40:09
  absurd correspondence with the label head and he did an episode with I think it
• 40:17
  was whatever Malcolm Gladwell's podcast is. In any event, it's a book about
• 40:24
  Norwegian death metal. And these are people who celebrate metal to a degree that
• 40:31
  you can't even wrap your head around. They'll kill that they have killed themselves.
• 40:35
  There was a period where they would burn churches like these hundreds of year
• 40:39
  old would churches, they'd burned them to the ground. One guy, I
• 40:46
  forget their names, but and they'll record one album, never tour and that's
• 40:52
  it. It's almost spinal Tappian in a way. But these guys are really
• 41:00
  committed to it. It reminds me of who's that artist. He's from the
• 41:05
  US, but he was like that and he would like just take a dump
• 41:08
  on stage and g G Allen Allen, Yeah, that's crazy, he's crazy.
• 41:17
  Yeah, And these guys are crazy too, and they and the book
• 41:22
  takes a tongue in cheek approach but doesn't discount the burning of the churches,
• 41:27
  the suicides, the violent behavior. It's it's not for everybody, and it
• 41:36
  clearly wasn't for me because I didn't finish it. But what's the link you
• 41:39
  sent me to? The Black Metal Dialogues? Is that hell stuff? That's
• 41:44
  that's the comedian Dave Hill communicating with a band member and label head. And
• 41:50
  the name of Dave Hill's band is witch Taint, exactly Nixed Taint. Yeah,
• 42:05
  I'm looking at it here. What is all? So are these entries
• 42:07
  that he wrote? These these are a long time ago. Two thousand and
• 42:12
  four yeah, correspondents. I had Dave on the show as well to talk
• 42:15
  about that. And what is is this his writing? Is it's him correspond
• 42:20
  It's an actual correspondence with this guy in Norway. I guess it was who
• 42:23
  was in this band? And Dave Hill, as the lead singer of witch
• 42:30
  Taint, keeps calling, keeps calling this other guy's band that there are a
• 42:34
  bunch of pussies that they're not they're not metal enough, they're not dark enough.
• 42:38
  And I think he says he's from Gary, Indiana. He's not.
• 42:44
  Dave lives in Brooklyn. Okay, So like the first one here from mister
• 42:51
  lou Rawls at aol dot com to email, that's him, Okay to say
• 42:59
  tim the email addresses removed, but anyway, yeah, he's so what was
• 43:05
  he emailing a band? Because he's like, hey, miss missed miss guys.
• 43:12
  Yeah, I got your email off the internet. I was surprised someone
• 43:14
  in a black metal band would use email, but whatever. I guess we
• 43:16
  can't expect I guess we can't expect you guys to live in caves all the
• 43:20
  time. If you're serious about black metal, you would though. Anyway,
• 43:24
  the reason I'm writing is because I was wondering if there were two bands called
• 43:29
  Mysticom or something. The reason I asked is because my friend told me about
• 43:31
  a band called Mysticum that were really heavy and extreme and that I should totally
• 43:37
  check them out. So I went out and bought your record and all I
• 43:40
  got was this total pussy metal instead. Is there another band called Mysticum that
• 43:45
  I should know about. I'm really into super heavy and extreme black metal,
• 43:49
  so if there is another Mysticum that plays this kind of music, I would
• 43:52
  really like to know. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure tons of chicks
• 43:54
  dig what you guys are doing, but I'm into some serious shit, not
• 43:59
  the strummy bull shit you guys seem to be into. Anyway, let me
• 44:01
  know if you ever heard of these guys. Are you guys at MTV?
• 44:07
  Did they respond? They did? Oh they did dialogue? Oh my god.
• 44:12
  Hi. First of all, I find your email a bit bare faced
• 44:15
  and strange, but I have decided to answer you anyway. You have now
• 44:17
  come to the label address to the extreme mystical band We've never heard about the
• 44:22
  pussy ones you mentioned about. Label name is Planet Satan Revolution check out,
• 44:28
  and they're still plugging themselves check out mysticum dot com under releases link. You
• 44:32
  can download the debut album from nineteen ninety five for free. They're like promoting
• 44:37
  themselves there. Do they not get it? There? You can hear uh,
• 44:40
  they're trying to rise above it. It looks like, oh yeah,
• 44:46
  they try. Living in a cave has nothing to do with black metal at
• 44:51
  all. As long as you are dealing with satanic and occult things, believe
• 44:54
  in what you are doing, you can do whatever you want. Of course,
• 44:58
  mysticm has never been an MTV and will never be. Such music are
• 45:01
  not loved by the MTV crew and too extreme and too extreme to be on
• 45:06
  a channel that only sends crappy, happy, salud shit dark regards. Oh
• 45:09
  so then it just kind of it goes back and forth and gets worse and
• 45:12
  worse. I get you. Eventually they reach a tipping point. They do.
• 45:16
  I think, well, I don't want to spoil it, but they
• 45:20
  do reach a tipping point, and it's just hysterical how far it goes and
• 45:25
  what the book does it has. It really does take on the dark metal
• 45:32
  world, which is pretty dark. Like I said, burning churches, suicides,
• 45:37
  self cutting, that sort of stuff. All right, So that's the
• 45:43
  Black Metaldialogues dot com if anybody's interested, and you shouldn't because it's some if
• 45:47
  you love music, it's one of the I was at work and I don't
• 45:52
  know how. I think I got it from the Malcolm Gladwell interview on Broken
• 45:54
  Record. I'm like, oh, this is I was crying as I'm listening
• 45:59
  to Dave Helle talk about it, and then I started reading it. I
• 46:00
  just started crying even more. I'm like, this is amazing. Yeah,
• 46:05
  because at first it's like he's just trying to He's trying to navigate through,
• 46:07
  like this is this guy an asshole? Or is he? The book down
• 46:14
  Rock Podcasts will be back after this. You're a big fan of the Replacements
• 46:20
  and you say the book Trouble Boys by Bob Mayer is a must read.
• 46:23
  Here's what the promo for that book says. Based on a decade of research
• 46:27
  and reporting, as well as access to the replacements key principles Paul Westerberg and
• 46:31
  Tommy Stinton, author Bob Maher has fashioned something far more compelling than a conventional
• 46:36
  band bio. Yeah, what's tell us about this one? Here, it's
• 46:42
  a comprehensive book on my favorite band, and it's until one of them it
• 46:47
  elects to write their own autobiography or have a biography written about them. It
• 46:52
  is about as definitive as you can get, and it's an exhaustive approach to
• 46:58
  the band. So it's not too dissimilar from that Led Zeppelin book that came
• 47:02
  out a couple of years ago, not the one that we all know,
• 47:07
  Hammer of the Gods. That's spit wall Street. What's the I think I
• 47:14
  know what you're referring to. Yeah, it came out a couple of years
• 47:16
  ago. It's very it's definitive. It's you know, and if you're a
• 47:22
  Replacements fan, you can't do better. And to get the band to talk
• 47:29
  is no easy task. Paul Westerberg is notoriously prickly. Yeah, you know.
• 47:37
  Yeah, I'm trying to think of that book now, the Zepplin book.
• 47:40
  But yeah, and it says you're in the promo though, that the
• 47:43
  Replacements were notoriously self destructive. How bad did it get? Well? Self
• 47:52
  destructive they were. They were their own worst enemies. I mean that,
• 47:58
  Oh sw a loud and who was just on the show he talked about back
• 48:02
  up a second on the Abandoned album's podcast. There are three two bands that
• 48:08
  pop up the most. It's the Pixies and the Replacements. And you're almost
• 48:13
  an either or fan. You're either a Replacements fan or you're a Pixies fan,
• 48:17
  which isn't universally true, but in any event, those bands pop up
• 48:22
  more than any other bands. And I had sw Laudanon and he was talking
• 48:27
  about his experience seeing them live and it's at University of California, Santa Barbara,
• 48:34
  I think, And they came out and something happened where Paul ended up
• 48:40
  fell off the riser and just decided to perform the show on the floor on
• 48:47
  ground level without a microphone for everybody, and everybody eats that stuff up.
• 48:53
  They're like, oh my god, this is amazing, amazing. Another story.
• 48:57
  I don't know if it's in that book. I think it's in the
• 49:00
  book Our Band Could Be Your Life. Peter Jesperson, who was their original
• 49:05
  manager. It's like right after they got signed to Sire, they went on
• 49:12
  the road and they decided to buy themselves at Winnebago or rent a Winnebago so
• 49:16
  they could travel a little more luxurious than they have been. And they hadn't
• 49:24
  made it maybe sixty seventy five miles outside of Minneapolis, and they had ripped
• 49:30
  out all the furniture inside the Winnebago. Somebody had brought spray paint and they
• 49:35
  were spray painting the inside of the Winnebago. And at that time Jessperson was
• 49:38
  no longer the manager, he was the tour manager. So he called the
• 49:42
  managers and he's like, you guys just bought a Winnebago, Like we talked
• 49:49
  about, we just rented a Winnobago. He's like, no, proceeds to
• 49:52
  explain to them what the band just did to the Winnebago. They're their own
• 49:57
  worst enemy. The one time time they tried to be successful that they the
• 50:02
  one time they played by the rules was oh don't tell a Soul, which
• 50:10
  is many replacements fans least favorite record. But I like it mainstream sounding.
• 50:22
  It's got a real glossy sheen to the sound, which which which which was
• 50:28
  unusual. The songs themselves are pretty good. Paul Westerberg's Dyslexic Heart was I
• 50:34
  always like that song from the singles m hmm soundtrack, and I thought,
• 50:39
  man, that's that's that's a cool That's I don't want to see rock,
• 50:43
  but it's it's I mean, of our generation. He's radio single, incredible
• 50:47
  word wordsmith. He's just incredible as a lyricist, and he how do they
• 50:55
  shoot themselves in the foot? It's hard, I mean, drink themselves to
• 51:00
  a stupor go out not play a complete song before they go into a cover
• 51:07
  of I don't know a Johnny Cash song that they won't play the full cover
• 51:09
  of. They're just that's Eppen book. By the way, I think Bob
• 51:15
  Spitz is the one you're referring. That's the one Spitz. Yeah, yeah,
• 51:20
  it's a lot like that. Those two books are very similar in that
• 51:22
  they're exhaustive and they had the participation of the people, yep, which I
• 51:29
  think makes a difference. Now the book is Leon Russell The Master of Space
• 51:32
  and Times Journey through Rock and Roll History by Bill Janovitz of the band Buffalo
• 51:37
  Tom. Leon Russell is an icon, but so underappreciated, so it says
• 51:44
  Javanovitz, and that, yeah, that's hard argue. He really is underappreciated
• 51:49
  when you think all this stuff he did, not just as a musician,
• 51:51
  but he had that he had that studio that he brought a lot of musicians
• 51:55
  in sky Hill. Yeah and yeah, I have not read I have not
• 52:01
  read this book. And I remember I wanted to. I try to get
• 52:06
  Bill on and I wasn't able to. But he worked with everybody like Sinatra,
• 52:14
  h I mean, but he had artists working around the clock. Like
• 52:20
  there was one story about I wasn't able to read an excerpt and there was
• 52:22
  a guy saying it was Thanksgiving Day and he had no clue because they were
• 52:28
  just recording twenty four to seven. It was like he didn't even know what
• 52:30
  day it was. And somebody was like, why are you here? He's
• 52:35
  like, you know, I'm just I'm always here working on news. It's
• 52:38
  Thanksgiving. Oh I didn't know. Really, I had no idea. And
• 52:45
  what was the other one? Oh? Well, the story behind a song
• 52:50
  for you that on Spotify that's the most played song, and it's thought to
• 52:53
  be about Rita Coolidge, at least partially because she worked with him and then
• 52:59
  they were also antically involved. She said it was about her, but Leon
• 53:04
  said it wasn't. And it's likely about Greg Dempsey, who co wrote songs
• 53:08
  of Leon in nineteen seventy or on the nineteen seventy self titled debut Leon album.
• 53:15
  This is an excerpt from the book I Found Leon never publicly divulged the
• 53:20
  inspiration for A Song for You. Don Williams, who had become head of
• 53:22
  music publishing at Shelter Records that year, theorized that it was Greg Dempsey who
• 53:28
  was the subject in A Song for You. I honestly believe that it has
• 53:31
  to do with the songwriting relationship between Leon and Greg, he said. Leon
• 53:36
  gave credence to this idea when he hinted years later quote, I wrote that
• 53:39
  song in ten minutes. I wrote it for somebody that I had an argument
• 53:44
  with that I didn't want to have an argument with. I wrote that song
• 53:47
  so I could sing it for him. The person was very instrumental in teaching
• 53:52
  me about songwriting and writing in general. And yeah, him is the biggest
• 53:57
  hint there. Yeah, for sure, ye read a cool age didn't go
• 54:01
  through a gender transition. Yeah, I mean a lot of times it could
• 54:05
  be a compositive of people too. Sure, you know that could always Leon's
• 54:12
  son in law, friend and collaborator Matt Harris, said that Leon told him
• 54:15
  privately that Dempsey was the inspiration. Leon said, I was living with my
• 54:19
  friends they were a couple. Dempsey and Yesie that was somebody and I carry
• 54:24
  call I forget who, Yes he is the last name. They were fighting
• 54:28
  and I was sleeping on the couch. I was a third wheel. I
• 54:30
  wrote it to both of them. When I talk about the bridge, you
• 54:32
  taught me precious secrets of a truth with holding nothing. That's about songwriting.
• 54:37
  He taught me how to write a song. He taught me how to put
• 54:40
  it together, to talk about the truth and to be honest. This was
• 54:44
  my love letter to them as a couple of how much I love them.
• 54:46
  It's not about a girl. So yeah, it's like a composite of maybe
• 54:50
  both. Leon Man, what a what an awesome voice too. He had
• 54:55
  that look that the big the hat. I think I think doctor John was
• 55:01
  like the first maybe to have that look, and then Leon and then the
• 55:07
  guy from Leading skinnered the bassist. Yeah uh Leam Wilkinson, that's it.
• 55:13
  Yeah, yeah, yeah man Love skinnered You played with Russell? Yes he
• 55:20
  did, he he did? That was Yeah. It was like they were
• 55:23
  crossing paths a lot back in those days. As your dog scratching himself back
• 55:29
  to rufus. What's up? Man? Look at that face sadly. He's
• 55:36
  getting up there in age. Huh is he or he's he's he's gravely ill.
• 55:43
  Yeah, yeah, rufus. What's up, buddy, he's got a
• 55:46
  tour in his bladder that they can Yeah, well he's he's hanging with you.
• 55:52
  It looks like he's yeah, yeah, it's a matter of day.
• 55:59
  Is at this point? Oh I'm sorry. Yeah, trying to make them
• 56:02
  comfy as possible. Yeah. One other book you mentioned, Our Band Could
• 56:07
  Be Your Life by Michael Azarad. What is this one about? That's a
• 56:12
  book that's about all these college bands, you remember, college rock, College
• 56:17
  Rock, Rim Whoskerdo, Black Flag, Fugazi, the Replacements, How they
• 56:30
  served as their own not touring community, you know, in that they were
• 56:38
  all trying to achieve the same thing. And I don't think any of them
• 56:43
  had any aspirations to be rock stars per se. They just wanted to be
• 56:46
  self sustaining musicians. And each one, each chapter is a focus on the
• 56:55
  band and their tour, and it always overlaps like the minute and would overlap
• 57:00
  with Black Flag because they're on the West coast doing the West coast tours.
• 57:06
  RM and the Replacements were good friends. They would stay at you know,
• 57:09
  Peter Buck's place in Athens when they'd go through there. It's all about as
• 57:15
  It's about community really and supporting one another. It's a fascinating read if you
• 57:23
  like those bands. You know, Yeah, I miss Rim. It's gonna
• 57:28
  bum when they called the quits. But I think they called the quits for
• 57:30
  the right reasons. It was time, they said. But I think they
• 57:34
  were still making great music right up until the end. I lost interest sometimes
• 57:39
  in early aughts. Yeah. Yeah. They signed the biggest record deal of
• 57:44
  all time in the nineties at that time. Yeah, yeah, it's huge.
• 57:49
  A book that makes your list of favorites is the biggest selling rock related
• 57:52
  book of all time Daisy Jones and the Six This but it's a fictional story
• 57:59
  loosely based on Steam Nixon. Lindsay Buckingham Stevie commented on it. Actually,
• 58:02
  she said, quote it brought back memories that made me feel like a ghost
• 58:06
  watching my own story. Oh well, if you include fictional books on music,
• 58:10
  it's the best selling of all time, over two million copies sold,
• 58:15
  which is mind blowing because I remember asking an author once what's a good number,
• 58:20
  and they said, like two hundred and fifty thousand, five hundred,
• 58:23
  you're like blown away two million in fact, if you remove that and just
• 58:29
  go with nonfiction. Tom Petty's biography by Warren Zan's called Petty two hundred thousand
• 58:35
  plus soult. That's number one. And Warren was on this podcast to talk
• 58:38
  about his book on Nebraska Springsteen's Nebraska. What an awesome guy, super intelligent,
• 58:45
  very nice. Yeah, yeah, Petty's book is one, and you
• 58:51
  know what's quickly become number two? My f in Life, Geddy Lee.
• 58:55
  That is a fantastic book I get. Yeah. Yeah. The Heroin Diaries
• 59:01
  is three. What's that? That's Nikky six? Yeah, I think yeah.
• 59:09
  Acid for the Children, a memoir that's flee Heavier than Heaven. The
• 59:15
  biography of Kurt Cobain. That's by Charles R. Cross Life by how many
• 59:22
  of those writers? The writers only Warren Zanes don't believe. I wish I
• 59:31
  could say, had Getty lay Getty? Want to come on on? Jed
• 59:37
  what else? Come on? Yeah? Kicking, Kicking and Dreaming the Story
• 59:40
  of Heart, Soul and Rock and Roll by Ian Wilson and see them back
• 59:46
  together on tour. Iron Man that's by Tony Iomi. Another recent one is
• 59:52
  surrendered by Bono. That's two Wow, it has already been two years.
• 1:00:00
  Yeah, did you read that? No, I want to. I listened
• 1:00:04
  to it. I didn't read it. But here's all I'll say about that.
• 1:00:10
  He's Irish. Irish. Irish folks are known for weaving a good yarn.
• 1:00:15
  Oh yeah, there's a particular story in there where he talks about how
• 1:00:19
  Michael Gorbachev just showed up at his house one Sunday afternoon and he had forgotten
• 1:00:23
  to tell his wife that one of the single most important people of the twentieth
• 1:00:29
  century is coming over to the house. I didn't buy it for a fucking
• 1:00:32
  second. I'm sure there's all sorts of security protocol that went into place.
• 1:00:37
  I don't believe. Like it's like like Michael's just coming over to have a
• 1:00:40
  cup of coffee at lunch and I forgot to tell the wife, which is
• 1:00:45
  how he presents it, And I'm like, come on, it's way more
• 1:00:49
  involved. I'm not buying it. That being said, it's a great story.
• 1:00:53
  Yeah, it's fantastic to listen to and read. I love you too,
• 1:00:58
  Yeah, I love you too. What was somebody? God? What
• 1:01:00
  did I hear? Somebody was talking about interviewing Gene Simmons, and he kept
• 1:01:10
  pointing out the fact that in Jean's book there was some incorrect information, like
• 1:01:17
  he was talking about a band that opened for Kiss in some certain year and
• 1:01:22
  He's like, that wasn't the band and it was a different year. And
• 1:01:23
  Jeane was just starting to get a little pissed. That's not about the book.
• 1:01:29
  The books about a kid who grew up from nothing and became something.
• 1:01:32
  You know, because I actually do a pretty good you're very handsome and charming,
• 1:01:38
  man, But yeah, that a lot a lot of those dudes.
• 1:01:42
  Man, they don't remember what the hell happened. Boy' I'm trying to remember
• 1:01:46
  who was it that was pressing him on that. Oh my god, I
• 1:01:50
  can't remember. But anyway, Yeah, tell us about this book, triptich
• 1:01:55
  Three Studies of Manic Street Preachers. Did I pronounce that right? He did?
• 1:02:00
  Yeah. The Holy Bible by Larissa wad Key, Rianne Jones, and
• 1:02:06
  Daniel Lucas. It's all based on their third album called The Holy Bible.
• 1:02:12
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and it takes an academic approach, a
• 1:02:17
  less academic approach, and a more casual approach. That's cool, that's interesting.
• 1:02:24
  Man, that's a really cool concept. And if you know the album,
• 1:02:30
  I just said it to somebody, the Guys and Sons of Silver yesterday.
• 1:02:35
  It was like, it's the sound of somebody losing their mind. So
• 1:02:37
  it's worthy of academic study. And so it's it's just those three different angles
• 1:02:45
  and presentations. It's somewhat akin to if you've ever seen the Neil Brennan stand
• 1:02:50
  up special called three Mics, No he does. He has three mics up
• 1:02:54
  on the stage, where one mic is for stick jokes, you know,
• 1:03:00
  like knock knock jokes or you know, just standard set up, punchline,
• 1:03:06
  set up punchline, second one or a little bit more elaborate jokes, and
• 1:03:09
  the third the third mic is for more monology type stuff that's more cerebral,
• 1:03:15
  you know. And so it's sort of akin to that, and that there
• 1:03:19
  are three different approaches to examining this one record that to me is probably one
• 1:03:24
  of the greatest records of our generation. Well, I've got to listen to
• 1:03:29
  it because I I've never listened to it, and I see I think it's
• 1:03:31
  on Spotify. It is it should be. Yeah, I'll check that out.
• 1:03:37
  But see, that's part of the one of the many reasons I love
• 1:03:39
  doing this podcast is I don't want to just talk about the bands and artists
• 1:03:43
  I know, I want to learn about more. Yeah. Yeah, that
• 1:03:49
  it's an endless list. It's an endless search to which I love. It's
• 1:03:53
  like, okay, fine, give me Like there are bands that came and
• 1:03:58
  went during a time when I could have certainly been aware of them and really
• 1:04:02
  invested time in him that I didn't, and then years later I do the
• 1:04:06
  book Down Rock Podcasts will be back after this. A few more books on
• 1:04:13
  your list. Tim Summers, The Hooting and the Blowfish Book, and Making
• 1:04:16
  Rumors, The Inside Story of the classic Fleetwood Mac album by Ken Kalay,
• 1:04:20
  the co producer of the album. The promo for the book lists some of
• 1:04:25
  the stories, including a shouting match between Stevie and Lindsay during You Make Loving
• 1:04:29
  Fun. Do you remember the story? I don't remember the story. Now
• 1:04:32
  we can imagine it, though we're not surprised. I do remember. I
• 1:04:39
  seem to recall them. We all know the salacious stories, but the making
• 1:04:44
  of the record was far more arduous than than I think we we can even
• 1:04:48
  imagine. But they still they still did it and made one of the greatest
• 1:04:54
  pieces of recorded music, I think. But it what he does is he
• 1:05:01
  takes it from an engineer's approach. So there's some technical stuff about what kind
• 1:05:05
  of board they were working on and all that sort of stuff that kind of
• 1:05:10
  lost me. But yeah, it's just it's just when you think you've heard
• 1:05:15
  everything or read everything that there is to know about the book or about the
• 1:05:20
  making of that record and the band, along comes this book. So that
• 1:05:26
  was good. He did another one on Tusk. Did he did? He
• 1:05:30
  did him and Aaron Rojas, who was one of the I think I believe
• 1:05:34
  that one of the engineers for Rumors as well in Tusk. So that's another
• 1:05:41
  great book. I had both of them on way back in the early early
• 1:05:45
  days of the podcast. Really yes, great stories and Aaron and Rojas when
• 1:05:53
  we were chatting off off air, he was saying that he was one of
• 1:05:59
  the people at the studio in I want to say New York or La Prop
• 1:06:05
  maybe La that when Gene Simmons produced the Van Halen Demos. Aaronem was there
• 1:06:14
  like a young assistant engineer or whatever, and he's and he I remember he
• 1:06:19
  said to me, but yeah, he goes. I remember seeing Eddie Van
• 1:06:23
  Halen an eighteen year old Eddie walking down the hall with the guitar in his
• 1:06:26
  hand, looking just like just a kid. I was like, get out,
• 1:06:30
  and I said, you know, if you ever want to talk about
• 1:06:32
  that some more, let me know. He said, oh yeah, But
• 1:06:34
  we never followed up. But I think it would have been because Jane was
• 1:06:40
  working on those songs that in both La and New York. I think have
• 1:06:46
  those songs ever seen the light of day? Not officially, but they're online.
• 1:06:50
  Oh they are, Yeah, and you could tell they sound like a
• 1:06:53
  little more of like a kiss lean to them. They're they're more polished.
• 1:06:58
  Whereas Templeman was able to get the band the essence of the band live yeah
• 1:07:04
  on tape. Yeah, I just I'm trying to remember the Van Hillen demos
• 1:07:13
  there was in New York. I want to say it was Electric Ladyland,
• 1:07:17
  that's too that lace. Yeah, it was in two different places. But
• 1:07:21
  when he's just describing just like a little kid, you know, like Eddie
• 1:07:26
  like okay, you know, like just sighing, like what are we doing?
• 1:07:30
  You know? Where do you need me to record? Yeah? I
• 1:07:34
  got to remember the two New York City they were demo in New York.
• 1:07:42
  Yeah, the Van Hillen demos. Yeah, it was it Electric Lady Land
• 1:07:46
  okay, mm hmm. I think Yournon was there. Uh yeah. What
• 1:07:51
  else do we have here? A few books that can oh, the the
• 1:07:57
  the Yeah, do you want to talk about that? The who do You
• 1:08:00
  You Were? A book right within the last few years. What that's within
• 1:08:03
  the last few years that came out? It has yeah, the last His
• 1:08:06
  story is fascinating and and it's tragic across the board. We all know who.
• 1:08:14
  He and the Blowfish a jillion million selling recording on the record of Boston's
• 1:08:18
  debut album. Yeah, albums copy sold. It's just it's a great record.
• 1:08:25
  But Tim's path it's interesting. And Tim, if you ever hear this,
• 1:08:30
  I apologize in advance for telling your story. But he he was an
• 1:08:35
  an R guy for Atlantic Records, went out to Seattle. Seattle was just
• 1:08:42
  bubbling, just beginning to bubble. And I'm not even sure if Nirvana and
• 1:08:48
  Pearl Jim I think Mother Lovebone had been signed, so it was just beginning.
• 1:08:54
  So he went out there and he ran across a band called the Gits.
• 1:08:57
  G I t s the Gits and fell in love with them, thought
• 1:09:01
  they were great, wanted to sign them. I'm going to speed the story
• 1:09:06
  up, just just a scoosh wanted to sign them, They agreed to sign
• 1:09:11
  He went out to sign them, and like that. I think it was
• 1:09:15
  the night before the lead singer, Miya Zapata had been murdered, raped and
• 1:09:20
  murdered. Wow. Yeah, and that's a big that's a big Seattle thing.
• 1:09:26
  They still in fact, the guy who raped and murdered her was just
• 1:09:30
  caught and convicted in the past five years, I want to say five or
• 1:09:33
  ten years, but that was a lot of a lot of Seattle bands after
• 1:09:38
  Seattle rose to prominence, would still support that support the cause of finding him,
• 1:09:44
  finding the killer. So he lost it. He lost that. He
• 1:09:47
  wasn't couldn't sign him. The lead singer's dead, you know, came back
• 1:09:53
  to New York all dejected. Somebody casually just sort of handed him this envelope
• 1:09:58
  with hooting the blowfish and then down MONI. He's like, I don't want
• 1:10:00
  to hear this. I don't want to listen to this right now. He's
• 1:10:02
  sad. He's sad because somebody he knew got murdered and you know, and
• 1:10:09
  uh put it in fell in love with it and signed them, but he
• 1:10:17
  met so much resistance with Atlantic Records. He took it to his boss after
• 1:10:26
  the album, after they'd finished Cracked Rearview, he took it to his boss
• 1:10:30
  and his boss said, it's unreleasable. We can't release this. It's unreleasable.
• 1:10:35
  Yeah, that's exactly I'm sorry. I don't mean lad that. The
• 1:10:40
  person who said that, he's away if you read it, if you consuld
• 1:10:45
  like fifteen million copies. So Tim was so so convinced that this was a
• 1:10:53
  this was a good album. He went above him. He had a relationship
• 1:10:56
  with the boss above him, so he went to him and said, listen.
• 1:11:00
  He said, we can't release this, but I think we should release
• 1:11:02
  this. And I forget who it was, I'd say it was the head
• 1:11:04
  of Atlantic. He goes, Tim, if you think it's worth releasing,
• 1:11:08
  then we'll release it. How about that. I met the same kind of
• 1:11:12
  resistance, And at the time Atlantic was struggling, Krack comes out sells a
• 1:11:16
  bajillion copies, keeps the lights on at Atlantic Records. When they go to
• 1:11:21
  recruit record the follow up, he meets with not the same resistance, but
• 1:11:29
  still resistance. And he doesn't say it, but you can't help but wonder
• 1:11:33
  if there isn't just some kind of racial aspect to it, you know,
• 1:11:39
  But it's a great story how he got his career, how he got that
• 1:11:44
  side of his career and found his success tragic. It's and it's It makes
• 1:11:49
  for a great read. If you like HOODI I like HOODI I do,
• 1:11:54
  I do, And I'm going to tell you Fairweather Johnson. I love Tuckerstown,
• 1:11:58
  yeah, and I love Old Man and Me both great tunes, you
• 1:12:03
  know in Cracked review, Cracked rear view. You know, there's no arguing
• 1:12:09
  it. You know, it took me a while to warm up to it.
• 1:12:12
  I didn't. I think hold My Hand was the first single, so
• 1:12:14
  I was like, yeah, same, but only want to be with You
• 1:12:16
  was I think when I was like yeah yeah, And then time I Love
• 1:12:20
  Drowning, So I said, okay, let me let me get the whole
• 1:12:23
  thing. I got the CD, and you know what an interesting story they
• 1:12:27
  did, like a whole second life for Darius Rutger, right right, yeah,
• 1:12:31
  And I think who do you? I think he goes back and Fortheen
• 1:12:34
  too, because I remember who do he? Coming around our way here in
• 1:12:36
  Connecticut and played at Toad's Place in New Haven. Just a small club,
• 1:12:41
  Yeah they do. I think they're gearing up for a tour. I think
• 1:12:46
  it's in twenty twenty four. Okay, yeah, well it's well that makes
• 1:12:51
  sense because Cracked Rearview was released in July ninety four, so that would be
• 1:12:57
  an anniversary. I think I seem to recall reading that. I bet if
• 1:13:02
  you did a quick search on Hoodi and the Blowfish Tour, you'd find did
• 1:13:06
  you hear post Malones? He re recorded only want to Be with You and
• 1:13:12
  instead of the Dolphins make Me cry, Cowboys make cry because he's a Dallas
• 1:13:15
  Cowboys fan. Okay, yeah, I'm a big Post Malone fan. I
• 1:13:20
  I yeah. Interesting. H Let's see what are they touring? Let's see
• 1:13:27
  what they got for Yeah, in twenty twenty nineteen to present new music and
• 1:13:32
  tour. I don't see anything current could be wrong. This is just this
• 1:13:39
  is Wikipedia. So yeah. A few books that came to mind when I
• 1:13:43
  asked you which ones you want to read but haven't yet? Altamont by Joel
• 1:13:48
  Salvin, I have to read that one, and you Florick Recall by Peter
• 1:13:55
  Jaspersons yep and then books okay, and then books you'd like to see written
• 1:14:01
  that haven't been yet. You say, a book on sol Asylum. Tell
• 1:14:04
  me about these guys, man, you're a huge fan. Yeah, They're
• 1:14:09
  kind of remind me, like, I think this might be your version,
• 1:14:11
  Like I'm that's my Blue Traveler is my okay? Like I love Blue Traveler,
• 1:14:15
  you know. And sol Asylum you talk about a band that was,
• 1:14:20
  uh they Dave Perner was on a cover Rolling Stone at one point. He
• 1:14:26
  was. And he still writes great songs. I mean he really, he
• 1:14:30
  really does. Is sol Asylum still active or is he solo? The sol
• 1:14:35
  Asylum is still active, however, it's he is the only member. They
• 1:14:44
  have a work ethic that is unparalleled as far as I'm concerned. You know,
• 1:14:47
  I bet if I sent being facetious, But I bet if I sent
• 1:14:53
  Dave Perner an email and said, hey, you want to come play an
• 1:14:57
  acoustic show in my apartment, he'd be like, Okay, yeah, sure,
• 1:15:00
  you know I say that facetiously. I don't think he ever would.
• 1:15:04
  But they just work. That's what he does. And they took a long
• 1:15:10
  time to get to that point where they were really big. They formed in
• 1:15:13
  the early eighties. Well, they came up with the Replacements nineteen eighty one.
• 1:15:17
  They came up and they were part of that whole group. In fact,
• 1:15:20
  Dave Perner went to high school with Tommy Stinson, who's the bass player
• 1:15:24
  for the Replacements before Tommy dropped out. But that's something else altogether. He
• 1:15:30
  was in his thirties by the time they finally made it big. Yeah,
• 1:15:33
  And it was before they had just gotten dropped by A and M. Columbia
• 1:15:38
  took him just as a wing and a prayer, like, all right,
• 1:15:42
  we'll sign you for one album, and that happened to be Grave Dancers Union.
• 1:15:48
  I just trained a great man. They work really hard. They Dave
• 1:15:53
  Perner writes good songs. And here's my thing with Dave Perner. When your
• 1:15:57
  contemporaries are Bob Mool, Bob Mold, Oh, I think you wrote it
• 1:16:08
  in the in the email to me. Let me see if I Prince Bob
• 1:16:12
  Mold, Oh yeah, Prince Bob Mold and Paul Westerberg are your contemporaries.
• 1:16:16
  It's hard to rise above that. That's hard, that's hard to get noticed
• 1:16:21
  and and lording over everyone is Bob Dylan. It's from Minnesota as well,
• 1:16:28
  So that's it's tough, but he did, he still managed to rise up.
• 1:16:32
  I don't know. I think Soul Asylum is a wickedly, wickedly underrated
• 1:16:36
  and overlooked bad and before Grave Dancers Union there were one, two, three,
• 1:16:42
  four, five studio albums, a few on Twin Tone, and I
• 1:16:46
  think three on an M A, M. Yep A and M is Blues
• 1:16:50
  Traveler too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, good stuff, man. Another
• 1:16:57
  book you'd like to see written is a deep dive into why some and don't
• 1:17:00
  break in America, like The tragically Hip from Canada Mani Street Preachers, who
• 1:17:05
  are from the UK. You ask, is it marketing radio our taste?
• 1:17:10
  Probably a combination of all three that'd be a good book. Authors out there
• 1:17:15
  is your book idea? The tragically Hip? Why were they not big?
• 1:17:18
  Here? Yeah? There's absolutely those first three records, not a bad song
• 1:17:25
  on them, and they're straight up blues based rock and roll, can't go
• 1:17:28
  wrong. Yes, and their frontman I think, is right, he's no
• 1:17:34
  longer with us, No, he passed. And I remember hearing when when
• 1:17:39
  that happened. They're talking about like how much of a genius this guy was,
• 1:17:42
  and it's like, well, why don't I know more about him?
• 1:17:45
  Because we didn't. We don't live in a state that borders Canada, right
• 1:17:50
  right tragically. So yeah, so websites, social media, what do you
• 1:17:57
  want to get out there? Where can people? The Abandoned Albums podcast is
• 1:18:02
  available on all platforms. You can find Abandoned Albums on Instagram at Abandoned Underscore
• 1:18:13
  Albums or on the Facebook at Abandoned Albums Twitter. Don't do me personally,
• 1:18:21
  don't need I mean, it's easy enough if you know me, know how
• 1:18:24
  to get a hold of me. But yeah, the podcast works in twelve
• 1:18:30
  episode seasons, so we'll do twelve, take a couple of weeks off,
• 1:18:34
  come back with another twelve. And I also have the Mix and Match podcast,
• 1:18:41
  which is for everybody you know, and candidly, Eric, I think
• 1:18:46
  I'm gonna have to not do the songs anymore. I keep getting stuck in
• 1:18:50
  YouTube jail. We talked about that. I know, man, it sucks,
• 1:18:56
  and it's always universal, Yeah, it sucks. And and sometimes the
• 1:19:01
  audio only ones, you know, I ice to get those pulled down too.
• 1:19:04
  The Beatles episodes got pulled down a lot. Yeah it's YouTube, man,
• 1:19:11
  They yeah, they they don't play around with that stuff, especially if
• 1:19:14
  you if you monetize it. Now I've monetized my YouTube channel, so I
• 1:19:16
  don't mess around with that because I don't think I have. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:19:23
  Got to Get Back in Time is the most recent episode. So check
• 1:19:25
  that out. Wait for me. Springsteen on Love. The Boss gives love
• 1:19:30
  advice one hundred words. That's one of my one words. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:19:34
  yeah. So check out the web the website. That the website is
• 1:19:39
  abandoned Albums dot com, and that we also have a substack which you should
• 1:19:43
  sign up for. It's a substack dot abandoned Albums right, because I think
• 1:19:46
  I'm looking at the substack one. Oh. The abandoned Album's website is just
• 1:19:51
  the Yeah I got you yep, looking at it here. Yeah, And
• 1:19:56
  and a cool logo. You sent me a You sent me a shirt and
• 1:20:00
  a sticker and a business card. And I love it. I love it,
• 1:20:04
  love it, love it. Use the magnet. I think I threw
• 1:20:08
  a magnet. Yeah, the magnet too. I got it up on the
• 1:20:10
  I got it up on the old frigidaire. It's up there. Yeah.
• 1:20:12
  The only criteria I gave the the graphic designers like I like skulls. Literally,
• 1:20:20
  that's all I said. Yeah, yeah, that's what she came up.
• 1:20:25
  Yeah, it's really cool. I love it, love it. So
• 1:20:29
  thanks so much man for being on. This was cool. Thanks for having
• 1:20:31
  me on your podcast. And yeah we will. We will be in touch
• 1:20:35
  again down the road and we'll chat chat some more books, maybe even focus
• 1:20:41
  on a specific book or whatever. We'll just talk, right. You know,
• 1:20:44
  we should have a little music book club, Eric, Hell, yes,
• 1:20:47
  you know, get we can do a little at lease with have a
• 1:20:50
  few more people. Well, we talked about this idea taking the ESPN.
• 1:20:56
  We did. I first take the baits, get you get a mediator,
• 1:21:00
  kind of you know, neutral guy. That probably would be me because I'm
• 1:21:05
  the classic Gemini where I can't take one side. I'm always looking at both
• 1:21:09
  sides. And then you have these two opinionated dudes and you just go at
• 1:21:12
  it, you know, like a Stephen A. Smith. And then you
• 1:21:15
  have somebody else like a Shannon Charm talking music. Right. That's a great
• 1:21:18
  mom. Man's still there, Eric, Thank you. This was great fun.
• 1:21:31
  No, no, that was an adventure. I was quite assure you
• 1:21:35
  put on the thing. Well, let me just close this conversation by saying
• 1:21:40
  you are one unique individual,