Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Daemons (2/5)

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Talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Daemons (2/5) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back to a Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife, the Doctor Who
• 0:04
  Commentary podcast. And today we are studying things
• 0:09
  or all things are cult, the devil worshipping and the
• 0:14
  supernatural. Although Robert Valentine, my
• 0:17
  guest, assures me there is a scientific rationale for all of
• 0:22
  it to come. Hello, Rob.
• 0:24
  Hello. Or is there that's that, that is
• 0:27
  that is the question we should be asking for the next 4
• 0:29
  episodes. That's right.
• 0:30
  Well, hello, Joe. Hello, What a delightful time we
• 0:34
  had watching episode 1. I mean, we could barely contain
• 0:36
  ourselves as things were ramping up towards the cliffhanger.
• 0:40
  Well, episode 1 is a banger and episode 2 is pretty darn good if
• 0:44
  I recall. But.
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  I think you. Know, yeah, because I'm very
• 0:49
  keen on this one because it is a story I love and think of with
• 0:52
  fondness and drips with atmosphere and all that.
• 0:56
  I want to kind of like check myself this time to kind of see
• 1:00
  what I actually do think of it while watching it, if you know
• 1:05
  what I mean. I think there is a better single
• 1:08
  episode of The Demons than episode 1 though.
• 1:12
  Get ahead. It's not 2, but it is coming and
• 1:15
  we'll just cool we get there. Because I just think the
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  atmosphere and the set pieces in, oh fuck it, episode 4 are
• 1:22
  just all that sacrificial rapping stuff.
• 1:26
  Oh boy, oh boy. Well we will get there.
• 1:28
  Well look, the world has gone to hell.
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  The Doctor's been frozen. Professor Horner is dead.
• 1:34
  Should we go and find out what's what's gonna happen next?
• 1:37
  Yes. And what's more, it's all
• 1:39
  happened live on television. Yeah.
• 1:41
  Wonderful. Are they still watching then?
• 1:45
  Oh, they are at the start of this, aren't they?
• 1:47
  Yeah, she's. Going doctor?
• 1:48
  Yeah. Doctor and it cuts.
• 1:50
  Off. Well, let's, let's we can press
• 1:52
  play and we'll get there. Count us in then, for God's
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  sake, because I want to see what happens. 5431 as a one.
• 2:02
  EO ever wears all and. Then we go.
• 2:06
  Oh my God. Are we a bit?
• 2:09
  I don't understand how people can't get excited about this
• 2:12
  stuff. We aren't, we haven't.
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  We're not usually this excited for an.
• 2:16
  Absolutely love it. We love it.
• 2:18
  That's. Why?
• 2:19
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, you know, you could
• 2:22
  be an academic and enjoy yourself, you know.
• 2:27
  As Indiana Jones has has shown us.
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  Some people will find. Out by Robert Holmes by now it
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  says by Robert Holmes. Aye.
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  So 2 just said by Robert Holmes just then.
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  What on BBC iPlayer? Robert by Robert Ah, well, you
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  tell you, keep on watching the demons.
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  I'm going to carry on with this episode of Terror of the
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  Autumns. I'm actually.
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  Oh no, that's fantastic. Let's rewind now.
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  Come on, we'll go back. Yeah.
• 2:55
  Yeah, yeah. I thought I was working with a
• 2:58
  professional. Good grief.
• 3:01
  Sorry, folks, you're going to have to wait now and go back.
• 3:03
  Everyone rewinds. It was quite good.
• 3:07
  Well, I was, I was, I was gripped, OK?
• 3:09
  Right. So excited going in there as
• 3:11
  well. I'm not cutting a word of this,
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  all right? Should you?
• 3:16
  I think, I think, I think it's only, it's only fair that.
• 3:20
  You know that, you know anyone can make a mistake.
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  I was very confused by Robert Holmes, really.
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  Anyway. How that would have turned out,
• 3:30
  actually. The Demons, written by Robert
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  Holmes. Oh, we, we can, we can discuss
• 3:35
  that as we go. We've wasted enough time of our
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  dear listener. I am sorry.
• 3:39
  And I know you've got that very important thing to go to.
• 3:41
  That's. Right.
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  Yes, What me. No, no, whoever's listening to
• 3:46
  this or just, you know what, actually just spend a bit longer
• 3:49
  in the bath than you were going to, you know, on us.
• 3:52
  You're welcome. You're welcome.
• 3:53
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's done a.
• 3:55
  Favour pit line with yourself though, right?
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  Let's press play. Now go play.
• 4:00
  Oh God, you're not even counting us in OK.
• 4:02
  No, no, we're in. We're.
• 4:03
  In we're in OK, we're going down the great diamond logo of John
• 4:08
  Presley. 'S face.
• 4:08
  It is very good. You know, there's a certain
• 4:11
  point, you know, where you can pause it and when it's green and
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  see Darth Vader's helmet. Didn't.
• 4:18
  Didn't know that, did you? The one on his head, right?
• 4:22
  Yes. No.
• 4:25
  What's happened to you? What has happened to me?
• 4:28
  Oh dear. Right, dear.
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  I lied by Guy Leopold. Good.
• 4:31
  We're back. We're back in Auburn.
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  How did? It actually open?
• 4:35
  Oh, it opens on ancient Chaos, the master.
• 4:38
  Yeah, the the actual star of the story, you know?
• 4:42
  That whip pan when he goes look and then it comes round on Bok,
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  that's such a great shot, isn't it, with the head turning.
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  And here we are. We've got Yates and Benton, you
• 4:54
  know, 13 nil. Unlucky for some, they're about
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  to. They're about to turn over and
• 5:00
  catch the beginning of tonight's episode of Doctor Who on
• 5:03
  television. I don't know how good the
• 5:06
  subtitle is on BBC iPlayer, I think the rugby players were but
• 5:09
  mine said 113 to nil. Oh, right.
• 5:12
  OK. Yeah, pretty right.
• 5:14
  Temporary faults? Oh dear.
• 5:17
  And we'll never know. Magical, yeah.
• 5:20
  Get onto the BBC, Benton, he said.
• 5:25
  That's great. It's really clever.
• 5:28
  Oh no, look at John Perry. He's absolutely rectus, isn't
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  he? Yeah, yeah.
• 5:33
  Best. Best thing for him, really.
• 5:37
  Look at the lion on Roger Delgado, doesn't it?
• 5:40
  And his costume, the candles, everything.
• 5:45
  So hang on, is us all there now? Is he actually talking to us
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  all? I I don't think Azar has
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  appeared. Yeah, I do.
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  What do? My will shall be.
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  The whole of the law is from Flamer, which is Alistair
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  Crowley's DIY cult religion. So he's, he's, he's, he's
• 6:03
  quoting Aleister Crowley directly at that point.
• 6:06
  You know Matthew Corbett's in this from Sooty and Sweep.
• 6:09
  Yes, yes. His character in the book gets a
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  whole subplot where you keep seeing the ceremonies from his
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  point of view, which then leads up to the point where he says,
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  no, I'm not going to murder Joe Grant.
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  It's a really interesting character in the book.
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  That's why the targets are so great.
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  And I, I can't remember, I might have read The Demons before I
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  saw the TV show. I think so.
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  I think I saw, I think I saw The Demons on BBC Two, on BBC Two,
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  repeat. Only complaint about the book is
• 6:41
  Barry Letts. His abuse of ellipses, all
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  right? He just loves them.
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  He just loves them to create suspense.
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  Fuck me, look at John Pearl, he looks like an icicle.
• 6:53
  You know that terrible old lolly you find at the back of the
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  phrase? He's been asking for it though,
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  or last episode he was asking for something like this to
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  happen to him. Really, is that what you think
• 7:02
  arrogant people should have just.
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  Completely he throws in the solid or melted by.
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  Poor old Joe Grant. She's in a terrible state.
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  Look, Yeah. Yeah, he's got Benton being
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  quite threatening on the phone here, which is fine, but you
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  know, little, little bit of fascist Benton a little bit.
• 7:23
  Yeah, actually I like this. Like they're all on the phone
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  and it's sort of overlapping conversation.
• 7:28
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Brigadier went on somewhere
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  after dinner. No one knows quite where.
• 7:35
  We catch up with him in bed. What?
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  We don't know who had him that telephone, do we?
• 7:39
  No, in bed, I'm pretty sure during the day.
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  So you know. We know where he is.
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  He's in Brighton with Doris. Right.
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  That's where he is. I think he's having an affair on
• 7:52
  Fiona. You know that's true.
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  Well, yeah, back in the pub. Mr. Wynne Stanley, the the the
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  mayor of the town. Yeah, the mayor.
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  Is that right? He's the, he's the Squire.
• 8:02
  He's the Squire. He's.
• 8:03
  The Squire? Sorry, he's he.
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  Yeah. He gets huge coverage in the
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  book. He does.
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  He does. And in the book his name is
• 8:13
  Morrissey Veer de Vere when Stanley, which is just
• 8:16
  phenomenal, you know. But yes, yeah, all the all the
• 8:20
  villagers get way more. This is Doctor Reeves.
• 8:23
  He's barely in it after this I don't think.
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  All the stuff around, because it's that wonderful scene.
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  I think it's in Part 3 where the masters spilling out all the
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  secrets of the villagers and saying you'll do what I want or
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  or I'll tell everybody that or what you're up to.
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  All of that stuff is is enhancing the book brilliantly.
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  I just feel like people that live lives.
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  All that stuff is very in keeping with the kind of the,
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  the witchcraft survival in Rural England and the kind of the, you
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  know, the, the, the, the, the, the blackmail and all that stuff
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  really works. That's very in keeping with the
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  kind of this vein of folk horror that doctors tapped into here.
• 9:07
  I do think Bert's a pretty good character, though.
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  I know we don't really figure out sort of why.
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  I think. I feel like the Master's just
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  seduced him with power, but he does get a lot to do.
• 9:17
  Oh, he does. He does.
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  I just kind of think other guest characters are better drawn,
• 9:23
  that's all. I come.
• 9:24
  I'd like a bit more, oh, here we have the BBC crew leave.
• 9:28
  There's such a great memorable part of this story.
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  I think we missed them and I should they have stayed.
• 9:33
  Yes, and they should do documentary footage throughout
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  the entire thing. I think, I think they should
• 9:39
  have been either trapped just within the extent of the the
• 9:43
  heat barrier or something or help the Brigadier or something
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  or just provided cub coverage to give that kind of that kind of
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  national global sense of all eyes on devil's end.
• 9:57
  But Barry or Robert, whoever's decision it was to have them in
• 10:00
  Part 1, Chef's Kiss, it was a great idea.
• 10:05
  God damn genius, and it's one of the things that makes this story
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  for me. Oh, the point will be on the
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  beat. Now he's just got to have his
• 10:12
  corn beat sandwich. And then two glowing red eye.
• 10:16
  Now is that is that Azal? No, that's Bach, isn't.
• 10:21
  It yeah, it's a little. Bit do you know the fact that it
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  zooms in and it's totally indistinct and it all, it sort
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  of gets a bit fuzzy? I think that's scarier for kids
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  that it's indistinct, that they can't see what it is.
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  Yeah. Well, actually I would say again
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  though, the master looks incredible in a dog collar.
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  Kind of sexy Rob as well, you know.
• 10:42
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:44
  That sounds about. Me.
• 10:44
  But yeah, seducing a priest, so it's up there.
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  Well, exactly, exactly. He looks.
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  He looks, Yeah, and in a way that the Bobby on the beat does
• 10:56
  not, if you know what I'm. Saying, oh this is great.
• 10:59
  Here we go, here we go. That's something.
• 11:02
  He he's gross, doesn't he? And he walks across the lands.
• 11:05
  That's the thing, I think that they were Azar's eyes in the in
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  the in the Barrow. And now Azar is growing.
• 11:13
  And oh, look at this. Pull back on the master.
• 11:15
  He knows what's going on. Oh.
• 11:16
  Yeah, he he see the Master, is he the Master's fun in this
• 11:20
  story in a way the Doctor isn't. Isn't.
• 11:23
  Yeah, yeah. That's why he's the hero, right?
• 11:25
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 11:26
  Yeah, the Doctor's the villain. He knows it.
• 11:28
  He knows it. Naturalizing everybody.
• 11:30
  Look at this helicopter. Coming in, look at Yeah, it's
• 11:32
  his red jacket. Doesn't look uncomfortable.
• 11:35
  That doesn't that won't breathe, will it?
• 11:37
  No, he's got the gloves. He's just, oh, I mean, OK, these
• 11:40
  enormous foot marks. This is this is a call called
• 11:45
  reference to the Devil's Footprints mystery of 1855 that.
• 11:49
  Was model work? Yeah, yeah.
• 11:51
  Yeah, I think so. It looks incredible how they did
• 11:53
  it. It's well lit.
• 11:55
  Yeah, but in in Devon, 1855, huge Bank of the snow, Devil's
• 11:59
  footprints go for miles and miles.
• 12:01
  This is a reference to that because that was the that was
• 12:04
  known as the Great Devon Mystery.
• 12:05
  I actually wrote a big finish the doctor story called the
• 12:08
  Devil's Hoof prints about it. But this is absolutely what
• 12:12
  this. Please everybody go and check
• 12:15
  that out. It is heaven.
• 12:17
  But we had so much fun with it a couple of months ago.
• 12:22
  Oh. Bless you.
• 12:24
  Well, yeah, it's one of my favourites.
• 12:27
  People always like the grim dark stuff.
• 12:29
  I like all the fun funny stuff anyway.
• 12:32
  Your parent way, or rather trelore is just.
• 12:36
  Oh here we have the closest of pub sign in the foreground is
• 12:40
  the helicopter lands in the background.
• 12:42
  I mean, it hasn't changed, has it at?
• 12:44
  All No, I actually, I mean, I made a friend called Sarah who
• 12:47
  she's a Doctor Who fan from. Oh, she's from up north and we
• 12:51
  met in Auburn because we were both taking a photograph of the
• 12:57
  bin outside the blue boar at the same time.
• 12:59
  So it's like 2-2 fellow pilgrims meeting each other, you know,
• 13:03
  like you know, you know my. God, Rodman series have have
• 13:06
  started over less, you know. Oh.
• 13:08
  No, no, she's, she's, no, we're just, we're just powers.
• 13:11
  And we, we, we, we, we chat occasionally, but we just, you
• 13:14
  know, we we're two. We're two Doctor Who fans who
• 13:17
  found each other taking a photograph of the same bin at
• 13:20
  the same time. Yeah.
• 13:22
  And that is the power of this story, and a really the power of
• 13:24
  Audborn as a local. The only thing that confused me
• 13:27
  when I was there was it wasn't a shot on film, you know, It was
• 13:31
  all very sharp when I was there. I expected it to have that sort
• 13:36
  of stylish Sheen to it, but apart it just looks exactly.
• 13:40
  The same I, I, we actually argue that and we mentioned Delgado,
• 13:44
  but I do think the true star of this story is all born.
• 13:48
  All born, Yeah, Well, and Demarus Hayman, of course.
• 13:53
  Oh, here we have we've it's just the daytime.
• 13:55
  It's it's the middle of the day and the Brig is in bed.
• 13:58
  Well, he's had a bit heavy know it.
• 14:00
  I know, but how heavy? That's what.
• 14:01
  That's what I want to know anyway.
• 14:03
  We'll never find out. I was going to make a remark
• 14:06
  about stains on that cushion, but I think Lucy McCall might
• 14:08
  faint, so I don't want to say it.
• 14:10
  Oh, I just did. Whoops.
• 14:13
  I like how he's got a red telephone even when he's I.
• 14:16
  Helicopter where to? Yeah, I do love the Brig.
• 14:19
  He's got sort of like his important phone even in the
• 14:22
  hotel there. Yeah, Joe, phone telephones by
• 14:27
  your bed. My phone lives on silent.
• 14:29
  I couldn't bear it. Having all these familiar
• 14:32
  characters walking around a location that you can visit and
• 14:35
  is the same now and is such a beautiful occasion.
• 14:40
  Benton goes inside the church and boom, we're into onto the
• 14:43
  set. But the transition and the the
• 14:46
  backdrop the door is flawless. Well, and even in the sets with
• 14:50
  the perspective things they put up in the windows are pretty
• 14:54
  good in this as well. They are really good.
• 14:56
  They're really good that. Door was locked when we went
• 14:59
  there. We tried to go in that door to
• 15:01
  rescue missile form, but alas, you couldn't get in.
• 15:05
  Service small church isn't. It quite a small church.
• 15:08
  Yeah, it is. But it's here's one of the great
• 15:14
  pairings of Doctor Who, Miss Hawthorne.
• 15:16
  Absolutely, Absolutely. Yeah.
• 15:18
  I, I love it when you you, when you team up two characters who
• 15:22
  you can't imagine working together and, and they become
• 15:25
  instant, instant rapport, instant double act.
• 15:28
  They they come from two different worlds and they're
• 15:31
  thrown together into this. I just love how he gets so
• 15:35
  frustrated with her, doesn't he? And she just goes.
• 15:37
  You must learn the art of patience, Sergeant.
• 15:40
  You know, haven't had some chamomile tea.
• 15:44
  Just glorious. Yes, and OK, Miss Hawthorne
• 15:48
  calls Bock a gargoyle. This isn't it.
• 15:52
  This. It's almost set.
• 15:54
  It's all set. But yeah, she calls Bock a
• 15:55
  gargoyle when I think you'll find technically Bock is a
• 16:00
  grotesque because a gargoyle has to work as a drain.
• 16:04
  What's great is that you've got mannequins of people with miles
• 16:07
  here. It looks like they're leering
• 16:09
  out of the out of the shadows. That's a great.
• 16:12
  Thing that's actually one really clever thing, but this is it is
• 16:14
  a tourist play. It's open.
• 16:18
  It's open to visitors in story, isn't it?
• 16:20
  It's a place you can go to. You just watch this, please.
• 16:24
  All right, This is absolutely the the Benton and Hawthorn TV
• 16:29
  show where they investigate supernatural mysteries.
• 16:31
  Here it is on the screen. It was absolutely a possibility
• 16:35
  in the 70s. She says here, well the the last
• 16:39
  witchcraft act repealed. She mentioned 1951.
• 16:44
  That's actually reference to the Fraudulent Mediums Act.
• 16:49
  Fraudulent mediums actually say yeah.
• 16:52
  I do say yeah, oh, here we have a nice bit of fighting.
• 16:55
  And apparently John Levine loved a good scuffle.
• 16:59
  So Barry, let's put him. On him, he he does some very
• 17:02
  good scuffling in this. He's kind of a bit like, oh, in
• 17:05
  the professions. Is it Bodie or Doyle?
• 17:08
  Anyway, one of them? He could have been.
• 17:10
  He he could have been like the third professional in the
• 17:13
  professionals could Benton. Bodie, Doyle and Benton.
• 17:16
  Yeah. I just love those those sort of
• 17:19
  mannequins in the background there.
• 17:20
  It just is. Such AI.
• 17:21
  Think Doctor Who does church interiors and Crips and caverns
• 17:25
  so well. What really does?
• 17:27
  And this and again, villagers, sinister villagers brandishing
• 17:33
  shotguns is a very important part of this particular genre.
• 17:38
  Well, that's one thing I noticed about all the things that we
• 17:40
  watched, right? It was all sort of stories about
• 17:43
  people trapped within a locale that's that's sort of like the
• 17:46
  central menace is you just can't get away.
• 17:50
  Yeah, exactly, exactly. And also, the doctor being
• 17:53
  asleep is a great way of giving more time to the other regulars.
• 17:56
  And this is 10 here we have now this is the heat expansion as is
• 18:04
  this is it the heat expansion or the I can't remember.
• 18:08
  What's that? The fella literally
• 18:10
  spontaneously can bust watch this.
• 18:13
  Poof, he's gone. He he fires a couple of times as
• 18:16
  then yeah, they burning Bush. I'm not saying he was a poof.
• 18:19
  I'm just saying he vanished, all right?
• 18:21
  Yeah. Well, you know, it's dramatic a
• 18:23
  burning Bush, isn't it? Is that symbolic, Rob?
• 18:26
  It could be a biblical reference.
• 18:27
  I think it's just a Bush that's burning, but you know.
• 18:30
  I love the fact that every time I say, oh, look at this, the
• 18:33
  music here as the camera goes into the floor to suggest that
• 18:36
  he's shrinking because when does CSO, you know, when he grows
• 18:40
  later on at the end of four. I mean it's as good as they they
• 18:43
  could do at the time, but I much prefer the perspective shots
• 18:47
  which I suggest. Rather than exactly.
• 18:50
  So Eureka. Yeah.
• 18:51
  When the doctor snaps awake and says Eureka, it's like, well,
• 18:55
  what, what theory exactly has been confirmed here?
• 18:58
  It's, you know, we're not letting to what the doctor's
• 19:00
  thinking. And whenever he does speak, he's
• 19:02
  just horrible to people. It's actually not.
• 19:06
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Blow up a van.
• 19:10
  That's a pretty darn good explosion.
• 19:12
  That is great. Well, I mean, I've recently been
• 19:14
  quite rude about the explosions in the spice of a koi era
• 19:17
  because they're sort of just a load of sparks back then.
• 19:20
  They used a ton of fucking petrol in their explosions,
• 19:22
  didn't they? Yeah, you say that, but
• 19:25
  Remembrance of the Daleks does, you know?
• 19:28
  That's true, but they're quite quick though, aren't they?
• 19:30
  You know, boom and the flames gone.
• 19:32
  Did you see that great gouts of flame coming out of that?
• 19:35
  Yeah. No, I did.
• 19:36
  I did. You know, oh, now that he did
• 19:39
  just cut Joe's face there. Yeah, yeah.
• 19:43
  Being horribly rude to people and then touching them is like,
• 19:46
  you know, Yeah, that's not yeah. Knock it till you tried it, all
• 19:49
  right, OK. Yeah, OK, There is now, there is
• 19:54
  now an invisible barrier around the village, like in the Village
• 19:57
  of the Damned. And it was at this point we've
• 20:02
  had 15 minutes without the doctor.
• 20:06
  And you really can't feel it right?
• 20:09
  The regulars. Yeah, they're holding it.
• 20:10
  They're holding the story. Yeah, Yeah.
• 20:13
  Oh my God. And actually, you look at Benton
• 20:15
  here, he really does look beaten up as there's blood on his face
• 20:19
  and bruises. He's quite a heavy young man,
• 20:23
  she says. Paul, Miss Hawthorn.
• 20:28
  So everyone's in place now for the Doctor to do his slideshow
• 20:31
  in Episode 3 all about, you know, horned beasts and halls
• 20:36
  throughout history. Yes, yeah.
• 20:38
  And at this point, the Doctor is on Miss Hawthorne's side about
• 20:42
  what's going on. Oh, what a tale.
• 20:44
  I'll have to tell them now. Wonderful.
• 20:48
  I do have low sort of long-suffering.
• 20:50
  The Master is, though. That's what makes it.
• 20:53
  That's the secret to the Master being so kind of charming.
• 20:56
  The humanizing thing is all his kind of little, little, little
• 21:01
  defeats and frustrations. Those are the things that make
• 21:03
  you love him. Yeah.
• 21:05
  So Miss Awful mentions elementals in the cavern and.
• 21:10
  Satan, Lucifer, the Prince of Darkness, bees or Bum the horny
• 21:13
  beast. And the doctor starts basically
• 21:16
  telling her she's an idiot when actually she.
• 21:18
  Then later on he says no, you are right.
• 21:21
  It's just you know. That's so rude.
• 21:23
  You saw the devil. Well, what did he look like?
• 21:26
  Yeah. All right, you prick, you know?
• 21:29
  But can consider he's his position.
• 21:32
  I would argue is not scientific. Is is it's it's something else.
• 21:40
  It's scientism. Sabbath.
• 21:43
  A Sabbath is sort of a witch's meet.
• 21:47
  It's a Sabbath. Yes, it's it's, it's a meeting
• 21:51
  of witches. Witches Sabbath.
• 21:54
  Valentine. I believe that's Spanish for
• 21:57
  master. I knew it.
• 22:01
  I just want I got to mate. I I do love it when I get to do
• 22:06
  a so and so. Of course I should have known
• 22:09
  that's the word for master. You're like a very smooth master
• 22:13
  robot, actually, do you know? Oh, bless you.
• 22:16
  Look at your eyes, man. My God, you could hypnotize
• 22:18
  anyone. Stop it.
• 22:26
  OK, the milkman is about to save the brigadier's life and
• 22:30
  therefore the world do. You know what confused me as a
• 22:33
  child, right? I missed episode 2 in the
• 22:35
  repeat, right? And then I skipped straight to
• 22:38
  three and I couldn't figure out what had happened.
• 22:41
  So 2 is the one I know the least.
• 22:44
  There is a bit of a continuity thing here because it says one
• 22:47
  mile to Devil's End, but then we're also talk told that the
• 22:51
  the perimeter is 5 miles with the church at the centre so that
• 22:56
  it should say Devil's End 5 miles.
• 22:59
  Satan Hall. Satan Hall.
• 23:02
  Yes, down the road, yeah. Lovely place.
• 23:04
  What does the other one say that we can't say?
• 23:07
  Oh no, it's Satan Hall, Abbotsburn, Covenstone, and
• 23:14
  something else. B Bob's way.
• 23:16
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
• 23:17
  So the devil. Sorry, the devil.
• 23:19
  The doctor and Joe Freudian slip.
• 23:21
  He's acting like the devil in this one.
• 23:23
  They, they the twig that was blocking the road to stop Bessie
• 23:26
  going past. They've now moved aside.
• 23:29
  Can I do fashion watch for a second?
• 23:32
  Yes please, I do. Love Joe's velvet trouser suit.
• 23:35
  In this, I think she looks like all business.
• 23:41
  Katie Manning is great in this story again, because she's just
• 23:45
  every, yeah, with without a doctor to like and root for and
• 23:49
  want to spend time with. You're actually kind of relieved
• 23:51
  to be with the Brig or with Joe Benton and Miss Hawthorn.
• 23:55
  That's you know. Also, there is a staggering
• 23:58
  amount of location work in this story, an unusually high amount,
• 24:02
  and I I know some of this wasn't supposed to be on location.
• 24:05
  And Barry let's when fuck it with.
• 24:08
  Yes, yes, spend. The money.
• 24:10
  And then when this came in the can, there was a report that
• 24:14
  basically said this is the standard of television that we
• 24:18
  should be producing. And I don't think there was.
• 24:21
  It was very often that Doctor Who was held up as something
• 24:24
  that other production should be aspiring to, but this was this
• 24:28
  was sort of highly regarded in the BBCI think at the time.
• 24:34
  And it still is. It's still got the nothing in my
• 24:38
  hand is no nothing in my hand. I bring that's it's a lyric from
• 24:44
  some like Rock of Ages or something like that.
• 24:46
  I don't know what if it's? It's a sort of line just there
• 24:49
  that could trip up a bad actor, but he sort of comes in and goes
• 24:53
  still alive. Are you, Doctor, you know, a
• 24:56
  terrible actor talking to themselves?
• 24:58
  Yeah, I love that about the Master, though.
• 24:59
  He's trying to pretend, you know he hasn't screwed up or
• 25:03
  something. I love this shot here where they
• 25:05
  pull pulls focus through the. I hope those are Hawthorns
• 25:09
  they're filming. Another thing, another thing
• 25:12
  that has has been reconsidered unfavourably is Chris Barry's
• 25:16
  direction over the years. Not specifically of this story,
• 25:18
  but in general. I think he's a great director
• 25:22
  and I think he always gets the assignment.
• 25:24
  We watched Brain and Morbius recently and I think that was
• 25:26
  very well directed as well. Yes, yeah.
• 25:29
  And here the the the, the rather subtle reveal of this, the, the
• 25:33
  dead body. They find the man guarding the
• 25:36
  barrows. Was that a placement?
• 25:38
  Eating a sandwich. Yeah, we've both walked up here,
• 25:41
  haven't we? And yeah.
• 25:43
  Dylan complaining all the way. What what?
• 25:48
  What was the weather like when you.
• 25:49
  He will come at me when he hears this.
• 25:51
  It was quite windy actually. It was this sort of a day.
• 25:54
  His Bok. I wish I could get stockings
• 25:58
  like that. Do you think there should have
• 26:00
  been more than one bok or it's just one gargoyle as described?
• 26:06
  Enough? Would would you think, like
• 26:09
  several of them? Like, you know, several Yeti,
• 26:11
  several mummies. And no, I think poor Stanley
• 26:14
  would be a bit pissed actually if there was other box about the
• 26:17
  place. Now I I know people that mock
• 26:20
  Bog right, but I think the success of a Doctor Who monster
• 26:25
  is that did it stay in the memory?
• 26:27
  And boy did it. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:31
  It, it, it is a church grotesque come to life.
• 26:34
  It looks how it should pretty much as it should look.
• 26:37
  And it's. Can the kids do it in the
• 26:38
  playground? Absolutely they can.
• 26:40
  Yes, yeah. And so the inside of the Barrow
• 26:43
  is the same shape as the spaceship, which is currently
• 26:45
  tiny. Isn't that a great concept
• 26:48
  though? I think that's a.
• 26:49
  Great concept. It's this stuff is all feels
• 26:51
  very quite a mass in the pit and that's what's so great about it.
• 26:57
  But that I think you know, it's the the the hands of Nigel Neil
• 27:01
  are still here. But but then again, it is it is
• 27:04
  put to be here at who they. Should we explained things to
• 27:08
  Joe Grant there, the doctor, exactly the same way that sort
• 27:11
  of Michael Mills explained things to me on the book club.
• 27:13
  You know, look at the size of that.
• 27:17
  Yeah, right. What does it look like that.
• 27:19
  OK, Yeah. Come on.
• 27:21
  Be serious. Oh, for God's sakes, Joe.
• 27:23
  You know, it's very, it's a similar sort of relationship.
• 27:26
  Oh God, it ended. Yeah, yeah, with yeah, Bach in
• 27:31
  the Barrow menacing the Doctor and Joe.
• 27:34
  Pretty good cliffhanger. Yeah, Rob, I would swear that
• 27:39
  was 80% on location that episode.
• 27:43
  Yeah. And also it feels like it not.
• 27:46
  I think it's partly that the marriage of exterior and
• 27:49
  interior is so strong and well. There's a lot of sort of looking
• 27:54
  out of windows, you know, in four when Benton is doing all
• 27:57
  the shooting out of the windows and things like that, There's a
• 27:59
  lot of that that is really well done.
• 28:01
  There's a lot of looking out the windows and seeing the view
• 28:04
  through the doors as they open and shut, which really creates a
• 28:08
  relationship between the sets and the location shooting that
• 28:12
  sometimes you don't get. It's got a wonderful indoors
• 28:16
  outdoors feel the approach to where it's directed in this.
• 28:20
  One, I'm not going to make mean comments about what you think
• 28:23
  about direction. All right?
• 28:23
  We've covered that on previous episodes, but I am going to say
• 28:27
  that Chris Barry says that he been pigeonholed into directing
• 28:33
  Doctor Who. So he deliberately came away
• 28:35
  from it after I think it's Power of the Daleks and didn't do any
• 28:40
  more after that. And I don't think he wanted to
• 28:43
  do more. But then he thought his career
• 28:45
  would take off in other directions and it didn't.
• 28:47
  And then he was suddenly offered a colour Doctor Who, mostly on
• 28:52
  location where he thought, you know what, I could actually make
• 28:55
  an impact with this. And he did.