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Sugar Baby · Everyone Has An Ex

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a Mother of me A podcast. MoMA
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on age differences. Do they really
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: mean anything? You're only as old as the person you feel.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Age is but a number, etcetera, etcetera. It doesn't matter
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: when you're in love, right.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I didn't know how I would explain to people that
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: I had met him. I suppose I didn't give my
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: friends enough credit, and I worried that they would be
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: judgmental of his appearance and sort of ask me, what
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: are you doing why? You know, you're young, and you're
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: sort of in this peak of your life and you've
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: settled for a bit of a dorky old man.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: That's Carlie. She'll be the first person to tell you
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: age doesn't mean a damned thing when you find your one.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: But whether age is the problem or not, some love
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: stories just don't the way we plan.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: So we just held each.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Other and I just told him how much I loved
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: him and how grateful I was that he had saved
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: my life.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I'm Georgia Love and this is everyone has an ex
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Come with me as we dive into a collection of
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: unconventional stories about relationships past through the eyes and the
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: hearts of the very people who lived them. Meet Carly.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Her story starts a little differently than others we've told you,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: because at age thirty, Carly wasn't looking for someone at all.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: She was out looking for fun, autonomy, and money.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: So I suppose I ended up as a sugar baby
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: at age thirty quite unexpectedly. I suppose I had a
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: few incidents where I felt a bit like out of
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: control of my body. I'd lost a pregnancy and experienced
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: some other traumatic events where I felt like my body
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: wasn't my own. And I got into this mindset of
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: like I deserve to be paid for my body existing essentially,
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: And I discovered like the sugar baby sugar daddy world,
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: and I was like, this is great. Men can't treat
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: me like shit anymore because I'm in control. I'm getting
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: paid for my time and their experience. So it felt
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: really powerful. After probably a really rough eighteen months of
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: not having much body autonomy for quite some time, I
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: found out about it through a friend who said that
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: she had dabbled in the sugar baby industry. I think
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I had always heard about it sort of on and
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: off terms of being thrown out. But I didn't know
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: how accessible it was to become a sugar baby, so
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I just found a website online and signed up. The
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: basis of it is men paying you for your time
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: with them, so the dates I would go on would
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: look fastly different. So I had one client in particular,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: like I'd just accompany him to his business dinners and
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: he'd buy me new clothes to wear or get my
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: makeup done, and I would spend the night at his
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: dinners with him, or like fundraising events. There were men
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: who just didn't want to be alone. I had one
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: client who had broken up with his girlfriend and just
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: paid me. He wanted to call me his ex girlfriend's
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: name and just hug me and paid me for that time.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: So it was really different what every man is looking
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: for in the sugar baby sugar daddy world. I loved
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: how I felt like I got to have like this
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: secret life, like this secret world where I got to
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: meet all of these people and have lots of new experiences,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: and I was exposed to worlds that I'd never normally
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: be exposed to, Like the line of work I do
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: doesn't come with fancy dinners or corporate events, and so
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: being exposed to those things was really fun for me.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: The things that were the highs were like I suppose,
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: like unexpected generosity, like people who would just like shower
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: you with gifts that was sort of unexpected, or those
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: kinds of events. And the lows were people who would
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: just be really degrading, like I've paid for this time
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: with you, so we'll do whatever I want to do,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: and didn't take any time to get to know me.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: That was more just I won't see that person again.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I never thought I would do it long term, but
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: there were some really great clients too, like one named James.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: I'd been doing it for roughly six months, and I
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: had been with a few who I had seen multiple times.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Some were just one off and it really varied. But
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: really immediately upon meeting James, I knew that was going
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: to be really different. He was just lovely. From the
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: first time we met. He was very awkward. He was
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: forty eight. He is very tall, quite dorky looking like
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: definitely not my type by any stretch of the imagination.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Really just looked like a middle age man. Yeah, definitely.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: His height took me by surprise, like I came up
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to his shoulders. We just went out for lunch, and
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I remember him saying like, oh, you're never gonna want
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: to see me again after today, But I at that
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: point it was like, well, you paid me for my time,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and why wouldn't I I got lunch and five hundred dollars,
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Like this is great, So I was like, no, of
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: course I'd happily see you again. He was very recently widowed.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: He had lost his wife of twenty three years only
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: two months prior, so he was seeking company. For the
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: most part, on the first meeting, we didn't speak much
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: about his wife. But I remember the second meeting, We're
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: in a hotel room and was sort of just like
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: cuddling on the bed and he was telling me about her,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: and I rolled away to not be facing him because
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: I was crying. I was just devastated for him, and
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking, this is horrendous, how can someone experience
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: such a loss in their life, and feeling so much
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: sadness for him as he spoke about her. And I
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: think that me having such a big reaction definitely led
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: to him wanting to continue the relationship because he knew
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: that I was more than just sort of surface deep,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: like I really cared.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: It surprised Carly how much hearing about James's wife affected her,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: but she couldn't help feeling the injustice in it that
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: this lovely, kind man didn't deserve to lose such a
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: great love, and if he wanted her to, she was
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: very happy to be there to help him feel a
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: bit of comfort during such a sad time.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: I'm like an EmPATH through and through, so I feel
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: everyone's emotions that I'm around, So that's not strange for
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: me to feel what other people are feeling or feed
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: off other people's emotions. But I knew. I knew in
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: that moment how vulnerable he was and how much he
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: needed to be protected, and I just wanted I just
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: wanted to protect him straight away. He was just kind
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: and gentle and really genuine, and he wanted to get
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: to know me and what I wanted, and he was
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: interested in my career aspirations, and we had spoken about
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: like what UNI degree he had done thirty years prior
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: and things like that, So it wasn't just a man
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: sexualizing me because he thought that's what he had paid
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: for and that's what he was entitled to. It was
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: just a man who wanted to create a connection. We're
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: seeing each other weekly to begin with, the first few
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: months was probably weekly. I distinctly remember maybe like four
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: or five dates in and we would text a lot,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: and I knew he was having a rough day and
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: he was quite upset about his late wife, and I
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: I text him one night saying can I give you
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: a call? And he texts back saying like, oh my god,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: are you breaking up with me? And I said no, like,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I just I know you've had a really rough day
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: and I just want to talk. And from that point on,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I think we would spend three hours a day talking
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: on the phone every day. We would text all the
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: time when we were apart, and it was just lovely.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: So when we had all this time together on the phone,
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: it was really different for me. So I had been
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: in a really long term relationship, which was a marriage
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: that had taken a really rocky turn when we had
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: lost our baby and we were grieving separately, I suppose,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: and myself and my husband had always lived like a
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: very working class life, like we'd both worked full time
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: for as long as we'd been together, and all of
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: a sudden, I was seeing this retired man who me
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: calling him was his world. So he had unlimited time
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: for me, and I wasn't used to that because adult
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: relationships are so constrained by work pressure and life and
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: all of these other things that he didn't have. So
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: when his kids were at school during the day, he
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: was just constantly available to me, and that was something
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I had never experienced before, just that availability. And any
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: time I wanted to talk to someone or needed to
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: talk to someone, I knew I could pick up the
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: phone and he'd be there anytime of the day. He
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: would just buy me so much jewelry, gorgeous jewelry, and
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: like we'd set prices for what he was going to
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: gift me in exchange for my time, and he'd always
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: give me like double what I had said I was expecting,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: or throw in like vouchers or like a beautiful bracelet
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: one time. So he would just always go sort of
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: above and beyond. It made me feel really valued, yeah,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: just valued. Maybe By the fifth time I saw him,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: I remember thinking to myself, like, this is as good
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: as it gets in this world. So you're not like
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to try anymore, I'm not going to
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: go on any more dates, because like, I've reached the
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: peak of what happens in the sugar baby world. In
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: my thought processes, I thought, I've reached a peak here,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: like this is as good as it gets. I have
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: been so showered with like generosity and love and gifts
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: and affection I can't go back to like the tire
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: kickers of the community. Like so, I made a decision
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: pretty early on that he was going to be my
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: last ever client.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: It didn't take long for both of them to realize
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: this was more than just a client worker relationship. Yes
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: he was paying her, but a genuine connection group for him.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Quite early on, he was telling me that he loved me,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: probably within four weeks of meeting. And then he'd get
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: confused and he'd say, I've got all of these feelings
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: of love for my late wife and they've got nowhere
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: to go anymore so and probably just thinking they belong
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: to you when they don't. But he'd say he loved me,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: and I think we'd been seeing each other for like
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: six weeks when he asked how I wanted to be
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: proposed to, and then he sent me a message like sorry,
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't mean to accidentally propose, like I don't even
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: think I want to get married again. But he was
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: just he was overwhelmed in his own feelings as well,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: so he would tell me he loved me, and I
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: think after about two months I told him that I
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: loved him too. We started having discussions about what the
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: future would look like because it was really clear that
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: above all else, we had this really great, genuine friendship
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: that we both wanted to protect it all costs. So
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: he had a conversation with me one day where he
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: was like, look, I really want to keep seeing you,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: but this isn't financially viable and it's not smart, and
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: I've got kids to think of, and like, I can't
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: keep paying you the way I have been, And he
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: was extraordinarily generous for my time. And that's where we
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: started having conversations about what the future would look like
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: if we moved away from sort of like a client
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: based relationship where money wasn't being exchanged for spending time together.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: So they did it really just it happened. There was
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: a few big hurdles that we needed to face, Like
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: up until then all of our meetings had taken place
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: in hotels, and he had I mean, I say kids
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: one of them was an adult, one was an adolescent.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Two kids he needed to protect in that space as well,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: And he was really mindful of not mixing me with
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: his family because his wife had only been deceased for
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: a few months at that point and the kids had
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: lost their mum. So he was really respectful of not
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: wanting me in that space just yet. So we had
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: a few sort of teething issues about how we were
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: going to work this hour. We also lived an hour
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: and a half away from each so it wasn't simple
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: geographically to work out how we're going to do this either.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Not meeting his family in the early stages felt really appropriate.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: It's very different to his experience. But I was a
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: child of divorce, so I do understand the pressures that
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: adults face of their children meeting new partners. And that's
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: definitely not to compare a divorce to someone passing away,
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: but I did understand, like being a child of divorce,
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: that parents have a lot of pressure to not introduce
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: new partners to their kids really quickly. And I mean,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: on a side note, I'm also terrified of teenage girls.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I think they're just the scariest breed of human possible,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: so not meeting his daughter that sat quite well with
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: me for a while. I just thought, oh my god,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: she's going to tear shreds off me. Like yeah, I
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: was okay with not meeting for a while. I think
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I ended up up going to his house for the
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: first time. So we'd met in the May, and I
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: think I went to his house for the first time
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: in the July. So I remember going to his house
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: for the first time. No one else was home at
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: the time, so there was one day a week where
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: one of his children was at work and one of
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: his children was at school, so we sort of had
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: a few hours where I could go over and spend
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: some time there. And that for me was a really
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: emotional experience because it was walking into a family home
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: but knowing that the family had been broken. It felt
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: really sad. It felt like I could feel the love
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: for this wife and mother who they had lost. And
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: the house was as warm and homely as you like.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: You could tell there was like that woman's touch in
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: the house and that she had set it up beautifully,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: and there was lots of memories of her, lots of
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: photos of her around the house and even on the
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: kitchen table for for months. In this lasted months after
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: the first meeting, was still like the pamphlets left over
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: from her funeral, and there was sort of arrangements from
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the funeral home that obviously he was unable to deal
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: with at the time, so he just left them on
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: the kitchen table and I would see them all the
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: time and just yeah, not know what to do with that.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: It made me feel guilty, probably because there was so
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: much that he was showing me of his world, and
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: I felt like, because of the way we met, we
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: were both going to have these ideas of each other
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: and who each other were that we couldn't take back, but.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: They couldn't deny what they had. And feeling this in
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: James's home and him choosing to share it all with
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: her only made Carly four for him more.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Maybe six months in things had settled and that we're
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: in a bit of a routine. There wasn't We'd got
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: to know each other well enough, I think by that stage,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: and things were just feeling really settled. I just knew
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: that every time I saw him, I felt so safe
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: and so contained. He provided this safety. My life has
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: always felt chaotic, like I just feel internal chaos all
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: the time. That's just sort of who I am as
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: a person. But being around him, he just calmed me.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: He contained me in a way i'd never been I'd
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: never felt that safe before. I suppose I had like
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: a pretty deep wound of feeling unloved by men. My
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: father had taken his own life, and I had this
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: gaping hole of feeling unloved, like feeling like people love
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: me out of necessity. But I think having this relationship
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: with an older man and was very healing for a
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: lot of those wounds, Like I, you know, like the
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: sugar baby with classic daddy issues was really coming out.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: It was like, Okay, I felt really abandoned by a parent,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: and now I was desperate for this older man to
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: love me and to make that feel good. And he did.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: He made that all feel those holes were just getting
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: filled up by him.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: There was no doubt there was a lot of love there.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: But when two people from such different lives meet in
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: such a way, it wasn't all rosy.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: The first six months of our relationship was marked by
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: pretty extreme feelings of jealousy from both parties. So I
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: don't think he believed or accepted that I loved him
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: He struggled with that, and he would struggle with who
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: was texting me or you know. We got into this
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: huge fight once about me saying I was going to
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: the gym with this ill friend of mine, and he
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: hung up the phone heid you know, text me it's over,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: like I can't deal with this, and I suppose I
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: lived with I don't know what the feeling of jealousy
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: is called, when you're jealous over someone who you can't
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: compete with, but I definitely felt like I was often
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: being compared to his late wife, and I would say, like,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: you have to choose me for me because I can't
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: be her, and all the things that make me me
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I can't take back. So my marriage had always been
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: a really open marriage. My husband and I had always
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: dated other people, and my life had been really sort
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: of like fun and free. And he was like, well,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I don't understand that, because if you were in love
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: with your husband the way I was with my wife,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: like I never thought about anyone else. So he didn't
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: understand that, and he couldn't understand that I was making
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: him a promise to say that was an arrangement in
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: my marriage between two out of all who agreed to that,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: and now we're two adults who agree to something different.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: So he would always sort of say, you can't just
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: have one person, you always need more, And it was
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: hard for him to believe that he was the center
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: of my world. By that stage, I felt like I
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: couldn't escape my past, and I felt like I was
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: having to hold shame for how we met. But we
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: met because we were both mutually on the same website, right,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: So like it was bizarre that somehow I was the
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: bad guy for being on that site, but he was
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: like the innocent bystander and just sort of refuted his
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: responsibility in being on that website as well. I didn't
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: share much of my life with him for probably eight
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: or so months before he met friends of mine. I
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: think there was an element of probably not knowing how
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to explain to people the relationship. I was scared of
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: judgment because just based on looks, there was quite apparent
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: differences in our life. He was seventeen years older than
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: I was, so it was apparent to look at us
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: that were in different stages of our life. I didn't
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: know how I would explain to people that I had
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: met him. I suppose I didn't give my friends enough credit,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: and I worried that they would be judgmental of his
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: appearance and sort of ask me, what are you doing,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Like why you know, you're young, and you're sort of
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: in this peak of your life and you've settled for
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: a bit of a dorky old man, and just I
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: suppose the way I had always met different people, it
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: was different to that. He self admit that he didn't
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: have many friends, Like his relationship with his wife, they
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: just lived in this love bubble where he just said
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: he didn't really have friends, she didn't, and they just
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: all they needed was each other. And I had a
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: huge friendship network. And he had also faced really significant
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: health problems his whole life, and so his twenties and
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: thirties looked really different to what mine did. His was
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: faced with sort of like constant hospitalizations, whereas I was
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: sort of really healthy and young and free and got
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: to go out with friends and do whatever I wanted.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: So he wasn't exposed to the same world I was. Like.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I remember one day, out of the blue, he just
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: sent me a text message saying, is sex better on cocaine?
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: She just had never experienced these things like he didn't
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: drink alcohol at all, and he had never experimented with drugs,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: and he just had this really sheltered life in some elements,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: like of course his massive health stuff. He wasn't sheltered
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: from that, but he had never experienced his twenties and
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: thirties in the way I was. I think that he
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: would look at my life and sometimes he'd be like,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: I can't believe you do these things. Like one time
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: we met up. It was one of my friend's birthdays,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: and I was really reluctant to invite him, but I
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: also really wanted him to meet my friends. But unfortunately,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: by the time he got there and I had way
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: too much to drink and ended up vomiting. And that
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: was like a first time for him of like experiencing
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: like going to a pub and like, oh, you're with
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: your girlfriend who you've got so drunk, she's vomited in
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: her hair. Like he just hadn't had those experiences before,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: so it was new to him. And I think that
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: even though he was like, well that was a waste
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: of money, like why do I get Huber's there and back? Like,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I think he had fun.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Apart from the old pub night here and there it
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: was really just the two of them embarking on this
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: relationship for no one else but themselves and working out
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: if or how they could make it work long term.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: We knew from a really early stage that what I
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: really wanted and craved was children, and I wanted to
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: have a baby, And when he was in the chaotic
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be alone desperate stage of grief,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: he was like, yep, I'll give that to you, like
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: of course, like we'd talk about babies names, and he
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: was like. We met at a cafe once and he
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: said I'm all in, Like whatever you want, I'm one
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: hundred percent in. And I was like, oh my god,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: like he's all in with me, like I can get
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: this entire life with him. And then over time, as
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: he waded through the grief he was feeling, he sort
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: of came to me and he said, look, I'm actually
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: never going to have a baby with you, and I
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: don't want to get remarried. I didn't take him seriously
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: for quite some time, and it was always a conversation
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: we'd have and then we'd put it away. We'd just
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: sort of very much sweep it under the rug, like okay, well,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: that's not a today issue anyway, We've got time. We
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: don't need to work this all out now, you know
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: what couple plants having kids in the first twelve months anyway,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: kind of think. So that sort of where things were
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: at where I think we're both hoping the other person
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: would negotiate, and he would he would come up with suggestions,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I suppose, like he'd be like, why don't you use
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: a sperm downer? And then the baby's not technically mine,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: but I'd still help you raise it. But it was
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: just that he wasn't prepared to have another baby because
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: there was lots of milestones in life he didn't want
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: to experience with another woman like he had them with
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: his wife, and he had a sense of loyalty to
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: not doing them again. And also his age was a factor.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: He said, my kids have grown like I've nearly done
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: my job as a parent. He's only got a couple
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: of years left with his youngest, and he said, I'm
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: not doing that. I'm not starting from scratch, Like I'm
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: not young enough and I'm not fit enough, and i
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: don't have it in me to be awake all night
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: with a crying baby. So yeah, it was It was
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: just a long time of both of us trying to
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: negotiate and hope that the other would change their mind.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I was convinced I could change his mind for a
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: really long time. I thought, no, like, you're going to
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: love me enough to want all of this with me.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: And he really did love her. They wouldn't go a
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: day without speaking, and soon enough without seeing each other,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: which of course at a point meant also meeting his kids.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: But I met them, probably by the August. I think
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: he introduced the idea to his kids as like I
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: was just a nice friend, and they were so gracious
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: in meeting me. They were lovely. I was very lucky
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: in that space. I mean I was. We would always
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: joke because I was actually closer in age to his
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: son than I was to him. But yeah, his kids
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: were really accepting of me. I think they knew, probably
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: not straight away, but over time they became aware that
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: we really cared for each other and that we were
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: sort of in a relationship. I remember I felt like
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: in my mind, I was like, it's too soon. But
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: who was I to tell him what decisions to make
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: with his own children. I was like, oh my god,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Like he'd text me one day and he said, like,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I told my kids about you today, and I was like, WHOA,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Like what do you mean? You know this is wild, but.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: There was still something holding him back from bringing her
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: into his life one hundred percent. It was pretty obvious
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: to see the elephant in the room.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I always felt a bit like an impostor in his
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: life because I knew I wasn't the person he wanted there.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: So I always sat with that knowledge that he would,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: you know, like kick me out the door in an
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: instant if he could get the person back he wanted
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: in that room with him. I grew to live with that,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: and I grew to know that that was the all
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I could ask of him. I couldn't ask of him
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: to reassure me that he would pick me over her
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: or anything like that, because that was so unreasonable. So
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I just had to accept my space in his life
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: and that was all he could offer me. But it
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: was hard because for me, he was everything. He had
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: a milestone birthday, his fiftieth birthday, and he was sort
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: of planning it and he made a comment like, oh,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: you might be invited, and I laughed, and I thought,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: this man is joking. What do you mean I might
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: be invited, and I thought he was being a bit silly,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: and then his son sort of like chuckled nervously, and
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: I was like, are you serious, And he just said, like,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: I just don't know if I can face the judgment
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: from all of my friends to know that I've partnered. Yeah,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I'd always been very understanding and very respectful of my
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: place in his life. But I was devastated, Like I thought,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: how can you not invite me? So he did end
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: up inviting me, and I went to his fiftieth birthday
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: and met all of his family and all of his friends.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I was just introduced as Carli. I wasn't introduced as
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: like this is my girlfriend or my friend. He just
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: introduced me by name, and that was all there was
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: to it.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: James also never fully committed to have Carly move in
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: with him, not even after more than a year together.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: In the early days, he was like, just pack up
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: and move on in and I was like, no, that's
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: not reasonable. And then after about twelve months he was
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: sort of like, I don't actually know if I'll ever
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: want to live with you, but I have. He owned
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: multiple properties and he said I've got this one property
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: it's really local, and I'll let you live in it
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: and you can just pay two hundred dollars a week
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: rent so we can live near each other. And I'm
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: self employed for work and all of my clients and
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: my work is really close to home. And I said, well,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: that means giving up all of my clients, and I'm
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: giving up living in the same sort of regional part
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: of town as all my family and all my friends
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: to live alone in one of your units, but not
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: with you. So I was like, no, thank you, you know, respectfully, no,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: you know, And I know that that was him trying
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: to compromise, but I don't think he saw the bigger
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: picture that I wasn't moving an hour and a half
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: away to live by myself.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Carlie understood the intricacies of the relationship they were in.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: She knew it wasn't cut and dry and was never
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: going to be as simple as meeting someone her own
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: age who hadn't recently lost someone. But she knew they
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: were deeply in love. If she could be patient and understanding,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: so would he. He was her future and she is.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: The baby conversation had been one that was ongoing, and
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: another conversation that wasn't ongoing, but just for context, was
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: that he is a multi millionaire and has a very
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: vast property portfolio and sort of lives just off the
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: interest of his investments. He doesn't need to earn money,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: and he lives a very comfortable life. And he had
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: always said to me from the start that that money
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: was for his children and that no matter who he
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: ended up partnered with or in a relationship with like
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: that money would be protected from any partner in the future.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: And he was always very clear about that as well.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: And so it got to a point where I probably
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have done this, but I had sent him a
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: screenshot of like a period tracking app saying my p
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: was one day late, and I sort of jokingly said like,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: oh god, what have you done? And he just went
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: straight into panic mode. He called me and is like, well,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: what are you going to do? And then he accused
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: me of sort of like baby trapping him into this,
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: into having a baby, and he said, I'm going to
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: put all of my assets into the trusts that are
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: in my kids' names, and you're the baby won't see
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: anything from me, Like you're not taking my money for
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: this baby. Oh, and then he also said and also
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I'd need a paternity test. And I was just like ropeable,
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: and I said, you know what I will do is
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: I will fuck your life up. You have no idea
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: how much I will fuck your life up. And I
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: will fuck up your perfect little trust funds. And if
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: you've got three kids, there will be three trust funds.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: There won't just be two any more. And We've hung
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: up the phone, enraged, in rage really each other and
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: didn't speak for days. It felt awful because I felt
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: like he was reducing all the love I had for him,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: was just coming down to his money. And I was thinking, like,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I spend six hours a week in my car to
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: see you. How could you say this is about money,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: or if it was, like I would have stopped seeing
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: you ten months ago when you stopped paying me, Like
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: I was so offended by the whole suggestion. Really, I
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: never questioned the rest of our relationship. I knew that
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: he just had big reactions to things when they happened,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: and that was a theme, like he would just blow
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: up and then get over it really quickly. So I
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: didn't question the rest of the relationship or how he
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: felt about me. But it made me mad because I
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: didn't like what else was I meant to have done
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: to have proved how much I loved him. This is
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: where I'm going to cry. We didn't speak for a
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: few days, and we spoke again and he said, I
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: think it was like, how would you feel about going
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: out for dinner or something? And we didn't end up
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: going out for dinner. We ended up meeting at his house,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: and we just knew it was the end going there.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I knew that that was it for us.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: So we just held each other and I just told
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: him how much I loved him, and how grateful I
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: was that he had saved my life and put it
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: back track, and that he had healed me in so
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: many ways, and everything was forgiven and there was no anger,
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: and we just left loving each other but knowing ultimately
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: that we wanted and needed different things in life and
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: that was just how it needed to be. He was
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: amazing during that conversation, so I just sort of lay
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: in his arms, just crying. And it was the first
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: time that.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I didn't try to change myself to make things better,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: like every other time we'd fight about a baby, I
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: would say to him, I've been living without a baby
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: I don't have one now, and I'm okay, but I
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: have you, and I can't be okay with you. So
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: I used to say, look at me, I'm already living
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: without a baby, but I couldn't live without you. And
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: the last time we saw each other was the only
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: time I realized I needed to get what I wanted
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: out life. I think that he had built me up
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: enough that I didn't need him, and I think he
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: was a bit of like a safety net for me
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: because he did. He just always made me so calm.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to let go of any of it.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: The safety and the security and the containment and everything
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: that I had never felt before. I couldn't imagine life
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: without him, because more than anything, he was just my
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: very best friend. He was the person I could talk
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: to about everything, and he was the biggest part of
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: every day of my life. The drive home was rough.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I remember needing to leave. It was sort of at
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: the point where it's like there's nothing left to say
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: and there's nothing left to do. I need to leave,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And the thought of leaving his house knowing I was
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: never going back was sickening, Like I was like my
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: legs were shaking, and I just felt like I couldn't
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: walk to his front door. Of course, we were still talking,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: not every day and not consistently, but I would still
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: reach out to him. I think I was reaching out
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: to him to try to get those feelings of being
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: safe back. So after we stopped speaking, I started experiencing
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: horrendous anxiety at nighttime, just horrendous, like I was feeling
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: like nauseated and I couldn't sleep, And it was debilitating
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: every or to get this anxiety. So some nights I'd
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: call him just to make it go away.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: It was the worst heartbreak she'd ever experienced, but she
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: didn't even feel like she had anyone to lean on.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: It was difficult. So because of his jealousy and some
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: of the fights we had, he could be quite insensitive
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: at times as well. He would just make comments without
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: thinking about them. So one time, if we're sitting on
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: the couch, I got put my legs up on him,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: and he referred to my legs as feeling like concrete
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: stumps or all of the trust issues we had, a
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: lot of my friends were sort of like red flag,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: like you need to leave him, Like this isn't good,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Like he's mean about your appearance, and he doesn't trust
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: you and you don't deserve that. But I just I
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: saw through all of that because I saw no malice.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Like I didn't think he's got trust issues because he's
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: a red flag. I thought he's a man who hasn't
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: dated in thirty years and he's come from the comfort
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: of a I think it was a twenty three year marriage.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Of course, he's going to be jealous when he's dating
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: a thirty year old who's attractive and young, and like,
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I just felt like almost a compliment that he was jealous.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Like I didn't see it as like a red flag
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: that all my friends did. So by the time it
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: came to an end, my friends were well and truly
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: over hearing about what was going on. Anyway, they were
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: sort of like, you know, you deserve better. And it's
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: not that I didn't think I deserved better, because I
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: think he is amazing, But it was just like they
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: didn't see what I saw. I guess no one knew
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: what he meant to me.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: The weeks went by with Carli trying to heal on
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: her own and look ahead to a life without James.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Over time, she stopped calling him. She knew she had
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: to do this on her own and she had to
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: let go, and soon enough he helped her do that.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: One thing was that we had always sort of made
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: an agreement that neither of us would ever go back
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: on the website where we found each other, like it
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: was so detrimental to both of us, and were like,
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: we can neither of us can ever go back there.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: And he sent me a text after maybe three weeks saying,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: so I had asked for space. I said, I'm not
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: going to be able to sort of let go of
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: this if we keep being best friends and we keep talking.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: And he texted me saying, you know, I know you
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: asked for space, but I just want to I think
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: you should know that I've signed up to RSVP, And
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: that was like relief for me, Like I felt like, okay,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: like he's really closing the door. Now I can move
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: on with my life because he is. And I think
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: because he always had that jealousy and he, you know,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: never quite believed that I loved him. I didn't want
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: to be the first one to make a big move
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: in life because I could just picture him thinking in
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: his frain like oh she had that planned all along,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: or and I just I was really a relief when
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: he told me he was going to start dating again.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: I thought, great, like you've set me free, Like I
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: can be free now because you are. There were a
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: few times where we'd gotten into our fights and I
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: had felt relief when we had said, Okay, well we
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: want different things, we'll just break up, And in the moment,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: nearly every time i'd feel relief. I think because I
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: knew that I would never get the whole big picture
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: of what I wanted out of life with him, and
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: so I knew that I was giving up giving up
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: some really big things to be with him. It felt
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: really freeing, and it felt like the relationship had served
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: a purpose, and that purpose was going to be lifelong,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: like he had helped me for the rest of my life.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's just because we crammed so much into
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: sort of eighteen months of healing for each other. The
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: version of him that I met was so far away
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: from the version of him that we left each other
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: at as well. He was okay to be alone by
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: the time we stopped seeing each other, whereas at the
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: start he was paying women frequently for their time. And
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: he's okay alone now, which is really nice.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: It's been two years now since James and Carly split
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: and she's doing well too. They still speak from time
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: to time. That's one thing she doesn't think will ever change.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: So I think that the love I have for him
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: is it's just something I'm not willing to compromise on
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: at this stage. You'll probably ever Like you know, I
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: feel quite assertive in all of my relationships and that
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I'm able to say the important people who I sort
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: of non negotiables in my life, and here's one of them.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: It's just knowing he's there that's nice, and knowing that
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I know that if I called him, he'd always be
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: there for me. On that last time we saw each other,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: he did say like when I do have a baby,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: like he'll come and see my baby and he'll be
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: so happy for me. Healing from him occurred while I
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: was still with him, because the experience I had with
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: him built me up to being a stronger person. I
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: think he helped me with multiple things, But one of
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: my biggest takeaways is that I realized how many people
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I probably never gave the time of day two I
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: know for sure, like if he had just met me
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: in a bar and asked to buy me a drink,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: like I would have said, no, I'm not interested, just
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: based on his appearance. I had to do a lot
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: of reflection on like how I got to that point,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: How many people have I missed out on amazing opportunities
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: with because I was I wouldn't call myself shallow, but
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I definitely had a type that I would pay more
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: attention to than others. And unfortunately, if our relationship hadn't
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: started by him paying me, I wouldn't have got to
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: know him as a person, and I wouldn't have found
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: one of my soulmates in this world. So he's definitely
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: taught me to give everyone a chance in life. Because
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: we didn't have similar interests or hobbies or definitely didn't
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: have similar political or social views at all, but he
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: was my best friend. And you know, I'm a believer
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: that you have sort of like multiple soulmates in your life,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: and I like, I'm really confident that he was one
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: of mine and that we needed to meet. I think
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: that my story is important because of how much I
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: learned about beauty only being skin deep and all of
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: those other sayings that you hear growing up. But I
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: didn't realize how true they were until this relationship, and
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize how much I needed to reevaluate my
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: own morals and my own values and looking at the
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: importance of relationships for me, because if I had missed
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: out on this one, I would just hate to think
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: where things would have ended up. I think I healed
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: a lot by knowing him, by knowing that there is
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: this like, there's feelings of safety that I can achieve,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: and if I achieve them with him, then I can
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: do them by myself or with other people. So it
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: was nice. I definitely feel a lot more secure in
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: who I am that I don't have this need for
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: everyone to love me like I used to. It used
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: to be so consuming that I didn't believe people could
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: ever love me enough. I felt like people loved me
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: out of obligation to love me, and he definitely showed
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: me that that wasn't true. Life since has been pretty
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: pretty good. I just try and keep really busy and
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: look forward to the future. Really, I think that I
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: definitely have a lot more gratitude for for life. When
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: I wake up every day, I know that good things
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: are just like unexpectedly around the corner. I don't worry
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: about not finding friends or being lonely. I just know
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: that everything's going to be okay. We've sort of made
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: an agreement like that will never sort of block each
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: other on Facebook, so we can sort of see what
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: each other's doing from time to time. And I think
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: we'll always chat intimittently. Like I said, you know, when
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: you get a new girlfriend, you have to make sure
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: she's fine with you talking to your ex because I
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: don't want to get booted when he finds someone new.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: That scares me a lot. Just the thought of not
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: having him in any capacity is scary. I think I
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: will love him forever.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Everyone has an X is a Minti Media production and
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: proudly part of the Mumamea Network. Is written and narrated
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: by me Georgia Love and produced by Linda Scott. If
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: you have a story you'd like to share, email podcast
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: at momamea dot com dot au. You can support us
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: by following the show in your favorite podcast app and
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: leaving a five star review. We'll see you for the
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: next episode.