Latest / The Parenting Podcast / When You’re in the Wrong Lane With Your Kids | Ep. 202

Transcript

When You’re in the Wrong Lane With Your Kids | Ep. 202 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:00
  Leslie: I think the moving lanes has.
• 0:01
  Leslie: To do with your heart.
• 0:04
  Speaker: When we finished last time, we said we'd come back and look at how this idea of lanes shows up in the different seasons of parenting because the relationship we have with our children keeps changing as they grow.
• 0:19
  Speaker: And loving them often means learning to meet them a little differently along the way.
• 0:26
  Speaker: I'm Cheryl Lange, host of the Parenting Podcast.
• 0:29
  Speaker: I'm really glad you're here.
• 0:31
  Speaker: So settle in for a few minutes as we continue this conversation.
• 0:42
  Cheryl: So listeners, today we are back here with Christie and Leslie Whittington.
• 0:48
  Leslie: Hello again.
• 0:49
  Cheryl: And we cranked up the mics again.
• 0:51
  Cheryl: And what this is, is the follow up on, an episode we did.
• 0:56
  Cheryl: And if you haven't heard it, you might wanna go back and listen to it
• 0:59
  Carol: because we introduced the concept.
• 1:02
  Carol: We're gonna just jump right into it.
• 1:04
  Carol: Feet first.
• 1:05
  Carol: It is the idea of five different lanes that we have in relationships, similar to the analogy of lanes on a highway and where you drive your car at different times.
• 1:19
  Carol: You need to be in different lanes.
• 1:22
  Carol: And I got this concept.
• 1:23
  Carol: from a workshop I attended and they had a different application, but I saw it applying.
• 1:29
  Carol: In relationships in my life, but also to parenting.
• 1:33
  Carol: And so a brief synopsis is that the lanes are casual.
• 1:40
  Carol: Friendly, meaningful, spiritual or values, and then equipping or teaching.
• 1:48
  Carol: And so if you're listening as a parent, we have to be fluent in all of these.
• 1:53
  Carol: Mm-hmm.
• 1:54
  Carol: Fluent and fluid.
• 1:56
  Carol: And that's what we talked about last time, is the qualities that we would bring to this to do it well and our struggles.
• 2:03
  Carol: So, what would y'all say?
• 2:04
  Carol: If you're gonna say one or two things what we need to develop if we're going to use these lanes well in relationships, what would y'all say you think is sort of important to bring to it?
• 2:16
  Christie: I think first has to be listening and awareness.
• 2:20
  Cheryl: That's
• 2:21
  Christie: good.
• 2:21
  Christie: Of where the other person's coming from, what your role is to play in the relationship.
• 2:26
  Christie: Um, and, and just mindfulness of what, what the relationship needs.
• 2:31
  Cheryl: And so that would apply to this analogy of being lanes on a highway.
• 2:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:35
  Cheryl: You have to be very present.
• 2:37
  Cheryl: We all know that to, you have to pay attention.
• 2:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:39
  Cheryl: That terrifying thing when you realized.
• 2:42
  Cheryl: I don't even remember driving the last five miles or
• 2:45
  Leslie: mm-hmm.
• 2:46
  Cheryl: That hypnotism you get when you're on a long road trip.
• 2:48
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:49
  Cheryl: And you're not paying attention.
• 2:50
  Cheryl: So I agree with that.
• 2:51
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 2:52
  Cheryl: Leslie, what would you say?
• 2:53
  Leslie: Um, definitely that paying attention and I think humility, just continuing to like, yeah.
• 2:58
  Leslie: I, and it's almost like, um hmm.
• 3:01
  Leslie: When you think about driving, it's like being aware of everyone else too.
• 3:05
  Leslie: Mm.
• 3:05
  Leslie: Not just, you know, I'm driving and I'm driving.
• 3:07
  Leslie: Right.
• 3:07
  Leslie: But people around you may not be.
• 3:09
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 3:09
  Leslie: And so being aware and Yeah.
• 3:11
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 3:12
  Cheryl: Excellent.
• 3:12
  Leslie: It's not just about me.
• 3:13
  Leslie: Right.
• 3:13
  Leslie: Right.
• 3:14
  Cheryl: So if we think about these lane and what we kind of, the conclusion we came to is we have to be sensitive and aware.
• 3:21
  Cheryl: Uh, in our relationships to know what
• 3:24
  Carol: lane
• 3:25
  Cheryl: loves the other person best.
• 3:26
  Cheryl: Mm, what do we need to do?
• 3:28
  Cheryl: And that sometimes it's out of our comfort zone.
• 3:30
  Cheryl: For example, I might not want to go into the teaching guiding directing lane.
• 3:37
  Carol: instead I say, Can't we just be nice to each other and have a fun time instead of having to get into this deep issue and now I have to act like a mom, parent you or.
• 3:49
  Carol: I want to get into this deep lane, and I want to have this deep, meaningful training conversation and they just want come mom quit.
• 3:57
  Carol: We just wanna swing on the swing set.
• 3:58
  Carol: Leave us alone.
• 3:59
  Carol: Mm-hmm.
• 3:59
  Carol: Whatever age they are.
• 4:01
  Carol: Mm-hmm.
• 4:02
  Carol: So that's why I wants to talk about it.
• 4:03
  Carol: Okay.
• 4:04
  Carol: Just looking at your parenting in general, which lane was easiest or more natural for you to be in?
• 4:10
  Christie: Hmm.
• 4:11
  Christie: Probably.
• 4:13
  Christie: The meaningful spiritual values lanes were probably where I often wanted to go.
• 4:21
  Christie: I, I, I had this, and most moms probably feel this, but I had this like strong.
• 4:28
  Christie: There was probably a lot of fear involved in it.
• 4:30
  Christie: Strong desire to prepare my kids for adulthood.
• 4:34
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 4:34
  Christie: And that sounds like a really good thing, but sometimes they just, we were just playing candy land, you know, we didn't, I didn't need to go there all the time.
• 4:42
  Christie: And so I, I think I would catastrophize a lot if.
• 4:45
  Christie: If they had one little fib, they told, I thought, oh, great, now they're gonna be in prison because they're gonna, you know, be writing bad checks or, you know, I just had
• 4:54
  Cheryl: this, you cheated in candy land.
• 4:56
  Christie: Right.
• 4:56
  Christie: So now you've cheated on your taxes.
• 4:58
  Cheryl: So now let's talk about honesty and truth and justice.
• 5:02
  Christie: Yes.
• 5:03
  Cheryl: What about you, Leslie?
• 5:04
  Leslie: I wa I was gonna say the same thing.
• 5:05
  Leslie: The meaningful spiritual, I think that's where I feel most comfortable because it feels more authentic.
• 5:11
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 5:11
  Leslie: And that's kind of how I roll.
• 5:13
  Leslie: But, um, but I will say also in the teaching, like I, coming from an education background, a lot of.
• 5:21
  Leslie: Teaching is demonstrating like in your, demonstrating your thinking out loud.
• 5:26
  Leslie: And so I did that a lot with my kids when they were young and um, and I think probably continued a little too far, but, um, as we all did.
• 5:35
  Leslie: But because growing up is shocking, right?
• 5:37
  Cheryl: It sure is.
• 5:38
  Leslie: It, it shocks us when they.
• 5:40
  Leslie: Start growing up into this other person.
• 5:43
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:44
  Cheryl: And I would say I'm a naturally friendly.
• 5:47
  Cheryl: Person, but uh, this is the weight I carried all the time, just like what y'all are saying and wanting to get into
• 5:54
  Cheryl A: those meaningful lanes.
• 5:56
  Cheryl A: And I have to be careful.
• 5:57
  Cheryl A: Oh, like.
• 5:58
  Cheryl A: I can see how to teach through this.
• 6:00
  Cheryl A: I need to just be friendly and casual.
• 6:02
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 6:02
  Cheryl A: So my mistake, my default would be way over there too much.
• 6:07
  Cheryl A: The teaching.
• 6:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 6:08
  Cheryl: Right.
• 6:08
  Cheryl: I was too comfortable with it.
• 6:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:10
  Christie: I will say, uh, in the same breath, I could say that I, I would get frustrated when I had to teach through something.
• 6:17
  Christie: I just, sometimes I just wanted.
• 6:19
  Christie: Them to automatically know everything Well.
• 6:21
  Christie: True.
• 6:21
  Leslie: True.
• 6:22
  Christie: And so I think that was a, a drift also.
• 6:25
  Christie: Yeah.
• 6:25
  Cheryl: Oh, good.
• 6:26
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 6:26
  Cheryl: So how about if we now put some.
• 6:30
  Cheryl: Road trip.
• 6:31
  Cheryl: Let's put some wheels to what we've been talking about.
• 6:33
  Christie: We love a theme around here.
• 6:36
  Christie: Carry it all the way through.
• 6:38
  Cheryl: And let's begin with the early years.
• 6:41
  Cheryl: Let's say up to 10 maybe.
• 6:44
  Cheryl: How do y'all see this, uh, picture working in lanes of relationship with our little ones?
• 6:52
  Cheryl: See.
• 6:53
  Cheryl: I just thought I had full access to all of it all the time.
• 6:56
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 6:57
  Cheryl: You know, you have all the lanes, I have the responsibility to teach and to train.
• 7:02
  Cheryl: And I would say with young ones, particularly five and under, there's so much training.
• 7:07
  Leslie: Yes.
• 7:08
  Leslie: Well, I would say that I think that's the easiest.
• 7:11
  Leslie: It's exhausting, but it's also the easiest because you know your purpose.
• 7:15
  Cheryl: Simplest.
• 7:15
  Leslie: Makes the simplest, the simplest is really good.
• 7:16
  Leslie: Yeah, that's a good, that's a good, very good.
• 7:19
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 7:20
  Cheryl: Term.
• 7:20
  Cheryl: It's really frustrating.
• 7:22
  Leslie: Yes.
• 7:22
  Cheryl: When you go, there's road construction here, right?
• 7:25
  Cheryl: And I want to move on.
• 7:27
  Cheryl: Right.
• 7:27
  Cheryl: I wanna move
• 7:27
  Leslie: on.
• 7:28
  Cheryl: And we still don't dunno, tires.
• 7:29
  Cheryl: I've told you we, how many times have I said.
• 7:32
  Cheryl: Before you leave the table, you have to pick up your plates.
• 7:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:35
  Cheryl: And you have to.
• 7:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:35
  Cheryl: I mean, I am tired of this very slow teaching lane.
• 7:40
  Cheryl: I wanna get moving on.
• 7:42
  Christie: Right.
• 7:42
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 7:43
  Leslie: And I think we, we do, I think that patience,'cause you know, it's like, well, let's.
• 7:47
  Leslie: Figure out a way around it.
• 7:49
  Leslie: I'd rather, you know, the tying the shoe thing.
• 7:50
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:51
  Leslie: I'd rather tie the shoe than sit and wait for him to, you know.
• 7:54
  Leslie: Um, but I, I think that's analogy for a lot of things.
• 7:58
  Leslie: We want it to move quickly.
• 7:59
  Leslie: I've shown you, I've told you you should get it, and they don't.
• 8:02
  Leslie: And so sometimes it is slow.
• 8:04
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:04
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 8:04
  Leslie: That's that frustrating.
• 8:05
  Leslie: Slow traffic.
• 8:06
  Leslie: Right?
• 8:07
  Christie: It.
• 8:08
  Christie: The equipping and teaching in practical matters.
• 8:12
  Christie: There's not a lot of meaning or spiritual values.
• 8:15
  Christie: There is some character training in those years, obviously, but in the really early years, it's mostly, like you guys are saying, the tying the shoe, the putting your backpack where it belongs.
• 8:26
  Christie: The, the practical things are the things, things being gentle with sister.
• 8:30
  Christie: Yes.
• 8:31
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 8:31
  Cheryl: And what I'm seeing is if we have this gamut of this mm-hmm.
• 8:36
  Cheryl: Casual, friendly, all the way to equipping that I equip.
• 8:39
  Cheryl: Best when I'm doing it in a casual, friendly way.
• 8:43
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:44
  Cheryl: Because I get tired.
• 8:45
  Cheryl: This, I said
• 8:47
  Christie: yes.
• 8:47
  Cheryl: And even in my heart, instead of remembering I need to be friendly when I've told you mm-hmm.
• 8:53
  Cheryl: 50 times in the last month.
• 8:55
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:56
  Cheryl: And, and I'm still doing, you know, it's much faster and easier for me to do a chore.
• 9:02
  Cheryl: Myself, and it's gonna be better.
• 9:04
  Cheryl: But if I stay friendly as I'm teaching, I'm a much better parent.
• 9:08
  Christie: Right.
• 9:09
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 9:09
  Cheryl: Anything else in this, in this age?
• 9:11
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 9:11
  Leslie: I, wow.
• 9:12
  Leslie: I'm just going really far with the analogy because it, because it is very,
• 9:17
  Cheryl: it's a good one, isn't a good
• 9:18
  Leslie: one.
• 9:18
  Leslie: It is the resiliency you have to have in those early years.
• 9:22
  Leslie: And it's exhausting and you're slow traffic and you're moving and you're, ah, this is never gonna end.
• 9:28
  Leslie: And then as they get older, it's the, the danger that is so much bigger mm-hmm.
• 9:35
  Leslie: And so much more apparent.
• 9:36
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:36
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 9:37
  Cheryl: I was a little shocked I think what you were alluding to.
• 9:40
  Cheryl: I thought all that training and meaningful and relationship building would carry over a whole lot more to the teen years.
• 9:51
  Christie: Mm, mm-hmm.
• 9:52
  Christie: Yes.
• 9:53
  Christie: I,
• 9:53
  Cheryl: I expected faster lanes and mm-hmm.
• 9:56
  Cheryl: Now I didn't have to tell'em oh, you You need to clear your plates when you're finished eating all that pizza.
• 10:01
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 10:01
  Cheryl: I just thought the training would take a little better.
• 10:04
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:05
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:05
  Christie: I re I remember being really diligent at connecting the Why Uhhuh when I was teaching them something.
• 10:13
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:13
  Christie: We wanna do this.
• 10:14
  Christie: So that mm-hmm.
• 10:15
  Christie: You know, your room stays tidy or so that you're showing respect to the rest of the family or attaching that meaningful to the practical.
• 10:23
  Christie: And I too thought since I had laid all this groundwork, we would just coast through the next 10 years because I told them so surely they know now.
• 10:31
  Christie: Well,
• 10:33
  Leslie: how naive.
• 10:34
  Cheryl: But it's the same thing.
• 10:35
  Cheryl: We expect our roadways to stay pothole free.
• 10:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 10:40
  Cheryl: We expect to have the lanes miraculously grow with the city as a city.
• 10:45
  Cheryl: Yeah, true.
• 10:45
  Cheryl: Or the area gets more congested.
• 10:47
  Cheryl: We don't want to go through road Construction.
• 10:50
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:50
  Cheryl: Maintenance detours and maintenance.
• 10:53
  Cheryl: And we just get real spoiled thinking going into the teen years.
• 10:56
  Leslie: Well, and I'll even go back to the pre-teen years because, um, I taught fourth grade for a while, and I think at that 10, 11-year-old right before they start hitting Yeah,
• 11:05
  Cheryl: yeah.
• 11:05
  Leslie: The real teen years.
• 11:07
  Leslie: Um, there's.
• 11:08
  Leslie: Oh, there, even in that, there's that shock.
• 11:11
  Leslie: I always have parents go, I can't believe this is so weird.
• 11:13
  Leslie: Like like they start not telling you everything because their peers are, and so it is that in that, I think in that stage you're still teaching, but I think you move into just a friendly, casual.
• 11:26
  Leslie: You know, kind of just having fun with them so that they will open up at some point Right.
• 11:30
  Leslie: About something Yep.
• 11:31
  Leslie: To move into something meaningful, that pivotal
• 11:32
  Christie: point where things
• 11:33
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 11:33
  Christie: Just start shifting.
• 11:34
  Leslie: And I think that's when it starts building relationship with them in a different way is even before the teen years, like when they're starting to care more about what their, what their peers think than their parents.
• 11:45
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 11:46
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 11:46
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 11:47
  Cheryl: The problem is it's like when I was teaching my children to drive and then there's driving on their own and they had to get somewhere where there were highways in the city and with the speeding traffic in the changing of the lanes and there they're a young driver.
• 12:05
  Cheryl: I knew how dangerous that was, right?
• 12:07
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:07
  Cheryl: You have to be aware.
• 12:09
  Cheryl: Yeah, and so actually I can remember with one of mine, they hadn't had much experience.
• 12:14
  Cheryl: They didn't want to spend an extra hour going across town at every stoplight, and so I would remind them when you get close to this area, there's a feed in from the right and they're not slowing down.
• 12:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:27
  Cheryl: They're used to feeding in really fast and so you're gonna have to watch behind you and, and.
• 12:33
  Cheryl: I know the dangers, right?
• 12:35
  Cheryl: And what you're talking about is, is you are start moving into that.
• 12:38
  Cheryl: We see this faster speed limit and all of the things, and yet we have to back.
• 12:45
  Cheryl: Off
• 12:46
  Christie: Right.
• 12:46
  Cheryl: On that teaching and maybe meaningful to navigate it well.
• 12:51
  Christie: Well, I'm, yeah.
• 12:51
  Christie: And you mentioned, you know, fourth, fifth, sixth grade, that those are really sweet years.
• 12:56
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:57
  Christie: That you do wanna turn up the volume on that friendly mm-hmm.
• 13:00
  Christie: Part because like you're saying, we know the dangers that are coming down the pike.
• 13:04
  Christie: We know what the teen years, to some degree or another, like we were saying, we, we didn't see it all coming, but because we've all walked through teen years, you know what's coming and they.
• 13:14
  Christie: Need to have that last ditch effort of reminder of, Hey, in the end I want us to still be friends.
• 13:21
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:21
  Christie: Like I'm still on your side.
• 13:23
  Christie: I'm still rooting for you.
• 13:24
  Christie: I care about your, you know, Lego set or your book series you're reading.
• 13:29
  Christie: I wanna hear about your world.
• 13:31
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 13:31
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 13:31
  Cheryl: So what are the shifts in the teen years that make staying in the equipping lane so complicated or difficult?
• 13:38
  Cheryl: Why can't we do that?
• 13:41
  Leslie: Well, I think their road gets bumpier.
• 13:44
  Leslie: I mean, they've got hormones they've got.
• 13:45
  Leslie: Pressures, different things going on and more people speaking into their lives.
• 13:48
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 13:49
  Leslie: And I think they get a lot bumpier and so they're not as comfortable with us.
• 13:53
  Christie: Right.
• 13:54
  Leslie: Just speaking into everything and Yeah.
• 13:56
  Leslie: They're trying to figure things out.
• 13:58
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:58
  Christie: And they're starting to smell the aroma of releasing and independence.
• 14:04
  Christie: And, and we are too.
• 14:05
  Christie: That's why we wanna turn that volume up.
• 14:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:08
  Christie: We are, we're sensing it's coming to an end.
• 14:11
  Christie: I want to hold on tight and they're saying it's coming to an end.
• 14:15
  Christie: You need to start letting go.
• 14:17
  Leslie: right?
• 14:18
  Cheryl: But also even if the child isn't aware of it, we've just talked about the way we love them.
• 14:25
  Cheryl: Well.
• 14:25
  Cheryl: Is by taking our hands off the reins.
• 14:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:28
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:28
  Cheryl: And I'm just thinking about it.
• 14:31
  Cheryl: If I keep connecting all the dots for them and reminding, uh, it's like Siri, using Siri to drive.
• 14:40
  Cheryl: I remember the first time.
• 14:42
  Cheryl: Garmin or whatever mm-hmm.
• 14:44
  Cheryl: I needed it, but I thought, oh, this makes me so stupid if I use this all the time, having no idea what, where did that I would be taking us.
• 14:53
  Cheryl: But if we do
• 14:55
  Carol: gps too much for them We're.
• 14:57
  Carol: Not having our children handle their things right, and that we need to shift and let consequences gps them Instead let them get the traffic tickets, let them fail the test, all of these things while they're still at home and we can walk with them if they want to.
• 15:15
  Carol: Mm-hmm.
• 15:16
  Carol: And feel that burn.
• 15:17
  Carol: We talk about it, but that's what makes it hard.
• 15:20
  Carol: 'cause we see the pain and the loss,
• 15:23
  Christie: right?
• 15:23
  Cheryl: And.
• 15:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 15:24
  Cheryl: We can't always step in and prevent it and we shouldn't.
• 15:27
  Christie: Right, right.
• 15:28
  Christie: But it's, I mean, the visual I have is like a 17, 18-year-old kid riding a little bike with training wheels to college.
• 15:36
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:36
  Christie: You know that we know there's risks in taking those training wheels off.
• 15:40
  Christie: We know there's risks in putting them behind the wheel of a car.
• 15:44
  Christie: That's what it takes to mature.
• 15:46
  Christie: That's what it takes to grow.
• 15:47
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:47
  Christie: And to step into adulthood and
• 15:49
  Cheryl: I mean, this is so wise.
• 15:52
  Cheryl: I wish I'd learned this.
• 15:53
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 15:54
  Leslie: Well, and 30 years ago, I wanna go back like the teen years, there was a time that, and our, and our child wanted our, wanted, our opinions, and so I feel like we were in that, not even the teaching necessarily at times, but.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: Well, guiding, I mean,
• 16:14
  Leslie: advising,
• 16:15
  Cheryl: guiding,
• 16:15
  Leslie: advising, guiding.
• 16:16
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 16:16
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 16:17
  Leslie: But I think in, in this child in particular, Where they were at, I think, wanted our guidance and it almost would've been easier for this.
• 16:30
  Leslie: Child to accept our teaching and us telling them what to do.
• 16:35
  Leslie: But instead, we were saying, this is what we think and this is why, and you've gotta do whatever you think is best.
• 16:42
  Leslie: Right.
• 16:42
  Leslie: And I think that was really hard because they, they didn't agree completely and they wanted to do something else.
• 16:51
  Leslie: Mm.
• 16:51
  Leslie: And so I think in that it was, we had to pull back in some way and say.
• 16:58
  Leslie: Okay.
• 16:58
  Leslie: We don't agree with this, and you still have to make your own decision right on it.
• 17:04
  Leslie: And we still love you.
• 17:05
  Leslie: I mean, it's, and
• 17:05
  Christie: sometimes that's the benefit that comes from it is the practice of them making the decision,
• 17:11
  Leslie: right?
• 17:11
  Christie: Depending on what the weight of the consequences might be.
• 17:14
  Christie: Yeah.
• 17:14
  Christie: For the bad decision, you have to let them.
• 17:18
  Christie: Go through the process of making that decision, making the wrong decision.
• 17:22
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 17:22
  Christie: Suffering the consequence and recovering from it.
• 17:24
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 17:25
  Christie: And that in itself is an experience they, they need to learn to
• 17:29
  Leslie: experience.
• 17:29
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 17:29
  Leslie: And I, I think it was just hard for all of us because it was so new and, yes.
• 17:34
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:34
  Cheryl: It was just, it's the problem.
• 17:35
  Cheryl: It's new territory it territory
• 17:37
  Leslie: it's,
• 17:37
  Cheryl: yeah.
• 17:37
  Cheryl: And by kind of the time you kind of get it.
• 17:39
  Cheryl: A little bit down.
• 17:41
  Cheryl: They
• 17:41
  Leslie: changed
• 17:42
  Cheryl: moving
• 17:42
  Christie: they,
• 17:42
  Cheryl: there
• 17:43
  Christie: needs to be about two more years in the teen years.
• 17:45
  Christie: But we wouldn't survive.
• 17:46
  Leslie: No, we wouldn't survive it.
• 17:48
  Cheryl: Well, I always say we need 18 years or so, so we can be mature enough for the next stage
• 17:54
  Leslie: as yes,
• 17:54
  Cheryl: we can be mature enough.
• 17:55
  Cheryl: Not
• 17:55
  Leslie: the kids but the parents.
• 17:57
  Leslie: Right.
• 17:58
  Cheryl: One of the things I'm thinking about,'cause we always say authenticity and genuineness, that we need to be authentically genuine enough to say it's your decision.
• 18:07
  Christie: Mm.
• 18:08
  Cheryl: Even when they're still at home, we may have to be part of the consequences.
• 18:12
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 18:13
  Cheryl: But we have to stay, let's say, friendly and casual and that we never say, ha ha told you so, right?
• 18:20
  Leslie: Yes.
• 18:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:20
  Cheryl: Have you done what we said?
• 18:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:22
  Cheryl: We can't do that backlash.
• 18:23
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:23
  Cheryl: That's worse to say I told you so.
• 18:25
  Christie: Right.
• 18:26
  Christie: To say objective in that process and let
• 18:28
  Christie (2): them,
• 18:28
  Cheryl: We
• 18:29
  Leslie: don't even have to say it.
• 18:30
  Leslie: They can see it on our face.
• 18:31
  Leslie: Sure.
• 18:31
  Cheryl: We're filling
• 18:32
  Leslie: it.
• 18:32
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 18:33
  Cheryl: And that's the casual friendly, I need to stay in those lanes.
• 18:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 18:36
  Cheryl: Casual and friendly.
• 18:36
  Cheryl: Never says, ha ha ha, you didn't do it.
• 18:38
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:39
  Cheryl: Right.
• 18:39
  Cheryl: That, on that end of it, it's so hard.
• 18:43
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:43
  Leslie: I think the moving lanes has.
• 18:45
  Leslie: To do with your heart.
• 18:46
  Leslie: Right.
• 18:46
  Leslie: It to do with, I will be okay with whatever you choose, even if it's hard for both of us.
• 18:53
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 18:54
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 18:54
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 18:54
  Leslie: It's, yeah.
• 18:55
  Leslie: Being in the lane that it's like, this is just how it is.
• 18:58
  Christie: You're showing them, you know, say we're talking about a 16, 17, 8, 18-year-old kid.
• 19:04
  Christie: You're showing them who you're gonna be.
• 19:06
  Christie: As their parent when they're 26, 27, 28.
• 19:09
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:10
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:10
  Christie: Makes sense.
• 19:10
  Christie: They're gonna make, makes sense.
• 19:11
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:11
  Christie: Wrong decisions in those years too.
• 19:14
  Christie: And who do I wanna be in our relationship at that point?
• 19:18
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:18
  Cheryl: So like I just said, we have about 18 years to.
• 19:23
  Cheryl: To 20 years to prepare to release our children so that maybe we're a little more seasoned, Mm-hmm.
• 19:28
  Cheryl: Because I just think it's by far the most complicated.
• 19:31
  Cheryl: And you know, I mean, we've said it so many times here, but I talked to a whole lot of parents, not only my experience, but their experience.
• 19:38
  Cheryl: And they're just shocked.
• 19:39
  Cheryl: Their breath has taken away.
• 19:41
  Cheryl: They had no idea.
• 19:42
  Cheryl: And then particularly.
• 19:44
  Cheryl: Heartbroken because they don't have a relationship anymore, which they felt they used to.
• 19:50
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 19:50
  Cheryl: And see, I think this helps explain it a little bit because I would say you are forgetting what your lane should be and that we have to back off.
• 19:59
  Cheryl: Way completely away from the equipping.
• 20:03
  Cheryl: I mean, maybe meaningful.
• 20:04
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:05
  Cheryl: And values based, we have to be very sensitive about where we should be in that and.
• 20:11
  Cheryl: It's really hard because we've had a whole lifetime of doing that and we love them so much.
• 20:18
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:18
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:18
  Cheryl: I don't wanna go back to those
• 20:19
  Carol: lanes
• 20:21
  Cheryl: It feels superficial,
• 20:23
  Christie: right?
• 20:23
  Cheryl: Oh, really?
• 20:24
  Cheryl: Oh, and the casual and friendly like you would be with a barista
• 20:28
  Carol: that you hardly know.
• 20:30
  Carol: Except I think that's loving them really well.
• 20:32
  Leslie: Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:33
  Cheryl: To respect them.
• 20:34
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 20:34
  Leslie: I absolutely, I'm thinking, um, the same thing.
• 20:37
  Leslie: I think almost, it kind of triggered something in my brain whenever you were saying the teen years and how hard it is, and, for us, I felt like the early twenties were really hard.
• 20:48
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 20:48
  Leslie: And I think that because we were intentional about, oh, recognizing.
• 20:53
  Leslie: This relationship that we're building while they're at home is gonna continue and talking about everything and having that open, even when we made mistakes and said, okay, that I shouldn't have spoken into that maybe I needed to stay Yeah.
• 21:06
  Leslie: In a different lane.
• 21:07
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 21:07
  Leslie: Or however we spoke about it at that time.
• 21:09
  Leslie: But I think in the early twenties when you don't have them in your house anymore.
• 21:15
  Leslie: You're seeing how well that relationship building has worked.
• 21:20
  Leslie: Hmm.
• 21:20
  Leslie: And I think that's when they're on their own.
• 21:23
  Leslie: And if you've built a relationship where they're gonna come back and they're gonna ask questions, or they're gonna want that interaction and, um, yeah.
• 21:32
  Leslie: And, and, and it was hard because you don't have them all the time.
• 21:35
  Leslie: And so they're trying out, there were times that we didn't talk more than a couple times a month, you know?
• 21:40
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 21:41
  Leslie: At certain periods and.
• 21:42
  Leslie: And I think that not having them there all the time was what makes the difference, why it's hard.
• 21:49
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:49
  Cheryl: But
• 21:49
  Cheryl A: see.
• 21:49
  Cheryl A: I used to think The I didn't change?
• 21:52
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 21:52
  Cheryl: Why does this relationship
• 21:54
  Carol: have to Changed?
• 21:54
  Carol: I love the fact that we could drive in meaningful, we could share all of that.
• 22:00
  Carol: You are so wise to think, oh, don't worry.
• 22:03
  Carol: The groundwork we laid of our relationship will come back But sometimes it's so scary'cause it doesn't feel like it.
• 22:11
  Carol: Yes.
• 22:11
  Carol: When you're used to all of that.
• 22:13
  Carol: Absolutely.
• 22:13
  Carol: And the feedback and that we can just have this comradery of friendship that can go deep and then.
• 22:20
  Carol: Crickets.
• 22:21
  Carol: They don't text you.
• 22:22
  Carol: And I think
• 22:22
  Leslie: that was why it was so hard.
• 22:23
  Cheryl: Oh, so hard.
• 22:24
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:25
  Cheryl: And, and I was just advising someone last week.
• 22:28
  Cheryl: Let them be the gatekeeper.
• 22:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 22:30
  Cheryl: How much you text.
• 22:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:31
  Cheryl: And when they text, don't answer right back.
• 22:34
  Cheryl: Right.
• 22:34
  Cheryl: And don't give a long text and don't add tons of emojis in it.
• 22:38
  Cheryl: They don't want it.
• 22:39
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:39
  Cheryl: That feels.
• 22:41
  Cheryl: Claustrophobic to them.
• 22:42
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:43
  Cheryl: you know you be so
• 22:45
  Carol: openhanded And stay in the very casual lane
• 22:48
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:48
  Christie: Whatever lane they're asking you to be in.
• 22:51
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:51
  Christie: Whether it be explicitly or mm-hmm.
• 22:53
  Christie: You know, subtly.
• 22:55
  Christie: Um, and I think generally speaking, not everyone's like this.
• 22:59
  Christie: And not even everyone in my family is like this, but generally speaking, kids in their twenties are less expressive.
• 23:06
  Christie: Yep.
• 23:06
  Christie: And it doesn't necessarily mean, and this is something I've just discovered in the last year or two, it doesn't mean that they don't feel the same about you.
• 23:15
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:15
  Christie: Like they may still think you have a fantastic relationship and you might not have heard from them more than once this month.
• 23:23
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:23
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:23
  Cheryl: Um.
• 23:24
  Christie: That's been insightful for me, where they're like, oh, we have a great relationship.
• 23:27
  Christie: We're still as close as, and I'm like, really?
• 23:29
  Christie: Because
• 23:30
  Cheryl: successfully
• 23:31
  Christie: symptomatically, I'm not seeing that,
• 23:32
  Cheryl: oh, this is me.
• 23:34
  Cheryl: You know?
• 23:35
  Cheryl: Oh, I didn't know you felt like that Uhhuh.
• 23:37
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:37
  Cheryl: I thought we were back to being casual.
• 23:40
  Cheryl: And that's where you want our relationship forever.
• 23:43
  Christie: Right?
• 23:43
  Christie: You know?
• 23:43
  Christie: And you're, you're their most trusted confidant.
• 23:46
  Christie: You didn't even know it.
• 23:47
  Cheryl: No.
• 23:48
  Cheryl: And you make a casual comment somewhere and you think, well, it just.
• 23:52
  Cheryl: They didn't care, and they come back and they go, oh, wow.
• 23:55
  Cheryl: That meant so much to me.
• 23:56
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:56
  Cheryl: I didn't know you were even listening.
• 23:58
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:59
  Cheryl: You know?
• 23:59
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:00
  Cheryl: So this is a tricky one and that's why I think particularly as they age, that this is so important that parents realize loving them and to keep that relationship, I have got to move to casual and friendly
• 24:15
  Carol: lane
• 24:15
  Cheryl: a lot mm-hmm.
• 24:16
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 24:17
  Cheryl: Um, and I'll even tell you when I did it, well, occasionally, some of mine actually, because they were used to mom always sharing what she thinks and why, and I backed off of that.
• 24:29
  Cheryl: But two particular times with some of mine, I had learned, I'd gotten kind of burned and realized, oh, I'm not supposed to
• 24:39
  Cheryl A: be in that lane.
• 24:41
  Cheryl A: What sometimes if I gave my opinion, even if it was something pretty neutral about a decision they should make.
• 24:47
  Cheryl A: And so I go, well, this is why.
• 24:48
  Cheryl A: And I gave my reason, opinion, like I would give, we would share with the three of us and then it didn't work out.
• 24:55
  Cheryl A: Well, in their immaturity, they used that as an excuse to blame me instead of taking responsibility for their decision.
• 25:03
  Cheryl A: And so that happened several times and I realized, oh, that's where this person is.
• 25:08
  Cheryl A: And so to, so you're,
• 25:10
  Christie: you're saying like when the, the, the advice you gave didn't pan out the way they thought it was going to.
• 25:15
  Cheryl: If you say, do you think we should buy this property?
• 25:17
  Cheryl: And I would, we would process it.
• 25:19
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:19
  Cheryl: And then y'all make your decision.
• 25:20
  Christie: Right.
• 25:20
  Cheryl: And let's say whatever it was, that kind of practical decision, and then, oh mom, you are the one, that's why I bought that car.
• 25:28
  Cheryl: Right?
• 25:28
  Cheryl: That's why I took that class, or that's why I didn't take that job and look what's happened.
• 25:32
  Cheryl: And then they would turn it back on me.
• 25:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:35
  Cheryl: Instead.
• 25:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:36
  Cheryl: Absorbing the responsibility for their decisions
• 25:38
  Christie: or just the circumstances.
• 25:40
  Cheryl: Or the circumstances.
• 25:41
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 25:41
  Cheryl: And so with two of mine, they begging me, mom, please, I really want to know your opinion on this.
• 25:48
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:48
  Cheryl: And, with them, I just said, let me wait, let me think some more about, let me pray some more.
• 25:53
  Cheryl: And they said, boy, your silence is deafening.
• 25:56
  Cheryl: Because I realized.
• 25:59
  Cheryl: I want them to embrace this area themselves.
• 26:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:04
  Cheryl: And if I give my opinion it was too weighted.
• 26:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:07
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:08
  Christie: That's really smart.
• 26:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:09
  Cheryl: Finally, why wasn't I, anyway, so I stayed in the casual friendly lane.
• 26:14
  Cheryl: a lot
• 26:15
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:15
  Christie: Well, it kind of goes back to the phrasing you were saying earlier, Leslie, about, you know, here's what we see.
• 26:21
  Christie: Here's what I, I think.
• 26:23
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:23
  Christie: But the decision is up to you.
• 26:25
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:25
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 26:26
  Christie: Um, I know something I've tried to do in these.
• 26:30
  Christie: Older years is, are you wanting me to speak into this or do you want to just listen?
• 26:36
  Christie: Absolutely.
• 26:36
  Christie: As
• 26:37
  Leslie: they've gotten into their twenties, it's like, okay, do you want my advice or, and sometimes
• 26:41
  Christie: the girls are very clear, no, I just wanna vent.
• 26:44
  Leslie: I just
• 26:44
  Christie: need to talk about
• 26:45
  Leslie: this.
• 26:45
  Leslie: And even with husband and wife, I feel like there's that for sure.
• 26:48
  Leslie: It's like, I don't need you to fix this or help it right now.
• 26:52
  Leslie: I just need you to
• 26:53
  Christie: listen.
• 26:54
  Christie: Listen.
• 26:54
  Cheryl: Yep.
• 26:54
  Cheryl: And that's it.
• 26:55
  Cheryl: That back to 80 20, it probably needs to be 99 1 in this stage.
• 26:59
  Cheryl: that we listen.
• 27:01
  Cheryl: 99%,, yeah.
• 27:03
  Cheryl: And we speak 1%.
• 27:04
  Cheryl: Right..
• 27:04
  Cheryl: And see, one of the things the element of.
• 27:07
  Cheryl: Getting my feelings hurt.
• 27:09
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 27:10
  Cheryl: That they're getting their information from other people and their other friendships.
• 27:14
  Cheryl: And because my identity was wrapped up in our relationship, then I get my feelings hurt and I, and I'm not getting the fruit that I thought I should get, and it doesn't feel the way I thought it should feel.
• 27:26
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 27:27
  Cheryl: So I have to be really mature and loving.
• 27:29
  Cheryl: To stay in the lane I should be in, particularly in their adulthood.
• 27:34
  Christie: Yeah.
• 27:35
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 27:35
  Cheryl: And then when they get really mature, it's a lot easier.
• 27:38
  Cheryl: 'cause I'm also more mature.
• 27:40
  Christie: Right.
• 27:41
  Christie: Yeah.
• 27:42
  Christie: I'm just thinking back at all these different seasons we've just walked through of parenting and the staying in the right lane and assessing what lane that should even be at different phases and um, just, I feel like.
• 27:57
  Christie: What permeates all of these is just this.
• 28:00
  Christie: Lack of understanding that we have a relationship with our kids that Lord willing, is a lifelong relationship.
• 28:07
  Christie: Yes.
• 28:07
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 28:08
  Christie: And it is going to ebb and flow and change.
• 28:10
  Christie: And I just think of myself in each of these phases.
• 28:13
  Christie: I just had this white knuckled grip on every phase.
• 28:17
  Christie: Like this is how it was going to be forever.
• 28:20
  Christie: And if I could just figure it out right now, I would be.
• 28:23
  Christie: Golden for the rest of it.
• 28:25
  Christie: And that's just not true.
• 28:26
  Christie: It's a living organism that we're navigating all of their days.
• 28:29
  Leslie: Excellent.
• 28:30
  Leslie: Multiple living organisms.
• 28:31
  Leslie: Yes.
• 28:32
  Leslie: And yeah.
• 28:32
  Leslie: And the play in that back and forth.
• 28:34
  Leslie: Yes.
• 28:34
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 28:35
  Leslie: I was just, um, thinking about how many times that I think going back to um, lanes.
• 28:42
  Leslie: Because we haven't left there.
• 28:43
  Leslie: Right.
• 28:44
  Leslie: Um, but how many times I think, oh, I'm staying in this lane, but I will dip over real quick and tell you a little bit about that.
• 28:51
  Leslie: You know?
• 28:52
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 28:52
  Leslie: And, and I don't even need to do that.
• 28:54
  Leslie: Some, I don't need to.
• 28:55
  Cheryl: Well, that's dangerous in driving.
• 28:57
  Leslie: Sure.
• 28:57
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 28:58
  Cheryl: That zip, zip, zip is dangerous.
• 28:59
  Cheryl: And, and you know, and what we don't want to leave with,'cause we've got to wrap this up.
• 29:04
  Cheryl: It, I loved your summary.
• 29:05
  Cheryl: I thought that was excellent.
• 29:07
  Cheryl: Huh?
• 29:08
  Cheryl: This is not a lockstep thing.
• 29:11
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 29:11
  Cheryl: Oh, I'm in the friendly
• 29:13
  Carol: lane
• 29:14
  Cheryl: so I can't, or mm-hmm.
• 29:15
  Cheryl: I'm in equipping
• 29:16
  Carol: lane
• 29:17
  Cheryl: that it is this wonderful organic
• 29:20
  Christie: symphony.
• 29:21
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 29:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 29:23
  Cheryl: But that this is a great tool.
• 29:25
  Cheryl: Oh, I realize I'm doing too much of one or the other.
• 29:28
  Cheryl: I need to move into the equipping lane.
• 29:31
  Cheryl: And I just think this is a great tool to use to love others better.
• 29:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 29:35
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 29:35
  Cheryl: You know, a little bit, like we say, healthy boundaries make healthy relationships, and I think healthy lane management makes healthy relationships.
• 29:45
  Christie: Yeah,
• 29:46
  Cheryl: I think it's just a great way where should we be now?
• 29:49
  Cheryl: What.
• 29:50
  Cheryl: Is the very best way I can love you.
• 29:53
  Cheryl: And I think the lanes are an excellent tool.
• 29:56
  Christie: Yeah.
• 29:56
  Cheryl: Good.
• 29:57
  Christie: I'm looking at our little soundboard here that, uh, turns the volume on all of our mics and headsets, and I'm thinking that's how nuanced parenting is.
• 30:07
  Christie: It's a little more of the red dial, a little less of the orange dial, a little more of the green dial.
• 30:12
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 30:12
  Christie: And it's this constant adjustment all the way through year by year, season by.
• 30:17
  Christie: Season of our experiences, their experiences, all very good, the inputs
• 30:23
  Cheryl: and to carry it further again.
• 30:25
  Cheryl: We don't always know until the we're off
• 30:28
  Carol: air, And we're looking back and we listen and Leslie wasn't loud enough at all and Oh, we had Christie so loud and we don't know all the nuances.
• 30:39
  Christie: Right.
• 30:40
  Cheryl: You know, that's just love is fluid and full of nuance.
• 30:43
  Cheryl: And that's where
• 30:44
  Christie: Grace comes
• 30:44
  Cheryl: in it.
• 30:45
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 30:46
  Leslie: Yeah.
• 30:46
  Leslie: And I think, um, the.
• 30:48
  Leslie: The analogy of lanes and recognition is just awareness.
• 30:52
  Leslie: It's that paying attention while you're driving.
• 30:54
  Leslie: Mm.
• 30:54
  Leslie: And it brings light to what's happening.
• 30:56
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 30:56
  Leslie: In, in our own awareness.
• 30:59
  Leslie: Mm-hmm.
• 31:00
  Leslie: Of that awareness of ourself and awareness of where they're at too.
• 31:02
  That's
• 31:03
  Christie: so true.
• 31:04
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 31:05
  Cheryl: Like as always, this conversation's gonna make me a better person.
• 31:09
  Christie: Yeah,
• 31:09
  Cheryl: same.
• 31:09
  Cheryl: Because of what we've just processed here.
• 31:12
  Cheryl: Hey listeners, remember, hang in there.
• 31:14
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Parenting asks a lot of us, and part of the work is simply paying attention to the relationship in front of us.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Sometimes loving our kids means pausing long enough to ask What lane does this moment call for?
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's listening.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's guiding, maybe it's just being present with them.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: None of us stays in the right lane all the time, but paying attention helps us keep the relationship moving in a good direction.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us here today.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: If you'd ever like to reach out, you can find us on our website.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: On social media or at contact@theparentingpodcast.com.