Latest / The Bootleg Kev Podcast / #559 - Chuck D

Transcript

#559 - Chuck D · The Bootleg Kev Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Yo, Chuck, do you right here?
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: You could check me out of Public Enemy on the
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: Bootleg CAV podcast.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: Hey, before we start the episode, we're gonna remind everybody, man,
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: we got one of the biggest radio shows in the country,
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: syndicated in almost one hundred cities all over. Shout out
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: to iHeartRadio. All right, some of the latest cities that
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: we've been able to add. Man, I want to give
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: a shout out to ninety three point nine to beat
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: in Honolulu. That's right, Hawaii, We over there going crazy.
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: I also want to give a shout out Hot ninety
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: eight three and Tucson. Shout out to Tucson going crazy.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Also want to give a shout out to Wild ninety
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: four one in Tampa going crazy. We just got Richmond.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: We also just got the good folks in Bakersfield at
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Hot one O four seven. So we're going crazy on
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: the radio with my partner James Andre Jefferson Junior for
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: the BOOTLEGKEV Show. So make sure you tune in and
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: you can listen anywhere on that iHeart Radio app. That's right,
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: let's get into the interview. Bootleg CAB Podcasts special guest
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: one of the greats. This guy. I mean listen, when
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: I say he's a living legend, I mean that is
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: we got Chuck d Man, one of the most important
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: figures in music history.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm grateful to be invited in your palace.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Look at this man.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Yes, I don't know if it's it's a palace. It's
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: just you know, it's just a hang you know. No, it'sace.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I'm you know, and these are thrones, man, So I'm
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: glad to be invited on it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: You know, we met in the lobby outside. I was like,
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: I actually met you when I was a kid.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: I grew up with Raka Iris Science is a little
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: brother from Dilated. So every time Dilated would come to Arizona,
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: I would go hang out with Rock and Evidence and
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: Baboo and those guys. And they opened up for you
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: on tour Lack Delicious.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Man, it was a nice tour. And really and you
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: said you met me at fourteen.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if I was fourteen.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: It was in that somewhere arranged and I remember Raka
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: introduced me to you, and I was just like, yo,
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: this is because I read your book probably the year
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: prior to that, you know, you used to get dropped
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: off at the library as a kid, and then you
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: just find ship and then it was like yo, Chuck
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: D's got a book.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I've had ten cents. So it's been this
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: incredible full circle. Got a project with Death Jam and
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: here I Am and you know keV spot Man.
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the new album is it's dope because it's like
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: it's got a real theme and uh, you know, you
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: got people kind of like I like I was listening,
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: I ran through it last night. You got some legends
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: checking in, like King T's got a quick like what
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: up on there?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: And then and jag Fu Front and uh, you know
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Damage and you got Daddy Oh and we got Miranda
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: Rights and also people like phielmost Chill and drops from
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: King like you said, King T and school e D
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: and school d Man. So you know, you know what
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: it is radio radio I'm again. It is almost like
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: it's like a radio station full of Paul's Boutigue meets
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: DJ Shadow with Woo Tang hanging outside getting ready to
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: fight security, dypt in acid. It ain't even meant to be,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: like bro, It's like it's not meant to even be
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: like you know, it's crazy.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: It is like there is like a now that you
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: say the DiPT in acid part, like if I was
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: tripping a little, I feel like the album would have
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: been a lot, like really intense.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's like it had no beginning, no end
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: to it, like if you took it and got to
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: a stream of ice.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I'm saying it's the last interview I did.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: If you took it and put it in a shuffle,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: it would make no difference, right, It's like it could
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: pick up and lead it has. Yeah, it has no
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: beginning to end and you know, like you know, like
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: when they had the Lamb and they shave it off
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: for Jiro's Yes, that's why these are not singles that
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: come off with they like like like slices, right, So
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: you know, I mean the whole thing about Radio arm Again.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I got to give props number one too, my guy,
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: my partner, my record label. We were all super independent
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: throughout the years. So the props go out to Sea Doc,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: and Sea Doc is like the Brian Eno of hip
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: hop because he understood. He comes under the tutelage of
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: learning the bomb squad beat changes in sudden left turns,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: and I think his toolbox in twenty twenty five, is
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: now usable and gets through all the legalities, which is
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: the hardest thing to make any of these type of
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: records in a major company is the legalities. And he's
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: figured out that way with today's toolbox. To figure that
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: way of that particular style, you don't really hear a
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: lot of beat changes underneath its.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: M sees no more because you have clearance issues, yes,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: the clearance so your.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Creations and your whole way you pull it from what
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: you create, and all that has to be a different
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: and he's figured I'm telling you in twenty twenty five,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: he's a Brian eno a hip hop and rap music
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: right now because his toolbox is something I think other
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: people are gonna mimic.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Can you Because I've been saying this, I've said this
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: in a bunch of interviews, but I feel like, first
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: of all, the timing for an album right now, just
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: where the world is from Chuck d I feel like
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: the timing is amazing. I feel like we But what
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: I always say is, I don't know. You know, when
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: I was growing up, we had you know, the Mortal technique,
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: and the generation before was public Enemy and and you
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: know there was such thing as conscious hip hop, you knows,
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: and revolutionary hip hop is. And I feel like, you know,
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: there's still some guys doing it, but they're still like
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: I think a Killer Mike, you know, guys like that.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: But Killer Mike's a OG now, you know. But I
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: always say, like, man, it sometimes its a little disheartening
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: because there's not uh, there's not. I don't know where
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: that energy is for the kids these days who are
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: hip hop fans.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Well, they listen with their eyes. They listened with their
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: eyes first. You know, you're probably the last part of
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: the generation that listen with your ears. And that's why
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Enemy Radio which is the which is the particular act
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: that has done radio armageddon. It's like the mc DJ
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: component of Public Enemy. So my my MC style on
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: it is not really conventional. It's almost like the MC
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: that introduces the rapper. Yeah yeah, so I might come
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: off with an orthodox wild you know, Warpe style, but
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: that style is so different in different parts. It's not
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: even meant to be judged because it's going to introduce.
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like your interpolation, would you say of like.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Don cornelis on acid.
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Right, like doing the like the radio DJ in the
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: Chuck D Way, I mean.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and in public Enemy, if that something comes
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: up out of it, it's going to be Chuck d
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Plavor flame like it.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: You know. Like that is so you know, to come
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: on Enemy Radio.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: The first and foremost is the mcs, the rappers, and
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: also the DJs, because there's a few DJs on it,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: like m Rock Our Chicago. He's just like just nasty
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: DJs and sometimes you know, and I'm in right here,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: you know, in Los Angeles, Los Angeles, and like Bootleg
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: cavn on you guys are more DJ centric anyway. Yeah,
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: we are a big DJ town.
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: The beat junkies, mixed Master Mike and you know, the
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: scratch Pickles. I feel like West Coast in general, California.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: We love, we love, we love our turntable lists.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and and this is like a homage to that.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: And also you know, like we've always had great turntable
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: lists and DJs always in our sight.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: But we come from radio, you know.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: So people that that peeled off of us from Terminator X, well,
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: I was able to be with def Jam and do
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: the first compilation albums with the Terminate I produced the
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: first two Terminator X albums and then we had DJ
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Lord with us for twenty years.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: Was now the DJ Cypress Hill the greatest group in
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: the world. Shout out to Cypress Hill. Yeah you be
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: real and Tom. You guys had a cool that's a
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: good four year run.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: He be real, Tom Morello, you know, Brad Wilt, Timmy
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: c and also DJ Lord.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean that was that had to be
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: profits of rage, man, that was that was something that
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: was a ball. Yeah, No, that that was sick. I
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: just remember like hearing about it and when it first
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: got announced, I was like, wait a minute. So it's
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: like Rage against the Machine, but with Chuck d and
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: b Real.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Like and DJ Lord too, it's like the Lord is
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: the one that really capped up because those musicians did
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: not know how to put a turntables into their conversation.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: You know, Brad on drums, Tom on guitar making DJ
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: sounds and also Timmy on bass, the funkiest bass player
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: ever in rock. But DJ Lord is a monster and
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: he can make a turntable sound like a guitar as
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Tom was making a guitar sound a turntable. So Lord
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Lord with them was really a four piece unit as
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: opposed to you know his three guys in a band
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: and three band members and a turntable.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: Can you take me back to when you guys first
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: get with def Jam. You guys are are doing something
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: that nobody had really done before on that level in
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: terms of the subject matter and the and the content
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: that was.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: We was Kevin's just because we were older, that's all.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: But I'm saying like was there because these days it
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: feels like if you talk about certain shit, there's an
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: uphill challenge in terms of whether or not, like maybe
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: the label will be like, hey, maybe shit tone this down.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Did you guys deal with any of that?
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: No, not at all.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: We never dealt with racism coming at us. We never
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: dealt with somebody telling us what to do. Rick Rubin
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: begged me kind of and asked me to do records
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: for two years. So once I agreed, it's a different understanding, right,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. I mean I would turn
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: down calls from Rick Rubin to my house, like I
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: don't want to do records. We wanted to do radio.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: So I'm automatically My first day is not a jubilation.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: It was surrender.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: We couldn't do the radio dreams.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: But you know, fast forward, I have rap Station, which
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: is twelve station app and it apps are hard to make.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: They are.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: That cheap thing and now and not easy to make
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: because you had the world of glitches and you got
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: the realm of security. So we built rap Station, which
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: is twelve station channels all with rap. These of hip
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: hop dedicated for sixteen years now, but the app has
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: been built for five and then to bring the Noise app,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: which is really the really the trend set of there.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Dude. I always wonder like when you have, like like
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: you have a couple of the greatest hip hop albums
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: of all time and under your belt, like when you
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: guys are getting ready to release it takes a nation
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: of millions to.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Hold this back.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: Do you guys understand like how fucking good it is
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: and like how it might change everything?
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have interviews that said I'm making the what's
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: going on in rap music months before we put it right,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: so you got you know, but you know what it is, Kevin,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: you know it was already a leaning tree. I'm ten
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: years older. I didn't studied everything in it. I knew
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: what was coming out. We were really the beginning of
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: the album oriented, you know, rap artists, where it was
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: still a singles media.
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there were still singles vinyls getting released.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, and we knew everything from Iron
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Maiden to Marvin Gangs, so we knew how to make
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: an album. So when I trust me, I'm coming off
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: my first tour year in eighty seven, So by the
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: time we get back in the lamp, I know exactly
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: what to make. Number one, make it faster because on stage,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: you know when you're going to no matter what you're doing,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: you're gonna be amped up to do a song faster
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: than what that recording would be. Right, So I knew,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I say, all right, let's make the recordings faster. So
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: we was at least ten beats fast, ten beats per
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: minuted faster than anybody else. Why I say beats permitted
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: with important because that's DJ cult, that's djhit for sure. Yeah.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: The average person doesn't go by like, oh, this needs
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: to be five beasts for a minute faster and amp.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Up like this.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: You guys were conscient, just like, hey, we're gonna speed
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: our shit up like everybody else is here.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: We're here, yeah, because the difference is is like, how
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: do you, how do you make your stuff different from
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: the next person, faster, louder. Well, if everybody could reach
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: up and be louder at the same time, you know,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: more than one vocalist, you know. So our whole thing
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: was to stand out because you ain't had radio, you
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: ain't have a lot of people like yah, yeah, we're
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: going to make sure we financed this thing forward.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: No, it had to stand on its own two feet.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: You guys also were very instrumental in lending an olive
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: branch to Cube once he left NWA.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nineteen ninety America's most wanted. We toured together eighty
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: eighty seven, eighty eight, and eighty nine, and you know,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: so that's where the friendship started.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then obviously he comes, I mean, the Bomb
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Squad takes the realm of his first solo album, which
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: was a five mic album.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he wanted, he wanted to actually get dre and
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: easy to do it, but the situation with priority at
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: the same time had he had to wait for a
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: year and a half or back in them days, you
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: wait for a year and a half and it's another world,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: a whole other world. So you know, he came to
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: me and wanted to do, you know, us to do it,
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: but no, really he came to me to see what
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: can happen when if he came to East and I
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: try to unite him with Sam Severn and other people.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Like that, what's burn Burn? Hollywood Burn? Was that like
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: made in that same Yeah, yeah, same ere but you're like, yo,
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: we're gonna take this one for.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Us, And that was no, no, no Burn Hollywood Burn
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: was me and Kane already was going to do it,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: and Cuba had just come out this try to look
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: for a studio, try to look for producers or whatever
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: on this project, and he was in the studio at
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: the same time.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: So when me and kin was talking about Cube was
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: like on the count said ya, I want to be
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: on that. Yeah. We both looked at him like yeah,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: not right, And that's how it started.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: The most difficult thing keV at that time is could
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: you get three different record labels to agree on it?
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, back there you have segregation, right and you know, no,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: we don't want them on that label or we don't
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: want that song over there. So I had to do
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of you know, I had to do a
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: lot of godfathering at that time.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: To make that happen.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: That's crazy.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: And it's so crazy too because if you think about
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: like how the Bomb Squad was able to somehow like
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: revolutionize West Coast hip hop in like a way that
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: like they I don't know if they get the credit for.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: We got our credit for. The whole thing is like
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: this is like do the thing and let everybody fly
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: with their own wings. You know, this Bomb Squad never
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: did the same thing twice, right, and we never did
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: two albums in a row on anybody. Once we do,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: you you get it, Boom, you fly like Cube, my
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: favorite Cube albums, Kill that World.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: The next thing he did after so Good Yeah, so
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: one of my favorite covers of all time too, that
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: covers so.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Far, Yeah, because he got it. You know, once we
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: were there had to be like an incubation lab and
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: once you get.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: It killer well didn't have Jack and for Beats on it.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: M m oh yeah of course so good yeah, beat
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: changes and all that under it.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: You know what's crazy. I always think when I like,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: will listen to Jack and for Beats what you said
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: about the labels, I always think back then, like how
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: did clear all these beats? Like you know what I
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: mean like it wasn't like it was a mixtape. Like
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: there wasn't the internet where could just drop a freestyle
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: on YouTube, like he had to put that out.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Well, if anybody could clear anything from independent and labels
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: at that particular time, it would be Brian Turner because
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Brian Turner also released all the rap Masters compilation tapes.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember those, and.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: That took a little bit of clearance to try to
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: get because.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: There was that was back then. There was a lot
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: of compilations that you might go to a gas station
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: and to be like a racket tapes and you'd be
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: like be like, yeah, let me grab this.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: The Swap Meet the Lah you know, Dre was making
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: those those Swap Meet tapes in uh eighty seven, eighty six,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: and eighty eight is the only place where you could
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: find songs because they wasn't on cassette yet. It was
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: you know back then, you know, hip hop was a
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: singles market. They did not you know what I'm saying
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: with singles albums, but you know, if they released the
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: twelve inch, right, the average person, you know be like,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I ain't got no record player, you know, I got
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: a box, I won't play cassettes. The record labels didn't
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: figure that out. So the swap meet DJ's was the
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: first one I remember coming out were playing San Diego.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: They got a swap meet, you know, outside in the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: parking lot, and sure enough got racks of you know tapes.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I still got those tapes to this day, man, and
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: they would have all the hits on it, and that
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: was it. Yo.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: One of my favorite remixes of all time is to
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: shut Him Down remix. I think Pete Rock Rock. I
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: think that's one of the greatest beats ever. Yeah, I
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: love that song. So much of the original is incredible.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Do you remember hearing that for the first time? Like,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: because you guys already had a big record, but it
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: took a like I feel like the Pete Rock version.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Took a little further. Well, you know, this is a
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: difference in Kevin.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: You know, La and New York are two different places,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: and everything in between was different. They wanted that original
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: doom because we performed that when we had the the
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Pete Rock version. How that started? That started real easy.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: The person that Columbia Sony Angela Thomas, was working with
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Pete and she said, Hey, I got a young guy
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: named Peter Phillips and he wants to be able to
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: do a remix, and you know, and I was like, cool,
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: let's go. Let's we ain't got nothing to look. It
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: was the first remix that then we got done that
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Hank allowed, and it was for like the third single
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: and Apocalypse or whatever, So where we could go wrong?
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, where could we go wrong?
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: It's like down the line it's third single, and and Pete,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: you know, not only did you do shut him down,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: he also did our night Train and he did Night
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Train with the with the James Brown get up, get
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: into it and get involved backtracking. So he delivered too.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: And then it was like should he rap on it?
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: I was like yeah, I had them wrap him in
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: cl And that's to me, that's a joyful moment because
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I felt that it also helped them in their career
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: too for a little bit. You know, they already had
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: their Pete Rock and Clsmove then jumping off, but the
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: fact that it was on a pe remix, I think
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: it did stuff for It did justice for cl Smooth
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: as much as it did for Pete Rock, and that
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: did great justice for us as well.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: You kind of kick off this new project kind of
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: saying what rock is, right, Yeah, you and Pe have
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: always had such a synergy with different bands and just
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: the genre in general, whether it's Anthrax or you know,
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: we talked earlier about Rage and all that, Like what
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: do you think it is about the energy that Public
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Enemy and Chucky is always brought to the table musically
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: stylistically that is like always meshed so well with with rock.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Louder, stronger, faster. We're gonna be faster, We're gonna be
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: louder and we're gonna be stronger. I mean it's you know,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: like you do them lyrics at that speed, you're gonna
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: kill over the average person, killing over right, and you
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: know what, And not to get on my high horse,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: but the men I started the Public Enemy, bring the
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: noise pop up on one hundred and nine beasts for
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: a minute.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Hundred you know, and even King doing raw and all that.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: The real yoh man, the.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Real marathon was Anthrax doing bring the noise right because
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: thrash metal at high speeds, yo, man, they take it
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: from here to way higher, you know. And the motto is, Kevin,
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: you do the songs or the songs do you? So
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: it ain't no cop out, so you cut and do
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: it on a song, right, it ain't nothing. Oh I
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: can't do the third verse. I got to stop. It's
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: no parachute man. And that's one thing I always to
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: say about MC's I say, you know what, challenge yourself
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: with speed. Don't think you're going to find a convenient beat,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: because I mean, if you don't challenge your lungs, man,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: you spitting and what you're doing. I mean, it's easy
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: to be in the pocket. I mean my moms could
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: rhyme in the pocket right right, right right.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: But something that really tests you physically.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's a good thing that you know, like
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: leaders of the New School when they trained under us,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: we used to have a run around the track backwards
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: and spit versus.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: It's very difficult to do.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Quite literally, I don't know how to do it today.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, get to go around the track, spit your
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: lyrics running backwards. See where that ends up.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: That's wild. Yeah, that's that would explain you know why
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: one of the greatest performers of all time came out
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: of that's crazy think about.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: And then the other thing is that you could, you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: you would be like you know, chop chop up time. Yeah,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: but chop up time and move it's different. Yeah, it's
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: great to see if you're standing is a master at
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: chop up time? Right, but you're standing still right right right,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Diggie stood still right right right? Punk punk and metal,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: they they they're all over the place.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: I think the only guy who I could think off
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: the top of my head that's newer new guys. Well,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: I guess newers. I was going to say he's not newer,
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: but Tech nine, Tech nine is.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he sees in shape, he's crazy, he's he's taken.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: I know it's a crazy comparison, but Tech nine is
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: taking hardcore. And also what Hammer did have to dancing?
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: Well, no, there's a lot of dancing and textuffy, tons
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: of back man exactly like tons of choreography. Yeah, but
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: it's like, yeah, it's it's crazy text a live show this.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And so a lot of credit isn't given
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: for that.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: Do you feel like there's a lack of quote unquote
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: I guess you could say, like protest music in hip
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: hop in twenty twenty five, you.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: Only know what you know. A lot of people only
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: spit what they know.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: That's fair yeah, you don't know what you know. I
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: also feel like I feel like too.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: It's just like.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: I feel like with I feel like there's gonna be
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: there has to be more coming well, you know, because
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I feel like the world is becoming more and more
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: aware of like certain shit happening all over the planet,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: and I feel like I would hope there are some
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: people we've never.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Heard of inspired right hip know for people spitting what
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: they don't like, but on top of the list is
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: some personal things they don't like, and that that usually
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: clogs up the agenda.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I think the last great protest hip hop song was
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: fuck Donald Trump by YG Yeah classic.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah exactly. I mean.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Those are guys that stuck you know, that's stuck out man,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: And look to me, I feel man, every song got
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: to have a topic.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: The key things that even back in the day that
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: if I said anything the cube I said, just don't
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: repeat yourself twice and don't feel like you got to
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: have a jump up from this person to that person
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: all overnight, gradual build up, so so your fan base
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: can follow you.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Yo, when did you guys? Because when I think of
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: you guys, you are so synonymous with some of my
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: favorite movies of all time. Do the right things up there. Obviously,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: you guys did the he Guy game soundtrack, which I
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: remember buying used from the warehouse. Great album. When did
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: you guys?
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: That's an underrated album, Oh for sure, because I got
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I got ball bars in there, that that Cat.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Stois Ray Allen Man.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: But what what what?
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: What was your guys' initial I guess, uh, the genesis
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: of you and Spike Lee's relationship renaissance people at the
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: time where he was creating film, we would creating music.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Other people were creating other different things, and all in
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: New York City at the time, So we were kind
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: of like brought together by Bill Stephanie and you know
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty nine, and really at the end of
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: nineteen eighty eight then he just finished putting together School
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Days in School Days.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he took Go Go Music with EU and had
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: that highlight and Kadeem Hardison, you know, water Public Enemy
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: sweatshirt in it, and it was about college and something
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: that we and I was familiar with a lot, you know,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: fraternities and stuff like that. I mean, you say fraternities
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: and sororities across White America. They don't know what the
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: hell we talk about, right, But the black life was
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: a whole different universe in there, and we were familiar
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: with that. We used to fight, fight sororities, I mean
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: fraternities too, as well as playing music for them.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: So that was a whole other universe that he tapped in.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: And he said the next thing he was tapped in
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: on the unrest that was going on, inequality that was
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: going on in New York City at the time.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: So when we had a meeting in.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Eighty eight and right before we was going on tour
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: in Europe wud Run dmc, Spike said, I'm putting together
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: this thing with all the stuff that's going on, this
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: inequity going on in New York City. And strangely enough,
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: that movie was spearheaded by the continuity and the connection
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: that that Black Radio did for the city.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: You see Samuel L.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: Jackson, oh Man, Samuel Jackson is the one that ties
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: the whole the whole movie, the whole time.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so Spike.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Said he needed an anthem, and the original thing he
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: wanted us to do was a hip hop version of
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: lift Every Voice and Sing that was quickly rejected, and
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: to fight the power became the thing that came out
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: of that. But who knew Spike was gonna put that
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: song in the movie like fifteen times.
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: It was Yeah, I mean it's it's it's it's kind
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: of like a character in the.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Movie Unprecedented and uh, Spike helped make that that what
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: it was. And yeah, a lot of things on making
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: it and sonically it was a compromising record. It wasn't punk.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: It was like, okay, you know this is this is
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: the music that gets you bumping. I mean certain things
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: set it off. I mean seeing Rosie, you know Perez
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: at the beginning she boxing and dancing.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, you the first time you see a real.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Dance element connected the public enemy who who's more about
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: fighting knocking the head off your shoulder than dancing. So
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that that Spike brought to
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: fight the power that a lot of people don't give
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: him credit for.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: When I every time I watched Do the Right Thing,
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: I'm always like, why didn't Spike act more?
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: He's so good in this movie.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: I feel like that might be is that the only
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: movie like he didn't really.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Do a lot of acting, Like, I mean, they Spiked
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: don't get credit for example, Man Jordan's doesn't take off.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, Jordan doesn't.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Have no personality without commercial unless you had no personality
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: less Spike.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Lee, those commercials brought some yeah, some yeah.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Because all Nike was just like a Nike. Matter of fact,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Nike was less hippo than Adidas because Adidas.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Had running in Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: You know, Nike was like okay, you know, you know,
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: you track, running track, you know, a couple of people
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: playing ball with it. Spike not only bought you know,
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: hip hop into it, he brought Brooklyn into it.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: So I'm from Phoenix, your guys a song by the
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: time I get to Arizona, it was a record that
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: was it was almost like, damn, we're only known and
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: we don't know, we don't have any rappers. We're only
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: known because we were the last state to have MLK Day. Yeah,
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: fucking public enity Beta song about us essentially.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, that was that was a trip too. And
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: when we played with you two in Sun Devil Stadium,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: that went across like oh my goodness. You know, we
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: played just that song, right, and then we didn't play
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: the rest of our set. We protest the wrestler, so
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: that made that. But we wasn't doing things.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that happened to you guys. Yeah, we
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: played Sun Devil only did that one song and then
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: eighty five.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Thousand people up in there and do the fists in
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: the air?
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Did you get the back end?
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Not only did we the only did we put our
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: fists in the air, right, but we hung the Klansmen
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: that night. Yeah, we hung the Clansmen that night. Every
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: show where we did we hung a Klansman at the
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: end of it.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: That's amazing, can we I.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Mean, see, that's the kind of ship we need. I
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: want to see that ship in.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: But listen, you have you have a more homogen.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: I would say homoginized USA, where all the kids are
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: in the same melting pot. But that's everybody's afraid to
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: say say something because.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: They might pist the homie off the homes's parents or
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: No, everybody, you know, everybody's a screen ager, so they're
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: getting their ethics through the phone anyway.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: But they all like minded through the same screens anyway.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: So you find people that they like minded, and they
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: knocked the visual differences off to the side, which is cool.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: What's not cool is that people are learning.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Less about each other's background because there's a lot of
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: dirt in the background on everybody. So they say, we
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: don't teach nothing, we'll start over the twenty first century
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: and go forward. And that ain't cool either, because everything
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: is institutionalized in the history of what made it in
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the first place. So you got to teach history, you
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: got to teach geography. And geography is like, Okay, you
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: was in Phoenix, you wasn't in Tempe, and I mean
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: you wasn't you was You wasn't in Tucson, and some
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: people couldn't connect Tucson. But where you're at. You're in Arizona.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: So where's that you know? You're like what you don't know?
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: It's still the United States, the lower forty eight. But
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: so the United States, I call them USA ors because
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: it's North America, Central America, South America, carect Caribbean. They
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: don't even know where they live. They only know exactly
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: where they might be, but they don't know where they live.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: And the more that we learned about the history of
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: the country, the history of how we all got here
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: as human beings, the history of who've had it before,
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: that they're trying to say, oh yeah, we're going to
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: figure out how to call up ice and de port
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: you on a region of land where indigenous, indigenously you
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: already had some sense of home about the north south
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: central America. It's just weird in twenty twenty five when
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: it comes down to educating the masses, to educate artists.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: To try to say something like where do you start?
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Well, I feel like too, that was what was so
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: great about you, guys, was you were able to learn
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: about things that you might You know, you listen to
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: public Enemy, you're going to take something. If you're in
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: your bubble, you're gonna be forced to step out of
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: your bubble and retain some.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Information that goes along with the songwriter. Too. I do
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: more listening than I did it, more listening and reading
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: than I did talking, like.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: I remember listening to Immortal Technic as a kid and
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: learning about all kind of crazy shit about like the
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: CIA and right fuck like crazy like. I mean, I
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: think a lot of people like obviously generic, you know,
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: people who weren't you know, necessarily like astute. But a
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: lot of a lot of people got introduced to the
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: nation through you guys too.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, popular Culture is a great gateway
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: right for the good, bad and ugly too. You could
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: you could introduce through culture things that make people say, well,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I love culture, and I guess this is the thing
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: that that they say that they love as well. So
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I'm follow that until I hit a brick wall. But
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: culture is good. Culture is to bring that is the
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: thing that you know, brings us together and knocks the
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: differences to the side, right as human beings.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: I feel like too, that's just music. Music is like
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: music is the common space. Music is sports could be
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: you could be at a fucking basketball game, right right.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: We agree we love the Knicks, I not agree on
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: everything else exactly.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: And it also is an age baracud if you know,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: it knocks down the isms you have what racism, sexism,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: now you get agism. All you gotta do is go
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: around and see the lifestyles of people sixty and over
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: and really seventy and over. And there's not a lot
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: of in this country that can you know, save a
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: lot of people from from themselves. And they're in the
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: back spot. And that's one of the things that radio
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: on Agatting addresses too. Somewhere in there, somewhere, Yeah, I've
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: been your agent, and you know you ain't never been mine.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: That's a bar.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well you know I've been never been mine. Yes,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: this is that's just factual mathematics.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing is about it. Like a lot
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: of times, let's say you take an old head un.
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: You know they call me an unk. I think they
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: call you an old head. I don't know. I'm an
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: o G. I saw the breakdown of the age.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, who broke that down?
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: Some kid on TikTok on TikTok. As of right now
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: at thirty eight, I'm an unk.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah you are.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: I'm og because I'm an uncle. People in their forties, yeah,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: you'd be like that. So that's what they you know,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: or even like a person that turned fifty. I turned
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: fifty fifteen years ago, so I'm like, so they still
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: gonna call me unk, and then you gotta revere. You
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: got to own that too, because you know. But the
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: thing about it, here's a misnomer. If he's sharp, and
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: you have your senses and you're not brain fogged by
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: by whatever happened during COVID.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: You already seen what happened.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: I've seen mc in since nineteen seventy six, so I'm
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: seeing it in twenty twenty five at real time.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: So when somebody said, oh, man, you don't know what
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: this is, I said, I see it, I hear it,
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: I feel it. But I'm comparing it. I'm comparing it
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: to the first time I heard him saying, you know
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: what fifty years Yeah. Yeah, So my timeline. What you're
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: trying to tell me is that I can't make a
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: compare the analysis when I've seen both, but you only
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: see one, or your timeline of comparison might be Okay,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: I started to check this out in nineteen ninety six,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: So that's your timeline in real time. Anything before that
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: you got to go into YouTube and all the other
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: stuff that doesn't give you a good you know exactly anything.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: But I'll tell you another thing. Like I said the
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: last interview, you grew up in Phoenix. You've seen some
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: spots in LA over the years. Do you ever go
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: in the area that's rebuilting new buildings or whatever?
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you ever still see the old buildings while
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: you're looking at the new buildings?
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: Sometimes?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: But mostly, but when you see the new building.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Oh oh, you're when I'm looking at the new building.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you see the old buildings the same time.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: That just happened to me.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: That's your third die in your back eye.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that literally just happened to me.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: A young head ain't got that. Matter of fact, sometimes
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: you even see people who ain't here no more, right,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: that's fair. Yeah, So you can't really.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Process this in anything when you come down to evaluations.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: It's not like you're stuck in the day. You see
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: both of them at the same time. Oh, yeah, of
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: the church that used to be right there, you see
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: that church right and you see the new building. Those
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: comparative analysis a young head can't make.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like, yeah, there's just certain I feel
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: like hip hop's an interesting space where there's a lot
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: of people who aren't necessarily fans of hip hop. They
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: have a voice in You got.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Casuals everywhere though, Yeah, but oh you mean the ones in.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Charge not even necessarily in that too. But also just
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: like when it comes to like some of the commentary
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: that is bigger, it's from people who aren't even like
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: really hip hop fans.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: They're like, but they can't tell you what they are
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: fans of anyway.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, like me, you know, I like who I like, like,
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: for example, I grew up with Rolling Stones, Lan Zeppelin,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: who beatles right, But then there's another category R EO Speedwagon,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Foreigner sticks.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: They take care of that thing too, you know, the eighties,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: And I just barely, like, in the last five six years,
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: have gotten very appreciative of hain't that trip some of
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: that like seventies eighties rock shit.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Me too, I mean, and I grew up alongside of it.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: Some mushrooms and I threw on the fucking one of
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: these nights by the Eagles, and I was like, right,
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: like you was like, YO.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: For real, thorough raise thorough for sure.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, man, but within your record kind of saw YO
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: as a statesman of hip hop, as one of the
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: guys who built this shit. What was your just fan perspective,
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: Chuck D perspective on Kendrick Lamar and Drake and just
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Kendrick's last twelve months. It's been pretty crazy and the
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: halftime show, your boy Samuel L. Jackson is an amazing guy.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: I thought that was a wonderful introduction to rap, but
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: it was you know, a lot of thinking rap music
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: and hip hop is top heavy. You know, when I
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: look at your walls, I see I see, I see
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: top middle and also start up coming in the bottom.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: If you're going to come on, man, if you're going
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: to be like a ball fan of NBA, it's not
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: all about Kobe and Jordan.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: It's like could be like somebody who's like the sixth
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Landry Shammitt. You know what I'm saying. Like, if you don't,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: you got to appreciate, uh, you know, thoroughness in it.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: And you appreciate Derek Fisher too, exactly so.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: And so the wide body aspect of hip hop and
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: rap I'm into when it comes down to like, oh yeah,
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: they you know it's Drake and Kendrick. I'm like, that's
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: casual talk, right, yeah, the casuals. It's like like I
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: talked to people, I'm a Nick fan, man, They're like,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, well I like I like, yeah, I like Brunson.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, And it's not who else is on the Knicks. Well,
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: you know the guys that's with Brunson, right, Okay.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: What's the guy? The cat guy Cat?
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: All the conversations you have with your mom, Man.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: How did you watch last night's game?
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Come on, man, I got scars all over my body today.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: But you know what listen, I just I have to
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: do thirty eight when you saw this, you thirty eight?
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: How old are the How old are the players?
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Uh, there're probably ten years more.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: So they experience a level that they they haven't experienced before.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: All those guys on both teams for sure.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for you know, you let young guys do their
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: thing until they figure it out.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was definite.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: They was if they already should have been knowing about
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: that level, they'd be forty five years old, but their
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: body wouldn't be able to work. Like so, every time
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: I watch sports, I said, you know, god, you know,
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: don't make that Pass't no better than that. I checked myself.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what, this the first Eastern Conference finals.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: He twenty four years old?
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Yo, man?
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: Let young be young man. Yeah, it was definitely, it was.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: It just it was some ninety shit for me to
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: see those two teams against each other, because you remember
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: back in the day, you would when it was like
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: it was always the Knicks and Heat or the Knicks
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: and Pacers.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Those our enemies. Man, we beat the Celtics. The Celtics
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: ain't never been the Knicks enemy.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: Now it was the Heat, yeah, and the Pacers The
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Celtics have always been big bro Nicks little bro and
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: every time the Celtics will win.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: As I'm telling you, back in the fifties, we we
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: we we we we were losers. Yeah.
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: I feel like in the nineties the Celtics were losers
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: and the Knicks.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: So that's been the Knicks, that's been the Celtics, enemies
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: of the Lakers and also the Philadelphia seventy sixes. Those
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: are you know what I'm saying, That's where that can
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Nick's heat paces. I got to play in Boston two
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: days from now, so I was on Twitter X or
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: whatever the hell they want to call it, and I'm
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I'm a little I'm a rowdy as a texting fan.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Of course, I'm like, beat them asses, And people are like,
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: oh my god, Chuck D said that, Oh my god,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: you they all vertebrate hurt. And I'm like, no, this
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: ain't me. But but during the game this you look,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: he ain't sitting.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Next to me. Yeah.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: I feel like there's like I always tell people, there's
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: like sports hate, which isn't real hate, but it's like
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: I could say, like I hate a player, but.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I hate paces and I hate the heat right
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: and here's the crazy thing about it, keV. I got
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: fans in Miami, and I got fans in the Indian
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: African for sure. But I said, this is this Saint
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Chuck d. This is Chuck a fan of the New
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: York Knicks, and I hate y'all asses.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: I think if y'all get through this, I think I
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: think there's a good chance. I feel like, I feel
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: like you guys matchup well against the Thunder. I'm assuming
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: the Thunder went already.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Game by game. I hope we we it was game one.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Man only young heads is like, oh my god, well
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: we you know, like you know, like in New York,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: you know, outside the garden, this is Gooden Central Station.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Man, for sure.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: You know anybody it's like, oh, they should walk around
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: with Indiana paces Jersey outside that guard.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't know.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: One of my uh favorite moments at the iHeart Festival
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: over the last few years was you you guys doing
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: the iHeart Festival, because iHeart festivals. Like I remember when
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: we saw the lineup, I was like, oh, because usually
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: I'm backstage running around drinking. I was like, oh no.
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Me and Doc Winner we watched while eating mushrooms, watched
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: you guys, fucking kill that show.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: That was running around, but it was real show and yeah,
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: yeah it was a good, like shiny experience.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was definitely. It's always a shiny your experience.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: It's like it's like hanging out at a commercial and
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: doing doing a life. Yeah it's a TV show.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: And let me tell you doing public getemy so you
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: got you gotta go through training and that was one
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: of those shows that like, it ain't training, it's just
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: like kind of doing it with a little bit of
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: warm up.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: But you know the regular tour thing you got trained
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: for sure, you guys.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: And you know you mentioned the public enemy logo, whether
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: it's people wearing the shirt, whether I mean I got
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: public going to be Vans. The licensing game for public
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: enemies got to be crazy, like do you are you?
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: Are you? I used to be on top of it,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: and is it turned into its own things?
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Pop used to have merchandise tool, merchandise company. Now it's
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: just like out of our hands. So it has its
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: own thing that you get checked up on. But my
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: whole thing is like I had to get with a
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: bigger situation because every time I see someone with it,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: I am a and Navana and they like are twelve
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: and eleven years old and for.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Sure and wearing a Beatles shirt.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: I get competitive, man, I'm like, damn man, Yeah, you know,
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: how do we get up in those ranks?
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: It's Target.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: It's just Target, Yeah, because Target's got the sick shirts
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: for like eleven bucks. Yeah, and you'll be in there
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: be like damn Tar got a Woot tank shirt.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, I'll take that.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: What keeps you so inspired in just like you you
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: feel like you still got the battery in your back
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: to compete to work at your age man.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Like number one, I've been doing the radio show every
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: week for sixteen years in a row. So I see,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: I see everything come through it through me. I curate
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: at least as many. It's five hundred thousand saungs and artists,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: no matter what else they come from, whether it's the Drakes,
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: down to the brother Ali's down to like, you.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: Know, shout to brother Manhred just here.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: My brother brother, and you know, down to anybody. So yeah,
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: I'm in the game, you know. And the game is
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: sharpened by the radio shows, rap station, the apps.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I've built.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: The Spit Slam record label with my partner Sea Doc,
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: you know, put together the radio Armageddon, and there's always
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: you know, hip hop gods or a man flat Line,
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: which is basically classic artists and you know, been doing
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: it for over twenty years, that's the category we call it,
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: and a station and the show that he has, he's
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: been doing it. So my whole fight is to make
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: sure that they get known for all the work they
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: put in all these years. It ain't about me, It's
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: about damn. You know. Can I make Sea Doc like
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: really beat Damn? At least somebody that could say, yo,
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: he's in the top twenty five or flat Line. He's
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: been doing his shows from up from Seattle, you know
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: for the last thirty years and for the last sixteen
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: years on rap station.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Damn? Could I get him notoriety? Right?
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Or?
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: Do you know?
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: The only ones that get notoriety is you know, here's
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: a big corporation. They're gonna flood it with money and
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: promotion and you know, and that's how you get big.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: So if they don't get big, I'm a failure.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: Yo, do you did you see? Because there's so many,
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: so many of my homies who got hip to you
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: guys because of Tony Hawk's pro skater.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Tony Hawk.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: And before that like Bring the Noise was like I
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: felt like like anytime you play Tony Hawk, that song
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: is getting played.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Tony Hawk's a big uh, a big.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: It was like that and B Boy document that all
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, like little white kids all over the
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: country didn't know they were becoming like backpack fans because
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: they're like listening to most stef and P and shit.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: You know, A's a trip to it. He's a great
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: fan and peer, you know, Tony Hawk and the whole thing.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: And before that was the grand Theft Auto thing. Yeah.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: When I was I think I was a DJ. I
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: don't play video games. I couldn't tell you A from
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: B from anything, but I get the feedback. You know
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying. I'm not a skater because I'm from
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: the seventies. I'm a roller skater. So at back in
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: the seventies, we danced, right and you want to get
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: the girls roller skating or dance on the floor.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: Dancing is no longer an element in today's music.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: It sure isn't. I'll tell you that. Look, you know
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: friends that get married, Yeah, there's dancing at weddings still.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: But not between the dudes. A lot of the times
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: you see the ladies dancing together. Yeah, I feel like
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: even the dudes is on the wall.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: You know, do drink on and sure you dudes don't
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: dance anymore. They're too cool.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: The mean back in the day, they was cool too.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: But my job as the DJ is to yell at
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: them and get them off the wall, right right. You
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: also la culture to us all how to dance too,
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: because you had soul trained. Soul Train taught all of
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: us like get off the wall and get down and
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: big up to Don Cornelis because that was right here
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: in town. And for years you wasn't a big black
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: act until you went to Soul Train.
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: If you had to pick one of your babies, it
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: takes a nation or fear of a black planet.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Which album you followed? Baseball, Yes, loosely.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: That's like Roger Morris's season and then the next year
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: he had fifty four, So it's like one's an upper
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: deck shot. The other one is like a line drive shot.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: So those are two home runs that I don't think.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think I could cook all betyet and pitches.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: One is a fastball one hundred and twenty miles an hour,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: others all Break a split Finger.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: That to Oh my God, you need them both, Yeah,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: you need them both.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: So my favorite, crazy enough, my favorite record that I
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: liked over the last in this century was what Gary
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: g Wiz produced called Man Plans God Lasts. Okay, the
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: whole album is twenty nine minutes, and the whole goal
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: to do the album was if we could do eight
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: to nine cut or ten cuts under two minutes, that's
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: just to do bro. But but the way he put
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: his foot into it to That record came out twenty
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: fifteen and we performed quite a bit on it.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: You know, it was awesome.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: You are in one of the greatest groups of all time.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: If you had to put your guys's yourself in the
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Mount Rushmore, who's on the Mount Rushmore of rap groups
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: with you? There's three more spots if you had to
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: pick three, maybe your personal taste groups of just rap Roop.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Cypress Hill, Okay, Run, dmc WU, Tang Clan. And
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to count duos because you know, you
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: get in the outcasts.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because you get into the duo Space Mob, Deep Run,
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: the Jewels of the Duo.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, duo, so their groups, but in that
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: you know, right, and you got to put e gm
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: D like at the top of those duos, the duos
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: American paris just amazing. But I'll say, like when you
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: got the full dimension d D, j MC's other things
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: like Cypress Hill, rou Tang Run DMC.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Personally, Houdini.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Doesn't get there. They're underappreciated when we talk about that.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: For sure.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Houdini obliterated the eighties and performance and records and crossed
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: over in the areas you know. So yeah, and to me,
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: I'm a person that's missed groups, you know, I missed groups,
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: uh dilated people's as a group and then somebody you
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: travel with although it was two people, but it was
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: also DJ.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: Was very instrumental in their live show and it cuts.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a group, you know what I'm saying.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: And yeah, not to say epm D didn't have scratched also,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: so you get in the vague areas like that, but.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: Was like an official. He had his own records on
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: the on the album.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that the West Coast held on the
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: groups a little bit more before they went into corporation,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: saying well, we're only going to sign the solo act.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: J five was dope, drastic.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, J five, I mean big up to
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: I do hiro Oh.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: So I do graphic illustrations, So I've released seven illustrated books.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: But so I know people who are artists in the
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: hip hop fields. So people like Charlie Charlie Tuna and one.
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: Of the best voices, oh my god, in tones in
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: hip hop history is Charlie Tuneman. Yeah, and then went
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: on to have it. He's in another great group.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Which is fucking exactly crazy.
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, crazy, Charlie Tuna slept on that. And that dude
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: is huge. I remember I met him as a kid.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: I was like, he's a tall dude.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Man, his voice matchress.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: My voice doesn't match me.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: People used to say, Man, I thought somebody's gonna come
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: in here, like six foot five, three hundred pounds is like, uh,
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: kars one, who's the most devastating greatest of all time
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: rappers goat with plus and some it's a dude that
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: you know, just like he's the only MC I know
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: that come in the room and change the MC complexion
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: of the room because he could come in and he
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: does this too, Yo, who MC's here and nobody wants
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: to say to the MC.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, dude, I mean I remember when he was doing
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: the Temple of Hip Hop shit when I was a
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: kid and I got to go see him live, like
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: it was like watching Like, yeah, it was crazy seeing
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: kiris one for the first time.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: I was like another one stamina wires, which is important
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: as that.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: You guys toured together too in quite a few times.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as a as a young guy and as an
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: older person. You know, then you got n w A
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, which is a super group before wu Jang.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Then he got the roots.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, the roots. He had the roots. Yeah, and then
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: the roots too, like over time was more than just
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: black thought. As an MC, dice were always in there
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: and the group like yeah, the roots, honestly, the roots.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: The roots is in that conversation man.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Well you know, then the roots come out of what
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: the first hip hop bands, that's the Sonic.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Then you did your underground, Yeah, Tupac comes.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: Out of that, Yeah, sex packet, and then you know,
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: and you got the.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Roots was the third man manifestation out of that.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: And then you had groups that came up that didn't
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: get to support, like the Goats got dope.
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like, uh, there was a lot of
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: like nineties rap groups that, like you said, like didn't
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: necessarily that like if you knew you knew type like
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: even like D I T. C.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, yeah, because they had they had a
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: whole c of mcs that was able to get on
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Diamond's work and just I mean like people like O.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: C O.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Giant Man.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: You know, it's crazy. Why do you think the group
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: died in hip hop and N R and B Because
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: I always had this conversation with R and B two
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: because it's.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Like easier when I was easier for to negotiate with
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: one person. See.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: The problem is also when it came to Black Acts,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: destroy the group, take the solo member and you know
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: so so so we're afraid of not only this renegotiation,
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: but read negro negotiation and reading negotiation.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: That's the ship that they throw at Black Acts.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because if you think back, you know, bust the
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: rhymes went solo. There's a bunch of the.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Last thing they wanted is like eight people yelling in
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: the office, Like they said, now we could just take
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: one person and negotiate with that one person their lawyer.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Oh you need a lawyer, by the way my brother.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: So they would, they would, they would mob up on
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: the on the.
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: They would Yeah, it's crazy because that still happens where
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: management or the label will recommend you a lawyer.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: So they mobbed up telling you to go solo right
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: as opposed that they mobbed up and you mobbed up, right,
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Ain't that's something right?
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I see?
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: You know, you've always had a big voice when it
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: comes to just like anything anything, sports, politics, et cetera.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: What is your thoughts just done? Like, you know, just
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: everything that's happening in the world right now, we got
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: you know, gods of shit is super sad what's happening
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: over there. And it feels like every day there's some
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: new wild shit that Trump's doing where you're like, what.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Whippings of mass distraction to get everybody to be phyxiated
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: on bread and circuses as they continue to do the dirt.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's very easy to detach the United
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: States of American mind away from the world. People already
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: ain't trying to look at the world as the world.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: They try to look at, you know, their own county
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: and state as that, and they don't want to go
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: any further. Just like ask at the normal California. How
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: much of California did they see?
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: That's true. You got people in laws have never been
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: to bakers Field.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Like, what the hello, Doug, I've been a Bakersfield you Yeah,
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: there you go.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: But you did work in Bakersfield, right.
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: I've been to Bakersfield. I'm on the radio in Bakersfield.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: I've been there enough times in my life where I'm like,
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: I've seen it. Okay, Insne to ben to Fresno. Actually
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: like Presnel tad.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: Bit Moore than a little bigger, little bigger, a little.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: Bigger, little bigger. They get the college shut to the bulldogs.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: Well, my thing is like people in the United States
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: of America don't venture out to the United America for sure.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: And when it comes down to it, we'll talk politically.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: This country's run by counties. So when they talk about police,
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: you know, to be a qualified police where you have
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: to negotiate with human beings and people in Los Angeles
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: or urban quarter called urban areas where a lot of
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: melting pots goes on, you might not have to do
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: it in a county where it's sports and all of
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: a sudden, not only you are the the cop, but
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: you the sheriff in town because eighty six people voted
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: for you, and you get a chance to wear a gun,
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: a badge and drive around in a tank.
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: It's crazy because I can assume that you're to the
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: point in your career where you've had interactions with police
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: that are fans of you.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've never had conflict with any police ever
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: in my life. But and I was cat when I
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: was going to college. I had to walk to it.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: I had to walk through a white, posh town.
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: But so did the cops ever fuck with you guys
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: because of you know, nine one one as a joke
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: or some of these records. Did they ever give you
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: any shit?
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Nah? Nah?
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: Anyway, listen, the Nation Islam, right, and I work with
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: the Nation pop is in the Nation of Islam.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Number one, they teach you, number.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: One, to conduct yourself civilized, so no matter where you are,
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: your language will save you half the time. You Also,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: the Nation Islam teaches its people to know the law
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: wherever you live. You only fight the law when you
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: know the law. You know it's unjust, and you know
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: the best way to fight the law is collectively with
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: an organized plan, because the law nine times out of
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: ten might be against you, you'll stop by police. There's
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: a language and there's a behavior to untwist you out
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: of that situation that you govern. They don't govern you,
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: they work for you. You, but you gotta have the
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: language to make them understand that at jump the minute
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: that if a cop come and pull you aside, and
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: they already got and you know, a police pulling you over,
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: the number one mission is to get home, right, So,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: and we know we got some asshole police out there,
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: especially you go through like a boondock, you know, county.
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: And they're just bored.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Huh yeah, yeah, So you gotta.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: Go there and figure out like, all right, this dude, man,
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: it's like, let me untwist it. Even on a bad day,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: figure out how to get on out and keep it moving,
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: get up out of there. But you know, you were
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: taught how to govern your language, how to govern, govern
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: your human being. And even then you gonna run into
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: some cracker situation that might be adversarial, but then you know,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: collectively you could figure out the language that that would
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: move you on. I remember, like not too long ago
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: in this state where I live here, I'm driving and
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: my pops back in the day, but probably passed at
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. He will always say, Chuck, you better stop
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: at signs this whole get to the sign and roll.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: Through right, kind of slowly roll through, no complete stop tip.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, my pop tell me this all the time. Now,
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I don't drive fast, right, so I'm up.
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: But none of us really are coming to a complete stop.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: We should I know, I know, but then you know,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: the more you do it, then you get more relaxed
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: and type of thing, you know. So sure enough, I
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: get to stop sign. I kind of didn't go through
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: cop right there right in the street. So I immediately
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: pulled to the side immediately, like I start laughing, right,
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: and he comes up to me, you know, seeing me
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: laughing right, He started laughing right, and I like, yeah,
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: my pops man was telling me about it.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: He said, yeah, you should listen to your pops already. There.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: I diffuse the air, right, you know what I'm saying.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: So, so as a man, you're taught to sometimes say
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: when you air my bad, even in sports, it's like
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: I threw the bad past, but at the same time
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: you didn't catch it.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: You gotta sometimes say, you know what, I threw it wrong?
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: My bad? You know you learn that from sports.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: In society, men teach their sons the language because basically,
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: if you especially if you're black or a person of color,
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: you want to be an adversarial situation, your language will
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: save you.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Your language will save you from getting a fight that
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: you can't handle.
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: I feel like too, that's why, like the nation is
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: so dangerous to the establishment.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because they never talked about going around with guns.
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: Their whole policy is like the listen, their minds have
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: to be developed. Yeah, yeah, okay, Yeah, there's situations there
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: where where adversary is guns, even a gun happy nation.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Guns everywhere.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: But can you imagine if it was known for to
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: be an organization with guns, they would have used the
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: same cotel practice that they attempted to wipe out.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's interesting, Like I mean, in.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: This state, the Panthers used a policy of the right
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: to bear arms as intellectuals in this state, and immediately
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: crack of tactics was about rubbing them.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: Out because they they US law, use the law, and
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: it was like, nigga, you got the nerve.
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: I always find it interesting. You know, I was talking
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: to my boy. I don't know if you've heard the
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: nineteen Keys. He's incredible. But we're just kind of talking
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: a bit about why there's less taught about Elijah Muhammad
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: than there is about other figures throughout history. And it's
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: like it's that's like almost like purposeful by these you know,
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: whoever's writing the fucking textbooks. Well, yeah, and you're not
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: going to learn much about the Black Panthers if you
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: go to school outside of like a little paragraph.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: And before we used to rely on family being able
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: to transfer information down. Since everything comes to the screen,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: is expected that they're going to intentionally miss some things.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: So I always liking that there's no competition in the
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: great leadership of people in the past before great leaders
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: those are tools in the box. They're like, well, what
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: do you think about Malcolm X, you know, versus Doctor King?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: I said, it is not a Drake, It's not a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: Drake and Kendrick battle and every little thing.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: It's like, it's not that.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Malcolm is a tool of learning.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: Is he used the phillips head and doctor King was
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: a flathead screwdriver, you know what I'm saying his tools.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: Doctor King came a little bit closer to the phillips
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: head before he passed you know.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know that's how you use your tools, and.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Giants from our past are tools to actually make you
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: understand how to get forward in your current and in
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: the future, to be able to teach a little bit
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: I know you do the radio show. I feel like
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: you could also. I mean, I saw so many artists
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: are doing amazing podcasts, but I feel like you could
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: do a podcast and that would just have conversations that
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: nobody else has happened right now. Is that something you
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: can consider doing At the time, you ain't got the time.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: That's two or three hours a week.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: And yeah, at the time, I don't have the brain
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: space for it. I'd rather create the technology. I tell people,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: I say, you know what, rather than being on the show,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: get my app.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: Get my app and put your show on your show
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: on it.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: I love it, Miliari.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: All right, So the album is out, Everyone go go
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: run it up.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: It's dope.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: A lot of the artists on there hadn't heard of
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: so it was dope to discover some new talent on
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: it that I hadn't been.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Here to homage, to homage, just to say to the
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: MC and the DJ, and that's the radio. It's the
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: radio enemy. Radio is the dj MC component of Public Enemy.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Matter of fact, it is actually now the component that
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: actually is the backdrop of our concerts now is DJ
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Johnny Juice joh Heath from the Bay Area. On the
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: other turntable and t Bone the drummer from it used
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: to be our band element.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: How many I know you guys are always doing shows,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: so that they's no not always doing show.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: We just pick it, pick and choose, especially a sixty
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: five bro. Oh yeah, pick and choose. Man, you got listen.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: Why are you all over the place instead of worrying
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: about the quality of your life?
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Right? I tell people say, it's not what you accumulate,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: it is what you do with what you have. I
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: like that in my art studio is.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: Ten by ten, thirty five hundred dollars from lows.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: That's all you need.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: And inside that art studio ten by ten by ten,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: space magic happens.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: Would you guys ever do a new pe album?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Wait for surprises? Okay, you'll be first enough.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: I feel like all the ogs are putting out amazing.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 3: The new ice Q album was fire. There's there's a
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: lot of there's just a lot of good, good music
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: being put out by OG's right now, so including yourself. Man,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: go get the album.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: Chuck.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: I appreciate your time. We could have done this for
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: a much longer time.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: But oh I'm glad to catch up with you since
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: you were fourteen.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, Man, thank you for everything. Man, you
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: haven't changed my life for real, So thank you for that.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: Bro, like hey man, to be to be a OG
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: and to get that, I just say, I get it
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: all the time, and it's immeasurable as opposed to like, dude, Man,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: it's like I'm in jail because of you.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: I don't have none of that.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: So yeah, there are artists where you're like yo, man,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: like yeah, and you care the character and I love
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: some of that music too, for sure. Yeah for sure, Chuck,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: appreciate you, bro, Yes, Sir Boom