Latest / The Money Puzzle / Should you put your extra dollars in super or the family home

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Should you put your extra dollars in super or the family home · The Money Puzzle

0:10
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm
0:13
Speaker 1: James Kirby. Welcome aboard everybody. I want to put one big,
0:17
Speaker 1: fat question to you today. Should you put money in
0:20
Speaker 1: super or should you put that money towards buying your
0:24
Speaker 1: own home? And it doesn't matter what stage you are.
0:27
Speaker 1: You might be buying your first home, you may have
0:30
Speaker 1: a mortgage for eighteen years. The question is core to
0:35
Speaker 1: wealth building in Australia and the answer I expect you
0:39
Speaker 1: will find is embedded not in actual rational deduction as
0:43
Speaker 1: you might guess from economics or whatever. It's actually got
0:46
Speaker 1: an awful lot to do with the tax system and
0:49
Speaker 1: how that actually works. My guest today is James Gerard
0:53
Speaker 1: of Financial Advisor dot com dot au. We often talk
0:56
Speaker 1: about this issue. I can't remember where you come from
0:59
Speaker 1: on this issue, games, but it's nice to talk about
1:01
Speaker 1: it on air to get the listeners basically to come
1:03
Speaker 1: in on this.
1:04
Speaker 2: How are you Yeah, I'm doing really well and looking
1:06
Speaker 2: forward to our bus discussion today.
1:08
Speaker 3: It's a really interesting topic.
1:10
Speaker 1: It's an interesting topic because the truth of the matter
1:13
Speaker 1: is that houses. I'm looking at a graph and it's
1:16
Speaker 1: from AMP. Interestingly, AMP We had AMP guests only a
1:20
Speaker 1: few weeks ago, where we talked about their long term approach,
1:25
Speaker 1: how people should retire a little bit older than they
1:28
Speaker 1: are at the moment, how people should have higher risk
1:30
Speaker 1: in their portfolios than they should have. But one thing
1:32
Speaker 1: that didn't come up was an AMP graphich goes back
1:35
Speaker 1: to nineteen twenty eight and it shows that residential property
1:39
Speaker 1: in Australia is outstanding. It basically runs at about eleven percent.
1:43
Speaker 1: If you go back to nineteen twenty six, shares go
1:46
Speaker 1: back almost similarly about eleven percent, bonds do about six,
1:50
Speaker 1: and cash does about five. So let's say, let's put
1:53
Speaker 1: it out there. First of all that shares more or
1:55
Speaker 1: less return the same amount as a residential property over
1:58
Speaker 1: a very long period of time, but also the homes
2:03
Speaker 1: that underpin our system. You might just explain to listeners,
2:07
Speaker 1: first of all, well before we have this conversation, the
2:11
Speaker 1: tax advantages of both assets. Right, So, if I don't
2:14
Speaker 1: know anything about super or houses or home ownership, and
2:17
Speaker 1: I'm trying to make a decision here, what's the tax
2:20
Speaker 1: deal on super very simply? And what's the tax deal
2:23
Speaker 1: on owning at home? Very simply? Just a headline issue.
2:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a nutshell, the biggest attraction to supernuation is
2:30
Speaker 2: that after you've reached the age of sixty and after
2:32
Speaker 2: you stop working up to two million dollars which will
2:35
Speaker 2: increase the two point one million dollars shortly, you can
2:38
Speaker 2: have tax free super, so no capital gains tax, no
2:42
Speaker 2: income tax. Superannuation is the most tax effective structure up
2:45
Speaker 2: to two million dollars for people to hold their wealth
2:48
Speaker 2: in retirement. So that's the basic attraction of superinnuation and
2:53
Speaker 2: the government encouraged this because they don't want to pay
2:55
Speaker 2: the age pension every fortnite to millions of Australians.
2:57
Speaker 3: They want people to be self funded.
2:59
Speaker 2: So what they do is they say, for you to
3:02
Speaker 2: not rely on us in retirement, we'll give you these
3:04
Speaker 2: tax concessions to help you build your superannuation account. So
3:08
Speaker 2: every year people have the ability to put it in
3:10
Speaker 2: up to thirty thousand dollars into their super account and
3:13
Speaker 2: that's called concessional contribution.
3:15
Speaker 3: That's pre tax.
3:17
Speaker 2: You need to enclound include your employer contribution which is
3:20
Speaker 2: twelve percent of your salary, and then you some people
3:22
Speaker 2: have a voluntary noil that they can put it in,
3:24
Speaker 2: so there's tax breaks to do that. So the government
3:27
Speaker 2: will help you with tax breaks put money into SUPER.
3:30
Speaker 2: They'll also give you allows as well. If you've sold
3:32
Speaker 2: an investment property or you have an inheritance, you can
3:35
Speaker 2: put it in up to one hundred and twenty thousand
3:36
Speaker 2: dollars a year and in some cases up to three
3:39
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty thousand as well. So in short, SUPER
3:42
Speaker 2: is tax free in retirement and the government will give
3:44
Speaker 2: you tax breaks along the way.
3:46
Speaker 3: To help you build your superbalance.
3:47
Speaker 1: Okay, and so the thinking of this was that reduced
3:51
Speaker 1: a number of people on the pension on that dependent
3:55
Speaker 1: of that. Now, on homes, what's the big what's the
4:00
Speaker 1: tax deal on home ownership?
4:03
Speaker 2: The great thing in Australia about owning your own home
4:07
Speaker 2: is that there's no capital gains tax. If you were
4:10
Speaker 2: lucky enough to have bought it your home back in
4:12
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighties for twenty thirty forty thousand dollars and
4:16
Speaker 2: it's worth two million dollars today. If you decide to downsize, upsize,
4:20
Speaker 2: do whatever you want, sell the property, there's not a
4:22
Speaker 2: set of capital gains tax.
4:23
Speaker 3: If that place was your.
4:24
Speaker 2: Home throughout the whole period, there's a slight tax implication
4:28
Speaker 2: if you had rented it out for a period of time,
4:31
Speaker 2: so the tax office will look at, well, how long
4:34
Speaker 2: did you rent it out versus how long is it
4:36
Speaker 2: your home? And there's some nuances with those rules as well,
4:38
Speaker 2: such as a six year former residence exemption, but we
4:41
Speaker 2: won't go down that rabbit hole. But in short, if
4:43
Speaker 2: you've bought a home that you live in as your
4:45
Speaker 2: primary residence, there's no capital gains tax, which is quite
4:49
Speaker 2: unique because we've investment properties. You do have to pay
4:52
Speaker 2: capital gains tax, and it's very topical at the moment
4:55
Speaker 2: because the government's looking at increasing the amount of capital
4:57
Speaker 2: gains tax that you paid on any investment property, which
5:00
Speaker 2: actually way back into some arguments later. But okay, so
5:02
Speaker 2: there are very simply the headline tax breaks, folks. But
5:06
Speaker 2: the thing is which what you don't hear.
5:07
Speaker 1: And James's answers are bang on, and he hasn't had
5:11
Speaker 1: time to put the rest of it in place, But
5:13
Speaker 1: there is enormous differences once you sort of borrow under
5:16
Speaker 1: this headline tax attraction, and the huge thing is about
5:20
Speaker 1: whether you own your own home or not. So for instance,
5:24
Speaker 1: I we'll just go back to SUPER for a moment.
5:26
Speaker 1: If you own your own home, it is exempt basically
5:30
Speaker 1: from all rules around pension and Super. It doesn't really
5:35
Speaker 1: make much difference. It's not to dealt with to any
5:37
Speaker 1: great degree. And what that means is if I am
5:41
Speaker 1: sitting in one house and I rent that house, and
5:45
Speaker 1: someone else across the road owns their own home, they
5:48
Speaker 1: have enormous advantages. Because even on SUPER it sounded good
5:54
Speaker 1: at the start, it sounded terrific that you could have
5:56
Speaker 1: this amount in SUPER. But if I'm sitting in a
6:00
Speaker 1: rented house and I must pay rent each week and
6:05
Speaker 1: I have that, basically that drag on my capacity to earn,
6:09
Speaker 1: and someone across the world is in the same position,
6:12
Speaker 1: except that they own their house, they would be much
6:15
Speaker 1: better off in the tax system. James, could you explain
6:18
Speaker 1: how they are? And I think it's worth mentioning you
6:20
Speaker 1: know the fact that pension payments, for instance, are oblivious
6:24
Speaker 1: to whether you're on your own home, and a lot
6:25
Speaker 1: of SUPER tax rules are as well.
6:29
Speaker 3: That's right, I'll come back to that. It's sorry.
6:33
Speaker 2: The second one just came to my mind was sens
6:35
Speaker 2: a link with regards to home ownership at a non
6:37
Speaker 2: home ownership.
6:38
Speaker 3: Because that does make a really big difference there.
6:41
Speaker 2: So what my light bulb was that if you're someone
6:43
Speaker 2: who just wants to retire on the full age pension,
6:46
Speaker 2: which is forty thousand dollars a year for a couple,
6:49
Speaker 2: that the best financial strategy that you could possibly undertake
6:52
Speaker 2: is to buy the most expensive house that you can
6:54
Speaker 2: afford and centralize all of your assets inside of that
6:58
Speaker 2: family home. That's something that most people don't consider because
7:02
Speaker 2: the family home is exempt.
7:04
Speaker 3: From center links means test.
7:06
Speaker 2: So a retirement strategy that a few of my clients
7:08
Speaker 2: have undertaken has been to they've built up super by
7:11
Speaker 2: default throughout their working career, and the employer puts money in.
7:15
Speaker 2: But then when they retire and for sent lase age
7:17
Speaker 2: sixty seven to be totaled to the age pension, they said,
7:20
Speaker 2: we really want that age pension.
7:21
Speaker 3: We've paid so much tax to the government over the years.
7:24
Speaker 3: We want that forty thousand.
7:26
Speaker 1: Yes, it's worth the million a year. Basically you'd have
7:28
Speaker 1: to have a million a year somewhere else to get
7:31
Speaker 1: that payment in conservative returns.
7:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, that's right. So what they've done is they've gone,
7:36
Speaker 2: all right, well, let's have a look at the caps.
7:38
Speaker 2: So if you're a couple and you have your own
7:41
Speaker 2: home that you live in, you can have up to
7:43
Speaker 2: four hundred and eighty one thousand, five hundred dollars in
7:45
Speaker 2: assets and still get that full forty thousand dollars per
7:48
Speaker 2: year pension. So what they've done is, there's take a
7:51
Speaker 2: theoretical example, They've had a million dollars in SUPER. So
7:54
Speaker 2: what they've done is have taken half a million dollars
7:56
Speaker 2: out at Super. They've sold their home, They've added an
7:59
Speaker 2: extra fiveundred thousand dollars to the next home, so all
8:01
Speaker 2: they're left with is five hundred thousand in SUPER, which
8:04
Speaker 2: is about the threshold for that full forty thousand dollars
8:06
Speaker 2: per year pension.
8:07
Speaker 3: And they're living in a nicer property.
8:09
Speaker 2: So that's another advantage of going for the buy your
8:13
Speaker 2: home and focus on that versus the SUPER strategy.
8:16
Speaker 3: Is that exemption from the age age test.
8:19
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think it's gaming. I think it's logical,
8:23
Speaker 1: rational making the best of the system you are in.
8:26
Speaker 1: And so you actually have people who had money and Super,
8:30
Speaker 1: and rather than having that in SUPER, they're reverted as
8:34
Speaker 1: such to more comfort in having their home knowing that
8:37
Speaker 1: they could get a better pension basically through the system.
8:41
Speaker 1: Is that the essence of that strategy.
8:43
Speaker 3: That's the essence of it.
8:44
Speaker 2: And also if they wanted more than forty thousand dollars
8:48
Speaker 2: per year, they could go through that Central Link loan
8:50
Speaker 2: scheme as well. In tobocharge their pension payment by fifty
8:53
Speaker 2: percent as well, they get sixty thousand per year.
8:55
Speaker 1: That's right before we just talk about that, we talked
8:58
Speaker 1: about that's a pension. What about this super in super?
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Speaker 1: What's the difference whether I own my own home or not?
9:03
Speaker 1: Do I get my two million tax free? Either way?
9:06
Speaker 3: You do?
9:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, so sorry, that's the question that there's definitely no
9:10
Speaker 2: difference if to superannuation laws if you own a home
9:13
Speaker 2: or you don't own a home. It's only for sensially
9:16
Speaker 2: planning that owning a home makes a difference of superannuation,
9:18
Speaker 2: no difference.
9:19
Speaker 1: What we're looking at here, folks, is whether you know
9:21
Speaker 1: which is better? Where are we at the start here?
9:24
Speaker 1: We said, is it better to put the money into
9:26
Speaker 1: your super or into your home? Well, one of the
9:29
Speaker 1: things we're sort of developing here is the fact that
9:33
Speaker 1: in relation to your home is is treasured basically within
9:37
Speaker 1: the tax system. Renchers certainly are not treasured in any fashion,
9:40
Speaker 1: and renting gets very difficult at any time over a
9:43
Speaker 1: long period of time. But obviously if you're older in
9:45
Speaker 1: retirement it must be very difficult. And the number of
9:47
Speaker 1: people retiring, you know, who don't own their own home
9:50
Speaker 1: is increasing each year, two levels we have never seen before.
9:54
Speaker 1: But the essential point is that, as James outline, the
9:56
Speaker 1: biggest tax break in the system is that the family
10:00
Speaker 1: home is exempt from CGT and if you don't own
10:03
Speaker 1: a home then you will never get to use that
10:06
Speaker 1: tax break. I think that's the first point to put
10:08
Speaker 1: on the table, James. And then also natural run on
10:13
Speaker 1: from that is then all these housing issues are linked
10:17
Speaker 1: with the fact that the home is a very special place.
10:20
Speaker 1: Because you mentioned the CGT exemption and then you mentioned
10:23
Speaker 1: the other really important exemption, which is that if you
10:26
Speaker 1: were looking for a pension, and you know, folks of majority,
10:32
Speaker 1: the majority of older Australians receive a pension or at
10:37
Speaker 1: least access to a pension. That's a mathematical fact. So
10:39
Speaker 1: let's take it that half the listeners are serious about this.
10:43
Speaker 1: You're if you own your own home, you have a
10:50
Speaker 1: real advantage, don't you when you're in that system, which
10:53
Speaker 1: isn't there for the renter. So do you think it's
10:56
Speaker 1: more difficult to not own a home as you get older?
10:59
Speaker 1: In our tech systems in.
11:02
Speaker 2: All difficult not to own a home years because although
11:06
Speaker 2: you get a higher assets test threshold for sense a
11:09
Speaker 2: link if you don't own a home when I have
11:12
Speaker 2: a look at it.
11:12
Speaker 3: So if you do own a home.
11:13
Speaker 2: You get four hundred and eighty one thousand, five hundred
11:16
Speaker 2: in assets before they penalize you. If you don't have
11:18
Speaker 2: a home and you're a couple, it's seven hundred and
11:20
Speaker 2: thirty nine thousand, five hundred. And my argument is that
11:24
Speaker 2: extra threshold of a few hundred thousand dollars that they
11:26
Speaker 2: give you earning interest on that at five or six percent.
11:29
Speaker 3: That's not going to be enough to pay your rent.
11:31
Speaker 2: So you're going to have to use some of your
11:33
Speaker 2: super that you would have used for your living expenditure
11:36
Speaker 2: to actually pay your rent in retirement. So from a
11:39
Speaker 2: financial perspective, in most cases, it'll work out better for
11:43
Speaker 2: you to own a home then it will be in
11:45
Speaker 2: to rent. But also there's all those lost dole implications
11:49
Speaker 2: as well about tight rental markets, rising rents.
11:53
Speaker 1: Of course, we'll talk about that one minute. But so
11:55
Speaker 1: the person who rents is disadvantaged compared to the person
12:00
Speaker 1: who owned a home. This is what we're getting at.
12:03
Speaker 1: And I think this is basically putting it on that.
12:06
Speaker 1: I don't think James the tax system because it has
12:10
Speaker 1: these in bill penalties for the person who doesn't own
12:13
Speaker 1: a home. I think that's huge. And I know SUPER
12:15
Speaker 1: returns can be very reliable long term, and super has
12:19
Speaker 1: a tax benefit, of course it does, But I think
12:22
Speaker 1: the home ownership is crucial. Now, we didn't even this
12:26
Speaker 1: was just that was really just the financial side of this.
12:28
Speaker 1: There's very obvious parts which we don't even have to
12:31
Speaker 1: tell you folks. Short term rental is difficult. There is
12:34
Speaker 1: no long term rental arrangements in Australia. People have terrible
12:38
Speaker 1: difficulty trying to rent for long. It's exceptionally difficult to
12:41
Speaker 1: rent anything. Right now. We have a rental vacancy rate
12:43
Speaker 1: which is running for years, for years at less than
12:46
Speaker 1: two percent, but it's a terrible I don't think we
12:48
Speaker 1: can put have you seen anyone trying to put a
12:50
Speaker 1: price on that. The pressure of that on people who
12:55
Speaker 1: didn't get to own a home or didn't try hard perhaps,
12:58
Speaker 1: and we're busily building their super do you think they
13:01
Speaker 1: may it cot? And there's a price to pay in that.
13:06
Speaker 2: There is, particularly with the pace of growth of the
13:10
Speaker 2: Australian property market, it's been very steady and stable, and
13:14
Speaker 2: generally you fall behind and it almost becomes a two
13:17
Speaker 2: class economy. People that have purchased a home and their
13:20
Speaker 2: networth goes higher and people who haven't, and unfortunately, in
13:24
Speaker 2: most cases in my experience over the past twenty years.
13:26
Speaker 3: Their net worthy is lower.
13:28
Speaker 2: One other thing which I forgot to mention with regards
13:30
Speaker 2: to the benefits of owning a home versus.
13:33
Speaker 3: Not is when it comes to age care.
13:35
Speaker 2: So I've come across clients who are moving into age
13:37
Speaker 2: care facilities and your home that you lived in is
13:41
Speaker 2: exempt as an assets when they're working out their daily
13:44
Speaker 2: fees and you're sentlling pensions for two years. But if
13:47
Speaker 2: you have rented a home or you don't have that
13:48
Speaker 2: exemption and your home could be worth a lot.
13:51
Speaker 1: It's another inbuilt it's another in built bias basically against
13:56
Speaker 1: the non hormowner because there's such the taxes. It was
14:00
Speaker 1: entirely skewed in favor of the homeowner, and it was
14:02
Speaker 1: never probably thought through that how much bias would be
14:06
Speaker 1: built up against the renter. Basically in this instance and
14:10
Speaker 1: the other thing, I just wanted to put on the record.
14:12
Speaker 1: And I hope folks that at this stage when I
14:14
Speaker 1: say what I'm going to say, you can see where
14:16
Speaker 1: I'm coming from. All these surveys, ASPA, ETCETERA. Comfortable retirement.
14:20
Speaker 1: You know, how much did you have in retirements? The
14:22
Speaker 1: great old chestnut of all financial journalis in Australia, the
14:24
Speaker 1: unanswerable question. It doesn't matter what the survey is, it
14:28
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who's saying it. They always assume your own
14:31
Speaker 1: your own home. All those ASPA figures, for instance, which
14:34
Speaker 1: would be very reliable as to how much you should
14:36
Speaker 1: have in retirement and which is updated regularly, it assumes
14:38
Speaker 1: you own your own home. So I think the whole
14:41
Speaker 1: sort of system's got out of date, while the number
14:43
Speaker 1: of people who don't own their home is piling up,
14:45
Speaker 1: which brings me to I don't know where you come
14:47
Speaker 1: from this. I haven't asked you, but to me that
14:51
Speaker 1: if it's the case, unfortunately, and I'm not saying this,
14:55
Speaker 1: I'm not happy to say this because it doesn't stack
14:59
Speaker 1: up immediately if you think about it, and if you
15:01
Speaker 1: didn't know much about it, you'd say, well, I think
15:03
Speaker 1: it's obviously much better to have SUPER than put money
15:05
Speaker 1: in your family home because you need money for retirement,
15:07
Speaker 1: et cetera. But when you find out that the system
15:10
Speaker 1: is as biased against you if you don't own your home,
15:14
Speaker 1: then I feel dollar for dollar that the home ownership
15:18
Speaker 1: is more important than SUPER. I didn't really want to
15:21
Speaker 1: say that, but you know, that's the issue of that's
15:24
Speaker 1: the end result of a tax system which is overwhelmingly
15:27
Speaker 1: biased against the rencher. That's where I'm coming from. It's
15:30
Speaker 1: interesting I can back this up. The IMF this morning
15:32
Speaker 1: came up with something I have to say. Where do
15:34
Speaker 1: you come from on it? James? Is that a bit
15:36
Speaker 1: too cotton thrust? Is it a bit too black and white?
15:38
Speaker 1: Do you think it's not?
15:40
Speaker 2: But there are some considerations as well, so maybe best
15:44
Speaker 2: to answer it through what I did. So I'm forty two.
15:47
Speaker 2: I've just started building my super fun aggressively now. For
15:51
Speaker 2: the past twenty years I focused on home ownership. My
15:54
Speaker 2: first property was when I got married at twenty three.
15:56
Speaker 2: My wife we bought a two bit of an apartment in
15:57
Speaker 2: the low off shore of Sydney. That was all we
15:59
Speaker 2: could afford. That went up in value. We sold it
16:02
Speaker 2: capital gain SAX. We moved on to three.
16:05
Speaker 1: That was a great idea financially, financially at least I
16:09
Speaker 1: would I would recommend it to anybody, but yes, keep going.
16:13
Speaker 2: So sold the department, moved to a house, cheapest house
16:16
Speaker 2: in a suburb. It was all broken and run down.
16:19
Speaker 2: We had no money to renovate it. We saved money
16:21
Speaker 2: and bit by bit we improved that property. It doubled
16:24
Speaker 2: in value. Over was that an eight year period. We
16:27
Speaker 2: then sold that no capital gang SAX. And then we
16:30
Speaker 2: bought the dream forever home, the one that we're happy
16:32
Speaker 2: to raise our three children through to adulthood. And I
16:36
Speaker 2: focus on that partly because of the games I thought
16:40
Speaker 2: I would make on property, but mainly because of the
16:43
Speaker 2: lifestyle aspects, financial security. I didn't want to have to
16:46
Speaker 2: report and deal to a landlord, deal with rent rises.
16:50
Speaker 2: I just wanted to be in control of my own
16:52
Speaker 2: finances where I lived. That was really important, coming home
16:56
Speaker 2: every day to something was mine. Orbit the bank Hon's
16:58
Speaker 2: part of it, but mine. To this discussion, Whereas some people,
17:03
Speaker 2: and a very valid argument, they feel a different way.
17:05
Speaker 2: They don't want the loan from a bank. They rather
17:08
Speaker 2: have that financial freedom to be able to move around
17:11
Speaker 2: place to place, not be burdened by that mortgage. So
17:14
Speaker 2: when it comes to is it better to focus on
17:16
Speaker 2: superversus a home, the consideration is there you do have
17:20
Speaker 2: to take out.
17:21
Speaker 3: A mortgage, and if you live in.
17:22
Speaker 2: Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth Adelaide, you're going to have to
17:25
Speaker 2: take out a pretty big mortgage to buy a property.
17:28
Speaker 2: And if your financial situation changes, you lose your job,
17:31
Speaker 2: you could go into mortgage distress and you may have
17:33
Speaker 2: to sell the property. If interest rates go up like
17:35
Speaker 2: they did earlier this month, and they're likely to go
17:37
Speaker 2: up again by July and maybe one more by December,
17:40
Speaker 2: you could go into financial distress. And so there are
17:43
Speaker 2: times where owning a property can put you into a
17:46
Speaker 2: really bad financial situation and a bit of a pickle
17:49
Speaker 2: because of that size of that loan that you have there.
17:52
Speaker 2: So it's not black and white. You do need to
17:54
Speaker 2: be able to cope with potential stress, particularly in the
17:56
Speaker 2: earlier years when your mortgage is higher, when you just
17:59
Speaker 2: bought that property and be able to be comfortable to
18:01
Speaker 2: deal with that versus the prize of having more money
18:04
Speaker 2: on a cashway brisis because you're renting and then dumping
18:06
Speaker 2: that money into Super.
18:08
Speaker 1: Okay, it can take a short break, and what I
18:10
Speaker 1: want to do in the second half is develop this. Say,
18:12
Speaker 1: if it's the case dollar for dollar, that money is
18:15
Speaker 1: better going into the family home than Super. If you
18:18
Speaker 1: agree with that, let's see what it would mean to
18:20
Speaker 1: you as an investor. What would it mean in day
18:22
Speaker 1: to day? Okay, back in a moment. Hello, Welcome back
18:33
Speaker 1: to The Australian's Money Puzzle podcast. I'm James Kirby. Welcome
18:36
Speaker 1: aboard to the second part of this show. James Girard.
18:40
Speaker 1: Two James is here. The one with the Irish accent
18:42
Speaker 1: is Kirby. The one with the Australian accent is Gerard.
18:45
Speaker 1: James g two things. Okay, So if we take it
18:51
Speaker 1: that the system is very biased against the person who rents,
18:54
Speaker 1: I didn't even the reason. I didn't even go into
18:56
Speaker 1: the obvious. I was trying to pick up the things
18:58
Speaker 1: that we could were tangibly able to prove as opposed
19:01
Speaker 1: to the stuff that's more intangible, like what's the price
19:03
Speaker 1: of security? I mean, what's that you talk about the
19:05
Speaker 1: pressure of having a mortgage. What's the pressure of having
19:08
Speaker 1: to find a new place to rent If you're in
19:10
Speaker 1: your fifties and there's a parental vacancy rate of you know,
19:14
Speaker 1: one and a half percent, and you know that the
19:16
Speaker 1: rent costs are way out of line compared to the
19:20
Speaker 1: prices even now. So as thing that I think is
19:23
Speaker 1: always there. But for someone let's take two scenarios. The
19:28
Speaker 1: person who's halfway through paying off a mortgage and they
19:31
Speaker 1: similarly have super, I would say that the superannuation guarantee,
19:38
Speaker 1: the compulsory twelve percent, is high enough, and I don't
19:42
Speaker 1: think you need to voluntarily contribute anymore if you've got
19:45
Speaker 1: a mortgage sitting there that you need to pay off.
19:47
Speaker 1: Because if you get to that point of home ownership,
19:49
Speaker 1: you kind of hit that sort of blue sky that's
19:51
Speaker 1: built within the system, which is so pro homeowner. What
19:57
Speaker 1: would you say to someone who's sitting across from you,
20:00
Speaker 1: seeing I'm fifty five and I could go either way,
20:03
Speaker 1: what should I do?
20:06
Speaker 2: I've had this conversation a lot, and the main consideration
20:10
Speaker 2: is what's the interest rate?
20:12
Speaker 3: Of the day.
20:13
Speaker 2: If we go back to COVID, when you could pick
20:15
Speaker 2: up loans at two percent variable interest rate, there's not
20:19
Speaker 2: much benefit in pain making extra repayments on your mortgage
20:22
Speaker 2: because you're just saving two percent. So why not maybe
20:25
Speaker 2: consider putting a bit more into superinnuation, particularly if you
20:28
Speaker 2: can do it with those pre tax super contributions and
20:30
Speaker 2: claim a tax deduction on it. Whereas today, as interest
20:34
Speaker 2: rates are increasing and the average homelan rate maybe six
20:37
Speaker 2: and a half percent in the next twelve months, then
20:39
Speaker 2: there's more of an argument to make those extra mortgage repayments,
20:43
Speaker 2: and particularly if you're nearing retirement in your fifties, because
20:46
Speaker 2: you want that certainty. I want to lock in that
20:48
Speaker 2: guarantee six and a half percent return by paying down
20:51
Speaker 2: my mortgage. But I would acknowledge that paying your mortgage
20:55
Speaker 2: is with after tax dollars. So if you're earning a
20:58
Speaker 2: decent employment income, you can lose almost half of every
21:01
Speaker 2: dollar that you were earning in tax, and that money
21:04
Speaker 2: left over is all you have to make those mortgage repayments.
21:07
Speaker 2: Whereas it just been an a devil's advocate with this.
21:09
Speaker 2: An alternative strategy is to go all right I'm going
21:13
Speaker 2: to I like property, but I like renting where I
21:16
Speaker 2: live as well. So what you could do in theory
21:18
Speaker 2: is set up a self managed super fund. You could
21:21
Speaker 2: buy property inside of your superinnuation fund and you could
21:24
Speaker 2: borrow up to seventy percent of the purchase price inside
21:27
Speaker 2: a super to buy that property, and you could focus
21:29
Speaker 2: on mortgage repayments of that property in SUPER. And that's
21:32
Speaker 2: an investment property, to be very clear. You could focus
21:35
Speaker 2: your cash flow to make repayments on that investment property
21:37
Speaker 2: in SUPER by tax, effectively pushing part of your wage
21:41
Speaker 2: into SUPER. And when you turn sixty and you retire,
21:45
Speaker 2: you can sell that investment property in SUPER and not
21:47
Speaker 2: pay any capital gains tax. So that's the same situation
21:50
Speaker 2: as you owning your home personally no tax. So there
21:53
Speaker 2: is a way, too synthetical to create a strategy to
21:55
Speaker 2: have no tax on property in super as well.
21:58
Speaker 1: It's a way to make the invent in residential property
22:01
Speaker 1: for you tax deductible. Correct, except what he's supposed to
22:06
Speaker 1: do while you're doing that.
22:09
Speaker 3: You live.
22:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, but that's that's a very valid strategy and
22:15
Speaker 1: may suit some people, especially people I suppose who know
22:17
Speaker 1: they're going to move around a lot, or don't know
22:19
Speaker 1: where they want to live, and the realities of this
22:23
Speaker 1: sort of thing. You know, are you in a couple.
22:25
Speaker 1: Is that couple going to be you know, is that
22:27
Speaker 1: couple going to be the Is it going to last
22:29
Speaker 1: for ten years? It's going to last the rest of
22:30
Speaker 1: your life. It's the job you have in Melbourne, you
22:34
Speaker 1: know the job you're going to have next year. Do
22:36
Speaker 1: you want to live overseas for a while. I'm leading
22:38
Speaker 1: to when someone's younger looking at this. I was having
22:41
Speaker 1: a conversation with my own daughter recently. You're talking about
22:43
Speaker 1: buying a house, just thinking about it theoretically, and she
22:48
Speaker 1: started talking about voluntary super and how her super was
22:50
Speaker 1: behind others, and I was saying, you know, don't worry
22:55
Speaker 1: about your super in your late twenties. If you've got
22:58
Speaker 1: a compulsory you have to put trust sent in compulsory
23:01
Speaker 1: and house prices are raising around you, I think the
23:04
Speaker 1: priority should be to get the dollars in there.
23:07
Speaker 3: Thing.
23:08
Speaker 1: One thing I wanted to want to put you is
23:10
Speaker 1: if this is the case, James, then where do you
23:14
Speaker 1: stand on allow allowing people to use their superfer home deposits,
23:19
Speaker 1: which is a Liberal Party policy, and specifically one from
23:23
Speaker 1: Tim Winson, who we're ninety nine percent sure is about
23:26
Speaker 1: to be announced as shadow treasure in the new Tailor
23:31
Speaker 1: Coalition cabinet.
23:33
Speaker 2: I think it's great and I reflect on personal experience
23:37
Speaker 2: when I bought that to bidroom apartment in the Lowe
23:39
Speaker 2: Now shore of my wife for now early twenties. We
23:42
Speaker 2: borrowed one hundred and three percent. Remember back then when
23:45
Speaker 2: you could borrow more than the purchase price. Yes, so
23:48
Speaker 2: that was because the banking system allowed us to do that,
23:50
Speaker 2: and the regulations have tightened up. But similarly to that
23:54
Speaker 2: today would be to access superinnuation, and we would have
23:57
Speaker 2: been delayed getting into the property market.
23:59
Speaker 3: And I don't feel I would have.
24:01
Speaker 2: Been in the same position to be able to buy
24:03
Speaker 2: the home that I wanted to at the point of
24:04
Speaker 2: life when I did if I wasn't able to get
24:06
Speaker 2: into the property market as early as possible. So the
24:09
Speaker 2: way that I think about it is that superinnuation is
24:11
Speaker 2: therefore retirement. But a people have a long life and
24:15
Speaker 2: if they're on their twenties, their focus if they want
24:18
Speaker 2: home ownership should be to buy a home. Retirement's later,
24:21
Speaker 2: home ownership's first, So if you need to dip into
24:23
Speaker 2: that pot for retirement to be able to achieve that
24:26
Speaker 2: earlier goal of home ownership.
24:28
Speaker 3: I think that's a fantastic thing to do.
24:29
Speaker 2: But of course the critics of this approach would say, well,
24:32
Speaker 2: people will have less SUPER down the track. You just
24:35
Speaker 2: need to be very disciplined, which I would argue most
24:38
Speaker 2: people wouldn't be. But you need to be disciplined to go, well,
24:40
Speaker 2: I took that money from SUPER, I bought the property.
24:43
Speaker 2: Now I need to work hard to sort of replenish
24:45
Speaker 2: that again and put that money back into SUPER over
24:47
Speaker 2: and say like.
24:48
Speaker 3: A ten year period, yes.
24:49
Speaker 1: To achieve this comfortable retirement figure, which does assume, as
24:53
Speaker 1: I say, they always assume you own your own house.
24:55
Speaker 1: What about the person who says, policy wise, this is
24:58
Speaker 1: all wrong. SUPER policy should be for SUPER and home
25:01
Speaker 1: ownership policies should be for whole ownership, and you should
25:04
Speaker 1: never go near SUPER that they should never touch it.
25:07
Speaker 1: What do you think of that largericalow argument?
25:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it, And that's the reason why twelve
25:13
Speaker 2: percent of our salaries is put into Superannuation is therefore retirement.
25:18
Speaker 3: So it's totally valid.
25:20
Speaker 2: And the problem is what I alluded to that people
25:22
Speaker 2: if they touch their super, they're sure they'll buy a property,
25:25
Speaker 2: but they're not going to replace it again.
25:27
Speaker 3: So you're going to end up with more people in
25:29
Speaker 3: retirement with.
25:30
Speaker 2: Low superbalancers who were relying on the government perse for
25:33
Speaker 2: the age pension, who are living in these million dollar
25:35
Speaker 2: homes that they bought because they actually said super which
25:38
Speaker 2: is exempt from the CENTERINGK tests as well.
25:40
Speaker 3: So I can understand the other side.
25:42
Speaker 2: But me having gone through it myself and the difficulties
25:45
Speaker 2: have been able to buy a property in my twenties,
25:48
Speaker 2: and the property markets jumped substantially since I was in
25:50
Speaker 2: my twenties, I can only imagine the difficulty for people
25:53
Speaker 2: today in their twenties been able to buy. I see
25:55
Speaker 2: a lot of younger people come through my doors, and
25:58
Speaker 2: without the support ofily with lions and gifts, it's really
26:02
Speaker 2: hard for younger people to get that deposit together to
26:05
Speaker 2: crack into the market. So although there are some government
26:07
Speaker 2: schames to help with that, I'm very supportive of jumping
26:10
Speaker 2: into your souper to help boost that deposit.
26:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm supportive of it too, but as I say reluctantly,
26:16
Speaker 1: but it's factional. When you understand the tax system, folks.
26:19
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any other answer. Okay, we'll take
26:21
Speaker 1: short break. We've got some great questions lined up. James
26:23
Speaker 1: is going to stick.
26:24
Speaker 4: Around and answer them.
26:35
Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome back to The Australian's Money Puzzled podcast. I'm
26:38
Speaker 1: James Kirby and we're going to ask James Gerard some questions.
26:41
Speaker 1: These are listener questions that come in all the time.
26:43
Speaker 1: I collect them depending on the guests who I've got,
26:46
Speaker 1: I will sort of curate them for their appropriate person.
26:51
Speaker 1: James is definitely the appropriate person for some of these questions,
26:53
Speaker 1: particularly the one about electric cars this pet subject. Okay,
26:58
Speaker 1: from Lee and E. My question, is there a straightforward
27:03
Speaker 1: way for a retiree super fond member to conduct a
27:05
Speaker 1: recontribution strategy? Why maintaining the tax free status on earnings?
27:10
Speaker 1: I hope this catches your interest to offer some solutions. Okay,
27:14
Speaker 1: I know what he's saying, but Jims, could you kind
27:16
Speaker 1: of paraphrase that question? What's he really asking there?
27:19
Speaker 2: Of course, James, So the recontribution strategy is where you're
27:23
Speaker 2: pulling a lump sum of money out of the superannuation
27:26
Speaker 2: environment and putting it back in again, so it's very circular.
27:30
Speaker 2: The end balance is the same, but the difference is
27:33
Speaker 2: that you've altered the tax components of your superinnuation account.
27:37
Speaker 2: So you're pulling money out, but that would be a
27:40
Speaker 2: mix of tax free and taxable component for most people,
27:43
Speaker 2: and when you put it back in again, it's all
27:45
Speaker 2: tax free. No benefit for the retiree, but benefit for
27:49
Speaker 2: the adult children of the retiree after the retiree passes away,
27:53
Speaker 2: because there is seventeen percent tax on the taxable component
27:57
Speaker 2: of superinnuation when it's passed through to what's classified as
28:00
Speaker 2: non dependence.
28:01
Speaker 1: So his specific question is he's in a big fund. Obviously,
28:05
Speaker 1: can he do that? Ridiculous by the way, ridiculous circular
28:09
Speaker 1: merry go round thing. But it makes sense that you
28:11
Speaker 1: can take money out of super, believe it or not
28:13
Speaker 1: and put it back in. It goes back in this
28:15
Speaker 1: tax to doctoral contribution, and that means in the distant future,
28:21
Speaker 1: when you die, your adult dependence, when they inherit that
28:24
Speaker 1: super will pay less tax on it. That's what it's
28:26
Speaker 1: all about. He's asking can he do it in a
28:27
Speaker 1: big fund? Can he can?
28:30
Speaker 3: He can?
28:31
Speaker 2: But practically it's very messy. So Let's just assume that
28:34
Speaker 2: lee and as you say, all the lee's out there,
28:36
Speaker 2: he's retired. Let's just say he's got a million dollars
28:39
Speaker 2: in his account based pension, that tax free retirement fund.
28:42
Speaker 2: He pulls two hundred thousand dollars out, and he wants
28:46
Speaker 2: to put that.
28:47
Speaker 3: Back in again.
28:47
Speaker 2: Under this recontribution strategy, given that he's only got his
28:51
Speaker 2: account based pension, he can't put the two hundred thousand
28:53
Speaker 2: dollars back into that same pension that he took the
28:56
Speaker 2: money out from. He has to set up a super
28:58
Speaker 2: accumulation account and then put in two hundred thousand dollars
29:01
Speaker 2: into that super accumulation account. And then he can't add
29:05
Speaker 2: that two hundred thousand dollars to the pension account because
29:07
Speaker 2: I can't add to a pension. So he has to
29:08
Speaker 2: do what's called a commutation of his eight hundred thousand
29:12
Speaker 2: dollars remaining pension, so that he's got these two hundred
29:15
Speaker 2: thousand dollars fresh money in, he's got eight hundred thousand
29:17
Speaker 2: dollars he's pulled back together, and then he needs to
29:19
Speaker 2: start a brand new pension account.
29:21
Speaker 3: So in this whole.
29:22
Speaker 2: Silly process, there's three different super accounts involved. But unfortunately,
29:26
Speaker 2: if you want to do that recontribution strategy, they're the
29:29
Speaker 2: hoops that you have to jump through. There's no other
29:30
Speaker 2: way around it.
29:31
Speaker 1: I wonder in a big super fund, and I can
29:34
Speaker 1: name any of them, it doesn't matter. I just wonder
29:38
Speaker 1: how you'd be getting on on the phone to your
29:39
Speaker 1: cold center when you ring up, and so you want
29:41
Speaker 1: to do that, I shudder to think what that would
29:43
Speaker 1: be like easier with the set amounted super fund. I
29:46
Speaker 1: expect that it's enow to promote them over the other book.
29:49
Speaker 1: It's a practical issue, folks. So you can lee question
29:53
Speaker 1: is you were how you would approach them. You'd have
29:55
Speaker 1: to basically tell them the questions and the answers. And
29:57
Speaker 1: I expect as you've stay, but you should be able
29:59
Speaker 1: to who. Of course you should be able to because
30:01
Speaker 1: you can as an SMSF. And if you were had
30:04
Speaker 1: the discipline to do it over a long term, and
30:07
Speaker 1: you did it systematically, year after year after year, your
30:09
Speaker 1: adult children dependents the day they do get your super
30:12
Speaker 1: as an inheritance, would pay much less tax because they
30:15
Speaker 1: pay seventeen percent. You know which is they pay seventeen
30:17
Speaker 1: percent if they inherit your super for most people most
30:19
Speaker 1: of the time, and it is slowly becoming obvious to
30:24
Speaker 1: the wider public that sits there. People used to think
30:26
Speaker 1: that there's no inheritance tax in Australia, but hit this
30:28
Speaker 1: one all right. And by the way, these answers are
30:31
Speaker 1: information only, not advice.
30:33
Speaker 4: As you know.
30:34
Speaker 1: There's two questions from Car with the seed. I know
30:39
Speaker 1: you're just mad keen to do the electric vehicle one,
30:42
Speaker 1: but let's do the first one. He says that he's
30:45
Speaker 1: got two questions. I recently instolled a solar array whatever
30:49
Speaker 1: that is, with a battery. I estimate I should be
30:52
Speaker 1: offgrade for about ninety five percent of the year. I'm
30:55
Speaker 1: planning to join a virtual power plant to sell excess energy.
30:58
Speaker 1: How ambitious all this is. Do I need to declare
31:01
Speaker 1: this income to the AT or tax on it? I'll
31:03
Speaker 1: tell you what, Car, I don't know what the answer is,
31:06
Speaker 1: but if the ATO can smell income anywhere, I bet
31:09
Speaker 1: the answer is yes. Yes. James Gerard, what is the
31:12
Speaker 1: form an answer to current's question?
31:15
Speaker 2: I read this and panic because I'm going to have
31:18
Speaker 2: a system upgraded at by play so I'm be twenty killer.
31:21
Speaker 2: Wat's a solo and fifty killer whateur battery, so even
31:24
Speaker 2: bigger than what Karl has. And I didn't actually think
31:27
Speaker 2: about the tax consideration because I'm going to know, I'm
31:31
Speaker 2: not really excited by having this virtual power plan being
31:34
Speaker 2: off the grid making money.
31:36
Speaker 3: By selling my electricity back again.
31:39
Speaker 2: So in a panic, rang my account and he said, look,
31:42
Speaker 2: if you're a business, yes you'll have to declare it.
31:45
Speaker 2: But if you're a homeowner and you're not in the
31:47
Speaker 2: business and you don't run this on a commercial scale
31:49
Speaker 2: of selling electricity back to the grid, well then it's
31:53
Speaker 2: not taxable income.
31:54
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I bet the ATO will find a
31:57
Speaker 1: way to classify it was a little walking power play.
32:00
Speaker 1: Get some money off you sooner or later, okay. Second
32:03
Speaker 1: part of Carl's very good questions. I've been reading about
32:06
Speaker 1: lithium batteries, which are used in most cars, and I'm
32:09
Speaker 1: surprised to learn that they get that there is a
32:11
Speaker 1: gel type. I understand that solid state batteries are coming
32:14
Speaker 1: online in the next couple of years. This is very
32:17
Speaker 1: this is I'm myles, I have no chance on this stuff.
32:20
Speaker 1: I can barely understand. When they lift the hood of
32:22
Speaker 1: my car, I barely know where anything is. They apparently
32:24
Speaker 1: last longer and faster. My question is, here's this question.
32:29
Speaker 1: Is it worth buying an electric car now or would
32:32
Speaker 1: it be better to wait for a context? I currently
32:36
Speaker 1: have a cheap run around, Okay, Carl, I currently have
32:40
Speaker 1: a petrol run around myself. And I have thought about
32:42
Speaker 1: electric cars and I think you know, they're probably getting
32:45
Speaker 1: better and better, and so the old ones are probably
32:48
Speaker 1: getting worse and worse. And I think the pace of
32:53
Speaker 1: technological invention there would tell you that the electric car
32:56
Speaker 1: today is way better than the one three years ago,
32:58
Speaker 1: when the one in three years time will be way better.
33:00
Speaker 1: At what point do you jump in? What is the answer?
33:03
Speaker 1: James Gerard car, electric vehicle driver, et cetera.
33:08
Speaker 2: Correct with all of the above. I was an early adopter,
33:11
Speaker 2: as you're aware. I jumped in twenty twenty two when
33:15
Speaker 2: the government opened up that scheme to basically use a
33:18
Speaker 2: pre tax income to.
33:19
Speaker 1: Fund the police costs.
33:22
Speaker 3: Exist.
33:23
Speaker 1: It's fully tax deductible, basically if you do a put
33:26
Speaker 1: simply anyway, yes, Carr, answer.
33:29
Speaker 3: So no long bilk, no french maniphests tax.
33:32
Speaker 2: It's great and I've kept an eye on the EV
33:34
Speaker 2: markets and I've written about it for you, James and
33:36
Speaker 2: The Australian in the WEL section a couple of times,
33:38
Speaker 2: and I've looked at I looked at a couple of things.
33:41
Speaker 2: One thing I looked at is total operating cost including depreciation.
33:46
Speaker 2: Is it better to go for an ice S, which
33:48
Speaker 2: is internal combustion engine. Is it better to go for
33:50
Speaker 2: a hybrid or is it better to go for an
33:52
Speaker 2: electric vehicle? And up until very recently, it's always been
33:57
Speaker 2: the petrol engine car because it's the cheapest, so that
34:00
Speaker 2: would cost you more on ongoing basis fuel. The depreciation
34:03
Speaker 2: is much lower because you buy it for a lot cheaper.
34:07
Speaker 2: But now these days you can buy evs for twenty
34:10
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars drive away. Sure they're the little hatchback ones,
34:13
Speaker 2: but a couple of years ago it was forty forty
34:16
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars minimum.
34:18
Speaker 3: They're all very deep.
34:19
Speaker 2: You go back to the start of this, so ten
34:21
Speaker 2: years ago when it was just Tesla's and they were
34:23
Speaker 2: like one hundred thousand dollars. So the price has come
34:26
Speaker 2: down substantially on the evs due to the influx of
34:29
Speaker 2: Chinese manufacturers.
34:31
Speaker 3: I see all these cars on the road these days,
34:32
Speaker 3: and I don't recognize that the brand.
34:34
Speaker 2: I remember as a kid there was only like five
34:36
Speaker 2: or so car companies. Only everything was these days is
34:39
Speaker 2: all these cars going around with these and all these things.
34:42
Speaker 1: If you don't recognize the brand, it's Chinese as a
34:45
Speaker 1: general rule. But tell me that's true. Books tell me
34:48
Speaker 1: about car's question should he weet?
34:52
Speaker 3: Oh?
34:52
Speaker 1: Should he buy now?
34:53
Speaker 3: I think you should buy now.
34:54
Speaker 2: Technology is at the point that the range, so how
34:58
Speaker 2: far you can drive the sea info you need to recharge,
35:00
Speaker 2: is very long.
35:01
Speaker 3: It's come leaps and bounds.
35:03
Speaker 2: So when I look at my twenty twenty two Volvo EV,
35:06
Speaker 2: the range was about four hundred kilometers. If I have
35:08
Speaker 2: to buy the equivalent model today, the range is probably
35:10
Speaker 2: six hundred and fifty kilometers. So there's been significant gains
35:13
Speaker 2: on the battery technology that the prices come down. Just
35:17
Speaker 2: the technology inside the car, not just the battery itself,
35:20
Speaker 2: but the ways that the car is just set up
35:23
Speaker 2: is better as well. And I think it's at that
35:25
Speaker 2: point where it's the computers, the PCs in the nineteen
35:27
Speaker 2: nineties and the two thousands, that every year there'll be
35:30
Speaker 2: a new Pentium that comes out with more ram but
35:32
Speaker 2: it's got to a point where the next year was
35:35
Speaker 2: only like slightly better than the year before that. And
35:38
Speaker 2: I think we're starting to get to that point with
35:40
Speaker 2: EVS where there will be more gains. But if you've
35:42
Speaker 2: been interested and you need a new car, now's a
35:45
Speaker 2: great time.
35:45
Speaker 1: Okay. I like that. That's very interesting. I know that
35:50
Speaker 1: you have taken the mantle basically of writing on the
35:52
Speaker 1: evs far the web section. At one stage before you
35:56
Speaker 1: came along, I used to write on them and I
35:57
Speaker 1: met the grievous error on one one piece for The
36:01
Speaker 1: Australian of getting into technical detail. And we had a
36:05
Speaker 1: lot of comments. As you know, the readers of the
36:07
Speaker 1: Australian sometimes a little bit skeptical about electrically cars and
36:11
Speaker 1: I hadn't mentioned towing capacity and towing capacity, well, let
36:15
Speaker 1: me tell you, folks outside the city fringe, you want
36:18
Speaker 1: to know your towing capacity? And don't you dare ever
36:20
Speaker 1: write about electric cars? How's the towing capacity on James?
36:24
Speaker 1: Has that come along as well?
36:27
Speaker 3: Not really?
36:28
Speaker 1: I see.
36:28
Speaker 2: If you're a metropolitan person who wants to tow jet Ski,
36:33
Speaker 2: great EVS for you. But if you want to tell
36:36
Speaker 2: anything above that, no, probably not an ev.
36:38
Speaker 1: If you got electric jet ski yet, No, I don't know.
36:42
Speaker 3: I've seen electric motorbikes around.
36:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I think it's inevitable, but maybe they might
36:47
Speaker 1: make as much noise. We'll see, Okay, terrific. Hey, thanks
36:50
Speaker 1: very much James for talking to us today. That was
36:52
Speaker 1: pretty good. We haven't done a show on this before
36:55
Speaker 1: on the Core Nocean, and I think on Super, I
36:58
Speaker 1: think people need to fully see to fully see the
37:02
Speaker 1: tax situation on Super. I think it would inform a
37:04
Speaker 1: lot of Feaver's opinions. Thanks James, your ard Financial Advisor
37:07
Speaker 1: dot com dot au will talk to you again.
37:09
Speaker 3: That's great. Thank you James, and thanks to Leah.
37:12
Speaker 1: Samag Glue for producing today's show. Talk to you soon.