Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Should You Sell Your Microstrategy? (IS IT OVER?!) | EP 1313

Transcript

Should You Sell Your Microstrategy? (IS IT OVER?!) | EP 1313 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  New rumors are circulating that MicroStrategy could be in
• 0:04
  trouble because of what they just did.
• 0:07
  Sailor changed a very important rule this week that not only
• 0:10
  effects MicroStrategy investors, but it's a rule he promised he
• 0:14
  would never change. Is MicroStrategy in trouble?
• 0:18
  That's the big question. That's what everyone's wondering
• 0:21
  right now and leading to what we talked about here.
• 0:24
  Could this be a sign that the Bitcoin treasury companies are
• 0:28
  the pin that pops a 2025 bull run?
• 0:32
  So before we go on, I got to bring in Niko with us.
• 0:35
  Niko is actually going to cover all this.
• 0:36
  He's got all the sauce for today.
• 0:38
  And then we have our friend Kent from SAS Mining with us on
• 0:41
  today. So Niko, the floor is all yours.
• 0:43
  Let's go through this saga. Yeah, let's jump straight into
• 0:46
  it. So it's just been getting quite
• 0:49
  a lot of attention on X. And essentially the TLDR is
• 0:55
  Michael Saylor change the policy to put it nicely.
• 1:00
  So here's the article by Coin Central.
• 1:02
  Michael Saylor reverses stance on MSTR stock issuance amid
• 1:07
  Bitcoin slump. Now, the entire X community and
• 1:11
  the investing community has not really taken this too well.
• 1:17
  We have Josh Mandel who's saying some things we're going to get
• 1:21
  we're going to get into that. We have Fred Krueger who's been
• 1:23
  saying some things and of course we have Alex Leishman.
• 1:26
  Now what I will personally say about the Bitcoin treasury
• 1:29
  companies as a whole is the whole purpose of them for the
• 1:33
  whole purpose of you buying a Bitcoin treasury company is for
• 1:37
  you to outperform Bitcoin. But what happens when the M NAV
• 1:42
  goes below the total assets of the company holds?
• 1:47
  Then it doesn't make sense to buy a Bitcoin treasury company
• 1:50
  because then by definition it's not outperforming Bitcoin.
• 1:54
  Now we knew this was always going to happen when the Bitcoin
• 1:58
  price goes up, when it's in a bull run, the the Bitcoin
• 2:03
  treasury companies do have the probability of outperforming
• 2:06
  Bitcoin because they can tap into the financial markets, use
• 2:10
  leverage and if Bitcoin goes up 10%, maybe they go up 20%.
• 2:16
  The problem is when the price goes down.
• 2:19
  Now, does that mean that I think MicroStrategy is going to
• 2:22
  explode during the next bear market?
• 2:25
  No Do I think that Nakamoto is going to explode during the next
• 2:29
  bear market? No.
• 2:30
  Do I think 21 Jack Mahler, SoftBank and Tethers company is
• 2:35
  going to explode during the next bear market?
• 2:37
  No. But all the other copycats on
• 2:40
  the list that have to cut more and more corners in order to be
• 2:44
  able to raise capital, take on leverage to buy more Bitcoin.
• 2:48
  Do I think they're going to explode, which is going to set
• 2:51
  off a domino effect? Absolutely.
• 2:55
  And I think we're just getting a taste of that right now.
• 2:59
  So today's news, the headline for the audio listeners, Michael
• 3:02
  Saylor reverse his stance on MSTR stock issuance amid Bitcoin
• 3:07
  slump. The TLDR is Michael Saylor has
• 3:10
  revised MicroStrategy stock issuance rules to allow greater
• 3:15
  flexibility in Bitcoin acquisitions.
• 3:18
  The company will issue MSTR stock under a market to asset
• 3:22
  value of 2.5 to fund Bitcoin purchases.
• 3:27
  The M NAV Premium that once stood at 3.4.
• 3:30
  X. Has fallen to 1.6 X promoting A
• 3:34
  prompting the strategic shift. MSTR Stocks stock has struggled
• 3:39
  with performance, trading around $360.00 amid a decline in its
• 3:45
  premium over Bitcoin. Analysts suggest that MSTR stock
• 3:49
  may experience further declines if it falls below $360.00.
• 3:55
  So what does this all mean? It means that Michael Saylor
• 3:59
  just reversed course on Microstrategy's stock issuance
• 4:03
  policy, and it's a big deal. Until now, the company has a had
• 4:08
  a safeguard in place. They wouldn't issue new shares
• 4:11
  to buy Bitcoin unless MSTR stock was trading at least 2.5 times
• 4:17
  the value of its Bitcoin holdings.
• 4:20
  That rule was meant to protect shareholders from heavy
• 4:23
  dilution, but with Bitcoin slumping and Microstrategy's
• 4:27
  premium shrinking, Sailor has decided to scrap that rule
• 4:31
  altogether. Now the company can issue stock
• 4:34
  even at weaker valuations, basically whenever management
• 4:38
  thinks it's advantageous. What does this mean?
• 4:42
  On the positive side, it gives Micro Strategy more flexibility
• 4:47
  to keep buying Bitcoin no matter what the market does.
• 4:50
  Sailor isn't slowing down. Just last week.
• 4:53
  They added another 430 beat Bitcoin, pushing bring their
• 4:58
  total holdings to nearly 630,000 Bitcoin, by far the largest
• 5:04
  Bitcoin treasury company. But there's a trade off.
• 5:07
  Investors are worried that this exposes shareholders to more
• 5:11
  dilution and even in even greater volatility.
• 5:15
  Without the 2.5 X safeguard, the company could issue more stock
• 5:20
  when prices are low, spreading out existing ownership and
• 5:24
  weakening confidence in. Short Sailor is doubling.
• 5:28
  Down. The company is staying
• 5:29
  aggressive on Bitcoin accumulation, but it comes at
• 5:33
  the cost of shareholder protection.
• 5:35
  Flexibility for MicroStrategy on uncertainty for investors.
• 5:40
  Now, did Sailor lie? He did not lie about the 2.5 X
• 5:44
  rule. He simply just abandoned it.
• 5:47
  Now let's get some of the reactions from some of the
• 5:51
  community regarding what just happened in this recent policy
• 5:55
  change. So we're going to start off with
• 5:57
  Josh Mandel. He says please stop asking me
• 6:01
  but if or why I sold MSR at 1.5 M NAV.
• 6:06
  You just don't seem to get it. I actually bought above here and
• 6:10
  then Sailor sold. He said they wouldn't and then
• 6:13
  he did. I'm announcing that I will not
• 6:16
  speak in support of anything that man does.
• 6:18
  Again. This is very harsh criticism.
• 6:21
  He can say he changed his mind with the three-year plan after
• 6:25
  he decided to hold a fire sale, but he doesn't get to use that I
• 6:29
  change my mind excuse again this time plenty of people saw it
• 6:34
  coming. Like bit by bit pain I I just
• 6:37
  couldn't believe he would renege again.
• 6:40
  A man is only as good as his word.
• 6:43
  Where is the on chain tracking? They're still working on it
• 6:46
  right? This is like a game.
• 6:48
  He must be laughing as he watches the next MSTR true North
• 6:53
  episode quote. Let's see how many minions yes
• 6:56
  me tonight. I would like to just see one of
• 6:59
  them say they were disappointed that he issued the guidance and
• 7:02
  then violated it in the space A space of a couple of weeks.
• 7:07
  I would like to at least say that it was a colossal F up to
• 7:11
  issue the guidance to begin with if he knew he might renege.
• 7:16
  Very harsh wording from Josh, Josh Mandel and he's making miss
• 7:22
  memes about it and MSTR mistrust Very, very harsh wording and he
• 7:28
  continues to say he's not a liar.
• 7:32
  He's he's a liar, not a Pansy. This is very it's not simply
• 7:36
  bitcoins words, not Nico's words.
• 7:38
  This is Josh Mandel. We're just covering what is
• 7:41
  being said on X and the investor reaction to this recent micro
• 7:47
  strategy policy shift. The head of the company said he
• 7:51
  would sell below 2.5 M NAV so I bought.
• 7:55
  He made this agreement with the shareholder at the live earnings
• 7:58
  release and then he sold below M NAV 2.5.
• 8:02
  Just because he made a post on X saying he was breaking the
• 8:05
  agreement doesn't mean he he isn't a cheat.
• 8:08
  Here's the good news. He also said he might buy back
• 8:12
  shares versus selling preferred when M NAV hits .5.
• 8:16
  Which is funny because those the the shares need to be sold in
• 8:20
  order to pay out returns to the preferred hold holders.
• 8:24
  Watch the sleigh of sleigh of hand now and see how the
• 8:27
  flywheel becomes the rhymes with.
• 8:30
  And yeah, he just posted a meme, so again, not this is not being
• 8:36
  well received by the investment community.
• 8:39
  Here is Fred Krueger. He says it.
• 8:41
  Feels like MSTR has lost an engine mid flight.
• 8:44
  The idea of issuing the strong guidance that no ATMs will
• 8:49
  happen unless M NAV is above 2.5 and then changing gears 2 weeks
• 8:54
  later is an unforced error. Ultimately this resulting and
• 8:59
  further M NAV compression for all Bitcoin treasury companies.
• 9:03
  It's really the worst of all worlds.
• 9:06
  Saying nothing would have been much preferable, and here's Alex
• 9:10
  Leishman. Alex Leishman is the CEO of
• 9:13
  River Financial, a a leading Bitcoin on ramp.
• 9:17
  He says a number of small cap Bitcoin treasury companies are
• 9:21
  now trading beneath the value of their Bitcoin holdings.
• 9:24
  I think this can be explained by insider selling liabilities on
• 9:29
  the balance sheet. Stock is less liquid than
• 9:31
  Bitcoin. Management team has shown no
• 9:34
  ability to grow Bitcoin per share.
• 9:36
  Buyers beware, he went on to say.
• 9:39
  I would say the market is already punished, punishing some
• 9:42
  of them. If the value of your company is
• 9:44
  less than the Bitcoin you hold, then you're operating business
• 9:48
  is perceived to have negative value.
• 9:50
  Now there's nuance here because there may be liabilities, but
• 9:54
  it's directionally true. His last comment is having a
• 9:57
  Bitcoin treasury company as a private company to preserve the
• 10:01
  earnings of a firm is a straightforward endeavor.
• 10:04
  Run a good business and buy Bitcoin with some of the
• 10:07
  profits. Going public with the Bitcoin
• 10:10
  treasury playbook is an entirely different animal.
• 10:13
  You need to be fundraising. You need to be a fundraising and
• 10:16
  finance wizard. Your core competency is no
• 10:20
  longer your operating business. That's just decoration.
• 10:24
  Your job is to spin a flywheel very few have ever spun.
• 10:28
  I don't think this ends well for the majority of people playing
• 10:32
  the game. Extremely harsh language from
• 10:36
  the community. But to be fair, before I add my
• 10:40
  points, let me play a clip of I believe of MicroStrategy CEO
• 10:45
  talking about the change in policy.
• 10:50
  So our equity guidance, I talked about the fact that we think
• 10:53
  MSTR is undervalued in some cases, perhaps significantly
• 10:57
  undervalued. And even though issuing equity
• 11:02
  anywhere above a 1.0 XM NAV is a creative to Bitcoin yield and
• 11:08
  Bitcoin gain, we will on a go forward basis be more
• 11:12
  disciplined about how we issue our micro strategy ATM.
• 11:17
  And here I want to provide guidelines to create more
• 11:20
  transparency with our shareholders, so you don't have
• 11:23
  to guess when a seller is going to tap the ATM, you'll know when
• 11:26
  we're going to utilize the ATM on a go forward basis.
• 11:30
  So first of all, below 1.0 XM NAV, we'll consider issuing
• 11:35
  credit to actually repurchase shares of micro strategy means
• 11:39
  we're trading below net asset value.
• 11:42
  And so it would make sense and be accretive to our shareholder
• 11:45
  base if we were to issue credit and buy back MSTR, the bar we're
• 11:49
  setting or issuing the ATM on a go forward basis at 2.5 XM NAV.
• 11:54
  And so that means then if you see our M NAV below 2.5 X, you
• 11:59
  would expect we would not issue our MSTRATM issue more equity
• 12:04
  for the purposes of buying Bitcoin.
• 12:06
  We would issue equity below 2.5 XM NAV to pay interest on our
• 12:11
  debt obligations, our convertible notes and also to
• 12:14
  fund preferred equity dividends. As you saw from Andrew earlier
• 12:18
  that amounts that we would have to issue compared to our asset
• 12:21
  base compared to amounts we've issued in the past and compared
• 12:24
  to our daily volume are are pretty small.
• 12:28
  When we get to 2.5 XM NAV and up to four XM NAV, we will
• 12:32
  opportunistically issue micro strategy equity to acquire
• 12:37
  Bitcoin and give you a sense 2 1/2 X M NAV to 4X M NAV.
• 12:44
  That's about 600 to $1000 of MSTR price.
• 12:48
  So there you have it. You heard it from the President
• 12:50
  and CEO of MicroStrategy himself kind of explaining, making it
• 12:54
  transparent. The strategy come depending on
• 12:58
  where the M NAV of of MicroStrategy currently is and
• 13:03
  what the different strategies are going to be and how they're
• 13:06
  going to plan accordingly. Now to answer the question to
• 13:10
  today's title of the video, do I think you should sell
• 13:13
  MicroStrategy? No, I think MicroStrategy is an
• 13:16
  incredibly solid company. They own 630,000 Bitcoin.
• 13:22
  I don't think they're going anywhere.
• 13:24
  Alex Leishman was talking about the necessity of someone having
• 13:29
  the the fundraising and finance, financing capability and genius.
• 13:37
  And obviously Saylor has. Proved.
• 13:40
  That where I think the risk remains.
• 13:42
  And I actually said this on stage at Baltic Honey Badger
• 13:46
  where I had the pleasure of moderating upon a panel with
• 13:48
  Peter Todd and Giacomo Zuko and the CEO of of of Bit Refill.
• 13:54
  And I said it, you know, because the name of the panel was
• 13:58
  unpopular, unpopular Bitcoin opinions.
• 14:02
  And I said, are, you know, Bitcoin treasury companies, the
• 14:06
  IC OS of this cycle? My personal opinion is that they
• 14:11
  are now once again, I'm repeating myself.
• 14:14
  Does this apply to MicroStrategy?
• 14:16
  No. Does this apply to Nakamoto?
• 14:19
  No. Does this apply to 21?
• 14:23
  No. Does this apply to the leading
• 14:25
  treasury companies in different countries like Metaplanet?
• 14:29
  No. But all the copycats that go
• 14:33
  further and further down the list, it does apply because they
• 14:38
  have to take on more risk, they have to take on more leverage.
• 14:44
  And once those dominoes start to fall, becomes a cascading
• 14:48
  effect. And you're starting to see that
• 14:50
  even with the price of Bitcoin going from $124,000 reaching an
• 14:56
  all time high to $113,000, which in the grand scheme of this
• 15:01
  isn't a big correction. Look at what's happening.
• 15:05
  Look at what's happening to the price of MicroStrategy.
• 15:07
  Look at what's happening in the confidence of MicroStrategy.
• 15:11
  Look at what's happening in terms of Microstrategies has to
• 15:17
  change its policy, right, obviously to protect itself.
• 15:21
  And then look at the reaction from investors.
• 15:25
  And this was just a 12,000% correction, which again, in the
• 15:30
  grand scheme of things, that bitcoins $113,000 price is not
• 15:35
  that big in percentage terms, right?
• 15:38
  So yeah, I mean, this is like. We we have.
• 15:45
  A pretty good record Opti tomorrow's Bitcoin use today.
• 15:50
  When this bear market does hit, I don't know if it's going to be
• 15:54
  in 2026. I don't know if it's going to be
• 15:56
  an extended bull market. But when this bear market does
• 15:59
  hit, these treasury companies, specifically the smaller ones
• 16:03
  like Alex Leishman just pointed out that are already trading
• 16:07
  below their M NAV. It doesn't make sense to own a
• 16:10
  treasury company at that point. The whole point of the M NAV is
• 16:14
  you're holding, you're holding a company that is valued at more
• 16:22
  than their Bitcoin holdings, so you're outperforming Bitcoin.
• 16:26
  That is the whole purpose of buying a Bitcoin treasury
• 16:30
  company. Because if you're not if, if
• 16:32
  that's not the purpose, then why buy the Bitcoin treasury company
• 16:35
  when you can just buy Bitcoin, right?
• 16:37
  So. People are using this to grow
• 16:39
  their Bitcoin stack outperform Bitcoin, which tends to happen
• 16:42
  in in in Bitcoin bull market cycles.
• 16:45
  Every cycle it's different. In 2017 it was the Icos, in 2021
• 16:50
  it was the layer ones, and in 2025 it's the Bitcoin treasury
• 16:54
  company. So every cycle there's this
• 16:56
  thing that outperforms Bitcoin in the short term, but then when
• 17:02
  the bear market inevitably hits A reckoning, a great reckoning
• 17:07
  is coming. Now.
• 17:08
  I think we're getting a small taste of it now.
• 17:11
  Do I think the bull market is over?
• 17:13
  I don't think so. And the reason for that is we
• 17:16
  have not entered A euphoria face.
• 17:19
  In fact, people are disillusioned with Bitcoin.
• 17:22
  Retail is not interested with Bitcoin.
• 17:24
  We have incredibly good news happening in the regulatory side
• 17:29
  of things. So to summarize, summarize it
• 17:33
  all up, weave it back in, then pass it on to Opti and of course
• 17:37
  our legendary guest today, the CEO of SAS Mining himself.
• 17:41
  We got Kent in the house. Do.
• 17:44
  You do I think you should sell a MicroStrategy?
• 17:46
  No, I think MicroStrategy is a fantastic company.
• 17:49
  Obviously, nothing replaces spot Bitcoin in self custody, but do
• 17:54
  I think owning a smaller Bitcoin treasury company that's not in
• 17:59
  the top three, do I think that's a good idea?
• 18:03
  Absolutely not. In fact, they might be the next
• 18:07
  catalyst for the next bull bear market to begin.
• 18:11
  Opti, what's your take? Yeah, great breakdown.
• 18:14
  Because a disclaimer here, you know, This is why I just buy
• 18:18
  Bitcoin because this is a lot more financial complications
• 18:22
  than than I understand it's way above my pay grade here.
• 18:26
  But I think the main take away here is not that MicroStrategy
• 18:31
  is at risk of basically being a rug pool or blowing up here.
• 18:36
  I I think he's the one that literally, I forget what the
• 18:39
  number was, but he was saying a while ago, like his liquidation
• 18:41
  price is below like the 2021 all time high.
• 18:47
  I think it was like down all the way to like 20 K like it's
• 18:49
  something ridiculous. So I don't think sailors going
• 18:52
  to get liquidated here. Like I don't think even if we go
• 18:56
  into a bear market right now currently that he would have any
• 18:59
  issues unless it went, you know, like something extremely low
• 19:03
  below last, you know, 2 bear markets ago.
• 19:06
  So I don't think there's a problem with strategy blowing up
• 19:08
  here. What I think is really going on
• 19:10
  here, he's really the Josh Mandel stuff.
• 19:13
  Look, Sailor did kind of, you know, for lack of better terms,
• 19:16
  go back on what he said he would never do literally a month ago.
• 19:20
  But I again, I think he knows what he's doing and I think he's
• 19:23
  doing this stuff in the face of what's going on.
• 19:26
  And it really reminds me of, I forget who was saying this a
• 19:30
  couple of weeks ago, but it's this idea that Wall Street is
• 19:33
  looking at what Sailor is doing with strategy and they're
• 19:36
  gunning for him. It's like it's basically like
• 19:38
  trying to, you know, liquidate shorts on on the Bitcoin price
• 19:41
  price. This is just like a leverage
• 19:43
  play. They don't want to see strategy
• 19:45
  succeed. And so right now, I think what
• 19:47
  is going on is they are actively trying to kind of mess up his
• 19:51
  stock price so that more people kind of stay away.
• 19:54
  Because if Sailor does continue to succeed right now, it really
• 19:58
  is going to be, you know, like cake on on Wall Street's face
• 20:02
  here. They've been telling us for
• 20:03
  years, bitcoins trash. They've been telling us for
• 20:05
  years not to buy Bitcoin. Sailor comes out, literally
• 20:08
  blows everyone out of the water and they're pretty much hunting.
• 20:11
  Right now, like they are market hunting right now on strategy
• 20:15
  now. It is interesting to see a lot
• 20:16
  of Bitcoiners kind of flip. And like Nico, you said it, I
• 20:20
  think what is happening is people are essentially losing
• 20:23
  trust in what sailors doing. Maybe, maybe sailors pushed a
• 20:27
  little hard and now people that are shareholders in
• 20:29
  MicroStrategy are starting to look at this and they're like
• 20:32
  something's funny going on now. Is that a culmination of sailor
• 20:35
  actually doing something nefarious?
• 20:37
  I don't think so. I think what is going on really
• 20:40
  is the Bitcoin price guy. Everything revolves around the
• 20:42
  Bitcoin price. And you, if you've been in
• 20:44
  Bitcoin long enough, you see this happen all the time.
• 20:48
  When the price kind of does this stagnation or it kind of dips a
• 20:51
  little bit, everyone starts attacking each other and that's
• 20:54
  just like part of the market. That's just what you have to
• 20:56
  deal with. And I think right now, since we
• 20:59
  are moving into bigger numbers, we are moving into a bigger
• 21:02
  arena, there is a lot more at stake.
• 21:05
  I think we are starting to see kind of the infighting and
• 21:08
  people essentially eating themselves right now.
• 21:11
  Now again you. Know.
• 21:13
  What? I didn't even say anything.
• 21:15
  I said eating each other. That's that's that's minor.
• 21:18
  Anyways, I think you you are starting.
• 21:22
  More in a metaphoric sense. What is?
• 21:24
  What is that? That was a.
• 21:25
  Metaphor. What are we talking about here?
• 21:28
  I think, I think you're seeing that there is a lot of concern
• 21:32
  right now on where we are in the cycle and like I said yesterday
• 21:36
  does feel kind of like a bear traps playing out.
• 21:38
  I was even telling Kent before the show.
• 21:40
  I'm like, look, I'm as bullish as anyone, but I am starting to
• 21:44
  get a little nervous on what's going on.
• 21:46
  It is almost feeling a little double toppy here and maybe this
• 21:50
  is just my PTSD kind of, you know, showing its head right now
• 21:54
  based on the last cycle. But I really don't think there
• 21:58
  is anything to be concerned with what Sailor's done.
• 22:01
  Again, he has set up his financials at MicroStrategy to
• 22:05
  pretty much withstand anything like damn near everything
• 22:08
  besides some catastrophic Black Swan.
• 22:10
  It looks like strategy is going to be able to kind of, you know,
• 22:14
  weather the storm. So I, I think what we're seeing
• 22:17
  is, is maybe that like distrust because he did kind of go back
• 22:21
  on what he said, though he has been saying for a while at his
• 22:24
  discretion. So I, I think that I think what
• 22:28
  is happening is sailors probably on the defensive right now and
• 22:32
  he's seeing like they are trying to kind of dump the strategy
• 22:37
  stock right now, the stock price right now.
• 22:39
  And he's, he, you know, he's fighting for his life here.
• 22:42
  And I, I think he's going to win at the end, to be honest, like I
• 22:45
  think he's going to win. But This is why I hold Bitcoin
• 22:48
  because I know I'm not smart enough to fully understand
• 22:51
  everything going on. So I just buy Bitcoin.
• 22:54
  I just hold Bitcoin. I take it into self custody
• 22:57
  because when you buy these products, there is more risk and
• 23:01
  you have to understand that risk.
• 23:03
  And you know, I haven't done enough study to fully understand
• 23:07
  what sailors been doing. I've been trying to kind of
• 23:09
  catch up to this. But again, I've learned through
• 23:11
  about the traditional financial system through Bitcoin.
• 23:14
  So, you know, I'm still kind of catching up on exactly what he's
• 23:17
  doing, but I think his products are being tailored for, for
• 23:21
  something that, you know, we don't really see going on right
• 23:24
  now. Maybe you kind of understand
• 23:26
  what he's doing on a very like rudimentary level.
• 23:28
  But I, I don't think there's AI, don't think there's any issue
• 23:31
  here with strategy, but it is interesting to see kind of a lot
• 23:35
  of shareholders be like, yo, this is feeling funny.
• 23:38
  I don't know if you guys saw on Twitter, but we've seen some
• 23:40
  notorious shit corners come out and say strategy's a Ponzi
• 23:43
  scheme. And then like 3 hours later, he
• 23:45
  had an official lawyer, you know, lawyer PR readout.
• 23:50
  So it does seem like people are being paid to fudge strategy,
• 23:53
  which makes me think that this is kind of a defensive move from
• 23:57
  Sailor himself. Yeah, and and sailors endured
• 24:00
  worse guys like back in I never forget.
• 24:03
  Back at I can't I believe you were there at Pacific Bitcoin
• 24:07
  2021 or 2022 in Los Angeles. I never forget that Sailor was
• 24:14
  paying his price of tuition. This is the first time that
• 24:17
  MicroStrategy bought exposure to Bitcoin and they were down like
• 24:21
  50 to 60% on their investment. That Sailor was down billions of
• 24:25
  dollars. And I remember he was sitting in
• 24:26
  the VIP section in the front row staying silent and just watching
• 24:31
  every single one of the presentations.
• 24:33
  And then two or three years later when the bull market
• 24:36
  started to pick up again, the company 25X in market cap and 25
• 24:41
  XI mean a 25 bagger, you know, over a short period of time.
• 24:46
  So sailor, you know, he's he's he's a he's a veteran in this.
• 24:51
  He's been here before. He's been in these situations
• 24:54
  before. And this is volatility.
• 24:56
  This comes with the volatility. This comes with buying exposure
• 25:01
  to the Bitcoin treasury place. It comes with the upside of
• 25:05
  potentially outperforming Bitcoin, but it also comes with
• 25:08
  the downside of potentially not outperforming Bitcoin and ending
• 25:13
  up with with less Bitcoin, which again goes with what Opti
• 25:17
  saying. Sometimes it's just better to
• 25:19
  stay humble, stack sat, stay solvent, buy Bitcoin, mine
• 25:24
  Bitcoin and put that Bitcoin into self custody.
• 25:26
  Kent, what are your thoughts on this, my friend?
• 25:28
  Welcome. Welcome to the show.
• 25:31
  Any thanks? Good to be here boys.
• 25:33
  So I think the, the quick thing is, you know, you, you play Fiat
• 25:38
  games, you win Fiat prizes, right?
• 25:41
  And I think this is my third cycle and I am bored as F with
• 25:47
  the Bitcoin treasury companies. I just find this the most boring
• 25:50
  cycle guys. And granted, I'm also in the
• 25:53
  mining side of things. So I go out and find energy to
• 25:57
  figure out how people can mine and acquire Bitcoin the the way
• 26:00
  Satoshi stacked his sets, right? So I'm I'm very much like a
• 26:04
  brother from another mother Opti, when you were saying, you
• 26:07
  know, not the best guy to ask about this stuff, but at the end
• 26:10
  of the day, I will make it just a couple of just high level
• 26:12
  points, right? First of all, this is a
• 26:15
  centralized investment. Bitcoin is not.
• 26:18
  And I think, you know, the sailor is the sovereign of his
• 26:21
  Kingdom here. He decided to change the rules.
• 26:23
  I wouldn't speculate as to why he did that, but he's the
• 26:26
  sovereign, right? And and that's the risk you have
• 26:28
  with investing in something you don't really control.
• 26:30
  Bitcoin is for enemies and and I feel a much better investment as
• 26:35
  a result. Secondly, you know, when I look
• 26:39
  at the game that's being played, I I think the Bitcoin community
• 26:42
  is just completely out of its depths.
• 26:44
  Wall Street has been a specialized in playing a game of
• 26:48
  gotcha for hundreds of years. And I think that you know when
• 26:52
  when you don't recognize who the sucker in the room is, you're
• 26:55
  probably the sucker. And so I feel like I like that.
• 26:57
  So I'm going to stay out of that game.
• 26:59
  But that whole game itself is meant for, you know, basically
• 27:04
  picking Fiat off of one another. And I think it's going to end in
• 27:08
  some devastation. To your point, Nico, I
• 27:10
  completely agree. It feels like the ICO era with
• 27:14
  all the people that aren't, you know, those top dogs, you know,
• 27:19
  the other 80% are going to get washed out and they'll be
• 27:21
  consolidation and the other 20%. So, you know, I, I'm not
• 27:25
  interested in playing Fiat games and earning Fiat prizes.
• 27:28
  I'm, I'm interested in stacking stats, helping people stack
• 27:31
  stats the way Satoshi did through mining them.
• 27:33
  And you know, I, I, I hope it's less boring and I'll give you 1
• 27:37
  thesis that I've had for a little while.
• 27:39
  Let's see if it plays out. It'll be my thesis until it
• 27:41
  doesn't. But it seems like the last cycle
• 27:43
  was D5 degeneracy blew us up. You know, the whole Ethereum,
• 27:48
  you know, Solano, like all that, all that BS.
• 27:52
  The cycle before that was ICO degeneracy.
• 27:56
  This cycle feels like it's stratified degeneracy.
• 27:59
  It's going to blow us up. And I feel like the next cycle
• 28:01
  is going to be sovereign degeneracy that'll blow us up.
• 28:05
  And then and then we'll be off to the races and in a grand new
• 28:08
  world. But that's, that's my current
• 28:10
  take on things. And I'm just going to stay away
• 28:12
  and let let let the house burn itself down.
• 28:14
  Absolutely guys, Bitcoin in self custody, you will be OK and you
• 28:20
  know to each of their own guys, we at the end of the day, guys,
• 28:24
  we are not we are we are freedom Maxis at heart.
• 28:28
  So you have every right to do whatever you want with your
• 28:32
  money. If you want to buy and what's
• 28:33
  the latest Pepe or whatever doge or you know or you know
• 28:39
  whatever. If you want to do that with with
• 28:41
  your money, that's fine. You you have every right to set
• 28:44
  your money on fire. That is completely your right.
• 28:46
  What we advocate for on Simply Bitcoin is just buy Bitcoin, put
• 28:50
  in self custody. Your life will get progressively
• 28:53
  better over time as the prices of goods get cheaper for you
• 28:56
  over time because you're living on a deflationary unit.
• 29:00
  And that's just a reality, right?
• 29:02
  That's what we advocate for. Maybe we're simple minded, maybe
• 29:05
  we're missing these these huge gains.
• 29:07
  But anyways, guys, before we jump into today's show, I do
• 29:11
  want to give an incredibly special shout out to Simply
• 29:16
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  What are you waiting for? Go to bitcoinwell.com/simply
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  today and stay tuned to the end of the show where we're will
• 30:24
  where we will be giving away some Satoshi's.
• 30:28
  So guys, no more delay. Let's start the show.
• 30:31
  We will be right back in just a second.
• 30:40
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  and use promo code simply to get 15% off anything on the Stamp
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  se-ed.com store. All right, everybody, we are
• 31:54
  back, Opti. I can't, I don't have control
• 31:57
  over the QR code. Could you pull that down?
• 32:00
  At the time of recording, the Bitcoin price is $113,160 block
• 32:05
  height 910,769 sats per dollar, 884 sats per dollar Market cap 2
• 32:14
  point 2.25 trillion Bitcoin versus gold market cap 9.59%
• 32:21
  decline from all time high -9.1%.
• 32:24
  So if you're buying Bitcoin right now, you're getting it at
• 32:27
  a 10% discount. That's a nice discount.
• 32:30
  You can get yourself on Bitcoin right now and the realized
• 32:33
  monetary inflation is sitting at .84%.
• 32:38
  Now the topic I want to talk about today again, we're we're
• 32:43
  freaking out a little bit. Bitcoin goes down 10%.
• 32:46
  People are saying, Oh my God, is the bear market here is it's
• 32:48
  coming? Is it back?
• 32:50
  What I will say is I don't know guys, I, I don't, I don't, I
• 32:55
  don't feel the euphoria. I never felt the euphoria.
• 32:57
  I never saw the mania. And here's Svetsky and he's
• 33:05
  quote tweeting, this has got to be the weakest bull run in the
• 33:09
  history of BTCBTC was at 97 K in November of last year.
• 33:15
  And here we are at 116 K almost a year later in a bull run.
• 33:21
  Svetsky replies. This is a good sign.
• 33:24
  People don't actually realize that the bull run hasn't started
• 33:27
  yet. And I mean, I've said this, I
• 33:30
  actually posted this and the tweet I think got 1400 likes.
• 33:34
  So it clearly resonated with a lot of people.
• 33:37
  And I said, guys, like, we're not in a bull run right now.
• 33:41
  Like Trump's inauguration, the price of Bitcoin was at
• 33:44
  $109,000, we're at $113,000. Eight months later, 8 months,
• 33:53
  that's a $4000 increase. What, what type of BS bull run
• 33:58
  is this? There's this isn't a bull run.
• 34:02
  This isn't a bull run. So like, again, you know, you
• 34:05
  kind of need a bull run to enter into a bear, a bear market,
• 34:10
  right? You kind of need the bulls to
• 34:12
  have their have a you kind of need that mania.
• 34:14
  You kind of need that, that run up of the price.
• 34:16
  Now, to be fair, to be fair, we did go from like 16 K, which I
• 34:21
  believe was the bottom to 125 K over a span of like 2 years,
• 34:25
  right? But it was a slow crawl up,
• 34:28
  right? And over the last year, it's
• 34:30
  been basically a crap. Now what I told you guys
• 34:33
  yesterday and I'm repeating myself again today is like the
• 34:39
  longer Bitcoin crab solid eight word that I just completely make
• 34:44
  up made-up. But it makes sense if you know
• 34:47
  what I'm talking about, the stronger the foundation so that
• 34:53
  when we eventually do run up, it's it it won't correct as bad
• 35:00
  because what happens with the manias?
• 35:02
  Is that if it if? Bitcoin shoots up from 113,000
• 35:06
  to half a million in six months. The correction on that, it's
• 35:11
  going to be like an 80% correction.
• 35:14
  Opti. People are saying I'm cutting
• 35:15
  out. How's my audio?
• 35:16
  Now you sound good to me. Apparently they just need to
• 35:19
  refresh the page. It's something weird happened on
• 35:21
  YouTube. So anyways, and I appreciate the
• 35:25
  Super chat. Ron P Thank you for the $10 cold
• 35:28
  storage. This is the way.
• 35:29
  I completely agree. Not your keys, not your cheese.
• 35:32
  Now moving on to the next post, do you think the four year cycle
• 35:36
  is over and here it is comparing the different cycles where we
• 35:42
  are, we are right on track. We are right on track, right
• 35:47
  compared to every other cycle. In fact, in 2017 we are higher
• 35:53
  comparatively because this. Adjusts to of course the prices
• 35:57
  and all that stuff comparatively.
• 36:00
  We're right on track with every other cycle in Bitcoin's
• 36:03
  history, so again, this is not out of the norm.
• 36:06
  Another reminder that I'll give you guys.
• 36:08
  It is quite normal in bull runs to have 20 to 30% corrections
• 36:14
  back in the day. And when me and Opti got in the
• 36:17
  game 20/16/2017, dude, the corrections were like 50%.
• 36:23
  They were effing gnarly bro. They were crazy.
• 36:26
  And they happened like in like a matter of a month, right?
• 36:29
  So you know, a 10% correction, like I'll say like, like dude,
• 36:34
  you know, make yourself stronger buttercup, you sweat.
• 36:40
  You're not used to this. What's going on with you guys
• 36:45
  anyhow? So I love, I love this kind of
• 36:49
  animation that APSK 32 designed and it kind of breaks it down.
• 36:54
  Bitcoin power curve time contours.
• 36:56
  And he again, this is how he compares the different cycles.
• 37:00
  And as you can see, if you lay it out, ladies and gentlemen,
• 37:03
  like we're right on track. And again, it shows if Bitcoin
• 37:07
  performs to previous cycles. So if it performs based on the
• 37:11
  20/17/2013 cycle, it would hit around 200,000.
• 37:16
  If it performed based on the 20/20/21 cycle would hit between
• 37:20
  202150K. And if it performed like 2017,
• 37:24
  comparatively, it would hit closer to $300,000.
• 37:28
  So we're right on track. We are right on track.
• 37:31
  And historically, another thing that I'll say before I pass it
• 37:34
  on to Opt Kent is Septembers historically for Bitcoin have
• 37:40
  not been so good. Historically, Septembers have
• 37:45
  been down months. You could see.
• 37:48
  Don't take my word for it. Don't trust verify.
• 37:50
  Take a look at it. Take a look at September Bitcoin
• 37:53
  performance in September. Throughout the years it's tended
• 37:57
  to dump Kent. What are your thoughts on this,
• 37:59
  my friend? I know yet you're in the mining
• 38:02
  utopia. I know that you've reached
• 38:04
  mining Bitcoin Zen and all you care about is deploying here.
• 38:09
  I have to be optic. You make me full screen.
• 38:12
  All you care about is deploying the hash rates and making the
• 38:17
  Bitcoin network stronger and tapping into those stranded
• 38:21
  energy sources, and you're tapped in to the Bitcoin mining
• 38:26
  energy ecosystem that is distributed worldwide.
• 38:30
  And I know that you're not really paying attention to this
• 38:32
  stuff, but I want to get your thoughts anyway, Kent.
• 38:37
  Yeah, you got me, bro. I'm just totally send out at all
• 38:39
  times. I am the network.
• 38:41
  No total, total kidding. You know, I've I've, I've mind
• 38:45
  melded with the network. Not at all, not at all.
• 38:48
  So my thoughts on this are like, so for the first time in the
• 38:52
  last couple months, I've actually started to lean
• 38:54
  towards, well, maybe the cycle is lengthening.
• 38:57
  You know, I, I think all these Fiat games that are going on
• 39:01
  with the Bitcoin treasury companies, they are changing
• 39:03
  things. It's a new dynamic and every
• 39:06
  single cycle is being the third one I've been in.
• 39:08
  I got involved about the same time you, you, you boys both did
• 39:12
  and, and this cycle is like the others in that every cycle
• 39:16
  there's some there's a new dynamic that you sort of have to
• 39:18
  account for and sort of figure out where it's going.
• 39:20
  And, and it sort of feels like every cycle you sort of tricked
• 39:24
  as to when it's really going to break up.
• 39:26
  But the way I'm currently thinking about it is if we don't
• 39:29
  start to get a euphoria run by the end of September, then my
• 39:33
  thesis of like us hitting this the same four year cycle, which
• 39:36
  should be October, November peak is going to be wrong.
• 39:40
  And I don't see without euphoria, I don't see a, a
• 39:44
  serious bear market incoming, just straight up.
• 39:46
  So as a result, that means to me, it's going to be a
• 39:50
  lengthening cycle. So what basically next couple
• 39:53
  months are going to are going to play it out for me if we're if
• 39:56
  we're going to do the typical four year price cycle or not.
• 39:59
  And to be fair, every other cycle so far has had euphoria
• 40:02
  moments before this. And that's what feels different
• 40:05
  this cycle is it's just been a slow grind up and to the right.
• 40:09
  And we haven't had those pockets of euphoria and those wild
• 40:12
  volatile pull backs along the way.
• 40:14
  I think what the biggest pull back so far is like 20% in the
• 40:18
  last two years. I mean, it's been very muted.
• 40:21
  And that's a weird dynamic and I don't know exactly how it plays
• 40:23
  out, but it's the four year price cycle until it isn't.
• 40:27
  Absolutely. Let's see.
• 40:28
  We're going to find out, ladies and gentlemen, in the next.
• 40:33
  Exactly. We've said this yesterday, Ken,
• 40:35
  Actually, I'm, I'm very, very glad we're kind of aligned in
• 40:37
  this, in this thesis. We're going to find out in the
• 40:42
  next this the, the last part of this year, whether the Bitcoin
• 40:46
  cycles are intact or are we heading into uncharted
• 40:50
  territory. We're about to find out if that
• 40:53
  is the case or not. Opti, what's your quick take?
• 40:58
  Yeah. So I mean, what do I know what's
• 41:01
  going on with the price, right? I'm, I'm watching it like
• 41:04
  everyone else. I do have this a similar
• 41:08
  sentiment to kind of what Stetsky had.
• 41:10
  It does feel, and I, and I've been saying this for a while,
• 41:12
  like Q3Q4 is going to be bullish and I'm, I'm still convicted on
• 41:17
  that, that kind of perspective. But as I said earlier, and I, I
• 41:21
  still have my friends DM ING me telling me their chart boy
• 41:24
  stuff. It's, it's going down, bro, if
• 41:26
  we close where we are now by the end of the week, the weekly's
• 41:30
  looking horrible, you know, anyways, all that to say,
• 41:32
  essentially what I said a minute ago, it's like I am starting to
• 41:36
  get a little nervous on what's going on with the price action
• 41:38
  here because I, I do have the 2021 PTSD still.
• 41:42
  And you know, you get a little, you get a little hype when the
• 41:45
  price goes up and then you get some really strong kind of
• 41:48
  movements down and you're like, oh man, is it over?
• 41:50
  Like I, I say it ain't so say it's not over, but I do like
• 41:54
  some hopium stuff on Twitter. I, I do follow some, you know,
• 41:58
  TA you guys some analysis stuff just just for like shits and
• 42:01
  giggles. And from the kind of the
• 42:04
  indicators and stuff that I'm seeing, a lot of people are
• 42:06
  saying maybe this is just my bias.
• 42:08
  Maybe I'm just confirming my bias.
• 42:10
  I want, I want to believe that we're going to get a very strong
• 42:14
  end of the year. There's, there's some, you know,
• 42:17
  you can make a case that the bull run hasn't started.
• 42:19
  You can make the case that we are about to RIP and we are
• 42:21
  going to go a lot higher. And so I don't know what do I
• 42:25
  know? I'm just here, you know,
• 42:28
  covering the Bitcoin news and who knows what's going to happen
• 42:31
  with the price. But if it does go down, I guess
• 42:34
  you know well, I'm I'm sure the bear market won't be as long and
• 42:37
  prolonged as it's been in the past, considering all of the new
• 42:40
  attention that's Bitcoin has been getting.
• 42:43
  And if that's the case, we get some cheap sets or as we kind of
• 42:47
  been saying, we really won't know until the end of the year
• 42:50
  what is going on or rather maybe you know the start of Q3, which
• 42:53
  is September 30th. So if what Kent is saying and we
• 42:58
  get this like sideways action, this very boring stepwise
• 43:01
  function that would fundamentally change what's
• 43:03
  going on in the, the market structure of Bitcoin.
• 43:07
  And you could probably attribute that to the new entrance in the
• 43:10
  space. And I, I wouldn't be mad about
• 43:12
  some kind of sideways action here.
• 43:14
  I think I have the, you know, 2 PTSD's playing at the same time,
• 43:18
  the 2021 double top and then that bear market that followed.
• 43:22
  And I'm like, that was just brutal to build a company
• 43:24
  through. So please can we not do that
• 43:26
  again? Can the can the Bitcoin God's
• 43:28
  here price God make sure that this pumps please, you know,
• 43:31
  like just please me familia that that was rough.
• 43:35
  Oh, man. All right, everybody, it's going
• 43:37
  to be an incredible show. We still got so much stuff to
• 43:39
  cover. We got Kent in the house, ladies
• 43:43
  and gentlemen, and we're going to be talking about bringing
• 43:47
  Bitcoin back to its roots. Ladies and gentlemen, there was
• 43:50
  once a day that the there was one.
• 43:53
  Once Upon a time, there was a day that the only way that you
• 43:57
  could acquire Bitcoin was by mining it.
• 44:00
  Those days are long, long gone. We have forgotten the past and
• 44:04
  it might be a good idea to to to go back to our roots.
• 44:08
  So we're going to talk to Kent about just that SAS mining,
• 44:12
  Bitcoin mining as a service, you got to get hold of those wild,
• 44:16
  wild sats. So we're going to talk about
• 44:18
  during the cult, we're going to talk about that during the
• 44:20
  culture segment and then during the news segment.
• 44:23
  Bo Hines, That's right. The White House advisor, the
• 44:28
  White House to be specific, the White House Crypto Council
• 44:31
  executive director that resigns 3 weeks ago has officially
• 44:37
  joined Tether. This is huge, massive news.
• 44:41
  We're going to cover all the details, the analysis right
• 44:44
  after our break. We'll be right back in just a
• 44:47
  second. I want to give a shout out to
• 44:50
  our partner Ledin, the leader in Bitcoin backed loans.
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• 46:39
  All right everybody, we are back.
• 46:41
  So what is the breaking news? Breaking news, this is Bo Hines
• 46:46
  own personal X account. Thrilled to join Tether.
• 46:50
  Thanks to Paulo, the CEO of Tether and the team for the warm
• 46:54
  welcome. Excited to help build an
• 46:57
  ecosystem of digital asset products that set the standard
• 47:01
  for compliance and innovation, empowering US consumers and
• 47:05
  reshaping our financial system. The best is yet to come.
• 47:11
  Paolo, the CEO of of Tether also talks about this and he says
• 47:16
  Tether hires Bo Hines as strategy advisor for digital
• 47:20
  assets and US expansion. Bo has demonstrated incredible
• 47:24
  leadership within the US administration, where he was
• 47:27
  instrumental in advancing initiatives to foster innovation
• 47:31
  in digital assets, develop clear guardrails for stablecoin
• 47:35
  issuers, and build collaborative relationship friendships between
• 47:39
  government and the blockchain industry.
• 47:41
  On behalf of the company, we are all thrilled on his decision to
• 47:45
  join our organization and to contribute to building our once
• 47:49
  in a century company. Welcome, Bo.
• 47:53
  So what is the significance of this news?
• 47:58
  Reuters even wrote an article about it.
• 48:01
  So I have a breakdown for you guys.
• 48:03
  Tether is the world's largest stable coin issuer, and they
• 48:08
  just hired Bo Hines, former White House crypto advisor.
• 48:12
  And it's more significant than it looks.
• 48:14
  Heinz wasn't just any bureaucrat.
• 48:17
  He helped shape major US crypto policy, including the Genius
• 48:21
  Act, a framework for stable coin regulation, and was a key player
• 48:25
  in the White House Digital Asset strategy.
• 48:27
  Now he's moving straight from the government into the private
• 48:31
  sector. Well, who where where he'll
• 48:34
  steer Tethers US expansion. So what does this mean?
• 48:38
  First, it shows Tether is serious about Washington.
• 48:41
  They're not just fighting regulation anymore.
• 48:43
  They're embedding themselves inside the process.
• 48:46
  That's right, the Tether guys follow.
• 48:49
  And and Giancarlo are hardcore bitcoiners.
• 48:53
  Yes, tab tethers a stable coin, but in their hearts of hearts,
• 48:58
  they are Bitcoin Maxis. Never forget that with Heinz on
• 49:03
  board, Tether gains direct access to the same playbook he
• 49:07
  used to design the rules. Second, it's proof that the
• 49:11
  revolving door in Washington, something we usually associate
• 49:15
  with the defense industry, is now alive in the crypto and
• 49:19
  Bitcoin industry. For decade, Pentagon insiders
• 49:23
  would leave the government to work for defense contractors.
• 49:26
  Now we're seeing the same pattern in digital assets
• 49:29
  regulators and policy architects stepping into private firms that
• 49:34
  stand to benefit from the very rules they once drafted.
• 49:38
  This has two implications. On one hand, it gives Tether
• 49:42
  powerful influence and legitimacy in the US market,
• 49:46
  potentially paving way for a regulated dollar back stable
• 49:49
  coin roll pull out in the coming year.
• 49:52
  On the other hand, it raises real questions about
• 49:55
  concentration of power, whether regulation is being shaped to
• 49:59
  serve the public or the biggest player in the industry.
• 50:02
  The bottom line is Tethers move isn't just a hire.
• 50:05
  It marks a new phase where crypto Bitcoin isn't an outsider
• 50:10
  industry anymore. It's playing Washington's oldest
• 50:13
  and most effective game. And this is what I keep echoing
• 50:17
  to you guys and repeating myself over and over about over and
• 50:21
  over again. If you're not in the room,
• 50:23
  you're not in the deal. This is how the traditional
• 50:26
  financial system works too. As soon as OK, all of the last
• 50:32
  treasury secretaries, right? Where do you think they came
• 50:36
  from? They came from Wall Street.
• 50:38
  After they're done being Treasury Secretary, where do you
• 50:41
  think they go back? They go to Wall Street.
• 50:45
  So and then what do you think happens while they're in
• 50:48
  government? They probably set up certain
• 50:51
  types of regulations, right, that, you know, might benefit
• 50:55
  the the previous firms that they were with, or they might set up
• 51:00
  a regulation that will benefit them once they get out of
• 51:04
  office. And it seems that same revolving
• 51:06
  door is now applying to our industry.
• 51:09
  Now you would say, OK, but Nico, that's terrible.
• 51:12
  Like like, you know, like, like this is like this is this is
• 51:17
  what we've all complained about. No, ladies, ladies and
• 51:20
  gentlemen, because now we are part of the system itself.
• 51:23
  Now we are literally infiltrating the US government
• 51:27
  in a legal manner and we have Bitcoiners that are representing
• 51:32
  the interests of, we have Bitcoiners in office, in
• 51:37
  regulatory positions that are representing the interest and
• 51:41
  they have power that are representing the interests of
• 51:44
  Bitcoiners all around the United States.
• 51:46
  The United States also leads the world when it comes to
• 51:50
  innovation and regulation. So if the United States
• 51:54
  continues down this path, other countries will follow because if
• 51:58
  they don't follow, they will get left behind.
• 52:01
  This was a, this was a major motivation as to why Trump was
• 52:05
  so open to Bitcoin in the 1st place.
• 52:09
  I'm paraphrasing here, but he basically said, listen, if we
• 52:12
  don't get ahead with Bitcoin and AI, China will, right?
• 52:18
  So this is the game theory playing, playing out and this is
• 52:22
  our industry entrenching itself in Washington, DC, which at the
• 52:27
  end of the day, from a regulatory perspective is going
• 52:31
  to be very, very beneficial for you.
• 52:35
  And I know it has, like, all these, like, negative
• 52:40
  associations with it because you've heard that phrase, that
• 52:44
  revolving door in Washington, but it's always related to Wall
• 52:48
  Street. It's always related to, you
• 52:50
  know, the defense industry. And if you're not an insider in
• 52:54
  those industries, you're not benefiting from this.
• 52:58
  But the beauty of Bitcoin is I've told you guys and this is
• 53:01
  something that Max Kaiser always says and I'm officially
• 53:05
  nominating Bo Hines for the Bitcoin employee of the year for
• 53:09
  August of 2025, right? The Bitcoin incentives are so
• 53:14
  that Michael Saylors incentives are the same as the pleb that
• 53:19
  owns .001 Bitcoin. We all want Bitcoin to go up and
• 53:24
  we all benefit equally from Bitcoin going up, and that is in
• 53:29
  stark contrast with Wall Street, and that is in stark contrast
• 53:33
  with the defense industry. That only benefits a few elite
• 53:37
  insiders. Anyways, that's my summary of
• 53:40
  today's news. Kent.
• 53:41
  I want to get your thoughts then Opti.
• 53:45
  Yeah, man, I think Tether is one of, if not the most important
• 53:49
  player in our ecosystem. And I'll explain why, because
• 53:52
  what I what I see, and I've lived outside the US for more
• 53:54
  than a decade now, is the dollar is the number one brand on the
• 53:58
  planet, full stop. Everybody outside the US wants
• 54:02
  the dollar. That's hard to understand if you
• 54:04
  live inside the US, just how well branded the dollar itself
• 54:08
  is. And what I see is that USDT
• 54:10
  Tether is an upgrade in dollar technology for everybody outside
• 54:15
  the US. So as a result, it's becoming
• 54:18
  the next euro dollar system and the federal government is going
• 54:21
  to be able to sell more debt to keep alive the dollar system.
• 54:24
  So I think the consequence of Tether right now cannot be
• 54:28
  understated. I think actually we're going to
• 54:30
  see other Fiat currencies topple as a result of Tether getting a
• 54:34
  pass. And So what Bo Hines has done,
• 54:37
  yes, revolving door, I'm going to disagree with you.
• 54:39
  I don't like revolving doors. I don't care if it's crypto,
• 54:42
  defense industry, Pharmaceutical industry or whatever.
• 54:44
  I think it's a grift. It sucks.
• 54:46
  We should get rid of it completely.
• 54:47
  I don't know how to either. So it kind of is what it is.
• 54:50
  And this might be something we have to accept and live with,
• 54:53
  but I think it sucks. But I think what Bo Lyons did
• 54:56
  was incredibly important for all of us in the industry, which is
• 55:00
  ultimately setting up the the the major showdown that's going
• 55:03
  to happen. Yes, we're putting Bitcoiners
• 55:05
  closer to the government and the seats of power through all these
• 55:08
  actions to your point, Nico, and we're setting up the ultimate
• 55:11
  showdown, which is green versus orange, the dollar versus
• 55:14
  Bitcoin. And the beauty of Tether
• 55:17
  adoption is it gets people to understand how to manage private
• 55:22
  keys, how to work with blockchain based technology and
• 55:25
  how to move money outside the banks.
• 55:27
  Now, as long as as we don't have to KYC too hard for everybody
• 55:31
  outside the US, I think that adoption happens because the
• 55:35
  beauty of tether outside the US is people can transact dollars
• 55:40
  between each other and a frictionless way.
• 55:43
  As soon as KYC clampdowns occur for folks outside the US, that
• 55:47
  thesis that I've got may, may start to get eroded.
• 55:49
  But at the end of the day, Tether growing in strength here
• 55:53
  is a good thing for the US economy.
• 55:56
  It's a good thing for the adoption of private key based
• 55:59
  technology, and it moves all of us one step closer to hyper
• 56:03
  bitcoinization. Who knows how far out that is?
• 56:06
  But what I see is I don't like the revolving door aspect of
• 56:11
  what Bo Hines is doing here. And I got to tip my hat to him
• 56:14
  because he helped do something that was incredibly important
• 56:17
  for our future as an industry. I I I I completely agree.
• 56:21
  I think Bo Hines definitely helped a lot.
• 56:24
  And regarding the the revolving door aspect of it can't, It's
• 56:28
  like if we don't play the game, then you know, the other guys
• 56:34
  play the game. You know it's not, it's not
• 56:36
  Freddy. But you know what?
• 56:39
  I didn't go to the defense industry for a reason.
• 56:41
  Somebody can play that game, but I'm going to just not choose to.
• 56:44
  It's it's, it's, it's my own personal code of ethics.
• 56:48
  Well, yeah, I mean, I mean me and me and Opti too, right?
• 56:51
  Like unless Opti you you want to move to DC and rebrand simply
• 56:57
  simply dollar. Simply dollar just make it green
• 57:01
  instead of orange. Anyways, Opti, what are your
• 57:04
  thoughts before simply Fiat? Exactly, Opti, what are your
• 57:08
  thoughts on this brother before we move on to the culture?
• 57:11
  Yeah, I'd I'd agree with what Kent was saying.
• 57:13
  That's that's what I'm seeing as well.
• 57:16
  And when when we heard the news of Bohein stepping down, I said
• 57:19
  it's gonna be very interesting to see where he ends up.
• 57:22
  And depending on where he ends up is going to kind of show us
• 57:27
  whether this is a bullish move or rather the US kind of
• 57:30
  regulations is bullish for us. Or if he didn't go into like a
• 57:34
  crypto company or Bitcoin company, it would really kind of
• 57:38
  be one of those more negative takes of like he, you know, he
• 57:42
  resigned maybe in unfavorable terms here and he just kind of
• 57:45
  left because there was a lot of speculation of what's going on
• 57:48
  last week, especially with Scott Besson.
• 57:50
  You know, we were all wondering exactly what's going on with the
• 57:52
  strategic Bitcoin reserve, whether they're going to buy
• 57:55
  more, did we get rug pulled and stuff.
• 57:57
  And I said at the time, it's going to be interesting where
• 57:59
  Bohind ends up in the private sector.
• 58:02
  And if he's not in a Bitcoin company, then maybe he left in
• 58:04
  unfavorable terms. Now we know for a fact like he's
• 58:07
  going to Tether and exactly what Ken said said they have
• 58:11
  telegraphed this move for a long time.
• 58:13
  Look Bohind sets sets up the regulatory clarity that is
• 58:16
  needed for essentially you know Bitcoin to take over the world.
• 58:20
  Well, in reality, it's a stepwise function through
• 58:23
  stablecoin. Do we know what they want to do
• 58:25
  Trump investment have been saying this for a while.
• 58:27
  They want to maintain dollar dominance like Kent explained
• 58:30
  we've been explaining this on the show for a long time.
• 58:32
  Stablecoins are one of the main buyers right now of treasuries
• 58:36
  of government debt. They need to expand the debt so
• 58:40
  that they can, you know, continue the train to go as it's
• 58:43
  been going. What I'm hearing here guys, is
• 58:47
  one thing. They are going to debase the
• 58:50
  shit out of Fiat currencies. They're going to use stable
• 58:53
  coins to do this. Yes, it's not pretty.
• 58:55
  Yes, what's going on is something that you probably
• 58:58
  don't want to just have your friends and families get wrecked
• 59:01
  by, but they are telegraphing this.
• 59:03
  We know where this is going. They need to maintain, or rather
• 59:07
  they need to up the ante in interest in Treasuries.
• 59:11
  And as of now, no one wants to buy them.
• 59:13
  Stable coins are the main buyers of this.
• 59:15
  We've heard them say something, I forget what the number is, but
• 59:18
  something ridiculous that like, you know, stable coins are going
• 59:21
  to be a trillion dollar market here for Treasuries and this is
• 59:25
  all being telegraphed very clearly of what's going on.
• 59:28
  So I think the fact that Bo Hines did leave the digital
• 59:32
  assets working group going to tether, we know what they want
• 59:35
  to do. This is very clear as day here
• 59:37
  at this point. But as we always talk about the
• 59:40
  Trojan horse is Bitcoin here. So any thoughts of the US not
• 59:44
  embracing Bitcoin is just wholly naive.
• 59:46
  Like they are going to pump stable coins to the moon.
• 59:50
  Like I think we are underestimating how high they
• 59:53
  want Bitcoin to go because they we need Bitcoin price to go
• 59:56
  higher for them to kind of offset all of their debt right
• 59:59
  now. So like, yes, maybe you're not
• 1:00:01
  the biggest fan of stable coins, but this is extremely bullish
• 1:00:04
  for Bitcoin. This is this is going to take us
• 1:00:06
  in freaking, you know, past the moon to like Pluto, if it was
• 1:00:10
  still a planet like this is going to pump Bitcoin so high.
• 1:00:14
  It's going to be ridiculous. Well, whether this is going to
• 1:00:16
  happen this year is is up for debate, but we do know what
• 1:00:20
  they're going to do. They're going to literally
• 1:00:22
  debase the currency. They basically.
• 1:00:25
  Just exported government debt from just U.S. citizens globally
• 1:00:29
  U.S. dollar dominance it's going to basically consolidate now
• 1:00:33
  it's probably going to be stronger than ever before, but
• 1:00:36
  at that same time Bitcoin as a Trojan horse bitcoins going to
• 1:00:39
  get out there now everyone is going to basically have a
• 1:00:42
  choice. You're either going to go into
• 1:00:43
  stablecoins or you're going to take a step into stablecoins and
• 1:00:46
  then you're going to eventually end up in the Bitcoin.
• 1:00:47
  Like this is going to pump the Bitcoin market cap to freaking
• 1:00:50
  levels that we we couldn't even imagine here.
• 1:00:53
  So like, yes, it is a a little bittersweet in in regards to
• 1:00:56
  like they're going to debase the crap out of the Fiat currencies
• 1:01:00
  here. But as Kent was kind of
• 1:01:01
  explaining, and we've been kind of going through these thought
• 1:01:03
  experiments on the show for a while.
• 1:01:05
  This could be, you know, one of the final nails for other Fiat
• 1:01:09
  currencies. Like everything might collapse
• 1:01:11
  into the US dollar very quickly, a lot quicker than we even
• 1:01:14
  imagined. And then, you know, the final
• 1:01:17
  boss is really playing out. It's Bitcoin versus the dollar.
• 1:01:21
  And that is the final battle that we've been talking about
• 1:01:23
  here as Bitcoiners for a long, long time now.
• 1:01:26
  It seems like this is all been kind of set in motion now, you
• 1:01:31
  know, the, the game just has to get played out.
• 1:01:33
  Like we just have to see where the Domino's fall.
• 1:01:35
  This is where it is more important than ever for us to
• 1:01:38
  try to get people into Bitcoin. And, you know, if they, if they
• 1:01:42
  need to use stable coins to get there, then I, I don't think
• 1:01:44
  that's necessarily a bad thing. People do need to kind of get
• 1:01:48
  exposure to what Bitcoin is and for better or worse, stable
• 1:01:52
  coins have been that route for people.
• 1:01:54
  They're so familiar with Fiat currencies that they want
• 1:01:56
  something that that is kind of close to the idea that they have
• 1:02:00
  of Fiat. And then from there, they're
• 1:02:02
  going into Bitcoin like Paulo and everyone over at Tether,
• 1:02:06
  they're hardcore Maxis here, You know, they're, they're basically
• 1:02:09
  profiting off treasuries, stacking Bitcoin like, bro, if I
• 1:02:13
  could do that, I probably would. I wasn't smart enough to create
• 1:02:16
  Tether, but they're they're they're obviously, you know,
• 1:02:20
  playing a game that a lot of bitcoiners don't understand.
• 1:02:23
  There are a few bit corners that have been kind of on this beat
• 1:02:27
  for a while. It's like, yo, the Bitcoin
• 1:02:29
  dollar system is well in play. They've been they've been
• 1:02:32
  telegraphing these moves for a while.
• 1:02:34
  And anyone that thinks, you know, the US government is going
• 1:02:37
  to fight Bitcoin now is like that's not the case.
• 1:02:40
  That is going on. If anything, they're going to
• 1:02:42
  embrace it even more than ever. I do want to give a shout out to
• 1:02:46
  before we move on to the next segment.
• 1:02:47
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• 1:03:06
  today. They just implemented the
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  Lightning wallet. All right, everybody, let's get
• 1:03:10
  to the culture. We're going to talk to Kent
• 1:03:12
  about SAS mining, wild SAS. We're going to be right back in
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  just a second and we're also going to be giving away SAS at
• 1:03:20
  the end of the show. So you're going to want to stay
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  tuned. I want to give a shout out to
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  All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are back.
• 1:05:29
  I'm going to end the poll that we started in the beginning of
• 1:05:32
  the show. I said it is the Bitcoin bull
• 1:05:34
  run over. Ladies and gentlemen, not 80% of
• 1:05:39
  you guys voted no 19% of you guys voted yes and there were
• 1:05:44
  773 votes. If you guys are enjoying today's
• 1:05:48
  show, smash That Like Button. We're currently at 204 likes.
• 1:05:53
  Help us break perhaps maybe 250 likes by the time we wrap
• 1:05:57
  today's show. Want to give a shout out to the
• 1:05:59
  Rumble crowd as well, coming in hot.
• 1:06:01
  Smash that Like Button. We're almost at 3000 live
• 1:06:05
  viewers. Anyways, Kent, the floor is
• 1:06:08
  yours. Actually, I'm going to pass it
• 1:06:10
  on to Opti because Kent sent us something.
• 1:06:13
  Yeah. Yeah, but I, I, I agree with the
• 1:06:16
  chat. Sorry not to cut you off, Nico.
• 1:06:18
  I agree with the chat here, but 50 says it must be over.
• 1:06:21
  The herd says it's not. Pareto principle 20%, yes, it's
• 1:06:26
  over. It's probably correct.
• 1:06:29
  I just find that funny. Yeah.
• 1:06:31
  Anyway, actually before we get into what you wanted to talk
• 1:06:35
  about, Ken, we, we do have enough time.
• 1:06:37
  You have been coming on kind of as our reigning, you know,
• 1:06:41
  mining expert here coming from SAS.
• 1:06:42
  And so I want to kind of talk about the hash rate because it's
• 1:06:47
  going, it's going freaking nuclear here.
• 1:06:49
  It's going parabolic here. And there's the meme of, you
• 1:06:52
  know, does hash follow price or does price follow hash?
• 1:06:56
  And I think, you know, in this context, it makes perfect sense
• 1:07:00
  why Kent is so bullish on what's going on with Bitcoin.
• 1:07:02
  So what's your take on all that? Oh man.
• 1:07:05
  So here's how I see it. I think that Bitcoin is a
• 1:07:09
  digital Organism, right? I think price is 1 strand of of
• 1:07:13
  the DNA of of Bitcoin and hash is the hash rate is the other
• 1:07:18
  and they interrelate, right? And they're not correlated, but
• 1:07:22
  they're interrelated with one another.
• 1:07:24
  And what we see right now, my reigning thesis has been that
• 1:07:28
  price follows hash rate more or less.
• 1:07:31
  And all this desire to get Bitcoin through mining, which is
• 1:07:36
  ultimately being expressed by the increase in hash rate, is
• 1:07:40
  for two reasons, right? One, believing that the price of
• 1:07:44
  Bitcoin is going to go up, and two, what I've realized in
• 1:07:48
  working with our customers is people want Bitcoin from outside
• 1:07:51
  the system right there. There's no banking industry
• 1:07:54
  wrapped around mining. There's just a hardware
• 1:07:56
  industry. And so you can get Bitcoin
• 1:07:58
  outside the system. So I think that's another
• 1:08:00
  driver. But if you look at it, I believe
• 1:08:02
  personally, this explosive hash rate that we've seen this over
• 1:08:07
  the last few years since the China ban of 2021, at least I
• 1:08:10
  think it was 2021 anyhow, that explosive hash rate increase is
• 1:08:14
  because people are betting on the price increasing.
• 1:08:18
  And I'll tell you what, there's nobody that has more skin in the
• 1:08:21
  game than the mining industry. They put capital on the line to
• 1:08:25
  acquire Bitcoin. And that means that they're
• 1:08:27
  betting and you never want to bet against the market, you
• 1:08:30
  know, and, and directionally, this bet is, hey, price is going
• 1:08:33
  to explode at some point. And so that's my thesis as well,
• 1:08:37
  is even if the cycle is extending, there is going to be
• 1:08:39
  a blowout moment here where the price is going to accelerate and
• 1:08:43
  suddenly justify all this mining investment that the mining
• 1:08:46
  community has made. Love it.
• 1:08:48
  Absolutely love it. Couldn't agree more with that.
• 1:08:51
  All right, So, Kent. So I was going to call you SAS.
• 1:08:53
  That's funny. All right, Kent.
• 1:08:58
  All right, Kent, before we get into, you know, the the time
• 1:09:02
  stamp stuff you want to talk about, I do think it's another
• 1:09:05
  good kind of a conversation. You just told us you came back
• 1:09:09
  from Ethiopia and this like fundamentally like changed your
• 1:09:11
  view on what's going on with Bitcoin and mining and energy in
• 1:09:14
  general. And I think that's a good little
• 1:09:16
  story to kind of jump on here before we, you know, wrap up
• 1:09:19
  today's show. So tell the people about your
• 1:09:21
  trip to Ethiopia and and what fundamentally changed in your
• 1:09:24
  opinion. Oh boy, so all last.
• 1:09:27
  Week I was on the ground in Addis, Ethiopia and Addis and
• 1:09:31
  Ethiopia was fundamentally an eye opening experience for me.
• 1:09:35
  So I can't say that I've ever been to Africa because before
• 1:09:38
  that trip, with the exception of Morocco, which kind of quasi
• 1:09:42
  counts, But I I went to Addis and was, was first of all, just
• 1:09:47
  blown away by the culture of Ethiopia.
• 1:09:49
  And it was one of the few countries it's never been
• 1:09:51
  colonized. Very proud people.
• 1:09:53
  I've got a robust ancient culture.
• 1:09:55
  You know, it was the third country in on the planet to
• 1:09:58
  adopt Christianity even before Rome did.
• 1:10:02
  So deep like religious traditions, you know, Muslims
• 1:10:05
  are the second largest minority there behind Christians,
• 1:10:08
  Orthodox Christians, and they all get along.
• 1:10:10
  And so I think there's something to look for the all of humanity
• 1:10:14
  to look at right now to see how long term cultures and different
• 1:10:17
  religions can get along in the same same country.
• 1:10:20
  But with 130 million people there.
• 1:10:22
  They are installing a ton of hydropower right now.
• 1:10:26
  Like the point to the point where they're actually building
• 1:10:30
  an airport that right now their current airport can handle like
• 1:10:33
  20 million visitors a year and they're building one that's
• 1:10:35
  going to be able to handle 100 million visitors a year over the
• 1:10:38
  next five years. And they are expecting to
• 1:10:41
  install I think somewhere. I think the top number I got was
• 1:10:44
  about 10 gigawatts, like roughly like 4 Xing their current power
• 1:10:49
  generation. And to me, what I've learned in
• 1:10:51
  Bitcoin mining is that power, electricity is a predicate for
• 1:10:56
  civilization flourishing. And it just seems like
• 1:11:00
  Ethiopia's going up into the right hard.
• 1:11:02
  China's making big investments there.
• 1:11:04
  You know, the what's it the belt, one belt, forgetting the
• 1:11:08
  language. Anyway, the big investment from
• 1:11:11
  China there is definitely advancing their community.
• 1:11:14
  And there's a ton of excess hydropower right now.
• 1:11:17
  And Bitcoin miners are serving a super critical role.
• 1:11:21
  And it's not a role that I expected.
• 1:11:23
  The role that they're actually serving is to bring dollars into
• 1:11:26
  the country. So I spent some time after the
• 1:11:30
  trip kind of understanding their debt dynamics and they they owe
• 1:11:33
  a lot of debt specifically to the IMF and dollars.
• 1:11:36
  And last year, the mining community brought in nearly 1/4
• 1:11:39
  billion dollars into that economy.
• 1:11:42
  And so having that, that flow of dollars coming in is allowing
• 1:11:46
  them to pay their IMF debt based obligations.
• 1:11:49
  And so there is a shake up that is going on right now in
• 1:11:52
  Ethiopia, winners in and losers are being chosen, but it's sort
• 1:11:56
  of the perfect opportunity really to take a really hard
• 1:11:59
  look at at potentially entering there.
• 1:12:01
  And so, you know, we're in discussions with nothing to
• 1:12:04
  bring to the market at this point.
• 1:12:05
  But I really liked what I saw. I saw the opportunity.
• 1:12:09
  The locals are ecstatic to have the job based opportunities that
• 1:12:13
  mining provides. The government's ecstatic to
• 1:12:16
  have the dollars coming in from outside so they can pay their
• 1:12:19
  debt. And the entire country feels
• 1:12:21
  like it's on a descendant path right now.
• 1:12:24
  Now, that's not to say that there's not problems in
• 1:12:27
  Ethiopia, right? Like the there's, it's heavily
• 1:12:30
  bureaucratic, but the rule of law is respected.
• 1:12:32
  And in the north, there's been long term conflict.
• 1:12:35
  But you know, Ethiopia is a country that's made of, I heard
• 1:12:39
  like 81 different original ethnic tribes.
• 1:12:43
  So it's, it's incredibly nuanced, a lot of it, but it
• 1:12:47
  feels like a country that is, you know, pulling itself up by
• 1:12:50
  the bootstraps. And it's really cool to see that
• 1:12:52
  happening and, and, and, and hopefully get to participate in
• 1:12:56
  driving that forward with the with Bitcoiners around the world
• 1:13:00
  wanting to mine there again, if I can bring it an opportunity to
• 1:13:04
  market. Love it, love it, and I'm gonna
• 1:13:07
  go. So I also wanted to mention as
• 1:13:10
  well, ladies and gentlemen, there's a special promotion
• 1:13:14
  going on right now. You have to go to sasmining.com
• 1:13:21
  and if you use the promo code Simply SAS, I love the name of
• 1:13:26
  that, you will get $100 off of your first miner.
• 1:13:32
  So you got to go right now to SAS mining.com.
• 1:13:36
  You have to start, you know, you have to get your first rig,
• 1:13:40
  start mining Bitcoin, start acquiring those wild sats.
• 1:13:45
  And if you use promo code Simply SAS, again, you get $100 off off
• 1:13:52
  of your first rig. And again, this is only
• 1:13:57
  available till 7:00 PM Eastern Standard Time.
• 1:14:02
  So after that, that promo code will expire.
• 1:14:05
  So go to sasmining.com and use promo code Simply SAS or you'll
• 1:14:10
  get left without any. Wild.
• 1:14:13
  Yeah. And I think there's a perfect
• 1:14:14
  question in the chat here as like a perfect segue right here.
• 1:14:19
  Craig says how do we hash an expensive countries like UK?
• 1:14:23
  Well, what a softball question here.
• 1:14:25
  So Kent. And This is why I have a job,
• 1:14:30
  Greg. I go out and source low cost
• 1:14:33
  power and make sure I've got a great data center.
• 1:14:36
  I trustworthy partners on the ground and allow you to mine
• 1:14:39
  Bitcoin directly to your wallet so that you don't have to try to
• 1:14:43
  mine on on really expensive power where you live because
• 1:14:46
  it's just not feasible for the most part.
• 1:14:48
  I mean, to put it in perspective, I've got a bit X
• 1:14:50
  sitting here on my desk. It's I considered a lot of
• 1:14:53
  miner. I mean, man, I want to play the
• 1:14:54
  lottery and win 3.125 Bitcoin. I'd love to hit that right.
• 1:14:57
  But I recognize that if I actually want to do to acquire
• 1:15:01
  Bitcoin the way Satoshi did and get it at a discount as compared
• 1:15:05
  to buying it, I need to find somebody else to help me.
• 1:15:07
  And right now, SAS mining is the only Bitcoin mining is a service
• 1:15:12
  business and it differentiates from traditional hosting because
• 1:15:16
  we've got a software platform that eases that entire
• 1:15:19
  experience. And we're the only business in
• 1:15:22
  this particular sector that's chosen to only be able to
• 1:15:26
  generate revenue for itself if I'm making you Bitcoin, right?
• 1:15:30
  And so we did that because I recognize coming into this
• 1:15:33
  industry from the rooftop solar industry that I'd worked in for
• 1:15:36
  like a decade, that there is no way for me to have possession of
• 1:15:41
  property that our clients own without that being a high trust
• 1:15:44
  relationship. So I just said, hey, how do I,
• 1:15:46
  how do I optimize around trust for this?
• 1:15:49
  And the answer was, well, I don't want to make money selling
• 1:15:52
  hardware. I don't want to make money
• 1:15:53
  selling electricity. I want to make sure that I'm
• 1:15:56
  only generating my profit if I'm helping my clients generate
• 1:15:58
  Bitcoin for themselves. And so that's how the, the
• 1:16:02
  business model was determined. I'm really proud of the fact
• 1:16:05
  that we've got, you know, north of 350 clients.
• 1:16:08
  We're operating in three continents right now, 81% of our
• 1:16:11
  clients are repeat buyers and we are the first to focus on
• 1:16:15
  building a software platform. So software as a service for
• 1:16:18
  Bitcoin mining. And it's thus far proved
• 1:16:22
  exceptionally valuable to clients.
• 1:16:25
  We see a lot of clients building fleets with us.
• 1:16:27
  And I think that you'll find that it's just better Bitcoin,
• 1:16:30
  it's lower cost because you're using energy rather than
• 1:16:33
  purchasing on an exchange. It's wild.
• 1:16:35
  Meaning you don't, we don't need your identifying information.
• 1:16:38
  I mean, we need to communicate with you, of course.
• 1:16:40
  And it's done the way Satoshi got his Bitcoin, which is by
• 1:16:45
  protecting the network. And so something just feels
• 1:16:47
  sovereign and better about that Bitcoin that you're acquiring in
• 1:16:50
  this fashion. And our customers love it.
• 1:16:52
  And you're able to get that outside of the system.
• 1:16:56
  And I think downstream of all of this, the more Bitcoiners that
• 1:17:00
  are acquiring their their Bitcoin through mining instead
• 1:17:03
  of buying, the less the centralization issues will
• 1:17:06
  happen on the network. Because right now that is the
• 1:17:08
  biggest problem in Bitcoin, in my opinion, full stop, is that
• 1:17:11
  most of the mining industry is acquiring Bitcoin and using that
• 1:17:16
  as a proxy for Fiat. And they're doing that because
• 1:17:19
  they're publicly traded. Companies have a fiduciary
• 1:17:21
  responsibility to return dollars to their shareholders, not
• 1:17:24
  Bitcoin. And that means that they're not
• 1:17:26
  necessarily aligned with the network itself.
• 1:17:29
  Beautiful again guys, go to saasmining.com today use promo
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  code simply SaaS. You get $100 off of your first
• 1:17:39
  rig and if you want to invest in this awesome company they're
• 1:17:44
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• 1:17:52
  you have to, you know, you have to go through the whole process
• 1:17:56
  and see if if you are, if you're able to invest.
• 1:18:01
  But if you, if you are able to invest, if you check all the
• 1:18:04
  boxes, you know they, they, they're currently raising money.
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  my personal favorite simply Bitcoin, Forbes, coin desk,
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  Bitcoin magazine, Bitcoin news, and it has all the details there
• 1:18:24
  and of course I'll drop this in the live chat today.
• 1:18:26
  I have to go. I have to go catch a Real Madrid
• 1:18:30
  game. So I'm going to wrap it up here
• 1:18:32
  guys. This was simply Bitcoin live.
• 1:18:36
  I'm going to give away. We're going to do 2 SAT
• 1:18:39
  giveaways tomorrow to make up for the not giving away a SAT.
• 1:18:43
  Giveaway today. Dude, I have to I'm going to be
• 1:18:45
  late to this game. So we're going to be we're going
• 1:18:49
  to be doing a double SAT giveaway via Bitcoin well
• 1:18:52
  tomorrow. So you guys want to tune into
• 1:18:54
  the show again, go check out SAS mining.com.
• 1:18:58
  Use the promo code Simply SAS to get $100 off your first rig.
• 1:19:02
  I'm your host Nico. This is my Co host Optimus
• 1:19:05
  Fields, our guest today, CEO of SAS Mining Kent.
• 1:19:09
  This is August 19th, 2025. I'll see you guys tomorrow for a
• 1:19:13
  brand new episode of Simply Bitcoin Live.
• 1:19:17
  Today's episode was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com, a
• 1:19:20
  Bitcoin only platform on a mission to enable financial
• 1:19:23
  independence.