Latest / Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogert and Tab Ramos / Most Underrated USMNT Players, Dual-National Panic & Inside USA–Iran ’98 World Cup

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Most Underrated USMNT Players, Dual-National Panic & Inside USA–Iran ’98 World Cup · Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogert and Tab Ramos

0:00
Speaker 1: We got together in the center of the field and
0:02
Speaker 1: we did a single picture. Instead of having our own
0:05
Speaker 1: team picture, we did a single picture in which both
0:08
Speaker 1: teams were together, one American one Irani, one American one Irani.
0:12
Speaker 1: And I think it was a great moment. I think
0:15
Speaker 1: not just for our federation and for around but I
0:17
Speaker 1: think for the world to see that. You know, we're
0:20
Speaker 1: just athletes trying to bring people together.
0:25
Speaker 2: Greetings, folks, and welcome to Inside American Soccer. I'm Matt Doyle,
0:29
Speaker 2: the armchair analyst, filling in for Tom Bogert for a
0:32
Speaker 2: couple more weeks than I am, joined as always by
0:36
Speaker 2: my friend and yours, tab Ramos, one of the greatest
0:39
Speaker 2: players in US men's national team history, veteran of three
0:44
Speaker 2: World Cups, and ready to chop it up on a
0:47
Speaker 2: Tuesday morning, talking about what's happening in the world of
0:51
Speaker 2: the US men's national team tap with one hundred days
0:54
Speaker 2: left until the World Cup begins.
0:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's getting exciting, right. MLS is rolling full time now.
1:01
Speaker 1: We have the Champions League getting to its final stages,
1:04
Speaker 1: which is the most exciting time for that, and we
1:07
Speaker 1: have American players playing everywhere and some of them surprising
1:10
Speaker 1: us and some of some of them falling behind. So
1:14
Speaker 1: we'll have a little bit of a discussion about both
1:17
Speaker 1: of those scenarios.
1:19
Speaker 2: Who are you rooting for in the Champions League? Like,
1:20
Speaker 2: do you have a team that because obviously we're all Betty's.
1:23
Speaker 2: If they ever got to the round of sixteen, you
1:26
Speaker 2: would be over the moon and that would be your club.
1:27
Speaker 2: But like, is there, you know, barring that, is there
1:30
Speaker 2: a team that you're kind of supporting these days or
1:34
Speaker 2: long term?
1:35
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, yeah, Betty's, I think is a good
1:38
Speaker 1: is a good call. They actually disappointed me this weekend
1:40
Speaker 1: because they were winning the derby two zero at halftime
1:43
Speaker 1: and I actually turned the game and they ended up
1:46
Speaker 1: tying to to at home to Sevilla, which is not
1:49
Speaker 1: good in terms of Champions League. So my mom's family
1:53
Speaker 1: is from Napoli, so Napoli is always my my sort
1:57
Speaker 1: of my second team. But from when I was little,
2:00
Speaker 1: my dad made me a sort of a Real Madrid fan,
2:03
Speaker 1: from the time of when Juan Intel played for Real Madrid,
2:06
Speaker 1: so that's a long time that most people won't remember.
2:09
Speaker 1: But yeah, I would say Real Madrid is probably the
2:11
Speaker 1: team that I support the most, although obviously not a
2:15
Speaker 1: good year for them, and I think they only they
2:18
Speaker 1: likely only have a couple of weeks left. But I'll
2:21
Speaker 1: I'm traveling actually to Madrid next week to the Madrid
2:24
Speaker 1: Man City game, so I'm gonna be there at that game.
2:27
Speaker 1: It should be fun.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a huge one. It's become look man anytime
2:32
Speaker 2: it's pet versus Real Madrid. It is a matchup laden
2:37
Speaker 2: with subtext and text. That's one of the ones that
2:40
Speaker 2: I will be watching as well. But of course we
2:43
Speaker 2: are here to talk about US men's national team. Unfortunately
2:47
Speaker 2: that does not apply to Manchester City or Real Madrid
2:50
Speaker 2: these days. Not yet. Anyway, we do have some very
2:53
Speaker 2: talented teenagers coming through this syst who made one day
2:56
Speaker 2: move to one of those two teams, and one of
2:58
Speaker 2: them that will be talking about so is Noahkai Banks,
3:02
Speaker 2: the German American playing big minutes, nineteen year old center
3:06
Speaker 2: back for Augsburg playing big minutes in the Bundesliga. A
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Speaker 2: little bit of a dual national panic happening with him.
3:13
Speaker 2: And then Wes McKenny finally gets a new contract for
3:16
Speaker 2: Juventus after proving again and again and again that he's
3:20
Speaker 2: irreplaceable for that team. We'll also talk the most underrated
3:25
Speaker 2: US men's national team players of the past forty years,
3:28
Speaker 2: a lot of guys that Tab played with back in
3:30
Speaker 2: the day who maybe newer fans don't quite remember that well,
3:34
Speaker 2: but also some of the newer guys more recent vintage.
3:37
Speaker 2: And will also go inside the locker room with Tab
3:40
Speaker 2: and discuss one of the most tension filled matches he
3:43
Speaker 2: ever took part in with the US against Iran in
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Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety eight World Cup. But first let's get
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Speaker 2: into that US news and we'll start with Noah Kai Banks.
3:55
Speaker 2: He had insists and then after the game he mentions
3:59
Speaker 2: that national status, which honestly I had not heard him
4:03
Speaker 2: talk about. Let me give you the quote, even though
4:06
Speaker 2: playing out a World Cup is a dream, I don't
4:09
Speaker 2: want to make my decision dependent on a World Cup,
4:12
Speaker 2: is what he told Sky Sports Germany. I feel connected
4:15
Speaker 2: to both nations, meaning the US and Germany. And the
4:19
Speaker 2: context of that question was basically, if you're promised a
4:22
Speaker 2: World Cup spot with the US, will you commit to
4:24
Speaker 2: the US? And I think Toddy he gave him ature answer,
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Speaker 2: but I'm hoping that he'll commit to the US because
4:31
Speaker 2: he's really good.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he went into depth, likely a little
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Speaker 1: bit more than he wanted to on that answer. He
4:39
Speaker 1: probably should have said, I'm leaving old doors open, you know,
4:43
Speaker 1: which is what every player says all the time. In
4:47
Speaker 1: that that means that you're not leaning either way. I
4:51
Speaker 1: think with the way he phrased that, it's sort of
4:55
Speaker 1: if I had to translate that, I would say he
4:57
Speaker 1: just said, even if I get called for the US
5:00
Speaker 1: to play in the World Cup, if I have a
5:03
Speaker 1: chance to play for Germany, I will play for Germany instead.
5:07
Speaker 1: That's how I That's how I read that, and so
5:10
Speaker 1: that's the feel I got from that. And that's a
5:12
Speaker 1: little bit scary, because you know, I was in the
5:15
Speaker 1: middle of that fight in the in the mid tens.
5:18
Speaker 1: Let's say, when we were fighting, you get players from
5:21
Speaker 1: you know that wanted to go play for Mexico, you know,
5:24
Speaker 1: the the Ledesmas of the world back then, and the
5:28
Speaker 1: you know, Alex Mendez and these guys, and it was
5:31
Speaker 1: a tough battle when Mexico was a little bit ahead
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Speaker 1: of us, and we felt like, you know, we really
5:36
Speaker 1: had a Peppi being another one. We felt like we
5:38
Speaker 1: really had to convince them. And I feel like Noah
5:42
Speaker 1: kai bank Is by what he said, I feel like
5:47
Speaker 1: now we need to convince him it's not a great
5:50
Speaker 1: place to be. But there's just all it means is
5:52
Speaker 1: that we have a little bit more homework to do,
5:54
Speaker 1: that's all.
5:55
Speaker 2: Yeah. Thirty five years ago, Thomas Dooley kind of open
6:00
Speaker 2: the door for German Americans to play a significant role
6:04
Speaker 2: with the US national team. What was it like into
6:09
Speaker 2: and to be clear, very different situation. Thomas Dooley was
6:12
Speaker 2: a veteran I think it was what twenty nine years
6:14
Speaker 2: old when he first got capped for the US, and
6:16
Speaker 2: he was good enough to have been in a couple
6:18
Speaker 2: Germany camps, but he's not going to play over low Darmataeus.
6:23
Speaker 2: What was it like integrating him into that group that
6:26
Speaker 2: had been so tight knit and so I don't want
6:28
Speaker 2: to say closed off, but like it was basically a
6:30
Speaker 2: bunch of American college kids together for nineteen ninety and
6:33
Speaker 2: then by nineteen ninety four came around guys like Thomas
6:38
Speaker 2: Dooley and Ernie Stewart had suddenly become part of the team.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think it was an easy transition actually,
6:44
Speaker 1: because it was we were a little bit in awe
6:47
Speaker 1: in all of having guys coming from overseas who had
6:50
Speaker 1: had a lot of experience. So Thomas Dooley had played
6:53
Speaker 1: for kaisers Loud and already I think Leverkusen as well.
6:57
Speaker 2: In high Seed. Yeah, right, so he.
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Speaker 1: Had succeeded at the highest level and for US to
7:02
Speaker 1: have a player like that, we never really thought of
7:06
Speaker 1: Thomas being a foreigner when.
7:08
Speaker 2: He was with us.
7:09
Speaker 1: He was always put in. He always had a smile
7:11
Speaker 1: in his face. He wanted to you know, he worked
7:14
Speaker 1: hard every day. He didn't. He made it known that
7:18
Speaker 1: this is what he really wanted. So he never really
7:22
Speaker 1: he was never really walking a line. And I think
7:24
Speaker 1: it might be because of what you just said. It
7:26
Speaker 1: might be because of the age. Right at that age,
7:28
Speaker 1: he knew that it was this or nothing. Maybe, but
7:32
Speaker 1: we never felt like, oh, we have to impress Thomas
7:34
Speaker 1: because he's either going to play for US or he's
7:36
Speaker 1: going to play for Germany. I think he always made
7:39
Speaker 1: it known that this is what he always wanted, and
7:41
Speaker 1: he had a lot of respect for the US and
7:43
Speaker 1: US flag and we always felt like he was part
7:46
Speaker 1: and that it was really easy to have him on board.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. No, Kai Banks obviously at different stage in his career,
7:52
Speaker 2: just nineteen years old. He talked about being in US camp.
7:55
Speaker 2: He was back, he was in camp back in September,
7:58
Speaker 2: didn't play, and then wasn't in the subsequent camps and
8:02
Speaker 2: in October and November. But he talked about adjusting and
8:05
Speaker 2: he specifically said the guys helped me to get into
8:09
Speaker 2: the team and into the training. It was incredible, to
8:12
Speaker 2: be honest, the big guys like Christian koulisk or Tim Waya,
8:16
Speaker 2: we maybe don't expect it, but it's been great saying
8:19
Speaker 2: that the leadership from the veterans in this US squad
8:23
Speaker 2: actually data make him feel welcome. So look, man, I
8:26
Speaker 2: have my fingers crossed. It's weird to have to recruit,
8:30
Speaker 2: right you. Ideally it's everybody who is in the roster
8:36
Speaker 2: on the team are guys who dreamed of wearing those
8:39
Speaker 2: colors and those colors alone. But that's not reality. Reality
8:43
Speaker 2: is that dual nationals everywhere from Argentina to Italy, to
8:48
Speaker 2: England to Turkey to the US in Mexico. You have
8:52
Speaker 2: to recruit and you have to kind of make it
8:56
Speaker 2: the culture of the team to blend all of these
8:59
Speaker 2: guys with different backs grounds together, So for me to like,
9:02
Speaker 2: I really want Punch to call him for the camp
9:07
Speaker 2: coming this month. I will be disappointed if he doesn't.
9:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, here's the other point that I think he's
9:13
Speaker 1: deserving of a call at this point, you know. So,
9:16
Speaker 1: I mean, regardless of what he said, I thought he
9:20
Speaker 1: had a real good chance of getting called this camp anyway,
9:23
Speaker 1: and so I'm hoping that that Poschettino in this case
9:25
Speaker 1: follows through and regardless of what, you know, what he mentioned,
9:30
Speaker 1: what Noa Kaite mentioned to the to the press, I
9:35
Speaker 1: think he should be in anyway. And I think, you know,
9:37
Speaker 1: and and maybe if you're a Puschettino, you're giving yourself
9:40
Speaker 1: a better chance by having him in camp and by
9:42
Speaker 1: being able to discuss with him in the future a
9:44
Speaker 1: little bit as a young player. And that's something that
9:48
Speaker 1: likely no Kaite Banks would like to hear. So I
9:51
Speaker 1: think it would benefit everyone if if he gets to
9:54
Speaker 1: call anyway, because you know, he deserves it.
9:57
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another guy who is earned himself a call. I
10:02
Speaker 2: think it is Johnny Cardoso, who struggled the first half
10:05
Speaker 2: of the year with Atletico Madrid obviously had some injuries
10:08
Speaker 2: as well, but has played well recently Athletier into the
10:12
Speaker 2: Champions League Round of sixteen. They also have the second
10:17
Speaker 2: leg of Copa del Rey against Barcelona coming up, and
10:20
Speaker 2: they thrashed Barcelona four nil in that first leg. He
10:26
Speaker 2: has played much better for club than he has for country.
10:29
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got about twenty caps with the US,
10:31
Speaker 2: and I can't think of one in which he was
10:34
Speaker 2: particularly compelling. Is this window we expect him to be
10:42
Speaker 2: on the roster even though he has kind of lost
10:44
Speaker 2: the backup job defensive midfield, like other guys have clearly
10:48
Speaker 2: passed him in Pochettino's eyes, But like A, does he
10:52
Speaker 2: need to be there regardless? And B should he start?
10:57
Speaker 2: Should he start in these games so that Pachkin get
11:00
Speaker 2: a sense for Okay, can he translate what he does
11:03
Speaker 2: with Atluti to the US national team because he hasn't
11:05
Speaker 2: so far.
11:08
Speaker 1: And those are all good points. So I'll start with
11:10
Speaker 1: the beginning, and which you said, you know, if he's
11:12
Speaker 1: played twenty games, and that actually shocks me because I
11:16
Speaker 1: can't even think of the like twenty games, because you're right,
11:20
Speaker 1: I mean, we all remember one play that he made
11:23
Speaker 1: and it wasn't a good one, right, And that's the
11:26
Speaker 1: play against Turkey. That's what we're thinking about when we
11:28
Speaker 1: think of him playing for the national team, which is
11:30
Speaker 1: really unfortunate, only not because a player couldn't make that mistake,
11:36
Speaker 1: but only because he hasn't had a bunch of other
11:39
Speaker 1: moments that where we could say, well, he did that,
11:42
Speaker 1: but look at all of these things, so you're absolutely right.
11:46
Speaker 1: For the national team, he has not been at that level.
11:50
Speaker 1: I think the important part at this point is that
11:53
Speaker 1: he's playing for one of the top teams in the
11:56
Speaker 1: Champions League. I mean, there's no way to hide that.
11:58
Speaker 1: If you had to pick the top fifteen teams in
12:01
Speaker 1: the world, Athletico Madrid would be up there likely, and
12:05
Speaker 1: he started for them, and he started for them in
12:06
Speaker 1: a big game in the Champions League, and he scored
12:08
Speaker 1: the winning goal, by the way, So we can't brush
12:11
Speaker 1: that aside and think that because he didn't do well
12:14
Speaker 1: for the national team in the past, that this doesn't
12:16
Speaker 1: have the value. I think this has incredible value. I think,
12:20
Speaker 1: as I mentioned to you to everyone here a couple
12:24
Speaker 1: of shows ago, when we were talking about Balligan and
12:27
Speaker 1: the importance of just being a starter in those teams, right,
12:31
Speaker 1: he's starting for one of the top teams in the
12:34
Speaker 1: world and playing a significant role in a significant game
12:39
Speaker 1: that has a lot of money at stake for the club,
12:42
Speaker 1: and he did well in it. By the way, he
12:44
Speaker 1: didn't play great at that in that game. He was okay,
12:48
Speaker 1: but he scored a great goal, which obviously helps him
12:50
Speaker 1: a lot. But I think we have to value that,
12:53
Speaker 1: and because of that, I think he's deserving of a
12:56
Speaker 1: call and given other chances to succeed, likely the national.
13:00
Speaker 2: Team, he gets the call. What happens if he's not
13:04
Speaker 2: starting in the first game, the first friendly, the US
13:08
Speaker 2: player in this window, Does that tell you something?
13:11
Speaker 1: No, not really, because you know Maurico Pozettino may, of course,
13:17
Speaker 1: as a coach, he's already thinking of the starting eleven,
13:19
Speaker 1: right and the starting eleven may not include him anyway,
13:23
Speaker 1: I think you want to have, though, on the bench,
13:27
Speaker 1: someone that you think is not going to be scared
13:30
Speaker 1: to play in a big game. And by the way,
13:31
Speaker 1: no player is scared. But I think you know what
13:34
Speaker 1: I'm saying by that, someone that's not going to have
13:36
Speaker 1: the nerves because we're playing you know, Portugal and Belgium,
13:39
Speaker 1: like you're starting to play big teams now, and I
13:41
Speaker 1: think when you look at us playing big teams where
13:45
Speaker 1: and by big teams, I mean teams that have an
13:48
Speaker 1: excellent player in every position, an excellent, skillful, mature player
13:56
Speaker 1: in every single position. And I think Johnny Cardoso fits
14:00
Speaker 1: into that role because he's doing that in the Champions
14:03
Speaker 1: League he's playing, and by the way, he's doing that
14:05
Speaker 1: in practice every day. Because Athletical Madrid's roster can match
14:09
Speaker 1: up with a lot of rosters from around the world
14:11
Speaker 1: from the top team, so I think it would be
14:15
Speaker 1: a good call to have him in and regardless of
14:17
Speaker 1: whether he starts or not, I think it would be
14:19
Speaker 1: good to give him some minutes to allow him to
14:22
Speaker 1: gain some confidence with the US uniform.
14:26
Speaker 2: On an excellent skillful player in every position for Juventus,
14:33
Speaker 2: that's just cloning Weston McKenny. Eleven times. He has played
14:37
Speaker 2: just about every position for You've a over the years,
14:41
Speaker 2: and it seems like every year we have talked about
14:44
Speaker 2: him needing to prove himself in a new spot for
14:46
Speaker 2: a new coach, and finally this week it happened. Westin
14:51
Speaker 2: McKenny got a four year contract from Juventus. I think
14:56
Speaker 2: it's four point seven million a year net. Nice money
14:59
Speaker 2: if you can get it, So congratulations to him. He's
15:03
Speaker 2: been playing mostly as a number ten lately and kind
15:06
Speaker 2: of like a bots arriving number ten, but he does
15:08
Speaker 2: have that ability to sort of unlock the defense with
15:12
Speaker 2: a one touch pass. Has shown that, you know, put
15:15
Speaker 2: that to good use recently. Happy for him as a
15:18
Speaker 2: player and a person. What's your take on this situation, tab,
15:24
Speaker 2: Is this the ideal outcome for him?
15:27
Speaker 1: Well, the last game, I think the last Champions League
15:30
Speaker 1: game they played, he started a left back and then
15:32
Speaker 1: did the game at right back. So but yeah, you're right,
15:35
Speaker 1: he plays number ten most of the time. So I
15:38
Speaker 1: just don't think there's many players in the world who
15:41
Speaker 1: can do all of that and do it well right. So,
15:44
Speaker 1: and by well, I mean he doesn't look out of position, right,
15:48
Speaker 1: because he does make, you know, some mistakes playing in
15:51
Speaker 1: particularly left back. He didn't look comfortable there to me.
15:54
Speaker 1: But anyway, Yeah, this surprises me, to be honest, because
16:00
Speaker 1: I really thought that with what he had done at
16:04
Speaker 1: Juventus that the door was completely open for him to
16:08
Speaker 1: return to the EPL and be in in a top
16:12
Speaker 1: let's say, mid table and higher team in the EPL.
16:15
Speaker 1: And I'm a little bit surprised that that didn't happen.
16:19
Speaker 1: I think the important party is he's at a great
16:22
Speaker 1: club that finally loves him. You know, it took so
16:25
Speaker 1: long for the club to fall in love with him,
16:28
Speaker 1: but they have and I'm happy to see that and
16:31
Speaker 1: I'm happy for him. And by the way, four point
16:34
Speaker 1: seven million a year, I think you can live on that.
16:35
Speaker 1: So I think he's gonna be okay.
16:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it probably goes pretty far in Turin. I
16:42
Speaker 2: like this more. I like him being a centerpiece on
16:47
Speaker 2: this team and at that salary. He is going to
16:50
Speaker 2: be a centerpiece for this team. He's gonna be one
16:53
Speaker 2: of the leaders for a team that is going to
16:55
Speaker 2: be competing at the top of Syria, trying to win
16:58
Speaker 2: trophies every single year, rather than going to the primary
17:02
Speaker 2: league and being a team that's just trying to break
17:04
Speaker 2: into the top six. I think it's better for him
17:07
Speaker 2: for his like for leadership reasons with the team, because
17:12
Speaker 2: Western as a leader for the US has been gregarious
17:15
Speaker 2: and he's you know, body language monster, but he's never
17:19
Speaker 2: been the guy who's like, Okay, this team is going
17:21
Speaker 2: to revolve around me. And I think for the US
17:24
Speaker 2: to hit its peak this group, they kind of need
17:29
Speaker 2: him to be that. They need him to be running
17:32
Speaker 2: the show in midfield emotionally and tactically, and I think
17:37
Speaker 2: this puts him in a good spot to actually learn
17:40
Speaker 2: those skills.
17:42
Speaker 1: You could be right about that. I'll give you the
17:45
Speaker 1: other side of that. The other side of that is that,
17:47
Speaker 1: you know, Juventus signs a couple other skillful midfielders and
17:50
Speaker 1: now he's stuck playing wide somewhere. Although you know, although
17:54
Speaker 1: they're obviously you know, paying them enough money to have
17:58
Speaker 1: him on the field every day, and they're going to
18:01
Speaker 1: need to do that because it's not like Juventus, you know,
18:03
Speaker 1: financially it can be so competitive that they can afford
18:09
Speaker 1: to have a player making this kind of money sitting
18:11
Speaker 1: on the bench. Let's just say that. Yeah, you know,
18:15
Speaker 1: the part that scares me about his situation at Juventus
18:18
Speaker 1: is that he still doesn't really have a position. And
18:21
Speaker 1: so this this makes me recall, you know, back when
18:25
Speaker 1: I was playing in Spain, Jorgey Dallas Sandro is, you know,
18:27
Speaker 1: one of my coaches who's you know, one of my
18:29
Speaker 1: great coaches who played you know, he coached Athletico Madrid
18:32
Speaker 1: and a lot of big clubs. After he left Betty's.
18:36
Speaker 1: He said to me that he didn't like players that
18:38
Speaker 1: were a little bit good at everything, you know, he
18:40
Speaker 1: liked players who were really good in one position because
18:43
Speaker 1: he knew that if he bought an expert at right wing,
18:46
Speaker 1: that that right winger was going to be a right
18:48
Speaker 1: winger and was going to deliver. And so I'm not
18:52
Speaker 1: sure if that's getting my point across, but that's where
18:54
Speaker 1: I am with with Weston right because even when we
18:57
Speaker 1: think about Weston playing for our national team, were thinking, okay,
19:01
Speaker 1: well he played a little deeper in midfield, will he
19:04
Speaker 1: be the ten? Will Mariso Pochetino put him wide? Because
19:08
Speaker 1: he wants to have him on the field, And I'd
19:10
Speaker 1: rather see someone who's really good at one role. And
19:15
Speaker 1: that could be an issue at Juventus down the road
19:18
Speaker 1: in particular, because as we know, coaches don't last very long,
19:21
Speaker 1: and as a new coach comes in, they'll have their
19:24
Speaker 1: own players and where do you fall after that? So
19:26
Speaker 1: a little bit by the way, great move, great contract,
19:30
Speaker 1: but a little bit of a scary situation because I'm
19:33
Speaker 1: just not seeing the exact position for him.
19:36
Speaker 2: Let's keep our fingers crossed that it all works out
19:40
Speaker 2: that he does get all those minutes in central midfield,
19:43
Speaker 2: whether it's as an eight or a ten. I think
19:45
Speaker 2: those are probably his two best spots. But for us,
19:49
Speaker 2: it's time for a break. We'll be right back with
19:52
Speaker 2: our rankings the top five most underrated US men's national
19:56
Speaker 2: team players of the past forty years, and we're gonna
19:59
Speaker 2: ad you to rate, review, and subscribe to Inside American
20:03
Speaker 2: Soccer with Tom Boger at tab Ramos wherever you get
20:06
Speaker 2: your podcasts. All right, folks, welcome back to Inside American Soccer.
20:21
Speaker 2: I'm Matt Doyle here with Tabramos and we're doing our
20:24
Speaker 2: inside rankings. It's a pretty new segment that we have
20:29
Speaker 2: decided to weave into the show, where Tab and I
20:32
Speaker 2: get to go through our top fives of various things
20:35
Speaker 2: in and around US soccer. And we're going back at
20:38
Speaker 2: the time machine a little bit for this one. Tab
20:40
Speaker 2: We're going to take a look at our most underrated
20:43
Speaker 2: US men's national team players of the past forty years.
20:49
Speaker 2: And I am going to start out my number five
20:52
Speaker 2: is a dual national, a playmaker who has South American roots,
21:01
Speaker 2: really good on the ball, not necessarily a goal scorer,
21:05
Speaker 2: and not tab Ramos. I'm talking about Benny Feilhaber, who
21:10
Speaker 2: came out of nowhere in the actually was caught caught
21:16
Speaker 2: the eye of Ziggi Schmid. Back when Benny was walking
21:20
Speaker 2: on to U c l A, Ziggy put him in
21:23
Speaker 2: the U twenty national team. Nobody had any idea who
21:25
Speaker 2: this kid was. Man marked Messi at the U twenty
21:29
Speaker 2: World Cup in a game that the US won. That
21:33
Speaker 2: was the only loss that Argentina suffered even that U
21:39
Speaker 2: twenty World Cup. Messi of course went on to win
21:41
Speaker 2: the Golden Boot and Golden Ball and all that, and
21:44
Speaker 2: then went on to have a really kind of weird
21:47
Speaker 2: club career. But for the national team to have whenever
21:50
Speaker 2: he played, he was so good, and I remembered running
21:53
Speaker 2: the numbers on it, and the US's plus minus when
21:57
Speaker 2: he was on the field was absurd. It was because
22:00
Speaker 2: he unlocked so much for Landon and Clint and Josie,
22:04
Speaker 2: and he also allowed, like Michael Bradley to be more
22:07
Speaker 2: of a sort of a cover the entire field, while
22:10
Speaker 2: Benny would sort of just run the show and organize.
22:13
Speaker 2: I loved watching him play, but he only ended up
22:17
Speaker 2: with about forty caps, and that always disappointed me.
22:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's a good call. Definitely, a great
22:25
Speaker 1: player in midfield made everybody else around them better, And
22:28
Speaker 1: I think that's that's what you're saying. And I think
22:31
Speaker 1: in the spirit of what we're putting together here, we're
22:33
Speaker 1: talking about guys that maybe deserved a little bit more. Yet,
22:37
Speaker 1: I do feel like, you know, forty caps for the
22:40
Speaker 1: national team is significant. You know, it's it's not a
22:43
Speaker 1: couple of caps. He did play a significant role on
22:46
Speaker 1: the team, and I think because of his position, he
22:48
Speaker 1: was likely always going to be a little bit of
22:51
Speaker 1: a secondary type of supportive player. So I do agree
22:56
Speaker 1: with you Benny was a great player and one that
22:59
Speaker 1: I think, you know, in particular, I think he ended
23:01
Speaker 1: in Kansas City Rights, so he ended with a good
23:06
Speaker 1: career there, and I think a lot of people following
23:09
Speaker 1: him there, and I think he in general had a
23:12
Speaker 1: good career, and overall, I think forty caps is it's
23:15
Speaker 1: a significant role in a player that certainly, you know,
23:20
Speaker 1: when they put together a Hall of Fame type list,
23:23
Speaker 1: you know, the name is one that comes up.
23:25
Speaker 2: The goal he scored against Mexico in the two thousand
23:28
Speaker 2: and seven Gold Cup Final, one of the all time
23:31
Speaker 2: great goals. The US has ever scored, period, but especially
23:35
Speaker 2: coming against that team in a final. And then, of
23:37
Speaker 2: course the play he makes against Spain in the Confederation's
23:42
Speaker 2: Cup semi final to set up Clint Dempsey's shocking goal
23:46
Speaker 2: in that one that was you know, those are the
23:50
Speaker 2: two career highlights for Benny feil Hobber with the national team.
23:54
Speaker 2: His ability to get out of that Spanish press in
23:57
Speaker 2: central midfield and then make a positive play and lead
24:02
Speaker 2: to one of the most famous wins in US national
24:05
Speaker 2: team history. And a player I just really liked watching.
24:08
Speaker 2: I also really liked watching the two guys that you
24:12
Speaker 2: have listed at number five, because your top five is
24:16
Speaker 2: actually a top six.
24:17
Speaker 1: It is a top six. But I will I'll have
24:20
Speaker 1: the two at number five tide, just as I did
24:23
Speaker 1: last week on our other list. I had a little
24:27
Speaker 1: bit of a category here. You know. John O'Brien is
24:31
Speaker 1: a player that you know, you've heard people like Brian
24:34
Speaker 1: dun Seth who we've had on the show, uh and
24:38
Speaker 1: and Clint Mathews who we've had on the show talk
24:41
Speaker 1: a little bit about the quality that he had. You know,
24:46
Speaker 1: unfortunately he had a lot of injuries, but he was
24:48
Speaker 1: a player one of the first ones to go to
24:49
Speaker 1: i AX and actually make a difference.
24:52
Speaker 2: He was a.
24:53
Speaker 1: Great midfield sort of leader, even as at at a
24:57
Speaker 1: young age. I think I recalled telling the Historian, which
25:01
Speaker 1: you know I played right towards the end of my career.
25:04
Speaker 1: You know, he came on on the team and I
25:08
Speaker 1: remember I lost the ball in midfield and he said
25:10
Speaker 1: something to me, and I was, you know, I was.
25:13
Speaker 1: I was impressed by the fact that such a young
25:15
Speaker 1: player could kind of correct me, and he had that
25:18
Speaker 1: type of leadership personality on the field, and so yeah,
25:24
Speaker 1: you know, John O'Brien was a great player. I will
25:27
Speaker 1: also add the next one, which is Rick Davis. You know,
25:30
Speaker 1: Rick Davis is a great connector I think from the
25:33
Speaker 1: past to the present. Rick was one that played, you know,
25:38
Speaker 1: in the old days in the NASL for the Cosmos
25:40
Speaker 1: at first one was one one of the few Americans
25:43
Speaker 1: who actually excelled in the NASL, which was very difficult
25:47
Speaker 1: because the NASL was basically mostly foreigners. And he was
25:51
Speaker 1: one of the ones that played a significant role and
25:54
Speaker 1: then connected us sort of to the future.
25:56
Speaker 2: You know.
25:56
Speaker 1: He was on the nineteen eighty eight Olympic team, but
26:01
Speaker 1: he was a very good player, great skill in the
26:04
Speaker 1: center of the field, rarely made a mistake, could see
26:07
Speaker 1: the field really well, and I had all the skills
26:10
Speaker 1: of a great player. Unfortunately, the reason I'm thinking he's
26:14
Speaker 1: underrated is because he played at a time but we
26:17
Speaker 1: really ended up having the bulk of his let's say,
26:21
Speaker 1: the best part of his career was at a time
26:23
Speaker 1: when we didn't really have a league, and because of that,
26:26
Speaker 1: I think most people won't know him.
26:28
Speaker 2: Yeah. The same thing applies to the guy who I
26:30
Speaker 2: have number four on my list, teammate of yours in
26:33
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety Mike Wendishman, classy left footed defender. I think
26:39
Speaker 2: he'd be a sort of a Tim Reen comparison if
26:44
Speaker 2: you had to, you know, plug and play him today.
26:47
Speaker 2: He was he the captain in nineteen ninety. Yeah, he
26:51
Speaker 2: was a captain for you guys in nineteen ninety and
26:54
Speaker 2: then he retired right after that. He could have could
26:57
Speaker 2: have kept going like he would have been good for
26:59
Speaker 2: it least a couple of years in MLS, but he
27:04
Speaker 2: called it quits. I think he played in footsal as
27:06
Speaker 2: well until about ninety two. I just remember watching that
27:11
Speaker 2: team and the way he had a knack for calming
27:14
Speaker 2: the game down from the back, which was a developing
27:19
Speaker 2: trait among American defenders at that time. Tip.
27:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm really gonna add only one thing. I
27:28
Speaker 1: think he had the personality. You know, at times we
27:32
Speaker 1: mentioned on this show how I feel like I was
27:35
Speaker 1: fortunate because I was surrounded at that time with although
27:39
Speaker 1: not the best players we've ever had, I think the
27:41
Speaker 1: players that had the strongest personality because we needed it.
27:45
Speaker 1: We really were nobodies at the time, and we had
27:48
Speaker 1: to play against the best teams in the world. And
27:50
Speaker 1: yet I think no one was scared, and I think
27:52
Speaker 1: no one represented that better than Mike Wendishman. And I
27:55
Speaker 1: think that's why he was the captain of the team.
27:58
Speaker 1: He was a guy that was never scared, had always
28:00
Speaker 1: you know, pushed the team and and because of that,
28:04
Speaker 1: I think it was, you know, one of the one
28:06
Speaker 1: of the key figures for the sort of the turn
28:10
Speaker 1: of soccer in the country. So I think this is
28:12
Speaker 1: a great call.
28:14
Speaker 2: Is it? Team tim reim comparison? The right one in
28:16
Speaker 2: your mind? Is that the player, that modern player that
28:19
Speaker 2: Mike reminds you of the most, or someone else come
28:23
Speaker 2: to mind.
28:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I can't, I can't think of anyone
28:26
Speaker 1: else I would come to mind, but I would see
28:28
Speaker 1: Mike Wendishman as likely not quite Let's let's just say
28:34
Speaker 1: Tim's Ream's best moments, and I think Mike Wendishman didn't
28:38
Speaker 1: quite have the skill set that Tim Reim had, you know,
28:41
Speaker 1: in terms of playing out of the back, let's say.
28:46
Speaker 1: But I also think that Mike Wendishman was a little
28:48
Speaker 1: bit tougher when it came to like tackles and and
28:52
Speaker 1: just having the personality to push guys around. I think
28:55
Speaker 1: he was a little bit more of that.
28:58
Speaker 2: Take us to your number four on the list.
29:00
Speaker 1: So my number four, I'm going to make it really
29:01
Speaker 1: short because this was a guest on our show a
29:04
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, and that's Clint Mathis to me,
29:07
Speaker 1: one of the best players to have ever played the game,
29:10
Speaker 1: one of the best players to have ever put on
29:12
Speaker 1: a national team uniform. Yet if you were to do
29:16
Speaker 1: a poll of you know, one hundred top journalists likely
29:21
Speaker 1: or fans who have watched the national team over years,
29:24
Speaker 1: likely none of them will put Clint Mathis on the
29:29
Speaker 1: list of top players. And I think because of that,
29:31
Speaker 1: I say he's one of the most underrated players.
29:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, his prime was very short for the national team,
29:38
Speaker 2: but it was spectacular the original Dosa Sero. Like Gerafria
29:43
Speaker 2: against Mexico in Ohio. Clint comes on for an injured
29:48
Speaker 2: Brian McBride about twenty twenty five minutes into that game,
29:52
Speaker 2: or actually Clint came on for Claudio. Claudio and Brian
29:55
Speaker 2: both got injured and Clint and Josh Wolf both came
29:59
Speaker 2: on changed the game. Clint played it incredible, like forty
30:04
Speaker 2: yard outside of the boot Travella through ball to Josh
30:08
Speaker 2: that led to the first goal, and then, of course,
30:12
Speaker 2: two years later he scores one of the great goals
30:14
Speaker 2: that the US has ever scored in the World Cup.
30:17
Speaker 2: He had it all to time, He really did. He
30:19
Speaker 2: was my favorite player to watch for a couple of years.
30:21
Speaker 2: There injuries and maybe a little bit off field stuff
30:26
Speaker 2: cut his career short, which was a shamee, But man,
30:30
Speaker 2: he left an impression. The guy who I have number
30:33
Speaker 2: three on my list did not really leave an impression
30:37
Speaker 2: for anybody, and that's kind of a compliment. For center back,
30:39
Speaker 2: I have Matt Beesler, who was rock solid during that
30:44
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen World Cup qualifying cycle. He was actually ahead
30:49
Speaker 2: of Tim Ring in the center back depth chart. Their
30:53
Speaker 2: same age played the same position. Matt Beeesler and Tim
30:55
Speaker 2: Rim played it similarly. I think that Beaesler was tougher
30:59
Speaker 2: in the tackle at that point in time and an organizer,
31:03
Speaker 2: a guy who just like kept his head down, did
31:05
Speaker 2: not make mistakes. Unfortunately for him, the one thing we
31:09
Speaker 2: all remember is him getting absolutely trucked by Romelo Vukaku
31:13
Speaker 2: against Belchium in that round of sixteen game. But he
31:17
Speaker 2: met He was just like the quintessential keep the floor
31:20
Speaker 2: high and keep the ball moving center back.
31:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there's there's no better compliment for a defender.
31:28
Speaker 1: And this is a great point that you start with
31:30
Speaker 1: with with Matt Beezler because obviously I was Urgen Klinsman's
31:34
Speaker 1: assistant coach in that twenty fourteen World Cups. I know
31:37
Speaker 1: Matt really well first as a person, which is, you know,
31:41
Speaker 1: great person, great guy, makes the whole team better, liked
31:44
Speaker 1: by everyone. And I know that a lot of fans
31:46
Speaker 1: are like, oh, yeah, well because he liked him doesn't
31:48
Speaker 1: mean he's good, no, But on top of it, he's good.
31:51
Speaker 1: And I think there's no better compliment for a defender
31:54
Speaker 1: who had such a long career than to say, you
31:57
Speaker 1: don't remember a lot of what he did. And and
32:00
Speaker 1: that's why this is a great call, because that was
32:03
Speaker 1: Matt Beesler, you know. And and by the way, it
32:06
Speaker 1: is he still playing in Kansas City. It seemed like
32:10
Speaker 1: he just went on and on, right, it never ended
32:12
Speaker 1: because it was the same in his professional career. You don't,
32:16
Speaker 1: you don't, actually, and I know you you think about
32:19
Speaker 1: that play with Lukaku, But Lukaku did that to everyone, really,
32:22
Speaker 1: I mean the best Lukaku did that, you know, to
32:25
Speaker 1: the best player, best defenders in the world. So I
32:28
Speaker 1: agree with you. Matt was one of those guys. But
32:30
Speaker 1: that was that was his role. And I think if Matt,
32:33
Speaker 1: you know, was still playing, he would still be the
32:35
Speaker 1: same guy, the guy that didn't make the mistakes and
32:37
Speaker 1: the guy that that uh but but but the guy
32:41
Speaker 1: that you had on your starting team always right. And
32:43
Speaker 1: so because of that, I think, you know, Matt is
32:47
Speaker 1: certainly deserving of that.
32:49
Speaker 2: Another guy from that era is your number three.
32:53
Speaker 1: Well my number, my number three I can't talk enough
32:56
Speaker 1: about because Jermaine Jones has been one of my favorite
33:00
Speaker 1: players of all time. Matter of fact, if I had
33:04
Speaker 1: if I had to say, you know, name me a
33:06
Speaker 1: top ten US players of all time, It'd be hard
33:10
Speaker 1: for me not to put them there because I knew personally,
33:14
Speaker 1: I saw every day what he could do. He was
33:16
Speaker 1: one of the first US players to be not only
33:23
Speaker 1: hard on the tackle, extremely hard on the tackle, extremely
33:27
Speaker 1: intense mentally on the field, but could also deliver a
33:32
Speaker 1: ball with the right foot or left foot over sixty
33:35
Speaker 1: yards to somebody's chest or on somebody's run. And I
33:40
Speaker 1: think that's a quality that we didn't have Americans. We
33:43
Speaker 1: didn't have other Americans that could do that. You know.
33:46
Speaker 1: Sometimes when I talked about Clint Mathis, I talked about
33:50
Speaker 1: the fact that he could take a free kick with
33:51
Speaker 1: the right foot or the left foot, which is something
33:53
Speaker 1: that most people can't do, But then he had a
33:55
Speaker 1: thousand other qualities. Jermaine Jones was another one of those
33:58
Speaker 1: players that I think most people will remember Jermaine for
34:02
Speaker 1: just being a hard player, but Jermaine was tremendously skillful,
34:06
Speaker 1: and he had all of the qualities of a top
34:10
Speaker 1: notch either eight or six. He could do both, but
34:13
Speaker 1: he was a heavyweight on the field playing against lightweights,
34:17
Speaker 1: and I loved everything about him.
34:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the opposite of Matt Beaesler. Right, you don't
34:21
Speaker 2: remember the players from Matt Beeesler. You remember a lot
34:25
Speaker 2: of what Jermaine did. Nothing more than that that goal
34:27
Speaker 2: against Portugal. He absolutely laced that one. I'm going to
34:32
Speaker 2: go back about ten years before that for my number
34:35
Speaker 2: two pick, Chris Armis. And the reason people don't really
34:40
Speaker 2: remember Chris Armis as a national team players because he
34:43
Speaker 2: the poor guy, had the worst luck. He got injured
34:47
Speaker 2: right towards acl right before the two thousand and two
34:49
Speaker 2: World Cup. Now that opened the door for Pablo Mastroeni,
34:52
Speaker 2: who went on to have a fantastic World Cup and
34:55
Speaker 2: a fantastic career, but he was behind Chris Armis in
34:58
Speaker 2: the depth chart, and then he was Chris Armis again
35:01
Speaker 2: in two thousand and six, and Chris Armas got injured
35:04
Speaker 2: again in two thousand and six. But in between all
35:08
Speaker 2: of those tough qualifiers, you go down to Guatemala, you
35:12
Speaker 2: go down to San Pedro Sula, you go to Mexico City.
35:15
Speaker 2: It was Chris Armis was basically the first name on
35:19
Speaker 2: Bruce Arena's team sheet, and he was nasty to play against.
35:22
Speaker 2: I remember in nineteen ninety nine it was one of
35:26
Speaker 2: his first caps. They were playing the US for playing
35:30
Speaker 2: in the Confederations Cup against Germany, and Andreas Mueller afterwards said,
35:36
Speaker 2: no man with children should have to play against that guy.
35:39
Speaker 2: About Chris Armis and that is about that is about
35:42
Speaker 2: the best compliment you could ever give a defensive midfielder.
35:45
Speaker 1: Tap Yeah, no question. You know, Chris was as tough
35:48
Speaker 1: as they came, but the opposite of Jermaine Jones, right
35:51
Speaker 1: because although he was really tough and he can get
35:54
Speaker 1: into tackles, and obviously there was you know, think about
35:58
Speaker 1: how long he was on the national team and obviously
36:01
Speaker 1: unfortunately he didn't play in the two World Cubs, which
36:04
Speaker 1: you're right, that's what most people will remember. He still
36:08
Speaker 1: had a long national team career and he's also one
36:12
Speaker 1: of those guys that you can't think about mistakes that
36:14
Speaker 1: he made when he played. But here's the difference with
36:17
Speaker 1: Chris Armis is that he would be as tough as
36:21
Speaker 1: they come, but yet you wanted to be his friend,
36:24
Speaker 1: right because you know Chris Armis as like if you know,
36:28
Speaker 1: for the people who are fortunate enough like myself to
36:31
Speaker 1: know him as a person, he's one of the nicest
36:34
Speaker 1: guys you'll ever meet, right, And although he was one
36:37
Speaker 1: of the toughest players, he was a super nice guy.
36:41
Speaker 1: And again another guy that was great to the locker room.
36:44
Speaker 1: Now and I'm seeing a little bit of your list,
36:46
Speaker 1: you know, with a bunch of guys who who were,
36:49
Speaker 1: you know, the end of the day, hard guys on
36:51
Speaker 1: the field and nice guys off the field, and I
36:53
Speaker 1: think certainly Chris Armis was one of those. And by
36:56
Speaker 1: the way, I think it's important to mention that, you know,
36:59
Speaker 1: it's so hard to play in a World Cup because
37:01
Speaker 1: so many things have to go right. You have to
37:04
Speaker 1: not only be a consistent player for the national team,
37:07
Speaker 1: but come into June of that every four years playing
37:11
Speaker 1: well enough to go to it and not get injured
37:14
Speaker 1: at the same time, so so many things have to
37:16
Speaker 1: go right that you can never take it for granted.
37:18
Speaker 1: And unfortunately for Chris Armis, those things didn't go right
37:21
Speaker 1: for him.
37:23
Speaker 2: Take us to your number two on your list.
37:26
Speaker 1: So my number two, Wow, what a fun player to watch.
37:29
Speaker 1: My number two is precky and precky.
37:32
Speaker 2: The job the job, you know.
37:34
Speaker 1: And and here's one thing that every player that you know,
37:38
Speaker 1: every every person listening who's watched Preky would say, you know,
37:43
Speaker 1: every player as we played against him, even in practice,
37:46
Speaker 1: we knew that the chop was coming, and he was
37:49
Speaker 1: still doing it and getting it around you, right, So
37:52
Speaker 1: of course it was easy to go around me because
37:54
Speaker 1: I couldn't defend anyway. But it happened to our best defenders.
37:57
Speaker 1: And by the way, it happened in MLS every year
38:00
Speaker 1: against every team in every game. And you know, if
38:03
Speaker 1: this he was one of those players like when you're
38:06
Speaker 1: a fan in the stands, you almost if you're a
38:09
Speaker 1: fan of the opposing team, you want you almost want
38:11
Speaker 1: to be yelling at your defender here comes the shop,
38:15
Speaker 1: because it's so obvious that it's coming. But he had
38:17
Speaker 1: such deception, He had such great skill. He was an
38:21
Speaker 1: excellent finisher, he was a good passer, He had all
38:25
Speaker 1: of the qualities of having been a US great. But
38:29
Speaker 1: yet because he got to the national team later in
38:32
Speaker 1: his career when he was older, he really didn't have,
38:36
Speaker 1: let's say, a real impact for the national team where
38:40
Speaker 1: you know, years down the road you're going to remember him.
38:43
Speaker 1: And that's unfortunate because he really was that once in
38:47
Speaker 1: a lifetime talent.
38:49
Speaker 2: It would have been nice to see him on that
38:50
Speaker 2: ninety team if he had been able to get his
38:53
Speaker 2: citizens citizenship ten years earlier. He of course had that
38:56
Speaker 2: amazing game against against Brazil in the one zero win,
39:02
Speaker 2: the Casey Keller game, really because that was Casey's magnum opus,
39:06
Speaker 2: my number one guy. Had a fantastic career. He was
39:11
Speaker 2: one of the best players at the two thousand and
39:13
Speaker 2: two World Cup. He had a long career in the Bundesliga,
39:17
Speaker 2: playing mostly defensive midfield but also some right midfield for
39:21
Speaker 2: DC United in the early nineties or the mid nineties,
39:25
Speaker 2: that great DC dynasty. He was a key player. I'm
39:28
Speaker 2: talking about Tony Sene. Tony SENNI. Anybody who watched him
39:33
Speaker 2: play saw that incredible athleticism, fluid grace. They called him
39:38
Speaker 2: the big Cat because of the way he moved. But
39:40
Speaker 2: he was also so skillful on the ball. I mean,
39:43
Speaker 2: that's why he was able to play in midfield and
39:45
Speaker 2: in the Bundesliga at a high level for a while.
39:48
Speaker 2: If Tony Sanni was coming around now, tab I think
39:52
Speaker 2: he would be a fifty sixty million dollar center back.
39:56
Speaker 2: Like any team in the world would see him and say, oh,
39:58
Speaker 2: six foot three can jump out of the gym, comfortable,
40:02
Speaker 2: comfortable on the ball, like an attacker can dribble through
40:05
Speaker 2: that back line and carry the ball and compromise every
40:08
Speaker 2: other team's defensive shape. We just didn't think about center
40:12
Speaker 2: backs having that skill set thirty years ago. So like
40:16
Speaker 2: when I think back, like if you could take one
40:18
Speaker 2: player from you know, two thousand and two team and
40:21
Speaker 2: drop him into this current team, for me, it would
40:24
Speaker 2: be Tony sin Up. But not to play as an
40:26
Speaker 2: overlapping fullback, which is what he was twenty five thirty
40:29
Speaker 2: years ago, but to play as a center back in
40:31
Speaker 2: the modern game.
40:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he was almost almost too skillful at
40:35
Speaker 1: the time to be playing that position. You know, Tony had.
40:40
Speaker 1: First of all, he had an amazing career in MLS,
40:42
Speaker 1: but he also had a great career overseas you know,
40:47
Speaker 1: by the way, an another great guy, right that made
40:50
Speaker 1: the team better, That was likable, but yet it was hard.
40:54
Speaker 1: He made every team he was on better and and
40:58
Speaker 1: certainly a great pick I think for your number one,
41:01
Speaker 1: because although you could say, well, you know it is
41:05
Speaker 1: he really underrated because he did play for the national team.
41:09
Speaker 1: He was great for the national team, and people knew
41:12
Speaker 1: him and people know Tony sane and by the way,
41:16
Speaker 1: he's doing great work now in his right in his
41:18
Speaker 1: post career, which you know I would hate not to mention,
41:22
Speaker 1: but he does great work with that too. But yeah,
41:24
Speaker 1: I love this call because Tony is a guy that
41:29
Speaker 1: I don't think you'd have many people disagreeing that you
41:31
Speaker 1: wish that he would be a little bit more recognized
41:34
Speaker 1: than he is.
41:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then take us to your number one, a
41:38
Speaker 2: guy who I will say most modern fans think of
41:42
Speaker 2: first as coach rather than a player because of the
41:45
Speaker 2: great work he's done with us he has national teams,
41:48
Speaker 2: and then also for a while with L Salvador.
41:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, so my first, my number one would be Hugo
41:53
Speaker 1: pees And that's exactly the reason why I think you
41:57
Speaker 1: just said that most people wouldn't remember Hugo. I think
42:00
Speaker 1: Hugo was not Not only is he now remembered now,
42:04
Speaker 1: but I think was not respected enough before. But when
42:08
Speaker 1: I looked at Hugo, and I've said this to Hugo myself,
42:11
Speaker 1: that as I was coming along to the national team
42:13
Speaker 1: and he was only a couple of years older than me,
42:17
Speaker 1: that's the guy that I looked up to because he
42:20
Speaker 1: had all he was the closest thing to Diego Maradona
42:24
Speaker 1: that we've ever had on the national team. He was
42:27
Speaker 1: very similar in the way he played. He was very
42:30
Speaker 1: similar in the way he moved and the way he
42:32
Speaker 1: caught and the way he got around players. Hugo was definitely,
42:37
Speaker 1: I think, unfortunately twenty years ahead of his time, because
42:41
Speaker 1: had Hugo come along even ten years later, he would
42:44
Speaker 1: have been an MLS superstar and would arrival every foreign
42:51
Speaker 1: signing that MLS could could have made. And by that
42:54
Speaker 1: I mean like serious names, and I'm talking about like
42:57
Speaker 1: Marco Etcheveri or Carlos valdor like the top of the
43:01
Speaker 1: top MLS guys at the time. Hugo, I think, to
43:04
Speaker 1: me was every bit as good. And unfortunately he's a
43:08
Speaker 1: name that most people would not recognize.
43:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, go into the YouTube archive see if you could
43:13
Speaker 2: find some clips of Hugo on the ball. Because he
43:16
Speaker 2: had that creative spark that makes the game beautiful and
43:20
Speaker 2: makes US teams better that we saw it happen a
43:22
Speaker 2: lot in the mid late eighties for that US team
43:26
Speaker 2: that TAB was just joining up with, and Hugo had
43:30
Speaker 2: a big part in getting the US to the nineteen
43:33
Speaker 2: ninety World Cup for Us, it's time for one more
43:37
Speaker 2: break and we'll be back and Tab will tell us
43:39
Speaker 2: bring us inside the locker room back in nineteen ninety
43:44
Speaker 2: eight against Iran. Thank you to all for listening to
43:47
Speaker 2: Inside American Soccer. Please rate, review and subscribe. All right,
44:02
Speaker 2: welcome back to Inside American Soccer. And look, it's a
44:06
Speaker 2: tough time to do this with world events, but we
44:10
Speaker 2: should talk about it in Back in nineteen ninety eight,
44:13
Speaker 2: the US got drawn into the same group as Iran
44:18
Speaker 2: for the World Cup, and it was politically fraught at
44:22
Speaker 2: the time. And we're lucky to have someone who was
44:25
Speaker 2: there in person to tell us about that game, to
44:28
Speaker 2: build up and then right beforehand the pictures and you know,
44:33
Speaker 2: exchange of gifts and then the game itself.
44:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. It was actually, it was actually a
44:39
Speaker 1: little bit of a rough time because in general that
44:43
Speaker 1: France nineteen ninety eight World Cup was a little bit
44:46
Speaker 1: politically charged. Anyway, there was a lot going on in
44:49
Speaker 1: the world, you know. I remember when we got to
44:54
Speaker 1: Paris to play our first game against Germany. I was
44:57
Speaker 1: on the bench the first game to start against against Germany,
45:01
Speaker 1: and I remember looking from the bench and seeing all
45:04
Speaker 1: the sharpshooters at the top of the stadium kind of
45:06
Speaker 1: pointing down to the people. So just you know, this
45:09
Speaker 1: was US against Germany, so it was already there was
45:14
Speaker 1: it was already a politically charged World Cup where there
45:17
Speaker 1: was a lot of security. I think we had a
45:20
Speaker 1: couple different helicopters following our bus to uh to the stadium,
45:24
Speaker 1: where normally normally you have one. I think there was
45:27
Speaker 1: multiple at the time. There was you know, all kinds
45:30
Speaker 1: of police cars everywhere. It was. It was not the
45:33
Speaker 1: norm of a World Cup, although of course there's always
45:37
Speaker 1: you know, most fans you know, won't know, but you know,
45:41
Speaker 1: obviously all the World Cup teams are always well protected
45:44
Speaker 1: with a lot of security when you travel to games.
45:46
Speaker 1: This is this is the norm, right, you have police
45:49
Speaker 1: in front, you have police in the back. Normally you
45:51
Speaker 1: may have a helicopter following the team as well. But
45:54
Speaker 1: there was this was different. You know, this was my
45:56
Speaker 1: third World Cup and I noticed that this was different
45:59
Speaker 1: than any other. And here we were, you know, playing
46:02
Speaker 1: the Germany game, and and and you're seeing that, you know,
46:05
Speaker 1: sort of soldiers all around the stadium, and it was
46:09
Speaker 1: a little bit crazy, and so of course, then we're
46:11
Speaker 1: drawn in a group with Iran, and you know, because
46:14
Speaker 1: of the you know, the the political part of us
46:18
Speaker 1: and Iran, that was always going to be politically charged,
46:22
Speaker 1: regardless of the time. So I think it got magnified
46:25
Speaker 1: because of the time we were living and we were
46:28
Speaker 1: going into that game, and I remember that all people
46:31
Speaker 1: focus on was, you know, the political tension between one
46:35
Speaker 1: country and the next. And I think from a playing standpoint,
46:38
Speaker 1: and this is more sort of a message for the fans,
46:41
Speaker 1: but from a playing standpoint, you know, we're just playing
46:44
Speaker 1: a game. You know, we're just playing a game. We're
46:46
Speaker 1: just athletes playing a game. Of course, we're defending our country,
46:49
Speaker 1: they're defending theirs. But at the end of the game,
46:51
Speaker 1: it's just a game. If anything. You know, sports are
46:54
Speaker 1: put together so that people can forget a lot of
46:57
Speaker 1: the problems, not so that so that we can bring
47:00
Speaker 1: more problems.
47:02
Speaker 2: Two people.
47:03
Speaker 1: And so from an athletic standpoint, we just wanted to
47:06
Speaker 1: play the game. We didn't want to talk about politics.
47:09
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, although you know, it was
47:13
Speaker 1: a difficult time because of it, I think there was
47:16
Speaker 1: the norm, there was the norm of team shaking hands
47:19
Speaker 1: and depending on how you got drawn up, whether you
47:22
Speaker 1: were Team A or Team B. I'm sure all the
47:25
Speaker 1: fans have seen it. But you know, when the teams
47:27
Speaker 1: line up for a game, one team comes across and
47:31
Speaker 1: shakes the hands of the other team, and the way
47:33
Speaker 1: that works is you get drawn just by chance to
47:36
Speaker 1: be Team A or Team B. We I think we
47:39
Speaker 1: were drawn at the time to be Team A. And
47:41
Speaker 1: because of it, you know, Team B had to come
47:43
Speaker 1: across and shake our hands. And I think there was
47:46
Speaker 1: some sort of argument over the federations because I think
47:50
Speaker 1: no one wanted to come across and shake hands. So
47:53
Speaker 1: but I think a great thing happened. And the great
47:55
Speaker 1: thing that happened is that for the first time, both
47:58
Speaker 1: teams decided, hey, you know what, let's leave politics aside
48:01
Speaker 1: and let's take the picture together. And I think the
48:04
Speaker 1: one thing that we did that I think was great
48:06
Speaker 1: to show the world at the end of the day,
48:08
Speaker 1: this is just a game, was that both teams, after
48:11
Speaker 1: we took we took the field, we got together in
48:14
Speaker 1: the center of the field and we did a single picture.
48:17
Speaker 1: Instead of having our own team picture, we did a
48:19
Speaker 1: single picture in which both teams were together, one American,
48:23
Speaker 1: one Irani, one American one Irani, and I think it
48:26
Speaker 1: was a great moment. I think not just for our
48:29
Speaker 1: federation and for around, but I think for the world
48:32
Speaker 1: to see that, you know, we're just athletes trying to
48:34
Speaker 1: bring people together.
48:36
Speaker 2: It was a great moment before the game, and then
48:39
Speaker 2: the game itself happened and that was less great. It
48:42
Speaker 2: was a two to one final, if I recall, and
48:46
Speaker 2: I think Claudio hit the crossbar once, Brian McBride maybe
48:49
Speaker 2: hit the crossbar or the post twice. It was one
48:53
Speaker 2: of those where the soccer gods just seemed to be
48:56
Speaker 2: against the US on the day. That was pretty dark
49:00
Speaker 2: for me as a fan. I can't imagine it was
49:02
Speaker 2: much more pleasant for you as a player on the day.
49:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was difficult because iron we were the better
49:09
Speaker 1: team on the day. There was no question we dominated
49:11
Speaker 1: the game. We should have been up at halftime already.
49:14
Speaker 1: And like you said, I think we hit the post
49:16
Speaker 1: three or four times. Unfortunately, Iran had a couple of
49:20
Speaker 1: players up front who had speed and they got us
49:24
Speaker 1: on the counter a couple times. And you know, these
49:26
Speaker 1: are things that happened, and it happened in soccer, right
49:29
Speaker 1: Otherwise you wouldn't have to play the games if the
49:31
Speaker 1: better team won every time. That day we were the
49:34
Speaker 1: better team. Unfortunately we lost. And because we lost, and
49:37
Speaker 1: because the rest of our group was Germany and Yugoslavia,
49:41
Speaker 1: you know, we were of course going to lose the
49:44
Speaker 1: other two games as well, and we did, and we
49:46
Speaker 1: ended up last not only in that group, but last
49:49
Speaker 1: in the whole World Cup, and that sort of repainted
49:52
Speaker 1: the picture of that World Cup having been likely one
49:54
Speaker 1: of the worst World Cups that we ever had.
49:57
Speaker 2: But you ended up actually playing with one of the
49:59
Speaker 2: around and players in MLS afterwards, Mohammed Khakpor, who was
50:04
Speaker 2: their captain on the day.
50:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, you know, really interesting because you know
50:10
Speaker 1: Muhammed who's in the obviously we'rell in the picture together.
50:13
Speaker 1: He ended up in Metro Stars later on, and we
50:15
Speaker 1: became really good friends, and you know, you become friends
50:20
Speaker 1: on the team. Obviously everyone's friends in the locker room,
50:22
Speaker 1: but we were friends off the field to the point
50:25
Speaker 1: where like he and his wife came over my house
50:28
Speaker 1: for dinner, we'd go to his house for dinner, so
50:31
Speaker 1: we were we were actually very close. Super guy and
50:35
Speaker 1: uh yeah, great person to be around.
50:37
Speaker 2: So you got to try some Persian Iranian cuisine. Man,
50:41
Speaker 2: you got to try all of the goods, the lamb,
50:43
Speaker 2: the rise, the whole.
50:45
Speaker 1: Thing right right exactly, you know it was. It was
50:49
Speaker 1: actually great because it was I think multiple times that
50:51
Speaker 1: we got together with our families and we really we
50:55
Speaker 1: really had a great time.
50:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, good times back then. Hopefully good time times to
51:00
Speaker 2: come for everyone involved US Iranian around the world. Fingers
51:05
Speaker 2: crossed on that. And thank you Tab for the story,
51:08
Speaker 2: and thank you to all for listening to Inside American Soccer.
51:12
Speaker 2: Please rate, review, and subscribe, Continue to leave your questions
51:17
Speaker 2: in comments on all of our platforms, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,
51:21
Speaker 2: and YouTube, and we will see you all next week.