Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Understanding Why People Leave Jobs in the Culinary Industry: Insights and Solutions Ep. 92

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Understanding Why People Leave Jobs in the Culinary Industry: Insights and Solutions Ep. 92 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello Chefs, This is Chefs PSA Podcast.
0:02
I'm your host Andre Natera. On today's episode, we're going
0:05
to talk about why people leave jobs.
0:07
Stay tuned. So before we begin, if you're
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chef Brains, go to chefspsa.com. You get all my books there,
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including Culinary Leadership Fundamentals, and Line Cook
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books for most chefs. I have a few other books that
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I've written including Kitchen Art of War, more philosophical
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if you like that sort of Sun Tzu style of writing.
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Babsu Good Chef, which is a story about culinary mentorship,
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how not to be the biggest idiot in the kitchen, which is
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self-explanatory. I just put out a new one that
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Important Chefs. PS As you can download the
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e-book for free, as well as a few other ebooks that I have out
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there for free, including Food Cost Mastery, which is a
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companion to this show. three-part series that I did on
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Food Cost 100 Basic Recipes, an ebook that I wrote using AI,
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cookbook. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think
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I was the first a critical path to opening up a restaurant.
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As well as there's a video course on culinary leadership
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fundamentals. If you just want to talk
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business, it's all there available on chefs psa.com.
1:37
You go check that out. So I want to talk about what
1:39
started the conversation for today's episode, I put up a post
1:43
the other day on Instagram that said when someone quits and you
1:47
convince them to stay, they still don't like working there.
1:50
And that started a lot of conversation back and forth
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between myself and some other chefs.
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The only reason I put that post up is because I've learned my
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lesson every time I've convinced someone to stay.
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Lo and behold, a few weeks later, they end up quitting
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anyway. It takes a lot of courage for
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someone to come to you and tell you that they're quitting.
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And by the time they've come to you and and let you know that
2:07
they're putting in their two weeks, that they don't like
2:10
working for you and they don't like working in the place that
2:13
you run. They've thought about this for
2:15
quite some time. They've talked to loved ones,
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they've talked to family members, they've talked to close
2:19
friends. They've played out the scenario
2:21
in their mind multiple times before you.
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They even had the conversation with you.
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So there you are as the chef, and you convince them to stay.
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A lot of times there's empty promises of more money.
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We'll fix your schedule, we'll work on the work life balance,
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and it's on you as the chef to make sure that you're following
2:36
through with whatever commitments you've made to these
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individuals that have turned in notice.
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But what I've seen in my experience is most people don't
2:41
follow through. They placate you, they put a
2:44
Band-Aid on it, they tell you what you want to hear, and then
2:46
it's business as usual a few weeks later.
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Now, I mentioned a little bit earlier how this has happened to
2:51
me several times, and normally if I did talk them into staying
2:54
a little bit longer, I would be thinking in the back of my mind
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I need to hurry up and find a replacement because I know
2:59
they're going to quit again in two weeks.
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So you were just buying yourself a little bit of time because
3:03
once they've made that decision, they're already not happy.
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Even if they stay, they're still not happy with the job.
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And you have to know that. There has to be some self
3:10
reflection though as to why are they not happy.
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And so I put up a poll on my chef's PSA Instagram page and I
3:17
wanted to get to the root of the issue and understand why people
3:20
are quitting. Now I have my own thoughts, but
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I want to share some of the results with you.
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The first question I asked is, are you happy in your current
3:27
job? 67% of the people said yes and
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33% of them said no, which was very interesting to see.
3:34
It's important to see how much happiness plays a factor in
3:37
people leaving or staying. There's an old expression that
3:40
people don't leave a job that they like.
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They're not looking for a job when they're happy in their job.
3:45
And for all the things that could be said about making more
3:47
money in our culinary industry, and which by the way, I am fully
3:50
aware that everyone needs to make more money, Most people in
3:54
this industry know what they're getting themselves into.
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And if you've been in this industry for quite some time,
3:58
you know what to expect. You're not going to be surprised
4:00
at the pay in the industry. So when you're leaving for a
4:03
job, it's usually due to happiness.
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What drives happiness? The people that you work with,
4:08
your team, your boss, opportunity for growth,
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creativity, and then of course not feeling like you're being
4:14
taken advantage of, feeling like you're a part of the team,
4:17
you're contributing, being recognized.
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All of that is factoring into why people leave jobs, because
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if they are happy, like I said, they are not leaving.
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The next question that I asked was also very interesting.
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Would you quit for equal or more money?
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66% of them said they would quit for equal or more money, and 33%
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of them said they would stay. Now I have to take some
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liberties here with my thoughts on this because 33% wouldn't
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leave for more money. Most likely those people were
4:43
happy in their job, so if they're happy in their job,
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they're not looking for another job of those 66% that said they
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would leave for equal or more money.
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Now, I can't sit here and say how many of them meant more
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money and how many of them meant equal money, but it's
4:56
interesting that I put the word equal in there, and many people
4:58
were willing to leave their job for the same amount of pay.
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I should have rephrased it and said, would you leave for equal
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or less money? But everything's easy in
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hindsight, right? Financial incentives do work.
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Pay people what they deserve. I know I've said this before,
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Whenever I have the opportunity to make those financial
5:14
decisions, as the chef, I always want to be the one that pays the
5:17
most. I don't want anyone leaving my
5:20
kitchen because they can make more money, because the fact of
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the matter is, you can make more money.
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A new restaurant opens up. You're going to lose people if
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that new restaurant is in your neighborhood.
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Everyone wants to go to the new restaurant to learn the new
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techniques to work for the new chef.
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It's exciting. The grass is always greener on
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the other side and normally if you're opening up a new
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restaurant, and I've talked about this in previous podcasts,
5:41
you want to pay the most because you're going to attract top tier
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talent. So whenever there's a new
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restaurant opening, you as the chef have to remain vigilant to
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know that all your cooks are talking.
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They're finding out what the new place is paying, Their friends
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are going there, and they're calling them saying you should
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come work here. And if they're paying better
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than the competition already has a leg up.
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So if you want to keep your cooks from looking for other
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jobs, keep them happy, keep them paid well, pay them as much as
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you can. Because trust me, a restaurant
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cannot operate without good cooks.
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And if you have good cooks, pay them well.
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And think about the total compensation package that a chef
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or cook would have. So it's not just the salary.
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Total compensation nowadays look like PTO benefits, medical,
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dental, vacation pay. Some chefs I know offer gym
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memberships, meal plans, bus tickets, parking.
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If you work downtown and you don't offer parking, you're at a
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disadvantage, especially if parking is tough.
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So you want to think about all of that when you're building
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your total compensation package because that's what people
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factor do. They have four O1 KA.
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Lot of chefs and cooks are thinking long term, they want to
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get the four O 1K or the deferred compensation package.
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Not everyone is, but my advice. If you're looking for a job, you
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want to have as many perks as you can get.
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Get it all Parking, bus pass, 401K, deferred comp, PTO.
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All of it. Because all of that is going to
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add to your Peace of Mind and job security.
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I know I've left jobs not necessarily for better pay, but
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I've left jobs for a better overall compensation package,
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which includes job security, benefits, medical, etcetera.
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Because at the end of the day, you want to be taken care of and
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you want to feel like your employer has your best interest
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in mind. So if you want to keep your
7:17
people happy, give them everything that they need to
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remain happy and loyal to you. The next question that I asked
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them was why are you looking to leave?
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Was it money? 28% of them said yes.
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Was it their boss? 19% of them said the boss.
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More creativity, 34% said more creativity.
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And then another reason was 19. Now we just touched on money,
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but as you see based on this which was very interesting, only
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28% were looking to leave their job due to money.
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So again, money is not the biggest motivator.
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A good boss and a good kitchen team will make you want to stay.
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You'll want to work for someone that's mentoring you, coaching
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you, teaching you, helping you grow.
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Because not every kitchen has that.
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You could go work somewhere and make $0.50 more, but not have a
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mentor, Or you can stay where you are and have that close
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relationship, mentor, mentee, relationship with the chef and
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make $0.50 less. But that relationship is worth
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way more than those $0.50. I'm not really going to touch
8:14
too much on the other because we'll get into that a little bit
8:16
later. But I do want to talk about
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creativity, which was 34 percent. 34% of the people said
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that they wanted to leave their job because they didn't feel
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that it was creative enough. To me, this was the most
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interesting thing because chefs are passionate, they are
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creative, they are artists. They want to express, they want
8:32
to create, they want to learn, they want to improve, they want
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to iterate. And the only way you get to do
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that is through creativity. Now, a lot of restaurants have
8:41
standardized recipes, a system, And even though the chef may
8:44
have creativity, or the person who writes the menu may have
8:47
creativity, that might be the extent of it.
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So if you're a line cook and you've been doing these dishes
8:52
repetitively for months on end, you may know how to make the
8:55
dish with your eyes closed and so you feel like you're not
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learning. Now, there's something to be
8:59
said by doing something over and over and over again to gain
9:03
mastery. However, in today's day and age,
9:05
you could learn things much faster.
9:07
People have TikTok brain. They want to move at the speed
9:09
of light. They want to learn the next
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thing. Especially because they're
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looking at social media and they're seeing all the cool
9:14
things that the restaurant next door is doing or the restaurant
9:17
in Copenhagen is doing. They saw something where someone
9:19
was putting Pop Rocks in a dessert and they want to put Pop
9:21
Rocks in the dessert. Don't put Pop Rocks in the
9:23
dessert, by the way. And then the last thing I put up
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on this Instagram poll was for people to leave a comment.
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Tell me why you're looking to leave your job now.
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There was a very common theme that I noticed 46% of the people
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that responded and there was roughly around just over 200
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responses. And after going through all of
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them, 46% of them said it either had to do with growth, meaning
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ability to move upward through position, creativity or lack of
9:50
creativity or they felt like they weren't learning. 46% of
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the responses that I got that typed in those messages said
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that's why they wanted to leave their job, because they couldn't
10:00
express themselves enough or there wasn't enough growth.
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When I was a chef, I was a big believer in the expression grow
10:06
your own tomatoes, meaning promote from within, grow your
10:09
team. I put up this chef's PSA the
10:11
other day. If you can't find good cooks,
10:14
invest in the ones already in your kitchen.
10:16
And I mean that I I do truly live by that.
10:19
I will put everything into my team to help them and develop
10:21
them into great chefs because I want to build that trust and
10:24
rapport with them. I also want to see them grow and
10:27
succeed, which is the reason why I have this podcast.
10:29
I want to see all of you grow and succeed.
10:31
I want to show you the peek behind the curtain and bring you
10:33
the knowledge so that you could be successful in your job.
10:36
But when they are stopped and they feel like they can't
10:38
express themselves creatively or they're not learning because
10:41
maybe they don't have to put their special dish on the menu.
10:44
But at least the chef is introducing them to new
10:46
techniques and constantly levelling up.
10:49
So if you're the chef, you are placed in a place of great
10:52
responsibility. You need to find a way to make
10:55
sure that they are levelling up, that they're learning, that
10:58
you're introducing them to do things.
10:59
Continuing education. It doesn't always have to be
11:01
getting their dish on the menu. You can do a show and tell.
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You can do a family meal. You can take excursions, make
11:08
them feel like they are growing in the position, that old
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expression when growth stops, decay begins.
11:14
At a lot of shucks start to feel like they are decaying quickly
11:17
in their position. If they are not learning and
11:19
growing, also provide opportunities for them.
11:21
Explain the rules of the game. Let them know how to get
11:23
promoted, what is required. Don't make it vague, Outline it.
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Say you need to do this, this and this.
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Have one on ones with your team and explain to them what it is
11:32
that they need to do to improve. Set goals for them.
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Push them when they feel like they're growing.
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They're engaged. 12% of the typed in responses said they
11:41
were looking for money, which is interesting because that number
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was significantly lower than the pole.
11:47
So even though the pole was up, that was part of the earlier
11:50
questions. At the very end is when they got
11:53
to really type in what they wanted.
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And all those people that answered money early on wasn't
11:58
money later on. It was only 12% of the
12:00
responses. 17% of the people said it was the team.
12:03
That's what kept them there or that's what made them want to
12:05
leave. They were working in a kitchen
12:06
where they didn't get along with the team or the only reason they
12:09
want to stay is because of the team.
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And that team also included the chef and the culture.
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They were very loyal to the chef.
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They might not have liked the job, but they loved the person
12:17
they were working for. And they might not have liked
12:19
the money, but they loved the team that they were around, so
12:22
they felt like they were a part of something.
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The next one was a very interesting result.
12:26
Only 11% said it had something to do with work life balance.
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So whether that was your schedule or spending time with
12:33
loved ones, only 11% were saying it was work life balance.
12:36
Now I find this interesting because a lot of people talk
12:39
about work life balance like it's the top reason that they're
12:42
unhappy. But from the poll that I did and
12:45
the information I gathered, it wasn't work life balance.
12:47
It had to do with creativity and growth and learning.
12:51
Only 11% work life balance. Interesting. 1.6% mentioned job
12:55
security. So they felt like they were
12:58
secure, they weren't going to get fired, the restaurant wasn't
13:00
going to close or the hotel. Wherever they worked, they felt
13:02
secure in their job and it provided them a stable income.
13:05
They knew what to expect. And then happiness came in at
13:07
about 3%. So some people just said they
13:09
wanted to find their happiness and go elsewhere.
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Now happiness is very important and I think when all these other
13:14
things are met, you will be happy.
13:16
So sometimes you got to look at what's driving that happiness
13:18
question. I often get asked about burnout,
13:21
and one of the things that I think about with regards to
13:23
burnout is when you are doing something that you love, you are
13:26
less likely to get burned out. But when you're unhappy in the
13:29
job and you don't like the people that you're working with,
13:31
and you're not making enough money, and you're not being able
13:34
to be creative and contribute and feel recognized, that
13:37
burnout comes on a lot more quickly and you start looking
13:40
for another job, I want to share something with you.
13:41
It's called Maslov's Hierarchy of Needs, and it's a
13:44
psychological theory that categorizes human needs into
13:48
five basic levels. The first one is physiological
13:51
needs. So basically, do you have food
13:53
and shelter and housing? So like maybe the kitchen
13:56
equivalent of that would be are you making enough money to live,
13:59
to pay your rent and to support yourself and have food right?
14:02
That's the basic first level in the hierarchy of needs.
14:06
The second one in the hierarchy is safety, or your safety needs
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met. I think about how that relates
14:10
to the kitchen. Are you in a safe work
14:12
environment? You don't feel threatened.
14:13
You're working with people that you enjoy.
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This gets into that angry environment where you don't feel
14:19
safe. Maybe the kitchen is dangerous,
14:21
dirty, unsanitary. If those needs are not being
14:23
met, you might not want to be in that kitchen.
14:26
The third one in the hierarchy of needs is love and belonging,
14:29
which is interesting because you will spend more time with your
14:31
culinary family then you will a lot of times with your hometown.
14:34
Do you get along with them? Do you like being with them?
14:36
Are they good people? Are you learning?
14:38
Is their team building activities?
14:39
Like I said, a lot of people said the reason they were
14:41
staying in their job had to do with the team.
14:43
The 4th one in Maslov's hierarchy of needs is esteemed
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needs. Is there respect, Is there
14:48
acknowledgement, appreciation for your hard work, whether
14:51
that's through awards, positive momentum, promotions, growth?
14:55
I've talked about this before is that winning is contagious, but
14:58
unfortunately so is losing. So when you're on a winning team
15:01
and that momentum is going, you love being there.
15:03
It takes a very difficult term when you start going down the
15:05
slippery slope of losing because losing also becomes contagious.
15:09
If you've ever been in a kitchen where you just constantly win,
15:11
win, win, win, win, you don't want to leave.
15:13
You enjoy being around those people and those esteemed needs
15:16
are met. The last one is self
15:18
actualization needs. This is about achieving your
15:21
full potential as a chef. So this kind of goes back into
15:23
that growth. So one has to assume that most
15:26
people in our industry are getting the first few needs met
15:29
and the reason that they're looking to leave has to do with
15:33
the latter. Your esteem needs, Are you
15:35
belonging? Are you reaching your truest
15:37
potential through self actualization?
15:40
Becoming the chef that you want to be?
15:41
Cooking the food that you want to cook, expressing yourself
15:44
completely, whether that's through running a successful
15:47
business, running a successful kitchen, getting the awards that
15:51
you want, cooking the food that you want to create, being able
15:54
to make your food? That is when you are at the
15:56
pinnacle of your job. And I could tell you from my own
16:00
personal experience, the last job I had as a chef, I had all 5
16:03
needs met. And that is why I had a very
16:05
hard time leaving it. And I was there for five years.
16:07
And one of the things that I had said to myself was I'm not going
16:10
to leave this job for another chef job because it would be
16:13
very hard because I understood what was out there.
16:15
Not every job checked all the boxes, but the one I was in
16:18
checked all the boxes. And when you get in those jobs
16:20
that check all the boxes, it's a Unicorn.
16:22
You might not realize it, but you are truly in a Unicorn
16:25
situation and you want to stay there because it's our natural
16:28
inclination to start looking for things, looking for better,
16:30
looking for more as the grass greener on the other side.
16:33
And I can tell you that's not always the case.
16:34
Sit back, look at those five hierarchy of needs and are they
16:38
all being met in your current job.
16:40
And most likely, the one that's not being met is probably the
16:43
reason why you're looking for the next job.
16:45
If you're a chef, make sure that you're providing all of that.
16:48
Pay them well. Make them feel safe in your
16:50
kitchen. Give them a purpose and a sense
16:52
of belonging. Acknowledge them for their hard
16:54
work. Appreciate them.
16:55
Let them contribute. Allow them to grow and help them
16:58
achieve their fullest potential. Be their mentor.
17:00
And I guarantee you, if you do all those things, your turnover
17:02
will go down and those people who you convinced to stay will
17:06
no longer be unhappy that they stayed anyway.
17:10
That's it for today. If you want to support the show,
17:12
go to chefspsa.com. You get all the books, all the
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merge. Make sure you leave five stars
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I appreciate that. Thank you very much.
17:25
We'll see you next week. Hit the porno music?
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No. Spawn drink in the kitchen.
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Mix it. Drop the chef Dallas No fiction
17:32
Stirring up the beats. Heating up the session.
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Listen quotes classes incest on them.