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MTM : Interview with Joe Wolverton - Trump's Tariffs · More Than Medicine

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more than enough for the ills that plague our culture and our country.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hosted by author and physician, dr Robert Jackson, and his wife Carlotta and daughter Hannah Miller.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: So listen up, because the doctor is in.
• 0:22
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Welcome to More Than Medicine.
• 0:23
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson, bringing to you biblical insights and stories from the doctor's rusty, dusty scrapbook.
• 0:32
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Well, today I have a very special guest online.
• 0:36
  Dr.Robert Jackson: His name is Joe Wolverton, and Joe is a constitutional lawyer.
• 0:40
  Dr.Robert Jackson: And, Joe, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you to identify yourself and just tell my listeners a little bit about yourself.
• 0:47
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I know you've been on the program with me before, but I want you to re-identify yourself for my folks that may not have tuned into more than medicine previously.
• 0:59
  Joe Wolverton: Sure, yeah, joe Wolverton, I was a constitutional lawyer for many years.
• 1:04
  Joe Wolverton: I am from Memphis, tennessee, where I say a constitutional lawyer.
• 1:09
  Joe Wolverton: I specialized in Fourth Amendment work, that is to say, defending citizens against the illegal search and seizure by government.
• 1:35
  Joe Wolverton: I started writing for the New American in 2004,.
• 1:40
  Joe Wolverton: Just by, pretty much by accident, I knew somebody who knew somebody asked me to write for them and before you know it, I was writing for them all the time and kept doing that for about 20 years.
• 1:51
  Joe Wolverton: And then, about a year and a half ago, I was asked to join the staff of the John Birch Society full time and they created a position for me, the inaugural constitutional law scholar for the John Birch Society, and so anything that the society puts out regarding the Constitution, it goes through me first, so I can make sure that we say the right thing, and say it in the right way and make it to where people can understand, and so I was very honored by that.
• 2:24
  Joe Wolverton: And make it to where people can understand, and so I was very honored by that.
• 2:28
  Joe Wolverton: And so today my time is spent writing books.
• 2:30
  Joe Wolverton: I've had three of them published in the last year or so the last two years, I guess, I should say, and then writing articles for the New American on the topic of constitution, at least the constitutionality of things that are happening in the news and in history.
• 2:47
  Joe Wolverton: You know the way we can.
• 2:48
  Joe Wolverton: I guess my specialty is looking at history and applying it to the present and see how, if we read what the founders read, we might have the knowledge and the courage to do what the founders did and throw off the chains of tyranny and protect our liberty.
• 3:05
  Joe Wolverton: I hear you, and so that's what I do now, full time, and I am so grateful to our God for allowing me to do that as a job.
• 3:15
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I hear you.
• 3:16
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I hear you Well.
• 3:17
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I'm fascinated by the things that you do and I'm fascinated by the things that are written in the New American.
• 3:24
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I think I told you this previously, but I've been reading the New American and its forebearer, the review of the news, for since 1981 and it's been part of my instruction and what makes me who I am as a conservative Christian political activist.
• 3:43
  Joe Wolverton: It's certainly a good resource for anyone and we we try to make those resources available, if not free as as inexpensively.
• 3:52
  Joe Wolverton: That's one of the things they brought me on as the head of publishing as well, and my first job was, you know.
• 3:59
  Joe Wolverton: My argument was uh, weapons don't do any good if they're just sitting around the arsenal collecting dust.
• 4:05
  Joe Wolverton: We've got to get them into the hands of the of the soldiers on the front line.
• 4:08
  Joe Wolverton: And so I went through the, the jbs bookstore, and slashed prices down to the bare bones so that people could afford the, the wonderful resources that we, that we have available instead of, you know, logging on and seeing a book was 30.
• 4:24
  Joe Wolverton: I said, let's said let's make that book $10.
• 4:27
  Joe Wolverton: And so we did that and we've had a lot of good reports back that people are pleased that they're able to afford all of the resources of economics and history and the Constitution that we offer at Shop JBS.
• 4:45
  Joe Wolverton: So I'm happy about that.
• 4:47
  Dr.Robert Jackson: All right, well, look, I invited you to be on today because of an article that you wrote for the New American about President Trump's tariffs, and you know everybody knows about the tariff that they've got their head out of the sand at all.
• 5:01
  Dr.Robert Jackson: They know that President Trump applied tariffs to just about every nation in the world because of the unfair trade arrangement between the United States and just about every nation in the world, declaring that other nations have been taking advantage of the United States for decades and that he wanted to level the playing field economically.
• 5:28
  Dr.Robert Jackson: So he levied various tariffs against both friend and foe across the globe and declared that he was going to bring in revenue to the United States and that he was going to make the trade between the United States and other nations more equitable.
• 5:49
  Dr.Robert Jackson: And if people have been paying attention, it's brought the heads of nations all around the world to the negotiating table and many of them, almost immediately, were willing to make trade deals with President Trump, which he has trumpeted, and it's made him look like the victor.
• 6:12
  Dr.Robert Jackson: And so he has looked like he is coming out on top with a cherry on top because of these tariffs and in fact, it looks like China, who has said they would not negotiate at all their economy.
• 6:30
  Dr.Robert Jackson: You know what little information you can get out of China.
• 6:32
  Dr.Robert Jackson: It sounds like they have factories that are standing still, and there's some word of rioting by workers in China, and some factories have even been burned to the ground.
• 6:44
  Dr.Robert Jackson: So it's an amazing turn of events in China, and even the leader in China has made noise that he's willing to talk to President Trump about some kind of trade deal.
• 6:59
  Dr.Robert Jackson: But here's the thing Is all of this proper?
• 7:05
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Is all of this the thing that should be going on in view of our Constitution?
• 7:10
  Dr.Robert Jackson: And that's what I invited you in, because you're a constitutional expert, and I want to hear from you, and I want my listeners to hear from you, and let us have a dialogue about the constitutionality of tariffs.
• 7:25
  Dr.Robert Jackson: And is this the purview of the president?
• 7:28
  Dr.Robert Jackson: So, joe, I'm going to turn it over to you.
• 7:32
  Joe Wolverton: Thank you, and you know everything you just said is true and good, and you know that's what I want to make clear right from the beginning is this is not anti-Trump or anti-MAGA or pro-democratic or anything like that.
• 7:48
  Joe Wolverton: It's not about party at all.
• 7:49
  Joe Wolverton: It's about principle.
• 7:50
  Joe Wolverton: And the principle here is that the president of the United States does not possess the constitutional authority to impose tariffs.
• 8:01
  Joe Wolverton: That power is granted in the Constitution exclusively to the Congress.
• 8:07
  Joe Wolverton: And that's the first big problem.
• 8:10
  Joe Wolverton: The first big problem is the president is doing this.
• 8:13
  Joe Wolverton: He claims that he has the authority, but he does not have the authority.
• 8:18
  Joe Wolverton: Congress has the authority.
• 8:20
  Joe Wolverton: So the president is perfectly within his purview and within his prerogative to say hey.
• 8:26
  Joe Wolverton: However, when he says that the Constitution anticipates that, those will merely be suggestions and those suggestions will be made to Congress, and then Congress, who are the representatives of the people, is the body that will decide yes or no on imposing these tariffs.
• 9:03
  Joe Wolverton: And the problem is that you know the president.
• 9:07
  Joe Wolverton: In doing this, we put ourselves in a position that you know.
• 9:13
  Joe Wolverton: The power that the president invokes to do this was this International Emergency Economic Powers Act from 1977, international Emergency Economic Powers Act from 1977, which was never intended to become a blank check for the president to use as economic warfare.
• 9:39
  Joe Wolverton: It was designed to give the president narrowly defined authority to respond to specific, very demonstrable, clear and present threats to national security.
• 9:47
  Joe Wolverton: It was not a permission slip for the president to impose tariffs on anything and anyone.
• 9:55
  Joe Wolverton: We cannot, as a country, allow our president no matter how popular, no matter how proper his ideas, no matter how wise his economic ideas we cannot allow him to take those and, by the stroke of a pen, turn that into law.
• 10:16
  Joe Wolverton: That is what we call a king and we do not have a king.
• 10:20
  Joe Wolverton: Constitutionally, the president cannot do this.
• 10:23
  Joe Wolverton: And, doctor, here's where we get into trouble.
• 10:26
  Joe Wolverton: The trouble is many of us and even one of the judges on the court, the US Court of International Trade, that ruled against most of the president's tariff.
• 10:39
  Joe Wolverton: One of the judges says you know, these are actually, as did she say, dandy ideas.
• 10:44
  Joe Wolverton: These are dandy ideas.
• 10:46
  Joe Wolverton: And then she said but it is a dandy plan, but it has to meet the statute.
• 10:51
  Joe Wolverton: And that's where the she's, a Republican nominated by President Reagan, arguing that his tariffs were pro-American or that he's protecting American industry.
• 11:10
  Joe Wolverton: And that very well might be true in sentiment, but we are not a nation of sentiment or intention.
• 11:18
  Joe Wolverton: We are a nation of laws.
• 11:20
  Joe Wolverton: That's the definition of a republic.
• 11:22
  Joe Wolverton: We cannot allow.
• 11:24
  Joe Wolverton: We all know what the road to hell is paved with.
• 11:28
  Joe Wolverton: So good intentions, good ideas, patriotic sentiment, all of that means nothing when it comes to deciding if a person holding an office under the Constitution exercises unconstitutional authority, because we have to.
• 11:48
  Joe Wolverton: Even good and this is the thing that I try to tell people Even good, honest, patriotic intentions must be bound by constitutional constraints, otherwise we might as well not have a constitution at all.
• 12:04
  Joe Wolverton: That's right.
• 12:04
  Joe Wolverton: I agree with that.
• 12:05
  Joe Wolverton: That, and this is what it comes down to.
• 12:06
  Joe Wolverton: The constitution, doctor, is not a buffet.
• 12:09
  Joe Wolverton: You don't get to pick and choose which parts of the constitution you're going to apply and to whom you're going to apply them.
• 12:17
  Joe Wolverton: We must apply them, as the good book says, without being a respecter of persons.
• 12:22
  Joe Wolverton: We must apply those laws equally, equitably and evenly to all people of all parties.
• 12:32
  Joe Wolverton: Yes, because the Constitution is our supreme law.
• 12:37
  Joe Wolverton: It's what represents consent of the governed.
• 12:41
  Joe Wolverton: And if you act outside the boundaries placed by the people on your authority, as expressed in the constitution, then you become, whether we like it or not, you are making yourself into a tyrant.
• 12:56
  Joe Wolverton: That's right, that's right and that's the problem.
• 12:59
  Joe Wolverton: That's where we are.
• 13:00
  Joe Wolverton: He, president trump, and you know this is that President Trump, like many before him, many presidents before him, like, I would argue, almost every president before him, found that the Constitution was too slow, to obstructed, to cumbersome, and so he decided to take this emergency powers act and bypass Congress and then use that end, run around Congress as a pretended authority that the Constitution never granted to the president, and we have a problem.
• 13:35
  Joe Wolverton: The problem we have is number one you have a president who's very popular and so many people are willing to give him a pass when it comes to, you know, making violating the Constitution, particularly when he dresses up that violation, when he wraps it in the flag and when he explains that it's good for the economy, and we're just, you know, we're leveling the playing field and all of that.
• 14:05
  Joe Wolverton: And then the second problem we have is ignorance, on behalf of the people, as to the authority that the president actually has.
• 14:13
  Joe Wolverton: You know, article two of the constitution is a very short article and in that article the president is given very few and well-defined powers, and the reason that it's so short and that is so well defined is because there in philadelphia in 17, those delegates, they themselves had just come through an eight-year war fighting against a king who exceeded his own authority, and they knew that it takes much bloodshed to bring down a king who is exercising tyrannical authority.
• 14:54
  Joe Wolverton: And so, when it came time to create a president, the founding fathers knew we are going to narrowly define the powers of the president so that he essentially, his unilateral actions are almost non-existent.
• 15:10
  Joe Wolverton: For example, he's the commander-in-chief of the military, but only if Congress declares war.
• 15:16
  Joe Wolverton: He can appoint judges and ambassadors, but only if the Senate approves them.
• 15:22
  Joe Wolverton: That sort of thing they did not want to give the president and sort of independent authority like President Trump is using.
• 15:31
  Joe Wolverton: And to make up to take this blank of well, if there's emergencies, we have to do some things differently, which, okay, I don't think that whole law is constitutional to begin with, but it is in effect.
• 15:58
  Joe Wolverton: But it does not grant him the right to create emergencies so that he can use that as a justification for violating the limits of his constitutional authority and, ultimately, doctor.
• 16:14
  Joe Wolverton: What it comes down to beyond all this is that you know some people and most people I know, and I'm sure most people with whom you associate as well.
• 16:24
  Joe Wolverton: They will say well, trump, as I said, trump has our best interest at heart.
• 16:28
  Joe Wolverton: He's trying to restore domestic industry.
• 16:30
  Joe Wolverton: He's trying to level the playing field.
• 16:32
  Joe Wolverton: It's patriotic, it's good.
• 16:35
  Joe Wolverton: We're trying to get back in China, we're trying to restore, make America great again.
• 16:40
  Joe Wolverton: All of this and most people I know they think that's a good thing and that's fine and we're kind of going to just turn a blind eye to it because of the good intentions.
• 16:52
  Joe Wolverton: But here's the problem Donald Trump is not going to be president forever.
• 16:56
  Joe Wolverton: That's right.
• 16:57
  Joe Wolverton: And the problem is, if we allow a president to unilaterally rewrite trade policy, what's to stop the next president from declaring a climate emergency and shutting down all oil and coal production?
• 17:11
  Joe Wolverton: That's right.
• 17:12
  Joe Wolverton: That's right.
• 17:12
  Joe Wolverton: And shutting down all oil and coal production?
• 17:14
  Joe Wolverton: That's right.
• 17:15
  Joe Wolverton: What's to stop the next president from declaring a gun violence emergency and banning the purchase of firearms by civilians?
• 17:20
  Joe Wolverton: Or what's to stop him from declaring a disinformation emergency and shutting down all social media communication that doesn't agree with the regime, media communication that doesn't agree with the regime?
• 17:38
  Joe Wolverton: This is the problem that if President Trump can do it, even for good intentions, someday we're going to have one of these woke presidents who are going to use that power that President Trump used.
• 17:47
  Joe Wolverton: They're going to use that same power to do things with which we will disagree and which will take our liberty, and the only thing, the only thing that's stopping that, is the Constitution.
• 18:00
  Joe Wolverton: But, as James Madison said, the Constitution is simply a piece of parchment that, without the people of the United States honoring it and enforcing it, it is simply a parchment barrier between the people and tyrants.
• 18:16
  Joe Wolverton: So we have to be aware of it and, even though it may hurt a little, you know, to enforce it against presidents that we like and policies that we like, even policies that are ostensibly and arguably good and sound policies.
• 18:33
  Joe Wolverton: We cannot let President Trump exercise that authority because, a it's unconstitutional and, B he's using this Emergency Powers Act to do it for a purpose for which it was not intended.
• 18:45
  Joe Wolverton: And we stand at the precipice of history where we don't know who the next president will be and we know for a fact that we could have someone in the White House declare any sort of emergency, just like President Trump did, and then say under my authority, as exercised by Donald Trump in the last administration, I am hereby halting all sales of firearms and ammunition to all but law enforcement and the military, because we have an epidemic of gun violence and it's an emergency and we need so you can see where I'm going.
• 19:22
  Joe Wolverton: So, yeah, we have to, we have to be, we have to be the people that stand there and we have to know the constitution, honor the and enforce the Constitution.
• 19:35
  Joe Wolverton: Or let's be honest with each other and just do away with it and see where that takes us.
• 19:41
  Dr.Robert Jackson: And you see, the people who value and honor and love Donald Trump so much have to make a decision, and that decision is do we love Donald Trump more than we love our Constitution?
• 19:52
  Joe Wolverton: That's exactly right.
• 19:53
  Joe Wolverton: Do we love his?
• 19:54
  Dr.Robert Jackson: tactics more than we love our Constitution.
• 19:57
  Dr.Robert Jackson: That's exactly right.
• 19:58
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Do we love his?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: tactics more than we love the.
• 19:59
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Constitution.
• 19:59
  Dr.Robert Jackson: And that's when psychology, what we call an approach approach conflict.
• 20:02
  Dr.Robert Jackson: That's a conflict when you have where you have two equally valuable and enjoyable choices and you can't decide between two choices that are equally valuable, equally attractive to you and you know Donald Trump is very attractive to the America.
• 20:20
  Dr.Robert Jackson: First, make America great contingent in our country and the whole notion of loving and valuing the Constitution is also very attractive and valuable to us.
• 20:32
  Dr.Robert Jackson: And people are going to have to make a decision, a hard decision Do we love our Constitution or do we love Donald Trump and his policies more and go?
• 20:42
  Joe Wolverton: ahead.
• 20:43
  Joe Wolverton: I'm sorry, Go ahead.
• 20:44
  Joe Wolverton: I was just going to say that we just can't place faith like again, I sound like a preacher when I come on your show but we cannot place our trust in the arm of flesh, even if that arm of flesh is someone that we look up to and admire and someone with whom we agree with his policy.
• 21:04
  Joe Wolverton: We cannot do that, and we especially cannot allow someone to claim to be making America great again by making the Constitution of America irrelevant.
• 21:18
  Joe Wolverton: That's exactly right.
• 21:19
  Joe Wolverton: We cannot do that.
• 21:21
  Joe Wolverton: We cannot allow ourselves to be put in that position, Even when it hurts.
• 21:26
  Joe Wolverton: We must do the right thing, and the right thing is honoring and enforcing the supreme law of the land as handed down to us by our wise and virtuous ancestors.
• 21:38
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Well, now tell me again, what court was it that declared his tariffs to be unconstitutional?
• 21:45
  Joe Wolverton: It was the US Court of International Trade.
• 21:48
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Well now, how come we haven't heard any noise about that?
• 21:51
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I mean, I read about that in your article, but I haven't really heard anything about it in the media.
• 21:57
  Joe Wolverton: Well, yeah, now a lot of people have asked me that same question and the answer is a little tricky but obvious.
• 22:05
  Joe Wolverton: It's kind of like I tell people it's like those Where's Waldo puzzles.
• 22:09
  Joe Wolverton: You know, you look for hours you can't find Waldo.
• 22:12
  Joe Wolverton: Well, the minute someone points him out to you, you're like, well, how did I miss that?
• 22:19
  Joe Wolverton: And that's what this?
• 22:33
  Joe Wolverton: The US International Trade.
• 22:34
  Joe Wolverton: The reason you've not heard much about this decision is from the liberal media is because liberals are in favor of taxes and tariffs are a form of taxation right, and so if they come out and they praise the US Court of International Trade for slapping down these unlawful, these unconstitutional tariffs, they come out as admitting that taxes damage the economy and they don't want to do that because they are pro-taxation.
• 23:00
  Joe Wolverton: They are the party of big taxes and big government.
• 23:04
  Joe Wolverton: So they're left in this bizarre situation that they don't find themselves in often, but they're in the position of, if they praise someone slapping President Trump on the wrist, they're exposing the weaknesses of their own philosophy about taxation being the answer to every problem, and so they can't do that.
• 23:28
  Joe Wolverton: You can't have MSNBC doing a big if it was some other sort of decision, like every time he was falsely accused of falsifying business records, why you'd have four hours of coverage on every, yeah, constantly, guarantee you haven't heard five minutes about it.
• 23:55
  Joe Wolverton: because the, the gatekeepers of the media, are letting the people know.
• 23:57
  Joe Wolverton: Shut up about this, because if you mention this, it might cause some people to realize that being pro-taxation isn't being anti-economy and anti-American, and we don't want this.
• 24:11
  Joe Wolverton: So, even though it forces them to not, you know, take advantage of a seeming defeat by you know, by President Trump, they have to be quiet about it so as not to reveal the weaknesses of their own philosophy.
• 24:29
  Joe Wolverton: I got you Well now the Congress loves to tax.
• 24:32
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I mean they've taxed us to death?
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Do you think there's?
• 24:34
  Dr.Robert Jackson: any prayer that they would take up his tariffs.
• 24:38
  Dr.Robert Jackson: And they're the ones who, constitutionally, have the right to levy tariffs.
• 24:49
  Joe Wolverton: Put his people to work trying to find some end around.
• 24:54
  Joe Wolverton: Let's find some law that I can use.
• 24:57
  Joe Wolverton: And so they found that Emergency Economic Powers Act from 1977 and pretended that all of that the deficit was a national emergency and a clear and present danger to the safety of the people of the United States.
• 25:16
  Dr.Robert Jackson: It's been wildly popular.
• 25:18
  Dr.Robert Jackson: You'd think Congress would take the hint and they would say let's enact these tariffs.
• 25:23
  Joe Wolverton: Right.
• 25:24
  Joe Wolverton: Well, the problem is Congress, by doing that, would actually be forced to go on record as being for or against something, and they hate that, particularly in the House of Representatives, because every two years, they have to go to the people and justify the votes that they've made.
• 26:00
  Joe Wolverton: Vote for Donald Trump?
• 26:01
  Joe Wolverton: You can imagine that.
• 26:00
  Joe Wolverton: Here's this law before them, raising taxes, and everything within them wants to vote in favor of more taxes, but also everything in them wants them to never, ever, ever agree with Donald Trump.
• 26:05
  Joe Wolverton: So what do they do?
• 26:06
  Joe Wolverton: If they end up voting yes in favor of the tariffs?
• 26:10
  Joe Wolverton: Why then?
• 26:11
  Joe Wolverton: They go home to campaign and their Republican opponents will Look he voted with President Trump or their Democratic primary opponent says my opponent votes with Donald Trump.
• 26:25
  Joe Wolverton: You don't want to send Donald Trump's lackey back to the House.
• 26:28
  Joe Wolverton: We're a Democratic district and we thought we elected a Democrat, but we just elected a.
• 26:36
  Joe Wolverton: Republican in Democratic clothes.
• 26:38
  Joe Wolverton: They need Republican and Democratic clothes, and so they can't afford to be on record in this unique case, because it puts the Democrats in the place they don't want to be.
• 26:51
  Joe Wolverton: It puts Republicans.
• 26:52
  Joe Wolverton: They have to.
• 26:52
  Joe Wolverton: Most of them feel a responsibility to support Trump.
• 26:53
  Joe Wolverton: They also realize the damage economically to Main Street that's done by tariffs, so they don't want to be held accountable for that because of these tariffs, where they would import certain items that they make their stuff in the states, but they import components from other countries, but now these tariffs make it impossible for them to afford it.
• 27:29
  Joe Wolverton: So they go out of business and so their thing is hey, president Trump doesn't even have the authority to do this, so let's challenge that authority in court so that we don't go bankrupt.
• 27:40
  Dr.Robert Jackson: You know, trying to to somehow survive the economic impact of these tariffs but the tariffs are going to continue because nobody's going to raise a stink about it.
• 27:50
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Even though the court says it's unconstitutional, he's going to continue on without any.
• 27:55
  Dr.Robert Jackson: It is anybody saying a word?
• 27:58
  Joe Wolverton: it's the pro, it's the prototypical catch-22.
• 28:01
  Joe Wolverton: It's literally just like that.
• 28:03
  Joe Wolverton: But at the end of the day, the real emergency isn't the trade deficit, it's the deficit of constitutional understanding in our people and in our political representatives.
• 28:18
  Joe Wolverton: You're right, you understand.
• 28:20
  Joe Wolverton: You know, something that I tell people.
• 28:21
  Joe Wolverton: I, you know, give these presentations at churches a lot and I say look, I hold the Constitution as a sacred document.
• 28:29
  Joe Wolverton: I think that it is the supreme law.
• 28:31
  Joe Wolverton: I think our Heavenly Father inspired it.
• 28:34
  Joe Wolverton: I think the men who drafted it were inspired by him.
• 28:37
  Joe Wolverton: I think they all, to a man, recognized the hand of providence in putting this together.
• 28:44
  Joe Wolverton: I said, but there's something even beyond that.
• 28:47
  Joe Wolverton: So when a president or a court or a congress acts outside their constitutional authority, that bothers me and that than tyrannical and that's being a blasphemer to me as a Christian.
• 29:05
  Joe Wolverton: Because every one of these men, all 535 members of Congress, all nine Supreme Court justices and the president of the United States, place their hand on a Bible and swear to God to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.
• 29:22
  Joe Wolverton: Well, if you're reading the Bible, swear not, it says right by heaven, for it is God's home, nor by earth, for it is His footstool.
• 29:31
  Joe Wolverton: And here you've got all these political representatives, in my opinion, mocking God by putting their hand on the Bible and swearing to be faithful to a document, and then, as soon as they raise their hand off that Bible and swearing to be faithful to a document, and then, as soon as they raise their hand off that Bible, they go and cast a vote contrary to the Constitution, thus making themselves not only tyrants but blasphemers as well.
• 29:52
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I understand that, but then the rest of us in this country are ignorant of the Constitution and you know, the Bible tells us that the people perish because of a lack of knowledge and when the wicked rule I mean when the wicked rule the people shall mourn.
• 30:09
  Joe Wolverton: Yes, and we were living in those days, unfortunately.
• 30:13
  Joe Wolverton: However, we always have that opportunity to you know, study the Constitution, to really make a concerted effort if we're claiming to revere a document, to honor a document, to consider a document inspired, to really say it's a small document, it's really not that large To study it and then to hold our political representatives, our political servants hold them accountable to that oath that they swear to God, hold them accountable to it and that's our job, because if we don't do it, we know they're not going to do it themselves.
• 30:48
  Joe Wolverton: Oh no, they won't.
• 30:50
  Dr.Robert Jackson: All right.
• 30:50
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Well, joe, our time is out.
• 30:51
  Dr.Robert Jackson: We've got to go.
• 30:52
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I appreciate your willingness to be on More Than Medicine with me.
• 30:57
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I appreciate your expertise and I'm just honored to have you as my guest.
• 31:02
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I hope you'll come back and be on More Than Medicine again another time.
• 31:07
  Joe Wolverton: All you need to do is ask doctor, and I will be there.
• 31:09
  Joe Wolverton: I appreciate you so much.
• 31:11
  Joe Wolverton: I appreciate your faith, I appreciate your efforts on behalf of patriotism and on behalf of spreading the kingdom of God, and I appreciate all you do Well.
• 31:19
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Thank you kindly, and the Lord bless you and your family.
• 31:21
  Dr.Robert Jackson: You're listening to More Than Medicine.
• 31:23
  Dr.Robert Jackson: I'm your host, dr Robert Jackson.
• 31:25
  Dr.Robert Jackson: My guest today is Joe Wolverton, constitutional lawyer.
• 31:29
  Dr.Robert Jackson: We'll be back again next week.
• 31:31
  Dr.Robert Jackson: Until then, may the Lord bless you real good.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to this edition of More Than Medicine.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: For more information about the Jackson Family Ministry, dr Jackson's books, or to schedule a speaking engagement, go to their Facebook page, instagram or their webpage at jacksonfamilyministrycom.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: This podcast is produced by Bob Slone Audio Production at bobslone.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: com.