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Rugby Direct - Episode 188 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from Newstalks EDB. Follow this
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  Speaker 1: and our wide range of podcast now on iHeartRadio, Straight
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: down the Middle, try get inside the game from every angle.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: by News Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, power by Folklib Solutions, lifting you
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Alligance Smith with me,
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Liam Napier and Rugby Direct ticks Off and other continents
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: we take North America. Coming to you from the Windy City, Chicago,
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Liam it it's great to see you in great heavy
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Becker after a week away from the podcast, and great
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: to be in Chicago, counting down to this Test match
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: this week in All Blacks and Ireland the rematch very much,
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: looking forward to it. Welcome.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, great to be, isn't it in the US of A.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: We got to an NBA game last night, our Chicago
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Bulls four and oh that was a great experience. And
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: then on to Soldier Field this weekend. So yeah, let
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: the tour begin.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just give the balls the championship now, I reckon
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: the way they're playing. Look at let's perhaps just dick
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: into the side's first and foremost that we've got for
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: this weekend and for the All Blacks, not too many surprises.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: The three injured players that set out in Perth are
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: back in the mix this week, probably not a lot
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: of surprise that they would come back in and what
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: we probably termed surprise selections in Perth. Peter Lukeye at
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: number eight Quinta Pirate thirteen both retain their juicy. So
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: what have you made of Scott Robinson's twenty three for Sunday?
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I think Boden Barrett's Ethan the Groots
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: and the other captain Clark Cadob Clark were always going
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: to come back. Of those three, I think Caleb Clark
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: could be the most influential because I expect Island to
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: kick a lot and he's the All Black's best aerial asset.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: He talked today about his stint at the Rabbit O's
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: and what he'd learned from them in terms of his
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: high ball and saying that you know, he welcomes that challenge.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: He wants them to kick to him. So I think
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: he's a really big in in the context of that,
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: and I think I don't think you could have dropped
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Quinti Pie on the basis of how he played, not
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: just with his two tries, his direct carrying, he was
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: good defensively against the Wallabies. I expect him to be
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: tested a lot more there he's only had that one
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Test start at center, but also just the way he
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: freed up Jordi Barrett, I think to play a more
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: natural second five role. That was quite telling and I
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: think number eight is probably the most contestable selection. Peter Lucky.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: That was his first Test start at number eight Wallace.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: He hasn't had the heights of last year and I
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: think there's probably a consideration and there around at the
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: bench as well, wanting to get a bit pats there.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: It is interesting, though, isn't it up what the TC
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: will break through player of the year last year All
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Blacks Player of the Year. Now he's on the bench.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I think Lakeye and c Tt twenty two and twenty
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: three years old, respectively, of the long term future of
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: the loose forwards, but they're currently contesting the same role.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the out look. I think so Tt, as you
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: touched on, has struggled to hit those heights of last year.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Those were massive heights that he did hit and he's
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: been injured twice this year, significantly miss most of Super Rugby,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: came back, played right through to the final, then did
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: his ankle, missed the French series, came back in in Argentina.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: So he really hasn't played a lot of rugby this
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: year and it kind of feels like, look, he's still
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: got time to make an impact on this tour and
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: he will no doubt start one of the remaining three matches,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: but it almost feels like not necessarily a right off
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five for him, but just it's not going
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: to hit the heights of last year. And perhaps with
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: a preseason and with with the Chiefs and which would
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: be essentially his first full Chief Super Rogie preseason because
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: he wasn't a contracted player last year, then he can
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: have the opportunity to just build back in and perhaps
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: have a full year of rugby. I do think that
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: those injuries have taken the toll on him and perhaps
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: getting twenty to thirty minutes of him in a match
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: is perhaps the best of your Blacks canas for at
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the moment.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you and I have discussed this that I
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: think we will It'll be results dependent, but we will
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: see a bit of rotation on this tour, tactical rotation,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: and there's probably not a lot between Satiti and Luckeye
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: and even a leicesterifying and Nuku in a quinta pious,
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: so he could easily interchange those sort of guys and
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: I think we will see that as you look to
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: retain a bit of freshness among the squads. So look
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: on the whole, it was your Blacks team that probably
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: most people would have picked. But Islands have sprung a
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: few surprises. I've got injuries. No Matt Hanson or Hugo
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Keenan in the back three, No Robbie Henshaw. They've bought
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: Kaylyn Doris, their world class captain back. I don't think
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: he's played since May mister Brish and Irish Lions tour,
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: so he's coming back off the bench. But yeah, they've
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: sprung a couple of surprises.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: But have here still McCloskey starting at second five, which
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: is a bit of a surprise because as you mentioned,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: they've got a couple of injuries there, but you would
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: have thought maybe Aki and Ringrose would be the starting midfield.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Ring Row starts at thirteen as it is, but mcloskey's
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: kind of a almost a what if player that he's
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: been around for a number of years now. He's a
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: big body, so he's going to come up against that
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: All Blacks midfield, but perhaps has been underutilized just for
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: the fact that they have had Henshaw, Ring Rows and
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: r QI for a number of years now that he
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: hasn't had too many cracks where he gets a big
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: opportunity this weekend against the All Blacks and running into
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: that All Blacks midfield of Jordi Barrett and Quinte Pye,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: chance for him to really state his case. He's on
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: the other side of thirty now and probably him you know,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: a performance that are we wanted to put in and
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: could put him in the stead a number two years
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: away from World Cup, but you know, kind of a
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: make or break performance. So it's a really interesting selection
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: there from Andy Farrell. He has also gone on the wings,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: predictably James Low and then Tommy O'Brien, who we don't
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: know a lot about, debut during the summer series that
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Ireland played but not a familiar name to certainly New Zealanders,
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: so we'll see how he goes on the right wing.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: But equally probably Leroy Card is a bit of an
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: unknown quantity to this Irish side. What do you expect
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: from the Irish side? For me, you know, it's been
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: a year since I've actually had you know, personnel in
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: all the places that they want them to be, with
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Andy Farrell standing down for the Six Nations, for the Lions,
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: and you know, a couple of injuries and everything like that.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: So they're coming in cold, I think to this series,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: and they've got a big program coming up over the
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: next few weeks. So what do we expect from Ireland?
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Do we expect the same team that has held the
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: All Blacks to a five and five record over the
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: last ten matches.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: I think there's big question marks over both teams. If
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: we start with the Elans. Look, they were the best
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: team in the world for probably two years leading into
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: the twenty twenty three World Cup and then didn't take
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: that chance the All Blacks winning that quarterfinal and consigning
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: Ireland to more heartbreak there. And I think since they've
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: had some retirements and I think we've seen them wayanne
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: and there are question marks over the age profile of
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: this team. A lot of those players have been around
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: a long time, particularly when you cast ahead to the
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: next World Cup, and yeah, they've had some disruption with
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: Andy Farrell not being there. They haven't played together since March,
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: and there's six nations. They slumped from first to third,
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: so that's probably a reflection of where they're at. I
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: think you could say they're not the team they were.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: That's not to say they can't turn up this weekend
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: and knock over the All Blacks, because the All Blacks
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: have been inherently inconsistent and unconvincing. I only put it
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: together against the Wallabies. But it's a big task, isn't it,
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: coming out in and playing your first test as a
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: team since March. Look that they have had players play.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: They had fifteen sixteen on the Lions tour. Andy Farrell
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Knowso's players well and they have looked to counter that
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: by coming out to Chicago last Tuesday, so they would
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: have been here by the time they played the match
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: almost two weeks. They had an internal hitouts, so they're
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: not coming in completely cold. But you can't really replicate
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: a test match. So I think we saw last November
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: a refection of what can happen when you come in
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: Cold Island were poor, not only as a team but
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: Jack Crowley had a poor match and some of the
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: individual skills went up to scratch and that's probably because
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: they were rusty. So they all blacks are nine tests
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: into the year. I think that is a significant advantage.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well you've mentioned the internal hitout. They're also largely
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: played each other lens to the months to two or
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: three weeks back in the UC and months sitting Lenster
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: coach now by Clayton Millan, of course, and so they've
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: had games against each other. But in terms of that cohesiveness,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: and you know a lot of players in this team,
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: largely from Lenster. I think six out of the sorry
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: seven out of the eight starting pack are So there's
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: a consistency there in Nate because they just play for
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: the one club. So it's mentioning to see how they
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: quickly they can pack up and whether they can hit
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: those heights again. Of you know the couple of years
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: before the World Cup twenty twenty two to twenty three
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: when they were, as you said, the best team in
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: the world. You look at that team though, with Kaylin
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Dollars coming off the bench, you know, a loose ward
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: treo that has Conan and Vonderfleer and Ryan Beard very
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: very good makeup beer Funderfleer I think underplayed on the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: lines too massively this year. So you know they are
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: a team. And then the question marker probably have is
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: at ten around Jack Crowley who obviously you know they
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: head Johnny Sixton, who was a generational player for them.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: And this happens when you have a playler that retire,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: you struggle to land on the right player to replace
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: some Prendigas's haw to crack. Crowley's had to crack as well.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: But you know, he gets an opportunity this week to
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: similar to McCloskey, you know, steak his clase for why
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: he should be part of this Irish team moving forward.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: So from that perspective, it's really fascinating to say where
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: they go to not only this weekend, but over the
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: next few weeks.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and he Crowley wins that race with
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Priente Gas on the basis of that. Well, not solely,
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: but certainly a big stake in the ground for him
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: was Monster's form and his performance in that match, Monster
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: dominating Leinster. So if you go back to last November,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: the performance against the All Blacks, Costumer's position, he was
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: meant to be the heir apparents and didn't take his chance.
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: So this is a big stage for him. Andy Farrell's
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: given him the nods and he needs to take it.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Just just on the flip side with the All Blacks.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: Want your assessment here Razor today we heard from him
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: and for me, he was decidedly nervous. He almost to
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: the point looks a bit rattled. I think he's starting
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: to feel the pressure and perhaps that's the reflection of
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: what's happened behind closed doors with the Jason Holland situation.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: But clearly this is a big tour for the All Blacks,
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: you know, the Grand Slam significance of its chasing it
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: for the first time in fifteen years. But there's a
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: lot at stake here for the All Blacks, and outwardly
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Razor didn't look comfortable to me. How important set the
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: scene here? How important is this tour for Razer's tenure.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's very important to set things up for
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: the summer, for the narrative that the All Blacks go
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: into twenty twenty six with the greatest rivalry tour, with
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: the World Cup two years on the horizon. I think
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: it is vitally important. Now, even if they don't win
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: the Grand Slam, they can still come out of this
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: tour with the respectable you know, if they win three
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: lose one, say they lose to England or Ireland, then
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: you know that's the respectableness to it, depending on the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: nature of the losses. But if they lose at the
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: first hurdle and the Grand slams gone, that is a
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: storyline in itself. And yeah, it's one thing not to
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: get the Grand Slam at all, but it's another to
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: you know, lose at the first turtle, which could very
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: well happen on Sunday morning, New Zealand time. So I
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: think there's an edge to it. And I think also
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: there's a bit of you know, probably residue from the
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: twenty sixteen match here. And while not a lot of
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: players were there on that occasion that are currently in
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: the all black setup, Scott Barrett day Boo that afternoon,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Ardisa the year was there, but Barrett was around. I
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: think it might have been one other potentially as well.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Management wise, a lot of it's changed, but that you know,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: it's a loss, they get reminded about a lot because
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: it changed the tide of the rivalry. It was Ireland's
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: first when obviously, so I think there's an under standable
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: nervousness to Scott Robinson, but also the players and stuff
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: is that they you know that they want desperately to
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: win the Grand Slam, but also don't want it to
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: evaporate at the first hurdle because then they have to
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: trudge off to the UK playing a very good Scottish
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: team and it could unravel pretty quickly. So I think
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: there's a tenseness and nervousness in camp. That was my
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: first opportunity to be around them today. Whether that can
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: translate sometimes nervousness can you translate into a result. But
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I agree that there's a sense there that you know
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: that not necessarily under siege the All Blacks, but they
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: do need to deliver and and haven't been able to
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: do that to this point. And Islands had the better
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: of them, even though it's a five to five record,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: and even though the All Blacks had won those big
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: matches over that ten year as her ten game thing,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: it feels like because Islands come from nowhere in this rivalry,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: with all due respect to now winning five and five,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: they've got the upper hand even though it's a fairly
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: even rivalry if you follow them adrift.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that the precious queely on the All
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: Blacks this week. That's the way it feels. Maybe that's
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: just a lens with which we've looked view it through.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: I think you can make it case the All Blacks
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: have the upper hands that maybe they've figured Island Alowe
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: bit in their structures because they've won the last two.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: That can easily change. But the context also you mentioned
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: there about twenty sixteen. It's nine years. It's a lifetime.
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: But lessons have been learned, I think, and this week
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: there's been a few examples. So one of the big
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: lessons from that time was Bill Black's doing too much
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: outside of the rugby sphere. They got swept up in
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: the Cubs winning their breaking their one hundred and eight
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: year baseball droughts. They did a lot commercially, and while
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: that has still happened this week, one example was zill
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Blacks went to a Chicago Bulls match while they arrived
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: first and foremost last Friday, and so they've front loaded
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: been able to do those sort of things before dialing
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: in on the rugby. But they went to a Chicago
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Bulls match and they had to actually leave before the finish.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: So they're at the game, they're watching it and it's
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: just starting to get interesting. They had to leave because
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: they were worried about traffic and they had a curfew.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: So I'd never do that to my balls.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: So there's one example though of I guess the tension
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: around to a degree, but also the lessons learned from
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: twenty sixteen and that the focus on rugby. You know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: it's easy to get swept up in a big city,
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: being in the States, there's a lot to do, a
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: lot to see potentially, but the All Blacks are very
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: focused on Ireland, are very focused on this Grand Slam.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: And you're right, tension and pressure and nervous energy can
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: results can bubble away into a good performance. But in
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: the context of Scott Robertson's tenure, in the context of
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: you know, another All Blacks assistant coach walking away at
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: the end of the year, it's very important to grab
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: hold of that narrative and to put some positive results
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: for to control that.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: What do you expect Do you expect Bill Boks to win?
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: On Sunday morning, New zeal.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: On Time, I do, yes, and look, that's in large
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: parts because of what we talked about with the contrasting
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: preparations all next nine tests into the year. They should
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: have a bit of rhythm, a bit of flow. They
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: should be on the same page strategically. They have a
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: settled team, you know. Yes, they must seem to provide
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: and Patrick two pilot and tyre O Lomax, but everyone
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: could have predicted this team, so are very clear about
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: what they want to do about their personnel. And yeah,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I think they should be in some form. They've just
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: the Wallabies aren'ts the top of the tree of world rugby,
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: but they've strung back to back to performances together. There
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: should be a bit of confidence there where Islands I
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: think have more hurdles to overcome. So look, I expect
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: it to be tight, tense, but I do expect the
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: All Blacks toin.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they will as well. But I expect
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: a one score sort of school line. And that's probably
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: reflective of most of the games between these two sides
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: over the last ten games. Give or take a couple
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: of blowouts on either side, but by and large this
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: has been a really close rivalry. It's interesting as well
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: been doing a couple of crosses back home, we talk
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: about that that fact are being swept up in Chicago.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: You don't sell out sixty thousand seats by accident, and
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: there are some advertising hoardings of the game. The lamp
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: post flags along one of the couple of big avenues
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: here in Chicago. But getting cut through is interesting as well.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: We're at the media conference today. I think who won
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: an American accent there. I'm not sure where that reporter was from,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: but it was very much New Zealand journalists and the
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Irish journalists there covering get as we would if the
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: game was an Auckland or whether it was in Dublin.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's hard to knock off the local sports
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: off the front page. But you know, they're doing their
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: best to try and get that commercial side of things in.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I know they've been doing few local TV appearances and
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: that sort of thing and pressing the flesh that way.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: But in a big city like Chicago, it's sort of
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: hard to get that everyone's talking factor around the city.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's true of Tokyo or London, even
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: any big city. There's so much more happening in the world,
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: but even just down the street here the Hilton Hotel.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Outside they've got the American, the Irish and the New
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Zealand flags flying. And yeah, I was even surprised, to
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: be honest, to see a few posters on South Michigan
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Avenue where we're staying. But yeah, even little things like
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: the Alblecks. Chrainer went out on Tuesday to the University
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: of Illinois and the pitch the All Blacks training on
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: was pretty pretty ropey. It was sloping and the posts
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: looked like something out of Under seven's rugby. They were tiny,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: So yeah, just the I guess the facilities and these
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: sorts of things that they used to probably down the
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: pecking order, but look they did get cut through. They
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: went to the Chicago Bulls. They had a bit of
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: an interchange with Josh Gillies, the Australian. Pretty interesting making
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: the Australian hold the All Blacks jersey. But yeah, there
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: was a bit of publicity there. The Irish team were
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: there last night. When we were there. I think the
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: All Blacks went along on the day off. Some of
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: them had a shoot around it. What's it called United Center,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: So yeah, a bit of to and fro in terms
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: of some cut through. In terms of the makeup of
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: the crowd this weekend, we expected to be very pro
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: Irish sough, don't we. I think there's quite a big
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: Irish population here potentially, and from talking to the Irish
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: journos a number of their traveling fans coming out, so
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I think there'd be plenty of Green amongst six sixty
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: three thousand at Soldier Field.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Which Icigo River has been died green. I think most
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: of Patrick's days for last week, I think, yeah, just
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: a whole bunch of die gets thrown into that river.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: So it's got Irish roots the city, and no doubt
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: they'll be out numbering the All Blacks. But I had
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: a couple of New Zealanders on the plane coming over,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: and so there'll be a few k since in the crowd.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Every try try ten sixty sec, every tackle, tackles, get
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: up again, well take him before.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: After times Rugby Direct.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Changed text slightly. We didn't react to this last week.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: It was after a recorder, but Jason Holland and we
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: alluded to earlier in the podcast leaving his post at
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: the end of this tour it's been out for obviously
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: a week now, but what do you make of that
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: news and where did the all bles go to from
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: here once they get into off season mode?
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a bad reflection as a second
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: assistant coach, the second original member of Scott Robinson's coaching
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: team to leave walk away, and he had a long
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: time to prepare and those were always going to be
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: as men He's worked for them previously as a long
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: standing relationship with Jason Hollands. I don't know definitively, but
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I've heard a lot about they've been a very close
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: shop between Jason Ryan, Scott Robinson, and Scott Hansen, to
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: the point that some selections haven't even been conveyed beyond
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: that tight circle. And now last year it was the
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: whole group selecting the team, wasn't it, And that's been
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: refined this year to those three guys. I think Jason
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Holland's titles as strike coach is a bit limiting as well.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: You know how much cut through is he actually getting
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: in terms of the attack attack portfolio? Does he just
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: get a bit of Sayer off the scrumb and line out?
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: Is that really utilizing his talent? Is it enough to
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: keep him satisfied? Maybe he's there's a bit of frustrations there,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: So I think he's probably been shut out of the
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: main decision making. But I think they will have to
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: have to replace him, you know.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: What, say you, I think it could well be time
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: for a little bit of a restructure. And obviously we
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: don't know internally how this plays out, but from the
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: external side of things, the structure that they're running is confusing,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: and who looks after what has been confusing and time.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, we know that Jason Ryan looks after the forwards,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: that Timo d Ellison's responsible to the defense, but how
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: the delineation of Scott Hanson's role works for essentially, how
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Jason Holland's role has worked and what exactly, as you
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: said before, his say works has been unclear. You know,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Scott Robinson's the overarching coach, but what does he delegate
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: down to Hanson and co So this may be and
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: maybe you know, this may be an opportunity to restructure
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: the coaching team and the roles and the division of
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: labor between some of these Play Pooh people, and then
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: that may burn up an opportunity to go external and
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: figure out how you replace Jason Holland. If you replace
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Jason Holland, I'm not sure if it's too many cooks
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: in the kitchen with the number of coaches that they've got,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: or whether it's too many cooks not having enough to
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: do in the kitchen and couple having too much to do.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, we've also spoken at least a month ago,
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: I think, during the Rugby Championship about the lack of
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: test experience and also the lack I think of discerning
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: challenging voices. So those three core coaches have worked together
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: a lot at the Crusaders. How much how many competing
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: ideas you know, if you think about previous all black
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: coaching teams. I saw Mike cron talking about this this week.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: There was a lot of disagree and commit so a
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: lot of heads bucking essentially, But that's very healthy, I think,
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: to have debates. How much of that is happening when
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: you've worked together for such a long time, when you
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: know each other well, when you're probably on the same
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: page from from a you know, a former Crusaders point
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: of view. So if there is a change, I would
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: like to see it be an established figure, someone from
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: from outside the Crusaders, because when you're looking at a
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Tommody Ellison as well, there's probably a lot of like
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: for like in that in that coaching group.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: There is I would actually like to go international. I
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: think that could be really valuable for the All Blacks,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: just to do what you say as well, that that pushback,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: that that different voice, that different ide is that maybe
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: not all of them work, but they at least they're
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: at the table, they're thrown up and they're considered by
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: the coaching staff, and I think that would be really valuable.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: I don't have an answer as to who. I don't
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: have a name, but I think you look at the
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: spring box and what Russia Rasmus has been able to do.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: It's almost the United Nations of coaching. He's got so
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: many boxes. I use this and the nicest possible way,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: but box has ticked off. He's got a New Zealand perspective,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: he's got an Irish perspective. He's got one daily stick
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: who offers the perspective of his players. And you know,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Russia Rasmus oversees the operation. They've got another you know referee,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: we're referee Dwayne Vermullin and and then you know he's
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: just come out of you know, basically retired what just
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: over a year ago. So and that all works together.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, there's too many shifts in the
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: kitchen for the All Blacks, but it's the right shifts
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: in the right places and coming together to create the dish.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: To keep using that analogy. So I don't know who's
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: out there. You know, Ron Reguara has worked with Scott
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Robertson before. He's a very lust job at Lar Rochelle.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Maybe he's an option. You just don't know what exit
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: clauses people have in contracts at what interests them, whether
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: they're able to break their contract for an international gig,
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: whatever it might be. But I think this is the
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: time to think big and look at the you know,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: the wider All Blacks operation.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very common amongst world coaching teams. Andrew Goodman's
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: with Ireland. I think Andrew Strawbridge, New Zealander again is
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: with England. You mentioned Tony Brown there, so you know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: it's a bit like you say, United Nations like, so, yeah,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: maybe we shouldn't be so roast into glasses and look
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: outside the square a little bit. The only other point
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: I would make on this is it was concerning, maybe
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: telling to see guys like Cody Taylor come out and say, yeah,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: I was a bit blindsided by the news. So that
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: to me suggests that something has happened in recent times
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: to bring this to a head. I know Jason Rahme
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: was only contract to the to the end of this year,
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: and maybe the fact that he's staying on suggests that
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: it wasn't a huge issue. But my read on it
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: is that he's just been frozen out. He's a bit frustrated.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I think it's unfortunate. I think it's a
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: bad look for Raser given how long he had to plan,
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: and it's also probably a reflection of the pressure of
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: their realities. He wanted this gig for such a long time,
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: but it is a lot different when you're walking through
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: that fire and in the hot seat. It's a very
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: different world. So it's probably a reflection of all that
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: melting pot.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: It certainly is all right, Well that about do us
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: for Rugby Directs in Chicago. Twenty seven minutes into the podcast,
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: in time to mention that Canterbury won the NPC.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: He almost got there.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: The mascot race tough for my otarger your otarga.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah right.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: It was a great final, great occasion, eighteen thousand fans
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: packed in at Polo Project Stadium in christ Church, great
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: afternoon for footy and a great result. So everyone leaves happy,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: perhaps apart from the OTAGA fans, but what look, it
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: has been a great NPC. My understanding is that the
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: final was, you know, a blockbuster for Sky. Don't have
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: any specifics on that. That's for them to release, but
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I understand it worked very, very well. So it's been
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: a bit of a renaissance for the NPC this season
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: and long matt continue.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and hopefully that means more afternoon footy as well,
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: because if it's a great ratings on television, it's certainly
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: prime time to get fans through the stadium. Just one
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: final point where we're on crush Chitch. I saw some
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: had a mate who went through the new stadium and
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: it looks magnificent. I think it's gonna be a benchmark
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: for New Zealands. Apparently the concourse, you can still see
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: the grounds, Apparently it's got like restaurants in there, obviously
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: got the roof. It's gonna be an amazing venue. So
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: look forward to your host to me there one day.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah well yeah, the new National Stadium. Many are calling
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: it the National Stadium.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: The highlight of Rush.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: We might have to get Rugby Direct down there for
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Super around next year. I think we might have to
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: make that happen. But that has been us for in Chicago.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: As we count down to the Manchiing throw all the
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: coverage on Enzi, Herald of Haus and live commentary Sunday morning,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: across News Talks, You Be Gold Sport and iHeartRadio and
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: we will be back in your feed. Catch up with
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: you early next week on Rugby Direct now by Folkliff Solutions,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: lifting you and your business to a higher level thanks
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: to Currie Shaw producing Colle You Next time.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: For more from News Talks at b listen live on
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
• 29:57
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