Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / Opposition Leader Lia Finocchiaro says it’s extraordinary the NT Government thinks it can bury its head in the sand and not address rumours the Police Commissioner has been asked to resign

Transcript

Opposition Leader Lia Finocchiaro says it’s extraordinary the NT Government thinks it can bury its head in the sand and not address rumours the Police Commissioner has been asked to resign · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Well, pressure is mounting on the Chief Minister at Tasha
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Files to reveal the future of the Northern Territory Police
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Commissioner Jamie Chalker, after she yesterday refused to say if
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: she has confidence in the commissioner. On the weekend, Sky
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: News revealed the government had asked mister Chalker to resign,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: losing confidence in his ability to continue in the role. Now,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: mister Chalker has taken indefinite leave. And as I mentioned
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: a moment ago, the Chief Minister yesterday addressing the media
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and also again this morning in a local radio interview,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: and Will has not confirmed or she has confirmed that
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: he's on leave, but refused to say if she'd asked
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: him to resign or if she still has confidence in
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: the police commissioner. Now she said, I've indicated to you
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: that mister Chalker is on leave.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: That's all I'll be saying now.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: She was asked numerous times if she had confidence in
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the police commissioner and did not answer the question, which
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: really speaks volume. If she did, she would have said
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: she had confidence in him. Now joining me on the
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: show is the Opposition leader Leafanoki are, Oh, good morning
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: Leaving Katie and to your listeners.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Now the Chief Minister is refusing to say if she
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: does have confidence in the Northern Territory Police Commissioner. It's
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: understood that a cabinet meeting took place on Friday the
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Police Commissioner was told that the government's lost confidence in him.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: He's now on leave and no one is prepared to
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: say anything. What do you make of this situation.
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: It's really quite extraordinary, Katie, and I think it's a
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: new loaf Natasha Files and her government. Ultimately, our police
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: are the backbone of our society. A strong police force
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: means a strong community, and it means we have law
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: and ornor and people can go and live their lives
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: in freedom.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: Our police force, make no mistake, has been in crisis
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: for a very long time. But ultimately for the Chief
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: Minister and the Police Minister to be burying their heads
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: in the sand and providing such high levels of uncertainty
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: and mischief essentially around the top police officer in the
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: Northern Territory is unfathomable. This is not a tenable position
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: for either of them. Our police need to know what
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: is going on at the top, and so do our community.
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: And it's really extraordinary that Natasha Files thinks again she
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: can deal with this and put politics above people and
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: deal with this in a way that she feels like
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: she's managing the media rather than managing at the government.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Well, look, that's the part that I'm sort of struggling
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: to get my head around at this point is on
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the weekend we had extreme crime. You know, we had
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: a situation in Allie Springs where there was five cars,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: more than five cars stolen on Friday night. On Sunday night,
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: there was further cars stolen here in Darwin on Sunday morning,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: and also late in the hours of Saturday night there
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: was a car stolen from a family that was carjacked.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: We also saw the vision out of moyl a mum
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: who who's filmed that vision from her balcony in moil
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: of people in the street with axes attacking each other.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: It's woeful what's going on right now.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: What we actually need is some really clear leadership. We
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: need to know who is running the show within the
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Force and whether the Chief Minister has
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: confidence in the Police Commissioner or not. The fact that
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: she's not even able to answer that question to me
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: speaks volumes.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: Well, that's exactly right, and the Chief Minister is responsible
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: for hiring and firing of CEOs. That's how government works.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: And ultimately, if Natasha Fars doesn't have confidence in the
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: police commissioner, she's got to come out and say that
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: and deal with that issue head on, because you cannot
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: have a situation where the police force is essentially being
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: undermined by the government, where you have a commissioner who
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: is holding a position who may or may not have
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: the confidence of rank and file and the cabinet.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is just an.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: Extraordinary, possible, unprecedented situation, Katie, and it can't be left
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: to go on. We know that we have an eleven
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: percent attrition rate in our police force, we know that
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: morale is very low, we know that health and well
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: being is a serious issue, and yet the government are
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: pretending like nothing is going on here and that this
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: is just going to blow over.
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  Speaker 3: Well it won't.
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  Speaker 4: We have a police commissioner with a job to do
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  Speaker 4: and now we have a situation where he may not
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: enjoy the confidence of the Chief Minister any longer.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: She's got to come up and, you know, tackle this
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: issue head on.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: She's got to say what is going on because this
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: is not sustainable.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Lea, as the Opposition leader of the Northern Territory, do
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: you have confidence in the police Commissioner.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: So we've been really clear about our position on the
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: Police Commissioner for a long time. A couple of years now, Katie,
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: we've tried six times in Parliament to have an urgent
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: inquiry into the police crisis. We believe that's the best
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: way to deal with these issues. And the first thing
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: we would have done is call forward the Police Commissioner
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: to explain why he should keep his job. Now that's
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: a process I would undertake if I was the Chief Minister.
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: I'm clearly I'm you opposition leader and the government do
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: not want to have a police inquiry to trust.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: That point though, now right like, we're past the point
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: of sort of saying all right, you know, should this
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: person keep their job or not, because by the sounds
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: of things, the government's actually said that they don't have
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: confidence in him. So what do you think needs to
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: happen here?
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: Well, the Chief Minister and Natasha Files and the Police
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: Minister need to front Territorians and explain what's going on
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: our police in our community. Deserve that certainty. You can't
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: have a police commissioner on indefinite leave. You can't have
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: an acting police commissioner for an indefinite period of time.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: This needs to be dealt with immediately and decisively. And
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  Speaker 4: instead what we have is Natasha Files trying to play
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: politics with this issue and hope that if she buries
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: her head in the sand long enough, it will go away.
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: But it won't. This is a crisis point of an
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: entirely new level. Katie, do you.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Think that commissioner can stay in the role.
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: I think past this point it seems impossible for the
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: government to be able to maintain this. I mean, there's
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: clearly an unsustainable position at both levels. You've got a
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: Police Minister who's saying nothing. You have a Chief Minister
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: who is saying nothing. You have a Police commissioner who
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: is saying nothing. I mean, who is running the Northern territory.
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: We have a crime crisis of proportions we've never seen before.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: We literally have carnage and destruction on our streets every
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: single day, and now at the very highest levels of
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: our government we have everyone missing an action.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So who do you think is to blame for that?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: For the crime levels that we are seeing across the
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Northern Territory. Do you think that that is the government's
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: policy settings. Do you think that it's an issue of
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: there being such low morale within the Northern Territory police force.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: What do you think is happening here and how do
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: you think that the removal of the Police commissioner could
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: make a difference in that space.
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: Well, ultimately, Natasha Philes and her government are responsible for
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: the laws.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Our police are there to uphold the lord.
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  Speaker 4: That's what they go out and do every single day
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: to keep us safe. Now Territorians know that the laws
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: are not adequate. They are not protecting people to keep
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: them safe, they're in fact protecting the criminals and the offenders.
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: So changing out a police commissioner, if that's what ends
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: up happening, is not going to solve our crime crisis,
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  Speaker 4: because ultimately Natasha Files and Kate Warden still sit in
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: those top jobs. They still have shown through their actions
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: that they are not willing to tackle this issue of
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: law and order. They're not willing to support our police
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  Speaker 4: and in doing what's required, and they're not willing to
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: make sure that offenders are behind bars and not out
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  Speaker 4: there terrorizing our community on a daily basis, So nothing change.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: People messaging through this morning saying, can you please ask
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Lea if she has confidence in the Northern Territory Police
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Commissioner Katie? Doesleia have confidence in Chalker's leadership? There's like
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: a few different versions of the same question from different people.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: Sure, and ultimately it's very difficult from opposition. I'm not
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: saying this as a cop out, but I'm not his boss.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: Natasha files is, and so I don't have I'm not
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: privy to information she would have. What I know is
• 8:19
  Speaker 4: that things are not okay. I know that morale is
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: through the floor. I know that ninety seven percent of
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: our police don't feel like they're supported by their government.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: And I know that health and wellbeing is a major issue,
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  Speaker 4: which is why the best step I can take, the
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: most responsible action I can take, is to hold a
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: full inquiry into that police in crisis, which includes calling
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: not only the police commissioner but the entire executive of
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: the police force.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Does that just continue to drag things out here? Though?
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  Speaker 1: Isn't it a situation where we've got a boil that
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: needs to be lanced And what you're suggesting is that
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: we put a band aid on it.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: No, it would be a it could be a very
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: quick process.
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  Speaker 4: Another month in this situation is not going to change
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  Speaker 4: anything and ultimately would then give the community and me
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: the evidence we.
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  Speaker 3: Need to do what needs to be done.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: Ultimately, though, we have a situation where if the government
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: and the cabinet have formed some decision to ask the
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: police commissioner to leave, they need to either back their
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: decision in and come forward and front the community, or
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: they need to clear the air. But ultimately, this level
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: of uncertainty is just going to create massive problems for
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: our police force. Community safety is going to be at risk,
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: and ultimately, who is running our government? If Natasha Files
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: cannot even explain where our police commissioner is or who
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: is our police commissioner, then what hope do we have
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: of her dealing with any other issue in the territory?
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: All right, a few very quick questions.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Is the police commissioner's position right now tenable?
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Look, I think this is a disaster.
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: I don't know where Natasha Philes, Kate Ward or Jamie
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: Chalker can go from this point. All three of them
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: are now compromised and under a shroud of secrecy and
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: it's an possible situation.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: For any of them to come out of sounds like no.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: Well, well, how can we move forward from this point?
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: There needs to be right from the tops and clearing
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: the air of what is going on.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: Do you think that the Chief Minister's position is tenable
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: at this point?
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: We've just had two weeks of Parliament where she's ignored
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: the community on law and order and now we have
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: a situation where for days she is trying not to
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: answer a very simple question around whether or not the
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: Police Commissioner is still the police commissioner. I mean, if
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: she can't answer questions like that and deal with this issue,
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: she's not up for the job, and neither is Kate Warden,
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: the policemanister.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: So are you calling on them to step down? What
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: are you calling on this morning?
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: We're calling on them to today clear the air, give
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: absolute clarity to our police and the community on exactly
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: what is going on and what the plan is going forward,
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: because if they have asked the Police Commissioner to step down,
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: then the police and the community deserve to know what
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: that plan, what the arrangement is in the in the interim.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Leah very quick question before I let you go this morning,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: community courts. We know the Attorney General Chancey Pake on
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Thursday last week push to reinstate community courts in the
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: territory after they were abolished back in twenty twelve. He
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: reckons the community court sentencing structure would be a separate,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: standalone new court when he tabled that Sentencing Legislation Amendment
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Bill for twenty twenty three. So he has said the
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: community court sentencing procedure will be open to Aboriginal offenders
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: by application to the court where they've pleaded guilty to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: an offense in the local court or Youth Justice court
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: and have provided agreed facts to the court.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: LEA.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Should those community courts be reinstated, would it mean that
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: we've got a situation where people are actually attending those
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: community courts on country rather than coming into the likes
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: of Darwin to go to court.
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: I think this is cute politics, Katie, because anyone who's
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: been around the system knows that our judges go out
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: to communities now and hold court in community. So this
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: is not an issue of moving people around. Is there
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: some merit in it? I would say yes, But the
• 12:06
  Speaker 4: devil is always in the detail. This sounds very light
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: on to me, and of course, for a government who
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: has a proven track record in putting the rights of
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: offenders above the rights of people to be safe, it
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: just sounds to me like another reason, another excuse for
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: Labor to be letting criminals not face consequences.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: For their offending, and that's absolutely unaccepted.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Could the colp abolish those the community courts when you
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: guys were when you were in power.
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: Look, I'm not aware of that, Katie, and I haven't
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: heard the Labor government say it.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: If we had have done that, I'm sure it would
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: have been the first thing out of their mouth, Katie,
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: and I will tell I'm.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Really not sure.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I guess I was just more looking at the timing
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: of that twenty twelve when.
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: We just came into power in August that year, so
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: it would have been pretty quick work for us to
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: have scrapped that before the end of the year. It
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: possibly was scrapped by Labor either way, this government's been
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: in power for six long years and what we're seeing
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: is a lot of talk, no action, and ultimately, if
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: this is another way for offenders to have more of
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: a free ride, we're not interested.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: One of the interesting things I suppose at the moment, well,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: it's not that interesting.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: It's actually a terrible situation.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: But one of the situations we've got at the moment
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: is that, you know, our jails are overflowing. We've got
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: offenders that are being housed in the watchhouses because we
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: don't have enough room for them. I guess what I'm
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: getting to is, are there different ways that we could
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: actually deal with this situation? So you know, you've got
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: boot camps, so you've got different kinds of models that
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: you're working with, so that offenders are being rehabilitated on
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: country if they're low risk.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: Oh, there's lots of fantastic things you can do. Community
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: court I don't think is the answer to that. So
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: ultimately what we want to see is more low risk
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: prisoners in work camps. We know work camps mean that
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: prisoners are getting up, they're going to work, they're doing
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: the landscaping of towns. They're out there giving back to
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: their community. It's an important workforce. It then builds up
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: their skills and caper abilities of those individuals whilst they're incarcerated,
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: and hopefully connects them to a place of work. And
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: an opportunity for a job at the end of their
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: prison sentence.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: That's vital and important.
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: We need to be seeing much more of that than
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: what labor are delivering.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: Leah, quite a few messages here this morning, Matt in
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: driver Leah, simple yes or no? Would you retain Chalker
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: if you were elected the Chief Minister tomorrow?
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Unfortunately, Matt, I can't say. I just don't have the information.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: It would be reckless of me to do that from
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: my position. But what I've said is we would hold
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: a forensic inquiry and get the Police Commissioner to come
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: forward and explain very clearly why he should keep his job.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: So based on the former police surveys, based on the
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: evidence that you have right now of police officers leaving
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: the force, based on the level of crime that you're seeing,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: you still can't answer whether you do or don't think
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: that the Police Commissioner should stay in that role.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean the Chief Minister can't answer this, Katie,
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: it's ridiculous his boss. Ultimately, the crime is because Natasha
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: Files's laws are not strong enough. So that's why we
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: have crime. It's not because of any of our police.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: It's because the laws are broken and Natasha Files doesn't
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: want to fix them. And ultimately all of the issues
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: around morale and a lot of the other problems in
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: our police force are undoubtedly being contributed to by the
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: Police Commissioner and the executive, which is why we'd have
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: an inquiry. Equally, they're being exacerbated because the laws are broken.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: Our police are out there doing a job where they're
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: picking up offenders every day, they're getting bailed because the
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: laws are too weak and it is just a revolving
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: circus of criminality because this government puts the rights of
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: offenders above the rights of you out there to be safe.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Lea, we are going to have to leave it there.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Thank you as always for your time this morning.
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: Thank you take everyone.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: That's the Opposition leader, Leah Fanochi Aro