Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BONUS EPISODE | Zone 7: 25-Year Pursuit of Justice for Melissa Wolfenbarger

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BONUS EPISODE | Zone 7: 25-Year Pursuit of Justice for Melissa Wolfenbarger · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace here, I've got to tell you
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: about an incredible podcast I firmly believe you will not
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: only love, laugh, but learn from. It's Zone seven with
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: my longtime friend and colleague, forensic expert Cheryl McCollum. As
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: a crime scene investigator with years of experience in the system,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Cheryl brings a treasure trove of knowledge to Zone seven,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: diving into cold cases with an incredible perspective that only
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: someone in the business could bring. She brings on incredible
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: experts directly from her Zone seven network. Follow Zone seven
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: on your favorite podcast app, and without any further ad you,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: here is my friend, Cheryl mcallum.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Y'all, you don't always get the call when you work
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: cold cases. It could be five years, ten years, twenty
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: five years before you get that call. But honey, the
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: family of Melissa Wolfenberger got that call. Joining me today
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: is Melissa's mama, Norma and sister Tina. Norma and Tina
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: welcome to his own seven. Thank you, sir, honey. It's
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: been twenty five years for you and Norma, For you
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: and I, it's been seven seven years since you walked
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: into an event where I was speaking and you had
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: an eight y ten picture of Melissa, and you walked
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: up to me and said, my daughter was heading in Atlanta,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: will you help me?
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: That's exactly what I did.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Well, you've been fighting a long time, and you've been
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: talking to a lot of people, taking that eight x
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: ten picture with you everywhere. So I want to give
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: just a little background. In nineteen ninety eight, Thanksgiving is
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: the last time you spoke to your daughter Melissa. Right,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: what happened? What happened after that?
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: What happened after that is I didn't hear anything else
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: from her. I mean she didn't call Christmas, you know,
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: after she had asked for a specific gift for Christmas.
• 2:38
  Speaker 4: She didn't want anything that was storeball. She wanted something
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: that I had to look for and find to be
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: able to give to her.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: I had to.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: Look through a lot of pictures to find a good
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: one that I liked and thought that she would like.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: And then when she didn't show up, she didn't call,
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: I got worried.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: All she wanted was a picture of her and her grandfather.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Right, he called it Papa.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: And she didn't come get it. The sentimental gift, right, Tina,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: when did you first know that Melissa was missing.
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: When my dad walked into the restaurant where I worked
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: at and said, where's your sister. I said, I don't know.
• 3:20
  Speaker 5: You hadn't talked to her. He said no, he said,
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: she didn't. You know, we talked to her Thanksgiving Day,
• 3:26
  Speaker 5: Christmas Day. She didn't come. She didn't even call your
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: mama for her birthday. And that right there was the
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: sign because Listen always called mama.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: So that's when now the whole family by February is
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: word sick yep. So April of nineteen ninety nine, a
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: skull is found in the middle of Avon Avenue and
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: your mama. Normally you're watching the news.
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: I was, because I didn't know where she was. If
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: they said anything about a body being found any anywhere
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: on any of the local channels, I would always stop
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: and watch the news. And when I sat down and
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: watched the news, you know, they said it was a
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: mail and I said, okay, And then I thought, well,
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: Avon Avenue is I think on the north side of town,
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: because you know, in going around two eighty five, I
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: saw an exit that had Avon Avenue and I said, well,
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: that's north side of town, not in the same area,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: so I kind of brushed it off.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: So you were somewhat relieved that that wasn't your child, right,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: and then the skulls identified as a Caucasian mail So
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: we move on. Now, something else happened in your life
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: that was difficult. At this same time, your husband, Carl
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: is arrested.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Four years later.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Four years later, so Carl is arrested for several murders
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: that occurred in the seventies. Right around that same time
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: frame that Carl is arrested, he decides, Hey, I'm going
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: to tell the truth. I'm going to cop to it.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I'm going to tell him I did it. I'm going
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: to keep Norma out of it. I'm going to just
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: go into court, raise my hand and confess to all
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: And that's exactly what he did.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: In three separate courthouses in three separate counties. Yeah, so
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to state very clearly, Carl Patten is
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: a convicted killer. Carl Patten has admitted it. He's never
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: lied about it once they came to him. Carl and
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: I have been exchanging letters since twenty twenty one. When
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: I started on this case, it was important for me
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to have contact with Melissa's father, mother, and sister to
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: develop an accurate victimology. Through those letters, I learned a lot.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: I learned a lot about Carl. I learned a lot
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: about the Patent family. I learned a lot about Norma
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: and Tina. I learned about their loyalty, their love for
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: each other, and their unwavering devotion to get justice for Melissa.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: So Carl goes to prison and he says, you know what, Norma,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: I'm here. I'm stuck here. I can't search for Melissa.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: I can't do anything to try to help find her
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: or solve the situation for y'all as a family. So
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: he reaches out to the person that arrested him and
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: he says, hey, you caught me after twenty five years.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: You must be a pretty good detective. Will you help
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: look for my daughter? And to his credit, that detective
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: said yes. So he goes out and he says, huh,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: there's a skull unidentified and it's literally feet from the
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: front door of where Melissa's husband works. So he goes
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: to the Atlanta Police Department and says, are you this
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: is a mail and they get the dental records and
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: what happens Norma.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: On March seventeenth, two thousand and three, he pulled up
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: in my yard and I saw him when he pulled up,
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: and I walked outside on the porch and he come
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: up standing there talking and he told me she had
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: been identified and what had happened to her. And I
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: just busted out screaming and yelling, and my two oldest grandkids,
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: which were Tina's, came out to see what was what
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: was wrong, what I was upset about.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Tina, you are literally walking down the street and you
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: get a phone call from a friend that says, hey, girl,
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: of you watch the news.
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: Oh no, it wasn't a friend, it was my ex husband.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Oh well, let me change that now because I don't
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: want that out there in the universe. Okay, okay here,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: But that's the important thing, because again, even an ex
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: husband would reach out to you because this was going
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: to be so devastating for you, and he knew it.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So what does he tell you?
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: I said, I don't think Mom wanted to be the
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: one to notify me like that, so he took it
• 8:15
  Speaker 5: upon himself to do it.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: I was too upset to make that call.
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: So now you have confirmation that Melissa was beheaded and dismembered,
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: because you know from the news there was a skull
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: found in April, but that same June of nineteen ninety nine,
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: four more trash bags were found containing her arms and
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: legs and no norma. That to me is an unbearable
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: scenario to know that that is your baby.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: It was, and it's been. It's been hard.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Well it'll forever be hard. And Tina, you and I
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: have talked a lot, and I know you. I know
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: you now pretty good. And you know, what do you
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: do with it? You're now the surviving child. Your dad
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: is in prison, your mom is destroyed, and you are
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: now in the middle trying to help make your mama
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: work through it, get through it, survive it somehow. You've
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: got your children, You've got Melissa's children, You've got your dad,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: and you have been the one to me that has
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: glued this family together.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: I've tried.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: It's not easy, oh, I know. I remember the phone
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: call when you told me you were headed somewhere to
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: burn some stuff down. So, and those are just natural feelings.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, you get frustrated, you get angry, of course,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: and especially when things just seem so unjust. She did
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: not deserve what happened to her exactly. And I have
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: said over over and over and I will say it
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: again right here. The sins of the father have nothing
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: to do with what happened to Melissa. And here's the
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: deal about Carl. I'll say it again. Carl's in prison.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Carl deserves to be in prison for what he did.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: But what happened to Melissa she did not deserve in
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: any way whatsoever.
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: Nope, she sure didn't.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: And with what Carl did, that doesn't mean that something
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: should be able to happen to Melissa and we not
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: get justice for her. There should never be a killer
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: walk in the streets free. None of us should be
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: okay with that.
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: Nobody should be okay with that.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: So the reality is now, y'all. Now the Atlanta Police
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Department knows they have a homicide of Melissa Wolfenberger. That's
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: a completely different scenario. So they start to look at
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: the facts. Did her husband report her missing, did her
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: family report her missing? When was the last time she
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: showed up at work? When was the last time she
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: showed up anywhere she was supposed to be court, a
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: doctor's appointment to vote? Where was she was there any
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: sighting of her. Was there any phone call, any letter,
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: anything since nineteen ninety eight And the answer was no, nothing.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: And so her husband said, well, I saw her. She
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: was walking down the street and she told me she
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: was leaving to go to California to start a new life.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: And then he said she left over another man. Then
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: he said she left because she was going to be
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: doing some counterfeit identification cards and passports. I mean, he
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: has said several things that just don't make any sense.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: And here's the bottom line. Would Melissa have ever left
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: her children.
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: No way on this earth would she had left those
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: two kids. When I had my oldest tooth down here.
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: She helped me every day take care of them, and
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: she loved them just as much as she did her own.
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: She bought the year that Timberly started school. Well, let'sa
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: got clothes for her to wear the school. There is
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: no way, there's no way on this earth that she
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: would ever leave those babies.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Every time there's a case where there's small children, and
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: in this case they were one in two years old,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: and you hear somebody say, well, she just took off.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: She just left. She wanted a new life. That doesn't
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: ring true. And in this case, she didn't have a car,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: she didn't have any money to speak of. She didn't
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: take any clothes, she didn't take any jewelry, she didn't
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: take anything that meant something to her. And I'm going
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: to tell you again the only thing that how wanting
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: for Christmas was a photograph of her and her grandfather.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: This was a family oriented child. And I'm going to
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: tell y'all something. Can you be two things at once? Yes,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: you can be a sex worker and a fantastic mother.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: You can be a doctor and a roller derby queen.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: You can be a preacher and a breakdancer. I mean,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: you can be these things that seem polar opposite that
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: are not, if that makes any sense. And when you
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: look at Melissa's life, there is no way if she
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: wanted to leave Christopher. Listen, y'all. We can leave a man, okay,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: because we can get another one. May not be a
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: good one, but we can get another one. But we
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: don't leave our children because we can't get those children back.
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: Anytime Melissa left him, she wanted to take the kid.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: She always went back to the children. And when she left,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: he hounded her and hounded her to come back, tracked
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: her down, but not but not in nineteen ninety eight.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: He tracked her down one time, but he didn't track
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: her down in December when Stick left.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: That's right, he didn't have to. That's right, he didn't
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: have to. He knew where she was. Same reason he
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: didn't call you asking you have you seen her? He
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: didn't call Tina, have you seen her? He didn't call work,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: He didn't call anybody. She was even on probation at
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: the time. He didn't reach out to the probation officer.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: He had called them before to tell them stuff about her,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: but he sure Lord didn't after nineteen ninety eight, Sure didn't.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Y'all have twenty five years, y'all had some roadblocks. Y'all
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: had no activity at times. Y'all have changed detectives over
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: and over. People retire, they transfer out, they get promoted out.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: You've had different ADA Assistant District Attorneys. You've had to
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: reintroduce yourself to the ada's and reintroduce Melissa to make
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: sure they knew who she was. You've had to go
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: through the change of the DA. Y'all have gone from
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Paul Howard to Fannie Willis.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Thank God for that.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: We tried to get an appointment with Paul Howard, and
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: we're told that we couldn't even make an appointment without
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: her file being on his death.
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: We couldn't even get past the front door.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Cheryl.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: And then a high school friend of mine, Donna Jones,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: meets Tina. Yeah, and you know, Donna and I have
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: known each other since nineteen seventy nine, and me and
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: Donna and Walt went to college together. We've just had
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: a great time. And she's a tremendous person. So when
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: Norma walked in, I noticed her right away. And this
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: was like a kind of a formal dinner type event,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: and normal walks in, and she's got like Bermuda shorts
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: on and a tank top and a straw hat, like
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: she just came off the beach. It was hot, it
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: was hot, it was absolutely hot. But I noticed her,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: and I noticed she was hugging an eight by ten frame,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: so I knew it was somebody's mama and they were
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: either missing or murdered. And again when she walked up
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: to me, she said, this is my daughter, Melissa, and
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: showed me the picture. Beautiful, looked so kind, looked so sweet.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: In the picture, she was and she said she was
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: beheaded in Atlanta. Will you help me? And I said, well, yes,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, how in the world do you say no
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: to that? And I said, you know, come to my
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: office next week and let's talk about it. And that
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: was twenty seventeen, and she came the very next week,
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: and y'all, she brought a case file. It took about
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: two hand trucks to bring it in, I think. And
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: she walked in and she sat down and she said, look,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I know you've already said you would help me, but
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: there's something I got to tell you before we go
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: any further. And I said okay. And she said, my
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: husband is in prison for murder and I helped him.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: And if that's okay, will you still help me? And
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I thought to myself, I don't know that anybody has
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: ever been more honest with me in their life, because
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: I'm in a business where people lie to me pretty
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: much every day all day. And so I told her,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: of course, and then she starts talking about her husband
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: and I went, wait a minute, is your husband the
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Flint River Killer? And she said yes, and then she said,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: and he hates that moniker, he hates that nickname. So
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: after that meeting, we decided to put together an action
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: plan and we went to work and we had several
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: experts that joined us, so willingly donated their time and talents.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: And it's the first time in history that a convicted
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: serial killer became an actual victim of crime reached out
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: to law enforcement for help, who then reached out to
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: a nonprofit for help, the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Then what happened was a new DA was elected and
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Fannie Willis became the DA of Fulton County. Before she
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: took office, she agreed to meet with me and I
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: laid out five cases that I thought she could solve
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: relatively quickly. They were all, of course, cold cases. I
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: should have said that one of them was Melissa Wolfenberger.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: And Miss Willis told me that she was going to
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: put together a cold case unit, and she knew who
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: she wanted to head it up, and then she was
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: going to put together a task force and wanted me
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: on it. The first Assistant District Attorney that she put
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: over the cold case unit was Adrian Love. And when
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I tell y'all, Adrianan Love hit the ground running and
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: went to work. She met with me and Karen Greer
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: and Norma and Tina and Dwayne Thompson and Trey Sargent
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: out at the crime scene. She walked it. And here's
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: the other thing. She knew the whole history. She knew
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: the whole family history. She knew where Karl was, she
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: knew what had happened in the seventies, she knew everything.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: When she went over to the car and your mama
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: was sitting in the passenger seat, and they just talked,
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: and your mama was able to give her the victimology
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: as only a mama can. And she watched that dog work,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: trace work, two of her canines. Doctor Thompson was out
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: there with the metal detector. Karen Greer was out there
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: covering it. And I'm going to tell you Karen's involvement
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: has been invaluable. She has stayed on this case for
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: twenty years, maybe the whole twenty five, but I know
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: for a fact twenty and she has been devoted and
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: she's just been on this thing, is all I can
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: tell you. And then we had another big push and
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: another big person to come up and help. Nancy Grace said,
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I want to cover it. I won't end Norma, do
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: you remember the day I called you and said, Nancy Grace,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: won't you on her show?
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I said really, or something along that line.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: No, I think it was really. I think that's exactly
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: what happened. And we knew at that point we're going
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: to get some national attention. And when that sort of
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: thing starts to happen, the first thing I pray about is,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: please somebody come forward. Please somebody hear about this and
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: remember something, or maybe call and say, hey, the police
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: never interviewed me, but here's something that I know because
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: in cold cases that happens all the time. So you
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: and Tina again, put it out there. Buck up and
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: get your emotions all twisted, because this is not you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: this is not easy for y'all to talk about. You'll
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: feel it the whole day. It, you know, brings everything
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: to the surface, so to speak. But there you are.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: And honey, Nancy Grace did what only Nancy Grace could do,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: and she stirred that pot. Baby. It was awesome. And
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: then she comes to me and she says, you know,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: you need to do a podcast, and I'm like, I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: ain't got time to do a podcast. I don't know
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: how to do a podcast. I'm not even sure what
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: one is. And she said, well, I'll help you, and
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna get you some folks. So, along with Karen
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and Trace and a ton of other experts came on
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: and we did I think a seven or nine part
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: series on Melissa's case, the series that we did on
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Zone Normal. We of course had you and Tina, We
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: had the original detective Detective Calhoun. We had several of
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: the experts Karen Greer, Tray Sargent, Dwayne Thompson, Joe Scott
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Morgan just unbelievable talent and expertise to help. And there
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: have been other people like Betsy Ramsey and Leslie Bailey
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: and doctor Joni Johnson and Joe Jackalone and Lisa Ribakoff Mooney.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: All of these people have said, yes, I want to help, Yes,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I see that we can get this into the finish line. Well,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: then when once Nancy Grace got involved, she took us
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: to Crime Con. We did a live Wine and Crime there.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Then we did a live Crime Stories with Nancy Grace
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: right from the stage. Well then that led us to
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Dateline because there was a producer there that I talked
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: to and I was like, look y'all, need to cover
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: this case because I think there's some folks out there,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: and we shaken up trees, somebody's gonna be able to
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: come forward. From the series that we did on Zone seven,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: a witness came forward. Now that by itself, to me,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: was amazing that Nancy had covered it, Dateline had covered it,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: Crime Con had covered it. All of this information is
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: out there, and that led this person to Zone seven.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Once they heard every single episode, they reached out to
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: me on social media and said, are you still covering
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Melissa's case? Well, honey, I couldn't type back fast enough. Yes,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: And then they said that they had some memory of
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: the way that Christopher treated her at a party once.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: So now I'm thinking, y'all, this thing actually just got
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: some new legs. So I reached out to Detective Shepherd,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: gave him the information, and he was on it. I
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: mean immediately he talked to the person, interviewed the person,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: and then he went back and interviewed Christina, Melissa's daughter.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: And then some dominoes started to fall pretty quick, didn't they.
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: Yep?
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: All right, Tina, talk about that a little bit. What
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: started to happen pretty quick?
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: Oh boy, let's see we went to Crime Con and
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: then every six from Orlando. It's been pretty much NonStop.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: And people keep asking. So from Crime Con, we got
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: a call from the Georgia Writers Museum and they said,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: can y'all come here and do a wine and crime
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: as well, which we did, and Joe Scott Morgan joined us.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Now I'm going to talk about Norma just a minute.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: She loves her from Joe Scott Morgan, y'all, and when
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: he walked into that room. For those of y'all that
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: are fans of body bags, you're making the right decision,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: But you need to be a fan of jo Scott Morgan.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: He is one of the most comforting, calming, reassuring people
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: I've ever met. Compassionate, he is so compassionate. The day
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: that we got the call that Christopher Wolfenberger has been
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: arrested for the murder of Melissa Wolfenberger, I thought Joe
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Scott almost had a better reaction than Norma because he
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: knows Norma, he knows Tina, he has worked this case.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: He went through the autopsy like nobody else could have
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: done it. He gave her information, not as an expert
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: to a crime victim. He spoke to her parent to
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: parent with as much love and concern as I've ever
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: seen in my life. So they love his voice, they
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: love his the way he just presents himself with such
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: confidence and such joy. But the reality is, I think
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: that y'all knew y'all had a true advocate in him. Yeah,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: we do, you do, absolutely so. Again, he came over
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: to Atlanta from Alabama and was with us, and then
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: the Hamptons who done it up in New York called
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: and said, can you present the whining crumb here? So
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: you literally have people from all over the country, from
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: the five thousand people that were at crime con from
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: all over to New York to Alabama. I mean, you've
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: just got people invested in what happened, and most importantly,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: the unjust of it that everybody wanted to see somebody
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: in custody for this murder. Norma, how are you feeling
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: right now today?
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: For lack of a better description, on Cloud nine.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: This has been a busy couple of days, But I
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: just I feel like I'm a lot younger than what
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: I am. I'm walking a little faster and getting things done,
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: and you know, it's just been it's been amazing.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: And Karen Greer.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: When I found when I found out he had been arrested,
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: and I called you and you were out of town
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: and found out Karen Greer was out of town. Well,
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: Karen Greer called me yesterday to check on me to
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: see how I was doing after the press conference.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And see, I just want to say something. I love her,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I adore her, and this is one reason why. And
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I have said over and over and I'm going to
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: say it again. As good as she is on TV,
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: she is better when that camera's off. She It's the truth.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: She is lovely and kind and general. But I'm going
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: to tell you something. Her heart, she leads with it.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: There have been more than one time where she and
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I have been at a scene and Melissa's crime scene
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: was one of them, and she would turn to me
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: and she would say, I am no longer a reporter
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: and you are no longer a crime scene investigator. We
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: are two mamas standing here. And that's how she feels.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Cherah.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: When we were at crime Con last year and she
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: I was sitting on the side, she was probably fifty
• 28:35
  Speaker 4: feet away from me as she walked by, and I
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: glanced up and realized that it was her and I
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: yem back, Karen, and she turned around and she thought
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: what she where she was headed and come back up
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: to me to talk to me.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Well, she's been in this thing. I mean, she's been
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: in it longer than I have, and just stellar and
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: again leads with her heart, and she's devoted to Melissa,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: she's devoted for justice. And I can't say nothing, but
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: I just love her. I adore her, I respect her.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I got nothing but accolades. And she always looks flawless.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Good lord, So y'all had her, y'all had Nancy Grace.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Now let's talk about that spitfire for a minute. You know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: Nancy is another one. You know exactly how she feels.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: She can't hide it. And I know when we did
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: her show, she puts it out here, she puts it
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: out there.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: But you know.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: She she feels. And here was the really touching thing
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: she called me after Crime Stories of Nancy Grace, when
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: she broke the news about the arrest, and she said,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: you know, this is the anniversary of Keith's murder. No,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: and she said it, she said, it's always just under
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: the surface. Anything can make it rise to the top.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: It could be a song, it could be you know,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: his favorite food. It could be a memory. But when
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: this kind of thing happens, you know, she feels it
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: on more levels than most people because she has lived
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: losing a loved one to murder. So she's connected to
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: y'all in an extraordinary way. So again, her heart on
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: this thing is pretty clear now, Tina, you at the
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: press conference were extraordinary. And in that moment when you
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: could have been selfish and you could have talked all
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: about your sister, all about your mama, all about you
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: and everything that y'all have done and your dad to
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: get justice for your sister, you didn't do that. You
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: took the opportunity to thank other people, which you did
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: not have to do in that moment, and then you
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: did the most extraordinary thing that I've seen. Through your
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: tears and your heartbreak, you stopped to help other people
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: tell everybody what you did.
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: You know, it was like I had so many emotions
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: going right then, just like I still do.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: I'm happy one second, and next second I'm in tears,
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: and then I'm happy again, and then my heart's breaking again,
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: like it's back twenty five years ago. You know, I
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: have tried so hard to be strong for my mom. Especially.
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: It's a little different with Dad because Dad's strong. But
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: I can see Mom and how she is suffering because
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: her and Melissa were so close. But I thought really
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: really hard to get this done for my sister. But
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: I couldn't have done it by myself and you and
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: Nancy Grace and Karen Greer. I love all three of y'all.
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: I cannot get up there and not say that if
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: it wasn't for y'all, we wouldn't be standing there because
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: we wouldn't be If Donnah had to introduce.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Me to you.
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: Mom would have never met you, we would have never
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: met Nancy Grace, we would have never met Karen Greer.
• 32:25
  Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. And I had to tell
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: them people, thank you. And I had to tell Atlanta
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: Pde thank you, even though you know at times I've
• 32:35
  Speaker 5: been like dag, I'm get off your butts, guys, but
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: you know, oh.
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I had to calm her, had to calm her
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: down quite a few times. Her and her Pearl too,
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: her dad. It was I had both of them. I said,
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: y'all got to be patent this think.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: I but Mom and Dad do not have pay Oh yeah,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: I've had I have called her a Carl Junior more
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: than once.
• 33:06
  Speaker 5: So even better, I have a customer that grew up
• 33:09
  Speaker 5: with my daddy that cost me hot Shot Junior. There
• 33:12
  Speaker 5: you go, Hotshot because that's my daddy's nickname.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: So Tina, again, I appreciate that so much. You will
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: never know what that meant to me personally, just to
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: hear you say that, and it really touched me. And
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Huck and Caroline were like, Mom, that was so crazy.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: She would say that you know about you, but it
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: means a lot to me. You have no idea. But
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: what I'm asking is what you did in that moment,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: which was so selfless, when you tried to protect other people.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: What did you say from that podium?
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: You know my sister was it was she suffered with
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: domestic violence.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: Chris abused her.
• 33:58
  Speaker 5: I don't know how many times I saw her with
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: bruises and scratches and handprints around her throat. And you
• 34:05
  Speaker 5: know I could not get her to listen to me
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: as much as I tried, and I mean I tried
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: really hard. Mom and Dad have no idea how much
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: I tried to get Melissa away from Chris behind doors.
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, and I do not want
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: my sister's case, her death, her murder, as brutal as
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: it was, to be in vain, to be for nothing.
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: There's got to be a reason why it happened, and
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: to me, it's to help other people, to get other
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: domestic violence people out of what they're in.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Amen. I believe that, and I believe you and Melissa
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: are going to be able to save a lot of lives.
• 34:53
  Speaker 5: Tell me Melissa's story, maybe somebody will actually listen and realize, Hey,
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: this could be me, this could be my mama, this
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: could be my sister, this could be my daughter. Come on, y'all,
• 35:04
  Speaker 5: wake up. Domestic violence is real. It's not a lie.
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: It's not a made up thing that Hollywood made up.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: It's true. It's real, and it happens every day.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Amen. Normal. Where are you headed when we hang up?
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: As soon as we hang up, I'm headed to Coastal
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: State Prison where Carl is to be able to sit
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: down and tell him about this week and everything that's
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: going on, because he needs to hear it. He's had
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: some help issues recently and he needs to something to
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: hold on to.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: You know, this case got started because a detective went
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: to the prison, met with Carl and promised Carl he
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: would help him. And one of the things that touched
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: me so much is we got the call on Tuesday,
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: but Carl wasn't going to be able to call home
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: till Thursday, so he wasn't going to know there was
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: an arrest. But ab Calhoun, the original detective, I.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Called him to tell him about the arrest.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: Tell us what he did.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: He was the fourth person I called, and when he
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: had said the phone, he said, I'm sitting here waiting
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: on your call.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: I said, okay. So anyway, on the conversation.
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: He asked me about Carl, as he did quite frequently,
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: and I told him Carl didn't know, and he wouldn't
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: know till Thursday because that was when he was going
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: to call home.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: He said, I know some higher up. I don't know.
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: I don't have the number, but I know who to
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: call to get the number. I said, okay, So anyway,
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: we ended the conversation and he got on apparently got
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: on the phone. When Carl called me Winsday, he told
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: me that that man went to Coastal State Prison. They
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: called him out at eleven o'clock on Wednesday morning and
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: told him that the rest was made and he and
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: he screamed and jumped up and down as loud as
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: I did.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable. So that, to me is just that full circle
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: moment where you have a detective that started this investigation
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: and he saw to it again, father to father. He
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: knew Carl needed to know, he had a right to know,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: and he made that happen. So I will forever be
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: grateful for Detective Calhoun.
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: I called him back after I talked to Carl, and
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: I told him. When he answered the phone, he said, yes, ma'am,
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: and I said, I just wanted to tell you thank you.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: And I told him when they got down there, and
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: he kind of wondered why why I waited to Wednesday morning,
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: but I figured that was because of the storm they
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: had down there this week.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely, yeah. I texted him as well, and when
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: I texted him, just how grateful I was and how
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: just touched I was by that. I don't even know
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: what you would call it.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: He told me. He said, ma'am, you don't ever have
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: to thank me.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: That's again, that's the kind of caliber of folks that
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: have been involved in this case. I think throughout, and
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I just thought that was a lovely sentiment. Oh sorry,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: that kind of got to me a little bit because again,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: you know, just father to father, he wanted to, you know,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: make sure that happened for him.
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: Just like he did when it first all happened. He
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: was the one to go down there and tell Dad.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: When Melissa was first identified formally, Detective Calhoun drove down
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: to the prison to make sure that he told Carl
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: in person what had happened to his child, and the
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: fact that he would then make sure that Carl knew
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: twenty five years later that an arrest had been made.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's just part of this story that I
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: think gets to me and chokes me up because again,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: at that point, just like Karen Greer says, that's just
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: a dad talking to a dad. All right, Tina Norma,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: anything y'all want to say that I haven't asked you
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: or you want to be sure y'all say.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: I just want to say that the men and women
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: in Atlanta PD that go out there every day and
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: have to deal with this sort of stuff and they
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: are just amazing and they.
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: Put their hearts and souls into it just like we do.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Amen, Right, on Tina.
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: We've seen a lot of changes over the past twenty
• 40:10
  Speaker 5: five years, and there's been a couple of changes that
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: I wasn't too happy with. There was a lady that
• 40:16
  Speaker 5: we had and I didn't care for her too much anyway.
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: But we got lucky when we started out with Calhoun,
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: and we've gotten lucky because now we have another Calhoun
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: that's Shepherd. But Shepherd was really, really, really being very
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: kind to us Tuesday when we got to that police
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: department and he said, if y'all have any questions for me,
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: y'all ask, and if you think of it after you
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: leave and need to ask, just call me. Well he
• 40:52
  Speaker 5: kept that promise because we called him on something else
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: later on and he really stepped up. So I just
• 41:01
  Speaker 5: want to say thank you, Shepherd.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I'm going to end Zone seven the way that
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: I always do with a quote. Chris's days are numbered,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: and I pray I'm there to see the look on
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: his face when his world comes crashing down. On that day,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Melissa will be smiling down from heaven and her children
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: and grandchildren will know the truth. She did not desert
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: her children. She was taken away from them. June sixteenth,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, A grateful father, Carl Patten. I'm Cheryl
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: McCollum and this is Zone seven.