Latest / INSPIRE STORY / Dream Expert_ _If You Dream Like This_ DON_T Ignore It__ – It_s Trying To Tell You Something BIG

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Dream Expert_ _If You Dream Like This_ DON_T Ignore It__ – It_s Trying To Tell You Something BIG · INSPIRE STORY

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Speaker 1: One third of our lives is potentially spent dreaming. Your
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waking life is feeding your dream life. That's a solar
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flare from your brain in a unique state that you
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can't get to during the day. Duel trained brain surgeon
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and neuroscientist doctor Raoul Jando the measurements of emotion in
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our dreaming brain can reach a top speed our waking
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brain can never reach. How are you processing? How are
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you metabolizing the most difficult thing in your day?
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Speaker 2: Hey everyone, I've got some huge news to share with you.
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In the last ninety days, seventy nine point four percent
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of our audience came from viewers and listeners that are
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not subscribed to this channel. There's research that shows that
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if you want to create a habit, make it easy
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to access. By hitting the subscribe button, you're creating a
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habit of learning how to be happier, healthier, and more healed.
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This would also mean the absolute world to me and
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help us make better, bigger, brighter content for you in
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the world. Subscribe right now.
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Speaker 1: The number one health and wellness podcast Jay Shetty, Jay
1:08
Sheddy Sez shet.
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Speaker 2: Everyone, Welcome back to On Purpose, to number one health
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podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one
1:18
of you that come back every week to listen, learn
1:21
and grow. I'm so excited because we've really been tapping
1:25
here on purpose into things you're fascinated about, Questions that
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you're thinking about, topics you're exploring, themes that you're wondering about,
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and this was one of those that I can't wait
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to share with you. This has been a theme I've
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been fascinated about. We're talking to the expert, the person
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who's thinking about it differently, who's open to the idea
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of this truly being discovery, all based on curiosity. Doctor
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Raoul Johndel is a dual trained brain surgeon and neuroscientist
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at City of Hope in Los Angeles. Doctor John Deal
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leads the John Deale Lab, which explores the intersection of
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neurobiology and cancer. As part of his nonprofit that he founded,
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he teaches and performs pediatric neurosurgery in charity hospitals in
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South America and Eastern Europe. Today, we're talking about his
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newest book out now, This Is Why You Dream. Welcome
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to the show, Raul, John Dale Roll, It's great to
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see you.
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Speaker 1: Pleasure of mine.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for being here.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to do this.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really grateful. And like I said to you, honestly,
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this is usually when we're doing an interview, I'm like,
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all right, I'm gonna you know, I've got certain questions.
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I'm going to go with the flow and the amount
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of questions we've had from our team, our audience, our community.
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It's never happened before. I'm just telling you that. And
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so you're going to see me reading out questions from
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real people who've sent them in for you to understand
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more about dreaming, which I think is probably one of
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the most undiscovered, untapped, misunderstood, or completely ununderstood areas of
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our lives. So let's dive straight into it. And the
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first question I have for you is does everyone dream?
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Speaker 1: I think so. So here's how I describe it. I
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would first say, let's bust a major myth that dreaming
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and sleep is the time of rest for our brains.
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Our brains are not resting while we sleep. Just imagine
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somebody lying down and when they're sleeping, the heart is
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flickering a little bit of electricity from the EKG that
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we put on the surface of their heart. We put
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a bunch of stickers on the surface of the scalp,
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and there's vibrant electricity while we're sleeping. The electricity our
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brain generates while we sleep is as hot as the
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electricity our brains are generating now, So that's the first thing.
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The second thing is the heart. When it's pushing up
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the blood, the brain is mopping up glucose, it's burning
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hot metabolically, So inside our skull while we're lying down,
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even though we don't remember a lot of it, we're
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burning hot and we're spark electricity. So people who remember
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their dreams and people who don't remember their dreams, that
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brain is still sparkling hot and generating a lot of electricity.
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So I think it's more of memory recall in the morning.
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At the same time, we all know about a nightmare,
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so we've all had one dream. The question is why
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do some people dream more, dream less, or remember their
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dreams more remember their dreams less. And that's something I
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think is related to the variety of human experience. We
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don't hold our waking thoughts to the same rigid contours, right,
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So our dreamscape, our dream life is individual between us,
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and we remember more when we're younger, we remember less
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as we get older, and then in certain diseases, dreams
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come to the rescue. And it seems now that at
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the end of life, like with my cancer patients, dreams
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return and they're filled with reconciliation. You would think in
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their struggle, like you know, there would be dark, but
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they're actually positive. So those patterns of dreams are there.
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The brain electricity is firing while we sleep, and that's
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the sort of foundation from which I try to find
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meaning and.
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Speaker 2: Dreaming absolutely, I mean, the book is called This Is
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Why You Dream? Why do we dream? And why is
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it important for us to understand why we dream? Because
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I think a lot of people say, yeah, I dream.
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Sometimes someone said don't, who cares? What's the big deal?
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But I'm fascinated by it. I know a lot of
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people are, So why do we dream? And why is
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it important to try to understand why we dream?
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Speaker 1: The it's not a big deal is completely off for
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those people who think it. If they understand one third
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of our lives is potentially spent dreaming, and the brain
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shuts the stand right, it's just one third, Like that
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can't be passive and it puts you down right like
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you get sleep pressure, like I got to sleep well
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when I was in training and surgical training. We skip
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a night of sleep. What happens when somebody skips a
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night of sleep? The next night they dream harder and earlier.
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If I can be so bold, I think sleep is
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for the brain. It's not for our thigh muscle, it's
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not for our liver. There are some metabolic changes. I'm
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not discounting all of it, but the real thing driving
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us to sleep is our brain. What does our brain
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do just vibranly when we sleep? So that's like my
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straight up answer about like that thing that's not happening
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on accident, right, that's not a glitch that didn't last
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through thirty thousand generations accidentally. And so then the question
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becomes if we have this vibrant one third of our
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lives that we partially remember sometimes remember sometimes there's an
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exciting journey, sometimes an erotic journey. Sometimes it's a nightmare,
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like what's that all about? You know? And the way
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I've come to understand it is, first, you know, given
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respect to people who've tried to come up with some
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ideas like it's a threat rehearsal if we're running from
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a wooly mammoth, and our dreams were better prepared for
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during the day. What I would say is maybe. And
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when I say maybe, you're likely, it's not a respect
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for you and your listeners. I don't want to be
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that guy that comes in here says yes no about
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something as big and magical as dreaming, So threat rehearsal.
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Maybe some people think it's a nocturnal therapist because towards
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the morning, when we have more of our vivid dreams,
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the emotional balance, the valence they call it, tends to
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be more positive. Maybe I like to think of it
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as something that's sparks creativity because of what happens with
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the dreaming brain. The dreaming brain looks for looser dots
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to connect. It's imaginative by design, logic is dampened down.
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So I think it's our creativity engine. And then the
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way I put it all together is with something straight
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up called use it or Lose it that people know
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about when we talk about the brain, right, they say, hey,
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use it or lose it. We know if we don't
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use our biceps the atrophy, but our day if you
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look at the brain activation electricity is so narrow the
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brain wants to be efficient, right, because it's an energy hog.
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It's only like four or five pounds, but it uses
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twenty percent of our blood. So the brain during the
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day to navigate the world task on outward executive network
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logic wants to be efficient, driving down the one to
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one easily, going on the tube easily, not have to
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activate everything to get that done. If we only use
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those limited parts of our brain during the day and
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didn't have some way to high intensity train them, those
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would go derelic we wouldn't use them, and we may
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lose them. So I think in the biggest way possible
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is that dreaming process. Dreams and dreaming is high intensity
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training for our brain. It keeps those corners engaged, It
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keeps those neurons firing that might not during the day,
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and those are available to us the next day for
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a creative process, for the next day, or the next year,
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or the next generation for an adaptive process. That's my biggest,
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most romantic way of thinking about about why we dream
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so hard.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like them, maybe because I think we've all
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had different dreams that you feel you had for different reasons,
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and there are some dreams that you did feel well.
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Like you said, like you're a nocturnal therapist, this feeling
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of like, Okay.
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Speaker 1: I'm healing them there, you're working something out.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're working something out. I've definitely had dreams where
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I feel like, oh my gosh, like this feels like
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it's mirroring my reality and I'm either preparing or I'm
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dealing with it internally. And I think you're so right
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that there's so many different processes and it's hard to
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nail it down to one. Is there a way to
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start to label and define or do you think that's
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unhealthy when it comes to dreaming?
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Speaker 1: Perfect question? So to the maybe, I'll add likely you know,
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not yes and not no when it comes to my dream,
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your dream infinitely wild. Okay, but what happens when you
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start looking at ten thousand dreams? What happens when you
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start So I'm over here, so there is no like
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professor of dream science right, So now I was like
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when they asked me, the publisher asked me like, can
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you put a book together about this? I think we're
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vibing about this before we uh, before we went live
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with this or recording with this. And it was like
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they're like, you wrote this thing about the brain, like
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you know, smart drugs, Alzheimer's creativity. Then you wrote this
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thing about the mind, like resilience and trauma and belief
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and about your own struggles. Why don't you put together
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something about dreams from a scientific perspective that everybody can read.
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And I was like, there's going to be so many gaps,
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And they said, then let us know where the gaps are,
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say maybe, say likely, and say I wonder, I believe,
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And that's what I've tried to do in the book.
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But to your question about when I started this process,
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when I looked at not your dream, my dream, but
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ten thousand dreams, Aristotle was writing about lucid dreaming a
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couple hundred years ago, they're still writing about being chased
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or falling. And I was like, wait a second, there
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are patterns to dream reports, like now they have dream banks.
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So the first thing I noticed was nightmares and erotic
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dreams are essentially universal. And I say essentially because it's
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ninety plus in this world is considered a hundred, right,
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because that's just how science works when you look at
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questionnaires and surveys, So everybody's at a nightmare, erotic dreams
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are almost all the way up there, and then chasing
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falling falling teeth that seems to be common. And then
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there was a dream that was very rarely reported doing math.
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I don't like math, so I was like, that's all
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good for me. But you start when you look at
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lots of thousands of dreams like why is that one
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so low? Then now walk with me over here. Then
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you start looking at brain scans and brain electricity and
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what happens. What's the difference between the waking brain and
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the dreaming brain? Right in a twenty four hour cycle,
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we're about two thirds waking brain and one third dreaming brain.
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And there are some transition zones that I love, like
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I call liminal states or blurry zones that we can
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get into. But that when you see that and you say, well,
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what's the difference? I started off with like they're both
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burning hot, they're both sparkling electricity, So what's the difference.
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So when you go from waking brain to dreaming brain,
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what happens is the need to look outward changes, right,
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And so the executive network, a collection of structures, not
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just one thing, dampens. Logic and math ability damp and
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they don't turn off. Nothing turns off on the brain.
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Otherwise that you know, you'd have a stroke. So it
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dampens the imagination network and the emotional systems called the
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limbic structures are liberated. So if we know now now
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that the dreaming brain as a measurement, not my opinion, right,
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we can talk about opinions, but this is a measurement.
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If the dreaming brain has dampened logic and reason and math,
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liberated emotion, hyper visual, it kind of makes sense why
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we don't see a lot of math, because that part
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of the brain that does that is to take in
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a back seat while we dream. So I said, okay,
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even if that's the only thing I can say in
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this book and some youngster you know, ten twenty thirty
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years from now, it takes more data from dream banks
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that are more inclusive and bringing in more people that
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patterns of how we dream, you know, and what we
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dream can be explained by the brain. I thought to me,
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that was fascinating. So dreams are not limitless. Yours is
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mine is. But when you look at a lot of them,
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nightmares happen universally. Erotic dreams happen essentially universally, and then
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we find very emotional, visual movement based dreams.
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Speaker 2: That's fascinating. I mean, you don't even think about it
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that way, and I think so often it's kind of
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it's it's interesting because it's a microcosm of how we
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live our lives. Like we live our lives thinking no
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one understands me, no one knows what I'm going through,
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only I have this experience. And then all of a sudden,
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when you zoom out and you look at the patterns,
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you're like, wait a minute, we're all struggling with the
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same thing. I was just talking to someone earlier and
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we were talking about how like we seem to be
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the problem solvers in our families, and then you start realizing, how,
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wait a minute, we're all trying to solve the same problems.
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We're dealing with the same emotions, and those patterns are
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so useful in finding So have they basically looked at
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dream patterns and then looked at stress patterns and lifestyle patterns,
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like is that what you're measuring them against? Or what
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are the patterns being measured against? So if out of
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the ten thousand people, nine thousand people dreamt about their
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teeth falling out. What then are we measuring in their
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life to make sense of that dream?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. And also we tend to
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fall into the same traps, right. I think that looking
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at brain science shows that, yes, we're individuals, but what's
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driving us and what's holding us back is also something
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we share. That's why these conversations, that's why a certain
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book or a certain song or certain interaction can kind
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of liberate you. And so the way I would explain
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this is the dream patterns that they're looking at. And
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when I say they, I mean twenty forty years of
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different studies. I'm trying to stitch it together. Let me
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give you a specific one. There was one survey questionnaire
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where women going through divorce when their dreams they were
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reconciling in their dreams, that things were breaking up and
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people were moving on. Those as a group tended to
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recover from divorce better. And so when you just look
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into you just say, okay, that's very interesting. Those that
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were struggling in their dreams were also ones more likely
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to have depression longer. And so what that does to
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me is that invites a conversation. So does the dream
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or the dreaming brain kind of give a clue to
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how well you're coping with your real waking life stress.
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That by itself is powerful that one it knows about it. It
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ain't some other brain, it's your brain. It's just in
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this dreaming mode, so it knows about it. Your waking
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life is feeding your dream life. I mean, six seven,
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eight hours, how are you processing, how are you digesting?
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How are you metabolizing the most difficult thing in your day?
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And I think that's where I love it is that
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it's not distinct and that the dreaming brain can be
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your shepherd. It can be the thing that helps you
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process its emotional trauma. And for people with PTSD, it
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can actually actually play back flashbacks. So it's a wild
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space that leans emotional, leans visual. Let me give you
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a second example with my patients end of life cancer
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patients dreams are expansive, positive, filled with reconciliation. As they're
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asking for surgery and all that. You would think they're
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all going to be horrific because it's dark. Tis stress, right,
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You would think day stress is turned into dreaming stress.
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But the connection is not clear. And that's where I
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think there's power in our dream life. I think in general,
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when I look at all the surveys, dreaming is our
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shepherd at the end of life. I think nightmares and
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erotic dreams cultivate the young mind, much like our minds
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are cultivating adolescents. Dreams mirror and reflect what's going on
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during our life. For example, pregnancy dreams women who are pregnant,
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their dreams are very different rolling over in bed what
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the babies are gonna be called. So sometimes waking anxiety
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and dream anxiety clearly linked. I gotta give a talk tomorrow.
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I got a dream showing up naked. I gotta I
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gotta exam alarms. Sometimes they're clear. Sometimes they're your companion,
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pregnancy dreams, end of life dreams. Sometimes they are just jumps.
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Not everything's gonna make sense right, our waking life doesn't
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make sense. So I think when you start to look
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at those categories, the fourth category being universal dreams, nightmares
16:53
and erotic dreams, and children, then the one we're left
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with that the one that now I spend even more
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time with, is that hyper emotional, hyper visual that lingers
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into the next day. What I would say is, don't
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let that one go. That's a solar flare from your
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brain in a unique state that you can't get to
17:15
during the day. Hyper emotional, hyper liberated. The measurements of
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emotion in our dreaming brain can reach a top speed
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our waking brain can never reach. So for me, when
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I look at the whole thing, the hyper emotional hyper
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visual with a central image is a dream that has
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broken out from your dream life. That is about you
17:37
that a therapist can't get to. I mean, it's your
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brain conjured it and that's one to reflect on. What
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I would say is like not every time, not everyone,
17:47
but in our search for wellness and healing, that's a
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free and accessible portal. And when I was working on
17:54
this book with the UK publishers, there were like seven
17:57
or eight people who are like, we're dreaming more, We're
17:59
remembering our dreams more. Some lucid you know, had lucid dreams.
18:03
So that's the second thing I would say is that
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this can be induced and cultivated. You're not a passenger
18:10
with your dream life and what you remember from your
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dream life. You can also cultivate that you're not a
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passenger at that stage either.
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Speaker 2: Let's talk about that a little. So I was going
18:19
to ask you if you don't remember your dream if
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you don't make the subconscious conscious, does that mean that
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it doesn't have an effect? And are you encouraging us
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to take time to actually make the subconscious conscious and
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reflect on our dreams.
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Speaker 1: I would say the first question is I can't answer
18:38
that fully. The second question is absolutely try to engage
18:41
your dream life sleep entry when you go from waking
18:44
to dreaming like Salvador Dali did or Christopher Nolan's talking
18:47
about inception sleep exit, which we can get into lucid dreaming.
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The answer to the question should we engage our dream life? Yes, yes, yes,
18:55
I got a lot of science on that. I got it.
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Speaker 2: Let's let's let's dive into that. I mean, there's anything
19:00
I want to talk about. Butt's seeing as we've gone
19:02
there now, let's dive into it now. So let's talk
19:05
about the process of being more of a proactive leader
19:10
in our dreams and not a passenger in our dreams.
19:12
What absolutely look right? Because I would argue that anyone
19:15
I talked to we're all passengers in our dreams. We
19:18
simply go to bed, we may remember, we may not remember,
19:22
we show up. It's like the car journey, right, We
19:24
jumped in the car. You've got to see it for
19:25
a bit. You got to the other side. Maybe you
19:27
remember a tree you saw along the way, or your
19:29
mom and dad did something when you were a kid,
19:30
but you don't remember most of it. It doesn't really matter.
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Speaker 1: You're in the driver's seat of a car. You can't control.
19:34
It seems that way that one will get to with
19:37
lucid dreaming. But how you can affect your dreams because
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we've gotten to the science I believe the irrelevant. Let's
19:43
take this first stage. You go from waking to dreaming
19:49
right whatever time. That is, not every time, not for everyone,
19:52
but just the fact that it's possible. That's something called
19:54
sleep entry. Okay, with those surface electros on our scale,
20:00
the electricity blends. It's like a liminal state. Like I
20:04
used to be a scuba diver, and when you go
20:06
from a freshwater river to an ocean, it's not like
20:09
there's a crispline, there's a blurry zone. Similarly, when we
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go from waking to dreaming, there's about a ten to
20:16
fifteen minute period called sleep entry. Salvador Dali and some
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current tech companies in San Francisco, they believe that during
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that period you kind of sort of have access to
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that divergent creative ideation of dreaming and that they can
20:31
extract ideas from there. So much so Thomas Edison with
20:35
the light Bulb, would like would fall asleep in a chair,
20:38
and when he'd fall asleep and he'd start himself awake,
20:41
he'd write down what he was thinking that that was
20:42
a scene and inception. Right, So I'm just out bringing
20:45
the science in, But that's there. Christopher Nolan's talking about that.
20:48
Salvador Dolly wrote a book about that. You know, his
20:51
stuff is surreal like the and so that period is
20:56
the first entry into dream life that you can still
20:59
hold on to. And what we're finding is that people
21:03
have more interesting ideas, they have more divergent thinking and
21:07
creative ideas at that window. Is that But to be clear,
21:11
your trouble at work. You got to create a project.
21:14
Is that going to guarantee it? No, But it's a
21:15
habit of respecting that transition liminal zone as a portal
21:20
to a state your brain is not in when you're
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awake or not in when you're dreaming. Right. So that's
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one thing that people can do to cultivate in that
21:29
same area. Some people peel and report questionnaires and surveys,
21:33
not measurements that what you think about at that time
21:37
will be more likely to populate your dream life, whether
21:40
you remember or not, and may lead to the aha
21:42
moment the next day. Let me give you a specific example.
21:45
I'm a cancer surgeon. Cancer eats some blood vessels and
21:47
tissues in different ways on challenging cases. I'll flip the
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images through as the last thing I go to bed
21:53
thinking about. And somebody asked me this in London. They said, well,
21:57
your dream of surgery. I said, no, I've never dreamt.
22:00
I've never dreamt a surgery. But I have a lot
22:01
of dreams of scuba diving, navigating mazes, going through forests.
22:06
And so what I concluded is my opinion is that
22:09
that it's a three dimensional space, and I know I'm
22:12
working on a three dimensional creative project, and that my
22:15
dream life is somehow rehearsing that, practicing that, providing me
22:20
with that maneuver in a complex surgery. And I say, manah,
22:24
that was where did that come from? Sometimes I think
22:26
it wasn't like in this scenario six, I will come
22:29
up with solution four. No, like things arise during our
22:32
waking life, and I think that dreaming brain builds that.
22:36
So sleep entry for waking up intentionally and writing down
22:42
your thoughts and journaling at that moment, journaling in general
22:45
about what you want to dream about, for me, looking
22:48
at pictures about a surgery. Those are specific things as
22:51
you fall asleep that somebody can try.
22:53
Speaker 2: Wow, that's fascinating because I think journaling has taken off
22:57
so much in culture and.
22:59
Speaker 1: I'm trying to bring some science to it.
23:00
Speaker 2: I think the act of journaling straight after waking up,
23:04
like immediately. I know for a fact that if I
23:07
pick up my phone first thing in the morning, which
23:09
I try to avoid to do, but when it does happen,
23:12
I forget my dream immediately. Yeah, And I know I
23:15
wake up kind of in a dream state and then
23:18
I completely shut it off. Have you found links between
23:22
going to sleep with your phone or without your phone
23:24
and how that affects our dreams? Or if you watch
23:27
a particular show and TV and how does that affect
23:29
your dream and what you do in the morning. Does
23:31
that have any correlation?
23:33
Speaker 1: So that's a great question. The thing you said about
23:34
waking up, I'll get to that at sleep exit, because
23:37
there's some interesting science there. But when you look at
23:39
all these surveys, that's why I open up with, like,
23:41
we need more dream banks. We need people who have
23:44
a great exposure to social media to start talking about
23:48
the dreams. At this point, it doesn't look like they
23:50
populate dreams. Let's take a specific example. Erotic dreams tend
23:55
to be about a narrow group of people in your
23:58
life family, even when you're younger, repellent bosses and celebrities.
24:02
So I'm curious to see, like right, Like, so now
24:05
that doesn't mean there's one hundred papers on that, but
24:08
those are the spring. That's the sprinkling of information that
24:10
I saw. Like, so, what becomes familiar to the bosses? Well,
24:13
you know people can have like awkward dreams about bosses, right,
24:17
they have sexual dreams about people they actually are not
24:19
attracted to. That's a big category of erotic dreams.
24:22
Speaker 2: But is there any reasoning to that specifically because of
24:25
being erotic dreams about people you are not attracted to? Like,
24:29
where does that come from?
24:30
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's now we're getting into opinion. Yeah,
24:33
I think I think it's a power dynamic play, and
24:35
I think intimacy can be both collaborative and also a
24:38
power dynamic in some mix of it. All right, but
24:40
that's just that's an exploration. But erotic dreams, since we're
24:43
there and we'll get back to sleep exit is they're interesting.
24:49
We all get them. They come before we've done the
24:51
erotic act, even if we haven't seen it. So it's
24:54
it's almost like an instruction, if you will, an inheritance
24:58
of thinking, not just taking or mental health, but we
25:03
inherit those dreams. Even to people who never go on
25:06
to have sex, they still have erotic dreams, almost like
25:08
a playbook that's meant for a mind to activate our
25:11
brain and bodies for the act to pro create. That's
25:13
the big topic. The specific thing is across cultures, different
25:18
over generations, the percentages are surprisingly similar ninety plus. The
25:23
other surprising thing is that eighty to ninety percent in
25:27
these reports, infidelity cheating is common erotic dreams. Whether you're
25:33
in a healthy relationship, whether you're lying about in a
25:36
healthy relationship and covening somebody else, or whether you're in
25:39
a bad relationship. It's almost almost like a semi built
25:43
in thing. And I think that's how I've learned to
25:46
think about erotic dreams is that's just desire. It's like
25:49
a flare of desire. It interestingly tends to be toward
25:53
a narrow group, but the acts tend to be wild.
25:57
Speaker 2: There's a few points that you made in the book
25:58
that fascinated me as we're on the topic of erotic dreams.
26:01
I was sharing it with the team earlier. So there's
26:03
three things here, but let's go one by one. So
26:06
erotic dreams are not fueled by masturbation or pornography. Walk
26:09
me through that.
26:10
Speaker 1: That's what some reports a decade ago mentioned. Now that
26:14
might be changing, But what's interesting to me there is
26:18
it's not what we do during the day that shows
26:24
up in erotic dreams. It's actually what we fantasize about
26:28
secretly during our day that's more likely to show up
26:31
in erotic dreams. And scientifically, to me, I think that
26:35
makes a lot of sense because the dreaming process is
26:38
the imagination network liberated, So it makes sense that what
26:43
you imagine in your dream life is more connected to
26:46
the fantasy you're having while you're awake. It doesn't matter
26:50
the sexual act the sexual person. That what brings someone
26:56
to climax, the thoughts they have during that process with
27:01
their lover, without their level. It's the internal thinking of
27:05
desire during the day that tends to find itself in
27:10
erotic dreams. And to me, that's consistent if you think
27:14
about the dreaming brain as something that has the liberated
27:18
imagination network. It's an imaginative process. Right, your eyes are closed.
27:22
That movie you're making for yourself, So whatever you're thinking
27:25
about during the day, you know that's the movie you're
27:27
making at night.
27:28
Speaker 2: So then getting back to what you're saying earlier, if
27:30
someone's in a happy relationship, but you're saying it's still
27:33
common for them to cheat in their dreams.
27:35
Speaker 1: That's a separate pattern. Yeah.
27:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a pattern that you've seen. So is that
27:39
an argument then that that doesn't maybe happy in the relationship,
27:42
but then they're okay fantasizing.
27:44
Speaker 1: I can't answer that. No, no, no, I love the question.
27:47
That's a deep question. What I would say to you
27:49
is from there, what people ask is if you have dreams,
27:52
tend to have more bisexuality. So does that mean you
27:56
have you're bisexual, you just haven't figured that out, or
27:58
you're not sharing that with somebody during the day. I
28:00
can't answer that but I think as we bring in
28:03
more reports from dream banks and bring in more cultures,
28:07
more backgrounds, more genders, and more diverse sort of perspectives
28:11
on sexuality, we'll get insights into that. But that's a
28:14
very individual thing. So as a whole, there's a lot
28:17
of cheating in erotic dreams. As a whole, what shows
28:21
up in our erotic dreams is what we imagine and
28:24
then it leaves it to the person. That's why I
28:26
open with, like, you know, people have asked me like,
28:29
if you dream of your ex, does that mean you
28:31
really want them? I was like, well, if you're just
28:33
seriously thinking to still thinking, if you're hung up on
28:35
them during the day you're dream about your ex, that
28:36
means one thing. But if you're like, no, I've really
28:38
moved on and the lover pops up in your dream,
28:42
I think that's just a solar flare of desire. I
28:44
wouldn't make much of that.
28:45
Speaker 2: I think that's the hard part, right. I think what
28:48
we don't know is how seriously to take some of
28:51
these to take a dream or not, Because I feel
28:54
like a lot of people exactly like you just said,
28:56
you have a dream about something you're thinking, Oh, God,
28:58
maybe I need that, maybe I don't, And is that
29:01
a lack of self awareness? Is it because the dream
29:04
is not clear? Like? How do we how have you
29:07
thought about that as you've reflected on dreaming. How do
29:10
we get better at knowing whether to take a dream
29:12
seriously or not? Because I feel like that would help
29:15
solve so much of our conundrum or dilemmas that's created
29:19
by dreams.
29:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big question. It's a big question. It's
29:22
a big question.
29:22
Speaker 2: I'd love to know your thoughts.
29:24
Speaker 1: Yeah. My opinion about it is that one, dreams should
29:28
not be neglected. Okay, nightmares, if they pop up and
29:32
they arrive out of the blue, they shouldn't be neglected.
29:35
I think dreams that are flashbacks after PTSD obviously should
29:39
not be neglected. So there's some dreams that have an
29:43
easier rule to follow if you will. But then what
29:45
about those other dreams that you're bringing up right, like
29:49
intensely emotional to linger with you during the day, and
29:52
you're wondering like, wait a second, is that an insight
29:54
to myself that I don't even have yet about myself?
29:58
Should I discuss this with a thing therapist? Should I
30:00
discuss this with my lover, and I think the way
30:03
I've started to reflect on my dreams a bit more
30:07
is that when they are hyper emotional, it's an invitation
30:13
to look at your life differently. Right, I feel like
30:18
I'm doing well, I'm high achieving, I'm doing this. I'm not.
30:21
You know, you feel like, no, it's fine, I'm dealing
30:22
with a broken relationship. But if you start having nightmares,
30:26
or if you have emotional dreams that are filled with
30:29
fright or regret. I'm not saying that that there's never
30:33
an automatic link, right other than showing up naked at
30:36
a podium or I'm not going off. But the one
30:38
that's powerful haunts you, doesn't make sense. That's an invitation
30:44
to think about something, and back to our original conversation.
30:47
To me, that's a life well examined is paying attention
30:51
to the emotional, powerful dreams that you have that linger
30:55
with you. The dream is symbolic to get to your
30:58
answer in the most specific the dream is a metaphor.
31:02
The dream is symbolism because from the dreaming brain and
31:05
you've hyper visual, hygher emotional, it's not going to spell
31:09
it out for you. It's going to be metaphorical, it's
31:13
going to be symbolic. Specific example, Vietnam veterans who had
31:17
PTSD got better, they start going through divorce, they're not
31:22
and they're struggling. They're not dreaming of divorce, they're dreaming
31:25
of war again. So the experiences you're having, they're an
31:29
invitation to reflect. The meaning is metaphorical and symbolic, all
31:33
based on how the dreaming brain is built, and it's personal.
31:37
It's hard to say a bridge or a light bulb
31:40
in your life at this moment is going to be
31:43
the same meaning for me at this at this moment,
31:45
in my life, or my life ten years from now,
31:47
not just former versions of myself. So I'm not here
31:51
to refute anything. But it's a very personal process. Your
31:55
brain made it. It's it's an emotion to a hyper
31:57
emotional state. It could mean nothing, it could mean something.
32:01
But what I'm here to say is take a look
32:03
at it. Yeah, it's not just static.
32:05
Speaker 2: No, I think that's I completely agree with you. I
32:07
think it's a great point, and I feel like it's
32:10
really interesting because it then goes back to the idea
32:13
that humans are meaning makers and that we're storytellers. And
32:18
if you're looking at a metal a.
32:19
Speaker 1: Lot on that man.
32:20
Speaker 2: Then you're trying to figure out and if you have
32:22
a if you have a negativity bias in your conscious mind,
32:27
I wonder how much like I'll give an example. I
32:30
was talking to someone the other day and they were
32:31
saying that they'd been dreaming about bears, and so I
32:35
started googling what that means, and I was gonna ask you,
32:37
and I was googling about it. It was really interesting
32:39
because in a conscious state, a big bear feels scary
32:45
and it feels like death, and it feels like run away.
32:49
And that's how they saw a bear in their dream.
32:52
But then when you looked at the dream spiritual version,
32:56
whatever you call it, the interpret sorry, when you look
32:59
at dream interpretation, the interpretation of that was bears represent
33:03
strength and they represent courage, and they have the symbol
33:06
in nawgo. So it's depends, right, Yeah, depends, Yeah.
33:09
Speaker 1: It depends on which brain conjured up which image you
33:12
work in the circus, bear means one thing you know,
33:15
your hunter, bear means one thing you know. In culture,
33:18
bear means something else. So I like that. But just
33:21
to go back to something that you know, I've been
33:24
I've been moving around and people have asked me stuff.
33:27
The question you just asked is is something special about
33:31
are we meaning makers? And now this is gonna take
33:34
me a little time to open up on this. But
33:36
but what's what's interesting, and again I don't have all
33:39
the answer this conversation, is that in the dreaming brain,
33:45
even though the logic and reason areas are dampened, specifically
33:49
the dorsal ladder prefrontal cortex, it's right behind our sort
33:52
of horns in the prefrontal cortex that pushed our brains forward.
33:56
There's another area called the medial prefrontal cortex that's preserved.
34:01
It stays throbbing, it's actually liberated a little bit. And
34:05
you know what that one does. It does something we
34:08
only figured out when we accidentally injure it or somebody
34:11
has a stroke in that area. It stitches the story
34:14
of our life together. Powerful, right, And so what's happening,
34:18
this is cool. What's happening is your emotions and your
34:23
vision centers and your movement centers are just firing up
34:26
stuff linked directly and directly to the stuff you feted
34:31
during the day, the stuff you life feted, right, your life,
34:34
your memory plus the imagination and then the medial prefrontal
34:38
cortex is they're putting a story to it. Dreams often,
34:42
not always are stories. They have a narrative component. They're emotional,
34:47
they're visual, they have a narrative component. Our brains want
34:51
to make a cohesive story. I know that for a
34:54
lot of reasons. And the dreaming brain is something that
34:58
also preserves that. Some have even extended that say like,
35:01
well maybe that's why we can you know, we get
35:04
movies that have jumps of ideas, people go from one
35:06
place to the other. Like our dreaming. The way we
35:09
dream prepares us for the way we appreciate art, right,
35:12
so we can let that go this way on this
35:15
on this side, some of my patients with certain complications
35:18
and certain tumors and different things, they'll wake up and
35:22
they won't feel certain parts of their body and they'll
35:25
develop something called neglect, or they'll develop something what it's
35:31
called confabulation. It's a fancy word for lying. When the
35:34
body signals are disconjugate, they don't make sense the brain.
35:40
The mind will make up a story to make it
35:42
all fit. And some patients have actually tried to throw
35:45
a leg. They don't feel off the bed and they say, oh,
35:47
that was a stranger. And so you see things with
35:50
the injured brain and the healing brain, that there's a
35:53
drive within us. Sometimes we'll even lie to ourselves and
35:57
others to create a consistent or a story that makes
36:01
sense to ourselves meaning. And I think if you look
36:04
at that at the brain level, and you look at
36:07
that at the dreaming level, what I try to tell
36:09
people my first book is look at that at the
36:11
life level. Like our maturation isn't done just with adolescents, right,
36:16
The work has to continue to cultivate your brain and
36:19
your mind and your life. So when you get through
36:21
a struggle, and you get through it, that prepares you
36:24
for the next one. If you're in a struggle now
36:27
that's just overwhelming, like something difficult so hard, don't worry
36:30
because you're cultivating that stress for the next one. And
36:33
I think all of those pieces not measurements, but my
36:35
opinion that we are meeting makers. We are storytellers in
36:40
the moments of our lives, in our dreaming brain, in
36:43
our life in general, and the area where stories and
36:47
emotions are the wildest with our dreams. And that's where
36:51
I think why we dream is something bigger than just
36:55
threat rehearsal. I think it's something powerful when we wake up.
36:57
And that clarity is because are some conscious has had
37:00
its run?
37:02
Speaker 2: Are people having when you look at the data, are
37:04
people having the same dream again and again and again
37:07
or are they having different dreams every night?
37:09
Speaker 1: Well that's a good question. So there are recurrent dreams.
37:12
It's a specific example. The only thing I can say
37:15
with certainty, these dreams come from our brain. We do
37:17
these exotics brain surgeries where we wake people up to
37:20
map the surface of their brain. You don't feel. You
37:23
wouldn't know if I touched your brain if the situation
37:25
ever rose, which you won't. But like the brain doesn't feel,
37:28
the brain feels through its nerves. So we can dissect
37:31
the brain in somebody while they're talking. The point there
37:35
is not to scare anybody. That's a therapeutic process. But
37:38
when we tickle and map the brain, they'll say, oh,
37:42
I remember this nightmare from when I was a kid.
37:44
You can activate a recurrent nightmare in a patient by
37:47
tickling the surface of their brain. So dreams come from
37:50
the brain. There are recurrent dreams. There are that's individual.
37:55
There are common dreams across people falling, being chased, teeth
37:59
falling out out there, universal dreams, So you start to
38:02
see all these patterns. A recurrent dream is a loop
38:05
of electricity in that part of your brain that pops
38:08
up again and again. It must be because if we
38:11
take a little faint pen and tickle it and you
38:13
have that dream again, that's built into the electrical flows
38:17
of your brain. So we have to step back a
38:19
little bit when you ask those questions, because there are
38:21
so many different dream types and dream experiences. I don't
38:24
want to give a single answer. But recurrent dreams are
38:27
loops of electricity that happen over and over again. We
38:29
can actually activate that, and then universal dreams, common dreams,
38:33
and rare dreams is how I conceptualize it.
38:35
Speaker 2: What does someone do if they have a recurrent dream
38:38
that they don't want to have any big question?
38:41
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's look at that. So now we got
38:44
the foundation waking brain, dreaming brain, hyper imaginative, hyper emotional.
38:51
You're cooking up, you're creating the events of your dreamscape.
38:54
And I found this to be very powerful that nightmare
38:58
since we imagined them. The treatment for nightmares is something
39:02
called imagery rehearsal therapy. Now I'm not a therapist. I
39:06
mean I take care of a lot of cancer patients.
39:08
I'm more than ten thousand in my life. So there's
39:13
a cultivation that I have benefited from them trusting me.
39:18
So I think I have some sense of understanding of
39:20
human nature. But therapy, when you try to help somebody
39:25
through conversation talk therapy, right, that's great. It seems to
39:29
be effective. That's out there. What they're finding is imagery
39:32
rehearsal therapy. It's a new thing where imagine what you
39:35
want to be, imagine something you don't want to have.
39:38
And when I read that, I was like, I don't
39:40
know if I can sink my teeth in that until
39:42
I started reading about nightmares and learning about nightmares and
39:45
across all different sciences that if you practice before you
39:49
go to bed, going back a bit to your saying
39:52
that we can actually feed our dreams, if you practice
39:55
a new script for the ending of your nightmares, you
39:58
can rescript nightmares through something called image re rehearsal therapy.
40:03
People can look it up and not every time, not
40:06
for everyone, but just the fact that nightmares can be
40:09
rescripted is powerful. That you think you're out of control,
40:14
but you can feed your dreams. You can steer your dreams,
40:17
and lucid dreaming as the prime example of that, and
40:20
and that therapy can guide you to a better conclusion
40:23
in your dream. I love that as a scientist because
40:26
it's the imagination network. You've imagined this nightmare, and it's
40:31
powerful to think now you can actually imagine a different
40:35
kind of ending for this nightmare. To me, that's all
40:37
scientifically consistent. And to me, that's why I think it's
40:42
powerful to look at dreaming as more magical, more fascinating
40:46
that it is being driven by certain brain processes. Right,
40:50
So you don't wake up and say, ah, that's that's
40:52
a glitch, that's static. No, there's something drove that. Learn
40:56
about the engine behind it, and then reflect about the
41:00
the meaning about it.
41:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I mean I can relate to that.
41:03
I feel like there have been parts of my life
41:05
where I've been able to code the emotion and feeling
41:11
and script that I wake up with by what I
41:14
put into the code before I go to bed. And
41:17
so at one point in my life when I was
41:19
trying to wake up early and I didn't enjoy it,
41:22
and my reaction to waking up early in the morning
41:25
would be, Oh, I'm so tired. I just want to
41:27
stay in bed. I just you know, and I wanted
41:30
to wake up early. I believe that was a worthy
41:33
pursuit and a habit to invest in, and so I
41:36
would before I went to bed, I would say to myself,
41:39
I am waking up energized, happy and healthy. And so
41:44
even that rescripting in the evening, I found I would
41:47
wake up and I would be saying that to myself
41:51
when I woke up, and there was this direct link
41:53
between a script that I didn't have it written in
41:56
the morning. I didn't have it there, but that repetition
41:58
would carry over in the morning. And I found whenever
42:01
I used it, it worked, and whenever I don't use it,
42:03
I can still wake up and feil love God, Why
42:05
am I waking up so early? And so I've sensed
42:08
moments of that, or I've had experiences of that, and
42:11
that coding or that imagery rehearsal therapy that you mentioned,
42:16
that would be I would love for our audience to
42:18
practice a community to try it out and see how
42:21
it shows up in your life, because I think what
42:23
we don't realize is you're subconsciously rehearsing anyway.
42:27
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, whatever you do, the work is going on,
42:30
you're doing it, work with it.
42:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, whatever you're watching, reading seeing that is imagery rehearsal.
42:35
It's just not therapy and it's not conscious. But we're
42:38
doing image rehearsal throughout the day and before we go
42:40
to bed.
42:40
Speaker 1: And it adds a big question here. So when you
42:43
when you say something like that, it ties into positive thinking,
42:47
wish fulfillment, all these these nebulous terms that I think
42:51
some people really embrace. Other people poo poo, and they
42:54
say that can't be true, or I say something in
42:55
the middle that through studying about dreams and dream I've
43:01
learned about, like what's the biology of how what you
43:04
just described about? I think about something before I go
43:06
to bed, and it helps me wake up and I'm
43:08
you know, I'm feeling it more. I'm thinking about it
43:10
more in the right way, Like that's just out there right,
43:13
that feels like there's like a kite flight and flying
43:15
above our head. What I'm trying to get people to
43:17
understand is the dreams, if they can be defined, are thoughts, emotions,
43:24
and activities that are actually happening at the brain level.
43:29
That's what's sparking all the electricity. If I'm running in
43:32
a dream, the motor strip that moves my legs, the
43:36
neurons they are firing, the signals just aren't getting through.
43:39
So then what that does is it opens up a
43:41
whole new world of athletes practicing the shot in their mind,
43:46
positive reinforcement, going to bed, and rescripting your dreams right
43:51
journaling Like people are like, okay, so there's brain activity
43:55
that's leading to this mind that I want to get
43:58
my mind to lean as certain way, and the brain
44:01
activities driving that. And so the people say, well, well,
44:04
how that happened? I would give you the example of placebo.
44:08
And so when you believe a medicine is going to
44:10
help you, even if I tell you, look, that's there's
44:12
nothing active in it. That's just like sugar. That's just
44:17
something that has no capacity to change by the pill
44:21
itself the physiology of your body. But belief is enough
44:26
to make people feel less pain. And I can give
44:29
you a scientific explanation about how that happens. Belief you're
44:33
armed with neurotransmitters. That electricity that we're measuring the chemicals
44:38
that are floating around. Think of the brain as like
44:40
one hundred billion microscopic jellyfish, and is there's like electric
44:44
storms and waves of neurotransmitters flying around in there. When
44:48
you believe the pharmacy of your mind is actually releasing
44:52
chemicals and things that generates different electricity, that alleviates pain,
44:57
that prepares your brain and mind for rescripting the nightmare,
45:01
that makes positive, gives you the scientific basis possibly for
45:05
positive reinforcement. Positive relationships like these are actually not just emotions,
45:11
but they're working at the level of the brain. That's powerful.
45:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I love that. I love that description. And
45:18
as you were saying that, I was thinking about this.
45:22
It's all coming back to an intentionality of programming, a
45:27
like what I'm hearing from you is just this idea
45:29
of get active, get involved, be conscious, be aware. I
45:35
was thinking about I remember during the pandemic, I probably
45:39
hadn't up until the pandemic, I probably hadn't watched TV
45:44
or played video games for like ten years, like consistently
45:47
at all. And I think the pandemic kind of you know,
45:51
had had time and we were indoors and all the
45:53
rest of it, and so I started watching TV. I
45:55
remember one of the shows I was watching, which I
45:57
really enjoyed watching, was Ozark, and I can I remember
46:01
watching Ozark every day for thirty days in a row,
46:03
and it's not even the scariest show. And while I
46:06
was watching, I probably didn't feel anything. And somehow I
46:09
felt that I had dream every night that my house
46:11
was being broken into like that possible. Yeah, it was
46:14
an experience that I was having, And I connected the
46:16
two because it's someone who didn't have nightmares as an
46:19
adult and as someone who didn't watch that much TV.
46:23
Those are the only two changes that I'd at least
46:25
know is.
46:26
Speaker 1: Or if we get back to that, it's symbolic. Maybe
46:29
is the stress of the pandemic. I mean, so it's
46:32
never going to be pinned down exactly, But you're right.
46:36
The paying attention to the patterns of your dreams more
46:40
than just a dream unless it's hyper emotional. But the
46:43
pattern of dreams, I think is an important thing to do.
46:47
And how does our waking life feed our our dream life.
46:50
What I would tell you is when color television arrived,
46:53
the magazines the dream reports show a bump in people
46:57
having color color dreams. There are more black and white
47:01
dreams when TV was black white and I was like, wait,
47:03
but the world is in color. And what I'm saying
47:06
to you is that's why this topic is so fresh
47:08
because it doesn't all make sense. The science gives some insight,
47:12
and the exploration reveals there's so many things we don't understand.
47:15
The take home is it's not a passive process. It's
47:20
not something that is coming from the gods or omens.
47:25
It's your brain giving you thoughts, emotions, dreams, and potentially
47:30
insights that you can't have access to with your waking brain.
47:34
And to me, that's a special portal. And how people
47:37
cultivate that, I think it's up to them. I'm here
47:40
to let people know that there's a rigorous science behind
47:43
the brain biology, brain chemistry, brain electricity that drives dreaming.
47:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that bump in color television. I can't
47:50
imagine when we have enoupdated to look at the social
47:52
media bump, right, Because to me, it's bizarre to feel
47:56
that I'm exposed you to show social media pornography. Being
48:02
on the online world doesn't lead to specific or certain dreams.
48:06
Speaker 1: Especially with the hours that people are putting it in, right, Yeah, exactly,
48:08
so that would be the next wave. And my hope
48:11
is that somebody listening to this, you know, as I mentioned,
48:14
I'm fifty one, I've got three sons eighteen nineteen twenty
48:17
two in college. Like, my hope is somebody walks away
48:19
and says, oh wait, some of the stuff about dreams
48:22
can be explained by the brain. Because imagine in twenty
48:25
thirty years, how much more data will have through people
48:29
with online dream banks, and how much more will know
48:31
about neuroscience. Imagine the connections that somebody's sitting here playing
48:36
different roles than us can make. And so it's more
48:39
of a it's an inception. It's I want people to
48:41
be ignited that dreams can some parts of dreams can
48:46
be made sense of.
48:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to dive back into nightmares because as
48:50
a child, I grew up having a lot of nightmares.
48:52
I don't I remember one of them very vividly, even
48:57
till today. I don't dream about it anymore, but I
48:59
remember waking up in the middle of the night feeling horrified.
49:02
And you talk about in the book how children have
49:03
the most nightmares, Like it's common children have five times
49:06
as many nightmares as adults. You say, even the gentlest
49:10
childhood is no protection against nightmares. And I think that's
49:13
really unnerving for parents when their kids are having nightmares.
49:17
I have friends who have kids who will tell me like,
49:19
oh God, she just doesn't sleep, she has nightmares, and
49:22
it's like you're trying to figure it out. And I mean,
49:24
you're a father, so it's interesting to hear how you
49:27
may have felt about that. I'm sure a lot of
49:29
us listening right now are thinking, God, I definitely had
49:31
nightmares as a kid. When you're having that as a kid,
49:34
it can be so unnerving, It can be so difficult,
49:37
even more than as an adult, because you really feel powerless.
49:41
What have been some Have there been any therapies or
49:44
remedies that have helped? But then you go on to
49:46
say that nightmares are needed, So walk me through there.
49:50
Speaker 1: All right. So when I was thinking about this book,
49:52
I was rolling around in La going to different spots
49:55
and sort of just bouncing around people, you know, regular
49:57
people at Dodger Stadium, and often I got the question, like,
50:00
all right, you're going to talk about dreams and dreaming.
50:03
You need to have a new take on it. But
50:05
clearly nightmares can't be good for you, right, there's no
50:07
use for nightmares. And I thought I got to take
50:09
this one head on in chapter two. And so when
50:11
I look at that, I would ask people to think
50:13
of nightmares based on age, and we do that in
50:17
the hospital and medicine and surgery and science where they're
50:20
sort of age related. Pediatric and adult is what I
50:22
would say. We've talked about adults, flashbacks, nightmares. If they arrived,
50:25
pay attention to them. They could be a warning flair
50:28
for some mental health issues. You get them more in depression.
50:31
You know, we've left that. How to explain nightmares and
50:34
kids is an exploration, it's a conversation. I think it's fresh,
50:39
and I looked at a bunch of pieces that helped
50:42
me sort of come up with an idea, a story,
50:45
if you will. So if you look at the first
50:48
thing about nightmares that struck me is you have to say, hey, Johnny,
50:53
that was only a nightmare. It's only with nightmares that
50:58
we tell our kids that's only a nightmare. So as
51:01
a conversation, does that mean Johnny was blurring dreaming brain
51:07
thoughts and waking brain thoughts until that moment? So that's
51:10
that's a power. I'm not saying I have the answer.
51:12
I'm just I'm leaving that with your audience. This one.
51:15
Nightmares do that. By definition, nightmares wake you up and
51:18
they see your memory. Okay, just like our kids learn
51:23
to walk and talk, our mind is being cultivated. So
51:26
they have these families that signed all the kids up
51:28
to be woken up and talk about their dreams for
51:30
like twenty years in a row. They're called longitudinal kids.
51:33
When they start talking, their dreams are like a table,
51:36
you know, a sweater. Then they get more imaginative, and
51:40
what happens is five six' seven nightmares. Arrive what else is.
51:46
Arriving they're developing visuospatial, skills and they're also developing this
51:52
thing called theory of. Mind people can look up these
51:53
terms that children at some point developed the ability to
51:59
look at somebody and say that, SMILE i don't think
52:03
they mean, well mind reading reading the other person's, intention.
52:07
Right that arrives theory of mind at the same time as.
52:11
Nightmares so my biggest way to conceptualize that is nightmares
52:17
arrive in children to help them develop a sense of
52:20
self versus other help them not a sense of, identity
52:23
but that my thoughts and my experiences are. Mine my
52:27
waking life and dream life are, separate and THAT i
52:31
need to think of myself as different from my uncles
52:33
and aunts and other people around. Me AND i think
52:36
that's the function of nightmares and. Children you may have
52:40
had them a, lot but they arrive and then very
52:43
few of them lead to nightmare, disorder like it doesn't
52:45
ruin there the next. Day so it's almost sort of
52:48
like whereas an, adults nightmare disorder means the residue is
52:51
lingering with. You so when you look at the, patterns
52:54
children learn to, work will, walk and. Talk nightmares arrive
52:57
around four or five six and most of them go. Away
53:00
erotic dreams around like, eleven twelve thirteen and persist in some.
53:02
Way adolescents arise around fifteen. Sixteen but these are cognitive.
53:07
Changes the brain looks about the. Same it's not like
53:10
a new low pops. Up these are cognitive changes that are.
53:13
Happening SO i think nightmares cultivate the mind and. Children
53:17
they arrive and. Fade things that happen that universally and
53:21
science aren't. Accidental and it's the it's the dream we've
53:24
always had that all of us have had as a.
53:26
Speaker 2: Nightmare, yeah that's super fascinating to, me super.
53:30
Speaker 1: Fascinating it's an.
53:33
Speaker 2: Exploration, yeah and it's it is such a it's so
53:36
interesting how we're so addicted to certainty and. Conclusiveness, yeah
53:43
it's kind of.
53:44
Speaker 1: Stifling, yeah it's very rigidity to, it, Right, yeah do,
53:47
this don't do, this this will save. You this won't
53:49
say like. No but the dreaming process leaves it, open, like,
53:52
yeah we're just beginning to understand it's. Personal keep, digging keep,
53:57
exploring fail. BETTER i think that's what that all shows.
54:00
Speaker 2: Us WHY i feel like what the conversation we're having
54:04
exposes a weakness that we have across so many areas
54:08
of our, life which is that we're uncomfortable with. Uncertainty,
54:11
yeah and we constantly feel discomfort when we can't. Control
54:17
AND i think dreams are like the ultimate version of.
54:21
Speaker 1: That dreams are, like, hey just to remind you you need. Uncertainty, yeah,
54:24
yeah let me dig into that a little. BIT i
54:26
have some ideas about, That like when we fall asleep and,
54:30
dream the executive networks. Dampen let me reverse a. Bit
54:35
most of the day is something we call task. On
54:37
it's outward and the brain the executive. Network reason logic
54:41
is paying. Attention of course food, scarcity, Right willie, mammits
54:45
it makes sense those who are best at paying attention,
54:48
outward navigating the world and using as little amount of
54:52
calories and brain. Energy that seems like that would be
54:54
a natural. Adaptation, well WHAT i would tell people, is
54:58
when we're not tasked, on the brain doesn't rev down
55:02
like your computer like goes and then you have to
55:04
hit the keyboard to pop it. Up, no it creates
55:06
a mental life of its, own, right that's the imagination.
55:10
Network so during the day we're mostly executive network, outward
55:15
but if there's nothing to do with mind wandering or
55:17
things are, safe we turn back into our own. Head
55:20
dreaming is the example of, that but just suffused with like.
55:25
Uncertainty and so the question becomes the day is so
55:29
focused on, thinking. Calculating adrenaline is. Up adrenaline finds the
55:35
signal in the. Noise they've done studies where they change,
55:39
that and then the dreaming brain is kind of the.
55:42
Opposite adrenaline comes. Down you're looking for looser, patterns divergent.
55:47
Thinking designing a, car not fixing an. Engine it to,
55:51
me to, me the uncertainty that the dreaming brain goes.
55:57
Through that's our genius built. In we Don't we actually
56:01
don't want to become too rigid in our. Habits it
56:04
might be okay today going on the, freeware going on the,
56:07
tube as we, mentioned but that's not the process your
56:10
brain needs to be in to be the most adaptive for,
56:13
heartache for falling in, love for a, kid getting, sick
56:16
for the uncertainty the environment will give, us and the
56:20
uncertainty we almost want to engage in love affairs and.
56:23
ADVENTURES i think that's the. Balance get things, Done try
56:28
not to be too, rigid try to be open minded
56:31
and appreciate that your dreaming brain is going to take
56:33
you there whether you want it or. Not that's the
56:35
love story of uncertainty and.
56:37
Speaker 2: Creativity, yeah and It's i'm gonna flip fluff because we
56:40
talked about uncertainty and. Creativity BUT i want to go
56:44
into lucid dreaming and this idea of wanting some control
56:48
in the. Uncertainty but before we get, THERE i wanted
56:52
to go back to sleep exit BECAUSE i don't think
56:54
we talked about sleep, entry but we didn't finish sleep.
56:56
Speaker 1: Exit and that works because sleep, exit that dampened executive,
57:01
network that damp in, adrenaline that looks for the signal
57:04
and noise it seems to come back. On and if
57:09
an alarm goes, off we know it comes back. On
57:11
you could be dreaming and. Sleeping you smell. Smoke the
57:13
executive network is the. Boss it will pop back on and.
57:17
Dominate and so if you do grab your phone in
57:20
the morning and check emails too quickly or jump On instagram,
57:24
like your brain will go to that forward task on
57:27
feature and the residue or the lingering feelings of your
57:32
dream life will necessarily be put in the. Backseat and
57:35
so if you do want to remember your dreams more
57:38
as you wake, up if you have the luxury of
57:40
a bed and time and not an, alarm that's a
57:43
critical window sleep exit to sort of hold onto your
57:47
dream thoughts and your dream. Experiences it's an imperfect, process
57:51
BUT i can tell you people who have, tried they
57:53
get better at. It and, again it's, free it's, accessible
57:57
it's from your own. BRAIN i think it's one of those.
57:59
Habits it's That i've incorporated my life for the last five,
58:02
ten five ten. YEARS i get what, Exactly so WHAT
58:04
i do is IF i have the, luxury BECAUSE i
58:06
do NOW i didn't for a long. TIME i mean
58:09
the phone calls and pages are going off in the
58:11
middle of the. Night and now it's more like IF
58:13
i wake up in the, MORNING i try to linger
58:16
AND i try not to. Move and there's different types
58:18
of yoga. There people have been talking about a lot
58:20
of stuff like this for centuries and, millennia And i'm
58:23
just adding some scientific pieces that support. It but That
58:26
i'm trying to not have my executive network kick. In
58:30
i'll keep my eyes. Closed i'll run through some, thoughts
58:32
so that's, interesting hold none that WHICHHOULD i do? That
58:34
LIKE i have my sleep exit thinking or, moments if you.
58:40
Will and Then i'll reach over And i'll go to
58:42
my notes. App it's write on the home screen And
58:45
i'll write a few things. Down WHEN i have, IDEAS i,
58:49
mean i'd say a great majority have come from. Them
58:51
they're almost all bad, ideas but that is the idea.
58:53
Generator If i've had a good, idea it's been during that.
58:56
Time it's. Rarely it's, rarely like at two o'clock on
58:59
a t rible. Espresso. Right that's important because we have
59:02
to get things. Done but the dreaming, process sleep entries
59:05
we talked, about and sleep EXIT i think are interesting
59:08
portals where there are sort of blurry liminal states that
59:11
we have a different type of thinking without it being
59:13
just like wildly. Psychedelic you, know it's, measured but it's
59:17
a fresh. Perspective it's a different take on the things
59:20
that are important in your life at that.
59:22
Speaker 2: Moment, YEAH i, mean even the language of sleep entry
59:25
and sleep exit is so.
59:26
Speaker 1: Powerful WELL i got to you, know but this calls
59:28
hypnogogic and. Hypnopopic so the first Thing i'm out there is,
59:31
like stop using these. Words that, suck, right like.
59:34
Speaker 2: A Terrible, Yeah i'm so. Glad so, yeah even hearing you,
59:38
Say I've i've never heard the word sleep entry and
59:41
sleep exit. Before, yes really like that language BECAUSE i
59:45
think we don't think about it like. That and it's
59:47
so funny how we we ender, buildings we leave, buildings
59:51
we enter, spaces we leave, spaces and sleep is kind
59:55
of like. That and we are talking about evening routines
59:57
and morning, routines but this resumor is a bit more
1:00:01
intimate to both sides of.
1:00:03
Speaker 1: That it's the essential routine now just sleep entry and sleep.
1:00:07
Exit WHAT i love about it is THAT i can
1:00:11
put stickers on your scalp our scalps and record the
1:00:14
electricity and be, like, look the waves. Change you are,
1:00:19
measurably not just by report, like, Hey i'm feeling. DIFFERENT
1:00:22
i get. THAT i trust that that's. Individual but the
1:00:25
brain waves during sleep entry and sleep exit have a.
1:00:32
Pattern they overlap in a way that never happens while
1:00:36
you're awake or while you're. Dreaming. Right so that's WHY
1:00:40
i want people to walk away with, like it's not
1:00:42
just his. Thing he's looking at the fact that he
1:00:44
can measure that this is a different space right.
1:00:46
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, Yeah now.
1:00:47
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it's powerful or. Not that's for you
1:00:49
to figure. Out but we can measure sleep entry and
1:00:52
sleep exit and it looks different on a twenty four
1:00:54
cycle of brain. Waves and how long does it lost
1:00:56
was different for different, people and people seem to cultivate.
1:00:58
It But Solvador dalis written about it, said you, know
1:01:01
anywhere from two to twelve, minutes.
1:01:03
Speaker 2: That's how long you.
1:01:04
Speaker 1: Have, yeah but it's it's, personal but it's real as
1:01:08
for everybody to figure out for, themselves you.
1:01:10
Speaker 2: Know BUT i like the two to twelve. Minutes it
1:01:12
gives us a gauge sure as to how long do
1:01:15
you not let your executive brain turn on in the.
1:01:18
Speaker 1: Morning and because there's, science there's tech companies coming up
1:01:20
with a little, uh you, know your iPhone Or apple
1:01:23
watch is tracking your stages of sleep and when people
1:01:26
are in that sleep, entry it'll buzz them to wake
1:01:28
up Like dolly, tried and they'll and that that's their
1:01:31
way of write down what you're thinking now as sort
1:01:35
of the tech approach to. Creativity it's, interesting, Right how DOES.
1:01:38
Speaker 2: I mean talking about the tech approach? Again another tangent
1:01:41
because it is a Paspect i'm, like it's completely obliterated
1:01:44
any form of, structure but it's it's. Great where do
1:01:48
you see the cross section OF ai and? Dreams? Like
1:01:50
where can it be? Useful where will it be helpful with?
1:01:54
This where will it? Not will it help us ask better?
1:01:58
Questions is it going to help us take better? Notes
1:02:01
is again to help?
1:02:02
Speaker 1: US i don't. Know i'm not a computer, scientist But
1:02:05
i'll tell you two. Things they're making programs that add
1:02:07
noise because sometimes the patterns and algorithms of computers become
1:02:11
so rigid like our daily thinking that they can't handle
1:02:14
the insertion of new data and that sort of mirrors
1:02:17
what's going on like that's it's called. Overfitted the computer
1:02:21
process and algorithm design is too, tight too, efficient and
1:02:25
that learning from, dreaming they find that the computer system
1:02:29
is more adaptive when they add in. Noise where artificial
1:02:33
intelligence fits, In i'm not, sure but tech is all over.
1:02:36
It they're tracking the data from smartphones and certain people you're,
1:02:40
volunteering they'll play certain songs and you'll have people watch
1:02:44
commercials and see if they dream about it more and
1:02:46
then buy that product. More like that space is, here
1:02:49
so if somebody's, listening like that's a massive. Space AND
1:02:52
i just THINK i would remind people that we're not
1:02:54
completely shut off when we. Dream we wake up to
1:02:56
alarms and, smoke and that we should be careful about
1:03:00
in that, vulnerable, precious, remarkable that unique state that somebody's
1:03:06
not just taking marketing advantage of. It AND i think
1:03:08
that's WHERE ai will extract, data figure out what's the right,
1:03:12
buzz the right. Sound and just to riff on this
1:03:14
a little, bit like one hundred years, ago they were
1:03:16
like people are, sleeping they put their hand in like
1:03:18
a bucket of, water see if they had more dreams about.
1:03:21
Water in the modern, version they're going to be taking
1:03:23
your data and trying to fine tune like the, song
1:03:27
the scent and the picture to, put you, know to
1:03:29
throw at you to try to get you to buy.
1:03:30
Stuff So i'm a bit like dystopian about, that but
1:03:34
BECAUSE i don't want you, Know i'm, private especially in
1:03:37
my dream.
1:03:37
Speaker 2: Life, yeah, absolutely, no IT'S i, MEAN i feel like
1:03:40
some of my favorite movies have been about. Dreams you
1:03:42
Mentioned inception EVEN i mean this isn't about, dreams but
1:03:46
still in that in that space Of Vanilla, Sky, yeah
1:03:49
With Tom cruise And Cameron. DearS that, movie if you're
1:03:52
not seeing it's it's probably one of my. Favorites and
1:03:54
just how that memory bank or some sort of like
1:03:57
subconscious bank is created and, how and it's fascinating thinking about.
1:04:02
That there's a few more things roll THAT i want
1:04:04
to go over with you from the, book WHICH i
1:04:06
think are so interesting for. PEOPLE i want to talk
1:04:09
to you about before we get Into Lucid. DREAMING i
1:04:10
want to talk to you a bit about how dreams
1:04:12
can predict the. Future AND i think a lot of
1:04:15
people worry that their, dreams their thoughts can create reality subconsciously.
1:04:23
Somewhere we feel that LIKE i know people who have,
1:04:26
illnesses or like OH i manifested, this LIKE i made this,
1:04:28
happen or LIKE i have a disease and oh my,
1:04:31
GOD i saw this, coming or you know that kind of.
1:04:33
Feeling warning Dream, yeah warning, Dreams and that almost feels
1:04:37
a bit worrying as, well because often when you have that,
1:04:40
warning you, know constantly replaying and thinking about it while
1:04:44
you're awake and while you're. Asleep can dreams predict the,
1:04:48
future especially when it comes to.
1:04:49
Speaker 1: Health in one specific, way dreams can absolutely predict the
1:04:54
future of your, health and we'll get into. That That's,
1:04:56
parkinson's but in general for, cancer for other, diseases it's
1:05:01
hard to tease out whether my patients had the diagnosis
1:05:06
and then sort of reverse, thought LIKE i THINK i
1:05:08
had a dream about. That i'm not judging, Them i'm
1:05:11
just totally open. Minded BUT i can't grip the data on.
1:05:14
That but if you do have a dream about, disease
1:05:19
statistically you're not more likely to have that. Disease they've
1:05:22
been looking at these, surveys so it might just reveal
1:05:25
a certain anxiety you're. Having again. Symbolic you might be
1:05:29
struggling with something and then have a disease based. Dream
1:05:33
so as long as we remember that most of the
1:05:36
time they're symbolic and not, LITERAL i think that's. Important
1:05:41
there are plenty of reports and surveys where breast cancer
1:05:46
patients are, said, LIKE i had a, DREAM i felt
1:05:47
the lump in these sort of. THINGS i respect, THAT
1:05:50
i respect their whole. Journey SO i want to put
1:05:52
that out. There the one specific way that dreams can
1:05:55
predict the. FUTURE i need to unpack this one for
1:05:58
a little bit because this was mind blowing WHEN i
1:06:00
WHEN i learned about. It there's something called rem behavior,
1:06:03
disorder Which i'm relabeling dream and act my. Behavior, yeah my,
1:06:08
world thank, You, yeah thank, you my. World the words
1:06:11
are they, confuse you, know dream and act my. Behavior
1:06:16
middle aged men fifties acting out their, dream usually protecting
1:06:21
their bed. Partner they come, in the bed partners maybe
1:06:26
has an. Injury those men ninety four percent of the,
1:06:31
time and that's essentially in, medicine it's. Universal fifteen years
1:06:35
later will Develop PARKINSON'S i think you. Know so that
1:06:40
is the one example and it's if it's the only
1:06:43
example for every neuroscientists out, there every scientist out, there
1:06:47
hear me with this that the first warning flare of
1:06:51
the brain's deterioration With parkinson's is a change in dreams
1:06:56
fifteen years. Ago i'll just leave it at. That for
1:06:59
all the rigs people out there, saying, hey they're talking
1:07:01
about stuff Like i'm questioning whether you know the science
1:07:04
can really show. This look up rem behavior disorder cap
1:07:07
all caps ram behavior, disorder WHICH i call dream and acta.
1:07:11
Behavior it's In Scientific. American this isn't like one Paper
1:07:13
i'm digging, up like this is. Thing this is stuff
1:07:16
that's coming. Out behavior disorder Predicts parkinson's fifteen years. Later
1:07:23
and WHAT i would say to the researchers out there
1:07:25
is is that an opportunity for us to start with medicine.
1:07:28
EARLIER i, mean it just says so. Much but outside
1:07:31
of that one and all you need is one unicorn
1:07:33
for unicorns to be. REAL i haven't found any evidence
1:07:36
that dreams predict the. FUTURE i, mean they definitely don't
1:07:39
give you lottery numbers and stuff like, that but at
1:07:41
a more grounded, level they don't actually predict what's going
1:07:45
to happen to, you but what happens to you maybe
1:07:49
because of what the dream is symbolically mentioning you're going
1:07:52
through a difficult, time or you lose your, job and
1:07:54
you have a dream about losing your. Job SO i
1:07:56
can see where those connections would, form JUST i just
1:07:59
don't have So i'll leave it as a.
1:08:01
Speaker 2: Maybe it's so interesting how, again it goes back to
1:08:04
this idea of when you get a diagnosis or something,
1:08:08
happens you then go back to finding that point like
1:08:10
it's almost like you've been dating someone and you knew
1:08:14
they were, wrong and then when they break up with,
1:08:16
you LIKE i knew, it.
1:08:17
Speaker 1: You go and you replay it.
1:08:18
Speaker 2: All, yeah, yeah you replaying, it like and then you
1:08:20
now you see all the red flags and again there's
1:08:22
nothing wrong with, It but it's that feeling OF i
1:08:25
remember AND i, know but we're not always good at
1:08:29
trusting our gut in that, moment you know What i'm, Saying,
1:08:32
like there's there's not a feeling of it's almost like,
1:08:36
again And i'm not discounting anyone's, experience BUT i find
1:08:39
EVEN i do it where you're living your life and
1:08:42
then something, happens and you, GO i knew. IT i knew.
1:08:44
It there was a part of you that sensed.
1:08:46
Speaker 1: IT i call that hunch and. Instinct, yeah AND i
1:08:50
think we we connect IF i, may, yeah please in
1:08:53
the moment as we navigate, uncertainty and because we're not
1:08:57
just reflexive, creatures, right there's this thing called counterfactual, thinking
1:09:01
LIKE i can run out if this, happens then THAT
1:09:04
i can play scenarios out and you know what does
1:09:06
That the imagination, network the same thing that's liberating and.
1:09:09
Dreaming we create a mental workspace what if this, Happens
1:09:12
what if this, Happens what if this doesn't? Happen as
1:09:14
we navigate the. Uncertainty so it's not just you, know
1:09:17
pull back from a hot frying pan or you, know
1:09:19
pull back from a scorching rock if you're a. Lizard,
1:09:22
right those are. Reflexes we have the ability to. Choose
1:09:25
AND i think when you look at what you're saying
1:09:27
about hunch and instinct and how we kind of knew
1:09:31
something and we should have maybe paid more attention to,
1:09:33
IT i think that for me that's in the rear
1:09:36
view when you're in the moment and things are imperfect
1:09:40
as they often. ARE i believe that you are trying
1:09:45
to create the outcome out of that imperfect, situation and
1:09:48
when it doesn't, arise or it doesn't arrive for, you
1:09:50
so we do look back and, say, hey you, know
1:09:53
maybe we should have done things. Differently that is the
1:09:56
cost of the freedom of choice that we have right
1:10:01
now what to, do whether to grab this glass or.
1:10:03
Not and just like heartache is the cost of exposing
1:10:06
yourself to falling in, love you, Know And i'm familiar with,
1:10:09
That SO i THINK i think people should look at
1:10:12
that as, like that's that's what makes life. Exciting.
1:10:15
Speaker 2: Yeah have you seen any connection between alcohol and?
1:10:18
Speaker 1: Dreams, well it's a big. Question so this is a
1:10:20
notable thing THAT i left out of the. BOOK i
1:10:23
have patients waking up from. Anesthesia i'm floating above disassociative
1:10:26
states like psychedelic, experiences ambient, dreams Fent noel. Dreams alcohol suppresses.
1:10:32
Dreams people who smoke weed marijuana users in the, morning
1:10:35
they don't remember their. Dreams, WELL i couldn't find. It
1:10:38
it definitely affects. Dreaming to, me that says two. Things
1:10:42
dreams are coming from the. Brain you take, drugs and
1:10:44
your dreams. Change they're. Biological and the second thing IS
1:10:48
i couldn't find a way to say antidepressants make this
1:10:51
change your. Dreams you, know coke and meth makes this,
1:10:55
change and alcohol and alcohol IF i just couldn't find
1:10:58
something to wrap it. Arout, Yeah AND i tried BECAUSE
1:11:01
i was, like that's going to be one of the,
1:11:02
chapters AND i JUST i didn't find a clear link
1:11:07
except for. One galantamine is this drug we give patients with.
1:11:10
Dementia it works on a seat of. Coline it's one
1:11:13
of the less famous. Neurotransferers we have a, lot they
1:11:15
do a. Lot it's not dopamine does. This it's not
1:11:17
that linear as we're seeing now and liberating people. Now is.
1:11:23
Galantamine and so those people they take it and they're,
1:11:26
like oh my, Gosh i'm becoming. Aware i'm dreaming While i'm.
1:11:29
Dreaming that's lucid. Dreaming you double that, dose they have
1:11:34
more lucid. Dreaming and the world of science that dose
1:11:38
dependent escalation is as close as you get to you,
1:11:40
know cause and. Effect so drugs definitely affect the. BRAIN
1:11:45
i just couldn't put them Into knie categories because people
1:11:47
are into depressants at this type of, dream people are
1:11:49
on to cope the next day they had a different
1:11:51
type of. Dream so that is a mixed, bag and
1:11:54
alcohol is part of. That it's you, know it's a.
1:11:56
Speaker 2: Chemical do you think we'll ever get closer to understanding
1:11:58
the links more deeply as the memory banks dream?
1:12:02
Speaker 1: BANKS i, Hope, SO i. Hope so WHEN i think
1:12:04
that's an interesting, question the things That i'm looking at
1:12:08
are what we're available to me, everywhere From aristotle a
1:12:10
few thousand years ago to stuff happening now to questionnaires
1:12:14
from twenty years. Ago, it's of course necessarily it's, imperfect
1:12:18
BUT i think as people are more, honest and that's
1:12:21
the liberated to fill the dream banks in with this,
1:12:25
stuff somebody after me is going to take that and, say,
1:12:28
OOH i think alcohol does this and antidepressants do. THIS
1:12:33
i think IT'S i think it's quite. Possible but just as,
1:12:36
like just to let everybody, Know i'm working with what's
1:12:38
out there and trying to connect the dots between the
1:12:41
gaps of like from you, know philosophy to brain science to,
1:12:46
YouTube you, know ambient, Dreams Like i'm really trying to
1:12:49
bring it together from every corner THAT i, could you,
1:12:51
know look at.
1:12:52
Speaker 2: How much do we dream in events in reality versus
1:12:58
completely fantasy based, Events like how much of our dreams are?
1:13:03
Replaying like you were saying that the, veterans for, example
1:13:06
they dream about the. War it's like a real event
1:13:09
that happened in their life.
1:13:10
Speaker 1: There so that's a. Flashback, yeah it's a.
1:13:12
Speaker 2: Flashback, Yeah but when they.
1:13:14
Speaker 1: Dream about it when they're getting, divorced that's a symbolic
1:13:16
dream representing.
1:13:18
Speaker 2: Something what's going to breakdown of dreams of flashbacks versus?
1:13:22
Speaker 1: FANTASY i THINK ptsd flashbacks are clearly replay of a
1:13:29
bad experience in your, dreamscape the imaginative component of. Dreams
1:13:35
when you look at these, surveys it's a complete mixed.
1:13:39
Bag but WHAT i will tell you is That i'm
1:13:42
trying to just add the information here to your, question
1:13:44
which is a good. One but how much of our
1:13:48
dream life is a replay versus just completely cooked up
1:13:52
by the imagination? NETWORK i get that that's a good.
1:13:54
Question and WHAT i would say, is in, flashbacks it's a.
1:13:58
Replay if you're if your dream is, falling that's not
1:14:06
a replay but indicative of. Something and then there's most
1:14:09
stuff is in. Between it's highly, visual highly, creative jumping
1:14:13
from social situations to visual. Situation, uh you, know you're
1:14:17
on the top of a, building you're an awkward, situation
1:14:19
you're finding with. Something there are these, jumps a little
1:14:21
bit movie, like but it's not a. Hallucination and, this
1:14:26
this is the BEST i BECAUSE i wanted to be
1:14:28
able to answer this question like two years ago WHEN
1:14:30
i was thinking of, this and this is with a
1:14:31
gem THAT i. Found when you, hallucinate just bear with.
1:14:35
Me it's a purple elephant in this. Room the the
1:14:40
the landscape is, reality the element is inserted in. It in,
1:14:46
dreaming the whole thing is. Imagined and SO i would
1:14:50
say the entire process of dreaming leans heavily. Imaginative that's
1:14:55
the best to, ANSWER i.
1:14:56
Speaker 2: Can, yeah that's, Good, Onswer, Yeah, no it's it's interesting
1:14:59
to me BECAUSE i, YEAH i always, wonder Like i'm,
1:15:02
like we always. Do we have a dream in a
1:15:05
space we've been in and seen in.
1:15:07
Speaker 1: And even all of, IT i think all of. IT
1:15:09
i mean that's so you have memory of places you've
1:15:12
been and then you can, imagine and dreaming has access
1:15:16
to both of that and IF i may the dreaming,
1:15:19
memory like you go, up you get up.
1:15:22
Speaker 2: To go to the.
1:15:22
Speaker 1: Bathroom sometimes you can slip back in or, dream so
1:15:25
it's not. Random and SO i always wonder is they're
1:15:28
like access to memory our dreaming mind can have that
1:15:32
are waking mind does not have access To like people
1:15:37
with this is, fascinating like this a little bit heavier
1:15:40
on the size, Part like people who have memory, issues
1:15:43
like they've had a trauma and they can't remember if
1:15:46
they played tetris or a video. Game they'll see pictures
1:15:50
of it in their dreams but can't tell you about
1:15:53
it when you ask them during the, DAY i, said,
1:15:55
NO i never played A tetris, game BUT i had
1:15:56
one in my. Dream and they're basically playing Their tetris
1:16:00
being played in front of. Them so there's something going
1:16:02
on where the dreaming mind has a memory. SYSTEM i
1:16:05
THINK i don't have evidence for, this but there are
1:16:08
little dots like, that like slipping back into a, dream
1:16:10
getting up to go to the, bathroom people with amnesia
1:16:13
being able to feed their. DREAMS i can't identify like
1:16:17
on a map or you, know a, dissection but there's
1:16:21
something unique going on with a dreaming. Memory and dreaming.
1:16:24
Mind and that's why it's so inspiring for. Me, like you,
1:16:28
KNOW i you, KNOW i use drills and take off
1:16:31
pieces of skull AND i dissect with. Them i'm, Like
1:16:34
i'm not that, guy, Right most people would, THINK i
1:16:36
think that's why it's, powerful like brain surgeons talking about
1:16:39
the dreaming. Mind but that's what it's done for. Me
1:16:42
my man is like fifty one years in ten thousand
1:16:47
patients operate in like ten, countries, suns you, know wild, love, affair,
1:16:55
heartbreak all of, it intense. Emotions relationship with my partner
1:16:59
for thirty is like all of. It and you start
1:17:02
to think LIKE i Think i'm getting a, sense and
1:17:05
then you then putting this book. Together it's it's almost
1:17:08
like a. Rebirth there's too much of a. Statement but, like,
1:17:10
oh wait a, second there's a dreaming mind memory. System
1:17:13
wait a, Second. Parkinson's the first flare is a change
1:17:17
in dreaming. Pattern so just WHEN i, thought, like you,
1:17:20
KNOW i Think i'm figuring this, out you, Know i'm
1:17:24
excited to have have the lens with WHICH i approached
1:17:29
the world. Reset and that's what dreaming has done for.
1:17:31
Speaker 2: Me let's talk about lucid. Dreaming we've been talking. About
1:17:35
we've been kind of like peppering it in the whole.
1:17:37
Time first of, all let's just. Define and a lot
1:17:39
of the QUESTIONS i ask are very, Simplified and the
1:17:43
reason for that is BECAUSE i think a lot of
1:17:45
these terms ideas are out there and most people don't even.
1:17:48
Know AND i, think as you're simplifying language from a
1:17:50
very scientific point of, view my goal is to try
1:17:53
and simplify topics that we all hear. About and you
1:17:56
might even here around a conversation and you're sitting there,
1:17:58
GOING i don't even know what that. Means, YEAH i
1:17:59
don't know if anyone knows what that, means but we're
1:18:01
all pretending to. Know so it's, like what is lucid?
1:18:03
Dreaming how common is? It and then how do we do?
1:18:06
It so let's go go lucid.
1:18:09
Speaker 1: Dreaming here's the WAY i explained it to you, first
1:18:10
a little bit of a story about. It WHEN i
1:18:13
was constructing this, book it's lucid. Dreaming oh, NO i
1:18:15
don't want to cover. This there can't be any science for.
1:18:18
It two out of nine chapters aren't Lucid and so
1:18:21
again that's it's refreshing for. Me and the most rigorous
1:18:25
science on dreaming is about lucid. Dreaming so we talked
1:18:30
earlier about the waking brain and the dreaming. Brain now
1:18:34
we know that there's a sleep entry and there's a
1:18:37
sleep exit in the middle of. Dreaming in the middle
1:18:40
of the, night some people become, Aware, Hey i'm actually,
1:18:46
dreaming and they become aware of the. Dream and somebody might, say,
1:18:50
well why is that? Unusual, well most dreams are in
1:18:52
the rear. View you wake up and you, say, oh,
1:18:54
whoa that was a, dream because but LIKE i had a,
1:18:57
VISUAL i had a vibrant one last. Night BUT i
1:19:00
and only WHEN i woke, UP i was, like, okay
1:19:03
that was only a. Dream but when the dream was,
1:19:05
HAPPENING i was fully inhabiting the. Dream that was the
1:19:09
dream was happening in my mind right and at the
1:19:12
neuronal electrochemical. Level so sleep, entry sleep. Exit lucid dreaming
1:19:18
is the return of awareness allowing people to know that
1:19:22
they are actually in a dream while. Dreaming, okay not
1:19:26
in the rear view LIKE i had this. Morning and
1:19:29
so that's a big. Statement and WHAT i would say
1:19:32
is there's proof for. It lucid dreaming can be proven
1:19:38
by this experiment that they did and have been. Doing
1:19:41
that's the thing about studies and experiments for your. Listeners
1:19:44
if somebody breaks into something new and it's, real you'll
1:19:47
see an explosion of data in the scientific literature for.
1:19:50
That and in the seventies somebody, said wait a, second
1:19:53
you're a lucid. Dreamer you're telling me you can become
1:19:57
aware while you're in a dream while the dream is.
1:20:01
Happening and so they did a couple of. Things they
1:20:04
trained the person that rapid eye, movement which is like
1:20:07
skittish eye movements when we sleep and. Dream they, said
1:20:10
if you're in a lucid dream and consciousness has, returned
1:20:13
can you can you communicate with me like with your
1:20:16
eyeballs through like A morse? Code and people should look this.
1:20:20
Up they, left, right, left. Right they train these eye
1:20:24
pattern movements at the same time they put the electrodes
1:20:27
on the surf of the, scalp because a guy like
1:20:29
me will be, like he's just woke, up, Right, WELL
1:20:31
i need to know more than. That and they prove
1:20:34
by the electricity that the person is truly, asleep so
1:20:38
you can't fake being asleep across a. Glass this person
1:20:42
at a certain time in the middle of the, night
1:20:45
proving they're, asleep starts to communicate with their, eyeballs and
1:20:49
it still shows you're, asleep communicating with the outside world
1:20:53
when you're. Asleep that's. Powerful that's lucid. Dreaming AM i
1:20:57
a lucid? Dreamer? No HAVE i had one or? Two?
1:21:00
Yes did people working on this book start? Two? Yes
1:21:03
can it be? Induced? Yes and so lucid dreaming is
1:21:07
powerful because, again it's a liminal, state, right it's a
1:21:10
bit of, awareness it's a bit of waking consciousness that
1:21:15
has bubbled up during dreaming. Consciousness and so nothing is
1:21:19
rigid sleep. Entry you don't go from wake to sleep
1:21:22
in a. Second it's not a hard. Line so there
1:21:24
are all these, overlapping blurry states and lucid dreaming is.
1:21:28
That two more points about. That when you put those
1:21:31
patients not, patients participants into brain, scanners that executive Network
1:21:35
i've been talking about logic and stuff is. Dampened they
1:21:39
show more blood flow that, area not as much as
1:21:41
when you're, awake but the blood flow to the frontal
1:21:44
cortext that does reason and logic and awareness is. Halfway
1:21:49
so you know exactly, Right and so if everybody's been
1:21:52
a lucid dreamer and telling people of work and people
1:21:54
are shaking you off like you're out of your, head
1:21:57
tell them, no there's there's the left right eye movement.
1:22:01
Proof there's brain scam. Proof galant, tomine that drug that
1:22:05
makes lucid dreamers have more or have people start to
1:22:09
loose ad. Dream there's a lot of scientific evidence for.
1:22:11
That and the last thing, is so can we learn
1:22:14
to lucid? Dream and the lucid DREAM i had was
1:22:17
a trippy. ONE i was in the pandemic AND i
1:22:21
was teaching the boys to, say we got this, BOAT
1:22:23
i just like we. HAD i had to get them.
1:22:24
Outdoors you can't have three dogs and puppies in the
1:22:27
house and in a. Pandemic AND i, thought this is
1:22:29
the LUXURY i. Have we're by the water here In.
1:22:30
California it was Like i'm turning the helm, hard But
1:22:35
i'm going, horizontal like on a giant like, river pouring
1:22:39
off in a. Waterfall and it was just Like i'm
1:22:41
trying so hard just to stand. Still and ye, KNOW
1:22:45
i just remember the whole thing like this my right.
1:22:47
Arm and this was during the construction of this, book
1:22:50
AND i thought to. Myself that's. Interesting it's very. VISUAL
1:22:54
i Know i'm in a. DREAM i mean there was
1:22:56
a unique experiences for. Me, again as a brain they
1:23:00
usually would not even explore these. Areas but WHEN i
1:23:03
see the brain scan showing you're halfway between sleep and,
1:23:06
wake WHEN i see that drugs bringing lucid, DREAMING i
1:23:09
love pulling those two worlds together for, people you. Know
1:23:12
So i'm fascinating now with fascinating now with lucid. Dreaming
1:23:15
AND i think people who about a third of people do,
1:23:18
it like when you're thirty to forty percent report it
1:23:22
sometimes more sometimes less athletes tend to have, it more
1:23:25
gamers tend to have more visuospatial creative people tend to
1:23:28
have more lucid. Dreams and there are some techniques that
1:23:30
are out.
1:23:31
Speaker 2: THERE i was going to ask you if someone's a, beginner,
1:23:33
yeah and they want to try it after watching, this
1:23:35
they're going to get the book and they're, like all,
1:23:37
RIGHT i want to play with. It what are the
1:23:39
first three things someone should?
1:23:40
Speaker 1: Do first thing they should do is look up mild
1:23:43
lucid dreaming mild. Techniques so there are a lot of
1:23:45
techniques written about since. Antiquity people have cultivated spirituality with
1:23:51
that this massive topic.
1:23:52
Speaker 2: Faiths.
1:23:53
Speaker 1: Yeah so mild technique and what it is is waking
1:23:56
up a bit earlier than you should you plan to or,
1:23:58
should and then trying to hold on consciousness and waking
1:24:01
life as you drift into sort of back into. Sleep
1:24:05
the technique is described in the book and you can
1:24:07
look it up. Online BUT i want people to know
1:24:10
WHY i mentioned that technique after four or five is
1:24:13
because there is a study when they took a bunch
1:24:15
of people and they, said, okay we're going to teach
1:24:18
you the left right left right morse. Code you practice this,
1:24:22
technique then we're going to get you in the sleep.
1:24:24
Lab it's not my experiment or it's not my. Investigation
1:24:27
we're going to get you in the sleep. Lab, okay
1:24:30
now prove to us with your eyeball movements that you're
1:24:32
actually lucid. Dreaming everything before that was a survey, like,
1:24:35
YEAH i did, it And i'm loucid dreaming. MORE i believe,
1:24:38
people but you, KNOW i like that extra bit of.
1:24:40
Proof so the mild technique is proven with the left
1:24:43
right left right morse code technique that clearly shows you
1:24:47
are asleep based on your brain electricity and you are
1:24:50
using eye patterns so much so this is a. Banger
1:24:54
they started doing a little bit of math two plus
1:24:57
two and they'd have, code and somebody says to, ME
1:24:59
i THINK i was In, paris AND i, said wait a.
1:25:01
Second you said the dream brain doesn't do. MATH i, said,
1:25:04
yeah BUT i also showed you the brain scans that
1:25:06
show a bit of awareness and has come, back as
1:25:09
does the bit of ability to do. Math SO i
1:25:12
love seeing those pieces coming. Consistently that's.
1:25:15
Speaker 2: Brilliant roll from all your research you've, done you, know
1:25:18
tons of, research tons of, reading looking at. STUDIES i
1:25:22
feel one of the biggest things That i'm taking away
1:25:24
from this is often the questions we're asking about our
1:25:26
dreams are the wrong. Questions we're, asking like what does this?
1:25:32
Speaker 1: Mean is?
1:25:33
Speaker 2: This you? Know is this? Real? Like you? Know what
1:25:36
SHOULD i do with? This what would you say are
1:25:39
the best questions we should ask when we've woken up after?
1:25:43
Dreaming what should we be looking? For point us in
1:25:46
the right? Direction BECAUSE i feel maybe we're wasting time
1:25:49
and energy and effort in a different.
1:25:51
Speaker 1: Direction SO i would, say When i'll tell you my approach,
1:25:55
again that's that's a massive topic you've you've just asked of.
1:25:59
Me is. One there are dreams that clearly reflect your waking,
1:26:04
anxiety showing up, late alarming alarm doesn't go, off showing
1:26:10
up naked at a podium because you're worried about public.
1:26:12
Speaking so some don't require you to spend too much
1:26:16
time on. Them number, two there are universal, dreams, nightmares
1:26:20
and erotic. Dreams we've talked about that a little. Bit number,
1:26:23
three their dreams are just. Static you, know let's not
1:26:25
hold dreaming thought and emotions to what we wouldn't waking.
1:26:29
Thought there's a lot of stuff we do with them
1:26:30
today we don't even hold on too. Right, similarly the
1:26:34
fourth our genre, dreams pregnancy. Dreams massive lifetime events are,
1:26:38
Happening massive lifetime events are, happening and you're. Dreaming that's.
1:26:42
Consistent the ones THAT i would say to people are
1:26:46
to focus on are the ones that are hyper hyper
1:26:48
emotional that you and they linger into the next. Day
1:26:52
you can try to cultivate it with the morning. Technique
1:26:54
we talked about a slower, rise not switching to email
1:26:58
And instagram too. Quickly but the the hyper emotional dream
1:27:02
is one to reflect. Upon here's why the emotional systems
1:27:08
of your brain called the limbic. Structures the brain has
1:27:11
the reptilian brain inside our throat sort of back. There that's.
1:27:15
Instinct it makes you take a breath when you're. Underwater
1:27:18
above it developed the emotional, brain much like what my dog.
1:27:21
Has you, know they have, intuition they have. Instinct that's
1:27:27
called the limbic. System and people can look this up
1:27:29
and there's there's circuits in there like The pepe, circuit
1:27:32
and it's a fascinating it's a fascinating part of the.
1:27:35
Brain and then on top of it is a giant frontal.
1:27:38
Cortex the frontal cortex has is integrated with all those
1:27:44
they're all they're all. Intertwined there is no. Dopamine there's
1:27:46
a reward pathway that jumps from the reptilian to the
1:27:49
emotional to but to get things. Done our advantage and
1:27:53
the thing that blossomed our foreheads forward was logic and,
1:27:56
reason the executive and THE. Ceo SO i believe that limbics,
1:28:00
system those emotional systems are dampened during the day for,
1:28:04
productivity a conventional, productivity not. Creativity and what's happening with
1:28:08
your dreams is the roles are reversed and the emotional
1:28:12
systems can achieve a top speed that you're waking life.
1:28:16
Can't so if you have, emotions, thoughts and experiences from
1:28:19
a hyper, emotional hyper liberate, brain that's the one to
1:28:23
reflect on within your. Life And i've given a few
1:28:27
specific examples and the process of reflecting what it, means
1:28:30
it's individual to. You if you are having nightmares and
1:28:36
you don't have them and you think your, day, wait
1:28:39
my day is, Fine i'm having a lot of nightmares
1:28:42
WHEN i, don't let that be a warning sign to
1:28:46
reflect more upon. Yourself if you're struggling with a relationship
1:28:50
and you have dreams of falling or hyper emotional dreams
1:28:54
of being, chased that's your relationship symbolically finding it self
1:29:00
into your. Dreams if you are at the end of
1:29:04
life and you're having a lot of dreams about, reconciliation
1:29:10
are that's the dreaming process coming to your. Rescue the
1:29:14
end of life dreams serve a different. FUNCTION i think
1:29:18
they bring a solace and there's evidence coming out now
1:29:23
that even when our heart is, stopped the last thing
1:29:25
a brain does is have one massive dream in the
1:29:29
last minute or two potentially experiencing the universal feature of
1:29:34
near death. Experiences so know that a hyper emotional dream
1:29:38
comes from a hyper emotional state that's individual to your
1:29:42
brain and that no one can give, you no one
1:29:45
has access. To and maybe it's your responsibility to turn
1:29:49
over that feeling in those thoughts and then just to
1:29:51
pause for a minute and take all the information coming at,
1:29:54
you take all the stuff you've gone, through and actually
1:29:56
step aside for a little bit and, say, hey what
1:29:58
was that solar flare from my? Mind and if it's
1:30:03
useful to, you, Great if the process helps you remember those, more.
1:30:07
Great but if you just have that five to ten
1:30:10
minutes during your morning where you just remember that you
1:30:13
were not resting the night, before there was something wild
1:30:17
and vibrant going on and you got a glimpse of.
1:30:20
It what it means is up to, you but definitely
1:30:22
don't neglect.
1:30:23
Speaker 2: It, well said Doctor Raoul John. Diel the book is
1:30:26
Called This Is Why You. Dream if you don't have
1:30:29
your copy, already make sure you grab. It we dove
1:30:34
into some of the, themes some of the. Topics there's
1:30:36
so much more inside this book THAT i believe you're
1:30:37
going to love and appreciate so that you can dream,
1:30:40
better dream, bigger and dream more beautifully as, well which
1:30:44
is WHAT i wish for each and every one of.
1:30:45
You Rawl is there anything THAT i haven't asked you
1:30:47
that you want to share that is on your heart
1:30:50
and mind intuitively that you believe is important for our.
1:30:52
Speaker 1: COMMUNITY i think there's too much judgment going on in
1:30:57
the ways that people approach. Life and some people think
1:31:01
they've got it all figured, out and some people are
1:31:04
on the other end Saying i've got nothing figured. Out
1:31:06
AND i got to tell, you, Listen i've been into
1:31:08
that entire, range AND i would say a couple of.
1:31:11
THINGS i would, SAY i think the dreaming brain in
1:31:16
mind is a genius built in that gives us resilience and.
1:31:20
RESILIENCE i want to leave people with a brand new
1:31:22
definition of, it a psychological definition that there's systemic resilience
1:31:28
and processive. Resilience systemic resilience is what you bring to the,
1:31:34
fight and processive resilience is what the fight brings out in.
1:31:40
You so wherever you're, at you're equipped with your dreaming
1:31:43
brain as your. Ally AND i, think to, me that
1:31:47
gives me a source of strength that there's this process cultivating,
1:31:51
me protecting, me preparing me for the next. Day that's
1:31:54
not one. Side that's rule speaking. Emotionally right on the other,
1:31:58
side when you sit here and you say this brain
1:32:01
surger is trying to rock this stuff about the brain
1:32:04
and mind and all, That i'll leave you with SOMETHING
1:32:07
i did not know in. Neuroscience RIGHT i got a,
1:32:10
lab a PhD in neuroscience or a brain. Surgeon you
1:32:13
start to think you're like the expert at. It but
1:32:16
there are things in exploring dreams and dreaming THAT i was, surprised,
1:32:21
like how DID i not know? That because it would
1:32:23
have changed all the WAYS i would have acted through my.
1:32:27
LIFE i would have been more, open more, exploratory more
1:32:31
willing to accept other people's experiences because it doesn't all
1:32:36
have to make sense even to the uber. Expert SO
1:32:38
i leave people with something to search online called paradoxical
1:32:42
kinesis p R a d. Xiclkinsis it's called we can't
1:32:47
explain why you move that. Way that's my street translation
1:32:50
for that medical. Term but what it is is those
1:32:53
same patients that have dream and act and behavior that
1:32:56
care act out their dreams and later on Their parkinson's
1:32:59
develops and their brain with. Her the strangest thing is
1:33:02
when The parkinson sets in and their voices are stifled
1:33:06
and their movements are. Rigid when they act out their,
1:33:10
dreams their voices are big and their movements are. Fluid
1:33:14
the dreaming, mind somehow can access the body in a better,
1:33:22
way in a more fluid, way in a more in
1:33:24
tune way than the waking mind. Can and that that's
1:33:28
WHAT i like to leave people, With, Like i'm excited about.
1:33:31
THIS i hope you guys are, Too.
1:33:33
Speaker 2: So, raoul you talk about how naps lasting sixty to
1:33:36
ninety minutes can boost learning and creates a problem solving
1:33:39
by forty. Percent why is this and when's the best
1:33:42
time to take a?
1:33:43
Speaker 1: Nap the napping thing is big these days and people
1:33:46
are finding it's not work, harder work, longer and all,
1:33:48
that but try to work with the different states of
1:33:51
mind and brain that you have and napping if you
1:33:53
get to sixty or ninety. Minutes people have done surveys
1:33:56
and ask people to nap with puzzles and they find
1:33:59
entering a dream state or the sleeping, state which, again
1:34:03
as we've talked, about is, imaginative is divergent thinking that
1:34:06
they solve problems, better they have more solutions to. Riddles
1:34:11
and the big point there for people is there's a
1:34:14
utility to. Napping you're not lazy because you, Nap and
1:34:17
if you can do it in a way that doesn't
1:34:19
disrupt your sleep later on in the, DAY i think
1:34:21
that's another you, know in the world of. HACKS i
1:34:24
think that's the hack that we've all got built.
1:34:26
Speaker 2: In can you dream in that sixty to nine? Minutes,
1:34:29
yeah and have those dreams shown to be any?
1:34:31
Speaker 1: DIFFERENT i can't answer. That there isn't date on have
1:34:33
those shown dreams shown to be any? Different BUT i
1:34:36
would say one condition is, narcolepsi where people fall asleep
1:34:40
suddenly and there's information coming out from. Them they suddenly
1:34:43
fall asleep and then they wake up and they enter
1:34:45
a dream. State but that's a whole space that's opening
1:34:48
up the utility of, naps and it doesn't have to
1:34:50
be every, day it doesn't have to be, rigid and
1:34:53
if you have a big event or a big project coming.
1:34:56
UP i think, personally What i've tried is just shutting
1:34:59
your eyes in a quiet space and allowing that mental work,
1:35:02
space allowing yourself not to be tasked on and drift
1:35:07
inwards in your, thoughts whether you actually fall technically sleep or.
1:35:10
Not to, me that's been.
1:35:11
Speaker 2: Advantageous, yes, ABSOLUTELY i agree with. THAT i know many
1:35:14
athletes who do that as, well before a big game
1:35:16
or before a big. Performance you're not necessarily falling, asleep
1:35:20
BUT i like. It you're an off mode. Definitely and,
1:35:23
also last QUESTION i want to ask you was the
1:35:27
question That elena. Mentioned so a lot of people when
1:35:30
they're in sleep, entry they feel like they're. Falling why
1:35:33
does that? Exist why do people have that?
1:35:35
Speaker 1: EXPERIENCE i don't know IF i have an answer for,
1:35:38
that And i've seen the, reports BUT i couldn't tie
1:35:40
any signs to. That but sleep entry falling asleep is
1:35:44
a time where activation of the movement centers is pronounced
1:35:50
and falling is actually a. Movement it's not you, think,
1:35:54
oh running is a. Movement falling something that, happens to,
1:35:56
Know but the activation of the brain when people fall
1:36:00
it has to do with the motor strip as well motor,
1:36:02
sensory so during that transition there may be a link.
1:36:05
Speaker 2: There, yeah it's even interesting language like falling, Asleep LIKE
1:36:09
i guess you're falling onto your. Bed but the idea
1:36:11
of falling is JUST i don't. KNOW i find. Entering,
1:36:15
YEAH i find language really. Fascinating and WHEN i look
1:36:17
at like falling to, sleep like that doesn't make any
1:36:20
sense to me beyond falling onto your, bed which doesn't
1:36:24
necessarily create a, RESTful peaceful.
1:36:27
Speaker 1: Feeling take that back two thousand years and we memorize
1:36:30
it by, heart and that's when we thought the heart
1:36:32
was a. Center so absolutely language shapes the direction of our.
1:36:36
MIND i mean the power of words and people finding
1:36:39
handwriting is it activates more part of the brains than,
1:36:42
typing and so definitely the communication and storytelling and building,
1:36:49
meaning there's something. There i'll explore that hopefully in the years.
1:36:53
Speaker 2: Ahead. YEAH i think sleep entry and exit is brilliant language.
1:36:55
Though that has really stayed with, me and it's making
1:36:59
me think even more intentionally and insightfully around those intimate
1:37:04
moments just before waking, up especially those two to twelve
1:37:07
minutes that you said before you go to bed and
1:37:09
after you wake, up because evening and morning routines make,
1:37:12
sense but there's an even more special time there that
1:37:15
could be.
1:37:16
Speaker 1: Managed, yeah that morning time for, me sleep exit is
1:37:19
definitely SOMETHING i put to. You so a lot of
1:37:20
the ideas in this, Book i'd read, Something i'd be
1:37:23
flipping through a bunch of, Papers i'm, like what does this?
1:37:25
Mean what does this? Mean and then it would be
1:37:27
in the. MORNING i, oh maybe that maybe. That, yeah
1:37:30
not a, guarantee but definitely a space to. Explore, yeah amazing.
1:37:33
Speaker 2: Roll so we end every episode Of On purpose with
1:37:36
a fast five final. Five these are questions that have
1:37:39
to be answered in one word to one sentence, maximum
1:37:42
and these are your final. Five so the first question
1:37:45
is what is the best dreaming advice you've ever heard or?
1:37:49
Speaker 1: Received or try to remember them?
1:37:50
Speaker 2: More, okay second, question what is the worst dreaming advice
1:37:54
you've ever heard or?
1:37:55
Speaker 1: Received dreams are? Meaningless question number?
1:37:58
Speaker 2: THREE a dream you wish you to have more more?
1:38:00
Speaker 1: Often falling in love the first time.
1:38:04
Speaker 2: Question before a dream that you wish people would have.
1:38:08
Speaker 1: More, often reconciliation, dreams dreams of, forgiveness dreams of letting.
1:38:14
Speaker 2: Go and are those ones that we can train ourselves to.
1:38:17
Speaker 1: HAVE i don't, know but those are the ones that
1:38:20
some people report toward the end of. Life AND i
1:38:22
just wonder if we had that more in the middle
1:38:23
of our, life we'd be you, know we would have
1:38:27
we would have less, regrets and we'd be less you,
1:38:30
know encumbered by the fuss of the.
1:38:32
Speaker 2: Day why do you why is there any study to
1:38:35
show why people having it later on in? Life?
1:38:37
Speaker 1: No, wow that's, yeah AND i can tell you that
1:38:40
from my own experience with cancer. Patients, yeah they're called genre,
1:38:44
dreams end of life. Dreams and, again our last act
1:38:47
might be a massive, dream and it tends to be,
1:38:49
positive not always for near death. Experiences to, ME i
1:38:52
call that a dreaming coming to our. Rescue.
1:38:55
Speaker 2: Yeah could you imagine? That you're so right if you
1:38:57
could have that earlier.
1:38:58
Speaker 1: On like all that be to all that. Fuss you,
1:39:01
know it's a great. Answer you, KNOW i WISH i
1:39:04
could to let it go. Earlier, Yeah fifth and final.
1:39:07
Speaker 2: Question we asked this to every guest who's ever been
1:39:09
on the. Show if you could create one law that
1:39:12
everyone in the world had to, follow what would it.
1:39:14
Speaker 1: Be, yeah before you speak or, act do your best
1:39:18
imagine yourself in that person's.
1:39:19
Speaker 2: Shoes great, Answer doctor Ral. Johndale the book is Called
1:39:23
This Is Why You. Dream thank you so much for
1:39:26
joining us. Today if you don't. Already make sure you
1:39:28
follow Doctor Raoul johndale On instagram across social. Media grab
1:39:33
a copy of the. Book we'll put the link in
1:39:35
the comments and the caption. Section And i'm so grateful
1:39:38
for your time and energy. Today i've learned so. Much
1:39:41
you've completely transformed my way of thinking about. Dreams honestly
1:39:45
through your book in this, INTERVIEW i THINK i knew
1:39:47
nothing about dreams before we. MET i had really poor
1:39:52
ideas and maybe some limited, beliefs and speaking to you
1:39:55
today has just opened up a whole new area of
1:39:59
growth for me THAT i don't even THINK i was thinking.
1:40:01
About SO i love the idea That i'm walking away
1:40:03
with some simple yet clear tools to actually start implementing
1:40:08
from tonight and. Tomorrow So i'm really excited about this dream.
1:40:11
Journey AND i hope everyone who's listening and watching when
1:40:13
you read the, BOOK i hope you're going to go
1:40:15
on a dream journey with me, Too And i'd love
1:40:16
to see you tag me and Doctor roll in some
1:40:19
of the, experiments some of the tests that you're carrying
1:40:22
out in your own. Life thank you so, much, Pleasure
1:40:25
thank you so much for listening to this. Conversation if
1:40:29
you enjoyed, it you'll love my chat With Adam grant
1:40:32
on why discomfort is the key to growth and the
1:40:35
strategies for unlocking your hidden. Potential if you know you
1:40:39
want to be more and achieve more this, year go
1:40:42
check it out right.
1:40:43
Speaker 1: Now you set a goal, today you achieve it in six,
1:40:46
months and then by the time it, happens it's almost a.
1:40:49
Relief there's no sense of meaning and. Purpose you sort
1:40:52
of expected, it and you would have been disappointed if
1:40:54
it didn't.
1:40:54
Speaker 2: Happen