Latest / Spooky Season Podcasts 🎃 / Talking to Death with Payne Lindsey: Shane Pittman | Ghosts, Aliens and the Paranormal

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Talking to Death with Payne Lindsey: Shane Pittman | Ghosts, Aliens and the Paranormal · Spooky Season Podcasts 🎃

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to
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  Speaker 1: you absolutely free. But if you want ad free listening
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: com or on Apple Podcasts.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts.
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  Speaker 3: Listener discretion is advised.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Talking to Death. This week, we have
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: a very fun guest for you. He is a paranormal investigator.
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  Speaker 2: If you're into ghosts and spirits in the afterlife, then
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  Speaker 2: you're going to love this next guest. His name is
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  Speaker 2: Shane Pittman, best known for his work on Netflix's series
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  Speaker 2: twenty eight Days Haunted, as well as The Holzer Files
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  Speaker 2: on Travel Channel. Shane has a passion for the unexplained,
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  Speaker 2: and he brings chilling and compelling content audiences around the world.
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  Speaker 2: He's dedicated to his life and career to capturing the
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  Speaker 2: unexplainable phenomena that surround us every day. He's a highly
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  Speaker 2: respected member of his field and has some really fun
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  Speaker 2: stories to tell, and he and Paine talk about some
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  Speaker 2: really creepy encounters that they both had. They talk about
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  Speaker 2: ghosts and aliens and everything in between. So let's jump
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  Speaker 2: into it. This week's guest, Shane Pittman, Well.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming to me, man, Hey, thank you, thank
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: you for having me. Man. I appreciate it. Traffic wasn't
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  Speaker 1: too bad. No, it wasn't bad at all. It wasn't bad.
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  Speaker 1: So tell me. I just want to ask you, point blank,
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  Speaker 1: to be honest, are ghosts real?
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  Speaker 3: That is a very very interesting question. I would say yes.
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  Speaker 3: You would say yes. I would say yes, But I
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  Speaker 3: would say as far as like defining what ghosts and
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  Speaker 3: spirits are, I've changed my whole opinion on that. Okay,
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  Speaker 3: So I know that we're communicating with someone or something,
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  Speaker 3: but I don't really know what it is. I just
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  Speaker 3: know it's beyond our scope of understanding right now. So
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  Speaker 3: in my opinion, the how I labeled ghosts right now
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  Speaker 3: is something that I cannot see that I'm communicating with.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say ghosts are real. Okay, So what
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  Speaker 1: do you think it is? You know, I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: I have a lot of theories on that, Like it
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  Speaker 3: could be interdimensional, it could be.
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  Speaker 1: Ourselves.
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  Speaker 3: Like there's this interesting story okay, ourselves.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is it now getting weird? Yeah? Fast?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's this interesting story from a guy he
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  Speaker 3: tells where he was a young kid and he walked
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  Speaker 3: into his kitchen to get a sandwich, peanut butter sandwich,
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  Speaker 3: and he was like five or six years old. He
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  Speaker 3: walks in and he sees this hooded figure opening up
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  Speaker 3: his his uh, refrigerator, and it freaked him the hell
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  Speaker 3: out and he ran out of there scared to death.
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  Speaker 3: Fast forward though he's about in his early twenties. He's
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  Speaker 3: in the same house. He's visiting his parents, and he
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  Speaker 3: runs down to get a snack, which a peanut butter sandwich,
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  Speaker 3: and he runs down and he opens the refrigerator. He's
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  Speaker 3: got a hoodie on, and he sees a small figure
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  Speaker 3: in the doorway and at first he's like, this is strange,
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  Speaker 3: it doesn't make any sense. But it freaked him out again.
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  Speaker 3: But then he remembered when he was six years old,
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  Speaker 3: he saw a hooded figure in the same exact spot
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  Speaker 3: that he was standing to go get a snack and
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  Speaker 3: when he opened the refrigerator. And he's thinking that maybe
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  Speaker 3: he saw a version of himself in the future. So
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  Speaker 3: maybe we're haunting ourselves.
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  Speaker 1: I know. It's kind of a confusing thing. So he
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  Speaker 1: saw a ghost. Essentially, two times, and like it potentially
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  Speaker 1: actualized that event right where, and then the second time
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  Speaker 1: he was seeing the younger self, who was probably spooked
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  Speaker 1: the first time that yeah, okay, now it's okay. How
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  Speaker 1: do you make sense of that? I mean, we're just
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  Speaker 1: making it up here, We're just speculating, But yeah, what
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  Speaker 1: does that mean to you? Is there some sort of
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  Speaker 1: time playing that we don't understand? Is an imprint? I believe.
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  Speaker 3: I believe it is an imprint. I do believe that
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  Speaker 3: it's a time thing too, because time is man made
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  Speaker 3: as far as.
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  Speaker 1: How we do it anyway. I mean, the concept of
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  Speaker 1: the concept the ticking watch, right, that's just a measurement essentially,
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  Speaker 1: right right.
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  Speaker 3: Right, So we kind of come up as a man
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  Speaker 3: made construct. And I believe that we are more powerful
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  Speaker 3: than we kind of give ourselves credit for. I use
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  Speaker 3: this analogy all the time that you know, I can
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  Speaker 3: walk into a room after a couple had been done
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  Speaker 3: fighting and they're not saying a word. I can walk in,
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  Speaker 3: but you can feel the tension from that argument even
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  Speaker 3: though they don't say anything to you at all.
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  Speaker 1: Are you actually feeling something or are you observing them
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  Speaker 1: being different? Well? I think it's a.
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  Speaker 3: It's a mixture of both, because I've had this happen
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  Speaker 3: more than one time, where you walk in there off
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  Speaker 3: doing their own thing, but you can feel that something's
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  Speaker 3: not right. You can feel like an energy or something right.
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  Speaker 3: You can feel like a shift in the air or whatever.
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  Speaker 3: And you know how sometimes you're walking down a dark
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  Speaker 3: alleyway or whatever and you feel you just feel like
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  Speaker 3: something's off. You feel like you usually deserve to do that.
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  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's the same, not just casually every Tuesday, right, right.
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  Speaker 3: But you know, if you're walking in certain places, you
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  Speaker 3: know that.
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  Speaker 1: You're on high alert.
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  Speaker 3: It's something within you that is telling you, hey, be careful.
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  Speaker 3: It's that gut instinct. And I think that that has
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  Speaker 3: something to do with it. I think that we have
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  Speaker 3: more influence over certain hauntings then we, you know, we
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  Speaker 3: may realize. So a lot of people say, oh, this
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  Speaker 3: place is haunted or whatever, And I think a lot
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  Speaker 3: of times it has to do with living more than
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  Speaker 3: what we perceive as the dead.
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  Speaker 1: You know, living is in the observer of it, or.
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  Speaker 3: The observers sometimes the people that are inhabiting the place,
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  Speaker 3: that are living there. I think sometimes it has to
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  Speaker 3: do with maybe the environment with things that are going on,
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  Speaker 3: stress levels and whatever that energy is admitting at the
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  Speaker 3: time could play a factor in some of these strange
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  Speaker 3: and unusual things that's going on in people's lives.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, So instead of just being the Hollywood version of
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  Speaker 1: you know, it's your dead great grandpa, it's maybe your
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  Speaker 1: own energy in your life interacting with your surroundings in
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  Speaker 1: some sort of way. Absolutely, it's observable absolutely others even right.
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  Speaker 3: A lot of people. You know, I give this analogy again.
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  Speaker 3: You know, there's been since the dawn of time probably
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  Speaker 3: what millions billions of people that have passed from this
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  Speaker 3: physical plane, and we confine them to structures. So often
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  Speaker 3: we'll say this place is this place is haunted, this
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  Speaker 3: place over here is haunted. But I feel that, you know,
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  Speaker 3: if that's true, we pass on in some a fraction
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  Speaker 3: of us stay, then we're they're everywhere, or a piece
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  Speaker 3: of that person that was left behind is everywhere, so
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  Speaker 3: we can encounter them, you know, daily.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like there's this sort of Hollywood image of
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  Speaker 1: or I guess Hollywood portrayal of good and evil. So
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  Speaker 1: frequently when it comes to hauntings and ghosts, it's always
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  Speaker 1: usually portrayed as a good or evil presence, and I
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  Speaker 1: feel like that's not very scientific, But I mean that
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  Speaker 1: being said, you know, you hear stories about stuff that
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  Speaker 1: feels darker or scarier in that way. But do you
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  Speaker 1: perceive those darker instances as an evil presence or is
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  Speaker 1: it just how we're perceiving it. I've just thought before,
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  Speaker 1: what if something doesn't know where it is, or like
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  Speaker 1: if it's you know, trapped in a place and it's
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  Speaker 1: like stuck, or maybe it's not even it's like the
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  Speaker 1: remnants of what it once was and it doesn't even
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  Speaker 1: know what it is anymore. I could imagine that being frustrated.
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  Speaker 1: I'd be banging walls and shit too. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Right, well, and you know, we always fear what we
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  Speaker 3: don't understand too, So a lot of people whenever they
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  Speaker 3: have some sort of unexplained experience, they immediately jump to fear.
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  Speaker 3: It's that fight or flight mechanism. You're wanting to flee
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  Speaker 3: the area because you don't understand what's going on on.
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  Speaker 3: That doesn't mean it's evil, that doesn't mean it's necessarily
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  Speaker 3: bad to your point, you know, I feel like if
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  Speaker 3: there is an instance where you do stay here, for
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  Speaker 3: whatever reason, after you die, then if you were an
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  Speaker 3: asshole here on earth, you're going to be an asshole
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  Speaker 3: you stay in the afterlife. I mean, think about it
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  Speaker 3: like your true essence of who you are. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: if you're a good person in life, it would make
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  Speaker 3: sense that you would be a good person. If you
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  Speaker 3: stay behind in some sort of a piece of you
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  Speaker 3: left or stayed behind, then you would be still a
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  Speaker 3: good person. But again, if you were an asshole, you'll
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  Speaker 3: be an asshole again.
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  Speaker 1: You know, an asshole ghost. Yeah, so I want you
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  Speaker 1: to tell me just the first one that comes to
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  Speaker 1: your head. What is a time that you have been
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  Speaker 1: the most scared or or is there one or you
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  Speaker 1: just like totally immune to ghosts. Tickle on the back
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  Speaker 1: of your neck these days? Oh no.
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  Speaker 3: So if anybody's watched The Holser Files, which I was
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  Speaker 3: a part of for two seasons, you know, I'm a
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  Speaker 3: very skittish guy, and I don't hide it. I'll jump
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  Speaker 3: if I get scared.
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  Speaker 1: It's just one of those things. I think.
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  Speaker 3: One of the scariest times for me was whenever I
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  Speaker 3: was in Cleveland, Ohio and we were investigating this train
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  Speaker 3: yard and there were instances of a lot of weird
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  Speaker 3: things going on. They had what they call a death car,
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  Speaker 3: which why did we investigate this place, I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: But they had this place called the death car where
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  Speaker 3: this particular train car was involved in a really bad
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  Speaker 3: accident and essentially the people that were inside the train
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  Speaker 3: car got steamed alive because there was a malfunction.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's horrible, horrible jesu. Okay.
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  Speaker 3: But there was this other place in the train yard
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  Speaker 3: called the pit, and of course they send me there because.
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  Speaker 1: You know there'll be some good foot Yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So it's like, uh, it's underneath this this train car
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  Speaker 3: or whatever.
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  Speaker 1: And I go under there and there's one way in,
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  Speaker 1: one way.
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  Speaker 3: Out, and I couldn't just walk in. I had to
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  Speaker 3: crawl in because I think it's maybe two and a
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  Speaker 3: half three feet high. And I'm crawling in there, and
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  Speaker 3: for about four hours I'm in there. At this point,
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  Speaker 3: nothing really is going on.
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  Speaker 1: Four hours.
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  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, you have to or anything. Oh yeah,
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  Speaker 3: you have to hold it. Yeah, you just have to
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  Speaker 3: hold it waiting.
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  Speaker 1: For a ghost. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, guys, well you busy, well, you know,
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  Speaker 3: you you do filming and stuff too. Sometimes, especially in
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  Speaker 3: the paranormal genre of you have to wait sometimes hours
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  Speaker 3: before for a light to flicker, yeah, or footsteps or
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  Speaker 3: anything like that.
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  Speaker 1: So here I was.
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  Speaker 3: I was under the train car. It was about four
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  Speaker 3: four and a half hours.
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  Speaker 1: Did you get used to it? At that point?
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  Speaker 3: I got used to it. I was getting bored and
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  Speaker 3: I was getting frustrated it. It became less scary play
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: for a moment, right I was like, I was like, man,
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  Speaker 3: there's oil, there's dirt.
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  Speaker 1: Yea.
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  Speaker 3: It's not a cool environment to be in, and it
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  Speaker 3: kind of sucks.
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  Speaker 1: I'm ready to go.
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  Speaker 3: And while I'm thinking all of this, I start hearing
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  Speaker 3: footsteps underneath the train car. And from the viewer's perspective,
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  Speaker 3: though they're seeing, you know, it's bright, the IR light
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  Speaker 3: is bright, but underneath I could barely see anything. It's
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  Speaker 3: dark as hell under there. And so I'm trying to
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: figure out where's where are these footsteps coming from? And
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  Speaker 3: how can there be footsteps because I couldn't even walk in,
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  Speaker 3: I had to crawl in. But I'm literally hearing footsteps
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  Speaker 3: coming up to me. So I turned my camera around
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  Speaker 3: and I'm looking and I don't see anything at all.
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  Speaker 3: And then there's pebbles or rocks or something like that,
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  Speaker 3: that are being thrown at me from underneath again, and
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  Speaker 3: I can't pinpoint where it's coming from.
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  Speaker 1: Like an actual physical, physical pebble.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I'm hearing them. I'm hearing them, but I don't
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  Speaker 3: actually feel them hitting me, but I'm I'm hearing them
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  Speaker 3: being thrown. And at this point, I'm like, Okay, it's
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  Speaker 3: coming from the direction I need to get out of
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  Speaker 3: and I don't. I'm frozen. I don't want to I
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: don't know what to do, Like I don't want to
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  Speaker 3: go in the direction where they.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know what this. Yeah, yeah, so.
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  Speaker 3: That's going on, and I turn my camera and as
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  Speaker 3: soon as I do, I'm looking in that direction and
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  Speaker 3: I feel like a like a tug on my leg,
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: like something grabbing me. And so that's when I freak
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: out and I'm like, oh hell, and I then I
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: just I decide to just get out of there. But
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: later on, whenever I'm reviewing the footage, when I turn
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  Speaker 3: the camera, you see like a hand come into frame,
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  Speaker 3: like almost like coming from the from the left side.
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  Speaker 1: Like an actual hand, like a shadow not your hand.
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  Speaker 1: It's a shadow hand, not my hand, someone else, something
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: else's hands, and.
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  Speaker 3: Shadow, a shadow of a hand like coming at the
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: same time I was grabbed, and you're like, talk about
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: you talk about being probably the most freaked out I've
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: ever been.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: And to this day, the.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: People that watched The Holter Files and said that's their
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: favorite episode because they got to see me freaked out
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  Speaker 3: and scared. But that was the creepiest. That's probably the
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: creepiest time that I've ever had.
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  Speaker 1: So that wasn't some TV TV show shit. That was
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: some for real No, that was for real.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Well, see, that was one thing about me signing on
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: to do The Holzer Files, As I said, Look, I
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: know it's a TV show. I know we got to
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: have a good story. I know all of this has
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: to go on, but I really want it to be
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: as genuine as possible because I do this outside of
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: the TV world. I've been interested in the stuff since
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I was six, So I don't want my reputation tarness.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: I'm already looked at as crazy for believing in for
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: something other than myself, right, I don't want to.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Add to that.
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: So I want the footage, I want the audio. I
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: want to review it before I give it to the
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: editors and stuff, so they would hand off a drive
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: to me. Before I would even leave set the investigation time,
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: they would hand me a drive so I could review
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: it myself right on the spot, which is unheard of.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: A lot of times. They don't usually, you know, roll
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: like the yeah time.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: So I'm very thankful to have been a part of
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: a show like that. But yeah, they handed off to me,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: and and all the footage that we found that is
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: in the show, I found it and gave them the
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: time stamps. So yeah, it's no TV shit at all.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: It was real and I knew it. I mean, and
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: a lot of people ask me, oh, yeah, this is
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: just TV stuff, this is whatever. But then I asked them,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: It's like, do you see how many times I have
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: basically shipped myself and looked horrible? Do you really think
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: that I want everybody to perceive me that way? No,
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, I want to show you
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: genuine you know, how you would react at home. This
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: is how I react, and this is just me, you know,
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: so or you're just.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: A really good actor.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: No, No, if anybody knows me I'm not there, that would.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Be acting way different, be way cooler, right, I would
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: be awesome, would scream like that you know, it's crazy too.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: It like I I tried for the first couple of
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: episodes that we filmed, tried to be the stoic Shane.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: You know. Then you were like fuck this.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: And then after a while I was like, I can't
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: hide this anymore. I look awkward. This isn't this isn't normal.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I can't hide it wasn't the plan.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: You were trying to go in all brave. Yeah. I
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: was trying to go in brave and not scared of anything, right.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: I tried to do that, and then and the producers
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: and stuff were like, Shane, like, we've seen some of
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: your work.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: We know this isn't you. Just be you.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Dave Schrader, which is another really awesome guy in the field,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: he took me under his wing and he's like, Shane,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: you know, if you're scared, be scared, react, that's you.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: Be you, because that's why they brought you on to
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: begin with, So be yourself. And from that advice, I
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: was like, Okay, fine, yeah, people are going to see
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: me right and and all my glory here we go. Yeah,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: And from there that it was all she wrote.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I had a lot of spooky moments. I mean, I
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: understand the just human nature part of the curiosity of
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: paranormal stuff, right. I think that for ages we've been
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: fascinated by things that we don't understand, and there's a
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff that we still don't understand, especially in
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: the paranormal realm of things. And I don't know what
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: any of it means or if it's you know, something
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: spiritual or scientific. I lean more to the scientific side
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: of it. But how do you get wrapped into it
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: in a way where you can be a professional investigator
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: of it? Right? Like? Clearly you as a kid found
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: interest in this at some point, right, what was it
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: that kind of made it more than just curiosity? Like?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: How did it go from just being curious to I
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: do this? I guess you could say professionally. Literally, Yeah,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: that's a big jump then, yeah, which is kind of
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: your kid sells probably like hell yeah, right.
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: Right, right, That's a very good question, and I'll try
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: to condense it as much as possible. So my first
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: experience was when I was six years old and very profound.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: I went to my mother about it and it was
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: a very impactful thing for me and during that time
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: in my life. Without going into much detail, there was
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: a lot of abuse, a lot of really bad stuff
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: in my life. And it was within the moments where
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: I was wanting to give up and you know, call
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: it quits, when I would have these weird, strange, unusual
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: moments that would kind of snap me back and say, Okay,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: there's more than the shit life that you're living. There's
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: more beyond it that you can't understand. So from the
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: early age, once I got into my teenage years, I
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: started researching and reading all the books Harry Price, Hans Holzer,
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: all of the books based on the experiences that I
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: was having at the.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Time, which were what exactly well I mean.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: For instance, when I was twelve years old, I had
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I was in my room and the closet door was
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: kind of slightly open, and we had one of those
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: old houses where the carpet was higher, so the doors
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: would always scrape to the top of the carpet. It
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: would leave like a mark on there. And it was
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: slightly open, and I was going to sleep. About five
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: minutes goes by and the door slams. And I have siblings,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: so I was thinking, Okay, somebody's playing a trick on me.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: So I go open the closet door. Nothing was in there,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: so it was like, this is.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Weird, and me, being the smart Southern man that I am,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: I leave it open again and I go lay back down.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: Probably a little time happens and it slams again. This
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: time I'm freaked out. I run to my parents' room,
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: which is across the hall, and they're like, Shane, you're
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: just you're trying to stay up. Go to bed right,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: We're tired when we have work in the morn. So
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: they take me back to bed and for whatever reason,
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: that closet doors open again and it slams for a
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: third time. After they leave the room, this time they.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: Run into my room.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And I grew up in a religious household, so my
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: mother is pleading the blood of Jesus over me, doing
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: whatever she can just just to like whatever's going on,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: it needs to stop now. And I ended up sleeping
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: in their room that night. It was things like that.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: It was I would have weird visions or dreams, I
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: guess you can call it. Where there would be people
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: that would walk up to my bedside and some of
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: them would look like they're terrified. Some would say where
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: am I at?
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Where am I at? Where am I at? I don't
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: know where the stuff? They were saying at the edge
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: of your bed, like they didn't know where they were
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: literally right, like where they weren't like haunting you, They're
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: like what it is?
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: It's like, help me, where am I at? What's what's
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: so they look like us?
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: That scares me kind of they look like us that
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: they don't know where they are right more than them
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: knowing where they are and who you are right.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: And at that time, it's like, Okay, am I is
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: this just my subconsciousness just because I'm going through a
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: lot of crap.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, just stress imagining these things, right.
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: But then I would have other experiences like the door
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: slamming and stuff, things that I knew even at a
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: young age. Okay, it can't be a draft in my
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: room because the carpet. They're like, it's hard for me
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: to push the door closers stuff too, Right, So there's
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: compounding evidence. And even to this day, how I kind
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: of do investigations is I don't just jump at everything
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: and say, you know, if I hear footsteps, I don't say,
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: oh my god, that's a ghost or you know, I
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: look at it as if there's compounding evidence that's leading
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: to something that I would assume would be more paranormal nature.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Then I will take a look at it and kind
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: of try to explore it further. But just like footsteps
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: or an old house settling, which can cause sounds of
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: what it would sound like wood creaking or whatever, right,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: all that stuff is, you know, I think compounding evidence
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: is when we have to take a look at it
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: and you know, try to research further into what or
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: who we're communicating.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: With these people. I'm to have this image in my
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: head now, these people on the edge of your bed,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: wondering where they are. Let's just pretend for a moment
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that those were definitely goes, And how would you rationalize that.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: What are they doing there? I don't know. Like I said,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: that's your best theory. If you were to make one up, I.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Would say that they're If they are real, I would
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: say that they are in some transitional period and maybe
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: a part of them has stayed behind and for whatever reason,
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: they're stuck.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: But you were seeing full people though, right, They didn't
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: look like a fragment of something. They were an actual
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: full embodiment, like where they wearing clothes and stuff. I
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: mean yeah, yeah, which is which is they seem like
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: they're from this time period? Could you even sell them?
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Some of them, yes, some of them no? Do you like?
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: I remember there was this one lady who looked happy
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: and she was just walking by, but she was like
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: in a Victorian style dress, like just a dress, corset,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: all that stuff, hair up in a bun.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: It was strange.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: And again, like I said, I would think, Okay, maybe
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: I'm just dreaming or but this was more than one
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: occurrence and more than one house that I was in,
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: sometimes in stressful environments, sometimes when my life was going great,
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: but it was these moments where it's like, Okay, if
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: this is real, and not even saying it is for certain,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: but if it's real, I want to find out more
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: about it. So the more that I researched and stuff,
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: the more I saw that there was many other people
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: that were having similar experiences and I just wanted to
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: know more. But then the corporate world happened, and so
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: my studying all that stuff came to a halt because
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: corporate world happened and I had to make a living.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: There wasn't some Ghostbusters school around, No, I wish because
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: I may have sign me up. Yeah, But you know,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: I started a family, had my wife and my kids
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: and stuff, and I had to provide for them. So
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: corporate world happened.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Believe it or not.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: I was an executive in a company, worked my way
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: up and I was over hundreds of employees.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: But I was miserable.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: It was a soul draining existence.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I hated it. Sounds bad, I hated it.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: And I was in a hotel room one night in Coleman, Alabama,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: and I just rewind.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: A little bit.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: A couple of weeks prior, I had a buddy of mine,
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: a producer buddy of mine, saying, look, there's this gig,
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: this TV gig that I think you'd be good for.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: You kind of fit the part of what they're looking for.
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: Why don't you send in your headshot and all that
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: stuff and see what happens. And I've been through all
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: of that before, and it's like, I don't really want
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: to do that. I'm good with my job, I'm making money,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: it's fine. But because I was so miserable, I was like, Okay,
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: I'll just send it in. It only takes me a second.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Sure I do that, and fast forward. I'm in my
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: hotel room in Coleman, Alabama, and I'm in a really
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: low spot because I was working six days a week.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: I would come home on Sunday and I sleep all
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: of Sunday away. So because I was so exhausted, I
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: wasn't seeing my family, was missing first steps, birthdays, holidays,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: and I was just miserable. So I was in that
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: hotel room just crying out to whoever or whatever would listen.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: It's like, look, I need help, I need to change.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: I can't keep doing this. Within thirty minutes, I look down,
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: there's a phone call from la unknown caller. I pick
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: it up and it's the casting director for Holzer Files.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: And that kind of led me into So it's almost
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: like a fate.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Type thing, like it was something that you're, Okay, I
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: should do this.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: It's something that just kind of threw me into to
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: doing it professionally, and it was something I love of
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: mine that already had, so it was like a shoe in.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: But you know, that whole process too was scary because
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: I was leaving a job that.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Was paying very well and my wife at a risk. Right,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just some easy My life's going to be
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: so much better now caah move.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: And people think, you know reality TV, Oh man, you're
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: probably rolling in the dough. That's not the case at all.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: People don't really understand how all of that is.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Like, guys, do you know the budget for these shows? Yeah?
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like a promotional type thing. It was
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: more of I was taking a pay cut of.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Course, Yeah, to do something that you wanted to do
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: versus I mean something that was I guess more financially stable,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: right right.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: So you know that's why I credit my wife a
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: lot to all of this, because she said, look, you
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: love this, this is a passion of yours. This is
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: something you've been wanting to do as far as searching
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: and investigating this stuff. So if you want to do it,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: do it.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I'm rooting for you.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it was scary time, man, because I bet
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: because taking that leap is taking that leap is hard.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: I mean most people, I feel like, go through life
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: not ever taking that leap. I might say most, but
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: a lot of people do, right, Well, they play, they
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: play into what's safe, right, which which is not which
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: also that's.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, right, but if you're someone who is sitting there
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: who's on the edge of doing it, just do it
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: for sure, just for sure, and whatever that even is
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: for sure, you know, they just commit a crime or something.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: But you know what I mean, right, Well, there's so
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: many people too like they play it safe because they
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: have a family they had to take care of. And
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: that's not knocking them at all. I completely understand that.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: But yeah, if you have an opportunity as something that
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: and it's doing something you love to do, just just
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: do it.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: So when you look back in hindsight any regrets here, No,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: does it almost scare you to think about if you
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: didn't take that risk. It scares me a lot, right
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: because how close you were to not doing right And
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: because me sometimes I'm like, holy shit, I almost didn't
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: do this right. Yeah.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, and because I went through life and
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: I had some mental health things going on, because of
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: things that have happened in my life. Yeah, and I
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: always wonder, well, if I didn't take a step doing
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: something I love, where would.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: I be at? Would I still be here?
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: And that's just being completely honest, because I'd gone through
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: a lot of really traumatic times in my life. So
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: now fast forward to this time. Whenever I'm at events
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: and I'm doing things, I get to talk to people
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: not just about the paranormal and the spooky stuff, but
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: about mental health. And like I've been there, I took
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: a leap, you know. If I didn't, if all of
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: these things didn't play out like they were supposed to,
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: I wouldn't up here talking to you right now.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to do what I love.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: So I get to encourage other people that may be
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: in my same shoes at that time and be able
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: to give them some hope. And that's something that is
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: much more rewarding to me than a TV show or
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: anything else.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah, that human connection is priceless, right, And
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: because you've been that guy on the other end, and
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: you may be on the other end again, or I
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: might and it's the other way around, right.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Right, And believe it or not, Man, there's so many
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: people that come to my events that they come to
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: escape their own personal hell and their life, right, and
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: this is something that they love. But at the same
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: time they come to kind of escape that just the
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: everyday life of what they're going through and just.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Sort of live in this world for a moment.
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: Live in the world and get to explore something beyond.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: That doesn't have the same rules and constraints. Maybe is
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: that how you kind of perceive it.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: Or yep, that and it shows them kind of like
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: what I was thinking when I was younger, is like,
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: there's more beyond this life that I'm living.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: There's more beyond that.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: And people get to come to these events and share
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: and experiences of others that maybe going through similar things
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: that they're going through, and it's just a time of
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: fellowship and connection.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: And I think that's.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: Again more important than TV, more important than anything else.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: And I think, I guess objectively speaking, it would be
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: a sadder reality if there was nothing else, right, you know,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: not even from a religious standpoint, just if this was it.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: It's just us here on this big rock. There's nothing
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: else out there, there's no other dimensions or anything. It's
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: just we have really good imaginations and you know, we're
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: just born up our minds at this point.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be extremely sad, right, that's true, Solame,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: It would.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Be boring blame than it would be sad. Yeah, it's
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: like that's stupid.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: Really right, And you know, I think a lot a
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: lot of times I'd be thinking, too, well, am I
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: just hoping for something more?
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I think there's that's part of it. I mean, I
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: think that life would be more interesting if there was more.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think sometimes am I just do
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: I have an overactive imagination. But then, just to give
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: you a little example, these are things that kind of
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: snapped me out of that and say, no, there's more.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: I was in h Waverley Hills Sanitarium, which is in Kentucky.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: It is considered one of the one of the most
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: haunted places in America. That's debatable, you know, but.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I was there. The way I'm not going. I was there.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: You need to go we need to go together first
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: or second, third out there. We need to go together.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: It'd be fun.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: No, okay.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: So anyway, I was doing an event there and I
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: had a group of fifteen twenty people. Right, this is
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: a or you just well, you're you're leading like a
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: ghost hunt.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: You're leading like a little guys like come to the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: spooky place, and you're yeah, please tell me you actually
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: get scared in here as the guy who is I
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: guess not putting it on an act in this oh
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: sat and.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: People see people see uh leading up to you'll see Okay.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: So I have the group and I'm like, okay, And
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: what I like to do is get everybody quiet, because
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: when you have larger groups and stuff, it's kind of
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: hard to do anything because everybody's talking. Yeah, so I'm
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: trying to get the group together to shut up yep, yep,
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: well and kinder words. Yeah, And I look down the hall,
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: I see this man and he's kind of limping and
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: he's kind of falling behind, and I'm like, excuse me, sir,
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: can you please join us, you know, so we can
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: get started. And as soon as I say that, I
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: kid you not. You see the front of him walking
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: towards right. The only way I can describe it is
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: he morphs and you see the back of his head
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: and he's walking the opposite direction. It's like he did
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: a pivot. It's like he did an about face. But
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: you didn't see the about face. You just see him.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: You see the back of his head instead. What's very
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: interesting about this, though, pain.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: My whole group saw it.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: Okay, so it's not just me my perception. The entire
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: group saw this exact same thing. I sent two of
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: the guys that were there running because I stayed with
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: the group.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Of course, my.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: Jumpy ass is not going to run after something like that.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: I may be the pro, but I'm not going to run.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: I'm going to send somebody. Yeah, I'm going to send somebody.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Stop.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: So I sent two guys to go, and this guy
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: turns a corner. Whatever we saw, this shadow turns a
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: corner and heads towards the atrium, the little chapel in
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: the area, and they go in there and there's nobody.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: Nobody in the chapel at all. We have We had
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: guards that are in watching over the exits so that
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: way people can't go in or go out and join
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: another group prematurely. We try to keep everybody together. They're like,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: we didn't see anybody come in.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Or go out.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: But the fact that my entire group saw this saw
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: that he didn't just turn around just saw. They saw
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: him walking forward, then saw him walking backwards full on
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: shadow figure man, and there was no trace of anybody.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: That's what snaps me back. It's like, Okay, there's more
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: that we don't understand. We like to label it ghosts
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: and spirits. I don't like to say ghosts and spirits
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: as much anymore. I just know that we're talking to something,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: whoever or whatever it is. I don't know what it is,
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: and it's kind of you know, I don't know how
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: to label it other than I know it's unexplainable. It's
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: something as of right now, it's paranormal nature. It's outside
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: of that box of scientific understanding.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: Anyway. Why is it that ghosts are so hard to
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: capture on video and pictures? I mean there has to
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: be something that scientifically explains that a little bit later,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: or they're just really good at ducking it somehow, right,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: or is it not? Like I mean, just if you
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to go there. Is it something that the human
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: eye can only perceive a certain way that isn't really
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: able to be captured like that? I don't know, Like,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: do you have a thought on that? Yeah?
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So again on Holzer files, we've shown that we
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: have captured some stuff. I think it is hand hand. Uh,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: there was a mist. It was Howard's lodge.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I believe it is. There was a mist going.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: Upstairs, some really interesting stuff that it's kind of hard for.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: The anomalies that were not right.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: It's hard for me to to pinpoint what it is.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: And I think that it has something to do with,
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: you know, our perception of what we can see what
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: our eyes can physically see. And that's why I r
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: can you know, it can capture things and it can
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: see in a different scope than what our human I
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: could see. I think it could be all frequency related.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: I think that may have something to do with it,
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: that they may be showing up, but it's it's certain frequencies,
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: certain wavelengths, even cameras less physical well, even our technology
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: that we have maybe is not caught up to maybe
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: they can capture that necessarily.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I think even with.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: EVP electronic voice phenomenon, you know, whenever you capture something
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: on a recorder a voice that you know was not
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: yours or anybody else's. It's an interesting theory. There's this guy,
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: Bill Chapple that makes all of this tech and stuff,
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: and he will tell you firsthand.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: That he doesn't believe in ghosts.
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: He just believes that there's some strange shit going on,
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: and he's testing theories and testing things. But he told
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: me something that was really interesting about EVP. He's like,
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: you know, Shane, right now that I have this this
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: microphone that can shoot a laser to a certain part
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: of a room, and I can play music in that
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: frequency and it can sound like the music is coming
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: from over there, but really it's coming from this device
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: I have in my hand. But I can make the
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: sound go wherever I want it to go. What and
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: that's just what it's all I want. It's a mono
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: I have to ask him, it's mono something microphone, but
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: it's a.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Laser crazy, it's actually tricking your brain or is it?
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: And he really, well he can point it to certain
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: to certain like if.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: There's exactly is he is still like audibly coming from
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: this device in his hand. So yeah, So it's electromagnetic pinginge,
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: pinging somewhere, eating this perception that it's not coming.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: From and in frequency that the human ear can hear. So like,
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: if there's a group of people right sitting in an audience,
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: he can point this microphone to the right half of
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: the audience and only the right half can hear what's
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: coming through and the other half would be like, I'm
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: not hearing anything, right. So if there's things like that,
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: I believe that there's so much more in regards to frequency,
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: in regards to maybe our visual spectrum of what we
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: can see that that is unexplained, that maybe there's more
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: that if our eyes could see in that scope, we'd
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: be seeing a hell of a lot more, you know.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: So I think that the reason why sometimes we don't
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: capture is maybe we don't maybe we haven't caught up
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: to the technology to be able to capture something like that,
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: you know. And maybe we're on a certain wavelength in
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: certain times that we're able to see anomalies and we're
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: able to see things, you know, like there's different dream
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: cycles and sleep cycles and stuff, right, and in those
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: cycles you can there's it's best for like hypnosis and
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: things like that. I think maybe if we're in certain states,
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: we're able to see and understand more. It's the same
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: stuff with people who go through PTSD, and they'll claim
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: all the time they see all kinds of things, and
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: we say, yeah, what could just be because there's a
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: stress disorder. It's all the stuff, and we'll label it
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: as a medical disorder. But who's to say that they're
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: not really seeing the things that they're seeing.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Sometimes, well, either way, it's still a reality to them,
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: exactly exactly. It's a very coming right where it's like
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: if it's real to you, is it real? What's real? Right?
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: We have the booth say it's real.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: Well, and here's the thing too, like, uh, you know
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: psychics and mediums, right, So they say that they can
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: hear people speaking to them that nobody else can hear.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: If you pay them money.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: Well, I've worked with I've worked with some good ones. Now,
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: I've worked with some good ones. Okay, I will tell
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: you that I've worked with some good ones. And I'm
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: in the Bible belt man, So I was told that.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: They were all demonic. These anyway, these fortune tellers are
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: really yeah, the devil, right.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: But you know they say that they can speak to
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: people and they can hear different voices and things like that.
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: But then we'll label someone else that says that schizophrenic
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: right there. So there's a fine line. Yeah, there's a
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: fine line.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: That are you crazy? Are you not? Are you seeing
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: the things? Are you hearing the things that? Are you
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: making it look polished enough? You have mediums, don't you know?
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: It is a wild thing. Like no, I get it.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: I hear voices. That's usually not a good thing, right,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: But is that not the same thing that they're saying, right?
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: That's the thing that called number for that, right. But
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: there's a fine line. But then you know, there's there's
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: some cases I've worked on or research some true crime
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: cases where they would call in mediums legitimately and sometimes
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: sometimes they would pinpoint or they would give some instances
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: where it would be a good lead.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: In a lot of In a lot of instances they
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: have done that. So clearly they're like, we're running at
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: op since here. We'll try anything.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: Even the government, real government with remote viewing and things
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: like that, they had, they had a whole program catered
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: to all of that. So I think there's something to it.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: But to your credit, like, there's a lot out there
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: that you know aren't legitimate, and there's I believe there
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: are a handful that really are and that you we
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: need to listen to what they say before we just
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: discard because we.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Could be missing out on advancements. Yeah, if this coming
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: out waste more than us and we're just over here,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: you know, shrugging it off right.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Well, you got to think, for the longest time, people
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: thought the Earth was flat, and they thought anybody that
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: gave any other theory they thought were it is.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: If you're still a flat earther, is that are you?
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Are you really a flat earther?
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: If you're still a core flat earther, Are you just
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: you just being anti yeah right, I think you're being
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: a lily yeah, flat right, I mean like you're just
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: being a rebel.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: And it's like to what end though, right, Like if
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: the Earth is flat, then why is it? What's the
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: point of the conspiracy? Like why why did we convince
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: you that it wasn't flat? Yeah? Like who cares if
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: it was flat or not? This doesn't make sense to me,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Like to what end?
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: And to all the flat earthers that they're listening right now.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: One of you just tune out?
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah no no, But you know, people thought they were
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: crazy at one point, you know, and or well they were,
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: and then people who thought that sorry I said that,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: all right, so people who flatter No, no, no, not
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: at all. People who thought people who entertained ideas that hey,
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: the Earth isn't flat. Yeah, everybody who thought the Earth
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: was flat at the time was like, you're nuts. But
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: if they didn't listen to that reason, we wouldn't have
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: the advancements we have now. I screwed that all the
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: hell in back.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: It sounds like you're more on the flat side.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: But that's The thing is like, at one point in time,
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: people thought something was a certain way, but if they
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: didn't listen to to other theories and things like that,
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: then we would still be stuck in that right, right.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: We didn't think if we didn't challenge that right.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: Right, It's so easy to be in the moment and
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: think that we've learned everything, right. I think that's very
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: naive and closed minded to think that way. But I
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: totally get how even society makes it easier to think that.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: But we are literally learning shit every single day and
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: we'll never stop. We'll never stop. People will ever stop.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: You don't stop, period.
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: And this is why I love what I do so much.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: A lot of a lot of people look at it
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: and be like, oh, you believe in ghosts, you believe
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: in all this stuff?
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: But I think the search for something is far more
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: rewarding to me than actually finding the ant to all
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: of this stuff. I think the search and building the
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: connections along the way is far more valuable to me.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Just that pursuit and that journey that you go on
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: is kind of just your life story now.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: Because as trial and error, you're you're thinking, Okay, is
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: this real?
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Is this not, and you.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: Entertain different theories and different things and come up with
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: your own conclusions. I mean, I think that is what
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: life is all about, really, is working out our own
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: life journey and learning along the way.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: You had mentioned before we met that there was a
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: missing person's case you wanted to talk about it. Yeah,
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: piqued my interests. What is this case? What is it?
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: So it's the case of Diana Rojas. So and the
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: reason why this is so close to my heart is
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: because she was good.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Friends with my mom.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: We were in Forderwin, California, and they were a part
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: of what they call PwC, which Protestant Women of the Chapel.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: So it was a Bible study.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Like I said, I grew up in a religious household,
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: and she was a really sweet lady. And while we
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: were there we would have get togethers and cookouts and
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. And then we kind of lost touch
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: because as military families do, that's what happens is you
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: kind of move on and do your own thing. My
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: mother calls me one day and she's like, hey, you
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: remember Diana Rojas It was like yeah, she said, well
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: she's been missing and she'd been out of touch with
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: her for some years. She's like she's been missing for
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: a while, since two thousand and In fact, her the
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: twenty third anniversary is in a few days. Actually, she's
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: been missing since October twentieth, two thousand and The reason
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: why I find it odd is she had a two
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: year old daughter at the time, and anybody that knew
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: Diana knew that she would never leave her daughter at all.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: So just to talk about it just a little bit.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Leading up to this, her and her husband, they were
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: going through a divorce. His name is America. She had
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: a restraining order against him for stalking and for and
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: for violence and abuse, and so that's two strikes right there, right.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: So they were going through this divorce at the time,
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: and a part of the court ordered like living arrangements
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: and stuff, America paid for two apartments in this apartment complex.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: So Diana lived in one apartment and he would live
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: with his sister and daughter whenever he was on leave.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: So one night there was a court ordered drop off,
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: she had to drop off her daughter to him, so
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: she did, and she had a date with her boyfriend,
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: which was David Howard, and they were in the apartment.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: Twelve fifteen, twelve thirty in the morning on October twentieth,
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: David Howard leaves and he says he closed the door
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: behind him and locks it, and she's asleep on the sofa.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: Diana is supposedly October twentieth. Nine am comes around and
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: David Howard is at church, of course, because he was
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: the pastor's son, so that's where she worked at the time.
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: It's called the nesting place, and he calls and there's
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: no answer, so they start freaking out where is she.
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: They go to the apartment and they don't find her,
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: but they find a couple of droplets her blood on
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: the sofa, and what was really weird about that is
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: there was a bandana on the sofa too that seemed
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: to be soaked in What they say is urine. What
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: the police say, urine, Yeah, okay, which is really odd.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: And her ninety two black Nissan pickup truck was also missing.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: So they did all this searches and stuff, and nothing
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: came up. David Howard, the boyfriend, and America Rojas.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: Were interviewed and they were.
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: Suspected at the time, but they both had alibis. America
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: said that he was with his daughter and sister in
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: the apartment and so they guess and for that at
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: the time, at the time, I say, okay. So the
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: police later on said that there was inconsistencies. They couldn't
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: validate whether or not the alibi and matched up or not.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: David Howard he had a solid al I don't remember
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: what his alibi was. But years go by, and what
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: is really frustrating for me is that ninety two pickup.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: There's no paper trail, you know how vehicles normally have
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: the paper trails and all that. There's no sign of
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: this truck at all.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Like it's never come up again to your knowledge at all.
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: Like it's like it's just disappeared with her. Yeah.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: So what's weird is years later, I believe what sixteen
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: years later, they get an anonymous tip Long Beach does
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: and they say, hey, look, Diana Ross, she's not missing,
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: she's dead and you can find her in the desert here.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: She's buried there.
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: And this anonymous tip gave coordinates, gave like the location
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: of where she was buried. So the police of the
• 53:00
  Speaker 3: time was like, I think, as Mark Biggles as the detective,
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: He's like, Okay, I need to check this out because
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: this is looking promising, so they linked up with this
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: third party group called necro Search, which they deal with
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: like anomalies. They use satellite imagery to see if there's
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: any anomalies from months to month.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Or year to year in ritation to it's like the
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: geography change where someone may have been buried there or yep,
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: something like that, yeah, yep.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: And they came across eleven anomalies that they sent to
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: the detective, and the detective narrowed it down to five
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: and then there was one specific spot where necro Search said,
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: this is probably your best bet of if she's buried here,
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: this is where you'll find her. So they took out
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: a crew dug up these spots nothing, so the family
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: had to relive all of this again. It was like, Okay,
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: they thought they were going to get some closure. Okay,
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: she's you know, even though it's not good still, but
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: they they were robbed of that closure again because they
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: didn't find her. They didn't find the truck. And another
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: puzzling thing is America Rodriguez right his mo in the military,
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: because he was in the military, was operating earth diggers
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: like earth movers, these bulldozers and excavators that was his
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: MO in the in the military.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: It's someone who clearly knows how to do that. If
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: that were right.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of things strange about this.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: The letter sent to the police, like the head coordinates.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Does someone write a letter.
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: Like no, no, no, they called in. They called and said, hey,
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: look this is where you can find it. They called
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: in address it was a male. Well, they said that
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: they couldn't there was. The detective said that there's no
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: way we could have pinpointed who.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: It was that gave the TI. Well, if that's too bad. Right.
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: So it's a lot of really puzzling, frustrating things for
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: me because it feels like, and I'm not trying to
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: to blame anybody, but it feels like there's the ball
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: has been dropped in some way here.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, clearly you're at this point, you're looking
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: at two people that need to be reinterviewed by the police,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: right yep. Or let me talk to you. Then, if
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: if this was your friend, you should be wondering what
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: happened to her. Still, I know it might be hard
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: to talk about, but it would be more suspicious if
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: you didn't, right, because you could help clear up a
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff.
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: And here's another thing payint Like, not long after Diana
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: came up missing, America tries to take out a three
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy after after so mean, okay,
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: why would you even okay, exactly call one exactly and
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: that just as obvious as it seems, right, But but
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: think about it, like if you have a two year
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: old daughter, Yeah, you're not gonna want to just give
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: up hope that your daughter's mother is dead.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: How holds the daughter now?
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: Now she's twenty twenty five? Twenty five?
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: Yep? Wow.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: So and that's another thing. America cut off all ties
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: with Diana's side of the family after all this went down.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: So Mercedes not only lost a mother, but she lost
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: that whole side of her family as well. Ease, okay,
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: so all of these things just it's frustrating. Why would
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: you take out a life insurance policy? Then one of
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: his friends from Ford Irwin, his soldier buddies, tells the
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: police that and tells friends that America said, oh, they'll
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: never find Diana. Why would you say that? Why would
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: you say that if you didn't know something? You know
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: what I mean, I'm not trying to get that point
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: blame here.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: These are things that this person should answer to. I mean,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: if they aren't true, then defend yourself. But I think
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: that either you're just really really unlucky or you're not right.
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: And it's it's sad because again Mercedes had to go
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: and she's probably been told a different version.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Of a story.
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then missing out on that half of her
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: family as well.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: It's horrible.
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: And again, anybody that knew Diana knew how sweet she was.
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: I remember I was only thirteen at the time, twelve,
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: thirteen years old. She was always super sweet to me,
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: very funny. Yeah, just a great person. But I remember
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: America as well. When we were having one of the
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: get togethers, he looked like he didn't want anybody there.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Oh really, And he remembers this.
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: He's very intimidating, very interesting, very intimidating guy, like like
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: very stern face, didn't didn't give a shit if you
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: were there or not, didn't want you there. I wouldn't socialize,
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: so it would.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: Give you bad vibes.
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: Even then, And whenever my mother told me that she
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: went missing, she told me right away she felt it
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: was probably America because there was a restraining order that
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: she took out against him. She would tell her co
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: workers that he broke her arm one time and that
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: she was fearful of her life. All of this stuff,
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: and he was never He was never a prime suspect.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: I don't get it, you know, pretty cut and dry.
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: Hopefully someone hears something.
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Or and that prompts someone to speak about this, because
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: I assume he's still around likely right as far as
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: I know he is. Yeah, I haven't been.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: Able to because I tried to research, try to find
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: them online and stuff right head over the years, I
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: haven't been able to locate him or his daughter. I
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: look to see if really maybe his daughter was had
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: a social media presence at all.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: That's like, yeah, I already did.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: All are the pros here on that, but but you know,
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: that's that's one thing. Kind of what led me into
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: researching it some anyway, was like I have this group
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: whenever I'm not doing the TV stuff called the Searchers,
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: and it's me and a longtime buddy of mine, Josh Purvis,
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: and we try to provide answers for those unusual, unexplained things,
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: but also for the living as well. So we've done
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: some true crime stuff as well, just because it's all
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: about the search, like we're all searching for something strange
• 59:52
  Speaker 3: and unusual, or it's other things, you know, we're all
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: searching for something. We're all on a journey. And this
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: just hit close to home, man, and the fact that
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: this beautiful lady there's no answers whatsoever. There's some leads
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: and being told and she could be out there in
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: the desert. They could have missed her by one hundred yard.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's worth researching.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, And there was eleven anomalies. Where did those
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: anomalies come from? How were those there? If they were
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: different from a certain time to present, why were those
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: anomalies there in the first place? Yeah, just so many
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of unanswered questions. And if you narrow down
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: six anomalies, why didn't you just go to the other six.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: I know you have to have resources and time and
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: money and stuff.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Right, this is not cheap or easy to do by
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: any means, But why not investigate the places the soul search?
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: I think? Right?
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: Right, that's what it sounds like, right for her when
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: if anybody's been there, that's like the that that I
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: don't want to cut too much of that asshole of
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: the west. It was like one hundred and it was
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: it was like one hundred and thirty degree dry heat.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: That's oh god, whenever we first moved there, and it's
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: just there's nothing there but as whole of the west,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: the ass whole of the West. But there's nothing there
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: but desert man. Like, So, I mean, if she was buried,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: I think that if something happened to her in that way,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: that she's buried with the truck, because why would there
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: not be a paper trail, why would there not.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: Be the register? That's an interesting point.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: And even the detective at the time, he's like, there
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: is no trace at all of this truck since and
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: this is years and years later, man. So I would
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: think that if something.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Happened, the truck is part of the evidence there.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: Right on with her, because she wouldn't have left. She
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: wouldn't have left her daughter.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: There's something you would keep, right, it's worth something.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: And it wasstered. You know, it's registered in America's name.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Right, What why in what circumstance are you ditching the
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: truck here? Yep? If it's foul play, for sure. So
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: it's a good point.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's mind boggling to me.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, we'll share this in the episode. Hopefully someone here, Yeah,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: please please do.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: If anybody here know anything, you could have the missing
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: puzzle piece that ties all of this together and gives
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: closure to a family. And that's what's the most is
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: the most important about all of this. But yeah, I mean,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: there's so many sad there's so many missing persons that
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: you are instrumental in a lot of all of this
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: bringing it to light. But there's so many people out
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: there that don't get the closure, that don't get the answers,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: and that is heartbreaking, you know, especially for a young
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 3: kid Mercedes that had to grow up without a mother.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: It's heartbreaking stuff. And never knowing it if her mother
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: abandoned her or if she's dead.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: She has no answer, just the unanswered question part of it.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: It's got to be a whole other layer that is
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: hard to i mean, probably unimaginedly hard to grapple with. Yeah,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: and the.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: Fact that he talked to his friend saying that there
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: that they would never find her. He's talked to more
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: than just that friend. Then yeah, if if, if that
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: is true, and he really did say that, there's more
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: people that know something absolutely.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Or they've observed behavior or instances over the years that
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: point to a direction. Here. For sure, it's be a
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: one off thing, but if you put it with everything else,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: here tells us something that this family needs to know. Ye. Well, yeah,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: hopefully something happens. We'll just some digging too. I'm curious, Nat,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: please do the people are now? But yeah, cases get
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: solved every day. It's not easy to do. But sometimes
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: the time that's passed is a good thing for certain people.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Maybe people are less or more likely to talk because
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: their life's different.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 3: Now, yeah, or it's been weighing on them for so
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: long they have to get it off their checks.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Or they're ready to free themselves of the burden of
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: it all.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know it's anonymous tips for a reason.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: I would really love to know who that man was
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: that gave the tip and said that, oh she's she's
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: she's been murdered.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: That something rankster, right, Either one, it's messed up.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: But but if it was a prankster, because that's what
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: what my thought process was too. But if there it
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: was a prankster, then why would there be anomalies in
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: the area that he's that this tip came from said, Hey,
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: she's buried out here. Why would there be these anomalies
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: in that area? It just doesn't make sense.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Doesn't Yeah. Well, if we find anything, I'll let you know. Yeah,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: please do, please do well. Thanks man, this has been
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: a blast. Yeah. I appreciate it all kind of places. Man,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Yeah, dude, I appreciate it. Thank you.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 5: Talking to Death is a production of Tenderfoot TV and
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 5: iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay. For Tenderfoot TV,
• 1:05:31
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• 1:05:35
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• 1:05:40
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• 1:06:05
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• 1:06:12
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• 1:06:15
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