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Bonus Episode: Disgraceland Q1 2026 Preview · DISGRACELAND

0:00
Speaker 1: Disgraceland is a production of Double Elvis. This is a
0:17
Speaker 1: story about well, it's a story about a bunch of stories,
0:21
Speaker 1: wild stories, stories too wild for mainstream storytelling. Stories the
0:26
Speaker 1: corporate studios wouldn't dare tell stories the algorithms will suppress.
0:31
Speaker 1: These are stories about the most interesting musicians for music history.
0:36
Speaker 1: And there's stories about musicians and true crime. These are
0:40
Speaker 1: Disgraceland stories. And this is a revealing look into the
0:44
Speaker 1: lives and transgressions of the musicians that we love, which
0:48
Speaker 1: means that it's a story about great music. Unlike that music.
0:52
Speaker 1: I've played few at the top of the show that
0:55
Speaker 1: wasn't great music. That was a preset loop from my
0:58
Speaker 1: melotron called Brubeck and MK one. I played you that
1:03
Speaker 1: loop because I can't afford the rights to whatever the
1:07
Speaker 1: hell it is that is number one on the charts today.
1:09
Speaker 1: And why would I play you that specific slice of
1:12
Speaker 1: modern cheese if I could afford it, Because today is
1:15
Speaker 1: the day that I take you behind the scenes of
1:17
Speaker 1: the upcoming season of Disgraceland. On this episode, we preview
1:23
Speaker 1: our stories on Lady Gaga, MIAs Apoda and the Gets,
1:26
Speaker 1: Johnny Thunders and more. I'm Jake Brennan in this as
1:31
Speaker 1: a special behind the scenes look into the next season
1:35
Speaker 1: of Disgraceland. All right, guys, I'm trying something new today.
1:52
Speaker 1: In the past, we used to only release twenty four
1:55
Speaker 1: episodes per year, and we could have seasons of Disgraceland
1:59
Speaker 1: in four. Each season, i'd make an announcement and reveal
2:02
Speaker 1: which artists we were recovering, and we'd all discuss online
2:07
Speaker 1: all those cases, and you know which other artists you
2:10
Speaker 1: guys wanted covered in upcoming seasons. But ever since we
2:14
Speaker 1: evolved our release schedule a couple of years ago to
2:16
Speaker 1: being always on, there really aren't any seasons anymore. It's
2:20
Speaker 1: kind of just one big, ongoing season, which, if I'm
2:23
Speaker 1: being honest, kind of took from me one of the
2:25
Speaker 1: things that I really liked about Disgraceland, which was having
2:28
Speaker 1: the space to announce and discuss the upcoming subjects. So
2:32
Speaker 1: that's what we're gonna do here today, and we're gonna
2:35
Speaker 1: do it four times a year, every quarter. But it's
2:38
Speaker 1: gonna be more than an announcement. It's going to be
2:40
Speaker 1: a behind the scenes look at the show, a discussion
2:43
Speaker 1: on the artists and the crimes and the production of
2:47
Speaker 1: the stories that we put together. This conversation is going
2:49
Speaker 1: to happen at first between Zeth and I, and then
2:51
Speaker 1: we're going to bring in all of you as well,
2:53
Speaker 1: and we're going to give you a peek into how
2:55
Speaker 1: we choose these subjects. Now, you can also help you
2:58
Speaker 1: a part of this selection process us in more of
3:01
Speaker 1: a formal way on Patreon, and as we get into
3:05
Speaker 1: the formal selection of these artists throughout the year, we'll
3:09
Speaker 1: give you guys who aren't Patreon All access members. Well,
3:12
Speaker 1: like I said, we'll give you a peek into that
3:14
Speaker 1: process right here in these behind the scenes episodes. So
3:18
Speaker 1: let's get started and let me bring you back to
3:21
Speaker 1: Hollywood nineteen seventy five. Down on Sunset Boulevard, Latchkey, kids
3:30
Speaker 1: from the suburbs were gravitating to Rodney's English Disco, ground
3:34
Speaker 1: zero for all things glam and glitter and best of
3:38
Speaker 1: all transgressive. Carrie Chrome climbed out of the car and
3:42
Speaker 1: slammed the door shut and watched as the strangers who'd
3:44
Speaker 1: given her a lift drove off into the distance. She
3:48
Speaker 1: had no idea how she'd get back home, but who cared.
3:52
Speaker 1: She wasn't going back there This was the place, and
3:55
Speaker 1: these were her people. The girls who looked like boys
3:58
Speaker 1: and boys who looked like earls. The Rooster Hare, the
4:02
Speaker 1: rhyin stones, the sequins and platform heels, all of its soundtrack,
4:07
Speaker 1: not by Captain and Taneil or the Fucking Eagles, but
4:10
Speaker 1: by the New York Dolls, t Rex the Sweet, and
4:13
Speaker 1: that pre eminent badass of leather clad rock and roll
4:17
Speaker 1: Susie Quattro. Carrie took it all in and for the
4:21
Speaker 1: first time in a long time, she felt at ease.
4:24
Speaker 1: But it wasn't enough to simply be there in the crowd.
4:27
Speaker 1: Carrie Crome would be an active participant. She wanted to
4:31
Speaker 1: be the one to write the songs of tomorrow, the
4:33
Speaker 1: ones local legend DJ Chucky Starr would spin for this
4:36
Speaker 1: glamorous crowd. It was a crowd that, on any given
4:39
Speaker 1: night included everyone from Robert and Bonzo of led Zeppelin,
4:43
Speaker 1: to Ray and Dave at the Kinks, to the once
4:45
Speaker 1: boy King himself, Elvis Presley, who knows she could run
4:49
Speaker 1: into Iggy Pop or Elton John and slip them a
4:52
Speaker 1: page of her lyrics, and maybe even David Bowie himself.
4:57
Speaker 1: But it wasn't Bowie or Iggy or Elton, a Carrie
5:00
Speaker 1: met when she went to Hollywood. Instead, she was introduced
5:04
Speaker 1: to another songwriter, a music producer, a man named Kim Folly.
5:10
Speaker 1: Foley's resume was scattershot but impressive. He'd written for Warren Zevon,
5:15
Speaker 1: Alice Cooper and The Birds, and produced songs by Gene
5:19
Speaker 1: Vincent and Jonathan Richmond. But what really mattered to Carrie
5:23
Speaker 1: was that he seemed genuinely interested in her songs. He
5:27
Speaker 1: said she had real talent and that with his guidance,
5:31
Speaker 1: she could be somebody somebody else. And so on her
5:35
Speaker 1: fourteenth birthday, Carrie Chrome signed a contract with the thirty
5:40
Speaker 1: six year old Kim Foley. All Right, that is a
5:46
Speaker 1: live excerpt from our upcoming episode on the Runaways. In
5:50
Speaker 1: Kim Folly. The Runaways was, of course, jone Jet and
5:54
Speaker 1: Leader Ford's first band. I mentioned jon Jet and leader
5:56
Speaker 1: Ford by name because they went on to have prominent
5:59
Speaker 1: careers after The Runaways. Now, covering the Runaways is something
6:03
Speaker 1: that I've been planning on doing since I started Disgraced
6:05
Speaker 1: Land back in twenty eighteen, but I always shied away
6:08
Speaker 1: from it because of how dark the subject matter is,
6:11
Speaker 1: and I kind of had this other idea, a fun
6:14
Speaker 1: way to cover this story. I know people who knew
6:18
Speaker 1: Kim Fowley, who worked with him, and I always got
6:21
Speaker 1: this weird feedback that he was a vampire, and I
6:23
Speaker 1: thought it would be funny to produce a show that
6:27
Speaker 1: literally cast Kim Foley as some sort of actual, real
6:31
Speaker 1: life Hollywood vampire. But the subject matter here is too real,
6:36
Speaker 1: it's too raw, it's too fucked up that taking that
6:39
Speaker 1: tone would have been a mistake. This is one of
6:42
Speaker 1: the first all female rock groups of consequence, and because
6:46
Speaker 1: of that alone, there's a lot to be celebrated in
6:48
Speaker 1: this story. But there's a darkness here that is just gross.
6:52
Speaker 1: It's not something that I necessarily wanted to have my
6:56
Speaker 1: head submerged into during weeks of research. Oh I passed
7:01
Speaker 1: it off to our colleagues, Zeth Lundy here and had
7:04
Speaker 1: him do it. Zeth, you actually researched and wrote this story,
7:09
Speaker 1: so give us a peek into the darkness. But first
7:11
Speaker 1: of all, how you do, my man.
7:13
Speaker 2: I'm doing great. I'm glad to be out of the
7:15
Speaker 2: darkness and in the light with you right now, and
7:17
Speaker 2: just looking at this slate of subjects we have coming
7:20
Speaker 2: up this year. I'm just really excited for the stories
7:21
Speaker 2: we're gonna tell.
7:22
Speaker 1: Awesome. Yeah, I'm pumped too. I feel like this year
7:25
Speaker 1: I made a conscious effort to really focus on female
7:30
Speaker 1: artists as much as we can. And there's always been
7:33
Speaker 1: this gender imbalance in our story episode subjects, because the
7:40
Speaker 1: best stories that we tell are the ones that they're
7:46
Speaker 1: reckoning stories, their stories about an artist behaving very badly
7:52
Speaker 1: and doing a bunch of transgressive true crime, etc. Just
7:58
Speaker 1: on balance for music history, there's not a lot of
8:01
Speaker 1: women who fit that bill. There are some, and we've
8:03
Speaker 1: covered them all, I think, or most of them, but
8:08
Speaker 1: we kind of found a way to tell stories about
8:10
Speaker 1: more female artists that are at least transgressive. They're involved
8:13
Speaker 1: in transgressions, things have been happened, things have happened to them,
8:16
Speaker 1: which gets us into the story, and it just allowed
8:19
Speaker 1: us to kind of up the quantity of female artists
8:21
Speaker 1: that we can cover. And you're definitely going to see
8:24
Speaker 1: that in twenty twenty six. But back to the Runaway Zeth,
8:28
Speaker 1: give me a one sentence description on this runaway story.
8:34
Speaker 2: I think this is a story about the transformative power
8:37
Speaker 2: of rock and roll, like how you can use it
8:39
Speaker 2: to literally become somebody else, to escape the dullness of
8:42
Speaker 2: everyday life. But it's also about the flip side of that,
8:45
Speaker 2: the price that you have to pay for that kind
8:48
Speaker 2: of escape, the manipulation and exploitation that is often at
8:51
Speaker 2: the center of.
8:52
Speaker 1: The music business. Like I said when I was seeing
8:55
Speaker 1: this story up, there's a lot of exploitation. You just
8:58
Speaker 1: mentioned exploitation, and we focused solely on that and the
9:03
Speaker 1: grossness of it. And I'll just say, there's a quote
9:06
Speaker 1: in this story from a writer not from Rolling Stone.
9:10
Speaker 1: He goes on to be the editor of Rolling Stone.
9:12
Speaker 1: They're real serious, dude. I'm not going to burn his
9:14
Speaker 1: name here. And what he says in a review of
9:19
Speaker 1: a live runaway show about the band is Honestly, if
9:25
Speaker 1: I were writing this script for a Hollywood movie and
9:27
Speaker 1: I turned in this quote to depict the schewe rock
9:31
Speaker 1: guy from the nineteen seventies, it would get rejected because
9:34
Speaker 1: it's too over the top. It's hard to believe that
9:37
Speaker 1: it was even printed and it was printed by it
9:40
Speaker 1: Was it printed by Cream at the times that or
9:42
Speaker 1: was it printed by Crawdaddy. I think it was Crawdaddy.
9:45
Speaker 1: Actually know that I say.
9:46
Speaker 2: The even grosser thing, though, Jake, is that the more
9:49
Speaker 2: you dig into the research on this, that wasn't like
9:52
Speaker 2: an exception to the norm. That was like the that
9:56
Speaker 2: rock critics wrote at the time, and the way that
9:59
Speaker 2: women were were looked at and objectified, and it makes
10:02
Speaker 2: it even skeasier that they were all underage.
10:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we haven't mentioned that yet, I don't think,
10:06
Speaker 1: but you know, she was carry Chrome was fourteen years
10:09
Speaker 1: old when this was going on, and the other members
10:10
Speaker 1: of the band were like fifteen, sixteen, sixteen. Yeah, it
10:13
Speaker 1: just just it's unbelievable. It's truly shocking. It's truly revealing
10:19
Speaker 1: and revelatory and gross and just disgusting. So there's there's
10:23
Speaker 1: that which is criminal enough, right, and when we get
10:27
Speaker 1: into those crimes sex crimes, yep, but it's not the
10:31
Speaker 1: whole story. Give me more of the true crime backstory
10:34
Speaker 1: here to the Runways.
10:35
Speaker 2: I mean, you touched on another aspect of it, the
10:38
Speaker 2: in that reading from the script, which is this, you know,
10:41
Speaker 2: the transgressive, slash like illegal nature of the scene that
10:45
Speaker 2: they came out of, which was a scene where teenagers
10:47
Speaker 2: were partying with adult rock stars at clubs in La
10:50
Speaker 2: all the time, and then there's a there's a major
10:52
Speaker 2: bust in England when the entire band is arrested and
10:56
Speaker 2: thrown in jail, and then there's the life of crime
11:00
Speaker 2: that one member of the Runaways was forced to live
11:02
Speaker 2: later on when the band broke.
11:04
Speaker 1: Up, which is really sad.
11:06
Speaker 2: It is very sad because all she wanted was for
11:07
Speaker 2: the band to continue on forever, Yeah, and for that
11:10
Speaker 2: to be her thing, and then it was taken away
11:12
Speaker 2: from her and she had a really hard time coping
11:14
Speaker 2: with that.
11:14
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a fucking bummer. We're sort of unintentional
11:19
Speaker 1: music historians. We never really set out for this job,
11:25
Speaker 1: and we come to these stories with a ton of knowledge,
11:30
Speaker 1: both specific and general. And I knew the Runaway story loosely.
11:35
Speaker 1: I'd never read a book on the Runaways. I never
11:37
Speaker 1: I haven't seen the movie with.
11:40
Speaker 2: I didn't watch it either.
11:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes it's good to not watch the biopics because
11:45
Speaker 1: you don't want to fall in the same storytellingyway. But
11:47
Speaker 1: I knew enough. I knew enough about the Runaways. I
11:50
Speaker 1: knew a lot about the Runaways. But as is always
11:54
Speaker 1: the case, we try on our episodes to dig revealing
11:58
Speaker 1: facts out of the research that you guys might not
12:02
Speaker 1: know even if you are music historians yourself or music fans.
12:06
Speaker 1: So Zeth, give us. Give us one sort of like
12:08
Speaker 1: truly revealing kind of Oh man, I didn't know that
12:12
Speaker 1: fact or anecdote from this story.
12:14
Speaker 2: This one's kind of funny actually, the fact that Robert
12:18
Speaker 2: Plant of led Zeppelin was responsible for this arrest in England.
12:21
Speaker 2: I mean it was responsible in a way. I won't
12:24
Speaker 2: burn it here, but jone Jet definitely blamed him for
12:27
Speaker 2: what happens, and you can hear all about that in the.
12:29
Speaker 1: Episode, and you got to take the context. I'm not
12:32
Speaker 1: going to burn the story here either, but the context
12:34
Speaker 1: is super rich because the Runaways, you know, even though
12:37
Speaker 1: they had a moment, there's still they're still an obscure band,
12:41
Speaker 1: and they're paling around with Robert Plant, who's literally the
12:44
Speaker 1: biggest rock star on the planet at the time. So
12:47
Speaker 1: the sort of like fame and power imbalance here, and
12:51
Speaker 1: to think that Robert Plant is responsible for what happens
12:54
Speaker 1: to them in this situation is super annoying from jone
12:58
Speaker 1: Jet's perspective. Absolutely all right, So check that out. That's
13:02
Speaker 1: this Runaways episode is one of the first ones we're
13:04
Speaker 1: gonna be releasing in twenty twenty six. I'm excited for
13:07
Speaker 1: you guys to hear it. I'm excited for you to
13:10
Speaker 1: hear all the episodes we're releasing. We're you know, kind
13:13
Speaker 1: of looking at this seasonally, even though we're always on
13:17
Speaker 1: so you know, seasonally, we're talking about I guess, you know,
13:21
Speaker 1: ten twelve episodes per season. I don't even know what
13:24
Speaker 1: season we're on right now. It's like at twenty seven
13:26
Speaker 1: or something insane like that, something like that. Anyhow, we're
13:30
Speaker 1: gonna get back with the rest of the episodes and
13:31
Speaker 1: talk more about it and dive a little bit more
13:33
Speaker 1: behind the scenes right after this. Okay, Zeth Lundy, If
13:58
Speaker 1: I were to ask you which modern day female artists
14:02
Speaker 1: is the subject of one of the most thatshit crazy
14:06
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that you could actually conjure up, which female
14:11
Speaker 1: artist would you guess that was?
14:15
Speaker 2: There's one in the upcoming mini episode of The Runaways.
14:19
Speaker 2: The Runaways mini episode about jon Jet and a church
14:22
Speaker 2: that worships her supposedly. But even better than that, maybe
14:26
Speaker 2: that one about Beyonce and jay Z being like leaders
14:29
Speaker 2: of the Illuminati. There's all kinds of hidden symbolism in
14:32
Speaker 2: her work.
14:33
Speaker 1: That's not a conspiracy theory, that's actually true.
14:36
Speaker 2: So I'm glad we settled that here.
14:39
Speaker 1: No need to even talk about that. I'm kidding, I'm kidding,
14:45
Speaker 1: don't clip that. No, it's not Beyonce though, that is
14:48
Speaker 1: crazy and that that would actually make for a good episode.
14:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
14:51
Speaker 1: I have a hard time with conspiracy theorists who are
14:54
Speaker 1: just like I have friends like this. There's obviously you
14:58
Speaker 1: can't avoid these folks online who are just they're just
15:03
Speaker 1: always diving deeper into whatever the fucking YouTube portal wormhole is,
15:12
Speaker 1: but they're really like at most an inch deep on
15:17
Speaker 1: the actual research. You know what I mean, Right, You
15:20
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Yeah, I do. One crazy source
15:23
Speaker 1: does not make for a legitimate conspiracy theory. So on
15:28
Speaker 1: the one hand, I'm super annoyed by that. On the
15:32
Speaker 1: other hand, I'm equally annoyed by people who are just
15:36
Speaker 1: like who won't entertain any conspiracies because the pattern from
15:42
Speaker 1: history is so obvious that yesterday's conspiracies end up being
15:49
Speaker 1: today's historical record. It's happened over and over again, and
15:53
Speaker 1: I've talked about it so much so I'm not gonna
15:55
Speaker 1: do more of that. So I have these like twin annoyances.
15:58
Speaker 1: Right on the one hand, that can piracy theorists annoy
16:01
Speaker 1: the ship out of me. On the other hand, the
16:03
Speaker 1: people who just dismiss conspiracies annoy the ship out of me.
16:06
Speaker 1: Almost even more so. Those people always more annoying to me. Yeah,
16:10
Speaker 1: because it indicates a lack of curiosity, which to me
16:15
Speaker 1: is is right up there with like one of the
16:18
Speaker 1: most unattractive qualities a person can have is to just
16:21
Speaker 1: be to not be curious. I can't stand that. It's
16:25
Speaker 1: so boring. It's like, what are we gonna do? Just
16:27
Speaker 1: make small talk at the fucking kids football game? Or
16:31
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, what are we doing?
16:32
Speaker 1: I can't stand it. So okay, so hold on, I
16:36
Speaker 1: have a point here. There's a middle. There is a
16:39
Speaker 1: There is a middle that we don't explore enough where
16:46
Speaker 1: we should be able to look at conspiracies objectively and
16:50
Speaker 1: and try to pull apart whether or not they're true,
16:53
Speaker 1: and damn the ship out of them if they're if
16:55
Speaker 1: they're false, you know, and and to me, what is
16:58
Speaker 1: more interesting than the than the getting piece of it?
17:00
Speaker 1: Then the judgment piece of it. What's more interesting to
17:03
Speaker 1: me is like, why do these conspiracy theories take root?
17:06
Speaker 1: What is the root of it? Is it just for
17:08
Speaker 1: clicks or is it based in some sort of uh,
17:12
Speaker 1: some sort of cultural insecurity or fear or whatever. So
17:16
Speaker 1: the why of the conspiracy, even if the conspiracy is false,
17:20
Speaker 1: is as interesting to me, almost as interesting as if
17:24
Speaker 1: the conspiracy were true. Okay, So that's where I'm coming
17:28
Speaker 1: from with this story that we're going to do on
17:32
Speaker 1: one of the biggest female artists in pop music history
17:37
Speaker 1: who's still rocking right now. And my dog Dusty is
17:43
Speaker 1: a big fan, as you can hear, she's a big
17:45
Speaker 1: fan of Lady Gaga. All right, Okay, Okay, this conspiracy
17:52
Speaker 1: theory is completely messed up. And again let's let's just
17:57
Speaker 1: be super clear. I'm not saying that this conspiracy theory
18:00
Speaker 1: about Lady Gaga is true. We're simply looking into the
18:03
Speaker 1: theory in this episode. We're looking into why it's sprung out.
18:07
Speaker 1: We're looking into what the backstory is. And the backstory
18:10
Speaker 1: is incredible, and I'm a little shocked at how underreported
18:15
Speaker 1: this story is. I think if Lady Gaga was like
18:18
Speaker 1: twenty percent less famous, this would be a much bigger story.
18:22
Speaker 2: Okay, but well, wait a minute, hold on, I don't
18:25
Speaker 2: even know what this is all about. What's the story,
18:27
Speaker 2: what's the theory here?
18:28
Speaker 1: All right? Okay, all right, I don't even know where
18:31
Speaker 1: to start.
18:32
Speaker 2: You're like Joe Pesci and leath the Weapon three or two? Okay, okay, okay,
18:37
Speaker 2: all right, all right, okay.
18:40
Speaker 1: There have been online always these rumors about about Lady
18:44
Speaker 1: Gaga's origin story, where she came from as an artist. Okay.
18:49
Speaker 1: There's a woman named Yana Morgana, and she had a daughter,
18:53
Speaker 1: Lena Morgana, and Lena was Lena Morgana was friends with
18:57
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga back when Lady Gaga was starting out, and
19:01
Speaker 1: Yata Morgana claims that Gaga stole her whole trip from
19:07
Speaker 1: her daughter, Lena Morgana. Her Lady Gaga stole her musical style,
19:12
Speaker 1: her fashion, basically her entire artistic persona. Is the claim,
19:18
Speaker 1: not my claim, not my claim, to be clear, But
19:20
Speaker 1: I'm interested in this claim because back in two thousand
19:23
Speaker 1: and eight, at just nineteen years old, Lina Morgana killed
19:27
Speaker 1: herself Lady Gaga's friend. Okay. Now, there are people who
19:33
Speaker 1: don't believe that Lena Morgana killed herself. They actually believe
19:37
Speaker 1: that Lady Gaga killed Lina Morgana, And to be clear,
19:42
Speaker 1: I don't think that happened. I do not believe that,
19:47
Speaker 1: but this story won't die. It's a Reddit circus. There's
19:52
Speaker 1: a ton of wormholes. They're very big, and I'm fascinated. Again,
19:58
Speaker 1: I don't believe Lady Gaga killed anybody, but I remain
20:01
Speaker 1: open to the possibility that anything is possible, and I'm
20:04
Speaker 1: going to dive into the subject and see where it
20:07
Speaker 1: leads me. And we're either going to find out if
20:09
Speaker 1: it's true. Again, I don't think we're going to find
20:12
Speaker 1: out that it's true, right, or we're going to reveal
20:16
Speaker 1: We're going to reveal why the conspiracy is a conspiracy
20:19
Speaker 1: and where it came from, and the fascinating details around
20:21
Speaker 1: the conspiracy are what's honestly most interesting to me. There
20:24
Speaker 1: are some crazy similarities here and there are you know,
20:27
Speaker 1: when you look at what these people are claiming, they're
20:30
Speaker 1: actually not just it's not like this isn't like flat
20:33
Speaker 1: earth stuff, you know, it's actually it's rooted in How
20:40
Speaker 1: do I say this without sounding like a conspiracy theorist?
20:42
Speaker 1: See this is difficult, which is in part why I
20:44
Speaker 1: like it. The theory is rooted in some truths. Okay,
20:48
Speaker 1: that does not mean that the theory is true. There's
20:50
Speaker 1: two different things. And I want to objectively look at
20:54
Speaker 1: this and find out why this type of theory could
20:58
Speaker 1: even take root. And we're gonna do it all, of course,
21:02
Speaker 1: by doing what we do while giving our own biographical
21:05
Speaker 1: take on Lady Gaga as an artist. Lady Gaga is
21:08
Speaker 1: fascinating to me. As an artist. There's a lot of
21:11
Speaker 1: her music that I like. I don't consider myself a fan.
21:14
Speaker 1: I'm not, but you know, I hear stuff now and
21:17
Speaker 1: then I'm like, that's It's fucking great. As a person,
21:20
Speaker 1: She's always interested me because she's incredibly talented beyond I
21:26
Speaker 1: mean as an entertainer. You know what I'm saying. Oh yeah,
21:30
Speaker 1: of course I don't like Barbara Streisand's music, But Barbara
21:34
Speaker 1: Streisand comes on screen and I just go, oh shit, yeah,
21:38
Speaker 1: I'm watching this. This is great. Yeah, you know what
21:41
Speaker 1: I mean. And then I spend twenty minutes trying to
21:43
Speaker 1: figure out if it's Barbara Streisan or Bette Midler because
21:45
Speaker 1: I was confused to in my head you have to
21:50
Speaker 1: think those things from when you're a kid, where you
21:52
Speaker 1: just like you mix people up. You mix them up
21:54
Speaker 1: when you're five years old, and you can't stop mixing
21:56
Speaker 1: them up. Yeah, of course, of course I had a
21:58
Speaker 1: theory when I was a little kid. I remember I
22:00
Speaker 1: went to a new school in the fourth grade and
22:01
Speaker 1: it was connected to this barberstriis In and Bette Midler thing.
22:05
Speaker 1: I would group celebrities in my head. I would get
22:08
Speaker 1: them confused because they were similar to me for whatever reason.
22:11
Speaker 1: And then I went to this new school and I
22:12
Speaker 1: started to notice that these these kids looked just like
22:16
Speaker 1: kids at my old school. This is fourth grade, and
22:20
Speaker 1: I started to think, like, maybe we're just like breeds
22:24
Speaker 1: of dogs, you know, or maybe we're just like, you know,
22:27
Speaker 1: we're all kind of like, you know, you get your
22:29
Speaker 1: Boxers and get your Cocker Spaniels, and they're different dogs,
22:33
Speaker 1: different people, they all kind of look alike, you know
22:35
Speaker 1: what I mean, you know. And then it kind of
22:38
Speaker 1: evolved into like, well maybe that's what are That's that's
22:41
Speaker 1: you know what the supreme being who runs the algorithm
22:45
Speaker 1: has created just little little cohorts of people who all
22:49
Speaker 1: look the same and do the same thing anyhow, way
22:55
Speaker 1: off track, I don't actually believe that. People, is that
22:58
Speaker 1: this story that Gaga star reminds me of a couple
23:03
Speaker 1: of our past episodes, like the Nirvana episode. You know,
23:07
Speaker 1: talk about behind the scenes, it's the purpose of this
23:10
Speaker 1: the Nirvana episode. When I went into the research, I
23:13
Speaker 1: went into the research thinking, yeah, okay, there's a possibility
23:16
Speaker 1: that the Soaked and Bleach stuff and Courtney Love had
23:20
Speaker 1: something to do, which is you know, I was open
23:23
Speaker 1: to it, right right, And then I did the research
23:27
Speaker 1: and I was completely closed to it. It just didn't happen. People.
23:32
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I saw Soaked and Bleach. I've seen it.
23:35
Speaker 1: We have we have, uh literally a dossier of supposedly
23:40
Speaker 1: incriminating evidence on Courtney Love that isn't actually incriminating. There's
23:45
Speaker 1: too there's too much. And every time I talk about
23:48
Speaker 1: this it pisses people off and I get angry letters.
23:49
Speaker 1: But I don't care. I believe it in my core.
23:51
Speaker 1: I don't believe Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobaine, and and
23:54
Speaker 1: if I did believe it, I would say it. But
23:56
Speaker 1: the research doesn't point to that. And so I came
23:59
Speaker 1: out of that episode just feeling like I felt. Now. Conversely,
24:03
Speaker 1: I went into the Mamas and Papa's Charles Manson story
24:08
Speaker 1: and yeah, I was I didn't believe that Charles Manson
24:13
Speaker 1: was a CIA asset. And then I came out of
24:16
Speaker 1: that research and I one hundred percent now believe that
24:20
Speaker 1: Charles Manson was a CIA asset. I believe in the
24:23
Speaker 1: MK ultra theory because the research supports it. That's what
24:27
Speaker 1: I love about this job. You know, this is getting
24:32
Speaker 1: to a new place in our thinking based on the facts. Zeth,
24:35
Speaker 1: do you have examples of this from your research? I'm curious.
24:39
Speaker 1: We never literally never asked you this question before, and
24:41
Speaker 1: we talked, Sure you haven't every day?
24:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure you do. Let me know, Well,
24:46
Speaker 2: the first one that comes to mind is certainly the
24:48
Speaker 2: entire Wu Tang season that I researched and wrote. That
24:52
Speaker 2: ten episode season I knew a little bit about. I
24:54
Speaker 2: knew that the FBI had a file on them, just
24:56
Speaker 2: like the FBI has files on so many other musicians
24:59
Speaker 2: over here since the days of Jimmy Hendrix.
25:01
Speaker 1: Right.
25:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was shocked first of all to find
25:04
Speaker 2: out how deep it went that the FEDS were literally
25:06
Speaker 2: classifying the WU Tang Clan as a what they call
25:10
Speaker 2: a two point eighty one f which is a major
25:12
Speaker 2: criminal organization like they were the mafia, right. And then
25:16
Speaker 2: on top of that, there was this wild reporting from
25:18
Speaker 2: the Village Voice about one of the group's members being
25:21
Speaker 2: an FBI informant during that time. So obviously all that
25:25
Speaker 2: was kind of turned what I knew about this whole
25:28
Speaker 2: thing on its head, and it was incredible fodder for storytelling.
25:31
Speaker 2: And then the second one that comes to mind would
25:33
Speaker 2: be the one that I just recently researched and wrote,
25:36
Speaker 2: which is about how Johnny Thunders died, which is coming
25:39
Speaker 2: out next week.
25:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to get to that in just a second.
25:44
Speaker 1: The Wu Tang thing, I don't want to make this political,
25:47
Speaker 1: and I hope people don't take this as being political.
25:50
Speaker 1: The file on Wu Tang Clan is it's ridiculous that
25:55
Speaker 1: the government effort to surveil and watch Route clan is ridiculous,
26:02
Speaker 1: was ridiculous. It's a giant waste of money. Even if
26:06
Speaker 1: they were up to no good, it shouldn't have risen
26:08
Speaker 1: it shouldn't have rose to the level of the federal government,
26:11
Speaker 1: right And this, to me is just an example of
26:15
Speaker 1: what happens when you have you have people in positions
26:18
Speaker 1: of power who are just fucking bored and need something
26:21
Speaker 1: to do. You know what I'm saying, Like like literally,
26:25
Speaker 1: that's what this is. You know, Like how about at
26:27
Speaker 1: the time, dude, like looking into I don't know the
26:30
Speaker 1: ben Laden's there's some shit you might have, you know
26:32
Speaker 1: what I mean. And it just strikes me as as
26:38
Speaker 1: what happens when bureaucracy gets too fucking big and resources
26:43
Speaker 1: are misallocated. Because it's not like people sitting around the time,
26:47
Speaker 1: like the government is sitting around talking about conspiracy theories.
26:49
Speaker 1: The federal government, the FBI is sitting around like going, oh,
26:51
Speaker 1: let's get those hip hop guys. You know what I mean.
26:53
Speaker 1: It's some person who's bored trying to make a name
26:55
Speaker 1: for themselves, right. You know, well you shouldn't have that
26:58
Speaker 1: person bored on payroll in the first place, and this
27:00
Speaker 1: wouldn't happen. And it's just it continues to go on
27:03
Speaker 1: and it's frustrating and aggravating, Unlike the Johnny Thunders story,
27:08
Speaker 1: which we have coming up, which I think is the Yeah,
27:11
Speaker 1: that's the first episode that's coming up next week, Yeah,
27:13
Speaker 1: next week, and this one's connected to another, another myth.
27:17
Speaker 1: I don't want to say conspiracy. I will say myth,
27:19
Speaker 1: and we'll tell you about it in a second. Right
27:21
Speaker 1: after this, we'll be right back after this. We're we're,
27:26
Speaker 1: We're all right, Zeth Lundy, We are back and listen.
27:32
Speaker 1: There's a large contingent of music history nerds like ourselves
27:35
Speaker 1: who believe that Johnny Thunders from the New York Dolls
27:39
Speaker 1: was murdered. That came out wrong. Music history nerds like
27:43
Speaker 1: ourselves who believe that, not necessarily saying we believe that,
27:47
Speaker 1: but we heard about this and we wanted to dig
27:50
Speaker 1: into it, and we wanted to figure out, Okay, is
27:53
Speaker 1: this true? Is this not true? So, without giving away
27:56
Speaker 1: the whole story, what can you tell us about the
27:58
Speaker 1: New York Dolls, Johnny Thunders and his death. That's number one,
28:00
Speaker 1: Number two about your approach to writing this story.
28:04
Speaker 2: Okay, So, Johnny Thunders was found dead in a hotel
28:07
Speaker 2: room in New Orleans in nineteen ninety one. He was
28:09
Speaker 2: thirty eight. He struggled with addiction his whole life. So
28:13
Speaker 2: the cops basically took one look at the scene and
28:15
Speaker 2: said dead junkie. Case closed. But there were all these
28:19
Speaker 2: other factors surrounding the last day and night of his life,
28:22
Speaker 2: like he had literally just flown into town. I think
28:24
Speaker 2: he was in Europe or Asia before that touring. He
28:27
Speaker 2: flew into town that day. He met some local people
28:30
Speaker 2: that he didn't know. They went out, they partied. Some
28:33
Speaker 2: weird shit happened before and after his body was found.
28:36
Speaker 2: And because of this, and because the cops refused to
28:40
Speaker 2: look into any of this weird shit, people like Dede Ramone,
28:44
Speaker 2: who knew Johnny Well, began disseminating this counter narrative that
28:47
Speaker 2: he was didn't overdose, but that he was in fact
28:50
Speaker 2: murdered and the cops needed to look into this. And
28:52
Speaker 2: so I went into the research like excited to dig
28:55
Speaker 2: into this counter narrative because there's a lot of stuff
28:58
Speaker 2: out there about it from legit legit sourcing. So that's
29:02
Speaker 2: how I ended up writing this as I wrote it
29:04
Speaker 2: from the perspective that this counter narrative, this theory could
29:09
Speaker 2: be valid, And of course the fun part is how
29:12
Speaker 2: where it goes and how it ends, which is totally surprising,
29:15
Speaker 2: I think, and I think the listeners are really digging.
29:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one of the stories reminded me of
29:20
Speaker 1: a little bit of the sit in Nancy story where
29:21
Speaker 1: there was always this sort of like burbling in the
29:24
Speaker 1: scene about what actually happened and who was responsible and
29:28
Speaker 1: it wasn't really documented, and I thought, oh, this is
29:32
Speaker 1: similar again. I don't want to burn it here, but
29:35
Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating. Johnny Thunders is just quite literally the
29:39
Speaker 1: most rock and roll guy of all time, and the
29:42
Speaker 1: myth around his death he should have a myth surrounding
29:45
Speaker 1: his death, for sure, shoul. So we're going to get
29:49
Speaker 1: into that, and it's hard to talk about here without burning.
29:51
Speaker 1: And one thing, a little more behind the scenes thing
29:54
Speaker 1: that I'm storygling with with this episode is what we're
29:56
Speaker 1: going to do with the music. Because when we talk
30:02
Speaker 1: about punk artists or metal artists, or even rock or
30:07
Speaker 1: hard rock, there's a tendency and I learned this in
30:09
Speaker 1: the Guns N' Roses episode production to you know, use
30:14
Speaker 1: music that is that that sounds similar to what the
30:18
Speaker 1: artist was making. And for whatever reason, heavy music or
30:22
Speaker 1: at least like yeah, just just heavy guitar oriented music
30:26
Speaker 1: does not sound good in our production with vo it
30:31
Speaker 1: just doesn't work. Whereas electronic music, hip hop music, dominated beat,
30:36
Speaker 1: beat type music sounds fantastic. So it's like, like, we guys,
30:41
Speaker 1: we always try to do this thing where, you know,
30:44
Speaker 1: we've learned our lesson where we take the artists that
30:47
Speaker 1: we're talking about and we try to put them through
30:50
Speaker 1: the Massive Attack machine, which is, you know, okay, take So,
30:54
Speaker 1: so take the right way to score a Metallica episode
30:58
Speaker 1: is not to try to make music that sounds like Metallica.
31:01
Speaker 1: It's to take Metallica's influence and run it through the
31:05
Speaker 1: influence of Massive Attack. To always Massive Attack, because Massive
31:10
Speaker 1: Attack has this like super vibey electronic menace to it
31:16
Speaker 1: and it's just served us well. So there's no way
31:20
Speaker 1: we can make New York Dolls Johnny Thunder's style music work.
31:25
Speaker 1: And you know, I had this idea, like we should
31:28
Speaker 1: do something. You know, we've already kind of taken the
31:31
Speaker 1: New York Dolls music and run it through the Massive
31:32
Speaker 1: Attack thing in the New York Dolls episode. This is
31:36
Speaker 1: going to be part two. Johnny Thunders so thinking we
31:39
Speaker 1: should take New Orleans music because Johnny Thunders dies in
31:42
Speaker 1: New Orleans.
31:43
Speaker 2: Yea, we should take like, you know, he wanted to
31:45
Speaker 2: make a New Orleans record too.
31:47
Speaker 1: He wanted to take a make a New Orleans record
31:49
Speaker 1: to take you alentusson Doctor John that kind of New
31:52
Speaker 1: Orleans vibe and treat it with that menacing, massive attack
31:56
Speaker 1: thing for this for this episode, I think that could
31:59
Speaker 1: be cool, right, yeah for sure? Yeah, all right, well man,
32:02
Speaker 1: we'll fuck with that somehow. Or we could just use
32:05
Speaker 1: Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers sound of music and pissed
32:08
Speaker 1: Johnny Thunders off.
32:10
Speaker 2: People will get that joke when they hear the episode.
32:12
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, there's a heavy Tom Petty five and the
32:15
Speaker 1: Johnny thunders episode. That's not good all right.
32:18
Speaker 2: Uh.
32:19
Speaker 1: Murder is at the heart of all the episodes that
32:22
Speaker 1: we've discussed so far. One of the most requested episodes
32:27
Speaker 1: we've had since the show started was to do something
32:30
Speaker 1: on MIAs A Patta from the gets. I've alwayshed away
32:33
Speaker 1: from this story, similar to the Runaway story for a
32:36
Speaker 1: bunch of different reasons. We decided this year was the
32:40
Speaker 1: year we're going to tell the Miya Zapata story. Now, guys,
32:44
Speaker 1: what often happens is Beth and I aren't being lazy.
32:47
Speaker 1: We'll have editorial meetings around each episode where we'll get
32:51
Speaker 1: together and talk about, uh, you know what we know
32:55
Speaker 1: just you know, without any research, what we know of
32:56
Speaker 1: the artists, what we know of the crime, certain themes
33:01
Speaker 1: we might want to explore, things we know we want mentioned,
33:05
Speaker 1: and then we'll go off into the research and we'll
33:08
Speaker 1: pull it all together. And we used to meet after
33:10
Speaker 1: the research before recording. We don't even really do that anymore.
33:12
Speaker 1: We're just kind of we got it so dialed in.
33:15
Speaker 1: We haven't yet had that meeting on me as a
33:17
Speaker 1: PATA in the Gifts, and we figured that we'll do
33:20
Speaker 1: some of the editorial work, behind the scenes work here
33:22
Speaker 1: for you guys. Zesth. So you know we're going to
33:25
Speaker 1: have to do a call about this this week. And
33:26
Speaker 1: I said, no, wait, let's don't burn it. Let's do it.
33:29
Speaker 1: Let's do it when we tape this thing. So give
33:31
Speaker 1: me your questions on me as a Potter. We'll try
33:33
Speaker 1: to work our way through this real quick.
33:35
Speaker 2: Well, this is I'm just going to brain dump what
33:36
Speaker 2: I'm thinking here based on the research I've done. There's
33:38
Speaker 2: an obvious way to tell the story, right, and that's
33:41
Speaker 2: with me as a pod is brutal, shocking murder. You
33:44
Speaker 2: know what happened right after Stephanie Sargent of seven year
33:47
Speaker 2: Bitch died and then right before Kurt Cobain. But in
33:50
Speaker 2: a way it has this the bigger ripple effect in
33:54
Speaker 2: the nucleus of that music scene, the indie scene in Seattle.
33:58
Speaker 2: First of all, it tragically happened ray after the Gets
34:01
Speaker 2: went down to La met with Atlantic Records, and Atlantic
34:04
Speaker 2: was basically like, we're going to give you guys a deal.
34:06
Speaker 2: And then in the wake of this, a lot of
34:08
Speaker 2: bands in their circle broke up. There was a lot
34:11
Speaker 2: of paranoia and suspicion because all these guys in their
34:15
Speaker 2: in their crews and their bands were being brought in
34:17
Speaker 2: by the cops for questioning.
34:19
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, the investigation focused on her friends at first,
34:23
Speaker 1: who are all musicians in the Seattle music scene or
34:25
Speaker 1: connected to the Seattle music scene. That they weren't musicians.
34:28
Speaker 1: And it should be mentioned this is nineteen ninety three,
34:29
Speaker 1: this is the height of the grunge explosion, and me
34:33
Speaker 1: as a potter from the Gets was not like any
34:34
Speaker 1: just any old band. They were like a real band
34:37
Speaker 1: in the scene. They were friends with you know, Soundguard
34:39
Speaker 1: and mud Honey, Yes, all those folks. So it's you know,
34:43
Speaker 1: that's the backdrop here.
34:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that. Context, and so I think
34:46
Speaker 2: everyone kind of thought that it was somebody that they knew.
34:48
Speaker 2: And then when the murderer was I mean the murder
34:50
Speaker 2: was was wasn't caught for like ten years, and so
34:53
Speaker 2: when he finally was, it took everybody by surprise because
34:56
Speaker 2: they figured it was someone that that that MEA had known,
34:59
Speaker 2: someone that they all new. And there's this random dude
35:01
Speaker 2: who like split for Florida after it happened. This takes
35:04
Speaker 2: place in the very early years of DNA helping to
35:06
Speaker 2: solve a crime.
35:07
Speaker 1: Yeah.
35:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was taken at the crime scene, stored for
35:10
Speaker 2: years until it was able to be analyzed and added
35:13
Speaker 2: to the FBIS database. Now that all said, the other
35:17
Speaker 2: thing I wanted to point out Jake was that the
35:19
Speaker 2: drummer for the band for the Gets, Steve Moriarty. He
35:23
Speaker 2: just published a new book recently about the band and
35:25
Speaker 2: about Mia, and his primary motivation was that he was
35:28
Speaker 2: sick of hearing about MIA's murder. He was sick of
35:31
Speaker 2: having the tabloid nature of the crime overshadow the excellence
35:35
Speaker 2: of the group and Mia herself, and so he barely
35:38
Speaker 2: even touches on the murder in the book. It's more
35:40
Speaker 2: about her and about them, And so I think what
35:43
Speaker 2: I want to do with this episode, and that's this
35:45
Speaker 2: is what I want to talk to you about, is
35:47
Speaker 2: strike this balance between what is our bread and butter here,
35:50
Speaker 2: which is music and true crime, but also do it
35:52
Speaker 2: in a way that we're not sensationalizing it and that
35:54
Speaker 2: we're truly memorializing her for who she was. You know,
35:57
Speaker 2: so if like any of the guys in the gets
35:59
Speaker 2: happened to hear this episode, they would be like, oh, yeah,
36:01
Speaker 2: like these guys got it, they got it right.
36:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Because there is a documentary on her and
36:06
Speaker 1: there's like, you know, three of those sort of like
36:08
Speaker 1: you know, forty eight hours TV true crime things id TV,
36:14
Speaker 1: and I don't want to do anything like any of that.
36:17
Speaker 1: And I haven't seen the doc. You have seen the
36:21
Speaker 1: doc cause so you know, we need our own point
36:23
Speaker 1: of view on this that I want to take. And
36:27
Speaker 1: she's a fascinating character and I'm sure this will be
36:29
Speaker 1: in the book you're talking about because she was kind
36:32
Speaker 1: of like a double kid. She was a rich kid
36:34
Speaker 1: who or you know, at least you know, very upper
36:37
Speaker 1: middle class who grew up in that world of you know,
36:40
Speaker 1: tennis clubs, and whatever, and then.
36:42
Speaker 2: Her mom was like a TV high ranking TV executive
36:45
Speaker 2: who lived in like a penthouse apartment overlooking Central Park.
36:48
Speaker 1: I think, yeah. And then she ends up going to
36:50
Speaker 1: Seattle and lives sort of the I don't want to
36:53
Speaker 1: say grunge lifestyle, but the rock and roll kind of
36:57
Speaker 1: like like she lived it. I mean it was real. Yeah,
37:00
Speaker 1: and there's a you know, people will be like, oh,
37:02
Speaker 1: you're faking it or that's bullshit, that's you know, people
37:04
Speaker 1: are who they are. It doesn't matter where they come from, right,
37:07
Speaker 1: you could be whoever the fuck you want. And I
37:09
Speaker 1: mean that's the point of this Runaways episode too. But
37:13
Speaker 1: there's an interesting psychology there which would be cool to
37:16
Speaker 1: crack into, ye and to treat the rape and the
37:20
Speaker 1: murder with the sensitivity that it deserves. There's some really
37:26
Speaker 1: interesting things, guys. So normally when we would do this,
37:28
Speaker 1: I would point out to Zeth, like, Okay, here's some
37:30
Speaker 1: things that I know about this that I want represented
37:32
Speaker 1: in this if I'm not writing it. The medical examiner.
37:36
Speaker 1: So when she was killed, she was so badly abused
37:42
Speaker 1: that in just the body, they didn't know who she was.
37:47
Speaker 1: And it took a couple of days and the medical
37:49
Speaker 1: examiner was a fan of the gets and that's how
37:55
Speaker 1: the body was recognized. Like he actually was like, oh,
37:59
Speaker 1: it was somebody who worked in the medical examiner's office.
38:01
Speaker 1: If I remember incorrectly, he was like, oh, oh god,
38:04
Speaker 1: I know who this is.
38:06
Speaker 2: Oh I didn't haven't even turned that up in my
38:08
Speaker 2: research yet. That's fascinating. I'd look into that.
38:10
Speaker 1: I think that's a scene for sure. Maybe it opens
38:13
Speaker 1: with something like that, and there's just there has to
38:16
Speaker 1: be something like the theme. I don't know what themes
38:18
Speaker 1: we're going to get into, but it could be the
38:20
Speaker 1: theme or just a sub theme of the community rallying
38:24
Speaker 1: around her afterward. Because they did, they raised their own money,
38:30
Speaker 1: they hired a private investigator. I'm sure all that is covered,
38:33
Speaker 1: you know, ad nauseum, because it's obvious, but it needs
38:35
Speaker 1: to be mentioned. And then the other thing is I
38:40
Speaker 1: think sonically, what I want to do with it. They say.
38:43
Speaker 1: What I've read anyways, is that she was walking down
38:46
Speaker 1: the street like two am before she was attacked, and
38:48
Speaker 1: she didn't hear the killer coming because she had headphones on,
38:53
Speaker 1: and that's how the killer was able to get the
38:54
Speaker 1: drop on her. I think it would be cool if
38:58
Speaker 1: we do something in this episode where remember remember like
39:03
Speaker 1: old school sony headphones, like the little orange you know,
39:06
Speaker 1: cushiony things, and it's it doesn't seem to happen anymore
39:11
Speaker 1: with earbuds, but back then you could really hear when
39:14
Speaker 1: somebody was like pumping music. You know, if you're somebody's
39:16
Speaker 1: walking by these headphones, you could like hear them. You
39:18
Speaker 1: hear the bleed. We should do that in sonically, like
39:22
Speaker 1: make that audio device part of the score is that
39:27
Speaker 1: that headphone bleed and try to do like a hitchcocky
39:31
Speaker 1: and thing with that during the during the the lead
39:35
Speaker 1: up to the death. And I don't want to dramatize
39:40
Speaker 1: the death beyond that. I really I think your instincts
39:45
Speaker 1: are den on. We want to we want to make
39:47
Speaker 1: the spot her yep, yep. All right, so that's gonna
39:50
Speaker 1: be the me is a PoTA episode.
39:52
Speaker 2: Great, that's that's all great for me to go on.
39:54
Speaker 1: Perfect, all right, dope, guys, if you have any other
39:57
Speaker 1: thoughts on how we should treat this gets episode, get
40:00
Speaker 1: at us because we get a little time before we
40:01
Speaker 1: get into the production and let us know six one
40:04
Speaker 1: seven nine oh six six six three eight voicemail and
40:06
Speaker 1: text at Disgrace Lamppod on the socials or Disgrace Lampod
40:10
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com on email. We'd love your input
40:12
Speaker 1: and we'd love to include some of it if it's
40:14
Speaker 1: if it's relevant, makes sense for the story we decide
40:16
Speaker 1: we want to tell. All right, we're gonna take a
40:18
Speaker 1: quick break back right for this. All right, guys, we
40:40
Speaker 1: are back. Thanks for hanging with us in this sort
40:42
Speaker 1: of I know behind the scenes look at disgrace Land,
40:44
Speaker 1: I don't know what we're calling this, but that sounds
40:46
Speaker 1: good enough to me. I meant to get at us
40:49
Speaker 1: with any thoughts you have on any of these episodes
40:51
Speaker 1: as we're in pre production, if you want to lend
40:54
Speaker 1: your voice and lend your take, happy to hear it.
40:58
Speaker 1: In addition to the Runaways, Lady, Johnny Thunders, and Mia Zapata,
41:03
Speaker 1: next season, we're also releasing episodes on Hunter S. Thompson,
41:06
Speaker 1: which will be our last public release of a non
41:11
Speaker 1: music subject in Disgraceland. That experiment will officially be over.
41:16
Speaker 1: We're going to do a second episode on Inexcess because
41:20
Speaker 1: there's this way more there that we need to tell.
41:22
Speaker 1: Chrissy Hine from the Pretenders and Pete Dhugherty from The
41:26
Speaker 1: Libertines that those are all coming up in this next
41:29
Speaker 1: season of Disgrace. And finally we have this new concept
41:32
Speaker 1: that we're going to try out in Disgraceland as well
41:34
Speaker 1: this year. I've long been obsessed with murder ballads. You
41:38
Speaker 1: guys who know me, you know this, and I wanted
41:41
Speaker 1: to do this show forever, and we're going to look
41:45
Speaker 1: at one. It's a slightly askew look at music and
41:50
Speaker 1: true crime. It's not from the perspective necessarily of the artist,
41:54
Speaker 1: but it's from the perspective of the song. And much
41:57
Speaker 1: like we did in the Derek and the Dominoes episode
41:59
Speaker 1: with the Law and Family murder, we're going to look
42:02
Speaker 1: at in these, you know, at least one Disgraceland episode
42:06
Speaker 1: per month or so, we will look at one song
42:10
Speaker 1: that was either inspired by our true crime or inspired
42:14
Speaker 1: a true crime, and we'll look at the killer connected
42:18
Speaker 1: to that. So I think Talking Heads in the Son
42:20
Speaker 1: of Sam or Cookeye Billy Cook and Jim Morrison, or
42:27
Speaker 1: Charles Manson and Helter Skelter. We probably won't do that
42:29
Speaker 1: because we've done a lot of Manson content, but just
42:31
Speaker 1: there's this is endless fodder. This is unofficially being called
42:35
Speaker 1: dead notes, and these these will be like special features
42:39
Speaker 1: in Disgraceland that you guys are gonna get. All right, guys, listen,
42:42
Speaker 1: get us your subjects that you want us to cover
42:44
Speaker 1: six one seven nine oh six six six three eight
42:47
Speaker 1: voicemail texts at Gracelandpod on the social disgracelandpod at gmail
42:51
Speaker 1: dot com. Email let us know which artists you want
42:54
Speaker 1: us to cover. You guys are good at it, even
42:55
Speaker 1: doing it forever, keep doing it and we'll talk more
42:59
Speaker 1: about it in here. Also doing this thing over in Patreon,
43:01
Speaker 1: which if you're part of our ten dollars tier, you're
43:04
Speaker 1: going to in addition to getting this film should be
43:06
Speaker 1: played loud our new video podcast every month, you're also
43:11
Speaker 1: going to gain access to service these special twice yearly
43:16
Speaker 1: roundtables where we get on a zoom together and we
43:20
Speaker 1: formally discuss which episodes we're going to cover and we
43:24
Speaker 1: choose them, select them or select a large handful of them,
43:28
Speaker 1: so that way you will have you'll be guaranteed to
43:30
Speaker 1: have direct influence on the show, and some of that
43:34
Speaker 1: we'll take some of that content we create in during
43:36
Speaker 1: that process, and some of it will be reflected in
43:39
Speaker 1: these in these behind the scenes episodes that we're rolling
43:42
Speaker 1: out for you guys. So that's another way for you
43:44
Speaker 1: to be involved. Appreciate the involvement. Love the community we
43:47
Speaker 1: have guys. Thank you so much, Zeth. Thanks for your time, man.
43:50
Speaker 1: I know it's a busy time of year. Appreciate you
43:52
Speaker 1: digging in time. Guys. Thank you so much again. Thanks
43:56
Speaker 1: for supporting us on Patreon, on Apple Podcasts, just being
43:59
Speaker 1: fans of the show. Love you guys. Have a great
44:01
Speaker 1: day talk So all right, guys, thanks for rolling with
44:23
Speaker 1: us on a special episode of Disgraceland. Question of the
44:27
Speaker 1: Week this week is obvious What artists, which subjects do
44:30
Speaker 1: you want us to cover next? Get at a six
44:33
Speaker 1: one seven nine oh six six sixty three eight, voicemail
44:35
Speaker 1: and text. We'll dive deep into it in this week's
44:38
Speaker 1: after party. Get into some specifics, guys. If you're listening
44:42
Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts, make sure you have auto downloads turned on.
44:45
Speaker 1: Six one seven nine oh six six six three eight,
44:48
Speaker 1: voicemail texts at disgracelam pod on the socials. Here comes
44:52
Speaker 1: from credits. Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly and is
44:58
Speaker 1: produced in partnership with bub Elvis. Credits for this episode
45:02
Speaker 1: can be found on the show notes page at disgracelampod
45:05
Speaker 1: dot com. Rate and review the show and follow us
45:07
Speaker 1: on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and Facebook at disgracelampod and on
45:11
Speaker 1: YouTube at YouTube dot com slash at disgracelampod, Rock a
45:16
Speaker 1: Roller He the bed Down Man.