Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Tony Clark's resignation + insight into player's union & negotiations!

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Tony Clark's resignation + insight into player's union & negotiations! · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
0:11
Speaker 1: Jim Hayes alongside Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn. Now we
0:16
Speaker 1: need people's help with this, right we're trying to get
0:19
Speaker 1: to seven thousand subscribers. Okay, we got past six, but
0:24
Speaker 1: Aja presents. He said that he would send us all
0:26
Speaker 1: cupcakes if we could.
0:28
Speaker 2: Get to seven k.
0:29
Speaker 1: So reach out, hit that subscribe button and help us
0:33
Speaker 1: get cupcakes.
0:35
Speaker 3: Let's just get there so we don't have to hear
0:36
Speaker 3: that anymore. Right, let's get to seven.
0:38
Speaker 4: So we come on to seven.
0:42
Speaker 3: You won't ask for.
0:43
Speaker 2: Eight, eight, nine. I do what I'm told, all right,
0:47
Speaker 2: they tell me that, let's get to.
0:51
Speaker 4: Don't tell yourself, Jim, You're every worth of ten thousand followers.
0:56
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I've a yeah. Well that's.
1:00
Speaker 3: So.
1:00
Speaker 2: Whatever's going on at spring training right now?
1:02
Speaker 1: Who's in left field right or who's got the kickchains
1:06
Speaker 1: that they're going to show this year? But it kind
1:08
Speaker 1: of seems like small, small potatoes, right compared to what
1:13
Speaker 1: may be coming at the end of this season. The
1:17
Speaker 1: collective bargaining agreement expires, and shocking news this week is
1:23
Speaker 1: Players Union Executive director Tony Clark abruptly resigned, allegedly after
1:28
Speaker 1: an internal investigation revealed he was having an inappropriate relationship
1:32
Speaker 1: with his sister in law, among other things. Gross Bruce
1:37
Speaker 1: Meyer was like the interim executive director, So gentlemen. Aside
1:45
Speaker 1: from the personal details, Gross, no one knows what all
1:49
Speaker 1: the facts are. There's a lot more to it, because
1:55
Speaker 1: ten months or so from now, the players Union and
1:58
Speaker 1: the owners could be having the battle of all battles
2:02
Speaker 1: over getting.
2:04
Speaker 2: A collective bargaining agreement in place.
2:06
Speaker 1: I'm like question to you, I'll start with you last,
2:08
Speaker 1: because your headphones look extra snappy today. How at all
2:13
Speaker 1: does this impact the Players Union? When Tony Clark gets
2:19
Speaker 1: suddenly gone and do you have another guy replacing him
2:23
Speaker 1: on an interim basis, does this have impact?
2:27
Speaker 4: I mean, technically you're losing the guy who talks to
2:30
Speaker 4: the media for you. That's pretty much it in the
2:32
Speaker 4: way I see it, Bruce, all of the lawyers and
2:36
Speaker 4: everybody that would have been doing the negotiation and been
2:39
Speaker 4: doing all the heavy lifting, all the you know, the
2:42
Speaker 4: dirty work of going through all the proposals and in
2:45
Speaker 4: the past and stuff like that are still there. Now
2:48
Speaker 4: Bruce gets a you know, bigger seat at the table,
2:51
Speaker 4: I guess where he's talking more directly, But as Kyle
2:54
Speaker 4: and I know, on any call we've ever been on
2:57
Speaker 4: with the PA, or any meeting we've ever been at,
2:59
Speaker 4: Bruce has been there, and Bruce has spoken, and Bruce
3:02
Speaker 4: has been one of the main people we talked to.
3:05
Speaker 4: So when it comes to negotiations or player relations and
3:09
Speaker 4: anything like that, nothing really changes. You already have the
3:13
Speaker 4: plan in place, you already you have already talked to
3:16
Speaker 4: the players the last three to four years building into this.
3:20
Speaker 4: Everybody's seen this coming. Manford is not, you know, hidden
3:25
Speaker 4: the fact that this is what they're gonna do. He's
3:27
Speaker 4: already told them, told everybody we want to, we want to,
3:31
Speaker 4: we want to cap, and we're going to lock you out.
3:34
Speaker 4: That's already there, so get ready for that. So nothing's
3:36
Speaker 4: going to change in that boat. We've got our lead
3:38
Speaker 4: negotiator who's now the inner room head. So now our
3:42
Speaker 4: inn room head is going to be the lead negotiator
3:44
Speaker 4: at the same time. So that's gonna be that's going
3:47
Speaker 4: to be the only change. And you don't have Tony
3:49
Speaker 4: Clark talking to the media about negotiations that he wasn't
3:53
Speaker 4: in the room for that's pretty much it.
3:57
Speaker 1: Because because Tony Clark seemed like the bulldog for the players.
4:01
Speaker 1: Tell me, do you do you agree with Lance that
4:04
Speaker 1: this will have He's basically saying.
4:07
Speaker 2: Zero with bet.
4:09
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I think MLB will try to
4:12
Speaker 3: use this against the players and then we'll try to,
4:15
Speaker 3: you know, somehow frame a fracture or frame you know,
4:18
Speaker 3: whatever they want to frame to to see if they
4:21
Speaker 3: can get the players to break up. But I think
4:24
Speaker 3: Lance's is fairly spot on. You know, I got to
4:28
Speaker 3: know Tony well, and I think with the media there
4:32
Speaker 3: were things that he did well and there were things
4:35
Speaker 3: that he probably could have done a little bit better.
4:37
Speaker 3: That's probably all of us. But I think he was
4:41
Speaker 3: in a unique situation where as a former player, he
4:44
Speaker 3: had seen quite a few negotiations on CBA, so he
4:47
Speaker 3: could speak from a unique perspective in that regard. But
4:50
Speaker 3: like Lance said, you know, Bruce has been the lead
4:53
Speaker 3: negotiator and handling those situations with with the MLB side
4:58
Speaker 3: for you know, I think a couple of cycles. So
5:01
Speaker 3: I think, sure, it's unfortunate for the scrutiny to be
5:06
Speaker 3: coming out right now in spring training and this to
5:08
Speaker 3: be the story. But I mean, I still think in
5:12
Speaker 3: ten months, if that's what MLB wants to bring up,
5:15
Speaker 3: I think they're probably going to be focusing on the
5:18
Speaker 3: wrong thing, and that's probably a good thing for the
5:21
Speaker 3: for the players association of that is how MLB wants
5:24
Speaker 3: to scrutinize players. It'll be really interesting, I think to
5:28
Speaker 3: me over the next six seven months to hear MLB
5:32
Speaker 3: talk about when attendance is up and viewership is up
5:36
Speaker 3: and the games in a strong state, then to talk
5:40
Speaker 3: about major changes. Because we've gone over this, I think
5:43
Speaker 3: major changes are very interesting to bring up in the
5:46
Speaker 3: state of the gamehou it is right now with it
5:49
Speaker 3: being so strong and things going well. But you know,
5:51
Speaker 3: we've talked about competitive side, we've talked about what the
5:54
Speaker 3: salary cap can try to bring, but who knows what
5:57
Speaker 3: their end goal is other than cost certainty and in
6:01
Speaker 3: their mind, competitive balance, which they're supposed to fix with
6:04
Speaker 3: the competitive balance tax. I don't understand what all they're
6:08
Speaker 3: trying to accomplish, but who knows. I think on the
6:11
Speaker 3: player side, though, in the interims, in the interim time,
6:14
Speaker 3: brust will be fine and the players are be able
6:16
Speaker 3: to move forward.
6:18
Speaker 1: So from what you hear from the owner side is
6:22
Speaker 1: salary cap is sort of not coming off the table?
6:27
Speaker 2: What do you hear on lance?
6:29
Speaker 4: I mean, that's their main their main thing. The question
6:31
Speaker 4: is is is salary cap what they're going to what
6:34
Speaker 4: they're really after? Right? You know they would love that.
6:37
Speaker 4: They've been talking about wanting for years and the players
6:39
Speaker 4: have for years to say that's not what we're about.
6:43
Speaker 4: So the question is, what's the next phase of things.
6:45
Speaker 4: Do they want to eliminate for the players, whether it's oh,
6:49
Speaker 4: we want to put a cap on international signing, Do
6:52
Speaker 4: we want to have an international draft uh instead of
6:56
Speaker 4: the cap, or do you know whatever their their bonus
6:58
Speaker 4: bull is now so they put a draft on it.
7:00
Speaker 4: Are they going to make the draft smaller? Or are they
7:02
Speaker 4: going to eliminate minor league teams? Are they going to
7:05
Speaker 4: go after you know, different years of control and stuff
7:09
Speaker 4: like that to try to get you to think that
7:12
Speaker 4: cap systems the best way to go. But when we
7:15
Speaker 4: keep talking about this cap system, not one time as
7:17
Speaker 4: anyone talked about the floor. You can't have a cap
7:20
Speaker 4: until you know what the floor is, and the floor
7:22
Speaker 4: can't be below one hundred million dollars and you're going
7:24
Speaker 4: to have ten to twelve teams that have to come up,
7:28
Speaker 4: where you're only going to have to have what four
7:30
Speaker 4: teams come down. So I'm anxious to see these mid market,
7:34
Speaker 4: small market teams have to spend one hundred and fifty
7:37
Speaker 4: plus million dollars because it's part of the cap. Like
7:39
Speaker 4: the NBA and then fl they have to be above
7:42
Speaker 4: a certain cap number compared to whatever the cap is,
7:46
Speaker 4: or a floor number to hit the to be what
7:49
Speaker 4: the cap is. So they've not negotiated any of those
7:52
Speaker 4: or talked about any of those. They've not talked about
7:54
Speaker 4: getting a free agency faster like other leagues. They've not
7:57
Speaker 4: talked about minimums being higher like other leagus league, so
8:00
Speaker 4: they've not talked about any of these things that other
8:02
Speaker 4: league have that have cap systems that they are have
8:06
Speaker 4: been devaluing players in the baseball world for years. So
8:10
Speaker 4: I'm anxious to see what they're able to, what they're
8:12
Speaker 4: what they really want and or what they're able to
8:15
Speaker 4: really let go of player control. When you get drafted,
8:19
Speaker 4: you have what four years so you can be on
8:21
Speaker 4: a roster, then you have three more years of options,
8:26
Speaker 4: and then you have three more years till your arbitration
8:28
Speaker 4: three more years till you can get the free agency.
8:30
Speaker 4: It's a lot of control they're gonna have to give
8:32
Speaker 4: up for a cap.
8:34
Speaker 1: So competitive balance parody is the goal of the owners.
8:39
Speaker 1: And Kyle Gibson up over the many episodes, has accused
8:42
Speaker 1: me of not being prepared. But Kyle, as I would call,
8:46
Speaker 1: you're saying, look at the parody and look at the.
8:48
Speaker 2: Balance MLB has. So I have those champions last ten seasons.
8:53
Speaker 1: MLB is at seven different champions NFL six finals, last
8:59
Speaker 1: ten seasons MLB. This is final round, not the championship.
9:03
Speaker 1: MLB thirteen, NFL nine. So it looks like parody's there.
9:07
Speaker 1: But Kyle, what would you like to see? You're a
9:09
Speaker 1: level headed guy and suddenly you're an advisor, you have
9:14
Speaker 1: no skeletons and you don't know skeletons in your plast
9:21
Speaker 1: as far as I know, And they go, Kyle, what
9:24
Speaker 1: should we do?
9:25
Speaker 2: Help us with this? And then the last glance.
9:28
Speaker 3: To first thing. I don't think for a minute that
9:34
Speaker 3: they are just worried about competitive bounds. Okay, that is
9:37
Speaker 3: not that's the trojan horse that this salary CAP's gonna
9:40
Speaker 3: ride in. All right, this is I just don't because
9:42
Speaker 3: I don't believe there's a problem there. We're talking about
9:46
Speaker 3: just now, a salary cap. The Yankees won four out
9:49
Speaker 3: of five World Series just twenty years ago and nobody
9:52
Speaker 3: said anything. All right, So here we are. We get
9:54
Speaker 3: one repeat champion for the first time in twenty five years,
9:58
Speaker 3: and the salary cap talk is so necessary. All right. So,
10:01
Speaker 3: like you said, there's so much parody, But who makes
10:04
Speaker 3: the playoffs, who makes the Championship series, who makes the
10:08
Speaker 3: World Series? Parody is above all the other leagues. So
10:12
Speaker 3: I just don't believe it. I think Lance makes a
10:16
Speaker 3: good point with the floor for sure. The other thing
10:19
Speaker 3: here is I think at times in the last couple
10:21
Speaker 3: of Cbas and Tony Clark, this is one thing that
10:23
Speaker 3: I feel like he could have done a little better.
10:25
Speaker 3: Is as soon as MLB says something they want to
10:28
Speaker 3: talk about, like salary cap, it's slammed. The door shut.
10:31
Speaker 3: No way, we're not hearing it. Here we go. This
10:34
Speaker 3: is a fight, all right. Just because you say send
10:38
Speaker 3: us your terms doesn't mean you're agreed. Just because you
10:41
Speaker 3: say we'll entertain it doesn't mean you're agreed. There's a
10:46
Speaker 3: lot that has to go into CBA talks. If a
10:49
Speaker 3: salary cap is coming into play, what are the revenue
10:52
Speaker 3: streams that are going to be allowed? The players need
10:54
Speaker 3: to see the books to see what's involved. How are
10:57
Speaker 3: we going to structure contracts or orient in places that
10:59
Speaker 3: are long term deals that are gonna survive this next CBA.
11:03
Speaker 3: So many discussions have to happen. But in the meantime,
11:06
Speaker 3: we haven't even heard what MLB would be willing to
11:09
Speaker 3: give up in order to get a salary cap. Okay,
11:12
Speaker 3: because the salary floor is not the thing to give up, right,
11:15
Speaker 3: MLB is going to have to give up something. We'll
11:17
Speaker 3: say free agency goes from six to four years. Right,
11:20
Speaker 3: It's gonna have to be something drastic for players to
11:23
Speaker 3: even entertain to even open the books and look, why
11:27
Speaker 3: don't we just sit back and let cooler heads prevail here,
11:31
Speaker 3: don't do a knee jerk reaction, and just let MLB
11:34
Speaker 3: share what they're willing to give up, because I think
11:37
Speaker 3: that is the biggest thing that players have to look at.
11:39
Speaker 3: Do I think a salary cap should be imposed?
11:41
Speaker 1: No?
11:42
Speaker 3: Is it something that players should agree to on any terms?
11:45
Speaker 3: Possibly not. But we don't even know what MLB is
11:49
Speaker 3: willing to give up in order to get it. So
11:52
Speaker 3: sometimes just sit back and let the other side talk
11:55
Speaker 3: and see what they're willing to do.
11:57
Speaker 4: See I'm saying, I'm a second that.
12:00
Speaker 3: How's that for level headed? Jim?
12:03
Speaker 4: All Right?
12:05
Speaker 2: The main my main thing is I want to see baseball. Okay.
12:09
Speaker 1: I also understand that fans like the Cardinals are going
12:12
Speaker 1: through a rebuild. It's a rebuild, so they're not gonna
12:15
Speaker 1: spend as much. I know they took a big haircut
12:18
Speaker 1: because I'm not good at my job, so with the
12:20
Speaker 1: broadcast rights, you know, and stuff like that.
12:23
Speaker 2: I get on that.
12:24
Speaker 1: But look at other cities where they haven't won and
12:26
Speaker 1: they're not gonna win, and the owners don't spend money,
12:29
Speaker 1: and they they jump into an ownership and they know
12:32
Speaker 1: the value of the team is gonna keep going up.
12:34
Speaker 2: So I understand what you guys are saying.
12:36
Speaker 1: But Lance, so how do you how do you reconcile
12:40
Speaker 1: the differences between the two sides. I'd love to see
12:43
Speaker 1: a floor. I don't think there has to be a ceiling.
12:46
Speaker 1: They want a ceiling. So where is the middle ground?
12:48
Speaker 1: Help us, Lance be the guy that can solve this problem.
12:52
Speaker 4: Well, let's be honest, if you're gonna have a floor,
12:54
Speaker 4: you have to have a top. Like that's just there's
12:56
Speaker 4: no you can't build the house without it. Jim, you
12:58
Speaker 4: know that when they when the Cardinals tore down to
13:00
Speaker 4: the studs, they went down to the ground level. Now
13:03
Speaker 4: they're trying to go back up and find a roof.
13:06
Speaker 4: But that's, you know, is what it is. But Kyle
13:09
Speaker 4: mentioned this, they've yet to open their books and they've
13:12
Speaker 4: yet to be authentic with what they would call the
13:16
Speaker 4: revenue sharing pool and what they call revenue sharing. Like,
13:20
Speaker 4: let's I mean, it's simple, Cardinals owned Ballpark Village, they
13:26
Speaker 4: owned the hotel that was the site of the old
13:28
Speaker 4: stadium that they bought when they bought the team. But
13:31
Speaker 4: that's not revenue that you got from the team. How's
13:34
Speaker 4: that not revenue? I understand certain things, But when you
13:37
Speaker 4: buy that land with the team, the city builds you
13:40
Speaker 4: a new stadium and you get all the revenue from
13:42
Speaker 4: that spot that you bought with the team and you
13:45
Speaker 4: own it, that's team revenue in my opinion. But I
13:48
Speaker 4: can see the argument for the other side, and that's
13:50
Speaker 4: a different business blah blah blah. But you wouldn't have
13:53
Speaker 4: that business if you didn't own the team. So the
13:56
Speaker 4: teams are not the vulgeam all of their money that
14:00
Speaker 4: they bring in, right, The league isn't telling us, hey,
14:04
Speaker 4: we've got these three media or TV deals on the
14:07
Speaker 4: books for whenever the lockout's over in the strike or
14:10
Speaker 4: you know, the lockout's over and we're good to go,
14:12
Speaker 4: and that's just more media and then this and that.
14:15
Speaker 4: So they've got all these things that they're hiding, and
14:17
Speaker 4: then they're also not going to you know, when you
14:19
Speaker 4: say no to a cap, yeah, that ends the thing.
14:22
Speaker 4: But it's like, hey, like Kyle said, there's so many
14:25
Speaker 4: different things that have to change for it to be
14:29
Speaker 4: fair for the players that they're not even entertaining conversations
14:33
Speaker 4: at this point or sending things over because they want
14:36
Speaker 4: there to be a lockout. They want it to be
14:38
Speaker 4: the player's fault. They want these things because it's like, hey, well,
14:41
Speaker 4: you don't want a cap. You don't want parody. We
14:43
Speaker 4: have more parody than any other sport technically, so you
14:47
Speaker 4: just don't want to show us your books. You want
14:48
Speaker 4: to have a you just want to have a cap
14:50
Speaker 4: without giving anything for it is what it looks like
14:52
Speaker 4: right now, and that's the way that the players should
14:56
Speaker 4: put it out there. It's like, hey, show us all
14:58
Speaker 4: the things you'll give us for a cap, and well,
15:01
Speaker 4: you know, and then we'll be you know, we'll let
15:02
Speaker 4: you know what we think of it. But they're going
15:04
Speaker 4: to have to give up so much to get a
15:06
Speaker 4: cap for it to even be fair for the players
15:08
Speaker 4: that I don't think MLB will want to do it
15:10
Speaker 4: when it gets down to it.
15:12
Speaker 3: And right, in my mind is how the players. That
15:14
Speaker 3: in my mind, Jim, sorry, that in my mind is
15:17
Speaker 3: how the players can somewhat fight the media narrative. Is
15:22
Speaker 3: you can't fight the media narrative if you won't talk
15:24
Speaker 3: and have a conversation. You can fight the media narrative
15:27
Speaker 3: if you say, hey, tell us what you're willing to
15:29
Speaker 3: negotiate this negotiation, what chips are you giving us? If
15:33
Speaker 3: we give you this one instead of closing the door medialy,
15:36
Speaker 3: then the lockout looks like the government shutdowns that we
15:39
Speaker 3: have and then just one side is doing it all
15:41
Speaker 3: Like no, if if it's going to be a lockout,
15:44
Speaker 3: it's going to because the players have asked for what
15:46
Speaker 3: they have to give up. The owners are showed what
15:48
Speaker 3: they're going to give up, and then you have a
15:50
Speaker 3: conversation about it. If you close the door before you
15:52
Speaker 3: get there, you have no idea.
15:55
Speaker 1: Pro common ground, I'm pro negotiation. I'm also pro marched.
16:00
Speaker 1: And if you like Cardinal Territory. Did you like that segue?
16:04
Speaker 1: Do you like Cardinal Territory? We had merch We got
16:07
Speaker 1: T shirts, we got the caps, we got the hoodies, Holeballawax,
16:12
Speaker 1: great merchandise. All you gotta do is go to Cardinal
16:16
Speaker 1: Territory shop dot com. So I wanted to ask you
16:20
Speaker 1: guys about the inner workings of the relationship between players
16:25
Speaker 1: and the players' union rank and file.
16:27
Speaker 2: Okay, you guys are veterans, you've been around this.
16:31
Speaker 1: You're a young player. I know Tony Clark was supposed
16:33
Speaker 1: to go to his tour of all the spring training camps.
16:38
Speaker 1: How often as a player were you in contact with
16:42
Speaker 1: the union, Like, for example, I know the cards Michael
16:45
Speaker 1: McGreevy is their union rep.
16:46
Speaker 2: But I'm talking about the rank and file. How does
16:48
Speaker 2: that work?
16:50
Speaker 3: Kyle? I mean, well, you have one rep technically, and
16:56
Speaker 3: then anybody can be an alternate. So Lance and I
16:58
Speaker 3: worked together in twenty twenty for a little bit on
17:01
Speaker 3: some of that during COVID. I mean, I think it's
17:05
Speaker 3: been great. The more young players that you have involved.
17:08
Speaker 3: You know, hopefully there's some guys like Stank and Dustin
17:12
Speaker 3: May and you know, some of these other veterans that
17:15
Speaker 3: have to think about some of the guys that have
17:17
Speaker 3: there to make sure that they can help McGreevy through
17:19
Speaker 3: some of this. He's never been through a CBA, so
17:22
Speaker 3: you want to have someone who's an alternate act to say, hey, Mike, uh,
17:25
Speaker 3: this is how we need to say, this is what
17:26
Speaker 3: we're thinking as a club. But I think McGreevey's a
17:30
Speaker 3: really smart guy. He'll be fine. You know, Tony makes
17:33
Speaker 3: his rounds in spring. Rob Manform makes his rounds in spring.
17:37
Speaker 3: You normally saw Rob at least once in the middle
17:40
Speaker 3: of a season, uh, and he would come into a
17:43
Speaker 3: locker room. Everybody heard about the Bryce Harper story from
17:46
Speaker 3: last year. I haven't seen anything escalate to that. In
17:51
Speaker 3: my time in the locker room with Rob. I've seen
17:55
Speaker 3: some interesting conversations, you know, in this for instance, in
18:00
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, when the pitchclock came in that he
18:02
Speaker 3: came into the Oriol's locker room and was just raving
18:05
Speaker 3: about all the attendants and raving about, you know, how
18:08
Speaker 3: stronger the state of the game was. And you know,
18:10
Speaker 3: the attendance in Baltimore was essentially because the pitchclock made
18:12
Speaker 3: it so much fun for people to be there. Had
18:14
Speaker 3: nothing to do with that. The Baltimore Oils were out
18:16
Speaker 3: performing all of our expectations for twenty twenty three is
18:20
Speaker 3: because the pitchclock made it a great game to watch.
18:23
Speaker 3: Just some of those things are you know, you kind
18:25
Speaker 3: of roll your eyes out a little bit, like Rob,
18:27
Speaker 3: you can read the room here. You're standing in a
18:29
Speaker 3: locker room that is over overperforming and has high attendance
18:33
Speaker 3: because we're playing really well. And there's just times where
18:36
Speaker 3: he didn't necessarily have that. He did come in and
18:41
Speaker 3: sit in the starting pitcher's chair that day as well.
18:44
Speaker 3: That was interesting. Lance would have loved that, I'm sure
18:48
Speaker 3: had he been the starting pitcher that day. But that
18:51
Speaker 3: was that was kind of like he just didn't understand, right,
18:54
Speaker 3: like starting pitcher walks in and here's Rob Manford sitting
18:57
Speaker 3: in the middle of the locker and talked to everybody
18:59
Speaker 3: in his chairs the one that Rob is using. But
19:03
Speaker 3: it's just he always talked to him. You saw him
19:05
Speaker 3: every year springing in the season, and he tried to
19:08
Speaker 3: make peace, try to have those conversations to see if
19:11
Speaker 3: he could really kind of put a person to the
19:13
Speaker 3: to the name, because Commissioner of Baseball is a name
19:16
Speaker 3: and title, and he tried to have that relationship. So
19:19
Speaker 3: kudos to him. I've talked to him a couple times
19:20
Speaker 3: out of the locker room. Seems like he is a
19:22
Speaker 3: decent guy, really wants to work on things, and I
19:25
Speaker 3: think some of the tough guy, bulldog when he gets
19:28
Speaker 3: in negotiations just because he understands he has a job
19:30
Speaker 3: to do for the thirty, for the thirty clubs as well.
19:33
Speaker 1: Let's tell me a story about a commissioner or a
19:37
Speaker 1: union rep. Then you didn't like what they were doing,
19:41
Speaker 1: and you let them know about it, say in a
19:43
Speaker 1: clubhouse or.
19:44
Speaker 2: Something like that, just for the fun.
19:46
Speaker 4: I think I ever let anyone know it in a clubhouse.
19:49
Speaker 4: But Tony and I had one on one conversations. I've
19:52
Speaker 4: had one on one conversations with Bruce letting know some
19:57
Speaker 4: things that I didn't enjoy it. Kyle and I went
19:59
Speaker 4: through the covid H experience together. That was different, totally different.
20:06
Speaker 4: For everybody, and there was a lot of a lot
20:09
Speaker 4: of moving parts in that that. You know, we saw
20:12
Speaker 4: a lot of things that I think, I think they've
20:14
Speaker 4: changed a little bit for the better in the in
20:16
Speaker 4: the Union, and I think that time at the time
20:19
Speaker 4: probably could have split us more than any time I've
20:22
Speaker 4: ever seen. But uh, and all in all, the Union
20:25
Speaker 4: did a great job of rallying and bringing guys together
20:28
Speaker 4: even better after it. So you know, for me, when
20:36
Speaker 4: I you know, I came into the game when when
20:38
Speaker 4: Sea League was the commissioner, So he's my commissioner in
20:41
Speaker 4: my opinion. So that's the way I look at it.
20:44
Speaker 4: Manford was, you know, underneath him when he came in,
20:47
Speaker 4: and he's kind of taken over and done his own thing.
20:50
Speaker 4: I think some of his things are you know, good
20:53
Speaker 4: for the game, and I think some of those things
20:54
Speaker 4: are just sometimes ways for him to hear himself speak.
20:58
Speaker 4: And that's kind of how it goes when you're in
21:01
Speaker 4: those positions. You got to kind of you know, navigate
21:03
Speaker 4: all the all the all the different things. But I've
21:07
Speaker 4: never outwardly yelled at anyone in a clubhouse in a
21:11
Speaker 4: Union and or uh, you know, in the in Manford's office.
21:19
Speaker 4: I don't think how you use the word outwardly.
21:21
Speaker 3: Outwardly is the keyword there.
21:23
Speaker 1: Right never Yeah, A little disappointed by that, to be
21:27
Speaker 1: honest with you.
21:28
Speaker 4: Last we point across in other ways, Jim, Okay.
21:32
Speaker 1: I understand that one other thing before we we call
21:37
Speaker 1: it an episode, Kyle.
21:40
Speaker 2: Everyone's talking about because of.
21:42
Speaker 1: The whole thing with with what happened with the flavored
21:47
Speaker 1: of Union executive director Tony Clark.
21:50
Speaker 2: Do you see a work stoppage happening?
21:52
Speaker 1: Give me a percentage, like I'm just looking for a
21:55
Speaker 1: brass text percentage that there will be a work stoppage
21:59
Speaker 1: after this season.
22:02
Speaker 3: Jim, I am a die hard optimist, fault just. I
22:08
Speaker 3: will die on the optimism. I will die on the
22:11
Speaker 3: optimism hill as much as I can. I'm gonna say
22:15
Speaker 3: seventy five baseball happens, twenty five a dozen. I think
22:21
Speaker 3: it's going to be another year of the game growing.
22:27
Speaker 3: I think it it will be very interesting to see
22:30
Speaker 3: how MLB streaming does. If MLB streaming does well for
22:34
Speaker 3: these teams and those revenues trend in the right direction,
22:39
Speaker 3: I think there's even a less chance that there's work
22:41
Speaker 3: stoppage because I just think at some point, cooler heads
22:45
Speaker 3: have to prevail here. And you know, if if the
22:48
Speaker 3: salary cap hill is something that they're going to die
22:51
Speaker 3: on in this cycle, then maybe there's nothing we can
22:54
Speaker 3: do about it, or they can do about it, because
22:56
Speaker 3: thank I'm gonna be sitting on my couch watching it
22:58
Speaker 3: all and talking to you guys about it. But I
23:01
Speaker 3: just think they're gonna look at each other and say, man,
23:04
Speaker 3: what are we trying to accomplish?
23:06
Speaker 2: Uh?
23:07
Speaker 3: Maybe this is not the time. So hopefully that's how
23:10
Speaker 3: it goes.
23:11
Speaker 1: That's smart rational analysis, optimistic twenty five percent, Lance twenty
23:17
Speaker 1: five percent. He says that the chance of a work
23:21
Speaker 1: stop page twenty five.
23:23
Speaker 4: What would you say, Well, my question to you is
23:26
Speaker 4: does a lockout count as work stoppage? Yeah, it's just
23:31
Speaker 4: a game. There's one hundred percent going to be a lockout?
23:35
Speaker 4: Correct percout that he's saying that, now, how many games
23:39
Speaker 4: are going to be missed? There's gonna be.
23:40
Speaker 2: Games missed, that's all.
23:41
Speaker 4: One question that you have to ask, is there going
23:43
Speaker 4: to be one hundred percent of games missed? Or is
23:45
Speaker 4: it going to be like, hey, we're going to get
23:46
Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty in because that's the number that
23:48
Speaker 4: we need for TV money.
23:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, I so, Jim, that's that is definitely the difference here, right,
23:54
Speaker 3: Like when December second hits and there's no agreement, it
23:57
Speaker 3: will be the owners locking the players out of silks,
24:00
Speaker 3: not a workstoppers. Workstoppers won't come until March twenty sixth,
24:03
Speaker 3: when the players don't show up to play, so not
24:05
Speaker 3: even spring training. So when games start being missed, that's
24:09
Speaker 3: when the players have to go.
24:10
Speaker 1: Talking about games. I'm talking about games be a mess.
24:12
Speaker 1: And I think Lance has talked about it before, you've
24:15
Speaker 1: talked about it. There's a magic number on when the
24:18
Speaker 1: losses for ownership will grow because the playoff money from
24:24
Speaker 1: TV is in jeopardy, right, that's the that's the magic number,
24:27
Speaker 1: right if the players.
24:29
Speaker 4: We know that, if the players had a real big pair,
24:33
Speaker 4: they would strike after the season and tell them the
24:35
Speaker 4: f the playoffs. This year that was show them what's up.
24:42
Speaker 3: Com twenty twenty gave us a really good look at
24:51
Speaker 3: what revenues do for baseball and what the playoffs mean
24:56
Speaker 3: to Major League Baseball. And I think the players can
24:59
Speaker 3: use that not as leverage, but they can use that
25:02
Speaker 3: as a part of their sleeve, understanding that the whole
25:05
Speaker 3: time they wanted to play sixty games in twenty twenty
25:08
Speaker 3: and that's it because then they knew the playoffs would
25:11
Speaker 3: make their money back and be in the black. So
25:15
Speaker 3: they know that. Now the TV deals is something that
25:18
Speaker 3: we don't know all those contracts, but if there's a
25:20
Speaker 3: game number on there that they have to get all
25:22
Speaker 3: those that will be the amount of games that probably
25:26
Speaker 3: get missed if I had a guess, But I'm hoping
25:29
Speaker 3: that they're zero, because I think everybody wins if you
25:32
Speaker 3: have one hundred and sixty two.
25:34
Speaker 1: All the matters is the fans, right, because they're the
25:38
Speaker 1: ones picking up the cost for all of it, so
25:41
Speaker 1: you don't want to take them off, gentlemen.
25:43
Speaker 2: A wonderful discussion. I actually learned a lot.
25:46
Speaker 1: Disappointed that Lance didn't go after a commissioner or a
25:50
Speaker 1: union ref in a clubhouse.
25:52
Speaker 2: But I'm a proud of you, Lance. What's that?
25:57
Speaker 4: I think it was on a zoo. Wouldn't they go?
26:00
Speaker 3: You know it wasn't in person, Yeah, it wasn't in person. Uh,
26:04
Speaker 3: you know in COVID. Yeah, the social distance digitally as well.
26:08
Speaker 3: So we want of zoom calls that that we heard,
26:11
Speaker 3: heard Lance's, Lance's opinions, Oh gray area.
26:16
Speaker 1: There, good gentlemen, thank you, we appreciate it. And that's
26:18
Speaker 1: going to do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory.
26:22
Speaker 1: We'll see everybody next time with a brand new edition
26:25
Speaker 1: and hopefully that one won't suck.