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Dustin Kensrue (of Thrice & Solo Artist) · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mic.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Some records entertain us, others meet us right exactly at that right moment and become part of who we are.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: For me, Dustin Kenster's Please Come Home was one of those records.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're talking about the music that brings us back together from the legacy of Thrice to his brand new Christmas album, That Spirit of Christmas.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Dustin, thank you so much for joining the show today, my friend.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna get right into it.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've described Christmas music as something that brings people back to the same songs and stories year over year.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: With that spirit of Christmas, what did you want to capture about that shared experience that a typical holiday record might miss?
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I mean, I really, really love like that.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only Christmas music is the only thing like in kind of Western culture at large that is uh music that's associated with kind of this cycle of time.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: You have like all of these different traditions in different parts of the year, and they're all great, but at Christmas you get this bonus thing where there's all this music that you don't have anywhere else.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I think that's the big draw to me is being a part of that experience.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um participating in it both and listening and creating stuff.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you're asking on my record, what I hope some of the other ones or it gets at that others don't, is I don't and this might be I'm not trying to be negative, I just don't think that there's a lot of really solid Christmas records.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of like great singles.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um a lot of the records that do exist feel like kind of filler for a single.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there's a lot of even just like kind of novelty tunes, and those can be fun.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I'm uh that's not the stuff that like I want on the beer.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I really, really wanted this record to be like solid uh front to back and just feel really cohesive.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like you could throw it on record player and just be like, hey, we're we're listening to this for the next half hour and it's gonna feel cool.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's what I was trying to do.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's different than a lot of Christmas records, is really have a strong consistency there.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, even um kind of pulling a couple fringe songs, I feel like I'm pulling them all into a spot that feels good together.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, taking the Christmas aspect out of it, and one call out that you had was the fact that a specific set of songs just kind of re-emerge year over year over year.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: What about your personal listening habits?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you find that your personal listening habits and your tastes have a sense of seasonality to it?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like a certain time of year, you're listening more of this genre of music or this collection of songs than others outside of like Christmas time.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think so to a certain extent.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think there's kind of summer jams, you know, that that might emerge a little more.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's I think some of it's like tied to like activity, you know.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So like if I'm at the beach, I'm probably listening to more, you know, Bob Marley than I am when I'm at home.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh not always, but uh and I'm at the beach more in the summer.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then it's not as much of a thing, but I do I do like um I don't I like I try to create these things more than they really exist.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I was doing the podcast uh a while ago, I I had Gerard Way on and we made a I tried to do some like collaborative playlists with guests, and we were coming up on Halloween, so we did like a spooky playlist together.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's out there if you want to find it.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Carry the Fire was the podcast.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um search Gerard Way Carry the Fire.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a good list.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: But there's not like a ton that you could do.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: I did uh I listened to Tom Waits all year long, but uh I was like sitting in my garage for one caneo candy.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: My wife was like taking the kids around, and I just put on I made like a list of all the spookiest sounding Tom Waits songs that I could, and just played that, and I feel like that was probably scarier sounding than anything else I could have done.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, we're recording this like Halloween's a week away, and it's it's a question I do frequently ask a lot of guests because I think about my own personal how my tastes change throughout seasons of the year, seasons of life.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm listening to a lot more like piano, jazz, and instrumental music right now than I probably would any other time of the year, and I think it's just because of the atmosphere and what we're experiencing.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you live?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I live in Lincoln, Nebraska.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you have real seasons.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if I had more real seasons, I would it would affect me more.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's getting more and more debatable year over year over year.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: We are having it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, going back to the album, it draws heavily on mid-century soul, which is amazing.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the tap track list moves from White Christmas and Christmas time is here to Mariah Carey's All I Want for Christmas is you.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: How did you find the thread that made these very different songs feel like one cohesive Dustin Kensrew record?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that was a slow process where I started, you know, I had a bunch of songs I was interested in exploring.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And my solo work has pulled from kind of a variety of different uh threads of Americana in the past.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I started playing with a couple songs and taking it in a more soulful direction, and that's a lot of what I listen to, and I think my voice lends itself that way, and I just I realized uh I kind of just need to give myself permission to like go further down that hole, and it ended up feeling like a really fun excuse for this record because it felt right, and it was like, well, why don't I push it hard on this record in that direction?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it's it's hard because I end up writing a lot of my solo stuff on like acoustic guitar first, so it can tend to come out of a more folk or country or like some not something on that end of things um as it develops.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: But this stuff I all I started mostly just developing from bass and drums, and I think that had a large impact.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: I set my I had this short-scale music master bass from the 70s that's so fun to play.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've got like flow on strings on it and like a uh uh a mute at the bridge, and so it just it sounds old school and it's dead, like the notes die real quick, so you can keep moving.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, I just I I think all that coming together, I started getting excited about it, and and as it started to take shape, that kind of palette that I was building started to help me hone what songs were gonna make the cut, what ones weren't really working, and then I started looking for other ones that would would fit into it.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, it was it I keep lately I've been realizing I I started to describe writing projects like as uh in terms of like gravity, like things start to coalesce and then I pull more things in, and uh I feel like it's an interesting way of having cohesion without it feeling forced, like following where that gravity is leading.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Joy Lives Here is one of the album's original songs, and you've explained it as starting as a writing challenge connected to the Hallmark channel.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: How did a prompt you weren't initially drawn to become a song that the actual feeling of Christmas in your own home?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I started making this record and I was uh re-signed with uh label BMG, and someone there was like, Oh, we have this connection at uh at Hallmark, and they're looking for a song that goes on all their commercials and whatever.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um do you want to try to write for it?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I I don't usually do that, but I do like I like writing challenges, I like um imposed structure sometimes.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was one of the most fun things about making the alchemy index is the the structure that it imposed on us and restrictions uh foster creativity because you gotta figure out how do I make this mind within these boundaries.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I was like, okay, I'm gonna give it a shot.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't like the prompt originally.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't, I think I think mostly because it didn't work with uh a bit of a song that we I already had building.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, it doesn't fit in that song.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried to kind of force it in, and then my wife was like, this is not it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, uh I like I really've learned to trust, she has great like gut feelings about stuff.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, this is not the thing, like and gave me a few pushbacks.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, so I started completely from scratch the next day and like got pretty far on what the actual song is now.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it forced me to, I think because I didn't like the prompt, I had to really find a way into it, and that felt authentic and like I wanted to really believe where I was going with it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I really had to dig into like what do I actually love about my house in the holiday time, and how do I get that into into this song?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like I I was successful in that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I really love the song, and it feels special to me because it feels really like what the holidays feel like at my house with my family.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I'm glad I I'm glad I went with the challenge, even though uh it was not at all what I was looking for.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: They kept pushing back, they're like, No, no, no, it needs to be more like Michael Buble.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, it's not it's kind of nothing against Michael Buble, it's just like it's not you know I'm or Carrie Underwood or something that's like I'm not those things.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is me trying to do the thing he wants, and it was not good.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So well, and and and thank goodness for wives to keep us all humble, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: My my wife is very helpful creatively.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's she's not a musician.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she has been learning drumps, which is fun.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh she just has a very good ear or slash gut, like for like vibes of things.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, mine is very much the same way.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this good night is still everywhere first appeared on your 2008 Christmas release.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: You said that this version was recorded in the backs of buses and hotel rooms, and that it didn't fully capture the song's emotional core.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Nearly two decades later.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: What did you finally hear in this song that you couldn't quite get on to tape the first time?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, that first Christian Striker was very kind of haphazardly thrown together.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I I still love it, and I know it's become kind of a beloved thing for a lot of fans, like that they listen to every year.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: But that song, like that core of it, the idea, the inspiration from this Bukowski poem.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a there's a mood and a feeling that the poem got across that I I wanted to like merge with the feeling of specifically that that similar feeling, but at the holidays.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I just never felt like it was like totally there, partially from like production value, partially from the arrangement.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: So push it in pushing it into like a swing feel on this record, any different time signature, lets the vocals like breathe a lot more.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's a ton of space and instrumentation, I think, just feels a lot more like that very late night in the middle of like a chaotic time and season.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, I'm really happy that I got to reapproach that.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think the palette of this record specifically was perfectly set up to handle it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, before we pressed record, I I said I wanted to kind of approach this from a direction of season of life type things.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, your first solo record, Please Come Home, which is in the background for those that are just listening to the audio version here, came out in 2007, and you continue to explore folk, Americana, and roots-driven songwriting alongside with your work with Thrice.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: When you listen back to that record today, what do you hear in yourself that was already there?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And what has changed the most about you as a songwriter?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Good question.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think um something that might be really similar.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is like I mean, especially tying to this Christmas record, is uh Blanket of Ghosts on there is kind of has similar bones to a lot of these songs.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I knew a lot less of what I was doing at the time, like working with it, but I was there's something fun about that.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was just like, I'm interested in this sound, and I don't really which I still feel for almost everything I do, but slowly have gotten better at uh at faking it, which I think is the only way anyone does anything.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it just doesn't feel like that from the other side of it, you know.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then what's changed the most?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean, I think I think I'm a better singer than I was then, but um I don't know what else.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll interject and I'll second that.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like the re-record of artist in the ambulance, like when I hear an artist re-record an album, I'm usually like, okay, this is kind of the anniversary or play, but that re-record of artist, like that that has gotten me through some workouts, man.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'll be on the treadmill, I'm like, oh yeah, this is almost better the second time around.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's in your voice, is where I hear it the most.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think yeah, a lot of it's in the voice, some of it's in just the breadth and and the songs, and uh, but but yeah, I I think um I yeah, I think and I think thrice uh are both continuing to and I'm sure there's a a time when there's diminishing returns on that, but uh it's not quite yet.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously you can tell I'm making an obvious statement here, but I'm gonna share something personal.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Please come home became the soundtrack to a very pivotal chapter in my life.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a trio of albums.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was Please Come Home, Jason Iswell's Southeastern, and kind of a tie between Ryan Adams' Love is Hell and Heartbreaker, because I just I lived and breathed and died by those three albums, three, four albums.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Pistol was the um song my best friend Corey used for his first dance to his wife at their wedding, which was shortly after that.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: When you write a song, do you ever think about the life it might eventually have in someone else's story?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that something you can only understand after you let it go?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe with like songs that are more overtly love songs, you can kind of imagine the way that some of that connect for other people.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I'd say in general, there's there's a sense on a lot of songs that you can kind of see a trajectory that might connect, but you don't know to what extent or to what depth, I think always.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think for like the new Thrice Record, uh like Holding On was one that like I'd written a lot of it a couple years before we put it out because it was part of the original writing process for Rising's East, and and there was a lot that I put in there that was like, I think I think this will resonate like with people.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: But then I kind of came back to it a couple years later and we made it.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: I knew there was something special there, but very quickly once people heard it, I realized that I did something right there that it was it was doing the thing that I hoped it would do and to a deeper level than I thought it would do.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um making people feel seen in a in a hard spot.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, so I think I think sometimes you can you can tell, but you you never quite know.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: See I really uh dove into that album after I was done.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I stopped playing music myself in 2011, and uh I lacked some confidence after I was done, you know.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like okay.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I picked up an acoustic guitar and I was learning a lot of songs, and one of the first videos I threw online was me covering uh I Knew You Before from uh Please Come Home.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, and I got a lot of great feedback from people that used to follow my old bands and and loved it.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, it reinstilled the sense of confidence that I thought I'd lost over a period of time.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I never got the opportunity to thank you for that, but yeah, that's very cool.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I I feel honored to be in the company of those records in that time of your life.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: So well, Thrice has spent decades evolving rather than simply recreating what has worked before.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: How do you keep that willingness to challenge yourself alive in a band and solo with such a significant legacy while also allowing your solo work to follow a completely different instinct?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, it's it's too interesting to keep making things that feel new and exciting to you know to just keep doing the same thing.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I I don't think it's a very um helpful career instinct.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it isn't all very long-term thing.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think we have a longevity that is uh due to a lot of people learning to trust that we're gonna keep doing what's interesting to us, and that's gonna come through in an authentic way, and that's gonna be something that connects with people at a deep level.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's not great for building like momentum to grow, I think, uh in terms of like numbers as if they anything.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think it's worse with my solo stuff because it's just like oh, he just put out a like a western throwback country thing, and now I'm putting out a Christmas soul record just because I want to, even though it doesn't really make any sense.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like ha have uh a thread that really goes in a straight direction?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but you gotta do what you what you what you you do, and I think for me and the band, it's it's stay stay interested in what you're doing.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do the different creative outlets satisfy different parts of you, or have you found that the line between them has become less defined over the years?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think the line is it's not like a hard line maybe line is like the wrong word.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um a very huge part of the difference is that Rice is a totally collect.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Collaborative project.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like everybody in the band writes.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I'm responsible for lyrics and melodies and kind of like helping build the thing up, but all the parts are coming from everyone, and there's opinions coming from everyone.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's always going to be something different than I would do on my own, you know.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really fun.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's also challenging.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then when I do my own stuff, there's something great about being like, I'm the only one of us to say I like this.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then uh the flip side of it is it's terrifying and lonely.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because like is this any good?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, no one's there to push back on it.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so lately I had the last couple I've been collaborating with at least a couple other musicians and with uh Scott Evans.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been less less lonely, a little more fun, but it's still kind of the buck stops with me, it's just you know scarier.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so and then I think I'm trying to explore the solo stuff, just areas that don't generally lend themselves to the collaborative process that Thrice creates.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that's a very wide pool of things.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I'm always kind of bouncing from one thing to another.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I repeat myself frequently on the show when I have different artists on, but with streaming becoming as expansive as it has and kind of looking at a silver lining in a place where sometimes there's not a lot of silver linings.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think listeners are a little bit more forgiving about genre bending or expanding lines?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're more forgiving of artists in general than maybe they used to be when we were younger.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I see that happening.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a sense of like people are only gonna be as accepting as expect them to believe to be and and believe them to be and lead them to be in a certain sense of uh in your trajectory as a band because you could be doing something.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: I always think of like uh I can't remember the name of it, face-to-face made an album.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably like their fourth album or something.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone hated it.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I it was this ambitious kind of shift for them.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I think two things were going on.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they were and I haven't gone back to in a while, so I I I don't even know how good I think it was versus the other stuff, but they had a very, very, very consistent sound.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then it was this big shift, and then I feel like they swung back because everyone's like I don't like this.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even at that point, they could have chose to like keep pushing that way and found their way into like new territory.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's something about that continuation that will bring people along because we've had the same experience, even though I think we shifted enough each record to be like, okay, we're not gonna stay the same.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: It seems pretty clear.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: We still on a bunch of different pivotal records, people are like, oh man, this is not what I wanted.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is not what I expected.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we just kept going.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so over time, people come back to those records and like, oh yeah, this is really cool.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's a sense of like you have to own it and really lean into it for it to continue working if you're gonna go that way.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's hard to make a a you know, a hard turn if you've been very consistent before.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's not really answering a question, but that's my theory on how how you uh how you continue to change as an artist.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, again, if I'm gonna pay another compliment forward, I think uh ambitious risks has um led to a more intelligent response to Thrice's music over time, and it's shown your evolution is definitely shown through every single release, and your audience shows that in the way that they respond to it.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: They've evolved along with the band, and that has led to a really fantastic legacy.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about your own legacy, how important is it to contribute something meaningful to a tradition that will continue long after you?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know that I think about it in terms much outside of music and the people who listen to it and will listen to it, just I guess we never feel like we fit in anywhere.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that it doesn't often feel like we're part of a larger tradition and uh as much for better or for worse.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um for better and for worse.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think for us it just it matters that we're really striving to make the best thing we can to push ourselves.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it doesn't mean that we always you know hit the mark.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's definitely songs where we look back, like, man, I see what we're trying to do there, but we we did not did not accomplish it.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and thankfully, I I think it's there's only like uh other than you know, real early stuff that's like kind of funny, and think even you know, keeping perspective about those duds is good.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can't take yourself too seriously, you're never gonna hit it every time.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um Tepe and I were talking.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: We'll go to museums a fair amount on tour.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and every time we'll both are like, oh my gosh, I'll need to get home and paint, and then we never do.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so busy.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um But we'll get inspired because we'll see these you know artists who are you know the revered background is the best artist of all time, and you'll see some of the stuff they do, and a lot of it you're like, that's fine.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like that one's just okay.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like that one's not blowing my mind.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you see the output, especially of like a lot of those artists where they're they're painting and painting every day, and then just they're not worried about it anymore.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's off it because the process itself is is more important, and the process itself will generate some of those things that stand this test of time and and become something amazing.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think that's a there's something there to to think on when you're like, oh man, that song we did there.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, that one's just fine.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who cares?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: I I think the harder thing for music is that especially for us very album-oriented band above albums, is now that thing is like stuck in an album.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, it's like has an impact on the album.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas like if you just have a fine thing from a painter, it just goes away.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: No one cares about it, yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Objectivity of self is is a very important trait to have.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, going back to the nostalgia piece, you know, Christmas music can carry a lot of emotional weight for some people, it's comfort and nostalgia, and for others, it's grief, loneliness, the reminder of people who aren't around anymore.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Does that emotional complexity change the way you approach a Christmas record, knowing the same song can mean something completely different to different listeners?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think there's a lot of great Christmas songs that play with the bittersweet, you know, that it rides those lines.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I mean, I think a lot of the best Christmas songs are are sad Christmas songs, but it's it's some there's something in that uh kind of old wisdom that uh you know sad music can make you happy.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's giving you a place to land, a place to to rest, feeling seen, helping you actually feel an emotion you might need to feel.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I uh I embrace that and I I think that there's some some good little bits of that on this record.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: I the the bridge I added on this the the new version of this goodnight still everywhere, uh it's pretty heavy.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like it's I'll take what year I'm able send on nothing's met to last.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's just this little moment in the the peacefulness of this slight touch of existential dread or uh recognition.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I uh I think for me at least it comes across in a way of when you can see that clearly, like you're able to really see those moments clearly.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you see that you're able to actually focus in on the moment and not just be kind of going through the motions.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: You've been making music a long time, and the audience listening to you today includes people who discovered thrice years ago, people who connected with your solo work, and people who may be hearing you for the first time through this album.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: What has making music taught you about the connection between who you are and what we experience and the things that we hold on to?
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that makes me think of is there's a sense in which writing music for me is a distillatory, if that's a word, uh process where I feel like all the things that I've been learning and thinking and going through they're all unorganized, scattered within myself in a sense, uh hiding, unseen even.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or you know, there's pieces that are yet to connect, and writing often distills those things into something to where I actually see.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is what I've started to think.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is what I've been feeling.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's that's a very cool process.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean I think it's it's different than maybe a lot of people write.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like um my eldest uh Kiddo writes poetry.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: She's really gifted at it, but she'll go through something just horrible and then immediately write this amazing poem that captures what she's feeling right then.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't have that skill.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's I can't function in that place well.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's for me it's a much like slower process of of putting things in order.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that's it's cool.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: I always find it fascinating that the different ways that people write the different styles and and things they would capture.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times I'm most fascinated by people who write in a very different way.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and you can ever sell the ideas short that sometimes we find the best of ourselves through our kids, too.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or the hell or they help you you know see see yourself in different ways too.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that spirit of Christmas came out today.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: What do you hope someone takes away from this record beyond enjoying the music?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if one of those songs becomes a part of somebody's own family tradition or personal story for years to come, what would that mean to you?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think really like my biggest hope with the record is that the record as a whole becomes a part of people's um traditions.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh which I don't know if that sounds weird, but that's I just I love hearing music that I get to experience every year in the holiday season, and I I can't help but want to be a part of it.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um I it's been cool to see what how people are responding to the old Christmas record.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it makes me I think fairly confident that this is going to find as much of if not a bigger place in a lot of those people's uh lives.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, man.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, brother, I have thoroughly enjoyed getting to chat with you and and getting to know you.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you've been a huge part of my life for a long time, and uh I sincerely appreciate that.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm supposed to thank you on behalf of my friend Gory, who used pistol as his wedding song uh for the same reasons, man.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Huge fans and uh glad to call you a friend now, man.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Anything else we should be excited about coming up in the future?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: There are there are things in the works.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: There are there are things right around the bend.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh enjoy the Christmas record and look forward to something in January.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you might have to come back and talk to me about it whenever something in January comes up.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Dustin, thank you so much for doing the show, my friend.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: The world is a much better place with you and it.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for uh all the the time that you obviously put into preparing it.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.