Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / JURY SELECTION :Legal Heir Alex Murdaugh, Suspect in Wife and Son's Murders

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JURY SELECTION :Legal Heir Alex Murdaugh, Suspect in Wife and Son's Murders · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Finally will there be justice
0:17
Speaker 1: in the murderers of Maggie and Paul Murdog. Months and
0:23
Speaker 1: months have passed seemingly with no end in sight. But
0:29
Speaker 1: as we go to air, a jury is being impaneled.
0:33
Speaker 1: It's a long and arduous process. Nine hundred girars have
0:37
Speaker 1: been called to the court house. Typically in a case
0:40
Speaker 1: like this you can make do with sixty eighty one
0:43
Speaker 1: hundred girars to get a jury of twelve, but not
0:46
Speaker 1: so here the process happening as we speak. I mean it.
0:51
Speaker 1: See Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
0:54
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven.
0:58
Speaker 1: Amidst all of the hoopla surrounding the College and County
1:03
Speaker 1: Courthouse right now, one headline says the star attraction is
1:07
Speaker 1: the elephant ear? Are the elephant ears that are being
1:10
Speaker 1: sold outside? You know those big pieces of dough covered
1:14
Speaker 1: with sugar and cinnamon you get at a fair, the
1:18
Speaker 1: state fair. Um food trucks arriving media there. Some people
1:23
Speaker 1: would call it a circus, but inside that courtroom it's
1:27
Speaker 1: a whole different thing. Where did the whole thing start?
1:32
Speaker 1: Right here? Teenty one forty seven Mozel Road. I think
1:45
Speaker 1: the police my wife and Tom Scot. Okay, you said, sir,
1:57
Speaker 1: you said, forty one forty seven Mozel Rod in Olican
2:00
Speaker 1: yea road with me? Okay, okay, college And I have
2:10
Speaker 1: an Alex Murdoch on the line, caller from forty one
2:13
Speaker 1: forty seven moz Road. He's advising that his wife's and
2:17
Speaker 1: child was shot. Okay, forty one forty seven Mozelle Road.
2:25
Speaker 1: I've been up to it now is bad? Okay? Okay?
2:30
Speaker 1: And are they breathing? No, ma'am okay. And he said
2:34
Speaker 1: it's your wife and your son, my wife and my scorn.
2:39
Speaker 1: Are they in a vehicle? No, ma'am, their own ground
2:43
Speaker 1: out at my kennel. If he is lying, and I
2:48
Speaker 1: believe he is, he is making me sick and may
2:52
Speaker 1: he rot in hell now. Of course, everyone in that
2:57
Speaker 1: our country at least has presumed innocent, a proven guilty
3:01
Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt, not a fantastical possibility, but beyond
3:08
Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt. But I believe he's lying. In that
3:15
Speaker 1: nine one one called Meryl Street, move over, because Alex
3:20
Speaker 1: Murdog got it all over you in that nine one
3:24
Speaker 1: one call. If what I believe happened, really did happen.
3:27
Speaker 1: We got an all star lineup to make sense of
3:29
Speaker 1: what we know right now, what is happening in that
3:31
Speaker 1: courtroom even as we speak, and we are coming to
3:33
Speaker 1: you alive from the courthouse. An Emerson is with US
3:37
Speaker 1: senior investigative reporter WCIV ABC. She is a host of
3:42
Speaker 1: an award winning podcast, Unsolved South Carolina, The Murdoch Murders,
3:47
Speaker 1: Money and Mystery. And Emerson there at the courthouse and warning,
3:52
Speaker 1: you can hear the girard numbers being called out. The
3:56
Speaker 1: jars are addressed only by their numbers. And Emerson, thank
4:01
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Tell me what's happening right now.
4:03
Speaker 1: We are in day two of jury selection. We are
4:07
Speaker 1: really gaining speed right now, and like you said, you
4:10
Speaker 1: can literally hear behind me. I'm in the media overflow room.
4:14
Speaker 1: They put us at the Wildlife Center for all the
4:16
Speaker 1: media just to give you an idea of the spaces
4:20
Speaker 1: that we're in. So it is like a zoo a
4:23
Speaker 1: little bit. As we get started with this trial. We're
4:26
Speaker 1: on day two, so we have four panels of jury
4:30
Speaker 1: possible of jurors to go through. Those panels are about
4:34
Speaker 1: we've estimated about eighty to ninety jurors. We've already flown
4:39
Speaker 1: through three of these panels, which means we're going to
4:43
Speaker 1: our last panel as we are talking right now. That's
4:46
Speaker 1: what we're listening to as the jurors getting called by
4:49
Speaker 1: their numbers and they're starting to whittle it down based
4:53
Speaker 1: on a very important questionnaire that they sent out to
4:57
Speaker 1: the jurors before this all started, and they were prepared
5:00
Speaker 1: to answer these questions, and two of the big questions
5:03
Speaker 1: they're asking besides you know, you know the murdocks, is
5:07
Speaker 1: how have you gotten your information? Is it through the
5:10
Speaker 1: podcast that we've been putting out, is it through local news,
5:13
Speaker 1: national news, Nancy Grace. You know, we are seriously trying
5:18
Speaker 1: to figure out if they can pull a jury that's
5:21
Speaker 1: going to be fair and unbiased as best as they
5:27
Speaker 1: can based on what they know. Yesterday, there was a
5:30
Speaker 1: very dramatic moment when they only had about fifty jurors
5:33
Speaker 1: left in the first panel and they said, so, anybody
5:39
Speaker 1: stand up if you part about this case, and the
5:42
Speaker 1: entire jury panel stood up, well, well, you're exactly right,
5:45
Speaker 1: and Emerson, take a listen to our friend Riley Miller
5:48
Speaker 1: w JCL. As a jury selection began, Judge Clifton Newman
5:53
Speaker 1: asked the first group of potential jurors if they had
5:55
Speaker 1: heard about this case, if they had read about this case.
5:59
Speaker 1: Every single one stood up during selection, Of course, is
6:03
Speaker 1: the first order of business. Judge Newman's questions started simple,
6:08
Speaker 1: what do you do for a living? Are you married
6:10
Speaker 1: or single? And what does your spouse do? Then the
6:14
Speaker 1: questions got more complicated. From Facebook groups to local news
6:18
Speaker 1: to national news and documentaries. All potential jurors not surprisingly
6:24
Speaker 1: shared how they knew about this double murder case. Well,
6:27
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not just there in South Carolina. People
6:31
Speaker 1: all across the world know about this case, and they should.
6:34
Speaker 1: Here's why, Alexander NBC. The nine one one call came
6:38
Speaker 1: late Monday night. Officials say prominent South Carolina attorney Alex
6:41
Speaker 1: Murdog came home last week and called police after discovering
6:45
Speaker 1: his wife and son murdered. Fifty two year old Maggie
6:48
Speaker 1: Murdoch and twenty two year old Paul Murdoch both shot
6:51
Speaker 1: multiple times outside their home. According to investigators, it happened
6:55
Speaker 1: in Islandtown, South Carolina, about ninety minutes outside of Charleston.
6:59
Speaker 1: Now more than a week later, seeming little progress, no arrests,
7:03
Speaker 1: no named suspect, and from police, no motive. In addition
7:07
Speaker 1: to Ann Emerson from w CIV joining us right there
7:11
Speaker 1: at the courthouse, and you can hear the jars being
7:13
Speaker 1: called by number high profile lawyer joining US trial lawyer
7:17
Speaker 1: Mark Tate out of the Tate Law Group. He is
7:20
Speaker 1: joining from Savannah, not too far away from this courthouse,
7:26
Speaker 1: Mark Tate. This is not California where a jury selection
7:31
Speaker 1: can take six weeks. I mean typically in a murder case,
7:39
Speaker 1: and I don't mean a regular murder case, I mean
7:42
Speaker 1: any murder case in the Southeast, a jury can be
7:47
Speaker 1: struck two days, Max. Oh. Absolutely. You know the prosecutors
7:51
Speaker 1: have in the typical murder case. You know, first of
7:55
Speaker 1: all it's a guilty plea, but second of all of
7:58
Speaker 1: it goes to trial. The prosecutors have their witnesses in
8:01
Speaker 1: their back pocket, and they you know, the police officers
8:04
Speaker 1: and investigators they see every single day. And there's not
8:07
Speaker 1: a whole lot of difficult evidence, and there's certainly not
8:10
Speaker 1: this kind of publicity. And like it or not, that
8:14
Speaker 1: whole family was in the news long before the murders
8:19
Speaker 1: and suicide attempts commenced, and everyone knew them, and everyone
8:24
Speaker 1: has everybody up there in Hilton Head Island, Colleton County,
8:29
Speaker 1: all those areas up there. They know who the guy
8:31
Speaker 1: is and they're interested in the story. There are a
8:34
Speaker 1: lot of people, believe it or not, who are scared
8:37
Speaker 1: still of the Murdoch family. And it's going to be hard,
8:42
Speaker 1: I think, to find someone who honestly can say that
8:47
Speaker 1: they haven't formed opinions about the case. And you know
8:51
Speaker 1: that's really the test, Nancy. The test is not whether
8:54
Speaker 1: they've heard something about it. The test is whether they
8:56
Speaker 1: can put aside anything that they've heard and an impartial
9:01
Speaker 1: jury juror and not have formed any opinions prior to
9:04
Speaker 1: hearing all the evidence. I think it's gonna be tough. Well,
9:07
Speaker 1: you're right, Mark, Jay. The issue is not have you
9:11
Speaker 1: heard about the case? I mean, you'd have to be
9:14
Speaker 1: under a rock in the cave in another country, far
9:18
Speaker 1: far away from the US not to have at least
9:21
Speaker 1: heard something, whether it's stuck or not, about this case.
9:25
Speaker 1: So it's not have you heard about it? It's can
9:28
Speaker 1: you put aside anything you've heard and render a true
9:32
Speaker 1: verdict based on the facts and evidence that you hear
9:35
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. And I'm willing to bet practically everybody
9:40
Speaker 1: I know would be able to promise they would base
9:44
Speaker 1: their verdict or what they hear in the courtroom, because
9:47
Speaker 1: what's been in the news so far, it's not evidence.
9:50
Speaker 1: It's what journalists think, it's what they've deduced, it's what
9:55
Speaker 1: has been filtered out to them. Guys, wan't you take
9:58
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut one two four from WJCL
10:03
Speaker 1: twenty two. Because notoriety or knowing the Murdoch family, it's
10:08
Speaker 1: a double edge sword. Right before trial started, and that
10:13
Speaker 1: includes jury selection. A portrait of a Murdog, a male
10:18
Speaker 1: Murdoch like a great great grandpa, had to be taken
10:21
Speaker 1: down out of the courtroom and it brings back memories
10:23
Speaker 1: for me and I'm sure it does for you too,
10:25
Speaker 1: Mark tap In most courtrooms they're surrounded by a bunch
10:29
Speaker 1: of pictures, typically old white guys. Never seen a woman
10:33
Speaker 1: up there. A bunch of old white guys, and they're
10:35
Speaker 1: all judges. They're all judges that have served way way
10:40
Speaker 1: way back. And I've been in the courtroom so much
10:43
Speaker 1: I would finally like waiting on a jury to come
10:45
Speaker 1: back would look at all of these and they're all
10:49
Speaker 1: former judges. One of those had to be taken down
10:51
Speaker 1: before the jurards came in because there was a Murdog relative. Hey, guys,
10:55
Speaker 1: take a listen to Riley Miller. The Murdoch name was
10:58
Speaker 1: once associated with power, were an influence, But attorney at
11:02
Speaker 1: Justin Vamberg, who's representing the family of Kim Pinckney, one
11:06
Speaker 1: of Alex's alleged financial victims, doesn't think the name will
11:10
Speaker 1: help Eleik. Now, people are kind of over there and
11:13
Speaker 1: they're like, you know, you had power that you abused
11:17
Speaker 1: and the expense of some people who were in some
11:19
Speaker 1: of the darkest days of their life. So now we
11:22
Speaker 1: don't care. That's your last names Murdoch. Some of the
11:25
Speaker 1: potential witnesses who could be called to testify in this
11:28
Speaker 1: case include Elex's brothers, Randy and John Marvin Murdoch, as
11:33
Speaker 1: well as his only surviving son, Buster Crime Stories with
11:50
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. You know, back to k Mark, Jay, what
11:55
Speaker 1: did you mean that some people they actually still be
11:59
Speaker 1: afraid of the Murloch family. Well, you know, I'm here
12:02
Speaker 1: eighteen twenty miles from them. I've been practicing in Savannah
12:06
Speaker 1: and trying cases here in Savannah forru and everywhere else.
12:09
Speaker 1: Really for thirty plus years, I've had cases in which
12:12
Speaker 1: I represented plaintiffs up in that neck of the woods,
12:15
Speaker 1: and that family had significant power up there. And you know,
12:21
Speaker 1: at one point, you know, the first mister Murdoch who
12:25
Speaker 1: was the elected solicitor there in Colinin County. You know,
12:28
Speaker 1: wonderful guy, fantastic reputation, sterling character. But as you know,
12:33
Speaker 1: the generations move forward and power seems to be passed
12:37
Speaker 1: down generation to generation, as if some sort of royal inheritance.
12:42
Speaker 1: M R. Say, don't say royal inheritance to an American. Oh, yes,
12:46
Speaker 1: because we don't like that. That's why we had to.
12:49
Speaker 1: Let's see what that little thing was, that little skirmish,
12:51
Speaker 1: the Revolutionary War? Exactly right at all. I don't think
12:56
Speaker 1: anybody does, anybody here in the studio like it when
13:01
Speaker 1: power or money or fame or whatever is handed down
13:06
Speaker 1: all the rest everybody else is scrapping to make a living.
13:09
Speaker 1: And yet yet not less to you. Thank you Jackie
13:11
Speaker 1: for the insight. But guys, we're in the middle of
13:16
Speaker 1: jury selection and Ann Emerson is with us from w CIV.
13:19
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle dupre Lee, Reber, Chris Spires, doctor Bethany Marshall
13:24
Speaker 1: all with us to make sense of what's happening right now.
13:26
Speaker 1: And in the midst of all of this, there's a
13:31
Speaker 1: new reveal. Take a listen our cut one two six
13:35
Speaker 1: from Will Reeve. Now new details about what's ahead in
13:39
Speaker 1: the trial. Prosecutors adding Google and Snapchat representatives to their
13:43
Speaker 1: witness lists. Murdoch's son Paul reportedly sent a Snapchat video
13:47
Speaker 1: to his friends just hours before his death. Meanwhile, the
13:50
Speaker 1: defense filing emotion to try to block blood spatter evidence
13:53
Speaker 1: from the trial, claiming authorities damaged Murdoch's T shirt during
13:56
Speaker 1: the forensic testing process. The debate here is whether or
13:59
Speaker 1: not they can actually rely on the blood spatter that
14:02
Speaker 1: was found on his T shirt to indicate anything, because
14:05
Speaker 1: there is some question as to whether or not it
14:08
Speaker 1: was on the shirt due to life saving measures that
14:10
Speaker 1: he took when he'd encountered the bodies, or whether it
14:13
Speaker 1: was in fact from splatter from a gunshot wound. Okay,
14:17
Speaker 1: let me just say this is a quickie to you,
14:19
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Debrie. I want you to think about this
14:22
Speaker 1: and percolate. No, no, no, and no okay, because anybody
14:28
Speaker 1: that knows about blood spatter, there is a you will
14:32
Speaker 1: know a huge difference between a blood spatter marking and
14:36
Speaker 1: a blood transfer. For instance, when the sheriffs took the
14:41
Speaker 1: T shirt, if it touched something else, you can easily
14:45
Speaker 1: tell that's a blood transfer, not a blood spatter. Just
14:49
Speaker 1: think about if you take V eight and you throw
14:52
Speaker 1: it on the wall, that's gonna look more like blood spatter,
14:56
Speaker 1: not for instance, when you take a band aid all
15:01
Speaker 1: a cut that looks like a transfer. Hold that thought.
15:05
Speaker 1: I'm coming right back to you, but I'm completely captivated,
15:09
Speaker 1: intrigued by the whole Google and not just Google, but
15:15
Speaker 1: Snapchat development in the trial. What does it mean take
15:21
Speaker 1: a less SNAr cut? One three three amiguil. The State
15:24
Speaker 1: has filed a new motion and the Murdoch trial of
15:26
Speaker 1: Alec Murdoch requesting both a witness from Google and Snapchat
15:31
Speaker 1: testify in the murder trial. The new filing shows that,
15:34
Speaker 1: among other things, there is a video sent by Paul
15:38
Speaker 1: Murdoch to several friends at seven fifty six that night,
15:41
Speaker 1: the night of the murderers that is critical to the
15:44
Speaker 1: state's case. Critical to the state's case, and they can
15:48
Speaker 1: time it seven fifty six, and I've got to tell
15:51
Speaker 1: you I know more about snapchatting than I ever wanted
15:54
Speaker 1: to know, because the twins are constantly snapping people. And
15:59
Speaker 1: for those of you here in the studio that don't know,
16:01
Speaker 1: it's not texting a message, it is a picture. You
16:05
Speaker 1: send them a picture, and then they have to send
16:07
Speaker 1: you a picture. It's just a there's a snapchat etiquette.
16:11
Speaker 1: We were talking about it just today on the way
16:13
Speaker 1: to school. But away from that and onto this and
16:17
Speaker 1: Emerson with me, wc Ivy tell me everything. What we're
16:21
Speaker 1: hearing is this snapchat video, as we were hearing in
16:25
Speaker 1: the report, came very close to when this timeline is occurring.
16:30
Speaker 1: And it's incredibly important to note that this timeline has
16:34
Speaker 1: shifted to some degree. You know, previously we were hearing
16:37
Speaker 1: from Flood that the that these double murders occurred between
16:40
Speaker 1: nine and nine thirty pm. We're now getting a broader
16:43
Speaker 1: timeline from prosecutor. Okay An Emerson and Emerson and Emerson
16:48
Speaker 1: two out of three people just said, what what what
16:51
Speaker 1: does she say? Slow down? You know you're speaking to
16:55
Speaker 1: us Mere Mortals and Emerson and we're trying to keep
16:58
Speaker 1: up with you. Okay, what you say and listen if
17:00
Speaker 1: you hear the judge say anything. I want to know
17:03
Speaker 1: what he's saying. I want to hear everything. So please
17:06
Speaker 1: go free to change the course of our discussion. But
17:09
Speaker 1: back to the snapchat. I know, and I do. I've
17:11
Speaker 1: got I've got one ear on the judge to see
17:14
Speaker 1: if he has to stop for any reason, because we
17:16
Speaker 1: have certainly seen a lot of stoppages along the way
17:20
Speaker 1: in this already. What we know is that Paul had
17:25
Speaker 1: been snapping with a friend and or several friends and
17:30
Speaker 1: sending the snapchat out and as you said, kids are
17:34
Speaker 1: all over this, so it was a very important timeline
17:39
Speaker 1: that we need to pay attention to. Right now, we're
17:41
Speaker 1: being told as of just the last few months, the
17:46
Speaker 1: state has moved the timeline of when these murders occurred
17:50
Speaker 1: between eight thirty and ten o'clock, So seven fifty six
17:55
Speaker 1: is very close to this timeline. Now, as far as
17:58
Speaker 1: what's on this video, that's what obviously everybody wants to know.
18:03
Speaker 1: We do know about a previous video, and this is
18:07
Speaker 1: where we're trying to make connections and see if their connection.
18:10
Speaker 1: Is this the same video that they were talking about
18:14
Speaker 1: where Paul was having this quote unquote just very light
18:21
Speaker 1: conversation with Maggie and Alec his parents talking about a
18:27
Speaker 1: dog in the kennels. Is this the same video? So
18:29
Speaker 1: these are the kind of questions we still want answers
18:33
Speaker 1: to because they didn't outline it in the filing. If Snapchat,
18:38
Speaker 1: you know, I've talked to some tech experts on this,
18:41
Speaker 1: Snapchat and Google because they're also looking at Google evidence
18:46
Speaker 1: on location devices that were turned off. Google and Snapchat
18:52
Speaker 1: are not witnesses that like to go up on the stamp.
18:57
Speaker 1: I'll just say that's what we're told. The reps are
19:00
Speaker 1: not going to be doing this willingly. Oh blah blah
19:04
Speaker 1: blah blah. You know what, who wants to who do
19:07
Speaker 1: you know typically that wants to get crowbarn out of
19:11
Speaker 1: their home or office and go sit at the courthouse
19:13
Speaker 1: for three or four days to testify and then get
19:16
Speaker 1: a booty grilling by the other side, like you're up
19:19
Speaker 1: there lying it's a Google or a Snapchat exec that
19:24
Speaker 1: don't have a dog in the fight, that don't as
19:26
Speaker 1: skin in the game, and they're gonna get roasted on
19:29
Speaker 1: cross exam. Of course, they don't want to come that's
19:31
Speaker 1: why we have things called subpoenas. If you don't come,
19:34
Speaker 1: you're gonna land in jail. So I think you're absolutely right.
19:38
Speaker 1: Ann Emerson. Hey, one thing you mentioned location device is
19:42
Speaker 1: turned off. What do you mean by that? Well, that's
19:45
Speaker 1: what we want to know that. You know, we're seeing
19:47
Speaker 1: this filing come across that they want to Google a
19:51
Speaker 1: rep to come and testify about why the location devices
19:56
Speaker 1: at the scene of the crime were turned off. Oh,
19:58
Speaker 1: I'm so happy. I' so happy. Sounds like somebody's pulling
20:02
Speaker 1: a coburger. Remember how he cut his phone off, allegedly
20:06
Speaker 1: cut his phone off or put it on airplane mode.
20:09
Speaker 1: We saw that first recently in the Susan Susanne more
20:13
Speaker 1: Few case. But wow, that's telling me a lot right there,
20:18
Speaker 1: because you have to go deep dive into your device
20:21
Speaker 1: to turn off location or put it on airplane mode.
20:24
Speaker 1: What and and I'm coming right to you, Lee Reeber.
20:28
Speaker 1: What ann Emerson, There was one other thing that we
20:30
Speaker 1: noticed in this filing, and it came why at the
20:32
Speaker 1: end of the filing, and it said that one of
20:35
Speaker 1: the the experts it was actually coming out of Defense
20:39
Speaker 1: because Defense actually shared pretty gruesome crime scene photos of
20:45
Speaker 1: when the actual you know, what they saw right after
20:48
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of this. So we've actually gotten to
20:51
Speaker 1: see our first photos from the crime scene. Wait a minute,
20:56
Speaker 1: they showed that during for a dire jury selection. No no, no,
21:00
Speaker 1: I'm in one of the filings in the Pretrael motion failings.
21:04
Speaker 1: But the defense we got we got those crime scene photos,
21:07
Speaker 1: so we were looking at that. Now what I've read
21:10
Speaker 1: and I have to share it because I don't know
21:12
Speaker 1: what this means exactly, but it looks like Paul's phone
21:15
Speaker 1: was taken out of his pocket, and according to these
21:19
Speaker 1: court filings, when that phone, when his cell phone was
21:22
Speaker 1: taken out of his back pocket, it was put on
21:24
Speaker 1: top of his pocket. In the filing, it says that
21:28
Speaker 1: was done by someone other than Paul, and I thought
21:31
Speaker 1: that was interesting. That is very interesting because he's lying
21:34
Speaker 1: there dead and somebody stages the scene and that's the
21:38
Speaker 1: whole psychopathy right there as to whose stage the scene,
21:40
Speaker 1: in other words, moved any evidence postmortem. But it also
21:44
Speaker 1: said that there was blood on the inside of his
21:46
Speaker 1: back pocket. Oh man, That means whoever picked the phone
21:51
Speaker 1: up had blood on their hands when they reached into
21:54
Speaker 1: his back pocket to pick up the exact on his pocket.
21:59
Speaker 1: Are you talking about a dirt pocket back pocket his
22:02
Speaker 1: back pants pocket? I thought you said it was taken
22:05
Speaker 1: out of his back pocket and just placed on his
22:07
Speaker 1: back pocket. That's that's what I raced on or in
22:11
Speaker 1: his back pocket on Okay, you know this is reminding me.
22:15
Speaker 1: It reminds me. Doctor Michelle Dupree, former forensic pathologists, medical examiner,
22:20
Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, joining us from South Carolina.
22:25
Speaker 1: This is her backyard, Doctor Dupree. I'm very curious about
22:33
Speaker 1: the blood on the pocket and possibly blood on Paul's
22:38
Speaker 1: cell phone, and it reminds me of the first time
22:42
Speaker 1: I realized how significant blood spatter and blood evidence is.
22:46
Speaker 1: I had a case where a woman was found naked,
22:50
Speaker 1: that's important, in bed under the covers, and she had
22:56
Speaker 1: quote committed suicide, that's what her husband said, and and
23:00
Speaker 1: she had shot herself in the head lying in bed naked.
23:06
Speaker 1: She committed suicide. Now you and I know all of that.
23:08
Speaker 1: Scream's note, that's not what happened statistically. But then an
23:13
Speaker 1: old trooper who had been on the Georgia State Patrol
23:19
Speaker 1: actually for many many years, we were looking at the
23:23
Speaker 1: sheets at the crime lab and we realized that there
23:27
Speaker 1: was blood spatter under her pillow, which means she was shot.
23:34
Speaker 1: And then someone placed her head on the pillow over
23:37
Speaker 1: the blood spatter, and it was like an epiphany for
23:41
Speaker 1: me to realize how significant blood spatter evidence is of
23:46
Speaker 1: what it can prove jump in doctor Dupree exactly. And
23:49
Speaker 1: so blood spatter can actually tell us so many things,
23:51
Speaker 1: as you know, Nancy. And that's why I think this
23:53
Speaker 1: sharp is very important because when we look at the sharp,
23:57
Speaker 1: there are two supposed stains on the upper shoulders of
24:02
Speaker 1: both arms that's up that you won't find that when
24:06
Speaker 1: you're checking somebody's pulse or something like that and it's spattered.
24:10
Speaker 1: It isn't a smear. It isn't something that's going to
24:12
Speaker 1: be transferred. The other thing that I found really interesting
24:16
Speaker 1: is that the timeline. I want to know how the
24:20
Speaker 1: coroner are Sled or whomever determined the time of death.
24:24
Speaker 1: I mean, describe the scene for me. Was there pooling
24:27
Speaker 1: of blood, was it dried, was there sindicongealed, was there
24:29
Speaker 1: a film over it? What was the temperature of the
24:31
Speaker 1: body where they wanted to touch? I mean, tell me
24:34
Speaker 1: these things so that I know how you figured out
24:36
Speaker 1: the time of death. Well, we know that Paul is
24:39
Speaker 1: sending a snap a snapchat at about eight o'clock seven
24:43
Speaker 1: fifty six, and the bodies were found around ten, so
24:47
Speaker 1: we've got eight to ten o'clock. That's two hours. But
24:51
Speaker 1: you and I've been going round and round and round
24:53
Speaker 1: doctor Dupree about the state of the blood when the
24:57
Speaker 1: bodies were found dried, still, wet, fresh, it was it
25:04
Speaker 1: getting tacky. All of those things matter as to determining
25:09
Speaker 1: time of death, which is extremely important to special guests
25:13
Speaker 1: joining us. Lee Reber, mobile device forensic expert, CEO of
25:17
Speaker 1: Oxygen Forensics, an author of Mobile Forensic Investigation and cash
25:23
Speaker 1: this star of a podcast called Forensic Happy Hour. Okay,
25:26
Speaker 1: I never thought i'd see those three words put together,
25:28
Speaker 1: but they are, Lee Reber. I know you're holding back.
25:31
Speaker 1: Hit me, hit me hard with everything you can tell
25:34
Speaker 1: me about Snapchat, turning off location devices and why Google
25:40
Speaker 1: and Snapchat? Do I want to show up to court?
25:42
Speaker 1: Do you blame them? Yes, so many, so many good stuff.
25:45
Speaker 1: First on location, I think the important thing, as you see,
25:49
Speaker 1: is so many cases right now comes down to that
25:52
Speaker 1: mobile device right and location communication is obviously everybody you
25:58
Speaker 1: know have you know, you're talking on your phone, but
26:00
Speaker 1: using those apps, whether we snapchat, any type of communication,
26:03
Speaker 1: any type of if you sign in as a Google
26:05
Speaker 1: or with your Google account, the location is there, right,
26:09
Speaker 1: You're transmitting your location, and it's clear in all their
26:12
Speaker 1: data policies. However, what's interesting to me is, obviously he
26:16
Speaker 1: makes the nine one one call, but they had been
26:19
Speaker 1: together allegedly before, so showing all phones together by location
26:25
Speaker 1: is pretty important. Then showing what I understand, the wife's
26:29
Speaker 1: phone was found away from the scene, so if they
26:31
Speaker 1: were together at one time, or two of them were
26:34
Speaker 1: together and one maybe at the time that somebody was murdered,
26:38
Speaker 1: you might have the separation of devices. So actually it's
26:42
Speaker 1: almost like a video as you think of the digital devices.
26:45
Speaker 1: They're together, they're separate. Now this phone is away from that,
26:50
Speaker 1: and you can use all of that by where they
26:53
Speaker 1: even the phone turned on or an app being utilized.
26:56
Speaker 1: I think the location information would be quite critical as
27:00
Speaker 1: long as you know they obtain this from either their
27:03
Speaker 1: cell phone carriers. With Snapchat, what's interesting about Snapchat is
27:08
Speaker 1: you know how they're talking. You know, they're really excited
27:11
Speaker 1: about this. What's interesting to me is the retention policy
27:15
Speaker 1: that you have with Snapchat. We all think as soon
27:18
Speaker 1: as you, you know, send a snap, it goes away. Well,
27:23
Speaker 1: it's really it depends because if it's unopened, in quotes
27:29
Speaker 1: the desired timeline, it keeps it for thirty one days
27:34
Speaker 1: if it has not been opened. So I think that's
27:37
Speaker 1: extremely important to think about with on the Snapchat side
27:39
Speaker 1: of it. So did you say is kept for thirty
27:42
Speaker 1: one days if it is not opened? What if it
27:44
Speaker 1: is opened? Yeah, if it is opened, it depends upon
27:47
Speaker 1: the setting, right, If it's opened by the individuals, it
27:50
Speaker 1: goes away. However, if anyone within that group saves that,
27:56
Speaker 1: it gets saved onto the Snapchat server, so it's available.
28:01
Speaker 1: So you're saying, and regular people talk, you are saying
28:06
Speaker 1: that there's a chance that snap was saved. Yeah, sure, yeah,
28:09
Speaker 1: it's quite possible. It depends upon when they serve either
28:11
Speaker 1: preservation order on that and I don't know that that timeline.
28:15
Speaker 1: But if it was saved by any of the people
28:19
Speaker 1: within the group, because I understand it was sent to someone,
28:22
Speaker 1: If it was saved, then yes, it would still remain
28:24
Speaker 1: on the server for snapshet. Well, I can tell you
28:29
Speaker 1: most people and I'm speaking generally, don't save snaps unless
28:32
Speaker 1: it's something really commemorative or special to them or have
28:37
Speaker 1: a certain meaning to them, because you know, it's kind
28:40
Speaker 1: of a throwaway. I'd be surprised if it was saved
28:43
Speaker 1: unless the subpoena had been delivered within that thirty one
28:47
Speaker 1: day period where it's still being housed to Doctor Bethany
28:51
Speaker 1: Marshall joining us psychoanalyst out Beverly Heals It. Doctor Bethany
28:55
Speaker 1: Marshall dot Com started bling Empire on Netflix. Doctor Bethany,
29:00
Speaker 1: let me confirm this with Anne Emerson. First, Anne Emerson
29:04
Speaker 1: joining me at the courthouse. You can hear the jars
29:06
Speaker 1: being called in the background from WCIV. From what I understand,
29:11
Speaker 1: there is a new, bright and shining, new Alex Murdog
29:15
Speaker 1: in front of the jurars because he's there to see
29:18
Speaker 1: every single thing and make eye contact and smile and
29:21
Speaker 1: turn on his apparent charm. I don't think he's charming,
29:24
Speaker 1: but apparently some people do. I understand the very slimmed
29:28
Speaker 1: down Alex Murdog has actually smirked in court during jury selection,
29:35
Speaker 1: and he's turning on a smile I've never seen before.
29:40
Speaker 1: He and he's dressed up in a suit. He looks
29:42
Speaker 1: like he's going to handle a case, not be a
29:45
Speaker 1: defendant in a case. Is this true with the smiles
29:48
Speaker 1: and the smirks, And if he couldn't be more true?
29:50
Speaker 1: I mean, as far as I'm watching him like a hawk,
29:53
Speaker 1: I've got right now. And just so everybody knows, I'm
29:55
Speaker 1: in a media workflow overflow room, so I'm not in
30:00
Speaker 1: the courtroom. I have the audio coming through the area
30:03
Speaker 1: where I'm working today, but when I'm in the courtroom,
30:08
Speaker 1: which is just across the street. So basically what's going
30:11
Speaker 1: on is he is completely changed from the last few months.
30:17
Speaker 1: He made a transformation, and I saw it happening in
30:19
Speaker 1: the last motions heering in December when they allowed him
30:23
Speaker 1: to have his UH shackles taken off. He shows up
30:27
Speaker 1: in with hair. We hadn't seen him with a head
30:30
Speaker 1: of hair in a while. Yeah, I thought he shaved
30:32
Speaker 1: his head. He sure did. Hear he shows up with
30:35
Speaker 1: a head of hair. Real. Now, that's gotta be real real,
30:38
Speaker 1: because I don't think they make a weed that looks
30:40
Speaker 1: like that. So it's it has gotten a lot wider.
30:43
Speaker 1: I have noticed that over the last year or two.
30:45
Speaker 1: But somebody's had a touch up exactly, so he is unshackled,
30:51
Speaker 1: he's got on his blazer. He's very relaxed. I saw
30:54
Speaker 1: it in December, even when he kind of had his
30:56
Speaker 1: arm over the one of the sort of que like
31:00
Speaker 1: talking to someone behind him, and had a big smile
31:03
Speaker 1: on his face, and he looked like part of the
31:05
Speaker 1: defense team. And that is something that I can't even
31:10
Speaker 1: underestimate how important that is to show that level of
31:13
Speaker 1: confidence that he is portraying right now with his defense team.
31:17
Speaker 1: There's no there's no nervousness. There, there's a there's a
31:23
Speaker 1: there's a real sense of he's taking notes, stirring the jersey,
31:26
Speaker 1: he's looking at them. Even by the end of the day.
31:29
Speaker 1: He didn't do it at the beginning, but by the
31:31
Speaker 1: end of the day. On the third panel, he stands up.
31:34
Speaker 1: When they say can you know the defendant? Police stand up?
31:37
Speaker 1: He stands up and says, good afternoon, Okay, time stories
31:54
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Okay, I need a shrink, and I
32:00
Speaker 1: made one very quickly. Nine one one, Doctor Bethany, nine
32:04
Speaker 1: one one way in Oh, everybody's heard my long, boring
32:07
Speaker 1: explanation so many times I've never heard you ever. Okay,
32:11
Speaker 1: I won't say long, but I've never heard you give
32:14
Speaker 1: a boring explanation. Go ahead, Okay. The brief is that
32:19
Speaker 1: sociopaths have very low levels of anxiety. They never feel
32:23
Speaker 1: they're going to get caught. Because of that, they don't
32:26
Speaker 1: have cause and effect thinking, and they are messy, and Nancy,
32:31
Speaker 1: that's what all these crimes are. They are messy. This
32:34
Speaker 1: guy has so many charges against him, even though we're
32:37
Speaker 1: talking about this first charge right now. The big picture, Nancy,
32:41
Speaker 1: I think about intergenerational wealth and power and how almost
32:45
Speaker 1: every family that has power over the people around them
32:50
Speaker 1: has one crazy, messy sociopathic family member. I mean, we
32:54
Speaker 1: were talking about the royal family member Prince Andrew. You know,
32:58
Speaker 1: he is hanging out with freet with with Epstein, and
33:02
Speaker 1: then they try to clean him up afterwards, make him
33:04
Speaker 1: look good. But in that BBC interview he really reveals
33:09
Speaker 1: his associations with Epstein. You can't clean up crazy, Nancy.
33:13
Speaker 1: So seeing the senior Murdoch in the courtroom, it's like
33:17
Speaker 1: the family's craziest, messiest, sociopathic, drug addicted, homicidal, larcenous family
33:29
Speaker 1: member on display for the jurors and everyone to see.
33:33
Speaker 1: And do you think they're going to be caring about
33:35
Speaker 1: Snapchat when they have this Craig Craig guy in front
33:38
Speaker 1: of them. I really don't think. So. This is going
33:41
Speaker 1: to be a study in sociopathy and everybody's going to
33:44
Speaker 1: learn that these guys are grandiose. They think they're in charge,
33:48
Speaker 1: they think that they control the system. And just a
33:51
Speaker 1: brief comment on all the cell phones and the apps
33:54
Speaker 1: that were open that night. To me, this is like
33:56
Speaker 1: one big family therapy session. When I was thinking about this,
33:59
Speaker 1: see where the family members did, see where they go
34:02
Speaker 1: we did the families? Did they have dinner together that night?
34:05
Speaker 1: And then did he start swirling around in the dog
34:08
Speaker 1: kennel and in the kitchen and wherever he stored his guns.
34:12
Speaker 1: We're going to know a lot from where he ambled
34:15
Speaker 1: around the house during that night, and I'm sure it
34:17
Speaker 1: was not in intimate settings with his family. Wow, that's
34:21
Speaker 1: one of the first times I've ever heard you not
34:23
Speaker 1: work in sato mastotism. I was just waiting for it.
34:27
Speaker 1: It didn't happen in masturbating. Just let yeah that too.
34:33
Speaker 1: But I don't think that Alex murnog is in any sense,
34:36
Speaker 1: crazy in the legal sense. In other words, didn't know
34:39
Speaker 1: right from wrong at the time of the incident because
34:41
Speaker 1: there was too much cover up. Chris Buyer's joining with
34:44
Speaker 1: joining me former police chief John's Creek all the four
34:47
Speaker 1: twenty five years now private investigator and polygrapher at Lancaster
34:53
Speaker 1: Information Lancaster Services dot Com. Chris Buyer, I think it's
34:58
Speaker 1: very significant what people do and what they don't do.
35:03
Speaker 1: And I think it's significant if it's true that Alex
35:07
Speaker 1: and Murlog turned off location services on his device. Oh yeah,
35:12
Speaker 1: that's that's hugely telling. We know our devices, we have
35:16
Speaker 1: them all the time, are connected to him, and as
35:19
Speaker 1: an investigators then one of the greatest tools in solving
35:23
Speaker 1: cases the last you know, several years up to a decade.
35:26
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, very curious that he found a reason
35:29
Speaker 1: to turn that off, especially when he was, you know,
35:31
Speaker 1: at his house. Um so, yeah, that's very telling to
35:35
Speaker 1: me as an investigator for sure. Chris Biers, what do
35:37
Speaker 1: you make of his smiling and ultimately smirking demeanor in
35:42
Speaker 1: the courtroom. I think I think the the one that
35:47
Speaker 1: spoke before nailed it. I think he's just got an
35:49
Speaker 1: ore of all he's getting away from with things from
35:53
Speaker 1: a family of privilege, and I think he's just not
35:56
Speaker 1: feeling the pressure of it. No one that you know,
35:59
Speaker 1: history is always been on his side as far as
36:01
Speaker 1: his family and getting all some different things that they
36:04
Speaker 1: were accused of, and I think he's just got that
36:06
Speaker 1: air of arrogance. Well, he's definitely had a makeover. And
36:10
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a classic makeover. Or the Menendez brothers.
36:13
Speaker 1: They look like two college freshmen when they went in
36:16
Speaker 1: on trial for the murders of their mother and father.
36:20
Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking about what's happening in the courtroom
36:22
Speaker 1: right now. I want you to take a listen to
36:24
Speaker 1: our cut one twenty eight, our friends at GMA. Murdoch
36:28
Speaker 1: is facing more than one hundred finance related charges, accused
36:31
Speaker 1: of stealing more than eight and a half million dollars
36:34
Speaker 1: from more than a dozen victims, friends, family, and clients
36:37
Speaker 1: of his family's law firm. This was a long standing,
36:40
Speaker 1: prominent family in the area and that's going to have
36:43
Speaker 1: a lot of impact on our jurors. This is going
36:45
Speaker 1: to be a very long process to get to jurors
36:47
Speaker 1: that are not biased by this family's long standing presence.
36:50
Speaker 1: In this community. The presiding judge in this case issued
36:54
Speaker 1: an order last month saying any identifying information about the
36:57
Speaker 1: jurors who serve in this trial cannot be disclosed. The
37:00
Speaker 1: trials expected to last about three weeks. Prosecutors are seeking
37:04
Speaker 1: life in prison to Mark Tate, high profile lawyer are
37:06
Speaker 1: joining us from the Tate Law Group in Savannah, just
37:09
Speaker 1: in the shadow of this courthouse, Mark Tate, do you
37:12
Speaker 1: believe these jurs will be or should be sequestered put
37:17
Speaker 1: in a hotel? Well? I mean, you know, Nancy, You've
37:19
Speaker 1: tried tons of criminal cases. You know how much jurors
37:25
Speaker 1: hate to be sequestered. Do you blame them? I hate
37:29
Speaker 1: to even travel away from my twins, I do it,
37:32
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, who wants an angry juror in
37:35
Speaker 1: the box? Yeah? And the defense feels the same way.
37:40
Speaker 1: You know they're going to punish somebody, and you want
37:43
Speaker 1: to make things as easy as possible. And in all honesty,
37:46
Speaker 1: I have found when I've tried high profile civil cases,
37:50
Speaker 1: jurors listen to judges and the judges admonish them every
37:56
Speaker 1: single day and inquire every single morning. Don't pay attention
38:01
Speaker 1: to the press, don't talk about it. And I tend
38:05
Speaker 1: to think they take that seriously. If they're not going
38:08
Speaker 1: to take it seriously, they're going to sneak information when
38:10
Speaker 1: they're western. If they're going to take it seriously, they're
38:13
Speaker 1: going to take it seriously at home. You know, I've
38:16
Speaker 1: never been on a jury. I've always been stricken, believe
38:19
Speaker 1: it or not. But I do know that people. I've
38:24
Speaker 1: seen near domestic violence situations of husbands and wives trying
38:28
Speaker 1: to get them to each other to talk about what
38:30
Speaker 1: happened in a jury or what's going on in a trial.
38:33
Speaker 1: And so I tend to think that there. I tend
38:36
Speaker 1: to think that they believe and trust and try to
38:38
Speaker 1: adhere what the judge tells them. I think it's a
38:41
Speaker 1: tough call for either side to insist on sequestration. And
38:44
Speaker 1: if I were the one sitting there defending Murdoch, first
38:50
Speaker 1: of all, I would have emptied out every single bank
38:54
Speaker 1: account he has for a paid an advanced fee before
38:57
Speaker 1: I set foot to defend him. Man, you're not kids
39:00
Speaker 1: rule number one in criminal defense. Cash up front, That's right,
39:04
Speaker 1: because you know if you walk him, and he might,
39:07
Speaker 1: you're not getting paid a dime by that redhead pool. No,
39:11
Speaker 1: not any go ahead, And Emerson, Oh, I just wanted
39:14
Speaker 1: to let you know. Right now they're going through finding
39:16
Speaker 1: out exactly how all of jurors know about what's going
39:20
Speaker 1: on into Alec Murdoch case. They're finding out what they're
39:24
Speaker 1: they're finding out. They're asking each juror, how do you
39:27
Speaker 1: know about this case? Got to you listening to and
39:30
Speaker 1: we're hearing over and over again at the lot of
39:31
Speaker 1: word of mouth in this little community. You can't underestimate
39:34
Speaker 1: a little community with a good grapevine and Coleton County
39:38
Speaker 1: is all about it. Well, I mean the thing is
39:40
Speaker 1: in any high profile cases, people have heard about it,
39:42
Speaker 1: heard about it ahead of time, or whether it's on
39:44
Speaker 1: TV and the newspaper online. So the issue is can
39:48
Speaker 1: they be honest jurars and decide that come up with
39:54
Speaker 1: a decision based on what they hear in court? And
39:57
Speaker 1: Emerson got a question for you. He's facing over one
40:00
Speaker 1: hundred other finance related charges. But what charges well this
40:06
Speaker 1: jury here about? Oh boy, that is right now. What
40:09
Speaker 1: they've got to decide now from what I've been told
40:12
Speaker 1: from Yeah, what what they want to know is whether
40:18
Speaker 1: or not these financial crimes, all ninety nine of them
40:20
Speaker 1: are going to show up as the motive for why
40:24
Speaker 1: this double murder has But is he being tried for
40:28
Speaker 1: those in front of the jury, right, they were severed.
40:33
Speaker 1: They were severed, correct An Emerson, They are absolutely severed.
40:37
Speaker 1: They are severed from from that. But this is a
40:40
Speaker 1: question can they be brought in because he hasn't been
40:42
Speaker 1: convicted of these crimes yet, So because they haven't been convicted,
40:46
Speaker 1: the judge has to rule on allowing these crimes to
40:48
Speaker 1: be brought in as the motive. And the motive is
40:52
Speaker 1: very clearly from the state to that he had a
40:58
Speaker 1: confrontation right before these double murders occurred. The state is
41:04
Speaker 1: saying that he used these double murders as a distraction
41:09
Speaker 1: and a way to gain sympathy from the public, from
41:13
Speaker 1: his family, from all of these people, to get the
41:16
Speaker 1: heat off. That is what the motive is that the
41:19
Speaker 1: state is saying. That's a tough tough call, a very
41:23
Speaker 1: tough call for this judge whether to allow in prior
41:28
Speaker 1: acts financial fraud to the team of millions to show motive.
41:33
Speaker 1: The jury is being selected right now. We are live
41:35
Speaker 1: at the courthouse. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,