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From Going Along to Showing Up | A Nine's Wholehearted Journey with Meredith · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for Real Life.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, last week, Deanna Sudom and I got to explore the Enneagram Nine.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: We covered things like the Nines longing for peace, the struggle to find their voice, and ultimately the invitation to wake up to their own desires without fear of disrupting connection.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now, because I love to highlight how you use Enneagram in real life, I have invited a wholehearted client and now friend, Meredith, who is an Enneagram 9 and who has lived and been on this wholehearted journey.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know the story is going to encourage you, whether you're nine or you love an Enneagram 9, because transformation isn't about having it all figured out.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's just about brave, wholehearted steps.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, Meredith, thank you for being here and sharing your story today.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's exciting.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know this conversation is going to go by too fast, and there's going to be more questions that I have or my friend who's listening has.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll put all the ways to connect with you and with me, depending on where your questions would want to be directed.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I want to start off with how your journey began specifically in recognizing the type 9 pattern.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: What was happening at that time in your life?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: What were the ways that it stood out to you, or who pointed it out to you?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: How did that journey go?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually funny because I actually originally typed myself wrong.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I found the Enneagram.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was like 2016.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I had just had my last baby and felt lost.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, let me, what is this?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let me look into it.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I first typed myself as a six, um, as a loyalist.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh yeah, this feels right.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: This feels right.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And now looking back, I realized it was just because I wasn't healthy.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit stressed in that season of the city.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit, a little bit.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: I had four littles at home and I just didn't really know who I was anymore.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, and then I got talking to my sister about it, and she said, Oh, that's so funny.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I always thought you'd be a three.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, interesting.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm the older sister, so that made sense in some ways.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I just kept reading about it and I would take tests every so often.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I realized that the threes and the sixes and the nines all connect, I was like, oh, wait a minute.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And just reading more and realizing that I really fluctuated just depending on where I was and what was going on and how I was reacting.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it just made a lot more sense.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: I am a nine.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: I use both of my wings.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you do.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the journey of figuring out what it even was.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Miss Typing Club.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely am a part of that.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I also tend to push a little bit when someone said they took a test and this is their type.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, have you done it the wholehearted way?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's just a maybe a different way, a narrative way to do it.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would wonder for you, because the three, six, nine connection makes so much sense.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: We won't dive into that today specifically.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: But what what were some of the feelings around when you did find that nine?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: When that was the true lens.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a sense of relief?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Did it answer more than ask questions?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Or were you going, oh my gosh, like how where do I begin?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: It really, I think it made me feel seen when I realized I was like, oh, wait a minute.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that is me.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I react to those things.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, there's other people that feel that way too.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when I feel like when I I felt understood, like I wasn't just reacting in weird ways and nobody else understood it.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know a lot of nines in my daily life.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So to hear other people saying, Oh, I do this all the time, was like, oh, okay, wait a minute.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's just because that's how I am, not that I'm doing something wrong.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that part I felt like I had I was seen finally when I read that description.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you recognize the pattern, and I love that you throw it's a throwback to 2016.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: That was a while ago.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: That was 10 years ago, which is hard to believe.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you knew the Enneagram, and to your point, maybe you hadn't done it the wholehearted way.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you recognize the pattern and you were able to name it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really great because recognition does help, but recognition alone doesn't often create change.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So what made you decide that you didn't want to stay where you were or that you needed a little bit of a of support because you couldn't stay here anymore?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's funny because when I first found the Enneagram, I was blogging, it was 2016, that's what people did.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote a post, and again, it was a wrong type, but it I titled it This is where I suck.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like that was how I was recognizing myself of these are all of the ways that I'm not healthy.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like these are all of my faults.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was how I looked at it the first time.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So when I finally typed myself correctly, it was almost like, okay, I feel seen, and there are other people like me.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And for a while I just stayed in that this is just how I am.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is just how I am, and see there are other people like me, and it's okay and it's fine, and this is why I am the way I am.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like I stayed there for a little while of just being like, There are other people like me, this is just how I am, and it's okay.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's why it took me so long to once I finally found you're a nine and you use these traits and this is how you are, and and then realizing that like the struggle of a nine is sloth or inertia, that I was like, oh, wait a minute.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: If I am I just saying that because that's the thing I struggle with.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the thing that's keeping me in this pattern because that's the thing that I struggle with?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And am I just making excuses for myself?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And my kids are, it's been 10 years, my kids are older now, they are their own people, they are fully embracing who they are and their personalities and all the differences and um realizing that they need a healthy me in order to handle that dynamic of being a mom of four pre and teenagers now.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're not little.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot more personal interactions each and every day that are really important.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I knew needed a little bit of a push to be better, to not just stay in that spot.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's nothing like transition, life transition, whether it's we're emptiness is looming or we have entered into these teenage years, which are can be really fun and really wonderful, but also incredibly pressing.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if I were to dramaticize it and say, what was at stake if you didn't change, articulate that for me.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely a relational stake for sure.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Of I want a relationship that is going to be healthy for my kids and myself moving forward.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: But also, we had my father-in-law passed away last year, and we started navigating just a whole new realm of conversations and emotions and interactions that were hard for everybody.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was really a catalyst for me, too.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Of I could no longer nines tend to put themselves on the back burner for sure, and make a lot of excuses about why I'm not important.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that was an event that was you you couldn't do that.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody was hurting, and everybody had a reason to hurt.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it was that was also a catalyst of no, you need something too.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was the oxygen mask, you know, of put your own on first so that you can be there for these people and help them.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I want that relationship with them.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to have a healthy relationship moving forward with my family and realizing that that doesn't really wait.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, each every day matters for that, whether you want it to or not.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're building something forward either way.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: If I could celebrate something here of and share a little bit of a personal piece of this, is that you came to me in the midst of this loss and navigating, but you also had a dream in your heart to pursue a coaching business.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just want to push on that a little bit because that is a tension that most women feel for different reasons.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's different fears, even different shapes of that desire.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And what I loved is that you came to this realization that there probably was a both.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: I can navigate this grief with my family and be available for them and also pursue this thing that I can't shake.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And even though it feels very inconvenient in its timing, I feel like I need to go there.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Would that be true?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it made me acknowledge myself, definitely.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: I had gotten my coaching certification just before all this happened.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there was already that like, I'm doing this for myself, and this is exciting and it's new.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then it we had this tragedy, and I was like, this is also taking care of me in a way that pushes me.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it was funny because I did come to you thinking that it would mostly be about my business and my coaching, and it ended up being that, and also so much more because it made it like when you were talking about the wholehearted way, it made it sustainable, like it because it was changing my heart and it was coming from a place that was healthy, and it was a place that I felt like God had blessed because it was using what he gave me, but doing it in a a direction and doing it in a healthy way, I guess is the best way to say it.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I felt called to, I felt like that's what he wanted me to do, but also not denying that piece of myself of like, no, I did make you this way.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like not to use it as an excuse as you've been doing for the last however long, but to as a starting point.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well said.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because we like to say here, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuck point.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that's on blue in that face.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's just so good.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I want my friend who's listening to hear this both and idea because there is never a perfect moment in our life where everything falls into place.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I promise you, the moment you do step out into this thing that the Lord has compelled you to, often tied to big dreams or things that feel beyond you, life hits the fan.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's just I have not had a moment of peace in the 10 years focused on this specific business.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that is one, it's resistance.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Two, it's life.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And three, it is just uh like what it is that we're gonna have to deal with.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the inevitable thing.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when we're going after something hard, the life is amplified.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the third funny.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like life just gets amplified.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's life, but then it gets amplified because we think, oh, I have to choose, or how am I gonna divide, or this is hard.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because the going after your dream is never easy, it requires something out of us.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when we go, there's too many demands, we tend to just throw our desires and our dreams to the side.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Am I right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, and and for really good excuses of such good excuses.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: These people are important to me, and I want to give them all of this attention.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where I want to be present right now.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: And right, I could give you books worth of lists.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think the woman listening now is shaking their head.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have a few of those.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important to understand the reasons you don't go after your dreams oftentimes are for really good reasons.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the good being the enemy of the great or the best, and not from what's being demanded of you.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm all for just doing good work and getting it out there.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: But what I mean is the good demands overriding the best call that the Lord has and learning how to respond to that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I I there's a lot I would want to unpack here, but what I think I want to highlight here because you exemplify it in this moment, and I love it because this is where I want nines to really tune in to this piece.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And those who love a nine, this is going to be really important because nines are known for their easy-going attitude and usually laid back and right and the bow.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Accommodating, maybe even acquiescing.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: But the nine is in the gut triad with the eights and the ones, which means there is a stubborn streak underneath the beautiful piece you exemplify.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit more.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: You and I did a lot of work around this.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: We had some giggles about it.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: We also had really some beautiful epiphanies, but how does the stubbornness show up for you as a nine?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And how can you have some examples?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like those moments that you dug in your heels behind the scenes, even while I'm going along or pretending to go along in a way.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because the stubborn piece is actually one of the pieces that made me realize when I took your assessment and it was talking about when you were young.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Can you remember back to how you would have reacted to this, not as an adult, but as a teenager or a young adult?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the piece that I was like, ooh, yes.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I am definitely in this, in the right, right area here.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I am a very stubborn person, especially when it comes to fairness, when it comes to things being right or wrong.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's very clear black and white for that for me.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so there were certain things where I would notice that, like, oh no, no, no, no.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm gonna protect that thing or that time.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it would be weird.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: They would be weird things where I'd be like, no, I'm not giving up whatever, my seat in the car because you want that.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it would just be really weird stuff that I'd be like, no, I wanted that.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and learning how to make those better, like let that come out when I decided to, rather than like being pushed into those and choosing, no, I'm gonna protect that time, even though this other thing came up.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna make arrangements for you to do that, and I'm gonna do this.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whether it was something like a coaching client that I really wanted to do a meeting with, or whether it was even just something for myself that I had said, no, I was gonna go out and have lunch with a friend.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna reschedule, or something for me that I knew that I wanted, and using that as a positive trait instead of a reactionary trait.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So good.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Which I felt like I was I would sometimes get pushed into, or sometimes I would resist with that stubbornness.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sir Like, no, I absolutely cannot make that work.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this whole the identity shift is a key to in this whole piece, right?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it's awareness, it's identity work, but then in that identity, because ultimately we're understanding our belovedness and owning it, we begin to out of that comes we're loving ourselves and then loving others as we love ourselves.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that means we respond instead of react.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is where for nines, that reaction is the stubbornness coming out sideways and maybe majoring on the minors.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is inconsequential.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like the seats, it doesn't really matter, but I'm upset because five choices ago you didn't even ask me or you bulldoze over what I offered.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And now I want my seat, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Even though it doesn't really matter in the end.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: The seat in the car doesn't matter, but yes.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I've learned a little bit more just speaking up earlier of yeah, you know, or of saying, ooh, that didn't really sit right with me.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Can we talk about it?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is important if you're listening and you are a nine, to take that into consideration.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: We usually have a lot of nice fluffy things to say about a nine, they're all true.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: But is there a streak of stubbornness that tends to sabotage the connection that you desire and the unity you long for?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, to take note of it and consider that.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: But then those who love a nine to go when your nine has these moments and the reaction takes you off guard.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Consider what this is coming from.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that obviously in the moment a calm conversation doesn't usually happen, but to take time to unpack what got your loved one to that point where they felt dismissed and overlooked, undervalued five steps back from that decision or from that reaction, reactive moment to see what it you what you can do, where you can invite them to that conversation sooner, take an opportunity for maybe an apology, even, and invite your nine to that awareness process in a loving way, not forced or demanded of.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think these are important clues that can really help our relationship.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there are things that I've noticed have really helped me even as recently as yesterday.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was my birthday weekend, and we had so many things going on.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was like we had this and we had that, and we had, and it was like, you know, my husband said, What do you want to do?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I don't know.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I want to do.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and he was patient with me.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Okay, when you decide, let me know.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because he's learned about me that if he pushes right at that moment, it will come out sideways.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I but I do have an opinion about it.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just have to figure it out.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you need the time because I want it to honor everybody as a nine.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I want to I see it from all the perspectives, I see it from the kids who want to do the thing that they were invited to do, and that event that we were invited to that they really wanted us to come, and we have this obligation that we need to meet, and I would like to honor all of that and still do something that feels special.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's honors your desires.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it took me a little while.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, though, I was like, okay, this is what I want to do.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to go to this, do this, and then come home and have sushi at home.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, and not go and not go out to dinner.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, okay, we can do that.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so being patient and giving enough space for me to be able to process all of the things and then come to the thing that I really wanted was super generous and wonderful.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we had a great time.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I also had to realize that no, there was a piece of that I wanted.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: There were parts of it that I couldn't control, but there was a piece of it that I had a choice in.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if I didn't say it, that was on me.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to call those our hero moments where we exercise agency.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes those hero moments are big.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that moment you said yes to coaching, whether to start your own business or to get the help, and those little micro hero moments of going, even Even if it's you going, oh, I need a minute to decide.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can you come back if our loved one doesn't have that insider understanding to give us a minute to let it breathe?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: But to saying that and then going, yeah, what is mine to control?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Where can I state my needs and desires and ones and go for it?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: I that illustration will preach all day long.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing that.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that you had one of those birthdays where you're like, yeah, this was the sweet side.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: No birthday is perfect, especially as a mom, an adult.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Grown-up birthdays are different.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's so different.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want to shift to the faith and spiritual integration piece because you and I both know that without that, the wholehearted way isn't the full way.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, lately, the conversation even with some of my coaches has been if I have a client who doesn't share my faith, what does that look like?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we all go, it's possible to still learn the Enneagram the wholehearted way, but this piece of faith is a huge factor in the lasting transformation.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd just love to hear from you because I know this has been a big part of it.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So how is your faith, a relationship with God, intercepted this work that you've done, uh that you and I have gotten to do together?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I think it's it's a surrender piece where it's a safe place to give up that control.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that when I that's beautiful, when I want to control everything, that's kind of a sign of like, oh, hold on a second.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you need to take a step back.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Take notice.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and or when I find myself trying to strive for that ideal of that unattainable level of expectation that I have for myself of like, okay, well, wait a minute, let me kind of take this back to what does God say?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: What you know, what does He expect from me?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what is reasonable then to expect from myself.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that has definitely helped me in being like, hold up a second, let's rewind it a little bit.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I am still working very hard on the whole stillness practice.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, uh, everyone I know that's true.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't come naturally, it does not, it does not, but it's also been interesting.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that we worked on was that communication stance, which was new to me, definitely from looking at how a nine typically communicates.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because I notice that um a nine is a withdrawing stance of tending to pull back, and I notice that significantly with my faith journey.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: If I notice that I'm pulling away, that really affects me.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so looking at that for my relationship with the Lord has been one of the most because his doesn't change, right?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So like that has to be me and working with other people.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm talking about my kids or my husband, it could be them too.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's two sides of that.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: When it's me and the Lord, it's a little bit different, and that's been eye-opening of nope, this is you, this is you reacting differently or behaving differently or changing what how you're doing it.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's been something that has helped me be a little curious and just interesting to kind of think about of like, oh, that's how you interact with everybody.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a little bit more obvious when when I'm looking at my relationship with the Lord.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I'm pulling away, I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Let me maybe that's something I need to spend some more stillness time with.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Mariden, that is beautifully said.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: That insight alone is so transformative when we realize, oh, it's not God, it's me.
• 25:57
  unknown: Yeah.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's a peas, and even that you can name beautifully, that God is consistent, that He isn't the one backing off.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what does that look like for you to not have again going back to what your natural operation or reaction would be, which is to pull away, to withdraw, to retreat, to pull in, to hide, to numb.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm listing I'm listing the long list.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: But but those are the things like and I don't necessarily notice them as quickly in my real life because it's a busy real life.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it's so much easier for me to point fingers of like, well, they're just being fill in the blank.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, because we can usually it takes two.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: That is so good, Merida.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing that.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was really beautiful.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I think your birthday story was a prime example of how you show up differently today.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of curious if there's something else that comes to mind, or just what you would list as something that was a huge breakthrough or a growth moment in this last year, really.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think not expecting myself to A, have all the answers and B, do it perfectly has been a really big thing.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was really funny because I had pulled out a couple of notes from different sessions that we'd had as I was thinking back through.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you say all the time of your starting point is not your stuck point, and progress means you just start again because you're never starting from the same place.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and one of the things that we had talked about months ago was like releasing that responsibility of not having to control everything.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I forget even now that some of the things that are the way they are right now in our family weren't that way six months ago, five months ago, three months ago.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so easy for me to just think that this starting point is where we've always been, but it's not where we've always been.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: So reflecting a little bit is something that I'm trying to do more.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, of like, no, that we're still moving forward, even if it's not where I want it to be.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you know that critical spirit keeps coming in, it's like, wait a minute, hold on.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's not where we started.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we're starting again today with something else, but that's not where it'll be next month or next week.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think reflecting back in a positive way, not just mall over the things that aren't going well, and to notice progress to keep that that forward movement and not be stuck, you know, to be able to acknowledge, oh no, those things are new and improving and and you can keep going and you don't have to keep hiding or steering or circling.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: I really powerful.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what I would how I would sum that up, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the practice of gratitude versus ruminating when it comes to reflecting back, which nines are good at reflecting back, but can tend to focus, hyper focus on the negative of what didn't go well.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so in that or how it used to be better.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: The nostalgia kicks in and is overwhelming.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: So if we pair instead, nostalgia's not bad.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Noticing what went wrong isn't terrible either.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: But if we stay there instead of shifting to a place of gratitude, then we cannot celebrate where we are.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the celebration is such a key piece to growth.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we're not celebrating what's motivating, why keep going?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Why keep trying?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's definitely something I'm still working on.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um as my kids let me know, they're like, You always pick out the things we're doing wrong.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to be hard.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working on that too.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yes, you know, just being able to not just nostalgic look back, but to say, like, okay, all right, this is better than it was.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've we've made progress here.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: This has improved.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and not just keep making plans, but stopping for a second to say yes.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're doing okay.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is that will be so helpful to someone listening today.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Our last question, because our time has gone so quickly.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: What would you tell an Enneagram9 who's just starting this journey?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someone who's recognizing the pattern and has said, uh, the pattern's great, but what now?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: What what's next?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think what I've come to realize is that seeing all sides of something is a strength.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to make myself wrong for feeling however I did, because I could always put myself in everybody else's shoes and explain away why I shouldn't be this way.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: If that makes sense.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'd be like, I'd feel a certain way, and I'd be like, Oh, but I can see where they're coming from.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that must make me wrong, and I have to be wrong about it, and seeing that now more as a gift, and not making it mean that I'm wrong, that I can just still feel that way, but I can appreciate what they're feeling and still let myself not be right or wrong, just be, and that's okay.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: I said at the beginning, I used to look at the Enneagram of like, this is where I'm terrible, this is where I suck, like these are all of my negatives, and I've got to fix them.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: But being able to see some of those things as a gift that not everybody has, that you know, other people may not be able to do that.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can share that piece of it, it doesn't necessarily make you wrong for reacting a certain way or for being a certain way, but that you can use it as a starting point.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that it just is, and that can be enough.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that being able to see yourself in a true light, not just other people in a true light, in the best light.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: For me, that has been one of the biggest things that I've taken away.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: That if I can give grace to other people, I can also give it to myself.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, that's right.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And how beautiful it is when we do that, because I think then our grace we're offering is truer and richer and more meaningful.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there really isn't any resentment hanging over.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're not disappointing somebody.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, Meredith, thank you for really sharing the true authentic journey of whether it was like what it looked like to speak up for your birthday, the truth about stubbornness related to Enneagram 9s, the even the mistyping and the journey there and when you were finally willing to say, okay, I'm ready to do the work.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ready to not just stay stuck here, but to move forward and to pursue your dreams.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have gotten to witness since beautiful, such beautiful transformation every single time.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yes, Lord, I it just, but what I want to say here that just in celebrating you, when you came in, you showed up authentically, but you also did that in our sessions and you came with a humble, teachable heart.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that makes all the difference in this process, knowing that someone else is not only willing to help me, but could.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't always have to be this way.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: There is something better, is really powerful to keep you going.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing this.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, because so much of this work was facilitated by you showing that mirror.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you can that you do that, and you do that so well.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm grateful.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely grateful.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a joy.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks be to God for sure.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like this is a perfect time to say as well, where maybe some of these insights that you go, okay, maybe everything I've read so far about Enneagram has made me just kind of go, oh, well, it is what it is.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the way I am.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I want to invite my friend listening.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am going to be releasing a book called Wholehearted Enneagram next month, April 14th, to be exact.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I specifically have run it in this wholehearted way, where I believe even if you've read other Enneagram books, you haven't read this Enneagram book.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't done it the wholehearted way, where it's really going to propel you into the next steps of transformation for as far as you want to go and as deep as you want to take it.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for coming on here.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you have more questions for an Enneagram 9, Meredith is your gal.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead and reach out to her.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: We'll put the ways to connect with her.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have more questions about what it looks like to go through this coaching process that Meredith alluded to, I'm happy to get your name on a wait list and I will reach out as soon as a spot opens up.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Meredith.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you, friend, for listening.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, your presence is what brings peace.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to go along to belong.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: You are loved.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Meredith.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your step point.