Latest / The Sports Card CEO Podcast / Episode 41, S2: Official Post-2026 National Recap | Big Matt & Little Matt Takeover

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Episode 41, S2: Official Post-2026 National Recap | Big Matt & Little Matt Takeover · The Sports Card CEO Podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_04]: What is happening in SportsCard CEO community?
0:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Little Matt Big Matt here for our follow-up on the 2026 National in Chicago.
0:25
[SPEAKER_02]: a 47-D season and a season of life in the other and naturely baseball history from one of the Koenia Junior.
0:35
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a drag right on the Man of Heaven, the Man of Heaven, the amazing, he is heavy.
0:41
[SPEAKER_03]: He hits this one hard, he hits the Man of Heaven, like Trump, that's right, the Man of Heaven.
0:48
[SPEAKER_00]: What's up, guys?
0:49
[SPEAKER_00]: My truck, and listen to Sports Park CEO, his current bubble on hand.
0:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Today, you're going to get everything from our perspective about the biggest card show on the planet.
1:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Little Matt, what's up, buddy?
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: What's up, dude?
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: How you doing?
1:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Good, man.
1:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Happy birthday to you.
1:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Big sticks team today.
1:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Ladies and gentlemen, watch out.
1:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Matthew has his license.
1:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's already propositioning me to let him drive to every card show on the planet.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think it's reasonable, but dude, I'm glad to get my license and it's going to have a good time driving around today.
1:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, sir.
1:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, sir.
1:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, listen man.
1:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Happy birthday.
1:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm sure our community listeners would say the same glad that you and I could do a little episode here post national and really kind of catch all of our listeners up.
1:34
[SPEAKER_04]: First of all, we met so many of you guys at the national and just how fantastic was that Matthew.
1:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It was amazing.
1:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the amount of support amount of people that came out of me and they were like, I love what you guys are doing was just amazing.
1:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you to all of you that, you know, said something reached out.
1:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We always really appreciate it.
1:51
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, and it goes without saying, I mean, Bubba and Kern are a huge part of this and they have not been on the show as much lately, just because of, you know, kind of season of life and summertime and all that kind of stuff and we tend to be the ones who are traveling to the shows anyway, so we kind of are the field reporters for the CEOs, you know, we talked about and Kern weekly behind the scenes and just right now we're kind of running with the show content, but we've got
2:12
[SPEAKER_04]: a lot of stuff that's coming up in the future.
2:14
[SPEAKER_04]: We're working on some content ideas, we're working on some continued guest partnerships and stuff.
2:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And so thank you guys so much for your support there.
2:21
[SPEAKER_04]: A special shout out to one of our biggest listeners that is Raja, our boy Raja met Raja and person, got to talk with him and do what I mean again, multiple of you guys, but just especially Raja, very poignant questions.
2:32
[SPEAKER_04]: We had a great conversation around a lot of different stuff and so just shout out to Raja for being great.
2:39
[SPEAKER_04]: on the voicemail for us to listen to.
2:41
[SPEAKER_04]: We've entered those on the show.
2:42
[SPEAKER_04]: If you want to do that, you can call 888 pod CEOs and leave a voicemail.
2:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Also check out the sportscard.co.com and stay in touch that way, of course, on Instagram as well.
2:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So a little Matt, your initial gut check on the national, I want to talk about a few things.
2:57
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to talk about the national specifically.
2:59
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to break this into segments for our listeners.
3:00
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to talk about the national specifically.
3:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to talk about grading, specifically grading on site with the introduction of MBA and some of those things.
3:08
[SPEAKER_04]: That's pretty interesting topic.
3:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we're going to talk about like finding value in the hobby right now.
3:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's a really important topic.
3:15
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we'll also have a little bit of baseball discussion on the tail end of the episode.
3:18
[SPEAKER_04]: So coming out of the national Matthew, what was kind of your biggest takeaway this year as your fourth national?
3:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the amount of foot traffic is my first takeaway.
3:27
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a line
3:30
[SPEAKER_01]: like 25 yards just to get up into the elevator.
3:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there was a line to get up into the elevator to get upstairs to the international land.
3:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't know already, the national adds something called the international dealer tables where if you were international and from another country you could get a dealer table and there was over 50 dealers from eight different countries what you got to see there.
3:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw a lot of soccer, a lot of F1, a lot of Disney,
3:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And that just shows how big those markets are worldwide.
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the soccer market was huge in the international lounge.
4:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: There was that and there was some really good inventory up there.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I've made three or four deals just up in the international part.
4:10
[SPEAKER_04]: So real quick before we get further talk about the foot traffic.
4:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So one of the things that I want to say, you know, to our listeners, hey, if you were at the national would love to hear your thoughts on the foot traffic.
4:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Secondarily, if you've not gone to the national, I'd love to hear is it's something that you want to do.
4:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Like when you watch videos on the national, does it make you want to go?
4:27
[SPEAKER_04]: or does it make you want to stay away because I'll tell you this our first national four years ago was in Chicago and it was a really good experience you know we've been fortunate to have media passes kind of from day one because of some of the content creation and that's part of our role the national is to create content.
4:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we're able to get in and maybe get in early, you know, in some cases to shoot video and so for so that's a benefit, I will tell you this, I personally feel like the national should consider raising the price on their VIP passes and maybe even selling more of those and then limiting their number number of general admission tickets.
5:04
[SPEAKER_04]: you know it's hard to think about paying you know five hundred dollars to get into a card show but when secondary VIP passes are selling for a thousand dollars like you have a demand that is overmarket value that that's what this whole hobby is about.
5:19
[SPEAKER_04]: secondary market pricing when you have a demand for something that is above market value that's what causes secondary pricing to increase national tickets are a perfect example so anyway that's a little my little free tip to the national team if they listen really increase the VIP numbers and then reduce the GAs and you could raise ticket prices I think it's still get away with it
5:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the VIP pass was 250, I think you could raise it to $500, double, and make two times as many, and you literally quadruple your VIP sales.
5:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I think two, and they were thinking about the VIP thing, you know, you've got access, you have the VIP trade lounge and all that kind of stuff, and that's probably where they limit the numbers, honestly, with the VIP trade lounge, like how many people it would hold, because it was, it was that, yeah, it was a, I will say this, the VIP trade lounge
6:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, absolutely, because you had people, I mean, you did nothing, you got to consider it.
6:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Dealers are all like the excuse they always make.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm having to pay money from my table.
6:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people are having to pay that much for VIP passes.
6:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So like just going, and they would just set their cards on the table and not we'd probably made five or six deals just in the VIP ones.
6:25
[SPEAKER_01]: My little brothers crushed in the VIP lounge.
6:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and we've got we've got an announcement to make about the twins and hamhouse sports expanding here at the end of the show So you kind of hang on for that, but you know, I would say this cheat code at the national is about VIP passes and just set up in the VIP lounge and stay off the show floor I guarantee you if you did VIP and trade nights You would do just as well as if you were on the show floor
6:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Another thing I found out so I went the what not to tell you if you know what I'm talking about national You know exactly I'm talking about but if you do not know it's the loudest most chaotic place You've ever been in your life because it's like it's own little section of the show floor and There's probably 30 booths and they're all breakers or whatnot streamers and every single one of them has their little like game or something that they have
7:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So we the hobby have like a game where you would like pick a card, you know, which one's more valuable.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And cardboard 47 had a game where you'd spend a wheel and then this table had a place where you, you know, shoot basketball and it's really chaotic and there's a lot of people waiting in lines and it's really hard to get around there.
7:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've talked to a few re-packers or breakers that were in that area, and the national actually banned them from buying at their whatnot pizillion tables.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
7:37
[SPEAKER_01]: They could only buy walking around because they basically saying, y'all are paying the strongest in the room, y'all are going to have lines lining up for literally like hours.
7:46
[SPEAKER_01]: If people would you bring up cards to you?
7:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was trying to bring some cards to a buddy who set up there and he was like, I can't look at him here.
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had to go on a different part of the show forward and look at him.
7:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, couple.
7:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a couple of thoughts on that.
7:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say this is like for anybody who's in the hobby who wants to talk about breaking and livestream and whatever, like that is the hobby right now, like not the hobby entirely, but that is a core connection piece that is driving the hobby.
8:16
[SPEAKER_04]: It's significant right now and it's so interesting because what not's
8:20
[SPEAKER_04]: like legitimately due to i remember year one at what not they had a back four years ago there's a small little corporate booth now they had the entire middle section of the floor like the entire middle section of the floor so what not's presence is massive and again with
8:35
[SPEAKER_04]: fanatics live and, you know, all of the different corporate kind of jockying for position right now.
8:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, what not is a major mover and shaker?
8:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't see it slowing down anytime soon because they are pumping resources into making that platform a massive part of the hobby.
8:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah.
8:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was really chaotic, but the foot traffic, I mean, it was not the line to get in for general mission, but it was literally wrapped around the building, the line to get into trade night, wrapped around three different levels.
9:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how people started realizing that if you haven't been in national trade nights or where the best deals are made, I closed more deals at the first night Tuesday night at trade night buying, then I literally did like most of the days at the show.
9:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
9:22
[SPEAKER_04]: So, like very nice, well, I'm just listening, yeah.
9:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It always has, if you run or have some part of running the high-art regency hotel, yeah, we'll talk, that's to hold that thought, hold that thought.
9:33
[SPEAKER_04]: So, so, okay, a lot of stuff I'm going to put a closure on that.
9:36
[SPEAKER_04]: So, the crowds were ridiculous and good.
9:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, there's so many people interested in the hobby.
9:42
[SPEAKER_04]: You had major corporate presence, major presence from what not, all of that was significant.
9:47
[SPEAKER_04]: But
9:49
[SPEAKER_04]: from Rosemot, Illinois.
9:51
[SPEAKER_04]: If you run the town of Rosemot, Illinois, either city of Rosemot, whoever the city manager is there, you have to understand that a couple hundred thousand people have been coming there over however many years for these hotels to ban trading in the lobby like
10:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I get it from an insurance, liabilities, safety perspective, but they have got to figure out a way to capitalize on this, like higher extra staff, put up two extra bars, limit the number of people that can come in.
10:20
[SPEAKER_04]: People are willing to pay for this because this is what people are dying to do.
10:24
[SPEAKER_04]: They're trying to connect with other collectors in the hobby and get involved in trade nights.
10:28
[SPEAKER_04]: The high it shut it down, the low shut it down,
10:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, you know, the Hilton shut it down, the Sheraton shut it down, the Weston shut it down, all of these hotels shut down these trade nights.
10:40
[SPEAKER_04]: And so people were trying to figure out kind of where to go and what to do.
10:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And that made for an extra chaotic scene.
10:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, if you're listening to this and you have something to do with the height, Regency Hotel next to the Donald Stevens Commitress Center in Rosemot.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Please consider opening back up for Tray 9 next year.
10:56
[SPEAKER_01]: The amount of drinks I sold in that two days, probably exceeded your sales for the entire year, and it was incredible, obviously.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But you remember how good it was last year, train up the high at last year was absolutely incredible.
11:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Something I remember actually at the Cleveland National, two big guys in the hobby, rented out like a big space, and they sold out tables for a
11:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, probably trade night where you're going to start seeing that if if these businesses and and and hotels don't take the initiative private people are going to take the initiative like think about this dude if you rented out a private space after the national and you had like a high end you know trade night whatever and you sold tables and charged admission you'd have your own show.
11:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Like your own show, side to the national.
11:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, you know, I try to steal from the national.
11:44
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like when they're shutting this stuff down, there's opportunity there.
11:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So anyway, that was a big, big thing that was just on the forefront of my mind.
11:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Like do a better job planning for the fact that 250,000 however many people are coming.
11:56
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'll tell you this, Matthew, running the numbers like, I won't people to know this.
12:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Take a guess how much we personally spent to take me, you, and your brothers, the twins, to the national this year.
12:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Every counting food in Uber.
12:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Food Uber airplane flights hotels.
12:12
[SPEAKER_04]: What?
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like three cats.
12:14
[SPEAKER_04]: It was $6,000 for us to go to the national this year.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: No way.
12:19
[SPEAKER_04]: 1,000 percent.
12:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Hotel was 1,500.
12:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Hotel was 1,500.
12:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Food and beverage in Uber and travel and all of that kind of stuff was like 15 to 1,800.
12:30
[SPEAKER_04]: okay.
12:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We fit $1500 on food.
12:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Do for four people for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, five days.
12:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, absolutely.
12:38
[SPEAKER_04]: When you're buying, you know, $25 perky bowls and macaroni bowls in the national and $8 starbucks drinks, I mean, it adds up.
12:48
[SPEAKER_04]: and then on top of that we had the airplane flights which for four people we flew in for like two grand so net cost on everything was pretty close to six k and i started thinking about it to spend six thousand dollars to go to the national like that's pretty crazy no way that was six grand i promise it was six grand i thought we because the flights i i get but like no way we
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: you really six thousand dollars.
13:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yep.
13:15
[SPEAKER_04]: So so a dad taking his three sons.
13:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Now we did it a little differently.
13:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we treat ourselves.
13:21
[SPEAKER_04]: We go to a decent dinner or whatever.
13:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And we didn't have any five hundred dollar meals.
13:25
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, you know, it was nothing for us to go to a restaurant for launch or for dinner at with four people and spend, you know, I think one bill is like 130 one bills, like 180 or whatever.
13:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And we bought somebody's meal.
13:36
[SPEAKER_04]: So my point is,
13:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, think about that in reality, $6,000.
13:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, that just goes to show you how much money is being spent at the national.
13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And our camera guy, plus Editing, is going to be $2,500.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
13:49
[SPEAKER_04]: So, for us, it kind of, I started to feel from a business operational perspective this year.
13:56
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a losing proposition to go to the national.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Profit wise, it might be for some people, but like, for the experience I'd pay for just for it.
14:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, again, for us, it's about being like seeing our listeners and meeting with listeners, and we had an incredible opportunity to be a part of a documentary film team.
14:13
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll share more about that later as we had information, but we spent an hour with like a legit Hollywood documentary film crew that's doing some stuff for the hobby.
14:22
[SPEAKER_04]: stuff like that's incredible to see all of our connections that's incredible right like all of that stuff is fun but from a proposition of dollar over dollar if I'm making money and coming like you got to get after it to make the national profitable yeah and let's go ahead and jump right into the next subject of I think we talked about the prices at the like the show floor the prices and how the market was at the national
14:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, for sure.
14:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So here's the perfect example.
14:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And now first of all, we've had a lot of shade on Instagram lately.
14:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And I love it because it basically just shows that we're starting something up for people to talk about, which is fine.
14:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll take it personal.
14:59
[SPEAKER_04]: But there's been people and there's a comment the other day, we could do it on the screen, whereas you guys like you were the ones that created this market.
15:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So you were the ones that should deal with the pricing, right?
15:10
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, okay, so I created the market, little matte, and I created the market, right?
15:15
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think he's talking about like influencers in general, created the market.
15:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And I get the point to some degree because it's like, yes, influencers and hobby hype has caused more demand and so prices are rising.
15:28
[SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, there is a realistic understanding of
15:32
[SPEAKER_04]: comparable value and comparable sales and just unrealistic.
15:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And here's a perfect example.
15:39
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a card that we purchased at the national.
15:41
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're going to talk about value later.
15:43
[SPEAKER_04]: But this is a T206 Thai Cobb Redback.
15:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so your grandfather, your grandmother, my parents, they've been seeing what we've been doing in cards and he's a big baseball guy, he's like, hey, well, you know, your mom and I'll go in and we'll get a card with you guys.
15:59
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we decided about this card, kind of as a family card, you know, as an example.
16:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And this card, okay, does between $9 and $10,000 on comparable sales, okay?
16:10
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, you're dealing with literally a hundred-year-old card.
16:14
[SPEAKER_04]: We took that to a table who had the exact same card, the exact same grade, and the exact same eye appeal for that matter, in the case.
16:21
[SPEAKER_04]: He was asking 165 for that card.
16:24
[SPEAKER_04]: We showed him our card because he had a buying station and said, how much would you pay on this card?
16:30
[SPEAKER_04]: What did he say, Matthew?
16:31
[SPEAKER_01]: 7,500.
16:31
[SPEAKER_04]: 7,500 less than half of what the card was stickered for in his case.
16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say there were some buying stations that were paying fair, there were some that were paying strong, and then there were some that were just embarrassing themselves really.
16:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
16:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So, how much of the hobby is supported by dealers or vendors who know exactly what they're doing, and they're just literally taking advantage of people on their card values?
17:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's unbelievable, like I, I was, I want to do a video where I
17:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Give a card to my little brothers.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, as I still have some some people might like recognize me because I've been to a lot of shows, but I was going to give a card to them.
17:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was going to tell them to go up a card to construct $10,000 and just then say, hey, here's a cardboard you pay for it.
17:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did this a few years ago, dad, you remember that at the Shantilly show.
17:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
17:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a guy.
17:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a $700 card.
17:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a guy all from a $400 and everyone was clowning him in the comments.
17:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got wonder.
17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I, like, one of the best things I saw the whole weekend, I saw a guy walk up to a case.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: The case was filled with star Jordans, and I got walked to it and he said, I have something for you.
17:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a sealed 101 star bag.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And I saw it in my eyes just like lit up immediately.
17:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, where does God's asking $5?
17:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And the dealer could have told him,
17:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, this is worth 10 grand.
17:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you eight, but the dealer said, man, this is a really special piece.
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I appeal on the frost real good.
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: This is $150,000, which is a very fair valuation and I'm all respects in the dealer after he told them that after he was very honest with the guy.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: and he was subtle honest.
18:07
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't try to bite off the guy, even though he had multiple star bags.
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, honestly, what you want to do, I keep it sealed in the bag and get the bag graded.
18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was completely honest with the guy and I really had respect for that dealer.
18:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so let's talk about this.
18:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Like there's a difference between a card that we talk about all of time, a Jordan rookie,
18:26
[SPEAKER_04]: a Brady rookie even going into Bowman like a Bowman first auto or a Bowman refractor auto.
18:32
[SPEAKER_04]: We're talking about higher population cars with a bunch of cops.
18:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not talking about a rare 90s answer.
18:39
[SPEAKER_04]: If you have a rare 90s insert and there's 50 of them, they're definitely one.
18:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Dude, ask whatever you want to ask.
18:44
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
18:44
[SPEAKER_04]: If you've got a one, if you've got a high grade vintage, ask whatever you want to ask.
18:49
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I'm saying?
18:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, that's a different conversation.
18:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm talking about liquid cards that comp regularly.
18:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, we have to have some kind of standard of, like, respecting the hobby enough to not take advantage of people.
19:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And I get it.
19:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, here's a difference.
19:05
[SPEAKER_04]: If somebody comes to your table and they show you this card, so this card right here, what do we pay for that card?
19:10
[SPEAKER_04]: $7,000.
19:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
19:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Full sticker, right?
19:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Full sticker.
19:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Full sticker.
19:14
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's a difference if somebody has a card in their case and they're asking a value and you know it's value and you buy it at full sticker.
19:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Or if somebody walks up to your table and says, hey, I've got this card.
19:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking for $7,000 and you pay $7,000.
19:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Like to me, they have a number and you pay the number like that's fair, right?
19:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Now.
19:34
[SPEAKER_04]: If this was a 52-manel and a PSA-7, and somebody came up to me and said, hey, it's $7,000.
19:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I would say, listen, man, you need to know that that is way undervalued, right, for that car.
19:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you don't want to take advantage of people, but at the same time, if they have a number and it's relative to the car, you don't know.
19:51
[SPEAKER_04]: They might...
19:52
[SPEAKER_04]: been given that card.
19:54
[SPEAKER_04]: They might be into that card for next to nothing.
19:56
[SPEAKER_04]: They're just looking to get a fair value on it.
19:57
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's kind of a nuance there.
19:59
[SPEAKER_04]: But in general, it was really difficult to find value.
20:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And that brings us to this point of the conversation with so much corporate money needing inventory corporate money is paying the strongest right now for cards.
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to name the company, but he said he's cheating literally millions of dollars a month for these big companies, and he needs low end more than ever because the low end market, there's a lot more buyers of $100 cars than there is $10,000.
20:36
[SPEAKER_04]: their hundred two hundred three hundred all repacts and they need cards for that.
20:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Like so so we're in an interesting point in the hobby right now where there is just so much demand across the board and again people talk about a bubble and this and that kind of stuff we can get into that later but like the reality is is like the hype is there the intelligence and the market knowledge is there people kind of more now more than ever know what they have because of the comparable
21:01
[SPEAKER_04]: sales game with being able to use card ladder to use alt to use 130 point to use eBay.
21:07
[SPEAKER_04]: People know what they're doing.
21:09
[SPEAKER_04]: So the game has gotten super, super competitive and tight right now and it really just becomes about finding strategy and that leads us into our next idea of finding value.
21:20
[SPEAKER_04]: So Matthew let's talk a little bit like I've already showed here like this
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: $324 to buy that?
21:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so this card comes out of the set, which is the T206 set.
21:34
[SPEAKER_04]: One of the most recognizable sets all time, it's a pop under 400.
21:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I took, in fact, Rajah and I were talking about this and I said, hey, I said, pop 300, you've got the player in Ty Cobb, you've got the set, you've got the population.
21:48
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think this card is worth, right?
21:51
[SPEAKER_04]: And his immediate answer was in the 20K range, right?
21:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And the card does, you know, eight to nine thousand.
21:57
[SPEAKER_04]: So it feels like value compared to alternative assets.
22:02
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, like, for example, a Mickey Mantle 1953 in an SGC or whatever three that is a $5,6,000 card.
22:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but it's a pop 2500 total graded through whatever it is.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: No, there's like 8,000 total graded.
22:18
[SPEAKER_04]: 8,000 total graded.
22:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So you, this is where you got to get more.
22:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to put this in, in for record and someone can clip this.
22:26
[SPEAKER_01]: The star Jordan is the one of the greatest cards that's ever been produced.
22:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's because it's his true rookie.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's his first car that's ever been produced.
22:35
[SPEAKER_01]: The flare is like his third year car.
22:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just his first flare car that was produced.
22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think that the Flair Jordan is so iconic, but the star Jordan is so underpriced compared to it.
22:47
[SPEAKER_04]: What's the total population of graded copies of the star Jordan with?
22:51
[SPEAKER_01]: With PSA or total?
22:52
[SPEAKER_04]: With PSA.
22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: $654.
22:54
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's less than 1,000 of those.
22:56
[SPEAKER_04]: It would be similar to a card being numbered to 1,000, basically.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, and people don't realize just like how like is there six hundred I was having this conversation with Jeff Ding Corners and he's like Is there six hundred fifty four people that would want a star Jordan?
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
23:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
23:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's gonna sell like I think that card is if I think that card's the best investment card right
23:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, when you compare it to like a 52-manel, which is the other iconic card, I mean, from a population situation, there's less of the star Jordans, right?
23:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
23:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And Jordan, Jordan has probably more, actually, I would say he absolutely has more international demand than the commando.
23:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all Dave high speed car chase, say this in a comment section on what he said or someone said I think it like who has more money has spent on cards right now 40 year olds or 70 year olds probably 70 year olds that are retired and thereby Manel because Manel was there when these 40 year olds become 70 year olds and have money to spend on cards that Jordan's going to be the guy they're buying Jordan Griffey all those people.
23:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
23:56
[SPEAKER_04]: It's it's super interesting to think about value on on high end cards.
24:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're talking about a George Star Jordan.
24:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's not fair to a lot of our listeners on because that's a card that's not attainable for the everyday person.
24:07
[SPEAKER_04]: But you start getting into finding value.
24:10
[SPEAKER_04]: And you know where I think great value is in the hobby right now.
24:13
[SPEAKER_04]: There's great value in those
24:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they're like, which cards you got to get and yeah, there's so many cards in that that bulking, but what I'm saying is is repackers need that it's it's viable for most of the people when you get into showhays or Jordan's or whatever and that kind of range and you can study population counts and you can kind of look at grades and stuff.
24:36
[SPEAKER_04]: you can find value there.
24:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's what's really driving this man.
24:39
[SPEAKER_04]: You've got kids like your brothers who went to the national and each of them made a couple grand, you know what I mean?
24:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Just finding value in cards.
24:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And like that is super, super encouraging.
24:49
[SPEAKER_04]: So kind of continuing down this list, Matthew, a finding value.
24:52
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is when we picked up here.
24:54
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the show hay batting SSP from tops.
24:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm going to give everyone the run down on that card.
25:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't know what that card is, I don't blame me because you never see that card.
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, that was the only one I saw on the show floor.
25:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're going to see in our video that comes out a few weeks.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: My jaw drops as soon as I saw that card.
25:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, what did we pay on this card?
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: $9,500.
25:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Full sticker, right?
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Full sticker.
25:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely full sticker.
25:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, and the guy wouldn't budge.
25:22
[SPEAKER_01]: No, because he knew what he had.
25:23
[SPEAKER_04]: They don't blend.
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't blend them at all.
25:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I, like, here's my strategy when I go into buying the card.
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, that card was stickered at $9,500.
25:32
[SPEAKER_01]: The last comp was actually last week for $9,500.
25:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Before that, the last comp was $7,000 back in February.
25:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if you're not familiar with Showcase Market, Showcase Market has double sense February.
25:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And on that card, the last comp was a buy it now at 9,500.
25:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I figured that the 9,500 seemed kind of a low for a buy it now.
25:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And the cards should be doubled since February.
25:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's probably 11 to 12,000 dollar card.
25:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe higher, but it's not really a card I'm looking to get rid of.
25:59
[SPEAKER_04]: So the point on that card is that the population on it is what 170 of it.
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and yeah, it was like two hundred two hundred four two hundred four.
26:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So you've got a pop two hundred show hey rookie on the SSP and I think there's value in the SSPs There are people that would argue they don't like the SSP just because all it is is an image variation But there are so many show hey rookies out there like the Marks go buy your pop 5,000 boom and crumb 10
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, you're the most overpriced.
26:26
[SPEAKER_01]: He show is one of the greatest players of all time.
26:28
[SPEAKER_01]: The Bum and Croutham show hey 10 is the most overpriced card in the hobby.
26:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got flames for thin little bronze James top's chrome was overpriced and yes it's up because he got traded, but I just don't see value in it.
26:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's no vet like I'd rather go buy a LeBron James auto or a numbered or something else than a top's chrome base PSA 10.
26:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we had this conversation with Brent Wire, Wiresports, and Brent's been on deep value investor, and he was talking about, you know, that show, hey, batting, chrome, the Brady Bowman, even the star-jored, they're ultimately base cards.
27:00
[SPEAKER_04]: They're base cards.
27:01
[SPEAKER_04]: They are of iconic players, and they are the, but they're ultimately base cards.
27:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And so the value in the, the hobby is not buying the base cards.
27:09
[SPEAKER_04]: It's buying the cards with rarity, with scarcity that you just don't see.
27:16
[SPEAKER_04]: a lot of people don't know about some of these cards so they don't have as much sex appeal or I appeal because they're not transacting that quickly and so I was at a dealer table true story and he's got some stuff in the case and whatever and I said do you have the whatever the cow ripkin in the
27:34
[SPEAKER_04]: essential credentials or whatever, he goes, oh no, no, that's back here with the fun stuff.
27:40
[SPEAKER_04]: And he pulls a box out from behind his case with some crazy, cool, rare stuff.
27:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And it just goes to show you as so many of these dealers and so many of the people in the hobby us included, we transact these highly liquid cards that have that kind of market ability to them to ultimately go and buy the stuff that you never see.
28:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
28:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and it's funny talking about, you know, with the stuff behind the case, because it's crazy how many dealers have the best stuff, you know, behind the case.
28:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you see one of those cards, it's a behind the case card.
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are the cards that you want to buy 100%.
28:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And another thing is like, no, we'll talk about it a little bit about kind of the baseball market at the national, but, you know, I did make a video saying how it would really tough to buy and it was really tough to buy.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also had very high expectations on the national.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: The National has gotten better for me every single year.
28:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And something that I do on the show floor to, you know, help myself and how I've made a lot of money flipping on the show floor is I'll find out what's hot.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll find out what the re-packers are buying and I'll go and I'll buy all of that on the show floor.
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So last year, Chef Curry was the hottest name on show floor.
28:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So I went around and I bought four curry caboons.
28:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I ended up literally doubling my money on those because you know what's hot, you know, people need them this year Kobe Bryant was really hot on the show floor and the bronze James was really hot on the show floor because these re-packers need goat cards right now because goat cards are what what are what are moving.
29:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's it's really interesting when you start to see the market trends and it goes back to what I just said is a smart thing in the hobby is to find out what everybody's buying and jump in the water and swim around and just be in and be out and move quickly on you got to stay fast with it and then go buy the stuff that's super super rare so the final thing of finding value and talk about rarity and scarcity this was our I can't think's favorite pick up of the show.
29:38
[SPEAKER_04]: this is the big men on court die-cut Michael Jordan insert what's the total population on that Matthew?
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was 60 something around that so again you have a very cool iconic Jordan and a red jersey but it's less than 300 with PSA and something I'd like to just care about that card is something I told you I wanted to talk about before this show about how if there's a direct comp on the card but there's other graded sales or there's other you know parallel sales
30:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So that card had a direct comp for $5,700, but a BGS-8, so for $6,800, PSX-7, it's probably just as good as a BGS-8.
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So, me looking at it, I paid the guy $5,300 on it, which I thought was a really good deal.
30:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, even off the $57, I paid like $93,94, but I think it's worth closer to $7,8 because of the BGS-8, so.
30:26
[SPEAKER_01]: A product example in Bowman for you Bowman listeners is Caleb Bonamer.
30:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So Caleb Bonamer true orange got listed on eBay for 500 bucks.
30:35
[SPEAKER_01]: The last orange comp was 500, but I went and looked at other sales.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't focus on the one on sale.
30:40
[SPEAKER_01]: A gold had just sold for 600 and it weren't just normally double gold.
30:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So I knew that and I said, okay, it's probably 1200 on a card and I bought it and I ended up moving it for like 2,500.
30:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
30:50
[SPEAKER_04]: So again, part of the strategy to our listeners is, is when you really get nuanced in this, is make sure you're not getting stuck on the comp with the grade, look at other grades, look at alternative grades, and even look at alternative players.
31:04
[SPEAKER_04]: One of the things when you're playing like the the 90s insert gain, and we look at Cal Ripkin a lot, like Cal Ripkin is not relatable to a Kingriffy junior.
31:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Cal Ripkin would be more relatable to like Tony Gwyn, you know,
31:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
31:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And then Derek Geter's probably above that.
31:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So you start to understand value by by relating it to other players and their collectability and that's where you can kind of get away with understanding that hey, man, this card is really value at this number.
31:35
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like I have the Ripken Rose Zero PSA none.
31:38
[SPEAKER_04]: There are five graded with PSA.
31:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I had one on the table when I showed Brent and Raj in those guys and they had a gold medal in Randy Moss, right?
31:48
[SPEAKER_04]: 24k gold number to 24 okay the rippkins number to a hundred.
31:54
[SPEAKER_04]: It's Randy Moss's cow rippkin.
31:55
[SPEAKER_04]: They're not comparable but the Randy Moss was doing 2530k something like that they said and the cow rippkin was doing 1500.
32:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I said I'm not trying to say that the rippkins more valuable than the thing but I'm saying if the moss is justifiable at 2530k the rippkin shouldn't be 1500.
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you may have a good point about how the ripkins out of a hundred, but there's only five graded.
32:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't look at what the card's numbered out of because how many are just stuffed in collections?
32:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, or they because of that card, people didn't really know what it was or what you know I'm saying.
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I hate to be given out my secrets, but I'm going to my favorite card of all time produced is the 2009 top Steph Curry Refractor.
32:36
[SPEAKER_01]: That's been my grail since day one.
32:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
32:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately, it's 5x in price since I first wanted it, which sucks.
32:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But basically, it's out of 500.
32:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's still super rare.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: There's 200 that have been graded and I know multiple that have been cracked and crossed.
32:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So I bet there's less than 150, I bet there's around 150 copies in the world of that corner.
32:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's one of the rare, like it's so rare
33:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
33:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, knowing these types of things are where you kind of get to be able to find that he's so going back to when you walk through the shuffle or the national and you see cases that are full of just, you know, star, I mean, not star Jordans, but Jordans or 53 mannels or 56 mannels or 33 gounties or whatever it is.
33:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're stickered so far over comp.
33:23
[SPEAKER_04]: When you know this, you just understand that those aren't buys at that number.
33:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And you don't chase them because of the scarcity.
33:31
[SPEAKER_04]: However, when you walk around the show floor and you see this card, boom, buy it.
33:36
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
33:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I think another thing that I noticed for this year is at local shows at regional shows dealers will have a lot of room.
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a card list at 5k.
33:45
[SPEAKER_01]: You can offer on your 4, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2,
34:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, dealers had barely any room and they were kind of putting their best sticker on that which our respect for the dealers because they'd make easier for that for the people to kind of like feel out like, you know, there's like a true color.
34:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
34:20
[SPEAKER_04]: So all right, man, let's move on here and let's talk a little bit about the grading situation right now.
34:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I say one more thing about the dealers and dealers are having to pay in the range of if they're buying it directly from the national about $800 for a table?
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: There were some dealers that I didn't see $800 of value in their case, and I know a boy arm like he thought it was cool, but like I saw like a peep person selling baseball gloves at the national.
34:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't know, I, and then, especially in the ventures, the vintage side of the room, those people been there since 1980, and they've had the same cards since 1980.
34:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's thicker to high.
34:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, again, the national has transcended, right?
35:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, so when the national began in the 80s, it was basically a small pool of guys, like, you know, most flea market type stuff, where they're just getting together for the national, and it's interesting because there's still this constituency of guys at the national,
35:16
[SPEAKER_04]: T206 is it's the 33 Gowdys it's the 52 like those cards have been around and they've not transcended into this modern sports thing So it's almost like you have two like wildly different sides of this hobby and it is it's amazing That you can kind of like play in both spheres, you know, and the same rules don't apply
35:38
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
35:39
[SPEAKER_04]: These vintage dealers that have some of this stuff, they're like, come and get it, man.
35:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know what I mean?
35:44
[SPEAKER_04]: This is my number coming, get it.
35:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Or I don't want to sell it.
35:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I just want to show it to you.
35:47
[SPEAKER_04]: I joke with somebody that the nationals should have been called the National Sports Card Museum.
35:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Because there's so many of these cards that are just out there for show, almost as in a museum type thing, which is fine.
35:59
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
36:00
[SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, the hobby right now is being fueled by dads and sons and by young guys that are looking for alternative income streams and they're playing the game of buying and selling sports cards.
36:15
[SPEAKER_04]: You can like it, you can hate it.
36:17
[SPEAKER_04]: is just what it is.
36:18
[SPEAKER_04]: These are kids that grew up in the social media culture.
36:22
[SPEAKER_04]: They've watched influencers their whole life.
36:24
[SPEAKER_04]: They want to be an influencer.
36:26
[SPEAKER_04]: They're trying to hustle and pursue their passion and I applaud them.
36:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I saw one content creator online who was basically
36:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, bro, I had a so counterintuitive.
36:40
[SPEAKER_04]: You make your entire living by creating content around this hobby and you're trashing people for doing the same thing.
36:47
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, that's kind of double-minded in my mind.
36:50
[SPEAKER_04]: So anyway, all of that said, man, I want to lead into the closing conversation today on the episode and talk about grading.
36:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk about grading at the national.
36:59
[SPEAKER_04]: What was really interesting is the demand for PSA is much as people are pissed off at PSA, the demand is like getting all the time high.
37:05
[SPEAKER_04]: They shut off shows the missions on Wednesday.
37:09
[SPEAKER_04]: They shut off same day on Thursday, per month, per memory.
37:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I could be wrong on that, maybe a day off or whatever.
37:15
[SPEAKER_04]: We submitted a very big card.
37:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
37:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was same day.
37:20
[SPEAKER_04]: We submitted it on Thursday.
37:22
[SPEAKER_04]: For our service.
37:23
[SPEAKER_04]: For our service.
37:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, how to pay $1,200?
37:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep, did not get it back before we left the show for her.
37:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I will say this Saturday at night.
37:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep, it hit Saturday night as we were driving home.
37:34
[SPEAKER_04]: I will say this though.
37:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I was in the line at PSA trying to get some answers on it.
37:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And I got to give a shout out to my guy, Alex, because Alex, he said, how can help you bro?
37:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And he kind of looked at me and he said, oh, what's up, man?
37:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, hey, how are you?
37:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And he goes, man, I got to tell you, I listen to every episode of podcast, you're my guys.
37:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, oh, dude, I'm gonna come across the counter, give you a big old Southern hug, man.
37:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much.
37:57
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like, I appreciate y'all.
37:58
[SPEAKER_04]: And we talked, you know, and listen, there's two levels, there's people that work at PSA that are doing their job, whether their job is service, whether their job is grading, whether their job is processed, whatever, they're doing their job.
38:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you have leadership at PSA.
38:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
38:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And I will tell you right now that this this dude was just salt to the earth, man, did everything possible in his power to get me answers that I needed to help me, whatever.
38:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And he had been probably taking heat from so many people over the weekend.
38:24
[SPEAKER_04]: But there is a leadership issue at PSA.
38:27
[SPEAKER_04]: If you have the largest car show in the world and you cannot deliver on your price point.
38:33
[SPEAKER_04]: When your price point is already heads and shoulders above what the standard price point is.
38:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Like what was the lowest fee that you could pay to grade a card on side of the national?
38:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, I think it was $2.99 and that was only on Wednesday.
38:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
38:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's crazy.
38:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Now you're paying for expedited your paying for on, but it defeats the entire purpose.
38:52
[SPEAKER_04]: What I would say is like, they've got to figure out a system where people have to get a number or they have to only sell a certain number of slots.
39:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Like if you're not going to have enough staff,
39:02
[SPEAKER_04]: to service the orders that you get.
39:05
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, whatever you did last year, planned for 50% higher and come strong this year.
39:10
[SPEAKER_04]: I had a guy that was in front of me and he was so upset dude, so upset.
39:14
[SPEAKER_04]: He could be one of our listeners, maybe not, I don't know.
39:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he was so mad Matthew and he was cursing up a storm and all this kind of stuff and I turned around and I said, hey man, I'm sports car CEO podcast and he was like, are you filming me?
39:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, bro, I'm not filming you.
39:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I was just talking to you as like a human being.
39:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, we talk about this on the podcast,
39:33
[SPEAKER_04]: He was like this company and he was like I fat a match.
39:37
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I was like whoa like he was so mad I was like that's threat of ours and like we're on another level like of over to just woo You know, I hear you
39:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a flashback to the gabions I was read by no, it's so funny, but here's the thing we are still paying PSA to grant our cards as much as you've seen all the people boycott PSA boycott PSA I mean, you know that you know the guy and and bowling has they made most amazing clothes ever.
40:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he always he said love me or hate me still watch.
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all you could do.
40:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah
40:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's exactly what PSA is like love, love, love, or hate PSA, you're still going to submit.
40:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that the guy that said, who do you think you are?
40:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I am, that should be PSA slogan.
40:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Who do you think you are?
40:26
[SPEAKER_04]: I am.
40:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, but that's like, that guy's like, Conning.
40:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, that's what PSA does.
40:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, love me or hate me, you're still going to submit cards at the end of the day.
40:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if like Gary talked about it on the last podcast, the difference between
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: numbers and numbers ahead.
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not.
40:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's crazy.
40:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Now again, BGS was tough on site for grading from what I heard as well.
40:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I heard like it was tough.
40:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We had generous, we had a couple bad grades, but overall generous PSA grades.
40:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we had a couple of nice wins on one of our cobees and nice one on our Jordan and a nice one on one of our LeBron's, but our Tiger Woods got slaughtered and that was just that was tough.
41:06
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, you play the game.
41:07
[SPEAKER_04]: It is a game at the end of the day.
41:09
[SPEAKER_04]: You have to recognize what you're playing.
41:11
[SPEAKER_04]: You just have to work it into your business costs and your operational costs to make it make sense.
41:15
[SPEAKER_04]: But I will say that what Mike Bakers doing with NBA,
41:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I'll say this.
41:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I heard Mike Baker shut off all all submissions like all like four hour submissions on Thursday.
41:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they had to do all take home submissions because of how much the line for NBA was insane.
41:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And how many NBA diamonds I saw on the show floor was like more than ever.
41:38
[SPEAKER_04]: can understand from the standpoint.
41:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Now NBA, this is going to be an entirely different episode.
41:43
[SPEAKER_04]: But NBA is emerging because people are dissatisfied with PSA and they're looking for alternative ways to give subjective value to their cards.
41:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that's the bottom one.
41:53
[SPEAKER_04]: because when you have a 1999 graded card and a 2000 and 24 graded card and they're both the PSA eight, I can promise you with everything in me the the 2024 PSA eight is going to be a better card.
42:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you don't believe that,
42:10
[SPEAKER_04]: that, then I'm sorry, you probably should watch another podcast.
42:14
[SPEAKER_04]: But that being said, you have to have some level of subjectivity to a standard of grading that's been in place for 30 years.
42:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And so MBA coming on the scene is really shaken things up, and I think the market and collectors are really taking to it.
42:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And so there's opportunity there for those who are interested, I really, really believe that.
42:33
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, I think there's probably PSA Nines that are better than some copies of Tins.
42:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And so NBA gives some validity to that when you can gold diamond a card, and they're basically saying, hey, based on our opinion, this card is undergraded for the card.
42:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And what NBA started doing in the NBA, I'm done this since, and I made it up last year.
42:53
[SPEAKER_01]: They started grading cards themselves.
42:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's just say you have a card and a BGS9.
42:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And NBA says, this is the gold diamond.
43:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great copy.
43:01
[SPEAKER_01]: NBA will crack it out of the BGS9 for you and put it in their own nine and a half so Ab because they believe that it's a really a nine and a half.
43:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have a timer woods.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a PSA 9 auto 10.
43:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We could give it NBA and it could get an NBA 925 auto 10.
43:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no.
43:17
[SPEAKER_01]: like you know because NBA doing crosstovers now.
43:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
43:21
[SPEAKER_04]: It's somebody better pull the trigger on this grading thing or NBA is going to run away with it because the hobbies flooding there right now because of the disc content with PSA.
43:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And so again, PSA from a business ops standpoint from a leadership standpoint,
43:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know that they can do anything because the amount of people that want to get carged graded right now is just to the moon when you look at submissions, but with right now cutting off low value orders, I don't know what's going to come of it.
43:46
[SPEAKER_04]: We could talk about it forever on here, but we want to honor our time schedule.
43:49
[SPEAKER_04]: So, the final little segment of the podcast today, Matthew, big, big news in the baseball market.
43:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Baseball has kind of been our bread and butter.
43:57
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think about these trades, man?
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the best picture I'm baseball just traded to the best team in baseball, a lot out is inevitable now, like it's going to happen and I don't know if this is going to be bad for the baseball market or good for the baseball market.
44:15
[SPEAKER_01]: because guess what, MLB is not going to be playing, minor leagues are going to be playing.
44:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So you might see these prospects.
44:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So people that are destroying MLB fans and are not watching their team, they're going to start paying attention to minor leagues.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And if, you know, these guys start popping off, they're going to start buying cards.
44:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really think that could, you know, help some of the prospects value.
44:35
[SPEAKER_04]: could be could be a good hot take.
44:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I will say this is, you know, the, the, the, the, tarick scooble trade to the Dodgers for Zire Hope and the other, you know, prospect, that's wild.
44:46
[SPEAKER_04]: It reminds me.
44:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how a GM like does that.
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Zire Hope's a good prospect in all, but like, at least it's a roadout or tids or de Paula or Quintero or a meal morale list.
44:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You literally let them keep five of their literally best
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Literally like he's a three time style young winner.
45:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I know in the car This is little Matt's approval of that trade You don't understand how Matt I was in the car when I heard about that I was so like in my dad's Started playing the Star Wars dark side theme song of when the Dodgers because they're the They're literally like they're the super team they're exactly
45:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
45:25
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'd be, but again, man, like, Zire Hope, I actually people were asking me because we had the hope read.
45:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I actually, I love the opportunity for hope because they want to using.
45:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think they could use him in the outfield.
45:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And with McGonagall and Turkelson and Max Clark or whatever, like, there's some young talent.
45:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think it's good for Zire Hope.
45:44
[SPEAKER_04]: He has a pathway now.
45:45
[SPEAKER_04]: sparks to ball it.
45:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, he is.
45:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I think Hope has a pathway now.
45:50
[SPEAKER_04]: He's in, you know, Detroit and not LA.
45:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's a big deal.
45:55
[SPEAKER_04]: But he was bottlenecked.
45:56
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, and I still think, you know, Sarota and DePaul and his good as those guys are, they're still a bottleneck in LA too.
46:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're going to have to figure that out.
46:03
[SPEAKER_04]: So I actually like it for Zire Hope.
46:05
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just the interesting that it got away with.
46:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And then Adley Rushman to the Red Sox.
46:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, that's big.
46:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Yankees really needed the catcher, but the Yankees weren't willing to give up, kill B or Carlos, Lugrange or whatever his name is.
46:18
[SPEAKER_04]: You know who that trade is big for?
46:20
[SPEAKER_04]: No, you're right.
46:21
[SPEAKER_04]: That trade is big for one, Semwell, Bassayo.
46:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it shows the Orioles' confidence in Bassayo as being their guy.
46:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And again, I haven't really done a deep dive on a stats.
46:34
[SPEAKER_04]: We loved his bat coming out.
46:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I still think he's done fairly well.
46:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Tons of power.
46:38
[SPEAKER_04]: him being the everyday catcher though.
46:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know how that's going to look, but I think his pathways a lot more clear now.
46:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know who won, let's say it was cheap.
46:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he's super cheap right now.
46:48
[SPEAKER_04]: So so I'm saying is when these trades happen, you know who ate on this trade thing, scuba collectors.
46:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Dude, his stuff going to Dodgers now, like his cards.
46:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, like, dude, like this Yamamoto's cards do insane money.
47:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, hit Bowman Crum Autos, like literally do like, Dude, I have one that was like $300 and now it's like nine grand.
47:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's crazy.
47:10
[SPEAKER_04]: It's nice.
47:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think to the listeners, there's a lot we could talk about with the trade stuff, but trades always offer an opportunity for value in cards.
47:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Or if you have a guy, it might be time to kind of move on, you know what I mean?
47:24
[SPEAKER_04]: And so again, just think through that as you kind of assess it or whatever, a lot more people.
47:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at the National there wasn't much Bowman and I saw the new few Bowman guys and they said, oh, we're not selling that much, but like now's a great time to buy Bowman.
47:38
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys you're convicted on like now's a great time to buy.
47:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm going to say this to our listeners because we have so many of them and we were known early on as a baseball and Bowman specific podcast.
47:48
[SPEAKER_04]: We kind of branched out now and doing some different stuff.
47:50
[SPEAKER_04]: But a lot of the guys who are guys, man, we've been in the game with you guys for a while.
47:54
[SPEAKER_04]: All of us, we consider you friends.
47:56
[SPEAKER_04]: They're like,
47:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, why are you out of bumming?
47:59
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not out of bumming.
48:00
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not out of bumming.
48:01
[SPEAKER_04]: All we're just strategically moving capital into different areas of the market while Bowman is figuring itself out during the kind of midseason low.
48:11
[SPEAKER_04]: There's still opportunity on Bowman.
48:13
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just a matter of being smart about it.
48:15
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're not putting all of our eggs in the Bowman basket.
48:17
[SPEAKER_04]: We're kind of playing the crap's table, the roulette table, the blackjack table.
48:23
[SPEAKER_04]: We're kind of playing all of these different games.
48:27
[SPEAKER_04]: My dad played the crap stable as national the rivers casino and the crap stable played him the first day did the first day didn't yeah I did I have it I have a soft spot I'll mention I have a soft spot I live in North Carolina we don't have casinos but I have a soft spot for the crap stable but anyway that said to our listener like we're not out on booming it's just a matter of kind of like waiting through the different markets right now and I think you're smart to do that but to Matthew's point I do think there's some opportunity
48:54
[SPEAKER_04]: But all that being said, you know, we're going to keep the episode and cut it here more to come.
48:59
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to be kind of dabbing more into some baseball content.
49:02
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got some guests lined up.
49:03
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to keep coming at you guys with some stuff.
49:05
[SPEAKER_04]: But let us know what you want to hear.
49:07
[SPEAKER_04]: If you have any questions for me for a little mad or for Bubba or Curn, 88 pod CEOs, hit us up on Instagram.
49:13
[SPEAKER_04]: She just some measure we'd love to do that and chat with you guys.
49:16
[SPEAKER_04]: But I can't say enough from the bottom of my heart.
49:19
[SPEAKER_04]: I love doing this podcast.
49:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And I especially love being able to do it here recently with my son.
49:24
[SPEAKER_04]: We both love the hobby.
49:26
[SPEAKER_04]: We want to be a support structure for the hobby, like I said on an Instagram Rio.
49:29
[SPEAKER_04]: We want to do this right.
49:30
[SPEAKER_04]: We want everybody to win, you know, stay out of the mix with all the drama and all the backbiting or whatever and just have a good time.
49:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Listen, you have to agree with everything we say.
49:39
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't have to, and I don't have to agree with everything you say.
49:41
[SPEAKER_04]: But we're going to have deep respect, man, and love for the hobby.
49:44
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to keep pushing that envelope forward.
49:46
[SPEAKER_04]: So Matthew, any closing thoughts on today's episode?
49:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Shoot the outro.
49:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Shoot the outro.
49:50
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, buddy.
49:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Happy birthday again, man.
49:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Peace.